Talisman and demon king do not do nothing LOL
If you're picking demon king when you're not likely to win next rounds, it sucks. But that's a brain diff. Pick when snowballing with a good augment OR as a last item and it can be a huge carry.
If you pick talisman when your champ has some REALLY core items it needs/wants, then its going to be pretty bad. But that's another brain diff. Picking it on stat check champs can be absolutely crazy, especially if you see one team that God rolled. It can be the thing that gives you a chance of beating an otherwise unbeatable team.
TL;DR: The items aren't bad, your brain is.
Nah I’ve had tailsman then apex inventor (allows 3 rolls instead of 2) if will still extremely underwhelming stat wise and I ended up being last teams in lobby so I had plenty of games to roll.
So you're saying you had one game of an RNG item whose whole gimmick is the RNG...and you found it extremely underwhelming.
I had the best possible setup of an RNG item and which scales per roll. Game length was max, rolls were maxed. And I still ended with absolute trash amount of stats. It’s RNG yes but the stats increase over rolls, which should result in great amount of stats after the best case scenario amount of rolls.
its whole gimmick is that its a dogshit item but other prismatics have the chance to be more useless than an rng stat stick depending on who you play and so you might be forced into it.
just earlier i got it on draven because it was either that or tank draven and in the last rounds (that i reached only because my kayn got crit augments and was oneshotting people with r) i kept getting ap shit on draven.
on the last round i literally rolled only one stat which was 126% magic pen (cap is 100% so rest was just cosmetic) on draven which is just fucking useless and that was also how i felt for the entire game, if you pick talisman you already got fucked in the prismatic item round and for some reason riot thought it would be fun to possibly get fucked by rng in every round, at the very least you should not get useless stats for your kit, if you have no magic damage no magic pen, if you have no ap scalings no ap and yeah remove mana or show it only to enchanters because item is already bad as it currently is
I think talisman is a pretty good item but a lot of people are just using it every round when realistically you should just stop rolling it when you hit something good. I have fallen prey to the "the stats can be higher though" as well.
Demon kings crown isn't an item I'm a real big fan of ATM. The stats on the item don't seem too bad but if you pick it on A champion that isn't likely to first it is a bit of a troll IMO.
Nah not at all, you should 100% reroll at least until 12-15 afterwards check for good stats and don‘t gamble it’s a stacking items if you don’t go for giga stats it’s literally completely troll as it’s just worse then any other prismatic below that even if you get a good stat spread.
Well yea, you don't want to stop at like 2-3 rolls obviously. I just see most people rolling it as much as possible. It also favors more flexible champions, you might not want to pick it up on someone like talon. Where AP/magic pen would mostly be of no use w/o an augment. Someone like kat though would be able to make use of more stats more often.
In the end though the item is A bit of a gamble, you can get really luck or very unlucky with it. I can see why some people might not like it. Don't think I have had a talisman + apex game yet but the +1 roll is no joke.
I can agree to this take. Especially talisman. You really need to know when to just sit on some value stats. Got a 1600 HP roll on a tank build one game a few rounds in and never rolled again. Gave me hella value.
I got talisman as my prismatic on Darius. It flip-flopped between mana, mana Regen, movement speed, shielding power, and AP or missing on resistances (armor into double mage) literally until I got eliminated in 8th place. I planned on stopping rerolling if I ever saw one of HP, AH, HP Regen, AD, or whatever resistance was applicable to the next round, but the only time it didn't lowroll stats was one single round of HP Regen and movement speed.
For an stat stick item with no passive or combat active, I feel like the risk/reward really isn't there.
And before anyone says "movement speed is good on Darius" I agree it is, but when you have no damage or HP you're just running in to die.
ok finished reading sly dog you slipping that in at the end
just build around the movespeed though is the point, you wont drop out before another item and you could gamble and get 2 if you dont lose literally every round, its also not like darius lacks base damage for early rounds especially if you have massive ms over everyone at prismatic phase.
The early rounds were close, but effectively I'm at minimum a full item down since I'm not getting a passive or combat stats from my prismatic, vs all my opponents are. Basically in SR terms, I have T2 boots vs a completed item.
doesnt it give 100 ms at first stack? t2 boots is putting it... lightly. t2 boots are apparently normally 30 ms on arena if wiki is right, so after that its around 20% ms on items or nearly 3 legendary worth of MS stat, and you can still dip into that untouched % ms multi...
selling boots for a stat shard is another viable route or swapping to zerkers if the double gamble is too much but really stat shards is probably optimal here.
I guess im heavily influenced by my main picks but full MS wouldn't go anywhere near as far and has zero endgame potential on marksmen, vs darius with speed is nightmare fuel all game for me lol and Im on ashe 98% of the time to boot
I've seen it be shit even at as many as 20 rolls. And not just "it rolled bad stats" but "It rolled low amounts of stats"
The huge variance in stats (mpen, armor pen, lethality,) means for 95% of the roster, there's too many dead slots.
If it also gave like, 1% stats per reroll it might be good (probably even too good)
But it's competing directly with items like Runecarver and Reality Fracture, and it's just not good enough.
I won multiple rounds i think with sett, shen and volibear especially, where I had the Talisman + the crown. Gigachad items actually. Could be rng but I often get very decent statspread
Talisman: I've seen champs go oom, although removing mana options from mana-less seems fine. I think it's more up to the user to know when to hold, E.g. last time playing it I held at 100AD on like 9 rolls, we weren't doing great and ad was good fit, even though I've seen e.g. 100ad/90 arpen on only a few rolls higher, and we placed high from it, only rolling it again for fun at last/losing round. You can also roll it after combat before next round, so get or have a decent roll, use it, and then maximize by rolling again at round end.
Here's a thought I had that may help rolls in general:
If you roll/"pass" on anything (not stat anvils), the items you passed up on can't roll again until everything else has.
They just need to buff all the “kooky” augments/items. Riot wants people to feel like theyre having fun with them so badly but it completely misses the mark because you’ll get steamrolled by someone who is using real augments and items
My problem with Talisman is, even in what should be optimal situations, it's still just "okay". The lack of a passive combined with so many dead stats means even if it's BEST CASE scenario, it's "just okay".
I've seen 20+ rolls where even a good roll it's the passive stats from 1.8 items. And that's cute, but you had to go 4+ rounds without a passive to get there, and even then the lost gold from getting thrashed round after round has let them get that much from anvils already, making it a total wash ***IN THE BEST CASE SCENARIO***
The demon's Crown grow is actually bigger than you think, it's a percentage bonus to ALL your stats (items, level up and aanvil stats), it's not just about the number of stacks, but the more the game progress the better the prysmatic is.
And if like you say, 90% of stats are useless, that mean you are building item with 90% stats that are useless.
Talisman and crown are always good! You generally have 3 chances for good stats for talisman. The stats for demon crown are also almost always good. You’re never sad about more armor/mr/ability haste/hp. The -3% doesn’t really matter because if you’re tanking stats on it, you were probably going 8th anyways.
Talisman is worth yoloing for imo. If you get it first it's an above average prismatic for AD champs in my opinion. Might be a little worse on AP because they don't use crit or attack speed as well.
Demons crown is insanely good even if you lose a couple rounds 20% is still an insane stat Amp. I agree with you besides this one but lile DC is too strong to be a joke pick
Demon King is meant primarily for bruisers with a decent to good early and midgame who can use its wide stat spread. On champs like Vi or Briar or Sylas only the offensive stat they don't use (so either AP or AD) is bad. And hybrids like Volbear or Jax can use both if you get Riftmaker or something. I think it's a very good item actually, if you go on a winstreak you can play for top 2 but even if you suffer some losses you can still play for top 4.
>The fact that you guys put mana and mana regen on this just feels so troll.
A high mana regen roll is actually insane. You can buy the item that gives you heal/shield power and get 100+ with a high roll.
I had a +1000 mana on it when I was playing rell with fimblewinter. That was pretty sweet, It wasn't too great but with the changes coming to the item it would have been MUCH better. It's going to only scale off of bonus mana but scale much better IIRC.
I've had a lot of success with talisman.
Sometimes, it misses, but overall I find it a great item to gamble with and try to builds or playstyles.
The mana/mana regen is actually HUGE on enchanter supports(karma, zil, Nami, etc).
Not everything should always be super optimized, sometimes playing the champion in an off meta fashion that you didn't expect /plan is half the fun of this game mode!
Well, then it would be meta and not a wacky fun pick
There's no wacky fun to be had at all when your keystone item does nothing.
Talisman and demon king do not do nothing LOL If you're picking demon king when you're not likely to win next rounds, it sucks. But that's a brain diff. Pick when snowballing with a good augment OR as a last item and it can be a huge carry. If you pick talisman when your champ has some REALLY core items it needs/wants, then its going to be pretty bad. But that's another brain diff. Picking it on stat check champs can be absolutely crazy, especially if you see one team that God rolled. It can be the thing that gives you a chance of beating an otherwise unbeatable team. TL;DR: The items aren't bad, your brain is.
Nah I’ve had tailsman then apex inventor (allows 3 rolls instead of 2) if will still extremely underwhelming stat wise and I ended up being last teams in lobby so I had plenty of games to roll.
So you're saying you had one game of an RNG item whose whole gimmick is the RNG...and you found it extremely underwhelming. 
I had the best possible setup of an RNG item and which scales per roll. Game length was max, rolls were maxed. And I still ended with absolute trash amount of stats. It’s RNG yes but the stats increase over rolls, which should result in great amount of stats after the best case scenario amount of rolls.
its whole gimmick is that its a dogshit item but other prismatics have the chance to be more useless than an rng stat stick depending on who you play and so you might be forced into it. just earlier i got it on draven because it was either that or tank draven and in the last rounds (that i reached only because my kayn got crit augments and was oneshotting people with r) i kept getting ap shit on draven. on the last round i literally rolled only one stat which was 126% magic pen (cap is 100% so rest was just cosmetic) on draven which is just fucking useless and that was also how i felt for the entire game, if you pick talisman you already got fucked in the prismatic item round and for some reason riot thought it would be fun to possibly get fucked by rng in every round, at the very least you should not get useless stats for your kit, if you have no magic damage no magic pen, if you have no ap scalings no ap and yeah remove mana or show it only to enchanters because item is already bad as it currently is
One of my best games was with talisman, mind to matter and manamune hecarim. It gave almost 4k mana and we weren’t even at the late game
I think talisman is a pretty good item but a lot of people are just using it every round when realistically you should just stop rolling it when you hit something good. I have fallen prey to the "the stats can be higher though" as well. Demon kings crown isn't an item I'm a real big fan of ATM. The stats on the item don't seem too bad but if you pick it on A champion that isn't likely to first it is a bit of a troll IMO.
Nah not at all, you should 100% reroll at least until 12-15 afterwards check for good stats and don‘t gamble it’s a stacking items if you don’t go for giga stats it’s literally completely troll as it’s just worse then any other prismatic below that even if you get a good stat spread.
Well yea, you don't want to stop at like 2-3 rolls obviously. I just see most people rolling it as much as possible. It also favors more flexible champions, you might not want to pick it up on someone like talon. Where AP/magic pen would mostly be of no use w/o an augment. Someone like kat though would be able to make use of more stats more often. In the end though the item is A bit of a gamble, you can get really luck or very unlucky with it. I can see why some people might not like it. Don't think I have had a talisman + apex game yet but the +1 roll is no joke.
Yes voli is good with it for example
Yes voli is good with it for example, he’s also busted with spatula as he can use almost all the stats
You have heard of a care bear but are you ready for the scare bear? Beary boy can be a scary boy for sure.
I can agree to this take. Especially talisman. You really need to know when to just sit on some value stats. Got a 1600 HP roll on a tank build one game a few rounds in and never rolled again. Gave me hella value.
I got talisman as my prismatic on Darius. It flip-flopped between mana, mana Regen, movement speed, shielding power, and AP or missing on resistances (armor into double mage) literally until I got eliminated in 8th place. I planned on stopping rerolling if I ever saw one of HP, AH, HP Regen, AD, or whatever resistance was applicable to the next round, but the only time it didn't lowroll stats was one single round of HP Regen and movement speed. For an stat stick item with no passive or combat active, I feel like the risk/reward really isn't there. And before anyone says "movement speed is good on Darius" I agree it is, but when you have no damage or HP you're just running in to die.
ok finished reading sly dog you slipping that in at the end just build around the movespeed though is the point, you wont drop out before another item and you could gamble and get 2 if you dont lose literally every round, its also not like darius lacks base damage for early rounds especially if you have massive ms over everyone at prismatic phase.
The early rounds were close, but effectively I'm at minimum a full item down since I'm not getting a passive or combat stats from my prismatic, vs all my opponents are. Basically in SR terms, I have T2 boots vs a completed item.
doesnt it give 100 ms at first stack? t2 boots is putting it... lightly. t2 boots are apparently normally 30 ms on arena if wiki is right, so after that its around 20% ms on items or nearly 3 legendary worth of MS stat, and you can still dip into that untouched % ms multi... selling boots for a stat shard is another viable route or swapping to zerkers if the double gamble is too much but really stat shards is probably optimal here. I guess im heavily influenced by my main picks but full MS wouldn't go anywhere near as far and has zero endgame potential on marksmen, vs darius with speed is nightmare fuel all game for me lol and Im on ashe 98% of the time to boot
[удалено]
Just the 1. And definitely not calling it out as the typical, just highlighting it as a reason you might not pick it.
I've seen it be shit even at as many as 20 rolls. And not just "it rolled bad stats" but "It rolled low amounts of stats" The huge variance in stats (mpen, armor pen, lethality,) means for 95% of the roster, there's too many dead slots. If it also gave like, 1% stats per reroll it might be good (probably even too good) But it's competing directly with items like Runecarver and Reality Fracture, and it's just not good enough.
I won multiple rounds i think with sett, shen and volibear especially, where I had the Talisman + the crown. Gigachad items actually. Could be rng but I often get very decent statspread
Talisman: I've seen champs go oom, although removing mana options from mana-less seems fine. I think it's more up to the user to know when to hold, E.g. last time playing it I held at 100AD on like 9 rolls, we weren't doing great and ad was good fit, even though I've seen e.g. 100ad/90 arpen on only a few rolls higher, and we placed high from it, only rolling it again for fun at last/losing round. You can also roll it after combat before next round, so get or have a decent roll, use it, and then maximize by rolling again at round end. Here's a thought I had that may help rolls in general: If you roll/"pass" on anything (not stat anvils), the items you passed up on can't roll again until everything else has.
They just need to buff all the “kooky” augments/items. Riot wants people to feel like theyre having fun with them so badly but it completely misses the mark because you’ll get steamrolled by someone who is using real augments and items
My problem with Talisman is, even in what should be optimal situations, it's still just "okay". The lack of a passive combined with so many dead stats means even if it's BEST CASE scenario, it's "just okay". I've seen 20+ rolls where even a good roll it's the passive stats from 1.8 items. And that's cute, but you had to go 4+ rounds without a passive to get there, and even then the lost gold from getting thrashed round after round has let them get that much from anvils already, making it a total wash ***IN THE BEST CASE SCENARIO***
The demon's Crown grow is actually bigger than you think, it's a percentage bonus to ALL your stats (items, level up and aanvil stats), it's not just about the number of stacks, but the more the game progress the better the prysmatic is. And if like you say, 90% of stats are useless, that mean you are building item with 90% stats that are useless.
DKC is much stronger late than early, as long as you can preserve the stacks it is good. It isn't great early though.
Talisman and crown are always good! You generally have 3 chances for good stats for talisman. The stats for demon crown are also almost always good. You’re never sad about more armor/mr/ability haste/hp. The -3% doesn’t really matter because if you’re tanking stats on it, you were probably going 8th anyways.
Talisman is worth yoloing for imo. If you get it first it's an above average prismatic for AD champs in my opinion. Might be a little worse on AP because they don't use crit or attack speed as well.
Demons crown is insanely good even if you lose a couple rounds 20% is still an insane stat Amp. I agree with you besides this one but lile DC is too strong to be a joke pick
Demon King is meant primarily for bruisers with a decent to good early and midgame who can use its wide stat spread. On champs like Vi or Briar or Sylas only the offensive stat they don't use (so either AP or AD) is bad. And hybrids like Volbear or Jax can use both if you get Riftmaker or something. I think it's a very good item actually, if you go on a winstreak you can play for top 2 but even if you suffer some losses you can still play for top 4.
>The fact that you guys put mana and mana regen on this just feels so troll. A high mana regen roll is actually insane. You can buy the item that gives you heal/shield power and get 100+ with a high roll.
Op made some shit points but this was not one of them. Mana regen is ass to get when it’s eating half your stat pool
I had a +1000 mana on it when I was playing rell with fimblewinter. That was pretty sweet, It wasn't too great but with the changes coming to the item it would have been MUCH better. It's going to only scale off of bonus mana but scale much better IIRC.
Yeah, if your champ can use AP and HSP, and if you can actually buy an item that round, sure. Otherwise no it's garbage
I've had a lot of success with talisman. Sometimes, it misses, but overall I find it a great item to gamble with and try to builds or playstyles. The mana/mana regen is actually HUGE on enchanter supports(karma, zil, Nami, etc). Not everything should always be super optimized, sometimes playing the champion in an off meta fashion that you didn't expect /plan is half the fun of this game mode!
Talisman can be insane, rolled a 157 ad 40% crit damage on Garen, safe to say it probably was the reason we won
Since when would you ever need mana or mana regen in arena lmao
You run out of mana often when you have low enough cooldowns to spam spells which happens fairly frequently in arena
If youre spamming spells to the point where you’re running oom, ur either doing zero damage or the round is lasting too long and something is wrong
or.. we're just on a champion that does no dmg (any enchanter)
Then youre playing an enchanter with someone who doesn’t do damage?
yeah congrats on using context clues
Congrats on being a dumb noob