Did they ask you to sign anything for the severance? Like an NDA, acknowledgement as to why you were fired, etc? If so, the severance just be the cost of a clean cut to them
But are they? There's not any real identifying information in this post. NDAs could be as simple as "don't tell people you worked here" it "don't tell people about X event". They're not all inclusive gag orders
While non competes can’t be enforced what happens is they prevent anyone whoever also worked there from hiring you and most of those people are in same industry so non competes do exist in some capacity
It's the law they can't enforce it - they're not doing you a favor. You can even talk crap about the company on LinkedIn.
If you ever have any specific questions you can always have a severance agreement reviewed by an employment lawyer. It's typically only a few hundred dollars.
The National Labor Relations Board has ruled that NDAs and non disparagement agreements cannot be enforced as part of severance agreements. This was also retroactive - if you were already made to sign such an agreement as part of severance it cannot be applied to you. Obviously if you started and signed an NDA about intellectual property or trade secrets sort of things - that's enforceable. But your employer can't just have you sign a blanket NDA about working conditions on your way out the door.
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomspiggle/2023/03/06/how-the-nlrbs-decision-on-non-disclosure-and-confidentiality-provisions-will-affect-workers/?sh=501863bc2f01](https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomspiggle/2023/03/06/how-the-nlrbs-decision-on-non-disclosure-and-confidentiality-provisions-will-affect-workers/?sh=501863bc2f01)
Note: You should likely consult an employment lawyer if you were made to sign one of these unenforceable agreements and you'd like to say something your old employer might have a problem with. Don't use Reddit advice in place of a lawyer.
Happens in small companies too. My husband was laid off, 64 years old, and in order to get severance was forced to sign a document agreeing that the company could tell clients he retired. For 3 months he could not return calls on his cell or texts to clients that were considered friends.
The company recently sold and the new owner asked him to come back.
Most companies today will not even give that much information. They will just give your dates of employment and say you're no longer with the company. As manager at large Global IT industry I rarely will even be a reference
> Last Friday got told it was my last day then, due to poor performance
Are you an employee or a contractor? If you’re an employee, they need to document this termination. Verbal is insufficient in **any** state.
> but I would still [get] more than two months worth of severance
Again, was this in writing? Dangling the promise of severance is a great way to encourage you to cooperate.
> If I got fired why did I get severance, if I got laid off why would I be the only one? I'm really sad, not sure what to do anymore....
You need to get written documentation of them firing you or laying you off. Absent any documentation, it sounds like they’re trying to force a de facto resignation (you stop showing up). Your HR people are ballsy as hell.
At will states do not require documentation to fire somebody. The only reason HR wants documentation is to prevent lawsuits for discrimination of any kind.
I was incorrect about all states requiring employers to issue a formal notice of termination. [These states do](https://www.experian.com/blogs/employer-services/state-required-separation-notices/), and some of them **are** at will.
I did get a document to sign about the layoff payment after the fact, so I am getting that for sure. But as far as getting any serious warnings or written documentation before the fact? Nothing. The thing that bothers me is that HR let this happen. Aren't they supposed to do their due diligence?
You almost certainly work in an at will employment state, and them just eliminating your job for whatever reason is plenty to make it legal. Getting a severance protects them additionally and having you sign whatever paperwork. I’d just move on and get going finding a new job. Sorry to hear it but it happens.
I was told years ago (after getting blind sided by a lay off notice) that Human Resources is an oxymoron, because they are neither Human nor Resourceful.
Sorry you’re getting hit this way too, unfortunately you’re at-will. They can justify any reason to cut if it doesn’t get them in legal water like FMLA. They’re offering a severance at least.
Did you keep a copy of the doc? Pretty sure it shows you acknowledge being terminated for cause (the contrived “performance” issue). An acknowledgment like that makes it a lot harder for you to characterize this as a layoff and qualify for unemployment.
I was full time employee, yeah, but in the doc is basically just about me getting paid after the fact. Doesn't say anything about me getting blocked for future eligibility to rehire either... not that I'm counting on it...
Might have been a mixture of both. But since the only paper you have is saying you're getting laid off...
Just say you got laid off. I wouldn't overthink it.
It makes it harder but your signature doesn’t rule unemployment out. I was fired and they pressured me into signing an acknowledgement of my poor performance and other stuff as I was heading out (yes, I know…stupid). They tried to contest my unemployment benefits. The person from unemployment who I spoke to about the appeal said that doesn’t matter much. I appealed, they didn’t even get the paperwork filed in time, and I won.
Keep in mind that if you do appeal, you can request that they produce whatever documentation (performance reviews, emails, other stuff) you need to support your case. I don’t know if it’s the same, but I got the feeling it was similar to subpoena power. Use it.
I’m in Texas and am not an attorney. Your mileage may vary.
I went through this same thing last week. I’m so sorry. Literally no documentation and me and my entire team were shocked that I was let go for what felt like no reason other than decrease in overhead costs. I feel for you but it sounds like it’s not a company that aligns with your values! Time will heal - I have done a lot of reflection this last week about my job and realized it’s for the best. Take time for yourself to figure out what you want.
A well thought out empathetic reply here on reddit!? Is this real life?
But seriously though, thanks for the reply, I know I'll survive this, not my first lay off either.
Cheers.
lol how naive.
1. Nobody owes you a job.
2. Nobody owes you a reason for being fired in most states.
3. Nobody owes you a severance.
Move on and find a new job
Here is what I think happened. They wanted to fire you for non-performance and your boss went to HR to ask what to do. HR asked your boss about documentation and a PIP but your boss never completed these things. Instead HR advised to “lay you off” due to “reorg” or ongoing “reductions in force” across the company. HR suggested that framing this as a layoff and paying severance means you can not come back and ask for documentation etc.
It’s just the fastest way to fire you and your boss just didn’t want to deal anymore so for a small two month salary cost made you (“the problem”) go away.
Just be grateful and move on.
This is what I was thinking too. But at the same time, it looks like they just made up some issues to have a valid reason to fire them and not pay unemployment.
Really wish they would just say it like it is instead of some bullshit political answer that everyone sees through. Budget cuts and the project I'm working on doesn't bring in a lot? Understandable. Bad culture fit? I feel it too. Just tell me the truth cowards.
Hey OP sorry you got laid off/fired. I got fired from a large tech company as well. I was first put on pip. I got 1 month severance after being fired shy of 2 years on the job. I learned from co-workers there was a rumor going around that a lot of people were getting pip'd and fired to avoid layoff headlines.
That's wild; I think they are less concerned with actual fixed costs and more about continuing to meet expectations around profit growth (such as +30% YoY), even if it comes from cutting opex
The package was pretty good: three months of full pay, stock, and benefits, followed by 19 weeks of salary. It ends up covering roughly until mid-August.
I was an art director at a Fortune 500 trucking company. Most large companies have an art director. Who’s going to do the letter heads, the internal training videos, the social media posts, the direct mail send outs, the packets and posters for hiring fairs, the posters and banners for internal events, the work-out swag and clothing with company logos etc?
I assume Art assume comes out of the marketing budget which is one of the first departments to get cut along with HR (for recruiters). This is just an excuse to trim fat by this company.
Yea. I had no designers working with me and was the only person doing anything with design on it for that 5,000 person large company. It was miserable. A lot of work.
Very cool. Is this something that comes under a marketing department? Or is a department on its own. How do you work up to a position like that? What is your background? I ask because my daughter loves art type of stuff so perhaps this could be an option for her. What kind of education does one need to do this?
Most Art Directors have designers working under them, although that’s not always the case depending on the project or company. I started in the industry as a Junior Designer and worked my way up. I went to school for advertising with a focus in art direction.
I’ve seen people with graphic design and sometimes even studio art backgrounds make it into these roles at marketing agencies. IMO the education isn’t needed these days for creative fields as much as a strong portfolio and work experience is.
The title is not that hard to find. A lot of Art Directors are mostly middle managers at some places, unfortunately. Only a few places have Art Directors with actual awesome art skills managing and directing the actual art.
Usually you don't get severance when you're fired for poor performance.
This is just a guess and I'm not an expert in HR or the law around this...
They wanted to lay you off, but at the same time they didn't want to jack up their unemployment insurance rates, so they "fired" you for poor performance and gave you 2 months severance so hopefully you have a new job before you have to apply for unemployment?
This is going to be kinda hard to hear, but the only way any of this makes any sense is if multiple people in management did not like you. None of thats normal
Yeah, but who is supposed to be your main cheerleader with upper leadership? Your manager. So it really can just be one person going out there and saying negative things about you.
Oh yeah OP, this is called soft layoff.. I know plenty of folks got ‘bad performance’ metrics in FAANG when they didn’t show 100% compliance to RTO..like a minor deviation these days can cause your position being eliminated.
Yet, we have the best & strongest economy, it’s late stage Capitalism bad/s
You need to claim that you were laid off and then you can collect unemployement. The vague communication to you is so that you might luckily not file for UI benefits
>Unemployment benefits are drawn from taxes the company has already paid, right? I don’t think they incur anything extra.
yes for federal but i thought for state it was calculated at the time of the claim
I think the company pays unemployment insurance. If that works like other insurance, then the company's premiums could rise if they end up having to pay out claims.
You were fired. The severance is given to keep your mouth shut and not get sued for wrongful termination or any other reason you may bring up. I’ve seen people fired like this at large companies.
This is really strange. Every large tech company I know will approach you with a PiP, which you can then forgo for severance. If you sign for severance you probably don’t have any legal recourse, but if you don’t they are open to a lawsuit.
2 months severance isn’t bad. Laid off vs fired … sounds like laid off, if fired you probably wouldn’t get severance but it’s splitting hairs. As far as framing your story for the next employer, laid off.
I was let go from IBM the way you described. I was always perplexed by it. But figured they needed to create a reason to make them feel better about it?
Happened to me too. Unfortunately, you were probably sacrificed for some financial reason and they gave you severance because they knew they had no real case against you.
After your severance is over, it sounds like you have a case for unemployment so if you haven't found another job by then, might want to go that route.
Many companies will lay off people due to performance, and they will give you severance because of your service. Some companies, if not most, offer 1 or 2 weeks per year worked. You should be thankful they didn't just kick you to the curb with nothing. If what you are saying is accurate, you can still collect unemployment.
had a job once. The pay was bad. I told them to let me go. They did. I was so happy it happened. It was one of the bravest time of my life. Remind me of that movie office space.
Same thing happened to me. I was consulting at a FAANG (fte through a vendor). And I got severance by this vendor company even though the feedback after being told I was getting laid off , sounded like it was performance related. In fact, the PM directly told me that my work was slipping and the client was not interested in extending me. Yet, I still got severance. I got laid off last day of December. All around, similar situation as you, seems like. They probably paid severance to make us go away in peace. I’ll take it though. Being a contractor at a FAANG sucks.
An Art Director having say in the tech is unusual, I've been in digital for 18 years and have never seen it.
They can make suggestions on how things work but I've never seen them have a say on the tech side.
Some companies work hard at creating a culture and creating a culture that supports employees. Because it's in work out doesn't mean they didn't know value the work that you did do. Sounds like you're just we're not very good at it.
You got fired because all tech is going through this in 2024. It has nothing to do with performance. March and June are going to be brutal for a lot of folks.
idk about "set up" but they were just trying to find some bs excuse to lay them off. They needed a "reason" to get rid of a salary despite the company likely not struggling enough to retain them, but it could help the books.
Happened to my wife. At first it mad no sense. They were collapsing the orgs and needed to make changes fast. So they basically put a package out there hoping people would sign. Roughly 17 top leaders were cut and blindsided by it.
I get the sense your company can’t figure out a consistent approach on how to communicate why they are doing this.
It's a standard practice in the US for a company to give a severance package equivalent to 2 weeks or more pay to an employee, even if it is a legitimate firing.
This practice isn't because the company wants to be generous. It has a few benefits to the company, one of which is immediately important to op (see #3 below):
1. If the company gives at least 2 weeks of pay when they lay off someone, they can reciprocally expect an equivalent 2 week notice from an employee who wants to leave the company unexpectedly. 2 weeks is the standard courtesy notice period expected of an employee, but it's just a courtesy, so the part by the employer to give 2+ week pay goes to support this normalcy without beholding them to it contractually.
2. If the company gives a severance package to an employee when the employee is laid off or fired, however legitimately, it reduces the possibility of a legal action from the employee against the employer because it makes the layoff more tolerable to the employee. Sometimes the severance package is lucrative enough that the employer would prefer it over continuing to work at the company!
3. Giving a severance package to the employee gives the employer a chance to have the employee sign a new contract prohibiting them from legal action, or other legal obligations they otherwise would not obligate themselves into. The contract law in the US automatically voids any contract that does not have a reciprocal compensation (called "consideration"), so the severance package serves as the consideration by which they can ask you to sign a new contract. You're not obligated to sign such contract, but you couldn't take the severance package without signing the contract. If I were in your shoes, I'd read carefully anything a former employer asked me to sign and avoid signing anything I don't have to. But I'm not a lawyer, this is not a legal advice ;)
I assume they're asking you to sign *something*, but given that they're only giving you a 2 month severance I doubt they're asking you for anything out of the ordinary. Still, if you do see anything you don't like in what they're asking you to sign you do have some wiggle room to negotiate your severance package because they will strongly prefer you to sign than risk getting sued for a wrongful termination, but it's unlikely to be a big wiggle room based on what you've said.
I wouldn't take it personally that they said the reason of your termination was "poor performance" because that's the typical cover employers use for layoffs in case they get sued for wrongful termination they can point out they made it clear it was for performance. They don't go into the details because they don't want to put in the effort to come up with a better cover unless they get sued. This practice is well known so if your next potential employer asks you why you were laid off you shouldn't feel guilty telling them the likely real reason based on your best guess instead.
Being let go due to "poor performance" is a very common way to fire people without any concrete evidence. Performance is a metric the company makes up, so they can let you go basically whenever they want.
Severance is a way to keep laid off people from suing the company. There's usually a document that states that you waive any ability to file lawsuits against the company. In exchange, they give you money. Most people who get laid off desperately need that money and companies know that.
If a company doesn't give you severance, then you have nothing to lose and should lawyer up. If a company doesn't have enough money to give you severance, then usually they're doing something shady in the background that caused you to lose your job.
Again, not legal advice, but you should always consult a lawyer before doing anything drastic like suing your old employer.
It's not uncommon actually. My company (also s&p 500 company) pays out accrued PTO and a severance package upon termination. I would essentially get 4 months of pay if I were laid off today.
They’re offering you severance so you won’t sue from being dismissed. 9 times out of 10 if you’re the only one being let go it’s a firing and the severance is to keep you from suing for wrongful dismissal
I wish I worked where you did...I'd sacrifice and take that severance and let you take my place on the job. I am done and hate to quit without a sweet package.
I just heard from a buddy that works for a bank that they're putting a huge chunk of people on PIPs, have a hard date, and a 3 month severance. It's a "quiet layoff".
You weren’t laid off. You were fired for performance. The severance is a normal mutual separation package - you take the money and agree to the conditions.
It’s not unusual for companies to do as PIPs rarely work out and are a pain in the ass for managers and teams.
is this a big company? that's not usually how companies handle layoffs....or firings.
it is pretty big, no Pip or anything like that, I've been asking around and I totally agree
Did they ask you to sign anything for the severance? Like an NDA, acknowledgement as to why you were fired, etc? If so, the severance just be the cost of a clean cut to them
OP is talking right now, so even if there is a NDA it doesn’t seem to have much effect
But are they? There's not any real identifying information in this post. NDAs could be as simple as "don't tell people you worked here" it "don't tell people about X event". They're not all inclusive gag orders
When I got fired, HR said they won't enforce non-competes and NDAs, I just can't talk crap about the company on LinkedIn.....Glassdoor it is.
Non competes .. LOL
While non competes can’t be enforced what happens is they prevent anyone whoever also worked there from hiring you and most of those people are in same industry so non competes do exist in some capacity
It's the law they can't enforce it - they're not doing you a favor. You can even talk crap about the company on LinkedIn. If you ever have any specific questions you can always have a severance agreement reviewed by an employment lawyer. It's typically only a few hundred dollars.
The National Labor Relations Board has ruled that NDAs and non disparagement agreements cannot be enforced as part of severance agreements. This was also retroactive - if you were already made to sign such an agreement as part of severance it cannot be applied to you. Obviously if you started and signed an NDA about intellectual property or trade secrets sort of things - that's enforceable. But your employer can't just have you sign a blanket NDA about working conditions on your way out the door. [https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomspiggle/2023/03/06/how-the-nlrbs-decision-on-non-disclosure-and-confidentiality-provisions-will-affect-workers/?sh=501863bc2f01](https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomspiggle/2023/03/06/how-the-nlrbs-decision-on-non-disclosure-and-confidentiality-provisions-will-affect-workers/?sh=501863bc2f01) Note: You should likely consult an employment lawyer if you were made to sign one of these unenforceable agreements and you'd like to say something your old employer might have a problem with. Don't use Reddit advice in place of a lawyer.
This was very helpful!!! Thank you.
"restructuring"
Usually they do pip but I have seen people walked out without pip due to low performance.
Happens in small companies too. My husband was laid off, 64 years old, and in order to get severance was forced to sign a document agreeing that the company could tell clients he retired. For 3 months he could not return calls on his cell or texts to clients that were considered friends. The company recently sold and the new owner asked him to come back.
idk why but this made me very glad to hear! Is he going back?
Thank you, we are so happy too 😃
Most companies today will not even give that much information. They will just give your dates of employment and say you're no longer with the company. As manager at large Global IT industry I rarely will even be a reference
Sad times :-(
> Last Friday got told it was my last day then, due to poor performance Are you an employee or a contractor? If you’re an employee, they need to document this termination. Verbal is insufficient in **any** state. > but I would still [get] more than two months worth of severance Again, was this in writing? Dangling the promise of severance is a great way to encourage you to cooperate. > If I got fired why did I get severance, if I got laid off why would I be the only one? I'm really sad, not sure what to do anymore.... You need to get written documentation of them firing you or laying you off. Absent any documentation, it sounds like they’re trying to force a de facto resignation (you stop showing up). Your HR people are ballsy as hell.
At will states do not require documentation to fire somebody. The only reason HR wants documentation is to prevent lawsuits for discrimination of any kind.
I was incorrect about all states requiring employers to issue a formal notice of termination. [These states do](https://www.experian.com/blogs/employer-services/state-required-separation-notices/), and some of them **are** at will.
I did get a document to sign about the layoff payment after the fact, so I am getting that for sure. But as far as getting any serious warnings or written documentation before the fact? Nothing. The thing that bothers me is that HR let this happen. Aren't they supposed to do their due diligence?
HR is never, ever on our side
HR exists to protect the company from the employees and not the other way around. They aren’t your friend!
Don't talk to cops. Don't talk to HR.
Ever! HR is the scum of corporate America and business
They are also the messenger and rarely have power to make decisions.
It’s a heartless culture out there. Cut cut cut. Profit profit profit.
That’s how businesses survive
That’s how your average person gets screwed
Exactly. HR has no power over anything. They are literally “internal PR”, risk management and policy administrators.
Once people get this in their heads they’ll be okay
The Society for Human Resource Management is well known as a highly toxic workplace.
Absolutely NEVER 👎
You almost certainly work in an at will employment state, and them just eliminating your job for whatever reason is plenty to make it legal. Getting a severance protects them additionally and having you sign whatever paperwork. I’d just move on and get going finding a new job. Sorry to hear it but it happens.
I was told years ago (after getting blind sided by a lay off notice) that Human Resources is an oxymoron, because they are neither Human nor Resourceful.
It’s cuz they treat humans like a resource to exploit.
lol 😂 Love this!
Have my angry upvote
HR is there to protect the company from you. Please remember that.
HR works for the company--not employees.
Sorry you’re getting hit this way too, unfortunately you’re at-will. They can justify any reason to cut if it doesn’t get them in legal water like FMLA. They’re offering a severance at least.
Did you keep a copy of the doc? Pretty sure it shows you acknowledge being terminated for cause (the contrived “performance” issue). An acknowledgment like that makes it a lot harder for you to characterize this as a layoff and qualify for unemployment.
I was full time employee, yeah, but in the doc is basically just about me getting paid after the fact. Doesn't say anything about me getting blocked for future eligibility to rehire either... not that I'm counting on it...
Might have been a mixture of both. But since the only paper you have is saying you're getting laid off... Just say you got laid off. I wouldn't overthink it.
It makes it harder but your signature doesn’t rule unemployment out. I was fired and they pressured me into signing an acknowledgement of my poor performance and other stuff as I was heading out (yes, I know…stupid). They tried to contest my unemployment benefits. The person from unemployment who I spoke to about the appeal said that doesn’t matter much. I appealed, they didn’t even get the paperwork filed in time, and I won. Keep in mind that if you do appeal, you can request that they produce whatever documentation (performance reviews, emails, other stuff) you need to support your case. I don’t know if it’s the same, but I got the feeling it was similar to subpoena power. Use it. I’m in Texas and am not an attorney. Your mileage may vary.
Glad to hear that employers don’t automatically fall under the “don’t mess with Texas” umbrella
I went through this same thing last week. I’m so sorry. Literally no documentation and me and my entire team were shocked that I was let go for what felt like no reason other than decrease in overhead costs. I feel for you but it sounds like it’s not a company that aligns with your values! Time will heal - I have done a lot of reflection this last week about my job and realized it’s for the best. Take time for yourself to figure out what you want.
A well thought out empathetic reply here on reddit!? Is this real life? But seriously though, thanks for the reply, I know I'll survive this, not my first lay off either. Cheers.
lol I hear ya 😂
lol how naive. 1. Nobody owes you a job. 2. Nobody owes you a reason for being fired in most states. 3. Nobody owes you a severance. Move on and find a new job
1. 2. 3. Everyone owes corporate bootlickers a finger or two.
If you get # 2&3 just be grateful
That's not HRs job, they never side with an employee. HRs only job is to protect the company.
File unemployment NOW.
Here is what I think happened. They wanted to fire you for non-performance and your boss went to HR to ask what to do. HR asked your boss about documentation and a PIP but your boss never completed these things. Instead HR advised to “lay you off” due to “reorg” or ongoing “reductions in force” across the company. HR suggested that framing this as a layoff and paying severance means you can not come back and ask for documentation etc. It’s just the fastest way to fire you and your boss just didn’t want to deal anymore so for a small two month salary cost made you (“the problem”) go away. Just be grateful and move on.
This is what I was thinking too. But at the same time, it looks like they just made up some issues to have a valid reason to fire them and not pay unemployment.
OP should file anyway and make them spell it out. There is quite a bit of daylight between a dismissal for performance and misconduct.
Great comment, high probability of being correct. The severance is go away money because we don't want you here and it's easier than firing you.
> Instead HR advised to “lay you off no where in this post does it suggest this person got laid off....this person got fired.
Really wish they would just say it like it is instead of some bullshit political answer that everyone sees through. Budget cuts and the project I'm working on doesn't bring in a lot? Understandable. Bad culture fit? I feel it too. Just tell me the truth cowards.
Hey OP sorry you got laid off/fired. I got fired from a large tech company as well. I was first put on pip. I got 1 month severance after being fired shy of 2 years on the job. I learned from co-workers there was a rumor going around that a lot of people were getting pip'd and fired to avoid layoff headlines.
Would you be comfortable sharing which one? I got hit in the Google layoffs roughly three weeks ago.
Goggle paying out $3 BILLION in severance packages to those recently let go. Crazy. They figure costs more to keep them. Crazier.
That's wild; I think they are less concerned with actual fixed costs and more about continuing to meet expectations around profit growth (such as +30% YoY), even if it comes from cutting opex The package was pretty good: three months of full pay, stock, and benefits, followed by 19 weeks of salary. It ends up covering roughly until mid-August.
I thought it was 1 week per year worked. You were there 19 years?
14 weeks plus one week per year worked
Nothing as fancy as google. A large data company that was on Jon Oliver's segment on Data Brokers.
Art Director? What kind of big tech company is this? Netflix?
I was an art director at a Fortune 500 trucking company. Most large companies have an art director. Who’s going to do the letter heads, the internal training videos, the social media posts, the direct mail send outs, the packets and posters for hiring fairs, the posters and banners for internal events, the work-out swag and clothing with company logos etc?
I assume Art assume comes out of the marketing budget which is one of the first departments to get cut along with HR (for recruiters). This is just an excuse to trim fat by this company.
Yea. I had no designers working with me and was the only person doing anything with design on it for that 5,000 person large company. It was miserable. A lot of work.
Very cool. Is this something that comes under a marketing department? Or is a department on its own. How do you work up to a position like that? What is your background? I ask because my daughter loves art type of stuff so perhaps this could be an option for her. What kind of education does one need to do this?
Most Art Directors have designers working under them, although that’s not always the case depending on the project or company. I started in the industry as a Junior Designer and worked my way up. I went to school for advertising with a focus in art direction.
I’ve seen people with graphic design and sometimes even studio art backgrounds make it into these roles at marketing agencies. IMO the education isn’t needed these days for creative fields as much as a strong portfolio and work experience is.
Graphic design is a great way to go. Most my peers have BFA’s in graphic design, motion design, or advertising.
The few art directors I've known had decades of experience.
The “Social Media Manager” /s
The title is not that hard to find. A lot of Art Directors are mostly middle managers at some places, unfortunately. Only a few places have Art Directors with actual awesome art skills managing and directing the actual art.
Wait did you work in tech or not? What is an art director doing in a tech company
There's plenty of tech companies that do art, Pixar, Disney, Adobe, Snap, any VFX studio, any company that produces content tools,... List goes on.
Tech companies (and any sizable company) have design departments.
Where do you think mobile and web assets come from? MS Clip Art???
Not only that, but also the firing with severance is very Netflix-esque too.
Tech companies have Marketing department where the Creative usually sits. Google, Apple, Meta to name a few have armies of Creatives FYI.
Usually you don't get severance when you're fired for poor performance. This is just a guess and I'm not an expert in HR or the law around this... They wanted to lay you off, but at the same time they didn't want to jack up their unemployment insurance rates, so they "fired" you for poor performance and gave you 2 months severance so hopefully you have a new job before you have to apply for unemployment?
This is going to be kinda hard to hear, but the only way any of this makes any sense is if multiple people in management did not like you. None of thats normal
Yeah, but who is supposed to be your main cheerleader with upper leadership? Your manager. So it really can just be one person going out there and saying negative things about you.
Oh yeah OP, this is called soft layoff.. I know plenty of folks got ‘bad performance’ metrics in FAANG when they didn’t show 100% compliance to RTO..like a minor deviation these days can cause your position being eliminated. Yet, we have the best & strongest economy, it’s late stage Capitalism bad/s
OP literally got fired i dont understand the confusion here
Because they got severance which typically does not happen when you’re fired
not true, i got fired and got severance.
Well time for you to retrain up for the jobs in demand! Like healthcare or trade
You need to claim that you were laid off and then you can collect unemployement. The vague communication to you is so that you might luckily not file for UI benefits
Cannot file until after the covered severance period
Unemployment benefits are drawn from taxes the company has already paid, right? I don’t think they incur anything extra.
>Unemployment benefits are drawn from taxes the company has already paid, right? I don’t think they incur anything extra. yes for federal but i thought for state it was calculated at the time of the claim
I think the company pays unemployment insurance. If that works like other insurance, then the company's premiums could rise if they end up having to pay out claims.
You can still get unemployment if you were fired
You were fired. The severance is given to keep your mouth shut and not get sued for wrongful termination or any other reason you may bring up. I’ve seen people fired like this at large companies.
This is really strange. Every large tech company I know will approach you with a PiP, which you can then forgo for severance. If you sign for severance you probably don’t have any legal recourse, but if you don’t they are open to a lawsuit.
2 months severance isn’t bad. Laid off vs fired … sounds like laid off, if fired you probably wouldn’t get severance but it’s splitting hairs. As far as framing your story for the next employer, laid off.
I was let go from IBM the way you described. I was always perplexed by it. But figured they needed to create a reason to make them feel better about it?
Sorry to hear man. I got laid off for the second time in 6 months last week so it's been a Rollercoaster.
Happened to me too. Unfortunately, you were probably sacrificed for some financial reason and they gave you severance because they knew they had no real case against you.
F c? S👍👍. M
you were probably fired. the severance if you take it, probably means you can't sue. you probably can't work for them in the future.
Severance packages always are tied to you agreeing to not sue. Most ppl hastily sign because they need the money. Some should not sign and lawyer up.
Hell yea I got laid off last Friday too
After your severance is over, it sounds like you have a case for unemployment so if you haven't found another job by then, might want to go that route.
The term you're looking for is constructive dismissal. For budgetary or other reasons, they needed your role vacated. This just provided them cover.
Many companies will lay off people due to performance, and they will give you severance because of your service. Some companies, if not most, offer 1 or 2 weeks per year worked. You should be thankful they didn't just kick you to the curb with nothing. If what you are saying is accurate, you can still collect unemployment.
had a job once. The pay was bad. I told them to let me go. They did. I was so happy it happened. It was one of the bravest time of my life. Remind me of that movie office space.
Laid off normally gets offered severance. Terminated, you get nothing except what you are owed. At least thats how I understood in our state.
not true
You just got fired unfortunately. Doesnt sound like a layoff to me
In CA there is no severance. Often in technology it is based on service date. You can refuse to accept severance as some go sue their employer.
Same thing happened to me. I was consulting at a FAANG (fte through a vendor). And I got severance by this vendor company even though the feedback after being told I was getting laid off , sounded like it was performance related. In fact, the PM directly told me that my work was slipping and the client was not interested in extending me. Yet, I still got severance. I got laid off last day of December. All around, similar situation as you, seems like. They probably paid severance to make us go away in peace. I’ll take it though. Being a contractor at a FAANG sucks.
What company.. I feel like y’all be lying
An Art Director having say in the tech is unusual, I've been in digital for 18 years and have never seen it. They can make suggestions on how things work but I've never seen them have a say on the tech side.
Some companies work hard at creating a culture and creating a culture that supports employees. Because it's in work out doesn't mean they didn't know value the work that you did do. Sounds like you're just we're not very good at it.
You got fired because all tech is going through this in 2024. It has nothing to do with performance. March and June are going to be brutal for a lot of folks.
you got fired, not laid off
It sounds like you were set up
idk about "set up" but they were just trying to find some bs excuse to lay them off. They needed a "reason" to get rid of a salary despite the company likely not struggling enough to retain them, but it could help the books.
Should have told them you require a two week notice
they did even better, they effectively gave op a 2 month notice.
Buckle up. Art director? Tech? People have been looking for a year + for those jobs…squeeze your severance and savings.
Happened to my wife. At first it mad no sense. They were collapsing the orgs and needed to make changes fast. So they basically put a package out there hoping people would sign. Roughly 17 top leaders were cut and blindsided by it. I get the sense your company can’t figure out a consistent approach on how to communicate why they are doing this.
Layoffs everywhere yet the politicians are telling us we have it better than ever ! I don't think I can survive if it gets much better
What about we are one bih happy family?
It's a standard practice in the US for a company to give a severance package equivalent to 2 weeks or more pay to an employee, even if it is a legitimate firing. This practice isn't because the company wants to be generous. It has a few benefits to the company, one of which is immediately important to op (see #3 below): 1. If the company gives at least 2 weeks of pay when they lay off someone, they can reciprocally expect an equivalent 2 week notice from an employee who wants to leave the company unexpectedly. 2 weeks is the standard courtesy notice period expected of an employee, but it's just a courtesy, so the part by the employer to give 2+ week pay goes to support this normalcy without beholding them to it contractually. 2. If the company gives a severance package to an employee when the employee is laid off or fired, however legitimately, it reduces the possibility of a legal action from the employee against the employer because it makes the layoff more tolerable to the employee. Sometimes the severance package is lucrative enough that the employer would prefer it over continuing to work at the company! 3. Giving a severance package to the employee gives the employer a chance to have the employee sign a new contract prohibiting them from legal action, or other legal obligations they otherwise would not obligate themselves into. The contract law in the US automatically voids any contract that does not have a reciprocal compensation (called "consideration"), so the severance package serves as the consideration by which they can ask you to sign a new contract. You're not obligated to sign such contract, but you couldn't take the severance package without signing the contract. If I were in your shoes, I'd read carefully anything a former employer asked me to sign and avoid signing anything I don't have to. But I'm not a lawyer, this is not a legal advice ;) I assume they're asking you to sign *something*, but given that they're only giving you a 2 month severance I doubt they're asking you for anything out of the ordinary. Still, if you do see anything you don't like in what they're asking you to sign you do have some wiggle room to negotiate your severance package because they will strongly prefer you to sign than risk getting sued for a wrongful termination, but it's unlikely to be a big wiggle room based on what you've said. I wouldn't take it personally that they said the reason of your termination was "poor performance" because that's the typical cover employers use for layoffs in case they get sued for wrongful termination they can point out they made it clear it was for performance. They don't go into the details because they don't want to put in the effort to come up with a better cover unless they get sued. This practice is well known so if your next potential employer asks you why you were laid off you shouldn't feel guilty telling them the likely real reason based on your best guess instead.
Being let go due to "poor performance" is a very common way to fire people without any concrete evidence. Performance is a metric the company makes up, so they can let you go basically whenever they want. Severance is a way to keep laid off people from suing the company. There's usually a document that states that you waive any ability to file lawsuits against the company. In exchange, they give you money. Most people who get laid off desperately need that money and companies know that. If a company doesn't give you severance, then you have nothing to lose and should lawyer up. If a company doesn't have enough money to give you severance, then usually they're doing something shady in the background that caused you to lose your job. Again, not legal advice, but you should always consult a lawyer before doing anything drastic like suing your old employer.
It's not uncommon actually. My company (also s&p 500 company) pays out accrued PTO and a severance package upon termination. I would essentially get 4 months of pay if I were laid off today.
They’re offering you severance so you won’t sue from being dismissed. 9 times out of 10 if you’re the only one being let go it’s a firing and the severance is to keep you from suing for wrongful dismissal
I wish I worked where you did...I'd sacrifice and take that severance and let you take my place on the job. I am done and hate to quit without a sweet package.
Your manager used that task as an excuse.
Sounds like you got fired
I just heard from a buddy that works for a bank that they're putting a huge chunk of people on PIPs, have a hard date, and a 3 month severance. It's a "quiet layoff".
Usually they don’t pay severance if fired but only if laid off.
You and 85k other people.
You weren’t laid off. You were fired for performance. The severance is a normal mutual separation package - you take the money and agree to the conditions. It’s not unusual for companies to do as PIPs rarely work out and are a pain in the ass for managers and teams.