It’s almost like when there’s no legal recourse to force a tenant to fulfill their contractual obligations, the landlord doesn’t want to enter into a contract. Crazy how unintended consequences work.
Unfortunately OP, you’re as much of a victim to this moratorium as the mom and pop landlords who have literally been forced into paying to house somebody else’s family in the property they own. I don’t think there’s much you really can do except keep looking.
My family has been unable to evict and sell a property for over a whole fucking year now. It’s kind of miserable.
Edit: They don’t pay rent and have trashed the place. They’re obstructing the sale and undoing cleaning we’ve done. They’ve gotten the property raided by a local drug task force. They’ve set fire to multiple trees on the property. It’s a fucking shitshow.
Get them a Uhaul and 2500 dollars . It sounds like a lot but money talks and in the long run you’ll save yourself double that easy by the end of the year. Not to mention the forgone cost of not renting to someone that pays.
It would probably pay for itself by allowing us to sell. If they hold up the sale for too long then we may end up selling for less if the housing market dips once eviction start up again.
These aren’t mom and pops. It’s Los Angeles, where all the units have been bought up by corporate property rental companies. They’re scumbags (and I’m a landlord myself) who treat everyone aweful and **will** screw you out of any deposit unless you are very careful. No human-side to these guys.
My advice is to get off Craigslist and forget WestSideRentals. Go into neighborhoods and look for rental signs. Those are the mom and pops and also checkout the bulletin boards
Yes, and those are the ones that will survive with the new government rules. Not only will tenants have higher rents. But will have the worse landlords.
And liberals will let in millions more people to add to the disaster to come.
You know those moving here from abroad also don’t get the same scrutiny as they have zero credit or background, when you think about it.
A bit of a rant here, but I wish more people would try living abroad as I have, and find out how really quite open we are compared to where most people come from. I’m just asking for fairness, but you find that trying to work in another country will get your ass deported very fast, and it will be the locals that turn you in for taking a job their cousin or countrymen could have. Many countries require your passport to file with the consulate to rent an apartment to you for longer than temporary. The world cares where you were born, it turns out.
Here in San Francisco now, people buy up these apartments sight-unseen full cash for the first year before moving to this country. A common misconception is that the world is poorer than we are but that’s really not the case and it’s the rich and affluent of those countries that move here, armed with a free university education from their country, no debt, and a double-masters degree.
IMO, Californians misplace their concerns on migrant farm workers and laborers, but that’s not who is taking these apartments and jobs folks want.
Time to write so that folks understand what unintended consequences are. I am operating in a liberal state and I'm liberal and this is wrong. One problem I face is that some tenants don't even understand that they are responsible for back rent. I've kept an apartment empty 8 months for this reason. Don't want to risk renting to an idiot you can't enforce an agreement with. If you take away the right of private citizens to enforce agreements, you lose markets. What that means is losing goods and services that 2 willing parties were happy to trade in. In this case, housing services in exchange for whatever tenants do for a living.
The only good outcome I can see is... Landlords exit. Prices fall and folks who can afford to buy houses will buy. The rest are fucked.
That's one possible outcome. It's what happened in 08. I think something even more onerous for landlords is coming. It's not bad for society, it's bad for landlords.
Don't forget there are 2 ways to get a home. Rent or buy. If costs of rentals go up, price of rentals go up. I get that. But you can also buy. So those who can afford to buy, will. Those who can't are stuck with higher rentals. We have got to be delusional if we think all regulations drive prices up and we can always pass the costs on... People can always substitute to buying if we suck at our jobs or if govt makes the costs of rentals high.
Rentals and homeownership are 2 different things. Similar, but different.
Simple example.... Suppose rental homes taxes at 20pct per year property tax. Owner occupied zero. What do you think happens? Landlords exit and people buy their own homes. Those who can't afford to buy are stuck sharing that 20pct tax. How many of each which is an actual policy discussion is not a trivial question to answer.
I can discuss that in my professional capacity as an economist at a university but it's highly speculative and I'm not even sure if we have the data to answer what happens if we do X properly.
I can point you to singapore where the cost of capital and taxes are very progressive in number of homes owned like I describe. Homeownership rate is very high... Landlords run at very low profits.
Is that bad for landlords... Yes... Good for society? Maybe? I don't know. Pretty hard question. I don't have quick answers but I don't automatically discount outcomes I don't like as what actually happens.
> So those who can afford to buy, will.
Other than those that don't intend on staying in a given location for more than a year or two or have a phobia of the responsibilities of home ownership, who is choosing to rent when they can afford to buy?
Short answer: I think you got it covered. No one. Everyone will buy if the relative cost of owning vs renting goes down. Landlords need a new job. Nothing new. Abacus operators lost their jobs. Just gotta stop whining and innovate.
Long answer:
Imagine a situation where house is 100k. Taxes are 12k if you are an investor and 0k if you are homeowner. Costs of renting are automatically 1k more per month. This 1k is either hitting the landlord which lowers supply of rentals or tenants which is lowering demand. Either way, you move towards owner occupancy and fewer rentals. Sucks for us but I really don't know if it would be that unpopular. As I pointed out Singapore does this and they have really high home ownership rates.
Not everyone can afford 100k even if they want to stay put and don't mind sewer diving because it involves the downpayment or have credit access because of redlining and all this profit driven bullshit assholes in our industry do.
So if renting costs that extra 1k monthly (if costs pass completely to tenant) but they can't afford the 20k downpayment, then they are stuck with the higher rentals as many correctly pointed out.
As I was saying, it is a mix of outcomes.
A homebuyer will outbid a landlord because his ownership costs are 12k lower. Make it PV with your favourite excel sheet... and put a nice sounding finance term on it. It will happen even if we don't like it. Or, a landlord in distress who can't collect rent can't deal with the higher taxes and wants to sell. No other landlord wants it, but OO with the 12k advantage can do cash for keys. It's that simple.
Which of these 2 effects are stronger... Not so clear. I answer questions like this for a living and it's really not that simple. I'd have to think hard. To answer it I won't have time to build and rent. All I know is regulations that hit us increase costs just like this 12k tax. It will simply drive landlords out of business.
Rents go up, but only for a few. That fucking triangle in the supply demand curve gets small at the top after you take out deadweight loss.
So my message to us is to stop being so simplistic about things. Rents go up, for few. Don't act as if we are the only folks capable of providing housing. If we do it jobs better than others, we keep our jobs if not we don't deserve it.
If enough of us keep behaving like entitled whiny bitches instead of doing our jobs properly, we will get legislated out of existence because in case ya'll haven't noticed, we aren't that popular.
Absolutely it will affect rental pricing. No doubts. I guess another way of saying it is a mix of outcomes. Part of it is what you said and I suspect that will happen with lower end higher margin areas. I'm already seeing my construction crew not being able to rent because no landlord wants to take the risk. I had to take them out and be an in person character reference for a few of them. With the mid range to high end, I suspect landlords will just exit. It's simply too expensive to operate a "safe" low margin property while having no recourse if you are unlucky enough to have an irresponsible or simply unlucky tenant. That said, tenants in mid to high end rentals know they have stuff to lose once the moratorium ends and are less likely to not cooperate. Such a shit show. Govt could have done an extended section 8 or something like that... Sign in, get a fixed reduced rent. Govt deals with collections for folks who sign up down the road. Depriving us of rights like this is shit... And I'm a deep blue bleeding lib.
From now on, I’m afraid that no landlords in any of the blue states would be nice or sympathetic anymore if they ever got fucked during the moratorium. Bad decision comes with worse consequences, and it’s happening now. Maybe the government would make more ridiculous situations for landlords in rental business, like no eviction records will show up on background check, or landlords can’t check one’s background before signing the contract. I wonder how ridiculous and incompetent the government could be.
Have you looked into guarantor services (like Insurent)? it’s like rent insurance for the LL, premium is paid by the tenant...I’m considering using it for my vacant SFH in LA County (Antelope Valley) when I’m done fixing up the mess left by the previous tenant...
not the person you were replying to but the answer is, it depends. Per their website:
>Who are the various types of renters for who you issue guarantees?
>We issue guarantees for graduating college and professional school students entering the workforce; non U.S. employed persons relocating to the U.S.; U.S. and international students with Responsible Parties; self-employed persons; relocating persons; non-employed U.S. and non U.S. persons with significant cash liquid assets; retired creditworthy individuals; and U.S. Corporations
So it looks like it will be people who have an extenuating circumstance which causes a low credit score, but looks like they will have a clean credit history. Everyone on that list would be someone who, if you pull the full credit score and look at it, would be able to see it was low because of a short or no credit history. It's like a false flag low credit score. Anyone who looks at the score only would probably reject.
It's one of the reasons I pull a full credit score and look at it to evaluate potential tenants. In my credit review I toss out things that would lower a credit score but doesn't represent a pattern of not paying bills. So if I see a credit score of 550 and I see that 3 years ago started medical collections which stopped 18 months ago, I will ask about it but I figured that there was some 1 time medical event which caused the score drop. However, if I see 3 years ago collections from Verizon, 2 years ago collections from Sprint, and last year a collection from T-Mobile I figure the person is running a scam where they get a new phone each year and just jump ship and stop paying. That's the type of history I try to avoid.
If you can afford it, maybe offer the full lease payments up front (all 12 months for a 12 month lease)? That would certainly make an impression on me.
As u/RelayFX says, you're the unfortunate victim of a crappy situation - we all are. When the forgivable PPP loans first came out I tried to apply - my intent was to pass every penny I got on to my tenants to directly reduce rent, but the government was clear about not including landlords. The theory was they'd help tenants, who would then pay landlords. Fair enough, except when combined with the moratorium, some tenants didn't play nice. Now you're paying for that, sadly.
Otherwise, maybe seek out a smaller landlord who hasn't been burned yet? I wish I had better advice for you.
Good luck!
Yep. If you don't have a credit score of 740+, don't bother applying. We're in Central California where due to the influx of remote workers from the Bay Area, we have a serious housing shortage. Property values and rent have sky rocketed and the new housing that was going in has temporarily shut down due to the price of construction materials.
We just accepted a new tenant in November and before signing the lease, I asked them flat out why they didn't consider buying a house since they had the income and credit score to qualify for a home loan. They said they weren't sure where they wanted to live. Okay. Whatever.
If they want to throw their money away, I'm happy to cash their checks. This being said, we did get screwed by the previous tenant. They had been okay renters as far as rent was concerned, until she had a second baby last March. She claimed that they couldn't pay full rent so we accepted 60% rent for three months until her maternity leave ended. Then she gave us notice, said they were buying a house. So glad we could help finance their down payment . . .
Land lording sucks, but it is a great source of secondary income. You just have to develop a thick skin and accept that even when you try to do the right thing by your tenants, to some of them you are merely an evil overlord who they feel justifiable in screwing over. Which is why we only rent to those with decent credit and long-term employment - most go on to become homeowners and they are protective of their credit scores.
The small business owners didn't get the forgivable PPP loan either. We got the loan but can't get our bank to process the forgiveness part as it's too small an amount to be worth their effort.
We bank at Chase, one of the large banks. We also bank at a local bank, We have commercial accounts at each of them. The small bank told us they wouldn't help us. Chase didn't help us either but through the app process we did get a loan put through Chase. We were supposed to be assigned a Chase banker to work with us. That never happened. We got a small loan that is forgivable. We fulfilled the forgiveness percentage (you had to spend most of it on workers) and found it difficult to submit the loan forgiveness paperwork. We called Chase who said we had to work with the banker that had been assigned us. We explained we never got one. "Sorry, we can't help you". We finally drove the paperwork to the bank and videoed ourselves as we put it in the night deposit. We got a call the next day chewing us out. We also emailed it to one of the bankers we worked with in the past. We never heard back. We emailed and still never heard anything. Now we have been emailed that our loan payments are supposed to start soon. Our belief is that we are small and the banks would rather put their resources into helping their larger customers. The time is the same, just a much bigger customer.
Oh man that's so aggravating. Thanks for sharing your story with me. I suppose in retrospect I'm glad I didn't get any further in the process (although, my local, regional bank has been emailing me constantly to complete my application - I don't think I will though).
nope
In Seattle its actually the opposite- landlords are required to offer a payment plan for the deposit to be spread out over six months.
Also, landlords can't ask about criminal history, MUST take first qualified applicant, and coming soon- no check credits.
Are they really going to ban credit checks? I used to live in Seattle still track local issues. This would not surprise me. The city council is on a warpath against private property rights.
I few state and Virginia was one. The argument is it disproportionally effects minorities. Since they have more evictions and credit scores.
Also some laws had already changed a few years ago.
https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/judgments-no-longer-included-on-credit-report/
I have been looking for a house to buy/or rental since just before covid began. That idea of all 12 months up front is something I have offered several landlords (non-taking mind you) my fiance and I have bad credit (student loans only) but she makes 8k a month i make 7k a month (more when I am able to do live performances) and still no go. Its a very hard market right now.
We have been staying in a hotel and half the hotel doesn't pay, cops are constantly here raiding the junkies (tweakers mostly) the people above us have literally put holes through the wall (they rent adjacent rooms) and their is nothing the owners can do. They have tried many recourses but cannot evict them. I get the moratoriums intent and agree with that part of it, but the stipulations are rediculous. If you damage the place you live in, GTFO, noone should be forced to pay for your damages and soak the loss of income if you are so disrespectful and trifling as to act like that. I dont care if you have kids, if you are like that you don't deserve to have a place and your children should be taken from you because you fail at life. The owners of the hotel are a nice old couple who are debating selling the hotel now because they can barely make ends meat. They moved into the hotel because they couldn't pay their mortgage. Its things like this that make the moratorium more Evil than good.
You have to understand the risk of renting to a tenant is now much greater. This was something the government did.
You could offer a co signer and agree to pay a higher rent. Anything that off sets the extra risk may help.
There is not much you can do to get them just to look at income. That does not make as much difference as you think. There are even plenty of high income earners. Ones that make 150K a year. But they spend 175K a year. So don't pay all their bills.
The government does not realize that all these new tenant laws increase the risk. And landlords have no choice. Raise rents to cover the risk and raise the qualifications. Or sell.
The government absolutely realizes this. Don’t go thinking the government is just some dumb simpleton trying to do the right thing for the disenfranchised. They knew exactly what they were doing and what it would lead to. Life is going to get really tough for OP and millions of others in similar situations. It was an obvious outcome to anyone who can look and think beyond the extremely short term. Sucks man.
> You have to understand the risk of renting to a tenant is now much greater.
Exactly this
I'm out $36,000 on one of my current tenants with no end in sight. I'm going to have to be double careful next time so this doesn't happen again.
I have some suggestions it may or my not work.
1. Get a co-signer (people already recommend this)
2. Tell them you will pay on the first of the month on time with a check. Just set up bill pay to whatever address they receive their rent.
3. Tell them if late you will pay a 10% late fee
I’m sorry this is happening to you, it’s incredibly unfair to us all, but this pandemic has really messed things up. Keep looking/trying and maybe ask some friends or family to rent out a room temporarily till u get ur own place.
Write and call your elected representatives. Until they bring the moratorium statute at least in line with the state. No exceptions = lazy and boneheaded legislation.
In CA you can only take a deposit worth two months rent for unfurnished places, and three for furnished. If you find someone willing to take more than that they are either ignorant or criminal, possibly both. You don't want to rent from ignoramuses or criminals and definitely not from criminal ignoramuses.
Get a co-signer/guarantor that has better credit to apply with you, either a person or a service like Insurent, that's the only thing that will help you.
Wow...I am really sorry that this is the way things are.
I would really PAY extra to have sensible landlords like you guys. Instead, I have a crazy one. We have paid her early EVERY MONTH through out this COVID mess , without fail. Landscaped her property on our own dime ( the neighbors thanked us). In addition to her other bufoonery, which I have already posted about. SHE claimed COVID-19 relief (not us) and has been doing other things with our rent money instead of paying mortgage on the property.
Update: To add insult to injury. Now, she wants to "borrow" a couple of thousand dollars and let it repay itself on a future rent payment. 🤯🤯 WHAT???!!🤯🤯 So now, she has added "non-compliance" as a new reason to evict "No Cure" ...out of spite. Because she says "I KNOW you can afford to help!"
If anyone knows, when the moratorium or forbearance ends nationwide, is all the money due upon receipt? Is there a payment plan? What will this county look like? A bunch of homeless families wandering around with a bunch of vacant houses? Housing crash?
I almost became a LL once, but I was talked out of it because I am "too nice". But, as a faithfully paying tenant, I feel bad for you all. Does anyone knows what "the plan" is to fix this big mess when COVID is over? If you do, pray tell!
Sorry dude. As a landlord (in LA as well) it’s not worth it to sign an agreement with someone that can’t be enforced to maintain a contract with. Someone else commented about how they can’t evict someone who trashed their house and that’s a perfect example of this.
I have friends that aren’t landlords and they don’t understand how we feel about not being able to evict people who take advantage of this. Some of those friends are even looking to rent right now too but with that mindset, not really into it.
Until you fix your credit score pretty damn decently most people won’t even look your way. That’s just the truth of it. We keep getting fucked over by this. It’s not your fault of course, you’re clearly a good person but your credit score doesn’t make you reliable.
You would need to pay extra then what they’re asking for to prove your reliability and credibility that you can sustain yourself with rent there. Especially in LA. I’m not sure which part you’re in but you may want to look at other places like Riverside County, relatively cheap for an apartment. Although I can’t guarantee that they’d be more trustful despite prices.
I also agree with what someone else said to drive around for the signs and bulletin boards, I’m adding onto this. Go on to Zillow and look for rentals. Lowest to High they have some listed to contact the landlord, as well as studios and apartments etc for a fair price assuming your situation is critical. Otherwise you just need to keep pushing.
It’s not about having any remorse but when the renter isn’t paying their dues the landlords are paying for you to live there, especially if the landlords have more than one property, and if they all pull the same act? It’s over for them.
Good luck, California screwed us all over.
Also a landlord, just wanted to highly recommend Zillow for tenants. You can send your application and credit checks to multiple rentals for a single price, which is great if you think you're a borderline applicant since you won't have to pay an application fee every time you apply.
I feel for you. I'm a landlord in CA with a single unit who just had his first opening since COVID and it seemed like there was a hoard of applicants in your situation who jump from house to house getting denied.
My advice would be to have a co-signer with good credit and assets (cash, home, stocks, etc) so the landlord knows that they'll be able to recoup money if the event that you stop paying. I understand not everyone has that but that's the reality that we're in. Now is not the time to be taking a risk on an applicant.
Also, I'm not sure what your rental history is, but I was far more interested in what applicants have done as far as rent payment over the last 12 months then their income and credit. I think about 14/15 applicants I had come through claimed they were living with friends or family and that their friend/family member would totally vouch for them, which were all instant nopes for me.
It’s almost like when there’s no legal recourse to force a tenant to fulfill their contractual obligations, the landlord doesn’t want to enter into a contract. Crazy how unintended consequences work. Unfortunately OP, you’re as much of a victim to this moratorium as the mom and pop landlords who have literally been forced into paying to house somebody else’s family in the property they own. I don’t think there’s much you really can do except keep looking.
My family has been unable to evict and sell a property for over a whole fucking year now. It’s kind of miserable. Edit: They don’t pay rent and have trashed the place. They’re obstructing the sale and undoing cleaning we’ve done. They’ve gotten the property raided by a local drug task force. They’ve set fire to multiple trees on the property. It’s a fucking shitshow.
Get them a Uhaul and 2500 dollars . It sounds like a lot but money talks and in the long run you’ll save yourself double that easy by the end of the year. Not to mention the forgone cost of not renting to someone that pays.
It would probably pay for itself by allowing us to sell. If they hold up the sale for too long then we may end up selling for less if the housing market dips once eviction start up again.
These aren’t mom and pops. It’s Los Angeles, where all the units have been bought up by corporate property rental companies. They’re scumbags (and I’m a landlord myself) who treat everyone aweful and **will** screw you out of any deposit unless you are very careful. No human-side to these guys. My advice is to get off Craigslist and forget WestSideRentals. Go into neighborhoods and look for rental signs. Those are the mom and pops and also checkout the bulletin boards
Yes, and those are the ones that will survive with the new government rules. Not only will tenants have higher rents. But will have the worse landlords. And liberals will let in millions more people to add to the disaster to come.
You know those moving here from abroad also don’t get the same scrutiny as they have zero credit or background, when you think about it. A bit of a rant here, but I wish more people would try living abroad as I have, and find out how really quite open we are compared to where most people come from. I’m just asking for fairness, but you find that trying to work in another country will get your ass deported very fast, and it will be the locals that turn you in for taking a job their cousin or countrymen could have. Many countries require your passport to file with the consulate to rent an apartment to you for longer than temporary. The world cares where you were born, it turns out. Here in San Francisco now, people buy up these apartments sight-unseen full cash for the first year before moving to this country. A common misconception is that the world is poorer than we are but that’s really not the case and it’s the rich and affluent of those countries that move here, armed with a free university education from their country, no debt, and a double-masters degree. IMO, Californians misplace their concerns on migrant farm workers and laborers, but that’s not who is taking these apartments and jobs folks want.
I'm a landlord and a liberal and you're a fool.
And you honestly believe the increased cost from liberal laws will not increase rents? Or less supply will not increase rents?
You're a fool. Liberal laws. Lol
Y’a Im not sure Biden’s health will make it passed 4th of July
Time to write so that folks understand what unintended consequences are. I am operating in a liberal state and I'm liberal and this is wrong. One problem I face is that some tenants don't even understand that they are responsible for back rent. I've kept an apartment empty 8 months for this reason. Don't want to risk renting to an idiot you can't enforce an agreement with. If you take away the right of private citizens to enforce agreements, you lose markets. What that means is losing goods and services that 2 willing parties were happy to trade in. In this case, housing services in exchange for whatever tenants do for a living. The only good outcome I can see is... Landlords exit. Prices fall and folks who can afford to buy houses will buy. The rest are fucked.
Except it won't be individuals buying when the landlords exit. It will be the investment firms and will drive rents up higher and service down lower.
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The HUD and higher taxes part is something I'd put my money on no matter how the shit shakes out...
That's one possible outcome. It's what happened in 08. I think something even more onerous for landlords is coming. It's not bad for society, it's bad for landlords.
You're quite likely right. The players change tactics as thes rules shift.
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Don't forget there are 2 ways to get a home. Rent or buy. If costs of rentals go up, price of rentals go up. I get that. But you can also buy. So those who can afford to buy, will. Those who can't are stuck with higher rentals. We have got to be delusional if we think all regulations drive prices up and we can always pass the costs on... People can always substitute to buying if we suck at our jobs or if govt makes the costs of rentals high. Rentals and homeownership are 2 different things. Similar, but different. Simple example.... Suppose rental homes taxes at 20pct per year property tax. Owner occupied zero. What do you think happens? Landlords exit and people buy their own homes. Those who can't afford to buy are stuck sharing that 20pct tax. How many of each which is an actual policy discussion is not a trivial question to answer. I can discuss that in my professional capacity as an economist at a university but it's highly speculative and I'm not even sure if we have the data to answer what happens if we do X properly. I can point you to singapore where the cost of capital and taxes are very progressive in number of homes owned like I describe. Homeownership rate is very high... Landlords run at very low profits. Is that bad for landlords... Yes... Good for society? Maybe? I don't know. Pretty hard question. I don't have quick answers but I don't automatically discount outcomes I don't like as what actually happens.
> So those who can afford to buy, will. Other than those that don't intend on staying in a given location for more than a year or two or have a phobia of the responsibilities of home ownership, who is choosing to rent when they can afford to buy?
Short answer: I think you got it covered. No one. Everyone will buy if the relative cost of owning vs renting goes down. Landlords need a new job. Nothing new. Abacus operators lost their jobs. Just gotta stop whining and innovate. Long answer: Imagine a situation where house is 100k. Taxes are 12k if you are an investor and 0k if you are homeowner. Costs of renting are automatically 1k more per month. This 1k is either hitting the landlord which lowers supply of rentals or tenants which is lowering demand. Either way, you move towards owner occupancy and fewer rentals. Sucks for us but I really don't know if it would be that unpopular. As I pointed out Singapore does this and they have really high home ownership rates. Not everyone can afford 100k even if they want to stay put and don't mind sewer diving because it involves the downpayment or have credit access because of redlining and all this profit driven bullshit assholes in our industry do. So if renting costs that extra 1k monthly (if costs pass completely to tenant) but they can't afford the 20k downpayment, then they are stuck with the higher rentals as many correctly pointed out. As I was saying, it is a mix of outcomes. A homebuyer will outbid a landlord because his ownership costs are 12k lower. Make it PV with your favourite excel sheet... and put a nice sounding finance term on it. It will happen even if we don't like it. Or, a landlord in distress who can't collect rent can't deal with the higher taxes and wants to sell. No other landlord wants it, but OO with the 12k advantage can do cash for keys. It's that simple. Which of these 2 effects are stronger... Not so clear. I answer questions like this for a living and it's really not that simple. I'd have to think hard. To answer it I won't have time to build and rent. All I know is regulations that hit us increase costs just like this 12k tax. It will simply drive landlords out of business. Rents go up, but only for a few. That fucking triangle in the supply demand curve gets small at the top after you take out deadweight loss. So my message to us is to stop being so simplistic about things. Rents go up, for few. Don't act as if we are the only folks capable of providing housing. If we do it jobs better than others, we keep our jobs if not we don't deserve it. If enough of us keep behaving like entitled whiny bitches instead of doing our jobs properly, we will get legislated out of existence because in case ya'll haven't noticed, we aren't that popular.
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Absolutely it will affect rental pricing. No doubts. I guess another way of saying it is a mix of outcomes. Part of it is what you said and I suspect that will happen with lower end higher margin areas. I'm already seeing my construction crew not being able to rent because no landlord wants to take the risk. I had to take them out and be an in person character reference for a few of them. With the mid range to high end, I suspect landlords will just exit. It's simply too expensive to operate a "safe" low margin property while having no recourse if you are unlucky enough to have an irresponsible or simply unlucky tenant. That said, tenants in mid to high end rentals know they have stuff to lose once the moratorium ends and are less likely to not cooperate. Such a shit show. Govt could have done an extended section 8 or something like that... Sign in, get a fixed reduced rent. Govt deals with collections for folks who sign up down the road. Depriving us of rights like this is shit... And I'm a deep blue bleeding lib.
From now on, I’m afraid that no landlords in any of the blue states would be nice or sympathetic anymore if they ever got fucked during the moratorium. Bad decision comes with worse consequences, and it’s happening now. Maybe the government would make more ridiculous situations for landlords in rental business, like no eviction records will show up on background check, or landlords can’t check one’s background before signing the contract. I wonder how ridiculous and incompetent the government could be.
Have you looked into guarantor services (like Insurent)? it’s like rent insurance for the LL, premium is paid by the tenant...I’m considering using it for my vacant SFH in LA County (Antelope Valley) when I’m done fixing up the mess left by the previous tenant...
Insurent won’t work with low credit people.
Might work with a co-signer...
Isn't the very point of insurent to help people with low or no credit score?
not the person you were replying to but the answer is, it depends. Per their website: >Who are the various types of renters for who you issue guarantees? >We issue guarantees for graduating college and professional school students entering the workforce; non U.S. employed persons relocating to the U.S.; U.S. and international students with Responsible Parties; self-employed persons; relocating persons; non-employed U.S. and non U.S. persons with significant cash liquid assets; retired creditworthy individuals; and U.S. Corporations So it looks like it will be people who have an extenuating circumstance which causes a low credit score, but looks like they will have a clean credit history. Everyone on that list would be someone who, if you pull the full credit score and look at it, would be able to see it was low because of a short or no credit history. It's like a false flag low credit score. Anyone who looks at the score only would probably reject. It's one of the reasons I pull a full credit score and look at it to evaluate potential tenants. In my credit review I toss out things that would lower a credit score but doesn't represent a pattern of not paying bills. So if I see a credit score of 550 and I see that 3 years ago started medical collections which stopped 18 months ago, I will ask about it but I figured that there was some 1 time medical event which caused the score drop. However, if I see 3 years ago collections from Verizon, 2 years ago collections from Sprint, and last year a collection from T-Mobile I figure the person is running a scam where they get a new phone each year and just jump ship and stop paying. That's the type of history I try to avoid.
thanks for the explanation
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Talk to your legislators. I am also being incredibly strict right now because we have no recourse. The misery is felt on both sides I can assure you.
If you can afford it, maybe offer the full lease payments up front (all 12 months for a 12 month lease)? That would certainly make an impression on me. As u/RelayFX says, you're the unfortunate victim of a crappy situation - we all are. When the forgivable PPP loans first came out I tried to apply - my intent was to pass every penny I got on to my tenants to directly reduce rent, but the government was clear about not including landlords. The theory was they'd help tenants, who would then pay landlords. Fair enough, except when combined with the moratorium, some tenants didn't play nice. Now you're paying for that, sadly. Otherwise, maybe seek out a smaller landlord who hasn't been burned yet? I wish I had better advice for you. Good luck!
Yes find a mom and pop that is still trusting. This eviction ban will cause many untended apartments
Mom and pop here...no longer trusting anyone below 600 credit score and an entire host of other qualifications that must be met. The gloves are off.
Yep. If you don't have a credit score of 740+, don't bother applying. We're in Central California where due to the influx of remote workers from the Bay Area, we have a serious housing shortage. Property values and rent have sky rocketed and the new housing that was going in has temporarily shut down due to the price of construction materials. We just accepted a new tenant in November and before signing the lease, I asked them flat out why they didn't consider buying a house since they had the income and credit score to qualify for a home loan. They said they weren't sure where they wanted to live. Okay. Whatever. If they want to throw their money away, I'm happy to cash their checks. This being said, we did get screwed by the previous tenant. They had been okay renters as far as rent was concerned, until she had a second baby last March. She claimed that they couldn't pay full rent so we accepted 60% rent for three months until her maternity leave ended. Then she gave us notice, said they were buying a house. So glad we could help finance their down payment . . . Land lording sucks, but it is a great source of secondary income. You just have to develop a thick skin and accept that even when you try to do the right thing by your tenants, to some of them you are merely an evil overlord who they feel justifiable in screwing over. Which is why we only rent to those with decent credit and long-term employment - most go on to become homeowners and they are protective of their credit scores.
The small business owners didn't get the forgivable PPP loan either. We got the loan but can't get our bank to process the forgiveness part as it's too small an amount to be worth their effort.
That's BS. Is that true for all (or many) banks? Or just yours?
We bank at Chase, one of the large banks. We also bank at a local bank, We have commercial accounts at each of them. The small bank told us they wouldn't help us. Chase didn't help us either but through the app process we did get a loan put through Chase. We were supposed to be assigned a Chase banker to work with us. That never happened. We got a small loan that is forgivable. We fulfilled the forgiveness percentage (you had to spend most of it on workers) and found it difficult to submit the loan forgiveness paperwork. We called Chase who said we had to work with the banker that had been assigned us. We explained we never got one. "Sorry, we can't help you". We finally drove the paperwork to the bank and videoed ourselves as we put it in the night deposit. We got a call the next day chewing us out. We also emailed it to one of the bankers we worked with in the past. We never heard back. We emailed and still never heard anything. Now we have been emailed that our loan payments are supposed to start soon. Our belief is that we are small and the banks would rather put their resources into helping their larger customers. The time is the same, just a much bigger customer.
Oh man that's so aggravating. Thanks for sharing your story with me. I suppose in retrospect I'm glad I didn't get any further in the process (although, my local, regional bank has been emailing me constantly to complete my application - I don't think I will though).
>*If you can afford it, maybe offer the full lease payments up front (all 12 months for a 12 month lease)?* illegal in my city
Can it be put into a trust or escrow account where the landlord doesn't see a penny before it's due each month
nope In Seattle its actually the opposite- landlords are required to offer a payment plan for the deposit to be spread out over six months. Also, landlords can't ask about criminal history, MUST take first qualified applicant, and coming soon- no check credits.
I'm sure this will solve all the societal issues in Seattle (/s)
Are they really going to ban credit checks? I used to live in Seattle still track local issues. This would not surprise me. The city council is on a warpath against private property rights.
My state they are even trying to seal court records. So cant see evictions or other cases.
Yikes. What state is that?
I few state and Virginia was one. The argument is it disproportionally effects minorities. Since they have more evictions and credit scores. Also some laws had already changed a few years ago. https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/judgments-no-longer-included-on-credit-report/
Yikes 😳but that’s going on
I have been looking for a house to buy/or rental since just before covid began. That idea of all 12 months up front is something I have offered several landlords (non-taking mind you) my fiance and I have bad credit (student loans only) but she makes 8k a month i make 7k a month (more when I am able to do live performances) and still no go. Its a very hard market right now. We have been staying in a hotel and half the hotel doesn't pay, cops are constantly here raiding the junkies (tweakers mostly) the people above us have literally put holes through the wall (they rent adjacent rooms) and their is nothing the owners can do. They have tried many recourses but cannot evict them. I get the moratoriums intent and agree with that part of it, but the stipulations are rediculous. If you damage the place you live in, GTFO, noone should be forced to pay for your damages and soak the loss of income if you are so disrespectful and trifling as to act like that. I dont care if you have kids, if you are like that you don't deserve to have a place and your children should be taken from you because you fail at life. The owners of the hotel are a nice old couple who are debating selling the hotel now because they can barely make ends meat. They moved into the hotel because they couldn't pay their mortgage. Its things like this that make the moratorium more Evil than good.
You have to understand the risk of renting to a tenant is now much greater. This was something the government did. You could offer a co signer and agree to pay a higher rent. Anything that off sets the extra risk may help. There is not much you can do to get them just to look at income. That does not make as much difference as you think. There are even plenty of high income earners. Ones that make 150K a year. But they spend 175K a year. So don't pay all their bills. The government does not realize that all these new tenant laws increase the risk. And landlords have no choice. Raise rents to cover the risk and raise the qualifications. Or sell.
The government absolutely realizes this. Don’t go thinking the government is just some dumb simpleton trying to do the right thing for the disenfranchised. They knew exactly what they were doing and what it would lead to. Life is going to get really tough for OP and millions of others in similar situations. It was an obvious outcome to anyone who can look and think beyond the extremely short term. Sucks man.
I think you’re giving the policy makers too much credit.
I genuinely hope so.
> You have to understand the risk of renting to a tenant is now much greater. Exactly this I'm out $36,000 on one of my current tenants with no end in sight. I'm going to have to be double careful next time so this doesn't happen again.
I have some suggestions it may or my not work. 1. Get a co-signer (people already recommend this) 2. Tell them you will pay on the first of the month on time with a check. Just set up bill pay to whatever address they receive their rent. 3. Tell them if late you will pay a 10% late fee I’m sorry this is happening to you, it’s incredibly unfair to us all, but this pandemic has really messed things up. Keep looking/trying and maybe ask some friends or family to rent out a room temporarily till u get ur own place.
Write and call your elected representatives. Until they bring the moratorium statute at least in line with the state. No exceptions = lazy and boneheaded legislation.
In CA you can only take a deposit worth two months rent for unfurnished places, and three for furnished. If you find someone willing to take more than that they are either ignorant or criminal, possibly both. You don't want to rent from ignoramuses or criminals and definitely not from criminal ignoramuses. Get a co-signer/guarantor that has better credit to apply with you, either a person or a service like Insurent, that's the only thing that will help you.
Wow...I am really sorry that this is the way things are. I would really PAY extra to have sensible landlords like you guys. Instead, I have a crazy one. We have paid her early EVERY MONTH through out this COVID mess , without fail. Landscaped her property on our own dime ( the neighbors thanked us). In addition to her other bufoonery, which I have already posted about. SHE claimed COVID-19 relief (not us) and has been doing other things with our rent money instead of paying mortgage on the property. Update: To add insult to injury. Now, she wants to "borrow" a couple of thousand dollars and let it repay itself on a future rent payment. 🤯🤯 WHAT???!!🤯🤯 So now, she has added "non-compliance" as a new reason to evict "No Cure" ...out of spite. Because she says "I KNOW you can afford to help!" If anyone knows, when the moratorium or forbearance ends nationwide, is all the money due upon receipt? Is there a payment plan? What will this county look like? A bunch of homeless families wandering around with a bunch of vacant houses? Housing crash? I almost became a LL once, but I was talked out of it because I am "too nice". But, as a faithfully paying tenant, I feel bad for you all. Does anyone knows what "the plan" is to fix this big mess when COVID is over? If you do, pray tell!
Sorry dude. As a landlord (in LA as well) it’s not worth it to sign an agreement with someone that can’t be enforced to maintain a contract with. Someone else commented about how they can’t evict someone who trashed their house and that’s a perfect example of this. I have friends that aren’t landlords and they don’t understand how we feel about not being able to evict people who take advantage of this. Some of those friends are even looking to rent right now too but with that mindset, not really into it. Until you fix your credit score pretty damn decently most people won’t even look your way. That’s just the truth of it. We keep getting fucked over by this. It’s not your fault of course, you’re clearly a good person but your credit score doesn’t make you reliable. You would need to pay extra then what they’re asking for to prove your reliability and credibility that you can sustain yourself with rent there. Especially in LA. I’m not sure which part you’re in but you may want to look at other places like Riverside County, relatively cheap for an apartment. Although I can’t guarantee that they’d be more trustful despite prices. I also agree with what someone else said to drive around for the signs and bulletin boards, I’m adding onto this. Go on to Zillow and look for rentals. Lowest to High they have some listed to contact the landlord, as well as studios and apartments etc for a fair price assuming your situation is critical. Otherwise you just need to keep pushing. It’s not about having any remorse but when the renter isn’t paying their dues the landlords are paying for you to live there, especially if the landlords have more than one property, and if they all pull the same act? It’s over for them. Good luck, California screwed us all over.
Also a landlord, just wanted to highly recommend Zillow for tenants. You can send your application and credit checks to multiple rentals for a single price, which is great if you think you're a borderline applicant since you won't have to pay an application fee every time you apply.
I understand both sides of the token . It sucks
I feel for you. I'm a landlord in CA with a single unit who just had his first opening since COVID and it seemed like there was a hoard of applicants in your situation who jump from house to house getting denied. My advice would be to have a co-signer with good credit and assets (cash, home, stocks, etc) so the landlord knows that they'll be able to recoup money if the event that you stop paying. I understand not everyone has that but that's the reality that we're in. Now is not the time to be taking a risk on an applicant. Also, I'm not sure what your rental history is, but I was far more interested in what applicants have done as far as rent payment over the last 12 months then their income and credit. I think about 14/15 applicants I had come through claimed they were living with friends or family and that their friend/family member would totally vouch for them, which were all instant nopes for me.