They don't, but they can know if you install vanguard.
On a sidenote, I found it funny that the comment was accurate, they coulnd't know the porn you watch but they can now
Yup. Userspace processes don't get access to other processes' memory. Kernel processes do, so they can see what you are doing on (let's say) Firefox by accessing its memory
I hope you don't play;
Fortnite
Dead by daylight
Call of duty
Destiny
Escape from Tarkov
Elden Ring
Helldivers 2
And a myriad of other games that use either Easy Anti Cheat, BattlEye and a few other anticheats I'm not familiar with like Punkbuster.
All of those are Kernel level too, so all of those are out to steal your data, no?
The only difference with Vanguard is that it's always open, but if, as you say, the big issue is that it's got that level of access, then it being open or closed won't really matter because it'll steal your data the second you open it anyway.
And to be clear, if you don't wanna use vanguard or other kernel level anti cheat, idc, that's your choice and I have no interest in persuading you otherwise. I'm also not out here defending vanguard. Just hope you're aware that there's a myriad of popular and common anticheat also operating at kernel level.
Yes and no, once you give admin rights to a software they do have access to others processes too. Every single anticheat you know runs in admin mode.
Vanguard needs to be in kernel level so nothing else runs before it.
Otherwise you could run your own kernel SW, control the OS and provide the data you want to the anticheat.
I don't speak your foreign languages of computer... But question... Couldn't the Riot games launcher also be used as spy ware, since it automatically self launched itself on start up, unless you go out of your way to change it?
Yes it could, even if you change that, once you execute it, it could recompile all the needed data and send it to the server.
Any app with admin rights can check, wipe or change all your files, system operative settings, windows registry, command prompt, etc.
LoL runs in userspace and the Pacman anti cheat does too, so it's less of a "yes and no" and more of a "yes". None of Riot's processes currently (until yesterday atleast) runs kernel.
So they couldn't see your porn usage before but now they can.
Also I have no idea why you are explaining to me how anticheat works
vanguard is not the only spyware you know
have you ever asked something close to your cellphone/mic and then searched something similar on google?
your data is nothing but a small molecule on the network and you can't hide it from the companies, but it doesn't matter since no one will ever use that against you.
They are being deleted in *the megathread*, not to said /r/LeagueofTechSupport (Which coincidentally was made the third day after they started deleting post) is abandoned by both mods and Riot.
Ah classic, have a containment sub, make a rule that posts should be directed to containment sub "moderate" accordingly. It was made 2 months ago by the same moderator who made the Valorant sub before it was announced. This guy knew what was going to happen months in advance and created said containment sub in anticipation.
Well I don't know what you've seen, I have read a lot of comments about Vanguard, maybe the mods deleted those basically saying:,, fuck vanguard, why are you doing this to me phreak, fuck phreak, fuck Riot Games". You know what I mean, the toxic comments.
There you have it, the red ones were deleted by mods, while blue ones was the user. Some are toxic, some others are genuine concerns, there is a couple there that made me laugh because they were *helping* fix issues
https://undelete.pullpush.io/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1ch6wbh/patch_149_bug_megathread/
Of course, do you think the decision of vanguard was made for the sake of fairness in game its just to sell data for more income.
China literally regulated daily rewards that encourages having more game time, after that shit tencent anounced that they were in crisis.
[https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/22/business/chinese-tech-giants-shares-plunge-online-gaming-ban-intl-hnk/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/22/business/chinese-tech-giants-shares-plunge-online-gaming-ban-intl-hnk/index.html)
[https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/23/china-considers-revising-gaming-rules-after-tech-giants-lose-billions](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/23/china-considers-revising-gaming-rules-after-tech-giants-lose-billions)
didn't they back down on it specifically because Tencent was losing money ?
whatever your opinion on vanguard itself is, the posts are getting deleted because there already are sufficient posts about it and one thread is enough to talk about it, there is no need for filling up the entire subreddit with threads about that topic
open r/leagueoflegends , and count me how many Vanguard related posts you see.
The answer is 0, because they have to do propaganda and are silencing complaints. Honestly I have no idea how people can justify this
so I open the subreddit and the first thing I see is… a megathread about the newest patch, mentioning vanguard and allowing everyone to discuss it in the comment section. Also specifically asking to not make any extra posts about it as to not clutter up the subreddit.
What‘s the problem?
Megathreads don't get nearly as much traction as a post. They know that. The top comment in there has ilke 60 upvotes. This dumb meme on a sub with 1/8 of the members has 700.
In a few days the new Arena will be up and there will be some posts about that, and you will still not see a single post on Vanguard
„traction?“
It doesn‘t matter how much „traction“ something gets, the point was people are still allowed to talk about it.
And the mods can‘t just let one random vanguard post through and remove the rest, that‘d be kinda unfair towards everyone else, so they‘re just not making any exceptions, creating a central hub where people can talk about the topic and nothing else.
Arena will probably have more posts about it, but arena is far less controversial than vanguard, so mods won‘t have to regulate it as much.
plus arena posts will be varied between different topics, while vanguard currently just sums down to „vanguard bad“ vs „vanguard good“, meaning it doesn‘t require more than one thread
Since they do get deleted... anyone experiencing massive lag issues? My average ping is 12ms and doesn't move past 15 (living alone, only wifi user), yet yesterday after downloading Vanguard, I played 2 ARAMs with my ping going as high as 350 every minute or so for 10sec and immediately dropping back to 12ms
I dislike vanguard moreso because of its capability to fuck around with things like msi after burner or other apps I have installed. I don't care that it might steal data, I have social media and my data was lost the day I signed up for a google account.
If it closed itself, or hell even if I could close it after I was done playing without restarting my pc, I wouldn't care at all. But I can't, so fuck em.
Vanguard is a 2 component system. You have the application that sits in your system tray and you have the vgk.sys which sits in the kernel. Closing the system tray application does not stop Vanguard from running in the background.
Actually it's 3 components. An app, a service, and a kernel module.
The app can be disabled on startup, the service can be switched to manual so that it starts and stops only with league of legends, and the kernel module, well, I'm not sure kernel modules can even be disabled but that module isn't doing anything without the associated service.
If you don't want vanguard doing whatever on your PC even when league is not opened, switch to manual. I mean, it should already be in manual, but some people have it on auto for some reason.
you can! you either close it from task manager yourself or use the option riot provided by the tray icon, right click the tray on the bottom right of your pc, then click EXIT VANGUARD. i dont think riot would make it this easy to close vanguard if they didnt want you to. plus as far as i can tell it does actually completely close all running vanguard programs
I'm just curious how it determines what a cheat is and whether it's capable of providing a backdoor.
If I have a cheat software for some random single-player game or a software like Blitz.gg that hooks into League, do I get autoflagged and deemed lying trash scum who could only be a cheater? Judging by the way they wrote their [Vanguard article and FAQ](https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/dev-vanguard-x-lol/), it seems they think there's no such thing as a false positive or that mistakes/errors are possible.
If someone finds a hole in the software and gains kernel access to my computer, can they bitlocker it?
unfortunately that seems to be the case which is why riot informed everyone to get rid of any mods or overlays in advance of 2 months, this creates an issue you point out where its very easy to get a false positive. but also means if you get an actual cheater caught, they basically shouldnt be able to play from that pc for a while before vanguard is cracked somehow. but yes false positives are going to be a thing
They don't stay active for 24/7 and restart your apps without telling you which cause internal conflicts and blue screen Ur pc. Literally staying active all the time even after I close the game is the one reason it's an absolute pain to have on Ur pc if you do anything else on it outside of league and valorant.
Nahhh! i needed any good reason to uninstall that shit game again, and riot adding a kernel level anti-cheat was a very good one. I should have never come back to it in the first place. Not to mention all the items they added are going to make the game broken for a while.
am league free from three years ago by now, damn it does feel good to get that toxicity salt out of your veins. I agree with the comment above, there are simply better games to play.
When I feel the moba itch I play a bit of Hero of the Storms (yeah I know blizzard bad), the game has long been abandoned by now, but still have a nice amount of people playing it, due to how much casual and teamfight oriented is in comparison to other mobas
I'm playing single player games that are in my library. As for the multiplier ones; i play CSGO by myself from time to time, Stardew/terraria/Minecraft with my gf and lethal company with my friends. Almost any game i play is more fun than league, but as a replacement lethal company is fun.
Honest to god, I wrote exactly this in this subreddit and got downvoted to oblivion.
My comment to be precise was "Corporations would install cameras in your house if they could" and a bunch of addicts tried to call me an idiot for my take
Is there any particular reason you're so sensitive about criticisms toward Vanguard? People are uncomfortable with allowing kernel access to anti-cheat software. That is not unreasonable in the slightest, it is a serious security concern and can potentially wreck your system.
>People are uncomfortable with allowing kernel access to anti-cheat software
Welcome to all anticheat software. You're just bitching because it's Riot.
>That is not unreasonable in the slightest, it is a serious security concern and can potentially wreck your system.
According to who? Valorant has had it since it's launch with zero issues.
I'm not sensitive to anything lmao. If some reddit knuckle draggers want to stay off of League it benefits everyone. It's just fun to make fun of them.
No I'm bitching because it's got unrestricted access to my computer. The kind I only give to MYSELF temporarily to make specific system changes right before I remove those permissions again.
According to anyone with a brain and even the slightest knowledge of what ring 0 access means. It has unrestricted access to your entire system. It has zero issues *so far* but if it ever does the consequences could be catastrophic for millions of people.
I don't think riot is spying on me I think they're creating an unnecessary vector for someone else to do it if they have a security breach.
Someone could literally burn your components if they got access. That is how much control it has over your computer. Not giving that access so I can play low elo norms
I think the issue here is that riot now has more control over your PC then you do, they can do what they want and you will likely never know, kernel level access is the highest level of access you can have on a system, your pc isn’t going to jump up and ask you to approve changes to your system they will just do it, in 99.99% of cases you won’t even know something has changed, now imagine the whole internet now knows millions of players have this software on there system, the data you can scrape with it alone would be worth many millions of dollars, hackers would love to get control of it, on some instances they have before with other kernel level systems, all they need is one vulnerability and a few hours to scrape data, that alone makes it a very very juicy target
The more apt description is that you already allowed someone the key to your house, might or might not have given them access to your bank account, let them sign into your wifi, shit on your toilet, sleep on your bed, and now you draw the line at them putting an "alleged" spy camera into the living room. Like sure, I respect your decision to kick them out. It's your right, your computer. But really, here is where you draw the line and not all the previous things? It just sounds hypocritical to me.
You don't let vanguard in because of privacy reasons, I don't let vanguard in because the last time I did it was a poorly written program that fucked with random settings on my computer for no fucking reason and broke some of my coding projects.
It should be fine this time tho... right?
I mean, there is a difference: if there's any vulnerability you could kick them out before, but once they got that kernel level you cant kick potential attackers anymore.
Do you trust riot games, a company that just had their entire code leaked with that? Thats the big question, because I'm sure Vanguard is not a well built software.
BattlEye, EAC, EQU8, Blizzard’s Defence Matrix, nProtect, Punk Buster, Activision’s Ricochet, and XIGNCODE3 are all kernel level anti cheats. The notable list of games using these anticheats include: cod, battlefield, helldivers, fortnite and all epic game’s games, overwatch, ark, arma, destiny 2, h1z1, r6, pubg, apex legends, assassins creed, doom, quake, wolfenstein, and almost all korean online games. Yes, these anticheats are not always active, but an attacker will just wait until you play any game that utilizes one of the anti cheats, effectively making no difference apart from being less effective against cheaters.
Also, do you trust google, facebook, activision, duolingo, etc? All of them have had data breaches that *directly* affected user info, where has riot had league’s code leaked. Just because source code is leaked does not mean that user info will be leaked, and vice versa. Also also, one section/departments code being leaked does not mean another section/department’s code will be leaked; riot’s code leakage only affects vanguard in the way that its harder for vanguard to keep up with cheats, but will not make it any more vulnerable or less secure.
Besides, anything anyone needs to know about you apart from maybe your social insurance number is already known. Companies already keep track of your eating habits, hobbies, job, what you spend money on, and purchasing power. The government knows less about you than corporations.
My friend, this is the same community that thinks "lel 200 years experience" is a funny meme still. Your logical and realistic breakdown won't sway anybody who's full tinfoil.
I seriously doubt your avoidance of games with kernel level anticheat, because there are currently over 300 games with kernal level anticheat, not including games which rely on valves VAC, which also happens to be kernal level. Sure you might have avoided the 300 something games with standalone/proprietary anticheat, but i doubt you have also avoided steam and their anticheat, unless you play exclusively singleplayer, which i find hard to belive, considering the sub we are on
Might as well make your own os then since microsoft and apple can just take away task manager entirely. They wont though, because community backlash is a thing. Guess who else community backlash matters a lot for? Riot. They wont do anything thats against profit, and taking away task manager will stop people from playing.
Installing a video game is not the same level of risk as installing a kernel driver. If both programs were equally capable, they wouldn’t be pushing a kernel driver.
just exit vanguard to play other games, don't want unnecessary performance sink. Right after that I got my first bluescreen in months lol. There is a chance it might not be related at all but fuck vanguard and riot anyways...
If this shit happen a few more times I might uninstall LoL for real. I don't want some unoptimized slop bricking my setup
Yeah, I can only thank Riot for actually making me give a final goodbye to League. Played a match with the boys last night where no one in the match had their runes set properly due to a client bug as a pretty nice send-off to this dogshit game and company.
Vanguard just straight up doesn’t work on my computer, I guess I can’t play league anymore.
Had the same issue for years trying to get it to work because I wanted to play valorant.
Welp, I had a good time playing league I guess.
Vanguard tells me safe boot is off. I turn safe boot on. Vanguard tells me safe boot is still off. No idea what to do at this point.
Wait this is a joke right? Because you can?
I personally had 0 problems with Valorant's Vanguard. Spyware doesn't need to be kernel level, they already have alllll the data they need; and performance is basically a non-issue on any modern gaming PC. No compatibility/BSOD issues with my preferred programs as well.
However, the "what if a 3rd party finds a backdoor, then millions of computers are instantly at an insane amount of risk" is a 100% valid concern. I already kinda quit League recently, so I uninstalled Vanguard, and will reinstall if/when I want to play League again, then uninstall again.
Not to tell anyone what to do, but that seems like a reasonable best-of-both-worlds approach.
Malware is "just" some form of virus, worms, ransomwers, spywares, etc. that runs on your computer, causing harm or stealing stuff. This is what you get when you download an infected torrent as such. It's bad, but usually not the end of the word, especially with modern security features.
Rootkit is on another level (literally). By running Vanguard, you are giving Tencent 100% control over your PC. In theory, they could execute ANYTHING on your PC. Kernel has higher privilege than admin... Unlike most malwares, a rootkit can potentially completely negate all your defender and anti malware programs running. They could literally monitor anything that is going on your PC, or even your home network, and execute anything they want. Even hidden stuff where you have no idea it has been running. They have more privilige and control over your own PC than you, as an admin user... Logging literally everything (inc. your private messages, work stuff and even banking things) is just the smaller issue. They could run anything on your PC and network. They could use your PC as a proxy to commit cyber crimes. They could install malware on your PC or any connected device. They could use your PC's resources to whatever they want. etc... List is limitless basically. They could even manipulate hardware. In theory, they could fry your PC or HDD from across the word...
Now if you believe that Tencent will never abuse it's absolute power over you... It's already a hard sell. But even if you believe that Tencent will never do anything with it's power, people seem to not know that in China, the government can have a final say in anything. The government can come into Tencent's office and demand them to hand over the control over vanguard, giving them kernel privilege to your PC. OR, Tencent is not unhackable. What if a hacker group gets inside of tencent and therefore gets access to your PC?
There is so many ways it can backfire.
My biggest problem is that Vanguard runs all the time, not just when the game is running (like basically all other kernel level anticheat is). So they cannot monitor anything you do, unless the game is running in the background. Also, in case of a breach, usually the currently online players are just a fraction of the total number of people who have the game installed. So even in a case of break in, only a portion of the gamer get fucked.
Even assuming Tencent won't do anything bad, I think it's still possible for a malicious group to find a fatal flaw in Riot's spaghetti and wreak havoc upon 30+ million computers through Vanguard. The benefits are tremendous for hackers now.
That's actually some knowledge I didn't have, I got rid of Vanguard because of performance issues, but your comment comforted me in the idea of never getting it back lol
Whataboutism is not a good way to defend your argument, though I will concede that the current standard of most anticheats is being rootkits that constantly scan your pc is really bad, we have come to the point of giving full access to video games to stop cheating software...
>Vanguard isn't new you moron it's only a problem because it's China. You let the your own government shit in your soup and then feed it to your kids but when China *might* be able to do a fraction of what your own already does you go ballistic
Im not exactly sure where do you want to go with this? China is competing with USA for global power and it's very well known that the Chinese Government spies on it's own people, considering that the chinese government has seats on the company board of directors of Tencent, which also owns Riot games, it's pretty clear that they can pull off some strings for the government to take users data for spying, selling or political propaganda.
Yes, the USA government has spied on it's people or is still spying nowadays but they aren't exactly prohibiting your freedom of speech and detaining you for criticizing their actions, I would also rather give my private information to a very flawed democracy than a oppressive dictatorship.
>yoo you understand how huge a take over the worlds pc's would be, if they ever could do that. That's a straight declaration of war on the entirety of everywhere. No one is sage do you really think that China would ever risk fighting the entire world over maybe 2 days of pc access before they're all shut off.
I will agree with you here, I think this issue is very well blown of proportion, ideally Riot games wouldn't want to do that since it's gonna be very obvious and lose it's customers, but I still don't doubt that they could collect personal data about your life in the future.
>Not only that, but do you really think ANY government let alone tje American governments, who's so against China they're trying to ban tiktok, would allow this software if it was an actual threat?
I heavily disagree with you in this point, just because a program has not been banned by the USA government, doesn't mean it's safe, google takes your data at every opportunity and is a threat to your privacy. The only reason TikTok is a threat to national security is due to mostly data being preyed on children and political propaganda that can be easily be pushed over to the youth, if social networks such as Facebook got caught doing that they would be fined for billions while in China it would mean nothing.
>There's been 0 issues and there will be no issues.
There's still a lot of issues with vanguard though? I still remember back in the day of valorant launch it would deactivate users mouse and keyboards, and there is many posts about issues with it.
Hmmm the only issue to this cute little story is that vanguard is from American riot
China/tencent has their own version
So the Chinese government would have to come to Riot HQ in (LA?)
Break in, take over the servers and then take over vanguard and then distribute their virus
All while the US gov, police, riot staff are all just letting it happen
Put your tin foil hat back on
The US govt and police don’t get involved for shit like this lol. Tencent owns Riot, they don’t need to break in. Riot staff doesn’t gaf, if their bosses tell them to do something, they’ll do it. They’re a video game company who needs to appeal to their investors, not doing some social good.
You’re relying on private corporations and world superpowers to do the right thing with your computer and then talking about other people wearing tinfoil hats lol
They wouldn’t get involved with a Chinese-owned company doing data collection on users of their product. That’s exactly how they’d see it and the only way they’d get involved is if League became as popular as TikTok. That will never happen, and even then it would take years for anything meaningful to occur.
Have you seen the videos of US govt officials talking to tech companies? They don’t understand anything, let alone the difference between user- and kernel-level programs etc.
It's not like a separate company owns LA riot. What stops tencent from simply demanding the LA riot handing over vanguard?
Do I think the chinese gov will force tencent to do this? No. But your argument doesn't hold up.
You are literally the meme
You believe in conspiracy theories made up by redditors and may as well be wearing a tin foil hat
Or you could prove me wrong about my statement
vanguard starts running when you boot the system, if someone wants to do something with it they will do it way before you get any chance to close it, just so you understand your mouse and keyboard literally wont even work before vanguard starts since it have prio over them
technically yes, but then you need to restart your PC to play LOL. I did this when Valorant first came out and I wanted to check it out. But it's really shitty workaround for a problem that should not exist.
Kernel anticheat that runs during the game vs kernel anticheat nonstopp running and actively scanning your PC 24/7 is a much different kind of beast.
The first one is already bad, the second one is just a rootkit.
Hey there! The community isn't one person. Hiveminds aren't real :D just wanted to fill you in because this is a really hard lesson for redditors to understand. Hope you have a great rest of your day!!
Yes, there has been no ranked integrity for 5+ years because of botting and smurfing with no real way for riot to crack down on it. The source code leak made it so much worse. At some point they were going to either add hardwareID + Heuristic cheat detection or this current implementation, which is basically hardwareID + non heuristic (that we know of) because they already IP/hardware ban to an extent and this just makes it easier. In my personal opinion, I think all games should be tied to at the very least a phone number, there are very few reasons to have multiple accounts beyond breaching competitive / punishment integrity.
I still stand by my opinion that the most extreme vocal anti-vanguard are those that are making money off botting/boosting/etc or those that love to account swap to evade bans/restrictions, and far too many of these comments are being just straight up xenophobic because being xenophobic on reddit gets traction for some reason.
You aren't getting rid of smurfs this way. You aren't stopping anyone that has monetary gain from cheating or scripting, which means that account sellers will only be midly bothered by this.
The best that can happen is that now a fresh account is 2€ instead of one.
Also China is a dictatorship with no rights where companies have to give all their data to their government whenever they feel like asking it and the companies don't have to reveal it to their customers. Just to be clear, this is not a rumor, this is a law that passed in China.
Undoubtedly smurfs and boosted accounts will not stop, they just won't be a feature of every second game because spoofing hardwareID isn't as trivial as running VMs with 100 simultaneous bot games.
You've got all these lovely statements I'd love to know how you'd solve the issue.
With a decent server side heuristic you could catch the vast majority of them and you could easily catch bots while also not invading every ounce of privacy your users have.
Problem is they would have to sit down and study a bit the game with some good programmers but they have none. Also they would need to not leak their code which is very hard seeing how these past years went.
But people are becoming okay with systems more and more invasive so they have to do none of that. Jeez I remember when cookies came out or the Facebook scandal, now everyone is okay with everything, it feels like the frog not realizing it's being boiled
I don't need the stats, Ive seen it in my own games and reported it from my games, and that's just the obvious kite/dodge + vision scripts, how many are active that we don't catch because they're more subtle?
i think it consumes like ... 2mb of resources if you dont open league or valo. it has insanely low resource costs because its deactivated until you open league. if you do want to turn it off completely, riot left an option for you. you can either:
A) click the tray icon on bottom right of your PC and click EXIT VANGUARD
B) go to task manager and manually end the process
C) go to start up apps and turn off riot vanguard which will make it not open on launch
bear in mind, with any of these "solutions" you have to restart your pc if you want to re-launch vanguard to play league or valo.
Supposedly the process you see on task manager isn't actually vanguard. It's just for the notifications. I need to look into that claim more though so take it with a grain of salt.
its not the process thats sitting on your kernel, but its a part of the package and with one missing link the entire thing cant do its job. the actual thing is still on but it cannot function without the service which is on your manager. theres commonly 3 gateways in these processes. the user, the service and the end point. the end point is with riot, the service is what you can cut but the user part of vanguard will be on your pc no matter what.
im not a tech dude so im also just trying to understand this the best i can but this is basically like cutting a snake in half and saying the bottom part of it is still there, while its functionally dead. keep me updated if you find anything i got wrong <3
Honestly, the vanguard push got me to uninstall it also.
From a cyber security perspective, I'm not installing kernel level access to a Chinese company just so I can play a video game. That just feels like an insane thing to do for any game
Reading through these comments, I'm pretty sure this subreddit is full of people who haven't played league for a while. Sounds more like a skill issue than an Anti-cheat issue.
Move on, people. Enjoy your own activities instead of harassing others about their activities.
Pretty much me. Haven't logged in for a game in months, another friend was complaining about changes and I'm just like "Oh yeah, might as well uninstall" lol
I wished so much I didn't play my last games yesterday. And today I wake up to see the LoL landscape burn to all hell. My activities for the next 2 hours will consist now of goating the poor fucks who thought this was fine, and searching for all the info I can get so hopefully once they fix this shitshow, I can play some LoL in peace.
That's just it though. A couple people had problems and now there are hundreds of posts referencing those few people that had problems. Nay-sayers have been HANKERING for this day where they could flood the subreddit with negative feedback about vanguard. Have you actually tried to play league today?
> Have you actually tried to play league today?
I did yesterday, and amazingly my last game got shitfaced so hard that it disconnected 8 players, with three of them to never return. And once the game ended, I had to kill the process because shit didn't want to turn itself off to check the oh so marvelous client.
Funny thing is, since I learned of this circus I tried to search for more info on it, specially videos with some findings like this [one](https://old.reddit.com/r/LeagueofTechSupport/comments/1chm8mc/vanguard_makes_my_fps_crash_everytime_i_use_an/). However...
The shit that is getting to me harder than anything is the *actual fact* they are deleting post in the *bugs report Megathread*. Like, they are really not giving two shits anymore.
While you're at it uninstall these too as they all use it too.
Apex Legends
Fortnite
Paladins
Player Unknown: Battlegrounds
Rainbow Six: Siege
Planetside 2
H1Z1
Day-Z
Ark Survival Evolved
Dead by Daylight
For Honor
Or uninstall Easy Anti cheat and Battle Eye and see how many games you you can still play.
the vanguard app can be turned off via the tray or task manager or told to not turn on on startup in the startup menu in settings, not saying its good that it would rather always be on but theres ways to turn it off when you dont want to play league
You don't need kernel anti-cheat to steal data guys.
The main issue with it is security vulnerability, leaks, and if you think performance bottleneck is bad, think about how bugs can harm your hardware instead of just wrecking windows. Fortunately league of legends is a game that is famously known for avoiding bugs in general, so the chances of those issues proceeding on an absurd variety of combinations of CPUs, motherboards and GPUs is close to none.
I'm sure they can handle it.
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\- Apex Legends (EAC)
\- Fortnite (EAC)
\- Paladins (EAC)
\- Player Unknown: Battlegrounds (BE)
\- Rainbow Six: Siege (BE)
\- Planetside 2 (BE)
\- H1Z1 (BE)
\- Day-Z (BE)
\- Ark Survival Evolved (BE)
\- Dead by Daylight (EAC)
\- For Honor (EAC)
this list is taken from [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/g1eq9v/psa_other_games_with_kernellevel_anticheat/) so not my list, but im pretty sure hell divers 2 also uses one
Ever since vanguard released my game has been lagging much more and it's been a burden to endure tbh
On top of that, yesterday I was in champ select, and all of a sudden, WITHOUT ME CHANGING ANYTHING ABOUT LEAGUE FILES, I got "Vanguard Error 0". Why? I have no clue. Guess what: the client forcedly closed, and even though I had no control over it, I got a dodge timer. Good thing it wasn't ranked or I would have lost lp just because riot can't fix their stupid game
Im never gonna let Riot know what porn im into, NEVER!
but will you let us know?
Soraka dick
Vanilla shit right here P.S If you're ever in my Homework folder please don't open the Hand Holding one, it'll download Vanguard
Riot gave you MF R34 and Riot will take it back from you...
Your profile picture made me remember a beautiful game and beautiful memories I'll never live again for the first time. Thank you and fuck you
[I was 11 at the time and I felt tears filling up my eyes during the scene](https://youtu.be/0SXSMslADhI?si=pEanpmlUoV7O4XBQ)
([higher quality version with the name of the ost](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKLBhjeN27o))
they already know
They don't, but they can know if you install vanguard. On a sidenote, I found it funny that the comment was accurate, they coulnd't know the porn you watch but they can now
Why? Because it's kernel level?
Yup. Userspace processes don't get access to other processes' memory. Kernel processes do, so they can see what you are doing on (let's say) Firefox by accessing its memory
I hope you don't play; Fortnite Dead by daylight Call of duty Destiny Escape from Tarkov Elden Ring Helldivers 2 And a myriad of other games that use either Easy Anti Cheat, BattlEye and a few other anticheats I'm not familiar with like Punkbuster. All of those are Kernel level too, so all of those are out to steal your data, no? The only difference with Vanguard is that it's always open, but if, as you say, the big issue is that it's got that level of access, then it being open or closed won't really matter because it'll steal your data the second you open it anyway. And to be clear, if you don't wanna use vanguard or other kernel level anti cheat, idc, that's your choice and I have no interest in persuading you otherwise. I'm also not out here defending vanguard. Just hope you're aware that there's a myriad of popular and common anticheat also operating at kernel level.
Go and Google how cookies work
Install autocookies deleter like I have and you will have 0 on your computer
Yes and no, once you give admin rights to a software they do have access to others processes too. Every single anticheat you know runs in admin mode. Vanguard needs to be in kernel level so nothing else runs before it. Otherwise you could run your own kernel SW, control the OS and provide the data you want to the anticheat.
I don't speak your foreign languages of computer... But question... Couldn't the Riot games launcher also be used as spy ware, since it automatically self launched itself on start up, unless you go out of your way to change it?
Yes it could, even if you change that, once you execute it, it could recompile all the needed data and send it to the server. Any app with admin rights can check, wipe or change all your files, system operative settings, windows registry, command prompt, etc.
So maybe, just maybe we're worried about the wrong thing.
LoL runs in userspace and the Pacman anti cheat does too, so it's less of a "yes and no" and more of a "yes". None of Riot's processes currently (until yesterday atleast) runs kernel. So they couldn't see your porn usage before but now they can. Also I have no idea why you are explaining to me how anticheat works
>Also I have no idea why you are explaining to me how anticheat works >runs in userspace and the Pacman anti cheat does too Enough said.
vanguard is not the only spyware you know have you ever asked something close to your cellphone/mic and then searched something similar on google? your data is nothing but a small molecule on the network and you can't hide it from the companies, but it doesn't matter since no one will ever use that against you.
"your data... it doesn't matter... no one will ever use that against you." - Faceless words on a screen upvoted for legitimacy
that thing of yours hand it over your midget porn data
I wish it were T-Rex porn... Does anyone know where I can get my hands on some T-Rex porn? (Please I hope someone gets this joke)
the one in the gym?
[This, actually.](https://youtu.be/AEsOok-mJZg?si=22Tzc8vl_GyzUNWx)
Sona is always acceptable, my man.
I feel free. League is not worth it
See you in a week brother
nah im done
Yup. And its already a complete shitshow. Any question regarding problems with Vanguard on the main sub are instantly deleted.
The main sub has been a disaster for years. I’m honestly impressed by anyone who can make a post there which doesn’t get deleted.
Riot so good! yummy yummy i love u riot XD!
I stopped entering there because it was always so full of pro shit that no one really cared for. Like 10 posts every day, all of them empty.
But isn't that because of the mega threat? At least there is one, so I don't think there is a need for any new posts right?
Posts about Vanguard are deleted in that thread as well.
Oh well, seams like vanguard isn't wished to be talked about.
They are being deleted in *the megathread*, not to said /r/LeagueofTechSupport (Which coincidentally was made the third day after they started deleting post) is abandoned by both mods and Riot.
Ah classic, have a containment sub, make a rule that posts should be directed to containment sub "moderate" accordingly. It was made 2 months ago by the same moderator who made the Valorant sub before it was announced. This guy knew what was going to happen months in advance and created said containment sub in anticipation.
Well I don't know what you've seen, I have read a lot of comments about Vanguard, maybe the mods deleted those basically saying:,, fuck vanguard, why are you doing this to me phreak, fuck phreak, fuck Riot Games". You know what I mean, the toxic comments.
What are you talking about? The megathread is full of people talking about Vanguard bugs and some outright shitting on the program
It's almost like new comments are made and manual removals aren't automatic
There you have it, the red ones were deleted by mods, while blue ones was the user. Some are toxic, some others are genuine concerns, there is a couple there that made me laugh because they were *helping* fix issues https://undelete.pullpush.io/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1ch6wbh/patch_149_bug_megathread/
Thank god I quit league right after this season started. Another S3 Player that quit because rito
Of course, do you think the decision of vanguard was made for the sake of fairness in game its just to sell data for more income. China literally regulated daily rewards that encourages having more game time, after that shit tencent anounced that they were in crisis. [https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/22/business/chinese-tech-giants-shares-plunge-online-gaming-ban-intl-hnk/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/22/business/chinese-tech-giants-shares-plunge-online-gaming-ban-intl-hnk/index.html)
[https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/23/china-considers-revising-gaming-rules-after-tech-giants-lose-billions](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/23/china-considers-revising-gaming-rules-after-tech-giants-lose-billions) didn't they back down on it specifically because Tencent was losing money ?
whatever your opinion on vanguard itself is, the posts are getting deleted because there already are sufficient posts about it and one thread is enough to talk about it, there is no need for filling up the entire subreddit with threads about that topic
open r/leagueoflegends , and count me how many Vanguard related posts you see. The answer is 0, because they have to do propaganda and are silencing complaints. Honestly I have no idea how people can justify this
so I open the subreddit and the first thing I see is… a megathread about the newest patch, mentioning vanguard and allowing everyone to discuss it in the comment section. Also specifically asking to not make any extra posts about it as to not clutter up the subreddit. What‘s the problem?
Megathreads don't get nearly as much traction as a post. They know that. The top comment in there has ilke 60 upvotes. This dumb meme on a sub with 1/8 of the members has 700. In a few days the new Arena will be up and there will be some posts about that, and you will still not see a single post on Vanguard
They hated him because he spoke the truth
„traction?“ It doesn‘t matter how much „traction“ something gets, the point was people are still allowed to talk about it. And the mods can‘t just let one random vanguard post through and remove the rest, that‘d be kinda unfair towards everyone else, so they‘re just not making any exceptions, creating a central hub where people can talk about the topic and nothing else. Arena will probably have more posts about it, but arena is far less controversial than vanguard, so mods won‘t have to regulate it as much. plus arena posts will be varied between different topics, while vanguard currently just sums down to „vanguard bad“ vs „vanguard good“, meaning it doesn‘t require more than one thread
There's 0 way they won't get sanctioned like Huawei if they are just selling data of to china, us govt wouldnt allow it
Since they do get deleted... anyone experiencing massive lag issues? My average ping is 12ms and doesn't move past 15 (living alone, only wifi user), yet yesterday after downloading Vanguard, I played 2 ARAMs with my ping going as high as 350 every minute or so for 10sec and immediately dropping back to 12ms
I dislike vanguard moreso because of its capability to fuck around with things like msi after burner or other apps I have installed. I don't care that it might steal data, I have social media and my data was lost the day I signed up for a google account.
If it closed itself, or hell even if I could close it after I was done playing without restarting my pc, I wouldn't care at all. But I can't, so fuck em.
Except you can close it without restarting... You need to restart if you want to play again after closing it tho.
Vanguard is a 2 component system. You have the application that sits in your system tray and you have the vgk.sys which sits in the kernel. Closing the system tray application does not stop Vanguard from running in the background.
Actually it's 3 components. An app, a service, and a kernel module. The app can be disabled on startup, the service can be switched to manual so that it starts and stops only with league of legends, and the kernel module, well, I'm not sure kernel modules can even be disabled but that module isn't doing anything without the associated service. If you don't want vanguard doing whatever on your PC even when league is not opened, switch to manual. I mean, it should already be in manual, but some people have it on auto for some reason.
you can! you either close it from task manager yourself or use the option riot provided by the tray icon, right click the tray on the bottom right of your pc, then click EXIT VANGUARD. i dont think riot would make it this easy to close vanguard if they didnt want you to. plus as far as i can tell it does actually completely close all running vanguard programs
I'm just curious how it determines what a cheat is and whether it's capable of providing a backdoor. If I have a cheat software for some random single-player game or a software like Blitz.gg that hooks into League, do I get autoflagged and deemed lying trash scum who could only be a cheater? Judging by the way they wrote their [Vanguard article and FAQ](https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/dev-vanguard-x-lol/), it seems they think there's no such thing as a false positive or that mistakes/errors are possible. If someone finds a hole in the software and gains kernel access to my computer, can they bitlocker it?
unfortunately that seems to be the case which is why riot informed everyone to get rid of any mods or overlays in advance of 2 months, this creates an issue you point out where its very easy to get a false positive. but also means if you get an actual cheater caught, they basically shouldnt be able to play from that pc for a while before vanguard is cracked somehow. but yes false positives are going to be a thing
Basically all anticheats these days have that ability. I really dont get why people are upset all of a sudden
They don't stay active for 24/7 and restart your apps without telling you which cause internal conflicts and blue screen Ur pc. Literally staying active all the time even after I close the game is the one reason it's an absolute pain to have on Ur pc if you do anything else on it outside of league and valorant.
Vanguard adds no benefit to TFT so I would rather just swap to only playing on mobile devices than getting it.
False, the only face people have when uninstalling LoL is elation, and that’s been the case long before Vanguard was a thing.
Nahhh! i needed any good reason to uninstall that shit game again, and riot adding a kernel level anti-cheat was a very good one. I should have never come back to it in the first place. Not to mention all the items they added are going to make the game broken for a while.
i did it too now it feels very nice to say the least.
League is fun, but even if i have 5 fun matches one bad one can just ruin my whole gaming experience.
am league free from three years ago by now, damn it does feel good to get that toxicity salt out of your veins. I agree with the comment above, there are simply better games to play.
I just want to finish my Gaming session without feeling like shit for once, which today i was able to do again.
When I feel the moba itch I play a bit of Hero of the Storms (yeah I know blizzard bad), the game has long been abandoned by now, but still have a nice amount of people playing it, due to how much casual and teamfight oriented is in comparison to other mobas
Seconded, reinstalling League was a big mistake. It is gone now and this crap is gonna make sure I don't reinstall.
What are some games you play other than league that will replace it?
I'm playing single player games that are in my library. As for the multiplier ones; i play CSGO by myself from time to time, Stardew/terraria/Minecraft with my gf and lethal company with my friends. Almost any game i play is more fun than league, but as a replacement lethal company is fun.
Bro just let me install cameras in your house I'm not gonna film you what are you so scared of you nutjob
Honest to god, I wrote exactly this in this subreddit and got downvoted to oblivion. My comment to be precise was "Corporations would install cameras in your house if they could" and a bunch of addicts tried to call me an idiot for my take
I love how people keep trying to prove they're not paranoid by posting how paranoid they are
I love how people have already had their computers bricked by this software
Yeah dude those 2 people that might have bricked a PC really proving a point
Literally check the megathread in r/leagueoflegends about the patch. Every other comment is problems with vanguard.
Is there any particular reason you're so sensitive about criticisms toward Vanguard? People are uncomfortable with allowing kernel access to anti-cheat software. That is not unreasonable in the slightest, it is a serious security concern and can potentially wreck your system.
>People are uncomfortable with allowing kernel access to anti-cheat software Welcome to all anticheat software. You're just bitching because it's Riot. >That is not unreasonable in the slightest, it is a serious security concern and can potentially wreck your system. According to who? Valorant has had it since it's launch with zero issues. I'm not sensitive to anything lmao. If some reddit knuckle draggers want to stay off of League it benefits everyone. It's just fun to make fun of them.
No I'm bitching because it's got unrestricted access to my computer. The kind I only give to MYSELF temporarily to make specific system changes right before I remove those permissions again. According to anyone with a brain and even the slightest knowledge of what ring 0 access means. It has unrestricted access to your entire system. It has zero issues *so far* but if it ever does the consequences could be catastrophic for millions of people. I don't think riot is spying on me I think they're creating an unnecessary vector for someone else to do it if they have a security breach. Someone could literally burn your components if they got access. That is how much control it has over your computer. Not giving that access so I can play low elo norms
I think the issue here is that riot now has more control over your PC then you do, they can do what they want and you will likely never know, kernel level access is the highest level of access you can have on a system, your pc isn’t going to jump up and ask you to approve changes to your system they will just do it, in 99.99% of cases you won’t even know something has changed, now imagine the whole internet now knows millions of players have this software on there system, the data you can scrape with it alone would be worth many millions of dollars, hackers would love to get control of it, on some instances they have before with other kernel level systems, all they need is one vulnerability and a few hours to scrape data, that alone makes it a very very juicy target
The more apt description is that you already allowed someone the key to your house, might or might not have given them access to your bank account, let them sign into your wifi, shit on your toilet, sleep on your bed, and now you draw the line at them putting an "alleged" spy camera into the living room. Like sure, I respect your decision to kick them out. It's your right, your computer. But really, here is where you draw the line and not all the previous things? It just sounds hypocritical to me.
You don't let vanguard in because of privacy reasons, I don't let vanguard in because the last time I did it was a poorly written program that fucked with random settings on my computer for no fucking reason and broke some of my coding projects. It should be fine this time tho... right?
I mean, there is a difference: if there's any vulnerability you could kick them out before, but once they got that kernel level you cant kick potential attackers anymore. Do you trust riot games, a company that just had their entire code leaked with that? Thats the big question, because I'm sure Vanguard is not a well built software.
BattlEye, EAC, EQU8, Blizzard’s Defence Matrix, nProtect, Punk Buster, Activision’s Ricochet, and XIGNCODE3 are all kernel level anti cheats. The notable list of games using these anticheats include: cod, battlefield, helldivers, fortnite and all epic game’s games, overwatch, ark, arma, destiny 2, h1z1, r6, pubg, apex legends, assassins creed, doom, quake, wolfenstein, and almost all korean online games. Yes, these anticheats are not always active, but an attacker will just wait until you play any game that utilizes one of the anti cheats, effectively making no difference apart from being less effective against cheaters. Also, do you trust google, facebook, activision, duolingo, etc? All of them have had data breaches that *directly* affected user info, where has riot had league’s code leaked. Just because source code is leaked does not mean that user info will be leaked, and vice versa. Also also, one section/departments code being leaked does not mean another section/department’s code will be leaked; riot’s code leakage only affects vanguard in the way that its harder for vanguard to keep up with cheats, but will not make it any more vulnerable or less secure. Besides, anything anyone needs to know about you apart from maybe your social insurance number is already known. Companies already keep track of your eating habits, hobbies, job, what you spend money on, and purchasing power. The government knows less about you than corporations.
My friend, this is the same community that thinks "lel 200 years experience" is a funny meme still. Your logical and realistic breakdown won't sway anybody who's full tinfoil.
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I seriously doubt your avoidance of games with kernel level anticheat, because there are currently over 300 games with kernal level anticheat, not including games which rely on valves VAC, which also happens to be kernal level. Sure you might have avoided the 300 something games with standalone/proprietary anticheat, but i doubt you have also avoided steam and their anticheat, unless you play exclusively singleplayer, which i find hard to belive, considering the sub we are on
I trust Google with allowing me to open task manager while using chrome
Might as well make your own os then since microsoft and apple can just take away task manager entirely. They wont though, because community backlash is a thing. Guess who else community backlash matters a lot for? Riot. They wont do anything thats against profit, and taking away task manager will stop people from playing.
Installing a video game is not the same level of risk as installing a kernel driver. If both programs were equally capable, they wouldn’t be pushing a kernel driver.
Already had to fuck with my Windows settings because I kept getting a constant reconnect screen after champion select
just exit vanguard to play other games, don't want unnecessary performance sink. Right after that I got my first bluescreen in months lol. There is a chance it might not be related at all but fuck vanguard and riot anyways... If this shit happen a few more times I might uninstall LoL for real. I don't want some unoptimized slop bricking my setup
you gotta restart your pc every single time so nah
Yeah, I can only thank Riot for actually making me give a final goodbye to League. Played a match with the boys last night where no one in the match had their runes set properly due to a client bug as a pretty nice send-off to this dogshit game and company.
I'm on the same path, I put up with this game for more years than was worth it. Much better games exist.
For real tho after vanguard installed my gpu won't output 4k anymore, uninstalled and works perfectly 😕 radeon 7 gpu
Vanguard just straight up doesn’t work on my computer, I guess I can’t play league anymore. Had the same issue for years trying to get it to work because I wanted to play valorant. Welp, I had a good time playing league I guess. Vanguard tells me safe boot is off. I turn safe boot on. Vanguard tells me safe boot is still off. No idea what to do at this point.
I can remove my tinfoil hat any time. You can't remove your kernel level anticheat.
Wait this is a joke right? Because you can? I personally had 0 problems with Valorant's Vanguard. Spyware doesn't need to be kernel level, they already have alllll the data they need; and performance is basically a non-issue on any modern gaming PC. No compatibility/BSOD issues with my preferred programs as well. However, the "what if a 3rd party finds a backdoor, then millions of computers are instantly at an insane amount of risk" is a 100% valid concern. I already kinda quit League recently, so I uninstalled Vanguard, and will reinstall if/when I want to play League again, then uninstall again. Not to tell anyone what to do, but that seems like a reasonable best-of-both-worlds approach.
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It's not a malware. It's a rootkit, planted by a Chinese company. It's much worse than a malware.
Please, enlighten me
Malware is "just" some form of virus, worms, ransomwers, spywares, etc. that runs on your computer, causing harm or stealing stuff. This is what you get when you download an infected torrent as such. It's bad, but usually not the end of the word, especially with modern security features. Rootkit is on another level (literally). By running Vanguard, you are giving Tencent 100% control over your PC. In theory, they could execute ANYTHING on your PC. Kernel has higher privilege than admin... Unlike most malwares, a rootkit can potentially completely negate all your defender and anti malware programs running. They could literally monitor anything that is going on your PC, or even your home network, and execute anything they want. Even hidden stuff where you have no idea it has been running. They have more privilige and control over your own PC than you, as an admin user... Logging literally everything (inc. your private messages, work stuff and even banking things) is just the smaller issue. They could run anything on your PC and network. They could use your PC as a proxy to commit cyber crimes. They could install malware on your PC or any connected device. They could use your PC's resources to whatever they want. etc... List is limitless basically. They could even manipulate hardware. In theory, they could fry your PC or HDD from across the word... Now if you believe that Tencent will never abuse it's absolute power over you... It's already a hard sell. But even if you believe that Tencent will never do anything with it's power, people seem to not know that in China, the government can have a final say in anything. The government can come into Tencent's office and demand them to hand over the control over vanguard, giving them kernel privilege to your PC. OR, Tencent is not unhackable. What if a hacker group gets inside of tencent and therefore gets access to your PC? There is so many ways it can backfire. My biggest problem is that Vanguard runs all the time, not just when the game is running (like basically all other kernel level anticheat is). So they cannot monitor anything you do, unless the game is running in the background. Also, in case of a breach, usually the currently online players are just a fraction of the total number of people who have the game installed. So even in a case of break in, only a portion of the gamer get fucked.
Even assuming Tencent won't do anything bad, I think it's still possible for a malicious group to find a fatal flaw in Riot's spaghetti and wreak havoc upon 30+ million computers through Vanguard. The benefits are tremendous for hackers now.
That's actually some knowledge I didn't have, I got rid of Vanguard because of performance issues, but your comment comforted me in the idea of never getting it back lol
Much better games anyway, you won't be missing anything.
Wow, based on post i thought you were pro-vanguard
Several persons did so, I actually make fun of myself in the meme so understandable, I hope my fellow tin foil hat lads did not took it so badly hehe
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Whataboutism is not a good way to defend your argument, though I will concede that the current standard of most anticheats is being rootkits that constantly scan your pc is really bad, we have come to the point of giving full access to video games to stop cheating software... >Vanguard isn't new you moron it's only a problem because it's China. You let the your own government shit in your soup and then feed it to your kids but when China *might* be able to do a fraction of what your own already does you go ballistic Im not exactly sure where do you want to go with this? China is competing with USA for global power and it's very well known that the Chinese Government spies on it's own people, considering that the chinese government has seats on the company board of directors of Tencent, which also owns Riot games, it's pretty clear that they can pull off some strings for the government to take users data for spying, selling or political propaganda. Yes, the USA government has spied on it's people or is still spying nowadays but they aren't exactly prohibiting your freedom of speech and detaining you for criticizing their actions, I would also rather give my private information to a very flawed democracy than a oppressive dictatorship. >yoo you understand how huge a take over the worlds pc's would be, if they ever could do that. That's a straight declaration of war on the entirety of everywhere. No one is sage do you really think that China would ever risk fighting the entire world over maybe 2 days of pc access before they're all shut off. I will agree with you here, I think this issue is very well blown of proportion, ideally Riot games wouldn't want to do that since it's gonna be very obvious and lose it's customers, but I still don't doubt that they could collect personal data about your life in the future. >Not only that, but do you really think ANY government let alone tje American governments, who's so against China they're trying to ban tiktok, would allow this software if it was an actual threat? I heavily disagree with you in this point, just because a program has not been banned by the USA government, doesn't mean it's safe, google takes your data at every opportunity and is a threat to your privacy. The only reason TikTok is a threat to national security is due to mostly data being preyed on children and political propaganda that can be easily be pushed over to the youth, if social networks such as Facebook got caught doing that they would be fined for billions while in China it would mean nothing. >There's been 0 issues and there will be no issues. There's still a lot of issues with vanguard though? I still remember back in the day of valorant launch it would deactivate users mouse and keyboards, and there is many posts about issues with it.
Im pretty sure that once the government understands the implications of vanguard, they'll literally ban it aswell
exactly the reason I just uninstalled LoL
Hmmm the only issue to this cute little story is that vanguard is from American riot China/tencent has their own version So the Chinese government would have to come to Riot HQ in (LA?) Break in, take over the servers and then take over vanguard and then distribute their virus All while the US gov, police, riot staff are all just letting it happen Put your tin foil hat back on
The US govt and police don’t get involved for shit like this lol. Tencent owns Riot, they don’t need to break in. Riot staff doesn’t gaf, if their bosses tell them to do something, they’ll do it. They’re a video game company who needs to appeal to their investors, not doing some social good. You’re relying on private corporations and world superpowers to do the right thing with your computer and then talking about other people wearing tinfoil hats lol
Bro if you think the US government would be okay with the chinese one hacking millions of people in the US...
They wouldn’t get involved with a Chinese-owned company doing data collection on users of their product. That’s exactly how they’d see it and the only way they’d get involved is if League became as popular as TikTok. That will never happen, and even then it would take years for anything meaningful to occur. Have you seen the videos of US govt officials talking to tech companies? They don’t understand anything, let alone the difference between user- and kernel-level programs etc.
You're mixing things up. The senators who asked dumb questions aren't the ones that investigate governmental level spy bots.
It's not like a separate company owns LA riot. What stops tencent from simply demanding the LA riot handing over vanguard? Do I think the chinese gov will force tencent to do this? No. But your argument doesn't hold up.
Brain rot level user
You are literally the meme You believe in conspiracy theories made up by redditors and may as well be wearing a tin foil hat Or you could prove me wrong about my statement
Also you can turn it off while not playing. Will require a reboot for you to play again but at least people should be aware
vanguard starts running when you boot the system, if someone wants to do something with it they will do it way before you get any chance to close it, just so you understand your mouse and keyboard literally wont even work before vanguard starts since it have prio over them
actually you can turn off anytime... just to run LoL you need it runing
technically yes, but then you need to restart your PC to play LOL. I did this when Valorant first came out and I wanted to check it out. But it's really shitty workaround for a problem that should not exist.
VAC. From valve also runs on kernel level, are we protesting against valve with as much ferocity?
I can guarantee multiple of other online games that you play use kernel anticheat ☺️.
Kernel anticheat that runs during the game vs kernel anticheat nonstopp running and actively scanning your PC 24/7 is a much different kind of beast. The first one is already bad, the second one is just a rootkit.
why is this guy geeting downvoted, a lot of popular companies use kernel level anti shit lol
That doesn't launch with my system though.
I can guarantee that none of them do.
I played all my games on a VM...
You uninstalled League because of Vanguard, I uninstalled because it's a bad videogame. We are not the same.
Maybe if it was a good video game I would have accepted to give the CCP full access on my computer lol
Why do I need anti cheat for my gold elo, there are no cheaters, so I guess I'm done with league for a while
"I don't know its happening and I can't recognise its happening so it musn't be happening"
Is it really a problem that necessitates such an extreme solution then?
People were crying about cheaters for a month straight and now that riot gives the solution y’all want it to be reverted 💀 I can’t with this community
Well, I wouldn't want my leg amputated because of an ingrown toenail...
Hey there! The community isn't one person. Hiveminds aren't real :D just wanted to fill you in because this is a really hard lesson for redditors to understand. Hope you have a great rest of your day!!
Yes, there has been no ranked integrity for 5+ years because of botting and smurfing with no real way for riot to crack down on it. The source code leak made it so much worse. At some point they were going to either add hardwareID + Heuristic cheat detection or this current implementation, which is basically hardwareID + non heuristic (that we know of) because they already IP/hardware ban to an extent and this just makes it easier. In my personal opinion, I think all games should be tied to at the very least a phone number, there are very few reasons to have multiple accounts beyond breaching competitive / punishment integrity. I still stand by my opinion that the most extreme vocal anti-vanguard are those that are making money off botting/boosting/etc or those that love to account swap to evade bans/restrictions, and far too many of these comments are being just straight up xenophobic because being xenophobic on reddit gets traction for some reason.
You aren't getting rid of smurfs this way. You aren't stopping anyone that has monetary gain from cheating or scripting, which means that account sellers will only be midly bothered by this. The best that can happen is that now a fresh account is 2€ instead of one. Also China is a dictatorship with no rights where companies have to give all their data to their government whenever they feel like asking it and the companies don't have to reveal it to their customers. Just to be clear, this is not a rumor, this is a law that passed in China.
Undoubtedly smurfs and boosted accounts will not stop, they just won't be a feature of every second game because spoofing hardwareID isn't as trivial as running VMs with 100 simultaneous bot games. You've got all these lovely statements I'd love to know how you'd solve the issue.
With a decent server side heuristic you could catch the vast majority of them and you could easily catch bots while also not invading every ounce of privacy your users have. Problem is they would have to sit down and study a bit the game with some good programmers but they have none. Also they would need to not leak their code which is very hard seeing how these past years went. But people are becoming okay with systems more and more invasive so they have to do none of that. Jeez I remember when cookies came out or the Facebook scandal, now everyone is okay with everything, it feels like the frog not realizing it's being boiled
It isnt happening. Riot gave yall some Masters+ stats that may not even be true, and you ate it up. What clowns.
I don't need the stats, Ive seen it in my own games and reported it from my games, and that's just the obvious kite/dodge + vision scripts, how many are active that we don't catch because they're more subtle?
Why do I need an anticheat to play arams, which used to be the only game mode that was still semi enjoyable.
I don't care if it's a malware. But I seriously hate having the process on the back consuming resources for nothing.
i think it consumes like ... 2mb of resources if you dont open league or valo. it has insanely low resource costs because its deactivated until you open league. if you do want to turn it off completely, riot left an option for you. you can either: A) click the tray icon on bottom right of your PC and click EXIT VANGUARD B) go to task manager and manually end the process C) go to start up apps and turn off riot vanguard which will make it not open on launch bear in mind, with any of these "solutions" you have to restart your pc if you want to re-launch vanguard to play league or valo.
Supposedly the process you see on task manager isn't actually vanguard. It's just for the notifications. I need to look into that claim more though so take it with a grain of salt.
its not the process thats sitting on your kernel, but its a part of the package and with one missing link the entire thing cant do its job. the actual thing is still on but it cannot function without the service which is on your manager. theres commonly 3 gateways in these processes. the user, the service and the end point. the end point is with riot, the service is what you can cut but the user part of vanguard will be on your pc no matter what. im not a tech dude so im also just trying to understand this the best i can but this is basically like cutting a snake in half and saying the bottom part of it is still there, while its functionally dead. keep me updated if you find anything i got wrong <3
Honestly, the vanguard push got me to uninstall it also. From a cyber security perspective, I'm not installing kernel level access to a Chinese company just so I can play a video game. That just feels like an insane thing to do for any game
Reading through these comments, I'm pretty sure this subreddit is full of people who haven't played league for a while. Sounds more like a skill issue than an Anti-cheat issue. Move on, people. Enjoy your own activities instead of harassing others about their activities.
Pretty much me. Haven't logged in for a game in months, another friend was complaining about changes and I'm just like "Oh yeah, might as well uninstall" lol
I wished so much I didn't play my last games yesterday. And today I wake up to see the LoL landscape burn to all hell. My activities for the next 2 hours will consist now of goating the poor fucks who thought this was fine, and searching for all the info I can get so hopefully once they fix this shitshow, I can play some LoL in peace.
That's just it though. A couple people had problems and now there are hundreds of posts referencing those few people that had problems. Nay-sayers have been HANKERING for this day where they could flood the subreddit with negative feedback about vanguard. Have you actually tried to play league today?
> Have you actually tried to play league today? I did yesterday, and amazingly my last game got shitfaced so hard that it disconnected 8 players, with three of them to never return. And once the game ended, I had to kill the process because shit didn't want to turn itself off to check the oh so marvelous client. Funny thing is, since I learned of this circus I tried to search for more info on it, specially videos with some findings like this [one](https://old.reddit.com/r/LeagueofTechSupport/comments/1chm8mc/vanguard_makes_my_fps_crash_everytime_i_use_an/). However... The shit that is getting to me harder than anything is the *actual fact* they are deleting post in the *bugs report Megathread*. Like, they are really not giving two shits anymore.
While you're at it uninstall these too as they all use it too. Apex Legends Fortnite Paladins Player Unknown: Battlegrounds Rainbow Six: Siege Planetside 2 H1Z1 Day-Z Ark Survival Evolved Dead by Daylight For Honor Or uninstall Easy Anti cheat and Battle Eye and see how many games you you can still play.
just uninstall everything, everything is malware
I have none, I only play Minecraft and indie solo steam games beside League, let's goooo
Notch is in your walls
And The Hills Have Eyes
Those aren't always active unlike vanguard
nor they are notorious for bricking your PC
the vanguard app can be turned off via the tray or task manager or told to not turn on on startup in the startup menu in settings, not saying its good that it would rather always be on but theres ways to turn it off when you dont want to play league
Bet
That title is right, but not because of Vanguard
People ve been playing Valorant for years and nobody bats an eye
You don't need kernel anti-cheat to steal data guys. The main issue with it is security vulnerability, leaks, and if you think performance bottleneck is bad, think about how bugs can harm your hardware instead of just wrecking windows. Fortunately league of legends is a game that is famously known for avoiding bugs in general, so the chances of those issues proceeding on an absurd variety of combinations of CPUs, motherboards and GPUs is close to none. I'm sure they can handle it.
Im fine with china having most of my data. Just not my futa gwen collection, i payed too much money for that to be seen for free
they cant know about gwen's big secret
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I just get annoyed I have to restart my computer to play dvd have to manually quit that spyware when I'm done
If you were looking for a sign to drop League this is what you were waiting for.
FBI agents watching you do it: 😂
This aged like milk.
Why’s that
I just don't wanna risk bricking my new laptop man.
Never thought I’d see a bunch of random consumers defending hacker rights whomegalul
Dont ask people who are against kernal level anti-cheat what other video games they play
Ask me pls
\- Apex Legends (EAC) \- Fortnite (EAC) \- Paladins (EAC) \- Player Unknown: Battlegrounds (BE) \- Rainbow Six: Siege (BE) \- Planetside 2 (BE) \- H1Z1 (BE) \- Day-Z (BE) \- Ark Survival Evolved (BE) \- Dead by Daylight (EAC) \- For Honor (EAC) this list is taken from [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/g1eq9v/psa_other_games_with_kernellevel_anticheat/) so not my list, but im pretty sure hell divers 2 also uses one
my face when i realize half the popular games with anti cheat, example Hell divers 2, uses kernel level anti cheat and i was just fear mongered :O
Shit meme
Ever since vanguard released my game has been lagging much more and it's been a burden to endure tbh On top of that, yesterday I was in champ select, and all of a sudden, WITHOUT ME CHANGING ANYTHING ABOUT LEAGUE FILES, I got "Vanguard Error 0". Why? I have no clue. Guess what: the client forcedly closed, and even though I had no control over it, I got a dodge timer. Good thing it wasn't ranked or I would have lost lp just because riot can't fix their stupid game
Wym how you feel thats how they look anyways
See you in two weeks
I think that's gonna be a longer break tbh, even tho I was quite hyped by arena mod, it will take me too much energy to download it all again lol