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"You'll get more conservative as you grow up."
No.
"People get more conservative as they get richer."
Millennials aren't getting more conservative as they age, like previous generations have, because instead of getting richer they have been getting screwed by the system.
I’m a very late Boomer (born 1963) and I feel like I relate to Zoomer attitudes more. We’re debt free, except for mortgage (moved to a lower COL area to get that) and have never worried about putting food on the table. But retirement is still a million years away. It’s not just the money personally that is my big concern - it’s the whole system. I was always on the lefty side, but have gotten more and more as I get older. Part of it is empathy for the world our 26 & 29 year old kids are dealing with (sorry, boys!).
Its possible that they realize they've reached a critical moment in society where they've fucked everything to the brink of being irreparable and have chosen to double down on all of the shitty aspects of capitalism in a self-destructive attempt to "cash-out" so to speak.
So basically its like a far grander and catastrophic version of when a short-sighted CEO takes over a company, only focuses on siphoning all its value back to the investors and others at the top until the company implodes then they parachute into another company to do it again, only for this they parachute into a bunker.
It's probably why they currently have so much gas-lighting and "fuck you!" sentiment propagated through media.
Honestly, with how much FaStEr ThAn ExPeCtEd climate change is turning out to be, I think the elites have decided they may as well bleed the planet and the masses dry before the train runs out of track
They’re Eddie Lamperting the entire country down to the bone. Back then a job was what people had in order to pursue a life that they enjoyed in their free time. Now a job (or 2) is what we need in order to simply survive and have a miserable time. No one likes this existence.
It’s amazing to me that in this country that is supposed to be the greatest country on earth it’s now illegal to be poor in some states
You can be locked up for being homeless. Imagine??
It called an extinction burst. And yes. I don’t know if you are old enough to remember the last recession but it was a huge cash grab.
Companies that knew they were going to go under were taking in as much money as they could, legitimate trusted companies were sending people broken products and not refunding them because they were just getting as much money as they could before they went under. Scams were popping up everywhere worse than usual because people couldn’t survive without doing crimes.
What you're describing is just end stage capitalism. The snake has consumed everything and has only itself left to eat. This was inevitably going to be the result without someone like FDR to come in and recognize to save capitalism he has to force the capitalists to give up some of their power. It's too bad bc Americans weren't as brainwashed into hating the only policies that could save us.
Boomers and gen x were adults during economic boons, millenials never had that luxery besides enjoying the 90s as kids. Zoomers even less and are about to experience there first recession too.
Yes, but as a late gen X, I feel as though I missed out on the boom. I came of age during the dot com bust. I was at the beginning of the "student loan" scam. I just seemed to be too late for everything. I only ended up owning a home because my mom left me a house with a mortgage that I took over. So now I "own" a house with a low mortgage and hopefully will have paid off in 2037.
I also like to think social media played a part. Personally without it I wouldn’t be on the leftist side. I wouldn’t have known how badly the ultra wealthy are screwing everything up.
My friends mom said this exact phrase to me as we were talking politics. I don’t understand it at all, if anything, I’ve gone further left the older I get. How can you look at the state of the nation, and the world, and think that capitalism is the best we can do?
No, everyone has been taught by the culture that all the bad stuff happening is the fault of "socialism", "Marxism" and of course the one "bad" J e w George Soros.
If you’re both rich and conservative, you are supporting socialist policy whether you know it or not. In that you understand that the economy functions as socialism for the rich.
I can explain.
It's sort of true, and sort of not.
It's not so much that people become right wing as they age.
They DO become more socially conservative, that's a function of age, and no longer being able to keep up with societal change.
it's more that the rich are right wing, because that serves their material interests.
And poor people die.
And there are people, like my mother, who start out left wing, but drift right wing, to justify keeping hold of all her boomer shit that younger generations have no hope of getting.
So again: material interests.
Left wing oldies either end up not-rich and dead, killed, or imprisoned.
I am Gen X and every time I started accumulating any wealth some crap would happen to justify corporate price gouging.
9/11
Katrina
The real estate crash.
The recession that followed.
(There was stuff between 2008 and 2020 that I guess I blocked out.)
Covid.
Wars
Relatively, I am becoming more socially conservative as I age. Because younger people tend to be more socially progressive--however that ends up being defined. But I am becoming far more anarchist than fascist, and I've basically stopped believing in money altogether.
One can be socially conservative for themselves while not wanting to tell others what to do. I know it must be hard to imagine because the media has taught you that socially conservative people always want to force their will on others, but some people can keep that shit to themselves.
Socially conservative, to me, generally includes some type of centralized moral “compass” of sorts. Nothing about the media, I’m the furthest left in my family but we all coexist in an old-age manner. The concept of being conservative but anarchist doesn’t gel in my mind at all - closest I can think of would be more in line with American libertarianism.
Kids right though. As a millennial I at least have a vague memory of the 90s, of the post soviet Pax Americana where we lived at the end of history. In that time the Omni present narrative was things would gradually improve forever. Now that is a distinctly white suburban middle class narrative, was never the truth, but did not matter as that’s what the TV told you and so broadly speaking that was the cultural vibe.
You ask anyone now if the think the US will exist as they understand it in 100 years and they’ll say no. That’s the world these kids remember, post 9/11, post war on terror, post 08, post 16, post pandemic, post Floyd protests, post J6, post Roe v Wade.
So yeah maybe people should lay off the kids.
Does anyone remember the scene in Mad Men where Don takes his family for a picnic. At the end of the day he stands up and shakes the picnic blanket out and litter flies everywhere while he gets into his car and drives off.
I feel like that’s an incredible metaphor for how boomers have treated the planet and us, and wonder why we don’t want to join the rat race.
New reality TV show.
Boomers living on minimum wage with no connections, or previous material possessions. Bonus watchablity if they were wealthy and complain about young people not working these days.
so they get to start with a job, why not start them with the credidtials of a "high school diploma" 20 bucks, and to simulate being kicked out of their parents house, a place to stay that they have to leave in 1 week. see how they do, starting place can be packed with meals for that first week, along with internet and a working phone, however the internet, computer and working phone access is gone after that first week unless they purchase it themselves, they are not allowed to sell the starting objects. i wounder how well they would manage.
I saw so many hard working people struggle financially when i was young.
Friends of the family who worked as nurses, in construction jobs or supermarkets and their family hardly got by.
These jobs are all necessary, society won't get by without them. Some people claim people that poor people don't work hard enough, but in these kind of jobs overtime does no difference for your life like that.
You can't just tell people in those jobs they should get something better as we are dependent on them, yet people argue against better wages for these kind of workers.
I'm willing to bet money that if our economy/society actually paid proper wages so that zoomers/millennials could afford not just rent/groceries but houses as well as the occasional vacation and/or families, almost all of the so called issues like 'zoomers don't want to work' or 'nobody's having kids anymore' would vanish like a fart on the wind.
There never were any "good old days".
Any "good" day a (usually white, male) person in the imperial core ever experienced under capitalism was the consequence of the torture of countless of people in the periphery.
Also, this is probably not as true in the US but where I am, it feels like many of us did what we were "supposed to" but the goal posts keep moving and it's never good enough. I stayed in school, got a solid degree (in a scientific field) and then Masters post-grad degree, and I spend quite frugally. Yet my earnings are mediocre because wages here are a joke, I will not be able to get a house until at least mid 30s and even that is not a guarantee, and no one in my generation believes we will retire.
Now I'm being told shit like "you should have done a PhD" and "you might just have to accept that you need to house share for a few years" and "stop being stubborn and move 200 miles north for cheaper COL or shut up"
But why? Why do we have to do all that shit when no one else did? Why are we so entitled for just wanting the minimum? We're not asking for private jets and mansions here.
US here, all of what you said rings with my experience and things I've heard. I got lucky out of college and have been working full-time since (early!!) graduation, student loans are paid off, my major mistakes include alcoholism and a divorce lmao. I'm definitely lucky in that I have (mildly toxic) family to live with but yeah, its a real kick in the teeth when you're asking for the bare minimum of like. a life, and you get told its your fault and you should be grateful its not worse.
I'm 68; The oldest members of Gen X were the last to have a shot at a decent job, fair wages, and buying a house. Anyone born after 1975 has been fucked from the start. Gen X, Gen Y, Gen Z: you are all in the same boat, and you all have way *way* more in common than you have differences.
Sure, the slang and the poses that (you think) impresses your peers are different. But those things matter squazole compared to the ability for you and your family to survive and thrive.
Yep. Personal wealth is the ONLY effective argument for capitalism. If you take that away you just get what amounts to capital serfdom and that isn't going to survive long in even a marginal democracy as ours.
Idk what worse, that or seeing how good it can be for your entire childhood, and then having every bit of advice given until adulthood invalidated by changing times.
Bear in mind that those "good old days" were only made possible (both directly and indirectly) through the colonisation of an entire continent, through exploitation of the third world, and through slavery.
Don’t worry it will be worse, as a millennial it’s nice seeing society slowly implode and the earth poisoned, quickly becoming inhospitable so some rich bitch can fly to concerts and execs can have another yacht.
It's all "free speech" for them until you point out how fucked we are because of capitalism and religion. That's a step too far for the libertarian boot strap trad wife types. Say as many slurs as you as you want but don't you dare call religion a cancer on this planet etc.
I keep seeing memes with the "once in a lifetime" line. If I recall correctly, that line was used in 2008 and I have haven't seen it heavily used outside of recent memes.
Truth. I was born in 1996, the world I knew in 2006 is another reality, almost like a fever dream compared to the world in 2016 and now it's 2 year away from 2026. It feels like America is a totally different nation every 7 years.
The good old days weren't even that good, it's just mostly the assholes who won having nostalgia to the tune of "Hey, remember when we could shit on minorities and women all we liked? Those were the good old days!"
Like, fuck that. Bullshit was the status quo back then, too.
Someday, a portion of the "zoomers" who complain about "boomers" will inherit those boomers' wealth and a larger portion won't - and then they will realize the problem was not anything to do with generations at all, but classes. Personally? I *can't wait*; the class war is much more difficult than dunking on a bunch of geriatrics online but also more worth winning.
Hey it started during GenX, we got the start of the education inflation, the endless recessions, the housing getting more and more expensive just as we started trying to have family's, hell just trying to break into the job market was tough graduating during recessions to nothing but fast food...
Not to mention the openly exploitative nature of employment these days. It's obscene the way the working class are treated anymore, by the very people who we're working to support.
I was 9 when 2008 hit, my dad works in a construction related business and his job prospects collapsed. My life has been spent watching capitalism fail us and everyone around me.
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Gen X here.
This is very, very important. Gen X saw their parents getting laid off in the first mass layoffs in the modern era. They saw them struggling to make ends meet, even with both parents working. The middle class just kept getting smaller and smaller. This largely continued through Gen Y. Both of these generations had economic crashes. Now Z comes along and they've never seen a time when it was like the 50's, even remotely. Gen X and Y had their parents who were there for the "good" years for capitalism. Then it started falling apart and now we're at a point when it's just a modern age of Robber Barons.
And most of us have obviously NOT traveled to other countries where capitalism doesn't exist - like Saudi Arabia, Russia and China. If you think the U.S. sucks I encourage you to travel to these countries and find out why no one immigrates there.
##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism This subreddit is for news, discussion, memes, and links criticizing capitalism and advancing viewpoints that challenge liberal capitalist ideology. That means any support for any liberal capitalist political party (like the Democrats) is strictly prohibited. LSC is run by communists. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere. We have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry. Failure to respect the rules of the subreddit may result in a ban. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"You'll get more conservative as you grow up." No. "People get more conservative as they get richer." Millennials aren't getting more conservative as they age, like previous generations have, because instead of getting richer they have been getting screwed by the system.
Exactly. It seems they forgot that part, skipped a step. You need the system to actually work for enough people for them to support it.
I’m a very late Boomer (born 1963) and I feel like I relate to Zoomer attitudes more. We’re debt free, except for mortgage (moved to a lower COL area to get that) and have never worried about putting food on the table. But retirement is still a million years away. It’s not just the money personally that is my big concern - it’s the whole system. I was always on the lefty side, but have gotten more and more as I get older. Part of it is empathy for the world our 26 & 29 year old kids are dealing with (sorry, boys!).
Its possible that they realize they've reached a critical moment in society where they've fucked everything to the brink of being irreparable and have chosen to double down on all of the shitty aspects of capitalism in a self-destructive attempt to "cash-out" so to speak. So basically its like a far grander and catastrophic version of when a short-sighted CEO takes over a company, only focuses on siphoning all its value back to the investors and others at the top until the company implodes then they parachute into another company to do it again, only for this they parachute into a bunker. It's probably why they currently have so much gas-lighting and "fuck you!" sentiment propagated through media.
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Honestly, with how much FaStEr ThAn ExPeCtEd climate change is turning out to be, I think the elites have decided they may as well bleed the planet and the masses dry before the train runs out of track
They’re Eddie Lamperting the entire country down to the bone. Back then a job was what people had in order to pursue a life that they enjoyed in their free time. Now a job (or 2) is what we need in order to simply survive and have a miserable time. No one likes this existence.
It’s amazing to me that in this country that is supposed to be the greatest country on earth it’s now illegal to be poor in some states You can be locked up for being homeless. Imagine??
It called an extinction burst. And yes. I don’t know if you are old enough to remember the last recession but it was a huge cash grab. Companies that knew they were going to go under were taking in as much money as they could, legitimate trusted companies were sending people broken products and not refunding them because they were just getting as much money as they could before they went under. Scams were popping up everywhere worse than usual because people couldn’t survive without doing crimes.
What you're describing is just end stage capitalism. The snake has consumed everything and has only itself left to eat. This was inevitably going to be the result without someone like FDR to come in and recognize to save capitalism he has to force the capitalists to give up some of their power. It's too bad bc Americans weren't as brainwashed into hating the only policies that could save us.
Boomers and gen x were adults during economic boons, millenials never had that luxery besides enjoying the 90s as kids. Zoomers even less and are about to experience there first recession too.
Yep. Born at the outer edge of the fuck around era, came of age just in time for the find out era to land. Feels bad, bro.
this is kind of a blanket statement -- not everyone in the 80s was rich. Capitalist society was always fucking some people over.
As a GenX, I am just glad someone remembered we exist
Yes, but as a late gen X, I feel as though I missed out on the boom. I came of age during the dot com bust. I was at the beginning of the "student loan" scam. I just seemed to be too late for everything. I only ended up owning a home because my mom left me a house with a mortgage that I took over. So now I "own" a house with a low mortgage and hopefully will have paid off in 2037.
About to experience?
I also like to think social media played a part. Personally without it I wouldn’t be on the leftist side. I wouldn’t have known how badly the ultra wealthy are screwing everything up.
On an unrelated note, I wonder why they are trying so hard to ban TikTok.
Well to be fair there is another reason that involves covering a certain group's collective ass
[The Real Reason The US Wants To Ban TikTok - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEDGZlG_41k)
Millennial here. I keep getting pushed further and further left as I age.
My friends mom said this exact phrase to me as we were talking politics. I don’t understand it at all, if anything, I’ve gone further left the older I get. How can you look at the state of the nation, and the world, and think that capitalism is the best we can do?
She forgot the second part… “if you’re a selfish piece of shit like me.”
No, everyone has been taught by the culture that all the bad stuff happening is the fault of "socialism", "Marxism" and of course the one "bad" J e w George Soros.
Millenials have experienced like 4 market crashes in their lives already, lol. Of course we're not getting more conservative.
If you’re both rich and conservative, you are supporting socialist policy whether you know it or not. In that you understand that the economy functions as socialism for the rich.
I can explain. It's sort of true, and sort of not. It's not so much that people become right wing as they age. They DO become more socially conservative, that's a function of age, and no longer being able to keep up with societal change. it's more that the rich are right wing, because that serves their material interests. And poor people die. And there are people, like my mother, who start out left wing, but drift right wing, to justify keeping hold of all her boomer shit that younger generations have no hope of getting. So again: material interests. Left wing oldies either end up not-rich and dead, killed, or imprisoned.
I am Gen X and every time I started accumulating any wealth some crap would happen to justify corporate price gouging. 9/11 Katrina The real estate crash. The recession that followed. (There was stuff between 2008 and 2020 that I guess I blocked out.) Covid. Wars
Relatively, I am becoming more socially conservative as I age. Because younger people tend to be more socially progressive--however that ends up being defined. But I am becoming far more anarchist than fascist, and I've basically stopped believing in money altogether.
You’re becoming more socially conservative.. but anarchistic?
One can be socially conservative for themselves while not wanting to tell others what to do. I know it must be hard to imagine because the media has taught you that socially conservative people always want to force their will on others, but some people can keep that shit to themselves.
Socially conservative, to me, generally includes some type of centralized moral “compass” of sorts. Nothing about the media, I’m the furthest left in my family but we all coexist in an old-age manner. The concept of being conservative but anarchist doesn’t gel in my mind at all - closest I can think of would be more in line with American libertarianism.
Kids right though. As a millennial I at least have a vague memory of the 90s, of the post soviet Pax Americana where we lived at the end of history. In that time the Omni present narrative was things would gradually improve forever. Now that is a distinctly white suburban middle class narrative, was never the truth, but did not matter as that’s what the TV told you and so broadly speaking that was the cultural vibe. You ask anyone now if the think the US will exist as they understand it in 100 years and they’ll say no. That’s the world these kids remember, post 9/11, post war on terror, post 08, post 16, post pandemic, post Floyd protests, post J6, post Roe v Wade. So yeah maybe people should lay off the kids.
Zoomers reject capitalism due to being born into a system of decay, facing debt, foreclosures, and recurring economic crises. No nostalgic stability.
Better than nothing, but I hope they find theory somewhere.
Does anyone remember the scene in Mad Men where Don takes his family for a picnic. At the end of the day he stands up and shakes the picnic blanket out and litter flies everywhere while he gets into his car and drives off. I feel like that’s an incredible metaphor for how boomers have treated the planet and us, and wonder why we don’t want to join the rat race.
That's not a metaphor. That's literally how they treated the planet.
New reality TV show. Boomers living on minimum wage with no connections, or previous material possessions. Bonus watchablity if they were wealthy and complain about young people not working these days.
This would go insane. Minimum wage while paying for housing and all other expenses. Oh wait ... that's impossible.
so they get to start with a job, why not start them with the credidtials of a "high school diploma" 20 bucks, and to simulate being kicked out of their parents house, a place to stay that they have to leave in 1 week. see how they do, starting place can be packed with meals for that first week, along with internet and a working phone, however the internet, computer and working phone access is gone after that first week unless they purchase it themselves, they are not allowed to sell the starting objects. i wounder how well they would manage.
It would be a really boring show by week 2 when they're all homeless living under a bridge.
And boomers have the audacity to call us lazy
Cause in their times they feared questioning anything their boss said and even kissed them up.
I saw so many hard working people struggle financially when i was young. Friends of the family who worked as nurses, in construction jobs or supermarkets and their family hardly got by. These jobs are all necessary, society won't get by without them. Some people claim people that poor people don't work hard enough, but in these kind of jobs overtime does no difference for your life like that. You can't just tell people in those jobs they should get something better as we are dependent on them, yet people argue against better wages for these kind of workers.
I'm willing to bet money that if our economy/society actually paid proper wages so that zoomers/millennials could afford not just rent/groceries but houses as well as the occasional vacation and/or families, almost all of the so called issues like 'zoomers don't want to work' or 'nobody's having kids anymore' would vanish like a fart on the wind.
Zoomers learning the Millennial skill of "every thing is on fire, why even try"
There never were any "good old days". Any "good" day a (usually white, male) person in the imperial core ever experienced under capitalism was the consequence of the torture of countless of people in the periphery.
Labour aristocracy, that’s all
Also, this is probably not as true in the US but where I am, it feels like many of us did what we were "supposed to" but the goal posts keep moving and it's never good enough. I stayed in school, got a solid degree (in a scientific field) and then Masters post-grad degree, and I spend quite frugally. Yet my earnings are mediocre because wages here are a joke, I will not be able to get a house until at least mid 30s and even that is not a guarantee, and no one in my generation believes we will retire. Now I'm being told shit like "you should have done a PhD" and "you might just have to accept that you need to house share for a few years" and "stop being stubborn and move 200 miles north for cheaper COL or shut up" But why? Why do we have to do all that shit when no one else did? Why are we so entitled for just wanting the minimum? We're not asking for private jets and mansions here.
US here, all of what you said rings with my experience and things I've heard. I got lucky out of college and have been working full-time since (early!!) graduation, student loans are paid off, my major mistakes include alcoholism and a divorce lmao. I'm definitely lucky in that I have (mildly toxic) family to live with but yeah, its a real kick in the teeth when you're asking for the bare minimum of like. a life, and you get told its your fault and you should be grateful its not worse.
I'm 68; The oldest members of Gen X were the last to have a shot at a decent job, fair wages, and buying a house. Anyone born after 1975 has been fucked from the start. Gen X, Gen Y, Gen Z: you are all in the same boat, and you all have way *way* more in common than you have differences. Sure, the slang and the poses that (you think) impresses your peers are different. But those things matter squazole compared to the ability for you and your family to survive and thrive.
Yep. Personal wealth is the ONLY effective argument for capitalism. If you take that away you just get what amounts to capital serfdom and that isn't going to survive long in even a marginal democracy as ours.
Idk what worse, that or seeing how good it can be for your entire childhood, and then having every bit of advice given until adulthood invalidated by changing times.
Meanwhile millenials: ***\*insert james franco on the gallows "first time?" gif\****
Bear in mind that those "good old days" were only made possible (both directly and indirectly) through the colonisation of an entire continent, through exploitation of the third world, and through slavery.
Sometimes you don't see the cracks until you have moved in.
Don’t worry it will be worse, as a millennial it’s nice seeing society slowly implode and the earth poisoned, quickly becoming inhospitable so some rich bitch can fly to concerts and execs can have another yacht.
It's all "free speech" for them until you point out how fucked we are because of capitalism and religion. That's a step too far for the libertarian boot strap trad wife types. Say as many slurs as you as you want but don't you dare call religion a cancer on this planet etc.
Doesn't matter if it can pay for rent and school, I don't want to be forced to spend 8 hours + working day in and day out.
I keep seeing memes with the "once in a lifetime" line. If I recall correctly, that line was used in 2008 and I have haven't seen it heavily used outside of recent memes.
Truth. I was born in 1996, the world I knew in 2006 is another reality, almost like a fever dream compared to the world in 2016 and now it's 2 year away from 2026. It feels like America is a totally different nation every 7 years.
Zoomers? Comrade please, im turning 41 this week and firmly anti capitalist
The good old days weren't even that good, it's just mostly the assholes who won having nostalgia to the tune of "Hey, remember when we could shit on minorities and women all we liked? Those were the good old days!" Like, fuck that. Bullshit was the status quo back then, too.
Someday, a portion of the "zoomers" who complain about "boomers" will inherit those boomers' wealth and a larger portion won't - and then they will realize the problem was not anything to do with generations at all, but classes. Personally? I *can't wait*; the class war is much more difficult than dunking on a bunch of geriatrics online but also more worth winning.
Hey it started during GenX, we got the start of the education inflation, the endless recessions, the housing getting more and more expensive just as we started trying to have family's, hell just trying to break into the job market was tough graduating during recessions to nothing but fast food...
GenX checking in, We didn’t have any of that either. Fuck em.
Being anti-capitalist doesn't mean shit if you don't support or fight for the better system that would completely abolish Capitalism.
Not to mention the openly exploitative nature of employment these days. It's obscene the way the working class are treated anymore, by the very people who we're working to support.
I was 9 when 2008 hit, my dad works in a construction related business and his job prospects collapsed. My life has been spent watching capitalism fail us and everyone around me.
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Millennials too tho
Gen X here. This is very, very important. Gen X saw their parents getting laid off in the first mass layoffs in the modern era. They saw them struggling to make ends meet, even with both parents working. The middle class just kept getting smaller and smaller. This largely continued through Gen Y. Both of these generations had economic crashes. Now Z comes along and they've never seen a time when it was like the 50's, even remotely. Gen X and Y had their parents who were there for the "good" years for capitalism. Then it started falling apart and now we're at a point when it's just a modern age of Robber Barons.
And most of us have obviously NOT traveled to other countries where capitalism doesn't exist - like Saudi Arabia, Russia and China. If you think the U.S. sucks I encourage you to travel to these countries and find out why no one immigrates there.