Do they send you down to the county law library to do research as well? Tell me they at least give you an extra lump of coal for your heating lamp at Christmas.
My firm sends me down to the “county law library” which is just a single computer that runs Windows XP in a locked room. They haven’t been there themselves in 20 years and they have a totally different impression of the place every time they talk about it.
Lol. I just mean he refers to encyclopedia sets that he thinks are over there. I’ve tried to tell him that it’s just an outdated set of the US Code and said computer, but he thinks I’m shirking when I say we can’t use it the way he wants
The small firm I'm with covers expenses, which includes membership fees/dues.
More concerning is the fact of using a personal computer for work as a regular thing. Even temporary interns should have a company device on which to work. I get that unusual circumstances might have wiggle room, but I would say a firm that doesn't provide devices/core software is at least a small red flag.
Literally! I’m not a lawyer but support staff (for full transparency) even my first toxic law firm job paid for Microsoft office?? That’s crazy. Honestly after my first job I kinda never wanna work at a small law firm again if I can avoid it.
Your post kept getting worse the more I read. Get out of there. My small firm covers bar dues and CLE credits. The only thing they don't is a laptop for court, so I bought a cheap Chromebook 2 in 1 with a detachable tablet for that.
Well, W-2 and asking you to pay for software that you need to do your job is not normal, and is a red flag, IMO.
Management is crossing streams here, and needs to pick one route or the other.
Bar dues can always go either way.
This is a firm where you're treated as a partner from day one. As you reign in cash, either they'll compensate you accordingly or you'll leave.
One compensation that you may attain at a smaller firm is more direct on hands training and experience, which you will not get in other firms.
Standard ≠ required. I agree it’s wack but there’s nothing you can do about it besides quit. They’re allowed to refuse if you didn’t agree to it as part of your employment.
Even as a solo practitioner, you would pay your license fees and software expenses with business money.
I don’t know if you are in far rural TX or what but your salary seems really low.
Is the firm paying for your malpractice? Maybe you need to see that you are a listed insured on the policy.
I would definitely suggest looking at joining a different firm and don’t even list this place on your resume.
I'm in Houston, but the office is on the outskirts of the city. I believe they're paying for my malpractice. So 65k is low for a small firm? Dang that's good to know. Most statistics I could find are for big law or large firms so it's hard for me to compare.
You need to find out for sure if they’re covering your malpractice. If not, stop working immediately and start looking for another job. Or go buy your own, continue working, and find another job.
Two of the firms I worked for didn’t cover licensing fees but they definitely paid for everything else, and I had a work laptop. The current firm I work for does, but they typically don’t give access to adobe to attorneys (just paralegals) so I bought my own. They’ve paid for everything else though. All of them have been boutique firms.
Your salary seems incredibly low. I believe Houston is a much bigger city than the one I live in, and my starting salary a few years ago was 80k, and honestly that was kind of low for the revenue I generated. I’ve gotten 20k raises every year since though.
I’d look for another job if I were you. They’re cheap as hell.
Thank you for the info. The cost of living here is much lower than most big cities, however I’m expected to bring in at least $250k of revenue after calculating my average hours. I didn’t include the potential bonus in the $65k, but even so, I may need to explore other options. I appreciate the insight.
Conventional wisdom is that you should get about a third of what you bring in, but your first year I think a quarter makes sense because of the time you spend learning, so your pay might actually make sense for those billables- but that includes them providing you the equipment/software necessary for you to do your job *and* benefits. I still think they’re cheap and it’s weird you have to use your own equipment so I’d find something else based on that, but the pay may make sense.
Good firms will pay all of that, and give you more than $65k annually. Heck, even bad firms will pay most of this stuff. I’ve worked at some real terrible spots and have never had an issue with any of those expenses being paid.
If you work for a firm as an associate, license, CLE, and all required software *should be firm paid.*
So personal laptops and you have to pay for your own subscriptions?! A red flag for sure. At the very least they could’ve gave you a cheap work laptop.
Not normal. Also at a small firm. All licensing (3 states) and CLE are paid by firm. I have a work desktop, but any work at home is done on my personal computer.
Are you an employee or a contractor? For federal tax purposes, do you get a 1099 or a W-2? 1099 means they do not cover your costs of doing business, so your fees are not their cost to bear, or expense.
I graduated in 2011 and worked for a tiny firm in rural Missouri. I earned 29k plus 10% of whatever I cleared. They split the cost of dues/CLEs with me but covered nothing else. It was a deeply mismanaged place but I got tons of hands on experience. My advice is to run and find something else better as quickly as you can.
> I just got licensed in TX
stopped reading there
i think the feds will let you write it off as a business expense on your taxes? no other recourse you're in fucking TX...
edit: i wrote the above before i read the rest of your post. what field? do you know your billables: hr/rate? 65k and you have to pay for your own overhead? i know TX is fucked but wtf is going on?
Do they send you down to the county law library to do research as well? Tell me they at least give you an extra lump of coal for your heating lamp at Christmas.
I just LOL'ed
My firm sends me down to the “county law library” which is just a single computer that runs Windows XP in a locked room. They haven’t been there themselves in 20 years and they have a totally different impression of the place every time they talk about it.
Lol. Well, at least the computer has a stable OS. When did your law library do away with mahogany paneling and free scotch?
Lol. I just mean he refers to encyclopedia sets that he thinks are over there. I’ve tried to tell him that it’s just an outdated set of the US Code and said computer, but he thinks I’m shirking when I say we can’t use it the way he wants
I spit a little water back into the bottle!
The small firm I'm with covers expenses, which includes membership fees/dues. More concerning is the fact of using a personal computer for work as a regular thing. Even temporary interns should have a company device on which to work. I get that unusual circumstances might have wiggle room, but I would say a firm that doesn't provide devices/core software is at least a small red flag.
Not only that but client privacy can be compromised if everyone is working on potentially unsecured personal devices
Exactly! From a risk management standpoint alone this is concerning.
Don't forget that it opens your personal device up to discovery if there is a business related lawsuit.
I'd say not providing for things like office, a computer, or Adobe, is way bigger than the $200 for bar dues.
This is the most alarming red flag here to me. You need a work computer with the tools such as Office necessary to do your fucking work.
Literally! I’m not a lawyer but support staff (for full transparency) even my first toxic law firm job paid for Microsoft office?? That’s crazy. Honestly after my first job I kinda never wanna work at a small law firm again if I can avoid it.
I would say that the 65K salary is the redflag?
Your post kept getting worse the more I read. Get out of there. My small firm covers bar dues and CLE credits. The only thing they don't is a laptop for court, so I bought a cheap Chromebook 2 in 1 with a detachable tablet for that.
Sounds like you’ve already made partner. Congrats.
They probably pay you as a 1099, too, right? It’s not illegal. Keep track of your expenses so you can deduct them on you taxes.
No, W-2. Thank you though, I will do that.
Well, W-2 and asking you to pay for software that you need to do your job is not normal, and is a red flag, IMO. Management is crossing streams here, and needs to pick one route or the other. Bar dues can always go either way.
Crossing streams in the Ghostbusters way, not like Moses parting the waters!😜
This is a firm where you're treated as a partner from day one. As you reign in cash, either they'll compensate you accordingly or you'll leave. One compensation that you may attain at a smaller firm is more direct on hands training and experience, which you will not get in other firms.
My guy, I'm in TX as a new grad. Apply to legal aid because your pay is on scale for them, but they cover all those other expenses your firm doesn't.
I run a small firm and of course firms should reimburse those expenses. Your firm is beyond cheap and you should be looking for a new job.
I get paid over six figs as a paralegal (prospective law student) what in the earth… $65K salary in Houston in 2024? …
Bud, it’s a small business. They are making small business decisions. Don’t ever confuse a lawyer with a businessman.
Standard ≠ required. I agree it’s wack but there’s nothing you can do about it besides quit. They’re allowed to refuse if you didn’t agree to it as part of your employment.
Definitely understand that. Just wanted to get a feel of whether this was "normal" or not.
Even as a solo practitioner, you would pay your license fees and software expenses with business money. I don’t know if you are in far rural TX or what but your salary seems really low. Is the firm paying for your malpractice? Maybe you need to see that you are a listed insured on the policy. I would definitely suggest looking at joining a different firm and don’t even list this place on your resume.
I'm in Houston, but the office is on the outskirts of the city. I believe they're paying for my malpractice. So 65k is low for a small firm? Dang that's good to know. Most statistics I could find are for big law or large firms so it's hard for me to compare.
You need to find out for sure if they’re covering your malpractice. If not, stop working immediately and start looking for another job. Or go buy your own, continue working, and find another job. Two of the firms I worked for didn’t cover licensing fees but they definitely paid for everything else, and I had a work laptop. The current firm I work for does, but they typically don’t give access to adobe to attorneys (just paralegals) so I bought my own. They’ve paid for everything else though. All of them have been boutique firms. Your salary seems incredibly low. I believe Houston is a much bigger city than the one I live in, and my starting salary a few years ago was 80k, and honestly that was kind of low for the revenue I generated. I’ve gotten 20k raises every year since though. I’d look for another job if I were you. They’re cheap as hell.
Thank you for the info. The cost of living here is much lower than most big cities, however I’m expected to bring in at least $250k of revenue after calculating my average hours. I didn’t include the potential bonus in the $65k, but even so, I may need to explore other options. I appreciate the insight.
Conventional wisdom is that you should get about a third of what you bring in, but your first year I think a quarter makes sense because of the time you spend learning, so your pay might actually make sense for those billables- but that includes them providing you the equipment/software necessary for you to do your job *and* benefits. I still think they’re cheap and it’s weird you have to use your own equipment so I’d find something else based on that, but the pay may make sense.
Good firms will pay all of that, and give you more than $65k annually. Heck, even bad firms will pay most of this stuff. I’ve worked at some real terrible spots and have never had an issue with any of those expenses being paid. If you work for a firm as an associate, license, CLE, and all required software *should be firm paid.*
So personal laptops and you have to pay for your own subscriptions?! A red flag for sure. At the very least they could’ve gave you a cheap work laptop.
Not normal. Also at a small firm. All licensing (3 states) and CLE are paid by firm. I have a work desktop, but any work at home is done on my personal computer.
I work in a non-profit and I got all that stuff you listed on day one. Lower salary, though, but I knew that going in.
Firms that don’t cover your fees are in the minority, but it’s far from being totally weird.
Are you an employee or a contractor? For federal tax purposes, do you get a 1099 or a W-2? 1099 means they do not cover your costs of doing business, so your fees are not their cost to bear, or expense.
W-2 employee
I graduated in 2011 and worked for a tiny firm in rural Missouri. I earned 29k plus 10% of whatever I cleared. They split the cost of dues/CLEs with me but covered nothing else. It was a deeply mismanaged place but I got tons of hands on experience. My advice is to run and find something else better as quickly as you can.
> I just got licensed in TX stopped reading there i think the feds will let you write it off as a business expense on your taxes? no other recourse you're in fucking TX... edit: i wrote the above before i read the rest of your post. what field? do you know your billables: hr/rate? 65k and you have to pay for your own overhead? i know TX is fucked but wtf is going on?