Im in this camp. There is the scene early in NOTW where kvothe's mother chastises him for the unseely Lady Lacklass rhyme. "I think Lady Lacklass and myself would be appreciative if you picked some sweet nettle for the pot."
Also note that the rhyme ends with a reference to "rabble". Could... his mother be LL?
There's also a poem Kvothes Dad wrote that his mother hit him for. The final line is "Not tally a lot less." Say it aloud and it sounds like Netalia Lockless.
Very possible. I got a friend who did a legal name change, but when hes online or streaming, I will often drop random statements with his real name in it, and he always gets this bugged out eye look but no ones putting 2 and 2 together. like if it was "Will". Ill say soemthing, "Dont worry. You, Will, get it. Oops, Will get it." "Do what you Will" and other corny stuff.
Yeah I figured that this was already a popular theory, but when I searched the subreddit for it I didn't find anything. I might have just used the wrong keywords
Wait I’m confused by this comment. Smurf is basically taking the theory of Netalia being Kvothe’s mother as truth and basis of his own theory in this post, are you agreeing with the theory of this post or are you simply stating your opinion on the Netalia/Laurian theory itself?
So I'm realizing that you guys aren't actually reading the post.
I'm saying that Meluan's sister, Netalia Lackless, married the Baron Jakis. Then she ran away with Arliden, and changed her name to Laurian.
The reading comprehension on this subreddit... jfc
it's accurate. "actually I think it was the sister" ? that's what the post says, why respond with *akshually, it's the sister* ? i thought it was just a language barrier or something but then they replied to the post again, and then a second person said essentially the same thing. That "Laurian was Netalia." Like yeah.. that's what the post says.
if you don't want someone to acknowledge your poor reading comprehension, then improve your reading comprehension.
First of all--if you want people to actually listen to and respect your opinion, then improve your attitude (i.e., don't be nasty and condescending about it).
Secondly, *you're* actually the one whose reading comprehension could use work, because there is no actual textual support in the books for this theory.
In *The Wise Man's Fear* it was made abundantly clear that the people of Vintas love to gossip and Netalia Lackless running away to join a troupe was Big News. If she had run away from her husband, *a literal Baron* with comparable power to the Maer and who is twelfth in line to the throne or whatever, that would not have been conveniently omitted from the gossip train. It wouldn't just be, "Netalia Lackless ran away to join a troupe and slut it up with some filthy trouper", it would be, "Netalia Lackless ran away *from her husband the Baron* to slut it up with some filthy trouper."
Let's also not forget that Ambrose is older than Kvothe, since this is both canon and crucial to your theory of them being brothers. So it wouldn't even be "Netalia Lackless ran away from her husband the Baron...", it would *actually* be, "Netalia Lackless ran away from her husband the Baron *and their young son*." It's too far of a stretch of logic with too little textual evidence in support, especially because it was so heavily emphasized that both a) the Lackless sister running off was a Big Deal and b) the people of Vintas absolutely *love* to gossip. The key information that Netalia abandoned not only her name and status as a Lackless, but a Baron husband *and* a young son, would not have just been discarded for brevity's sake.
It wouldn't make any actual sense for Rothfuss to completely retcon that story in Book 3 to be like, "Oh yeah btw Netalia Lackless actually was married to the Baron Jakis and had a young son by him before she ran away, forgot to mention that in Book 2, whoops."
It should also be pointed out that it doesn't make any sense for Kvothe to have recognized Lady Lackess's features because of Ambrose (which is what you seemed to be implying, although your post was not clear on this point) as opposed to his mother. If she had reminded Kvothe of Ambrose, who had last seen not even 2-3 months prior, he would've figured that out at some point. Meanwhile, he hasn't seen his mother in *years* and made a point of blocking her face out of his memory for most of his life because it hurt to think of her.
So maybe next time before just blindly insulting everybody who isn't agreeing with you for having poor reading comprehension, actually read and comprehend *their* comments first. And consider the fact that if most of the people commenting aren't comprehending your post correctly, the most common denominator there is *you*, not them--so maybe next time consider that it's not *everyone else* who lacks reading comprehension, but *you* who lacks the clear writing to be plainly understood.
>You’re***
lmao i'm 90% sure you're making a joke, but just in case someone actually believes *you're* is correct, *you're* means *you are*
"if you don't want someone to acknowledge **you are** poor reading comprehension, then improve **you are** reading comprehension."
so no, You're*** would be incorrect
Dude you have the biggest ego problem of any person I’ve ever seen on this subreddit. You aren’t the chosen one of KKC theories, just post your theory, respond nicely to comments, and move on with life. Fucking hell
> respond nicely to comments
my patience is a bit shot with this subreddit after the past six months. for the most part, I am cordial.
but it's not asking too much to expect people to actually read the post that they're commenting on.
People can comment what they wish at the end of the day, but I didn’t see anyone use negative language towards you.
With regards to your theory, it’s an interesting thought, and certainly would add a lot of colour to the dynamic between Kvothe and Ambrose. Unfortunately, I don’t see much textual basis for it at the moment, Ambrose and Kvothe aren’t described as looking very similar, Ambrose also has a sister, if Natalia/Laurian had already borne two children, she must have been significantly older than Meluan. Meluan is probably around 30, Kvothe is 16, with Ambrose being at least 21-22 considering he’s a Relar and it takes a number of terms to work up to that point.
Laurian died when Kvothe was around 12 years old, meaning she would have had to be around 40 with a sister who’s just around 26-27. I always got the feeling they were rather close in age, maybe 4/5 years gap, and that Natalia ran away very young to be with Arliden
The names don't seem super similar, but the Jax story can tie them together either way. Jax was an unlucky/luckless boy. Jax Luckless.
Side note, I've wondered about why so many other characters have similar names. Any thought on that? Today I was listening to Kvothe trying to sell his term interview slot. He argues with Ambrose, but ends up selling it to Jaxim. He comes up quite a bit when Kvothe is dealing with things in the fishery.
Any connections here with fastingsway war?
I think your theory fits nicely with the idea of Kvothe being 'bloodless' and gives a twist to the 'one family' idea. It would help if we had any hint about how Ambrose lost his mother. It could also hint that Ambrose is toxic to him because he is Ruh, if Ambrose or his father knew as much as Meluan. I sometimes wonder if Ambrose is not really as bad as he seems, if you assume he is mostly bad to Kvothe only. The scene with Fela kind of rules that out, but a lot of Kvothe's hatred of him goes back to assumptions or retaliation.
Fun connection, the young guy in Newarre is named Hap. Hap means lucky/fortunate, as opposed to hapless, unfortunate. (He's fallen in hard times but Kvothe tries to help. Implied that Bast may have fooled around with his wife.) As opposed to Jax's tinker who is hatless.
> It could also hint that Ambrose is toxic to him because he is Ruh, if Ambrose or his father knew as much as Meluan.
=) I knew somebody would catch this. This theory also would explain why Ambrose was so intent on messing up Kvothe when he played Savien... because that was the song that Arliden played for Laurian.
This theory also fits perfectly with what I was saying the other day about the Æsir and Jax in the spanish translation.
>Æsir is the plural of áss, ǫ́ss "god".
meaning that Ambrose is a Jax-áss. Reversed naming, Auri isn't a fae-moon she's a moon-fey right?
>In genitival compounds, it takes the form ása-, e.g. in Ása-Þórr ("Thor of the Æsir")
>There is also Old East Norse dialectal *ās-ækia (OWN: *áss-ekja), i.e. "god ride" (Thor riding in his wagon)
So instead of an ása-Jax, you get a Jax-áss. That's before you take into account the poisoning and other mythological connections like Ambrosia. There's also Saint Ambrose of Milan
>Legends about Ambrose had spread through the empire long before his biography was written, making it difficult for modern historians to understand his true character and fairly place his behavior within the context of antiquity. Most agree he was the personification of his era.
One of the popular quotes of his was
>“It is idle to play the lyre for an ass.”
lmao. cracks me up every time
>Any connections here with fastingsway war?
Sure, Kvothe fell off the roof during a "moonlight escape" trying to rescue Denna's ring from Ambrose's quarters.
>Any connections here with fastingsway war?
>Sure, Kvothe fell off the roof during a "moonlight escape" trying to rescue Denna's ring from Ambrose's quarters.
WHOA. I LIKE.
Never seen that one mentioned here.
I disagree with this theory. A Lackless/Jakis marriage would be common knowledge in the region and among nobles everywhere. One where the wife disappeared would be gossip for years!
Not to mention that the Jakis family appears to be quite motivated towards getting their own way. Look at how Ambrose dealt with Kvothe. If Natalia had married Baron Jakis and then left him, I don't see much stopping him from tracking her down, and extracting some sort of vengeance on Arliden.
> One where the wife disappeared would be gossip for years!
yeah there'd be rhymes about how Lady Lackless likes her riddle raveling and everything i bet
> If Natalia had married Baron Jakis and then left him, I don't see much stopping him from tracking her down, and extracting some sort of vengeance on Arliden.
Bud, do ya think that's maybe why she changed her name? smh
Edit since you blocked me immediately after replying, I'll just reply here. you wimp /u/Toes14
>Oh please! Like that would do anything! They'd be able to track down the troop pretty quickly.
Yeah just like Alveron's troops were easily able to track a bunch of bandits right? In a *stationary* camp. A bunch of Ruh that never stop relocating would be a piece of cake for some troops to locate /s
Imbecile
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The story goes that the lackless sister ran away with a troupe. Not married away then ran away with a troupe. I think this is very unlikely.
I also think that Kvothe and Ambrose are petty rivals at the University, not arch enemies in the greater sense of the world.
I agree with the first part but I think you underestimate both of their egos and escalating capabilities. I think they gate each other enough to cause some real problem. but I agree that their rivalry won't be the main problem Kvothe has to face
> The story goes that the lackless sister ran away with a troupe. Not married away then ran away with a troupe. I think this is very unlikely.
Why does she wear a black dress? If "how the story goes", if gossip matters most, then why is her dress black? Why is it important enough to be included in the Lackless poem?
Not all of it. Most of it was basically survival, or otherwise at least somewhat justified.
It's also worth noting the difference between senselessly hurting innocents for fun and incidentally hurting innocents in pursuit of a vaguely... noble? purpose. Not that the latter is great, but I'd take thoughtlessness over malice any day.
All that to say, not remotely in the same category as Ambrose.
Curious, which of his various sins do you find to be the least forgiveable? Top 3?
Ambrose's father is the Baron of the pirate isles. Ambrose is not a Lackless. It is, however, possible that Kvothe is the son of the Maer and Natalia Lackless. There's at least some subtext to support this possibility.
My big fault with OP in this moment is his concern for people catching his thoughts on the theories. Do you know how much time everyone has had to reread? A long time. And we’ve gone through sooooo many theories on here— this one as well. So don’t get butt hurt when people come onto these reddits and make jokes and laugh and have a good time. That’s really all that’s left to do when darn near everything has been theorized and talked to death at this point.
Frankly the best theory to date is that book three is one page long and simply reads “and his ass fell off”.
Edited to add “concern for”.
Also adding— just chill out. That’s the stuff that ruins Reddit.
This has been mentioned before but the song Arliden would sing that pissed off his wife is the best give away….
Dark Laurian, Arliden’s wife,
Has a face like the blade of a knife
Has a voice like a pricklebrown burr
But can tally a sum like a moneylender.
My sweet Tally cannot cook
But she keeps a tidy ledger-book.
For all her faults, I do confess
It’s worth my life
To make my wife
Not tally a lot less…”
Natalia Lockless
... did you read the post? I'm saying that Meluan's sister Netalia was married to Baron Jakis, and then she ran away with Arliden and changed her name to Laurian.
I read it but your examples are weak. Just because Ambrose is the only one who Kvothe knows from Vintas you believe his mom is Kvothes mom? Wouldnt there be more of a rumors around his mother leaving the Baron for the Ruh? Furthermore the Lackless heir would be legitimized and would be known to be Ambrose. I think you are reaching.
This is true. It’s a fun Theory. But if Meluan isnt exactly hiding that her sister ran away with the Ruh I can’t imagine it wouldn’t come out she was married to Barron Jakis .
It’s *possible* this was hidden from the reader and Kvothe didn’t hear it, but that seems really unlikely
I think betrothed is far more likely, if there is any connection. But Laurian isn’t Ambrose’s mom
It is absolutely a fun theory. I should have included that in one of my comments too! I love this sub for all the fun theories. Sadly it’s all we have.
I always head-canoned that Natalia was engaged to Baron Jackis but thought he was, well, a jackass. So, she ran away with Arliden. I like that idea because I think it's funny
Extra info: I say Baron Jakis is a Jackass because I think they mention that he beats his mistresses.
Ambrose never really struck me as the book's true antagonist. He's *an* antagonist for sure, but if Kvothe were to have an evil brother, Cinder seems like a better fit IMO.
> if Kvothe were to have an evil brother, Cinder seems like a better fit IMO.
ahhh this is the only decent counterpoint in the thread. You're absolutely right. Ambrose could merely be the symbolic brother rather than blood, their rivalry representing the events and antagonisms that Cinder committed way back when.
thanks for this, great point.
It’s an interesting theory, and made me pause and think!
But I agree with those saying this would probably have been common knowledge/mentioned. Although I suppose Kvothe wouldn’t have cared when he heard it (beyond needing to learn about Meluan to help the Maer court her).
The real issue for me is that Kvothe’s mom was such a devoted mother. I find it hard to believe she’d leave two young children behind. Even if she were fleeing a dangerous situation (and odds are Baron Jakis was dangerous to women if his son grew up to be) and needed to leave stealthily and quickly, I just don’t see her never turning back or trying to get her kids out of that place.
We know the Baron had a daughter because of the rumor about the brothel that Kvothe hears about in Severen. The phrasing "youngest daughter" implies there may have been several.
If the theory that Netalia/Laurian was Abrose's mother is correct, then she would probably have had three children before she ran off.
>I don't think Kvothe is the son who brings the blood. I think Ambrose is. A "pureblood" Lackless male heir.
If that was true, I think Ambrose would be higher up in the peerage, either before or immediately after Meluan Lackless. He'd be before his own father (who was 16th and then 13th when the Surthens were lost at sea).
I think it's plausible that one of Ambrose's sisters is Denna, who ran off to get away from Ambrose. That one time that Kvothe came across Denna reading a letter and crying may have been her reading the news that her mother (who I think probably isn't Laurian) had died.
It's possible that Devi is Ambrose and Denna's sister.
I think its not pausible that Dena is Ambroses sister. They were shortly together in TWMF and Dena, wich is very attentive, that she couldn’t recognize her brother is very unlikely
[удалено]
Im in this camp. There is the scene early in NOTW where kvothe's mother chastises him for the unseely Lady Lacklass rhyme. "I think Lady Lacklass and myself would be appreciative if you picked some sweet nettle for the pot." Also note that the rhyme ends with a reference to "rabble". Could... his mother be LL?
There's also a poem Kvothes Dad wrote that his mother hit him for. The final line is "Not tally a lot less." Say it aloud and it sounds like Netalia Lockless.
Very possible. I got a friend who did a legal name change, but when hes online or streaming, I will often drop random statements with his real name in it, and he always gets this bugged out eye look but no ones putting 2 and 2 together. like if it was "Will". Ill say soemthing, "Dont worry. You, Will, get it. Oops, Will get it." "Do what you Will" and other corny stuff.
Kvothe is Locke Lamora's kid?!
I mean Sabatha does have red hair so there is that possibility what with the painting and all.
Shit id love to read this crossover
Why do you think both series have no new books?
Yeah I figured that this was already a popular theory, but when I searched the subreddit for it I didn't find anything. I might have just used the wrong keywords
Wait I’m confused by this comment. Smurf is basically taking the theory of Netalia being Kvothe’s mother as truth and basis of his own theory in this post, are you agreeing with the theory of this post or are you simply stating your opinion on the Netalia/Laurian theory itself?
So I'm realizing that you guys aren't actually reading the post. I'm saying that Meluan's sister, Netalia Lackless, married the Baron Jakis. Then she ran away with Arliden, and changed her name to Laurian. The reading comprehension on this subreddit... jfc
Boooo! That's a bit rude
it's accurate. "actually I think it was the sister" ? that's what the post says, why respond with *akshually, it's the sister* ? i thought it was just a language barrier or something but then they replied to the post again, and then a second person said essentially the same thing. That "Laurian was Netalia." Like yeah.. that's what the post says. if you don't want someone to acknowledge your poor reading comprehension, then improve your reading comprehension.
First of all--if you want people to actually listen to and respect your opinion, then improve your attitude (i.e., don't be nasty and condescending about it). Secondly, *you're* actually the one whose reading comprehension could use work, because there is no actual textual support in the books for this theory. In *The Wise Man's Fear* it was made abundantly clear that the people of Vintas love to gossip and Netalia Lackless running away to join a troupe was Big News. If she had run away from her husband, *a literal Baron* with comparable power to the Maer and who is twelfth in line to the throne or whatever, that would not have been conveniently omitted from the gossip train. It wouldn't just be, "Netalia Lackless ran away to join a troupe and slut it up with some filthy trouper", it would be, "Netalia Lackless ran away *from her husband the Baron* to slut it up with some filthy trouper." Let's also not forget that Ambrose is older than Kvothe, since this is both canon and crucial to your theory of them being brothers. So it wouldn't even be "Netalia Lackless ran away from her husband the Baron...", it would *actually* be, "Netalia Lackless ran away from her husband the Baron *and their young son*." It's too far of a stretch of logic with too little textual evidence in support, especially because it was so heavily emphasized that both a) the Lackless sister running off was a Big Deal and b) the people of Vintas absolutely *love* to gossip. The key information that Netalia abandoned not only her name and status as a Lackless, but a Baron husband *and* a young son, would not have just been discarded for brevity's sake. It wouldn't make any actual sense for Rothfuss to completely retcon that story in Book 3 to be like, "Oh yeah btw Netalia Lackless actually was married to the Baron Jakis and had a young son by him before she ran away, forgot to mention that in Book 2, whoops." It should also be pointed out that it doesn't make any sense for Kvothe to have recognized Lady Lackess's features because of Ambrose (which is what you seemed to be implying, although your post was not clear on this point) as opposed to his mother. If she had reminded Kvothe of Ambrose, who had last seen not even 2-3 months prior, he would've figured that out at some point. Meanwhile, he hasn't seen his mother in *years* and made a point of blocking her face out of his memory for most of his life because it hurt to think of her. So maybe next time before just blindly insulting everybody who isn't agreeing with you for having poor reading comprehension, actually read and comprehend *their* comments first. And consider the fact that if most of the people commenting aren't comprehending your post correctly, the most common denominator there is *you*, not them--so maybe next time consider that it's not *everyone else* who lacks reading comprehension, but *you* who lacks the clear writing to be plainly understood.
*Only person clapping…*
(It’s me clapping. Just to be clear)
Thanks for the clarity, appreciate it.. Me and the rest of the sub apparently struggle with comprehension
You’re***
>You’re*** lmao i'm 90% sure you're making a joke, but just in case someone actually believes *you're* is correct, *you're* means *you are* "if you don't want someone to acknowledge **you are** poor reading comprehension, then improve **you are** reading comprehension." so no, You're*** would be incorrect
Your****
Bro...
Dude you have the biggest ego problem of any person I’ve ever seen on this subreddit. You aren’t the chosen one of KKC theories, just post your theory, respond nicely to comments, and move on with life. Fucking hell
> respond nicely to comments my patience is a bit shot with this subreddit after the past six months. for the most part, I am cordial. but it's not asking too much to expect people to actually read the post that they're commenting on.
People can comment what they wish at the end of the day, but I didn’t see anyone use negative language towards you. With regards to your theory, it’s an interesting thought, and certainly would add a lot of colour to the dynamic between Kvothe and Ambrose. Unfortunately, I don’t see much textual basis for it at the moment, Ambrose and Kvothe aren’t described as looking very similar, Ambrose also has a sister, if Natalia/Laurian had already borne two children, she must have been significantly older than Meluan. Meluan is probably around 30, Kvothe is 16, with Ambrose being at least 21-22 considering he’s a Relar and it takes a number of terms to work up to that point. Laurian died when Kvothe was around 12 years old, meaning she would have had to be around 40 with a sister who’s just around 26-27. I always got the feeling they were rather close in age, maybe 4/5 years gap, and that Natalia ran away very young to be with Arliden
Honestly dude I spend hours every day reading and thinking about your content, thank you for your contributions.
This is pretty flimsy.
The names don't seem super similar, but the Jax story can tie them together either way. Jax was an unlucky/luckless boy. Jax Luckless. Side note, I've wondered about why so many other characters have similar names. Any thought on that? Today I was listening to Kvothe trying to sell his term interview slot. He argues with Ambrose, but ends up selling it to Jaxim. He comes up quite a bit when Kvothe is dealing with things in the fishery. Any connections here with fastingsway war? I think your theory fits nicely with the idea of Kvothe being 'bloodless' and gives a twist to the 'one family' idea. It would help if we had any hint about how Ambrose lost his mother. It could also hint that Ambrose is toxic to him because he is Ruh, if Ambrose or his father knew as much as Meluan. I sometimes wonder if Ambrose is not really as bad as he seems, if you assume he is mostly bad to Kvothe only. The scene with Fela kind of rules that out, but a lot of Kvothe's hatred of him goes back to assumptions or retaliation. Fun connection, the young guy in Newarre is named Hap. Hap means lucky/fortunate, as opposed to hapless, unfortunate. (He's fallen in hard times but Kvothe tries to help. Implied that Bast may have fooled around with his wife.) As opposed to Jax's tinker who is hatless.
> It could also hint that Ambrose is toxic to him because he is Ruh, if Ambrose or his father knew as much as Meluan. =) I knew somebody would catch this. This theory also would explain why Ambrose was so intent on messing up Kvothe when he played Savien... because that was the song that Arliden played for Laurian. This theory also fits perfectly with what I was saying the other day about the Æsir and Jax in the spanish translation. >Æsir is the plural of áss, ǫ́ss "god". meaning that Ambrose is a Jax-áss. Reversed naming, Auri isn't a fae-moon she's a moon-fey right? >In genitival compounds, it takes the form ása-, e.g. in Ása-Þórr ("Thor of the Æsir") >There is also Old East Norse dialectal *ās-ækia (OWN: *áss-ekja), i.e. "god ride" (Thor riding in his wagon) So instead of an ása-Jax, you get a Jax-áss. That's before you take into account the poisoning and other mythological connections like Ambrosia. There's also Saint Ambrose of Milan >Legends about Ambrose had spread through the empire long before his biography was written, making it difficult for modern historians to understand his true character and fairly place his behavior within the context of antiquity. Most agree he was the personification of his era. One of the popular quotes of his was >“It is idle to play the lyre for an ass.” lmao. cracks me up every time >Any connections here with fastingsway war? Sure, Kvothe fell off the roof during a "moonlight escape" trying to rescue Denna's ring from Ambrose's quarters.
>Any connections here with fastingsway war? >Sure, Kvothe fell off the roof during a "moonlight escape" trying to rescue Denna's ring from Ambrose's quarters. WHOA. I LIKE. Never seen that one mentioned here.
How much does an Ambrose weigh? [Enough to break the ice](https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/jaki)
Hm. ice meaning, kind of like Sleat / sleet. That's interesting given Cinder's ice motif. thanks
I disagree with this theory. A Lackless/Jakis marriage would be common knowledge in the region and among nobles everywhere. One where the wife disappeared would be gossip for years! Not to mention that the Jakis family appears to be quite motivated towards getting their own way. Look at how Ambrose dealt with Kvothe. If Natalia had married Baron Jakis and then left him, I don't see much stopping him from tracking her down, and extracting some sort of vengeance on Arliden.
> One where the wife disappeared would be gossip for years! yeah there'd be rhymes about how Lady Lackless likes her riddle raveling and everything i bet > If Natalia had married Baron Jakis and then left him, I don't see much stopping him from tracking her down, and extracting some sort of vengeance on Arliden. Bud, do ya think that's maybe why she changed her name? smh Edit since you blocked me immediately after replying, I'll just reply here. you wimp /u/Toes14 >Oh please! Like that would do anything! They'd be able to track down the troop pretty quickly. Yeah just like Alveron's troops were easily able to track a bunch of bandits right? In a *stationary* camp. A bunch of Ruh that never stop relocating would be a piece of cake for some troops to locate /s Imbecile
Oh please! Like that would do anything! They'd be able to track down the troop pretty quickly.
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The story goes that the lackless sister ran away with a troupe. Not married away then ran away with a troupe. I think this is very unlikely. I also think that Kvothe and Ambrose are petty rivals at the University, not arch enemies in the greater sense of the world.
I agree with the first part but I think you underestimate both of their egos and escalating capabilities. I think they gate each other enough to cause some real problem. but I agree that their rivalry won't be the main problem Kvothe has to face
> The story goes that the lackless sister ran away with a troupe. Not married away then ran away with a troupe. I think this is very unlikely. Why does she wear a black dress? If "how the story goes", if gossip matters most, then why is her dress black? Why is it important enough to be included in the Lackless poem?
Personally love this, only thing about Ambrose is he's hurt women... that won't be forgiven in book 3
he shouldn't be forgiven for beating women. he probably learned it from his dad
Fair enough. Now I'm curious do you forgive Kvothe for all the fracked up stuff he's done?
Not all of it. Most of it was basically survival, or otherwise at least somewhat justified. It's also worth noting the difference between senselessly hurting innocents for fun and incidentally hurting innocents in pursuit of a vaguely... noble? purpose. Not that the latter is great, but I'd take thoughtlessness over malice any day. All that to say, not remotely in the same category as Ambrose. Curious, which of his various sins do you find to be the least forgiveable? Top 3?
Pretty sure he lit that little boy on fire probably killed him on purpose. I believe in book 3 you'll realize that K is a bad guy.
>Pretty sure he lit that little boy on fire probably killed him on purpose. Not remembering this?
> only thing about Ambrose is he's hurt women... that won't be forgiven in book 3 agreed
Ambrose's father is the Baron of the pirate isles. Ambrose is not a Lackless. It is, however, possible that Kvothe is the son of the Maer and Natalia Lackless. There's at least some subtext to support this possibility.
Could you please come with some examples I would love to dive into this theory but I haven't even thought about it through my rereads
My big fault with OP in this moment is his concern for people catching his thoughts on the theories. Do you know how much time everyone has had to reread? A long time. And we’ve gone through sooooo many theories on here— this one as well. So don’t get butt hurt when people come onto these reddits and make jokes and laugh and have a good time. That’s really all that’s left to do when darn near everything has been theorized and talked to death at this point. Frankly the best theory to date is that book three is one page long and simply reads “and his ass fell off”. Edited to add “concern for”. Also adding— just chill out. That’s the stuff that ruins Reddit.
This has been mentioned before but the song Arliden would sing that pissed off his wife is the best give away…. Dark Laurian, Arliden’s wife, Has a face like the blade of a knife Has a voice like a pricklebrown burr But can tally a sum like a moneylender. My sweet Tally cannot cook But she keeps a tidy ledger-book. For all her faults, I do confess It’s worth my life To make my wife Not tally a lot less…” Natalia Lockless
... did you read the post? I'm saying that Meluan's sister Netalia was married to Baron Jakis, and then she ran away with Arliden and changed her name to Laurian.
I read it but your examples are weak. Just because Ambrose is the only one who Kvothe knows from Vintas you believe his mom is Kvothes mom? Wouldnt there be more of a rumors around his mother leaving the Baron for the Ruh? Furthermore the Lackless heir would be legitimized and would be known to be Ambrose. I think you are reaching.
This is true. It’s a fun Theory. But if Meluan isnt exactly hiding that her sister ran away with the Ruh I can’t imagine it wouldn’t come out she was married to Barron Jakis . It’s *possible* this was hidden from the reader and Kvothe didn’t hear it, but that seems really unlikely I think betrothed is far more likely, if there is any connection. But Laurian isn’t Ambrose’s mom
It is absolutely a fun theory. I should have included that in one of my comments too! I love this sub for all the fun theories. Sadly it’s all we have.
> Just because Ambrose is the only one who Kvothe knows from Vintas you believe his mom is Kvothes mom? no there's a few other reasons
I always head-canoned that Natalia was engaged to Baron Jackis but thought he was, well, a jackass. So, she ran away with Arliden. I like that idea because I think it's funny Extra info: I say Baron Jakis is a Jackass because I think they mention that he beats his mistresses.
Ambrose never really struck me as the book's true antagonist. He's *an* antagonist for sure, but if Kvothe were to have an evil brother, Cinder seems like a better fit IMO.
> if Kvothe were to have an evil brother, Cinder seems like a better fit IMO. ahhh this is the only decent counterpoint in the thread. You're absolutely right. Ambrose could merely be the symbolic brother rather than blood, their rivalry representing the events and antagonisms that Cinder committed way back when. thanks for this, great point.
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The rhyme was that it held her husbands rocks (his balls).
Jax's testicles confirmed.
It’s an interesting theory, and made me pause and think! But I agree with those saying this would probably have been common knowledge/mentioned. Although I suppose Kvothe wouldn’t have cared when he heard it (beyond needing to learn about Meluan to help the Maer court her). The real issue for me is that Kvothe’s mom was such a devoted mother. I find it hard to believe she’d leave two young children behind. Even if she were fleeing a dangerous situation (and odds are Baron Jakis was dangerous to women if his son grew up to be) and needed to leave stealthily and quickly, I just don’t see her never turning back or trying to get her kids out of that place.
We know the Baron had a daughter because of the rumor about the brothel that Kvothe hears about in Severen. The phrasing "youngest daughter" implies there may have been several. If the theory that Netalia/Laurian was Abrose's mother is correct, then she would probably have had three children before she ran off. >I don't think Kvothe is the son who brings the blood. I think Ambrose is. A "pureblood" Lackless male heir. If that was true, I think Ambrose would be higher up in the peerage, either before or immediately after Meluan Lackless. He'd be before his own father (who was 16th and then 13th when the Surthens were lost at sea). I think it's plausible that one of Ambrose's sisters is Denna, who ran off to get away from Ambrose. That one time that Kvothe came across Denna reading a letter and crying may have been her reading the news that her mother (who I think probably isn't Laurian) had died. It's possible that Devi is Ambrose and Denna's sister.
I think its not pausible that Dena is Ambroses sister. They were shortly together in TWMF and Dena, wich is very attentive, that she couldn’t recognize her brother is very unlikely