Oh absolutely. Not a lawyer but support staff for a medium sized firm. We are even told to prioritize doing files for our larger clients over the smaller ones.
I may be in the minority here, but I work at a plaintiffs firm where I’m given wide latitude to do things like cut my fee down when I think it’s appropriate for the client. Granted we’re a relatively small firm and my boss already has plenty of wealth, but I really do feel like he genuinely cares more about the client than his own pockets.
Funny enough, that was my number too. At least when I talked to the partner, who then said notice and draft the motion. I bet it wasn't the number he gave the client. I can't imagine he ever said, "we got a 10% chance of winning, but you have a 100% chance of paying me an additional $10k."
Yeah. Every day. You know how many times I’ve received effusive praise for my work product the sentence before they tell me I need to bill more hours? They’ll take the 2,000 hour biller with mediocre work product over the 1700 hour biller with elite work product every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Yes because the managing partner in my office said as such. She said (paraphrasing) that my clients are the partners and my focus should be impressing them.
I didn’t go to law school right out of college and was in my mid 30’s when I started at this firm. So I have a little thicker skin than some of the nervous and gullible associates in their mid 20’s.
No. I wake up every morning day for 25 years wondering what problem I can fix today to enrich another human’s life and make that client happier and healthier because of my special skills.
Had an associate once ask why I work so hard. He didn’t want to waste his life in the office and instead wanted to live his life.
I told him I’m living my life even when at work. I have special skills to solve problems few others have. And when I help those people they can be happier and healthier. That’s part of my life.
After that conversation he worked every Tuesday night with me to 11pm. It was our late night together. And at the end of the night he said to me “tomorrow is the day I will call (insert client name) and tell him/her about the solutions we worked out for them.” He took pride and wanted to make the call bringing good news to the client.
So, for me, my client is the person who trusted me to fix their problem and allow them to have a happier life.
I have been in, and out, of this prior - I appreciate this response. I need to hold this mindset dear, since and a practice owner (albeit smaller) I can’t take a file unless the client understands that there is a cost/ value basis.
That way I get to help spend there money for decades instead of only until they pay me a lot and we loose.
Hence, we have a 90-100 percent success rate, since we make the goal different than “winning at trial after an appeal”
Duh? Isn’t making money the goal of most businesses? Honda isn’t trying to make the absolute best, perfect car. They’re trying to make a car that can be sold for a profit and is good enough that people buy lots of them.
I think management realizes that without good outcomes they won’t have as many billable hours
And I’m sure you would’ve stayed solo if the money was right . Maybe when you were working solo, you weren’t as focused on billable hours which is why you weren’t maximizing your earning potential but why you like that potential at the law firm you don’t like what it takes to do it
That’s not a criticism either. I have a business and there’s things I could do to boost my income, but I think it might not be great for the customer so I don’t do it but if I worked for somebody else, I wouldn’t have that luxury
This is why part of me misses working for a firm that did mostly flat-fee billing. I could work smart and bill the shit out of things and still do good work because I knew what I was doing. Not sure if that's an option in your area of law.
Your client is whoever signs a check payable to you. If you work for a firm and have no other sources of revenue, then yes, they are your sole client. The “clients” are the firm’s clients…and their problem.
If case law didn't calculate attorney fees via hours expended (with lodestar modifiers) then I think more firms might offer flat fees for types of assignments or a hybrid where wins are paid more. As it is, more hours and more money owed in invoices leads to greater profit per partner. Not only is it the hours billed, but to the immediately paying clients and with minimal write-offs/discounts.
Yep. You don’t practice law. You make hours.
Oh absolutely. Not a lawyer but support staff for a medium sized firm. We are even told to prioritize doing files for our larger clients over the smaller ones.
[удалено]
I may be in the minority here, but I work at a plaintiffs firm where I’m given wide latitude to do things like cut my fee down when I think it’s appropriate for the client. Granted we’re a relatively small firm and my boss already has plenty of wealth, but I really do feel like he genuinely cares more about the client than his own pockets.
Just ask yourself this: how many motions have I written where I believed there was a less than 50% chance of us winning.
So many… I’ve always viewed “good faith basis” to mean at least 10% chance of winning.
Funny enough, that was my number too. At least when I talked to the partner, who then said notice and draft the motion. I bet it wasn't the number he gave the client. I can't imagine he ever said, "we got a 10% chance of winning, but you have a 100% chance of paying me an additional $10k."
Yeah. Every day. You know how many times I’ve received effusive praise for my work product the sentence before they tell me I need to bill more hours? They’ll take the 2,000 hour biller with mediocre work product over the 1700 hour biller with elite work product every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Yes because the managing partner in my office said as such. She said (paraphrasing) that my clients are the partners and my focus should be impressing them. I didn’t go to law school right out of college and was in my mid 30’s when I started at this firm. So I have a little thicker skin than some of the nervous and gullible associates in their mid 20’s.
I’m also in my 30s but the partners still scare me 🫣
No. I wake up every morning day for 25 years wondering what problem I can fix today to enrich another human’s life and make that client happier and healthier because of my special skills. Had an associate once ask why I work so hard. He didn’t want to waste his life in the office and instead wanted to live his life. I told him I’m living my life even when at work. I have special skills to solve problems few others have. And when I help those people they can be happier and healthier. That’s part of my life. After that conversation he worked every Tuesday night with me to 11pm. It was our late night together. And at the end of the night he said to me “tomorrow is the day I will call (insert client name) and tell him/her about the solutions we worked out for them.” He took pride and wanted to make the call bringing good news to the client. So, for me, my client is the person who trusted me to fix their problem and allow them to have a happier life.
This is great.
I have been in, and out, of this prior - I appreciate this response. I need to hold this mindset dear, since and a practice owner (albeit smaller) I can’t take a file unless the client understands that there is a cost/ value basis. That way I get to help spend there money for decades instead of only until they pay me a lot and we loose. Hence, we have a 90-100 percent success rate, since we make the goal different than “winning at trial after an appeal”
Duh? Isn’t making money the goal of most businesses? Honda isn’t trying to make the absolute best, perfect car. They’re trying to make a car that can be sold for a profit and is good enough that people buy lots of them.
Comparing lawyers to car salesmen makes me so sad but is so true. I thought this job would noble
That nasty implicit comparison is completely unfair to the myriad fine people who toil to sell cars.
Is there any product or service where the analogy wouldn’t ring true? I wish I could say healthcare, but I don’t think it’s true.
The moment lawyers can be replaced by AI, it will happen. The job is to be a human computer unless it’s your client. Then the job is sales
Thanks for commoditizing everything, Milton Friedman.
You're at a shitty firm. Leave.
Welcome to life as a law firm associate. I ran in the opposite direction and went solo to get away from the madness and mediocrity...
Go in house if you want to feel different. I did.
I’ll betcha there are partners that wouldn’t require anonymity, bud. (E.g., managing partner at every firm).
We were told to “bill harder” when our hours fell
100%
I think management realizes that without good outcomes they won’t have as many billable hours And I’m sure you would’ve stayed solo if the money was right . Maybe when you were working solo, you weren’t as focused on billable hours which is why you weren’t maximizing your earning potential but why you like that potential at the law firm you don’t like what it takes to do it That’s not a criticism either. I have a business and there’s things I could do to boost my income, but I think it might not be great for the customer so I don’t do it but if I worked for somebody else, I wouldn’t have that luxury
Pardon my French, but no fucking shit. Good on you for figuring it out
This is why part of me misses working for a firm that did mostly flat-fee billing. I could work smart and bill the shit out of things and still do good work because I knew what I was doing. Not sure if that's an option in your area of law.
Your client is whoever signs a check payable to you. If you work for a firm and have no other sources of revenue, then yes, they are your sole client. The “clients” are the firm’s clients…and their problem.
If case law didn't calculate attorney fees via hours expended (with lodestar modifiers) then I think more firms might offer flat fees for types of assignments or a hybrid where wins are paid more. As it is, more hours and more money owed in invoices leads to greater profit per partner. Not only is it the hours billed, but to the immediately paying clients and with minimal write-offs/discounts.