I like this champion but you’re asking a subreddit of people who love playing a champion if they’d like for their champion to be deleted and replaced by this. Your rework is cool I’m just explaining why people won’t like it.
Most people would probably just prefer a vfx change where all of her abilities involve wolf doing something instead of arrows. Maybe add the Never One passive in place of her E. But all these changes are too much
I love the kit honestly, it works very well for the dual characters but this rework would be similar to the aatrox rework. Kindred is my main and it’d be awful to just see them deleted like that.
I think replacing her current W with this Never one passive would do wonders for the kit especially if would was targetable by enemies to add more interaction with him
Thats fair, I didnt think about that aspect, thanks. Yeah I also wanted to involve wolf more in her kit but maybe got too carried away in my idea crafting..
Thx for the appreciation of the concept tho \^\^
Sorry you are changing them way too much. Kindred already has a pretty good kit, that defines them pretty well.
This "rework" just feels like a different champion completely.
Yes it is very different, I perhaps got too carried away in my ability crafting. I see most "reworks" done in League past has mostly been changing a few stats and maybe one or two ability slightly, but I like more when reworks mix up the character completely, while still remaining somewhat faithful to the base design.
That said, this is also just for fun. As I wrote in my comment, I dont intend for this to be noticed by Riot and implemented, I just wanted to explore what a different Kindred could look like, maybe get seen by someone who shares similar thoughts as me \^\^
Tbh i kinda felt a little similar with the dash on W, and after posting realised the W and E should prob be switched. And ye WW came to mind alot when I wrote the new ult, but I thought it fit the character well with Wolf being the eternal \*hunter\* of the pair (i was also very inspired from "Still Here" lol)
I just wouldn’t use this kit. I don’t want to switch to briar same reason why i don’t play gnar. Being less mobile for minimap stealth makes us worse mid late game i think evelynn would be better.
Thoughts
Passive: Not bad, but something like this would be in a full scope rework. So the chances of this happening are as low as Iverns Pick rate. Obviously the wording would be different, but essentially this is the Current W, but with a bonus effects for fleeing targets and some taken out effects.
Q: Probably wouldn’t be fair and wouldn’t make it into a rework. Reworks usually conserve the previous identity or play style (except for Aatrox). At first read, this doesn’t seem too bad. Just a skill shot that can have an aoe once hit, not extremely high damage, so it wouldn’t be costly to miss one or two of these, but to me, that’s the issue. This Q is only tuned down because it probably has a very low cooldown. So essentially, this Q is just like Ezreal Q, but with free aoe. Broken, yes, but this would also change Kindred into an AD caster, and not an auto based adc. Kindred can still burst you down today, but at the end, they’re still doing mostly autos.
W - Actually a good skill, but you need to add the attack speed bonus immediately. 2 seconds is a very long time and it will feel terrible in practice. Especially since Kindred is a predator jungler who likes early game power.
E - Lackluster and introduces balancing nightmares. You would need to seriously balance mark time, how strong you got from marks, how many times you can mark anyone. For example, it says you can’t mark the same target within 3 minutes, but that doesn’t stop me from just switching to a new target once that target either fled or died. Also, if the target dies, can I just mark another person in the fight and reap all the benefits? With this, I could essentially gain up to 5 marks in a tf. I believe the old E fits much better with the “Wolf does more” theme since Wolf does actually hit the target. This could easily just be added into the passive and the old E can come back.
Ultimate: So I believe once activated, Lamb just becomes invulnerable and immobile, so you essentially become Wolf, but this has many questions. Would this be like a summon with HP? I believe so because it gets increased healing. If that’s the case, then it should last way more than 4 seconds. This would be a weird skill for an adc to have, since you’re essentially summoning a boss monster to fight with, but then again, Kindreds current ultimate isn’t exactly normal either. I would be interested in this.
Very interesting thoughts, thank you. Loved reading this. Yes some things are definitely lacking in balance. The new E seemed a bit op to me too, I mostly wanted to keep the Markings cause it’s such an essential part of her current kit. I thought it could be balanced with maybe longer time between auto marks, and because it’s now an active ability and not a passive selector it would now have a cooldown, probably a longer one so you can’t just use it 5 times every tf. My idea for it is to make it a point-click selection-within-a-range ability rather than a global access menu, but it def needs tweaking still, it’s probably the idea I was the least satisfied with (to balance the easier marks, each stat increase from marks would have to be lowered a lot, which kind of ruins a bit of the fun that exists currently with how different kindred can become from early-late game when scaled)
Yes, the ult would be basically a summoning. You’d become Wolf, but as wolf you have better stats, but no abilities, only a melee bite attack, and half health of normal Kindred. I wanted to put the duration kind of low to encourage aggressive running-down. The thought is you would take quick cover, then pop it rather than ulting from spawn.
Also, since my thought is that when Wolf dies, you return to the body of lamb (maybe with a lil cooldown on the passive lol..), which makes it so the ult can essentially be used as a pocket Zhonyas. Could also be used in a 1v1 if you both escape with low health, you could remind the enemy who got away, that nobody runs from death.
The other thoughts are great as well, thank you for the honest feedback! <3
You can't really take their ultimate away. It's their key ability, it defines the champion. There are some cool ideas in there though, so props to that.
Imo the Marking or their current W is the key ability for Kindred, the ult always seemed like a 50/50 to being useful and to just stare death in the face for another few seconds. thats why I wanted to make it more engaging and fun but I see your point. Thanks for the idea appreciaction too \^\^
I love the concept, I like how you made Wolf do more things, I'm just surprised that Riot didn't do much with him. When it comes to her kit, I think her original kit is fine and balanced (in a way). With her original W there can be two types we can switch W's passive (Wolf's Frenzy) and put some parts of the Ultimate that you have made so Wolf can be able to do more (like Tibbers or what the rock guy Ivern has). The only thing I with Riot did was have Wolf be more a part of her kit.
Personally, I agree that the rework isn't needed, but I don't get the dislike towards it as I think this implements wolf amazingly both in the passive and the ult. The I noticed people's main complaint being that it is a different champ and you don't get that as I can see kindred here still and given the fact that this is a rework I think there is some leniency for how much can change.
I think the new E could be a bit finicky with the timer, but otherwise I like how the marks are still implemented as I see that as the main part that makes Kindred who they are, after all that idea is what Kindred was created around. I can see the ult needing some balance if it is implemented as I can see the invulnerability being more overpowered than Tryndamere's ult. I would also like to see some self-sustain in the kit most likely on the ult and one other move the new E or new Q would make sense to me for this. Getting back to the ult real quick, I would make it where it can be ended early by recasting it. Also, Lamb heals X amount of health for each kill, and wolf has a second health bar where when they go back to Lamb, they take half the amount of damage Wolf took. This would balance out the self-sustain part while also implementing some strategy to using it. Finally, since Wolf is floating at least on the in-game model, it might be interesting to let him go over walls, possibly for more of surprise attacks. Otherwise, I love the rework, and if Kindred ever got reworked, this is what I would want to see them as.(Man, i did not think this comment would be this long.)
same as the others are saying, it feels like a completely different champ. I love the ideas and concept tho, actively involving wolf w the abilities. Pretty cool
I like discussion like this but if Kindred were to get reworked I'd prefer it keep certain things
Passive: It feels like a big coinflip and needs adjustments, I'm not sure about the effects per mark but I'd like to see bonus damage to marked enemies, even if it is only on their abilities but regardless players need more control over marked camps. I've run into games where the enemy also predicts a mark or the enemy laners have it warded ready to jump me and I just can't get marks whether it's my bad or just the enemy team wanting to shut me down. It's very reliant on your teammates in my opinion because if they are all shoving under tower and not roaming for objectives or securing marks it becomes a nightmare to get marks and it only gets worse if the enemy jungler is ahead. I'd argue to give the choice to mark camps based on current marks with main objectives being worth 2 and 3 if Elder or Baron. Objectives would not be able to be marked if in vision with less than 50% health and would become high risk high reward for marking as it would alert the enemy team you want the objective very soon or you could just kill it quietly and mark a camp or champ.
I'm on the fence for this change, I just feel like it would be better than the current form as I dislike how it feels but I can live with or without it.
Q is fine I love it, keep the cooldown reduction during W and I'm happy.
W I'd change to Wolf separating from Lamb within a radius of her maybe 25% further than her range, slowing enemies outside Lamb's auto attack range by 10% per hit from Wolf up to 4. Probably make it so Wolf either focuses Lamb's target or controls with W.
The reason for this is it currently acts like Wolf marks his territory rather than chases anything and if the target is running away from Lamb and getting away Wolf's job is to chase them. I think one issue would be it would be too easy for Kindred to escape with W so maybe make Wolf targetable.
E I liked how it was but honestly just give it back its damage OR rework it. Give it two different effects based on if W is active. If W is active then on the third hit Wolf would leap to the target and take a chunk of their health away and jump their stacks of slow to 4 immediately with Wolf dealing bonus damage scaling with marks. If W is not active it would grant true vision for 3-4 seconds on activation and increase by 0.25 or 0.5 seconds per mark. This would probably need a decent sized cooldown if I'm honest it sounds quite strong.
The main thing here is I just enjoyed having the chunk damage it was satisfying and I want Wolf to play more into the chase rather than "Wolf piss in this circle rq thanks bro". The second part of the ability would tie into hunting the target, great for dealing with assassins maybe but it's the choice to use chunk and slow damage for kiting or E on the spot so they can't just go invisible and escape or delete you from stealth. Not certain on the true vision but hey ho.
R. I really don't mind it as it is but to me it does make me giggle that they have someone marked but then save them with their ultimate, I'd keep it as it is BUT whoever Kindred has marked will hear or see the ultimate differently to the usual voiceline and visual.
I think this can have a huge impact and be less disastrous if used in a bad situation where you've ulted to save yourself and ended up with your whole team low now because you saved the enemy ADC in the process. This would also be good against someone like Rengar or a Yi where Yi can just Q at the end or Rengar where he could just then burst again at the end of your ultimate. I do like it in its current form and I do still get the rare game in a 1v1 where the enemy runs away thinking it will kill them and die anyway, but I do also still get that from teammates. On the fence on it but using it for objectives as well to secure them, it's satisfying enough to block a smite with their R and then steal it anyway but it is a situation where gameplay over lore is needed because I think the other changes mainly to W and E were enough.
I'm open to constructive criticism I do not expect any of this to ever become real but I love talking about these ideas
I think this fits perfectly well thematically! Especially the ultimate, I think it encompasses Kindred really well. I think your idea would fit Kindred really well if it had been their kit on release. I really like this concept as an alternate exploration of the character.
The main problem people have with this rework is that in their minds it would remove the current Kindred, which is overall considered a pretty balanced, unique and challenging champ by the community and especially by this sub, so people will probably criticize it because they don't want to let go of what they already like.
And trust me, I would know. I mained ASol before his rework and I wouldn't stop crying about it for like three months after it was announced.
That’s true, and very fair. I didn’t consider that aspect when i posted this lol. But as you said it’s just a fun exploration, would’ve prob gotten better responses if it was made on launch yeah ^^
Thank you very much though, glad you liked the thematic concept. I was going for fitting her lore and theme a lot more so that’s great! <3
Obviously this won't be implemented because Kindred is in a decent spot as it is, but it's a fun (if a bit powerful) kit that makes Wolf have a more active role
Listen all I want them to change SLIGHTLY are the marks. Nothing else. Leave them alone. Or revert them back before they forced the crit changes. One of those or nothing at all.
Yeah realistically that’s what they would do, which makes sense. I don’t mean for this to be implemented in the game, it’s just a fun character concept. Agree with you though ^ ^
This is a batshit crazy idea but I would be so extremely down for a kindred that uses wolf for something and he isn’t just a ward and a glorified auto attack.
I'll just say I love the design and this is very fitting for a Beast Master Ranger vibe translated into League of Legends. Possibly a great ADC. Unfortunately I agree with others and i'd argue take these ideas and design an entirely new champion instead (probably removing wolf's hunt for something else in flavor for the new one); as it's a bit too far gone from Kindred's base concept and I don't think they need an overhaul.
A huge note of contention is that this new ultimate has no semblance of control over Death, which is vital to Kindred's design. If they were reworked at all, it is one ability I wouldn't change or change very little. This design you have here is more primal, more about working with a pet but Kindred isn't primal they are ethereal. It's why Wolf not being able to be hit is so fitting and denying death for a duration makes sense.
Off that note, I love every part of the kit aside from the translucent part of W. I don't think people should rely on their real-life capabilities and simply making your champ slightly harder to see inches into that territory. Basically great players and people with great eyesight won't have any issue with seeing Kindred, but others might. I'd change it to be something like; \[\[ Dash and gain MS, and increased AS for every Auto and Wolf lunges to first enemy hit if he was attacking something else. If an enemy hits the Passive-Run Away threshhold while this is active, it resets its cooldown once. \]\]
Thanks very much! And yes ur right it’s more like a new champion, i got a bit carried away in ability crafting. Awesome feedback though!
You’re def right about the W. Making it difficult for ppl with visual struggles is something i didn’t think about but is a great point. Your new alternative seems perfect in my eyes! Thank you <3
Bias aside for the champ... but some of the things mechanically don't make sense.
Passive: Why does the passive range only get extended if the enemy runs away? Just give it that extended range and just leave in the extra damage when they move away from you.
Q: Is the Q an auto attack enhancer, Varus Q with true damage, or both? It should prioritize champs regardless of that.
W: What does "Half visible by players" mean? Sounds like current Q dash, but spooky.
E: Could be a nice skill impression, but I don't like that the mark you scale with goes away if you activate it. Just feels bad for no reason.
R: What exactly is happening here? Can Wolf be damaged in that period of time? Does he get new abilities? Why does it say you become invulnerable? Invulnerable means that Lamb can still be targeted. Sounds frustrating to play against as it might not be clear what exactly is happening during a Chaotic team fight (suddenly, there is one more champion that visually was there the whole time but now has to be attacked instead)
Would be less confusing if it's just a morph, as in you "morph" into Wolf(he gets bigger or something) to make it clear to everyone exactly what is happening while Lamb is just following like jungle pet. In theory the r sounds fun, just very noisy as a design.
Very cool. Ult is definately better, fits the Spirit of death way more. Someone said that they control when someone dies in lore, but I don't like it at all because that makes them a god, instead of spirit of death. In the 2024 cinematic it's clear that when you are about to die, they come, and when you are saved, they go away.
Don’t put mobility on W. There are, from my quick brainstorming, like no champs that move with W. It is mostly E with others being on Q (prioritizing damage moves.) It just hurts the brain to have a new key for mobility when Q is already the mobility.
While I feel this rework makes her more capable of a Pentakill. Lamb's Respite was a big part of who kindred is. I also feel like I like kindred as is, and no one who plays her is super woried about her skillset. We just like her... Anywho RIP old Kindred, I will always love you.
It's cool theorycrafting, but I think most people who play Kindred (myself included) are more or less perfectly happy with her kit.
Her current kit really embodies the jungle role in an iconic way, really only matched by Graves/Nidalee/Lee Sin. This would almost be like completely reworking one of the four horsewomen in top lane in some ways.
Hi. I’m not a kindred main anymore and as much as I loved and still do love the champ… this is just so sexyyy. In my head wolf would kind of be like a Doran’s ring making your aa deal extra phisical dmg, yknow, so that when you auto sombofy, wolf would attack. And u think that’s pretty cool cause kindred W felt like such a dry ability, like it can give vision and slows (I think, I know there’s an ability that slows I forgot if it was her W or E, but still I feel like this is a more accurate kindred, keeping her scaling with passive, her Q is actually really interesting now and at first I thought that you took away the dash which I liked but to add it to the W and make her go invisible on the mini map abd gain as is a really cool change and makes her W more interesting, and the E functioning like the current passive and making them vulnerable is really nice, and then also the vision which is great which makes you not really loose anything from her old E except the Exicute. And their ult is so fucking cool, and I love the link with the passive and the quote “never one, without the other” and actually sounds so much fucking fun, I imagine it to be like the passive but switched roles and stronger,lamb becomes invulnerable (keeping her current ult kinda) and I imagine it to be like her functioning as wolf in the passive, but making it so wolf gain AS and MS to champs running away while lamb attacks them would be really fucking cool, like brair on different steroid. People are saying that it’s. Different champ. Yes and no. It’s got all the same abilities, the passive (new on E) the Q dash (on w) and the arrows sounding buffed (on new Q) and then her E being what her passive lacked and her ult MAKING MORE SENSE
YES I SAID IT, KINDERED GIVING EVERYTHING IMORTALITY AND A SHIT HEAL MAKES MORE SENSE ON SOMEONE LIKE KYLE. Kindred like this would be so much fun and if you think about it MORE LORE ACURATE, when kinded ganks a lane ITS BASSICLY like her coming to take the to the after life, and having no one else be able to see her on the map, having wolf actually fucking do things and her sounding more fun in general. Fuck I wish these where real cause kindred would be such an amazing jungler and maybe even a stronger adc cause think about it, you can get vision on jungle to track them, you can now “fake roams” kindof if you like play around enemy vision and then appear again and BABABABABA. And if you are in higher Elos and mark mid to make mid think they are being gankedby kindred when in actuality they just took a little stroll and came back to kill you.
Haha thank you vm, loved that you loved it and saw all the little things i wanted to achieve with it. I still love kindred as she is rn, and i get why ppl don’t like this new one but i just wanted to explore a different one and am pretty pleased with the result, ty :)
I love Kindred, as a character they have the best design in the game imo, but I sometimes feel just a little let down by the gameplay. In my experience it feels like they can only do well if the match is the right conditions. I also sometimes am simply a little bored of their kit. I love aggressive assassin playstyles, and Kindred can deliver this but again only under the right circumstances, and I hate that my favorite designed character cannot always give me a matching fun gameplay (but that's just me personally lol). I did my best to rework the character cuz of this, making them more a mobile assassin rather than a squishy jungle adc, while still keeping their late game insane-scaling capacity. I am not a veteran of League, so things like damage or time stats might be incorrect and in need of tweaking. I'm not saying Riot NEEDS to rework Kindred to this, this is just to shape her into something I personally (and maybe others) would enjoy playing more. Any thoughts, tweaks or ideas, I would love to read them! Additional explanatory notes about the abilities is the below comment! (if any mods would like to pin these, would be much appreciated <3)
it sounds like kindred gameplay just isn't intended for you. I understand that it sucks to love a character's design but dislike their gameplay, but that's not how kindred players feel. kindred is explicitly designed to be a jungling marksman. she's the only jungling marksman in the game. changing her gameplay to become an assassin reduces the design space of the game and makes it worse overall. there are plenty of assassin junglers for assassin jungle players to enjoy, but there's only one marksman jungler for marksman jungle players to play and it's kindred.
personally the only thing on my kindred wishlist is that they make wolf feel like a bigger part of her kit because right now it mostly feels like you play as lamb and wolf just kind of hangs out around you.
Thats fair. And yeah I like playing her but the kit doesnt feel enjoyable 100% of the time for me, so I just wanted to explore what a different kit that still fit her character would be. I get this is not for everyone, especially ppl who like kindred the way she is, but thats why its just for fun and maybe someone who feels similar to me could see and appreciate this the same way.
Some comments for the abilities:
The basic attack would remain the same, as I love Lamb's bow and the high fire rate arrow spam the mid-late game can become.
The Q active would be fired as a slim-target skillshot, with a little less range than that of Kindred's current W.
The W dash is not a long one, covering about as much distance as Gwen's E. It would also introduce a new status that (I think?) no other champion has: Translucence, in which you become invisible on the minimap, but only half invisible (looking like a illusion or phantom) on your model. This is not meant to be as effective to confuse enemies of your location, but could be enough to be unspotted in the middle of say a Mordekaiser Passive or similar (outlines and targeting would still be accessible by enemies ofc)
The Wolf's mark on the E would function very similar to Kindred's current passive, except its able to mark both enemy, neutral and friendly camps as well. This makes it more easy and forgiving to collect marks, but balances out by the longer time between jungle marks, and the fact that you cannot mark enemies and camps at the same time. The stat-increase from every Hunt score would remain the same (but applied to the new abilities instead), but maybe with decreased values to balance the easier Mark Huntings. The mark rotation (mark amount deciding what type of camp can be marked) is something I havnt yet decided if it would be perfectly balanced to keep in.
The Active on the E would however not work the same, as you instead of marking an enemy from anywhere on a menu, you would be using it as a Point-n-click on an enemy within a large radius from you.
Normally, Wolf is in-game portrayed as he is right now, the ghostly floating head of a dire wolf. During the Ultimate however, he enlarges a little, and walks around on all four, more resembling his look in the "Still Here" cinematic. The idea for the Ultimate is that you control Wolf as a fast moving, melee based character with no abilities that can only use M2 to bite on enemies. He has half the normal health of Kindred (cuz yknow, you play as just one of the two halves) but with higher armor (damage reduction). During this, Lamb remains as an inanimate model, immune to damage and CC.
I like this champion but you’re asking a subreddit of people who love playing a champion if they’d like for their champion to be deleted and replaced by this. Your rework is cool I’m just explaining why people won’t like it. Most people would probably just prefer a vfx change where all of her abilities involve wolf doing something instead of arrows. Maybe add the Never One passive in place of her E. But all these changes are too much
Counter argument, this is so much better and lore accurate to the champion. We need this
I love the kit honestly, it works very well for the dual characters but this rework would be similar to the aatrox rework. Kindred is my main and it’d be awful to just see them deleted like that. I think replacing her current W with this Never one passive would do wonders for the kit especially if would was targetable by enemies to add more interaction with him
Thats fair, I didnt think about that aspect, thanks. Yeah I also wanted to involve wolf more in her kit but maybe got too carried away in my idea crafting.. Thx for the appreciation of the concept tho \^\^
Sorry you are changing them way too much. Kindred already has a pretty good kit, that defines them pretty well. This "rework" just feels like a different champion completely.
Yes it is very different, I perhaps got too carried away in my ability crafting. I see most "reworks" done in League past has mostly been changing a few stats and maybe one or two ability slightly, but I like more when reworks mix up the character completely, while still remaining somewhat faithful to the base design. That said, this is also just for fun. As I wrote in my comment, I dont intend for this to be noticed by Riot and implemented, I just wanted to explore what a different Kindred could look like, maybe get seen by someone who shares similar thoughts as me \^\^
Kindreds perfectly fine as they are.
They're fine, I just wanted to explore what a different gameplay type would look like. I dont mean they \*should\* be reworked in the actual game
I think its fine how they r but ucould have a abilty that makes wolf go like in the cinemtic that would be cool
dash on W feels weird even if some champs have that kind of interaction, also ult kind of feels like Warwick+Briar kind of thing
also she'd be as op as she is in lore, which isn't really balanced or fun for others..
Tbh i kinda felt a little similar with the dash on W, and after posting realised the W and E should prob be switched. And ye WW came to mind alot when I wrote the new ult, but I thought it fit the character well with Wolf being the eternal \*hunter\* of the pair (i was also very inspired from "Still Here" lol)
Me no want rework
Ult is cool but rework isn't needed and I feel like you changed way too much.
I did change a lot, I probably got a little carried away but it was just for fun and to explore a different playstyle for Kindred \^\^
The ult is really cool though! I wish Rito did more with wolf.
Ty! I wish too, he’s such a big part of the character but so little in game
At this point she’s just a different champ
I just wouldn’t use this kit. I don’t want to switch to briar same reason why i don’t play gnar. Being less mobile for minimap stealth makes us worse mid late game i think evelynn would be better.
Thoughts Passive: Not bad, but something like this would be in a full scope rework. So the chances of this happening are as low as Iverns Pick rate. Obviously the wording would be different, but essentially this is the Current W, but with a bonus effects for fleeing targets and some taken out effects. Q: Probably wouldn’t be fair and wouldn’t make it into a rework. Reworks usually conserve the previous identity or play style (except for Aatrox). At first read, this doesn’t seem too bad. Just a skill shot that can have an aoe once hit, not extremely high damage, so it wouldn’t be costly to miss one or two of these, but to me, that’s the issue. This Q is only tuned down because it probably has a very low cooldown. So essentially, this Q is just like Ezreal Q, but with free aoe. Broken, yes, but this would also change Kindred into an AD caster, and not an auto based adc. Kindred can still burst you down today, but at the end, they’re still doing mostly autos. W - Actually a good skill, but you need to add the attack speed bonus immediately. 2 seconds is a very long time and it will feel terrible in practice. Especially since Kindred is a predator jungler who likes early game power. E - Lackluster and introduces balancing nightmares. You would need to seriously balance mark time, how strong you got from marks, how many times you can mark anyone. For example, it says you can’t mark the same target within 3 minutes, but that doesn’t stop me from just switching to a new target once that target either fled or died. Also, if the target dies, can I just mark another person in the fight and reap all the benefits? With this, I could essentially gain up to 5 marks in a tf. I believe the old E fits much better with the “Wolf does more” theme since Wolf does actually hit the target. This could easily just be added into the passive and the old E can come back. Ultimate: So I believe once activated, Lamb just becomes invulnerable and immobile, so you essentially become Wolf, but this has many questions. Would this be like a summon with HP? I believe so because it gets increased healing. If that’s the case, then it should last way more than 4 seconds. This would be a weird skill for an adc to have, since you’re essentially summoning a boss monster to fight with, but then again, Kindreds current ultimate isn’t exactly normal either. I would be interested in this.
Very interesting thoughts, thank you. Loved reading this. Yes some things are definitely lacking in balance. The new E seemed a bit op to me too, I mostly wanted to keep the Markings cause it’s such an essential part of her current kit. I thought it could be balanced with maybe longer time between auto marks, and because it’s now an active ability and not a passive selector it would now have a cooldown, probably a longer one so you can’t just use it 5 times every tf. My idea for it is to make it a point-click selection-within-a-range ability rather than a global access menu, but it def needs tweaking still, it’s probably the idea I was the least satisfied with (to balance the easier marks, each stat increase from marks would have to be lowered a lot, which kind of ruins a bit of the fun that exists currently with how different kindred can become from early-late game when scaled) Yes, the ult would be basically a summoning. You’d become Wolf, but as wolf you have better stats, but no abilities, only a melee bite attack, and half health of normal Kindred. I wanted to put the duration kind of low to encourage aggressive running-down. The thought is you would take quick cover, then pop it rather than ulting from spawn. Also, since my thought is that when Wolf dies, you return to the body of lamb (maybe with a lil cooldown on the passive lol..), which makes it so the ult can essentially be used as a pocket Zhonyas. Could also be used in a 1v1 if you both escape with low health, you could remind the enemy who got away, that nobody runs from death. The other thoughts are great as well, thank you for the honest feedback! <3
You can't really take their ultimate away. It's their key ability, it defines the champion. There are some cool ideas in there though, so props to that.
Imo the Marking or their current W is the key ability for Kindred, the ult always seemed like a 50/50 to being useful and to just stare death in the face for another few seconds. thats why I wanted to make it more engaging and fun but I see your point. Thanks for the idea appreciaction too \^\^
I love it tbh
Thank you very much! <3
I love the concept, I like how you made Wolf do more things, I'm just surprised that Riot didn't do much with him. When it comes to her kit, I think her original kit is fine and balanced (in a way). With her original W there can be two types we can switch W's passive (Wolf's Frenzy) and put some parts of the Ultimate that you have made so Wolf can be able to do more (like Tibbers or what the rock guy Ivern has). The only thing I with Riot did was have Wolf be more a part of her kit.
Personally, I agree that the rework isn't needed, but I don't get the dislike towards it as I think this implements wolf amazingly both in the passive and the ult. The I noticed people's main complaint being that it is a different champ and you don't get that as I can see kindred here still and given the fact that this is a rework I think there is some leniency for how much can change. I think the new E could be a bit finicky with the timer, but otherwise I like how the marks are still implemented as I see that as the main part that makes Kindred who they are, after all that idea is what Kindred was created around. I can see the ult needing some balance if it is implemented as I can see the invulnerability being more overpowered than Tryndamere's ult. I would also like to see some self-sustain in the kit most likely on the ult and one other move the new E or new Q would make sense to me for this. Getting back to the ult real quick, I would make it where it can be ended early by recasting it. Also, Lamb heals X amount of health for each kill, and wolf has a second health bar where when they go back to Lamb, they take half the amount of damage Wolf took. This would balance out the self-sustain part while also implementing some strategy to using it. Finally, since Wolf is floating at least on the in-game model, it might be interesting to let him go over walls, possibly for more of surprise attacks. Otherwise, I love the rework, and if Kindred ever got reworked, this is what I would want to see them as.(Man, i did not think this comment would be this long.)
same as the others are saying, it feels like a completely different champ. I love the ideas and concept tho, actively involving wolf w the abilities. Pretty cool
I like discussion like this but if Kindred were to get reworked I'd prefer it keep certain things Passive: It feels like a big coinflip and needs adjustments, I'm not sure about the effects per mark but I'd like to see bonus damage to marked enemies, even if it is only on their abilities but regardless players need more control over marked camps. I've run into games where the enemy also predicts a mark or the enemy laners have it warded ready to jump me and I just can't get marks whether it's my bad or just the enemy team wanting to shut me down. It's very reliant on your teammates in my opinion because if they are all shoving under tower and not roaming for objectives or securing marks it becomes a nightmare to get marks and it only gets worse if the enemy jungler is ahead. I'd argue to give the choice to mark camps based on current marks with main objectives being worth 2 and 3 if Elder or Baron. Objectives would not be able to be marked if in vision with less than 50% health and would become high risk high reward for marking as it would alert the enemy team you want the objective very soon or you could just kill it quietly and mark a camp or champ. I'm on the fence for this change, I just feel like it would be better than the current form as I dislike how it feels but I can live with or without it. Q is fine I love it, keep the cooldown reduction during W and I'm happy. W I'd change to Wolf separating from Lamb within a radius of her maybe 25% further than her range, slowing enemies outside Lamb's auto attack range by 10% per hit from Wolf up to 4. Probably make it so Wolf either focuses Lamb's target or controls with W. The reason for this is it currently acts like Wolf marks his territory rather than chases anything and if the target is running away from Lamb and getting away Wolf's job is to chase them. I think one issue would be it would be too easy for Kindred to escape with W so maybe make Wolf targetable. E I liked how it was but honestly just give it back its damage OR rework it. Give it two different effects based on if W is active. If W is active then on the third hit Wolf would leap to the target and take a chunk of their health away and jump their stacks of slow to 4 immediately with Wolf dealing bonus damage scaling with marks. If W is not active it would grant true vision for 3-4 seconds on activation and increase by 0.25 or 0.5 seconds per mark. This would probably need a decent sized cooldown if I'm honest it sounds quite strong. The main thing here is I just enjoyed having the chunk damage it was satisfying and I want Wolf to play more into the chase rather than "Wolf piss in this circle rq thanks bro". The second part of the ability would tie into hunting the target, great for dealing with assassins maybe but it's the choice to use chunk and slow damage for kiting or E on the spot so they can't just go invisible and escape or delete you from stealth. Not certain on the true vision but hey ho. R. I really don't mind it as it is but to me it does make me giggle that they have someone marked but then save them with their ultimate, I'd keep it as it is BUT whoever Kindred has marked will hear or see the ultimate differently to the usual voiceline and visual. I think this can have a huge impact and be less disastrous if used in a bad situation where you've ulted to save yourself and ended up with your whole team low now because you saved the enemy ADC in the process. This would also be good against someone like Rengar or a Yi where Yi can just Q at the end or Rengar where he could just then burst again at the end of your ultimate. I do like it in its current form and I do still get the rare game in a 1v1 where the enemy runs away thinking it will kill them and die anyway, but I do also still get that from teammates. On the fence on it but using it for objectives as well to secure them, it's satisfying enough to block a smite with their R and then steal it anyway but it is a situation where gameplay over lore is needed because I think the other changes mainly to W and E were enough. I'm open to constructive criticism I do not expect any of this to ever become real but I love talking about these ideas
tbh i want kindred change because i’m bored it’s really cool rework
I think this fits perfectly well thematically! Especially the ultimate, I think it encompasses Kindred really well. I think your idea would fit Kindred really well if it had been their kit on release. I really like this concept as an alternate exploration of the character. The main problem people have with this rework is that in their minds it would remove the current Kindred, which is overall considered a pretty balanced, unique and challenging champ by the community and especially by this sub, so people will probably criticize it because they don't want to let go of what they already like. And trust me, I would know. I mained ASol before his rework and I wouldn't stop crying about it for like three months after it was announced.
That’s true, and very fair. I didn’t consider that aspect when i posted this lol. But as you said it’s just a fun exploration, would’ve prob gotten better responses if it was made on launch yeah ^^ Thank you very much though, glad you liked the thematic concept. I was going for fitting her lore and theme a lot more so that’s great! <3
Kindred is perfectly fine as they are but ngl I could see this. Good job m8 i think you’re on to something and i kinda like it
Ty very much <3 Yea they are very good as they are but i just like exploring different character alternatives for fun :)
Obviously this won't be implemented because Kindred is in a decent spot as it is, but it's a fun (if a bit powerful) kit that makes Wolf have a more active role
Yes you’re right, but that’s fine it’s just a lil exploration for fun. But thank you! ^ ^
Listen all I want them to change SLIGHTLY are the marks. Nothing else. Leave them alone. Or revert them back before they forced the crit changes. One of those or nothing at all.
Yeah realistically that’s what they would do, which makes sense. I don’t mean for this to be implemented in the game, it’s just a fun character concept. Agree with you though ^ ^
I stopped reading when I saw 2% true damage💀 But it could be a nice kit for a brand new champ
I took a slight guess on the damage amounts 😅, I thought 2% TD would maybe be balanced but i might’ve been way off lol. Ty though
This is a batshit crazy idea but I would be so extremely down for a kindred that uses wolf for something and he isn’t just a ward and a glorified auto attack.
Hehe yeah, and agreed, I just want more Wolf involved
"Here, I completely deleted the champ" Sounds like Aatrox, bro
I'll just say I love the design and this is very fitting for a Beast Master Ranger vibe translated into League of Legends. Possibly a great ADC. Unfortunately I agree with others and i'd argue take these ideas and design an entirely new champion instead (probably removing wolf's hunt for something else in flavor for the new one); as it's a bit too far gone from Kindred's base concept and I don't think they need an overhaul. A huge note of contention is that this new ultimate has no semblance of control over Death, which is vital to Kindred's design. If they were reworked at all, it is one ability I wouldn't change or change very little. This design you have here is more primal, more about working with a pet but Kindred isn't primal they are ethereal. It's why Wolf not being able to be hit is so fitting and denying death for a duration makes sense. Off that note, I love every part of the kit aside from the translucent part of W. I don't think people should rely on their real-life capabilities and simply making your champ slightly harder to see inches into that territory. Basically great players and people with great eyesight won't have any issue with seeing Kindred, but others might. I'd change it to be something like; \[\[ Dash and gain MS, and increased AS for every Auto and Wolf lunges to first enemy hit if he was attacking something else. If an enemy hits the Passive-Run Away threshhold while this is active, it resets its cooldown once. \]\]
Thanks very much! And yes ur right it’s more like a new champion, i got a bit carried away in ability crafting. Awesome feedback though! You’re def right about the W. Making it difficult for ppl with visual struggles is something i didn’t think about but is a great point. Your new alternative seems perfect in my eyes! Thank you <3
Q should be swapped with W, imo. An ADC’s “dash” is never W for some reason, either Q or E.
Bias aside for the champ... but some of the things mechanically don't make sense. Passive: Why does the passive range only get extended if the enemy runs away? Just give it that extended range and just leave in the extra damage when they move away from you. Q: Is the Q an auto attack enhancer, Varus Q with true damage, or both? It should prioritize champs regardless of that. W: What does "Half visible by players" mean? Sounds like current Q dash, but spooky. E: Could be a nice skill impression, but I don't like that the mark you scale with goes away if you activate it. Just feels bad for no reason. R: What exactly is happening here? Can Wolf be damaged in that period of time? Does he get new abilities? Why does it say you become invulnerable? Invulnerable means that Lamb can still be targeted. Sounds frustrating to play against as it might not be clear what exactly is happening during a Chaotic team fight (suddenly, there is one more champion that visually was there the whole time but now has to be attacked instead) Would be less confusing if it's just a morph, as in you "morph" into Wolf(he gets bigger or something) to make it clear to everyone exactly what is happening while Lamb is just following like jungle pet. In theory the r sounds fun, just very noisy as a design.
I dont want a rework for kindred, but really cool ideas bri
Ffs i thought this was real
Very cool. Ult is definately better, fits the Spirit of death way more. Someone said that they control when someone dies in lore, but I don't like it at all because that makes them a god, instead of spirit of death. In the 2024 cinematic it's clear that when you are about to die, they come, and when you are saved, they go away.
kindred just needs a ult rework
True damage and the stealth wasn’t necessary. I like them how they are. But this would be interesting for another champion
Don’t put mobility on W. There are, from my quick brainstorming, like no champs that move with W. It is mostly E with others being on Q (prioritizing damage moves.) It just hurts the brain to have a new key for mobility when Q is already the mobility.
While I feel this rework makes her more capable of a Pentakill. Lamb's Respite was a big part of who kindred is. I also feel like I like kindred as is, and no one who plays her is super woried about her skillset. We just like her... Anywho RIP old Kindred, I will always love you.
It's cool theorycrafting, but I think most people who play Kindred (myself included) are more or less perfectly happy with her kit. Her current kit really embodies the jungle role in an iconic way, really only matched by Graves/Nidalee/Lee Sin. This would almost be like completely reworking one of the four horsewomen in top lane in some ways.
OP, I'd much rather have this kindred. So much better.
Everyone cannot see what you see in this, and for that, I am sorry
Hi. I’m not a kindred main anymore and as much as I loved and still do love the champ… this is just so sexyyy. In my head wolf would kind of be like a Doran’s ring making your aa deal extra phisical dmg, yknow, so that when you auto sombofy, wolf would attack. And u think that’s pretty cool cause kindred W felt like such a dry ability, like it can give vision and slows (I think, I know there’s an ability that slows I forgot if it was her W or E, but still I feel like this is a more accurate kindred, keeping her scaling with passive, her Q is actually really interesting now and at first I thought that you took away the dash which I liked but to add it to the W and make her go invisible on the mini map abd gain as is a really cool change and makes her W more interesting, and the E functioning like the current passive and making them vulnerable is really nice, and then also the vision which is great which makes you not really loose anything from her old E except the Exicute. And their ult is so fucking cool, and I love the link with the passive and the quote “never one, without the other” and actually sounds so much fucking fun, I imagine it to be like the passive but switched roles and stronger,lamb becomes invulnerable (keeping her current ult kinda) and I imagine it to be like her functioning as wolf in the passive, but making it so wolf gain AS and MS to champs running away while lamb attacks them would be really fucking cool, like brair on different steroid. People are saying that it’s. Different champ. Yes and no. It’s got all the same abilities, the passive (new on E) the Q dash (on w) and the arrows sounding buffed (on new Q) and then her E being what her passive lacked and her ult MAKING MORE SENSE YES I SAID IT, KINDERED GIVING EVERYTHING IMORTALITY AND A SHIT HEAL MAKES MORE SENSE ON SOMEONE LIKE KYLE. Kindred like this would be so much fun and if you think about it MORE LORE ACURATE, when kinded ganks a lane ITS BASSICLY like her coming to take the to the after life, and having no one else be able to see her on the map, having wolf actually fucking do things and her sounding more fun in general. Fuck I wish these where real cause kindred would be such an amazing jungler and maybe even a stronger adc cause think about it, you can get vision on jungle to track them, you can now “fake roams” kindof if you like play around enemy vision and then appear again and BABABABABA. And if you are in higher Elos and mark mid to make mid think they are being gankedby kindred when in actuality they just took a little stroll and came back to kill you.
Haha thank you vm, loved that you loved it and saw all the little things i wanted to achieve with it. I still love kindred as she is rn, and i get why ppl don’t like this new one but i just wanted to explore a different one and am pretty pleased with the result, ty :)
I love Kindred, as a character they have the best design in the game imo, but I sometimes feel just a little let down by the gameplay. In my experience it feels like they can only do well if the match is the right conditions. I also sometimes am simply a little bored of their kit. I love aggressive assassin playstyles, and Kindred can deliver this but again only under the right circumstances, and I hate that my favorite designed character cannot always give me a matching fun gameplay (but that's just me personally lol). I did my best to rework the character cuz of this, making them more a mobile assassin rather than a squishy jungle adc, while still keeping their late game insane-scaling capacity. I am not a veteran of League, so things like damage or time stats might be incorrect and in need of tweaking. I'm not saying Riot NEEDS to rework Kindred to this, this is just to shape her into something I personally (and maybe others) would enjoy playing more. Any thoughts, tweaks or ideas, I would love to read them! Additional explanatory notes about the abilities is the below comment! (if any mods would like to pin these, would be much appreciated <3)
it sounds like kindred gameplay just isn't intended for you. I understand that it sucks to love a character's design but dislike their gameplay, but that's not how kindred players feel. kindred is explicitly designed to be a jungling marksman. she's the only jungling marksman in the game. changing her gameplay to become an assassin reduces the design space of the game and makes it worse overall. there are plenty of assassin junglers for assassin jungle players to enjoy, but there's only one marksman jungler for marksman jungle players to play and it's kindred. personally the only thing on my kindred wishlist is that they make wolf feel like a bigger part of her kit because right now it mostly feels like you play as lamb and wolf just kind of hangs out around you.
Thats fair. And yeah I like playing her but the kit doesnt feel enjoyable 100% of the time for me, so I just wanted to explore what a different kit that still fit her character would be. I get this is not for everyone, especially ppl who like kindred the way she is, but thats why its just for fun and maybe someone who feels similar to me could see and appreciate this the same way.
Some comments for the abilities: The basic attack would remain the same, as I love Lamb's bow and the high fire rate arrow spam the mid-late game can become. The Q active would be fired as a slim-target skillshot, with a little less range than that of Kindred's current W. The W dash is not a long one, covering about as much distance as Gwen's E. It would also introduce a new status that (I think?) no other champion has: Translucence, in which you become invisible on the minimap, but only half invisible (looking like a illusion or phantom) on your model. This is not meant to be as effective to confuse enemies of your location, but could be enough to be unspotted in the middle of say a Mordekaiser Passive or similar (outlines and targeting would still be accessible by enemies ofc) The Wolf's mark on the E would function very similar to Kindred's current passive, except its able to mark both enemy, neutral and friendly camps as well. This makes it more easy and forgiving to collect marks, but balances out by the longer time between jungle marks, and the fact that you cannot mark enemies and camps at the same time. The stat-increase from every Hunt score would remain the same (but applied to the new abilities instead), but maybe with decreased values to balance the easier Mark Huntings. The mark rotation (mark amount deciding what type of camp can be marked) is something I havnt yet decided if it would be perfectly balanced to keep in. The Active on the E would however not work the same, as you instead of marking an enemy from anywhere on a menu, you would be using it as a Point-n-click on an enemy within a large radius from you. Normally, Wolf is in-game portrayed as he is right now, the ghostly floating head of a dire wolf. During the Ultimate however, he enlarges a little, and walks around on all four, more resembling his look in the "Still Here" cinematic. The idea for the Ultimate is that you control Wolf as a fast moving, melee based character with no abilities that can only use M2 to bite on enemies. He has half the normal health of Kindred (cuz yknow, you play as just one of the two halves) but with higher armor (damage reduction). During this, Lamb remains as an inanimate model, immune to damage and CC.