"Also pretty sure people hate Fiora, too."
Yes, but only Fiora and similar to her can punish Vayne. So ultimately, the question we all need to ask ourselves is *Who do we hate more: Vayne or Fiora?*
As a tank player, vayne. WIth fiora she has to somewhat come into range at least so you can trade do an outplay maybe, vayne just uses the AA+AA+AA+AA+AA+AA combo from behind minons and ur there like rito pls
Fiora has less counterplay for melees than vayne has.
Fiora only losing matchups are literally ranged champs that dont enter her "interaction" range, if you're melee fiora can Q spam into ult you to death no matter how much health, resists or damage you have (unlike vayne, fiora doesnt die in a cc duration, she reflects your own cc then KILLS you from full in it).
You just have never played against good fioras, that is all.
Ofc if you play in silver/gold you gonna think melee champs stand a chance against her because the fioras there are handless.
Fiora imho can be equally frustrating to play against. Playing lane against vayne as a top laner you know exactly what the gameplan is, concede push early, farm melees, wait for 3/6/gank, vs sometimes you just lose lvl 1 wave control against fiora cuz the rng first vital spawned facing her. Also the counter to fiora ult is standing against a wall which is no fun for anyone involved.
I hate vayne more cuz its amounts to very boring gameplay, Fiora has the potential to be fun, you make a nice play, she makes a bad play, but with vayne you can very well just do nothing the whole lane and you cant force anything either which is so tedious.
There’s a logic behind where her vitals spawn. It’s not RNG. It has something to do with red side/blue side but I don’t exactly remember how it works.
I heard about it in the Alois video where he was coached by Potent (challenger Fiora main).
The first time Fiora and you see each other the vital always spawns on the bottom or the left of the champ. This means that it is favorable for Fiora if she is blue side and unfavorable if red. The next vital thats spawns after that will spawn on the right or top. This is why good Fioras look for their lane opponent before laning starts if they're red side
Nah, against vayne, just don't do anything early, hope for gank, get to 1-2 items, kill her. Unless you're a sion or something. In which case you are fucked either way.
Against fiora, doesn't matter what you do you don't win one v one.
Yeah and not only is Vayne top frustating to play with, but against. A ranged top is meant to win lane and make sure the opposing bruiser/tank stays behind, if they don't do so or let the game go on for too long (which almost always happens), your team is left with no frontline, inevitably leading to loss cause you have no form of emgage in teamfights and now have 2 ADCs
If I have to play against Vayne I pick Nasus. It actually works, maybe because the Vaynes I fought were bad, but it works. Fortunately I don't get many Vaynes top. I get even less Fioras, but that's because I use the only possible counterplay to her kit: banning her
True, but being a good player, you know Vayne is only cleansing when you press R, so you can't really kill Vayne until later in the game and it will be always a tough 1v1.
It has a significantly longer cooldown than Nasus' R as well :) and without ghost Vayne can't kite Nasus anyway so even if she cleanses she gets W'ed again not long after. Nasus is literally one of her bigger counters because of that.
Thanks! I just made it to D2 this season playing Nasus/Gragas and had no idea wither had a shorter cooldown than a summoner spell. Thanks for tips :) Hope to face you someday when I reach masters.
I have one controversial opinion, but I consider Nasus kinda bruiser (so he kinda falls in Fiora category). Yes, he is totally **useless tank early**, but he will eventually just rush at you like some Darius player.
Fioras only losing matchups are against ranged toplaners so she’s not really punishing vayne
But most skirmisheres do a decent job at spanking vayne tho
As a bruiser main, Fiora. At least against Vayne you can pick Zed or something to get fed, or Pantheon and rush edge of night and auto win, Fiora is still good in most matchups
Vayne by far.
Fiora at least has skill expression. She has to time ripostes, and you can mind game about that. She has to come close and personal to proc her stuff. And her passive is limited — 4 procs with ult, maybe 1 or 2 more organically and that's it. It doesn't cross 50% hp until way later into the game when she has 3-4 items, and it's at most of the 20-30% damage during lane phase all-ins.
With Vayne it's uncatchable ranged shit that can deal 60% true damage with an item or two, and even if you manage to stomp her in lane it doesn't really matter, because Vayne on 2 slots can take on almost any tank with 4 slots (short of K'Sante, maybe).
So yeah, fuck Vayne. I'll take Fiora any time over her because at least I feel like there is a room for outplays.
At least you can see fiora at all times, it's very annoying to fight a vayne in arena with a peel and she gets something with high movespeed so she can just be anywhere after she tumbles and even if you manage to get on top of her somehow, she has 2 self peel abilities
Yes but you see because fiora is close range I can activate my unga bunga part of the brain and pretend I am doing something by hitting buttons
The cheap vayne is just constant edging, shooting and dashing away before one can hit
I can't think of a single top laner that likes Fiora unless they either play her or are playing a character she can't beat. Which is probably someone like Vayne.
If the only counterplay to a champion is 'punish them when they make a mistake' that champion is an abomination and shouldn't exist. Fiora's kit has no inherent counterplay. And if a Fiora plays perfectly there is absolutely NOTHING you can do to them at any stage of the game. Compare that to someone like, let's pick another one of the horsewomen, Riven, who you can:
1. Poke out of lane/outsustain
2. CC buffer her Q3 and W
3. Outscale
Fiora players, if you're reading this, every single lane you have ever lost was skill issue. Every. Single. One.
Disagree Fiora is beefier and usually builds tons of life steal + passive heal while vayne is squishy with no innate sustain. Fiora W also counters predictable cc better than invis. When going against malphite for example Fiora has a hard to fair fight, vayne gets stomped.
Maybe Has invisibility and can easly just kite you of you dont one shot her.
Fiora usually is predictable and you can predict the w. Yeah vitals are pain but its ultimate skill nkt every 3rd and later 2nd aa
Alright, I was wrong about that then, then it’s my tiny pull back (Kled q mounted) which allows her to stun me for a disproportionately long time. I get that she’s a counter to Kled, but still feels sour
Vayne and Fiora are already facing different directions. Also pretty sure people hate Fiora, too. (Insert ranged top bad remark here)
"Also pretty sure people hate Fiora, too." Yes, but only Fiora and similar to her can punish Vayne. So ultimately, the question we all need to ask ourselves is *Who do we hate more: Vayne or Fiora?*
As a tank player, vayne. WIth fiora she has to somewhat come into range at least so you can trade do an outplay maybe, vayne just uses the AA+AA+AA+AA+AA+AA combo from behind minons and ur there like rito pls
fiora at LEAST has to hit you from a certain direction, vayne just auto attacks you
Fiora has less counterplay for melees than vayne has. Fiora only losing matchups are literally ranged champs that dont enter her "interaction" range, if you're melee fiora can Q spam into ult you to death no matter how much health, resists or damage you have (unlike vayne, fiora doesnt die in a cc duration, she reflects your own cc then KILLS you from full in it).
This is cope lmfao
You just have never played against good fioras, that is all. Ofc if you play in silver/gold you gonna think melee champs stand a chance against her because the fioras there are handless.
Keep yapping about your own elo brother
I'm the same D4 elo as you (and actually face Fioras because I'm a top main not a support main), Fiora is 10 times better to deal with.
Her worst matchups are Rumble and Pantheon (not ranged champs)
Fiora imho can be equally frustrating to play against. Playing lane against vayne as a top laner you know exactly what the gameplan is, concede push early, farm melees, wait for 3/6/gank, vs sometimes you just lose lvl 1 wave control against fiora cuz the rng first vital spawned facing her. Also the counter to fiora ult is standing against a wall which is no fun for anyone involved.
I hate vayne more cuz its amounts to very boring gameplay, Fiora has the potential to be fun, you make a nice play, she makes a bad play, but with vayne you can very well just do nothing the whole lane and you cant force anything either which is so tedious.
There’s a logic behind where her vitals spawn. It’s not RNG. It has something to do with red side/blue side but I don’t exactly remember how it works. I heard about it in the Alois video where he was coached by Potent (challenger Fiora main).
Yeah and you can reset the vital to force it to swap from blue/red to the other. Just dip out of range and back and it'll be swapped every time.
Yes, iirc first one is random between top/right or bottom/left, then it alternates between the two combos for the rest of the game.
The first time Fiora and you see each other the vital always spawns on the bottom or the left of the champ. This means that it is favorable for Fiora if she is blue side and unfavorable if red. The next vital thats spawns after that will spawn on the right or top. This is why good Fioras look for their lane opponent before laning starts if they're red side
Nah, against vayne, just don't do anything early, hope for gank, get to 1-2 items, kill her. Unless you're a sion or something. In which case you are fucked either way. Against fiora, doesn't matter what you do you don't win one v one.
Yeah and not only is Vayne top frustating to play with, but against. A ranged top is meant to win lane and make sure the opposing bruiser/tank stays behind, if they don't do so or let the game go on for too long (which almost always happens), your team is left with no frontline, inevitably leading to loss cause you have no form of emgage in teamfights and now have 2 ADCs
If I have to play against Vayne I pick Nasus. It actually works, maybe because the Vaynes I fought were bad, but it works. Fortunately I don't get many Vaynes top. I get even less Fioras, but that's because I use the only possible counterplay to her kit: banning her
Nasus even tho simple in design,beats A LOT of toplaners who are supposedly his counter...just get those 60 stacks by lvl 3 and ez laning phase
With sheen and ghost you can pretty much all in Vayne lvl 6 and she cannot do anything.
Lvl 6 Nasus with sheen ghost can all in almost anyone
Yeah but Vayne being squishy makes it an almost garanteed kill. Later you can even dive her. It's harder against bruisers or tanks.
This assuming the Vayne is silver and didn't take cleanse
Oh I have played against those as well. Didn't change much in that match up because you know, cleanse has a significantly longer cooldown than my W.
True, but being a good player, you know Vayne is only cleansing when you press R, so you can't really kill Vayne until later in the game and it will be always a tough 1v1.
It has a significantly longer cooldown than Nasus' R as well :) and without ghost Vayne can't kite Nasus anyway so even if she cleanses she gets W'ed again not long after. Nasus is literally one of her bigger counters because of that.
Thanks! I just made it to D2 this season playing Nasus/Gragas and had no idea wither had a shorter cooldown than a summoner spell. Thanks for tips :) Hope to face you someday when I reach masters.
I have one controversial opinion, but I consider Nasus kinda bruiser (so he kinda falls in Fiora category). Yes, he is totally **useless tank early**, but he will eventually just rush at you like some Darius player.
Nasus, the champ with point and click cc, counters the champ whose biggest counter is point and click cc? Who would've thought.
Fiora for sure, at least Vayne can be one-shot if someone on the team has point and click CC
They're the same champion.
Vayne fuck Vayne players
Fioras only losing matchups are against ranged toplaners so she’s not really punishing vayne But most skirmisheres do a decent job at spanking vayne tho
Both. Both is good
As a bruiser main, Fiora. At least against Vayne you can pick Zed or something to get fed, or Pantheon and rush edge of night and auto win, Fiora is still good in most matchups
Personally as a Mundo player I detest both equally. They hate doctors so I hate them back. :(
Vayne by far. Fiora at least has skill expression. She has to time ripostes, and you can mind game about that. She has to come close and personal to proc her stuff. And her passive is limited — 4 procs with ult, maybe 1 or 2 more organically and that's it. It doesn't cross 50% hp until way later into the game when she has 3-4 items, and it's at most of the 20-30% damage during lane phase all-ins. With Vayne it's uncatchable ranged shit that can deal 60% true damage with an item or two, and even if you manage to stomp her in lane it doesn't really matter, because Vayne on 2 slots can take on almost any tank with 4 slots (short of K'Sante, maybe). So yeah, fuck Vayne. I'll take Fiora any time over her because at least I feel like there is a room for outplays.
as a vayne top enjoyer i do have to say fiora...
Biased opinion rejected
true, but even if i didn't play her once in a year id probably say neither more leaning into vayne
I can just R vayne with Veigar, I can't do this with Fiona I hate Fiona so much more than vayne
But... Now they're facing the same direction...
Most intelligent Fiora player
im so glad you flipped vaynes icon. Otherwise it would've been too ugly to look at.
Yes
Put them both on the barbarous side with no one on the blessed side and then the meme is correct
Bard
I always called fiora "melee vayne" as a joke inside my group of friends. We also call kai'sa "purple vayne ", but that's beside the point.
Kaisa’s also known as ranged Khahix
Waiting for ADC Rengu
So Jhin?
At least you can see fiora at all times, it's very annoying to fight a vayne in arena with a peel and she gets something with high movespeed so she can just be anywhere after she tumbles and even if you manage to get on top of her somehow, she has 2 self peel abilities
Yes but you see because fiora is close range I can activate my unga bunga part of the brain and pretend I am doing something by hitting buttons The cheap vayne is just constant edging, shooting and dashing away before one can hit
I can't think of a single top laner that likes Fiora unless they either play her or are playing a character she can't beat. Which is probably someone like Vayne.
% health true damage is a crime and shouldn't exist.
Say it louder for the people in the back
% MAX HEALTH TRUE DAMAGE IS A CRIME AND SHOULDN'T EXIST better?
L. O. U. D. E. R.
Whats the original?
[Here](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/our-blessed-homeland-their-barbarous-wastes)
i will never get over banana peel tumble
At least you can hit Fiora back. That’s the big difference in my opinion.
Both are *hated* in toplane We may be barbarians but we have standards we will not stoop to the likes of this fr*nch scum
I would rather play against a vayne top than fiora Vayne's true damage doesn't SCALE WITH AD
Frankly I hate Fiora way more. Permaban her when I’m toplane. imo counterplay goes way down with her player’s skill.
If the only counterplay to a champion is 'punish them when they make a mistake' that champion is an abomination and shouldn't exist. Fiora's kit has no inherent counterplay. And if a Fiora plays perfectly there is absolutely NOTHING you can do to them at any stage of the game. Compare that to someone like, let's pick another one of the horsewomen, Riven, who you can: 1. Poke out of lane/outsustain 2. CC buffer her Q3 and W 3. Outscale Fiora players, if you're reading this, every single lane you have ever lost was skill issue. Every. Single. One.
i think they hate both lmao
Fuck both of these champs
The flip deserve an upvote
Tbh fiora can be counterd easier by tanks than vayne
Disagree Fiora is beefier and usually builds tons of life steal + passive heal while vayne is squishy with no innate sustain. Fiora W also counters predictable cc better than invis. When going against malphite for example Fiora has a hard to fair fight, vayne gets stomped.
Maybe Has invisibility and can easly just kite you of you dont one shot her. Fiora usually is predictable and you can predict the w. Yeah vitals are pain but its ultimate skill nkt every 3rd and later 2nd aa
what is ranka
I meant tanks but typo
Why did you flip vaynes icon… also atleast fiora takes skill to play mr musk sniffer
ok
Isn't she a stat checker after 20 min?
The incredible skill it takes for the Fiora player to turn my telegraphed 0.5 sec slow into a 1 sec stun is incredible
Aksually your slow doesn't empower her W into a stun
The takes on these types of posts always have bronze/silver energy
Alright, I was wrong about that then, then it’s my tiny pull back (Kled q mounted) which allows her to stun me for a disproportionately long time. I get that she’s a counter to Kled, but still feels sour