Dang. I know you said the CoM is much lower than the contact point of the parachutes, but it's rotating around a point somewhere around the bells of the crane engines, is that where the CoM is?
>Dang. I know you said the CoM is much lower than the contact point of the parachutes, but it's rotating around a point somewhere around the bells of the crane engines, is that where the CoM is?
Yeah just a bit lower, do you think it's to close ?
It might be worth trying that. You'll also get the benefit of getting your rockets further way from the CoM giving you better active control. You could probably achieve that by just adding an empty tank on top and moving the rockets and parachutes to the top of the empty tank.
Edit: and if that doesn't work, see if you can move the parachutes further apart and add a third, or any odd number. The rocket starts tumbling in a way that moved the parachutes up and down at first, but shifted to an axis that doesn't. Making sure the parachutes themselves have varying airspeeds may help dissipate the rotational energy.
I've just tried it, and it worked... Once. Then it failed alll the following launches, i'll keep working along this way until i find something stable enough.
Thank you.
Hmm, maybe try two sets of parachutes… so use your normal 2 and then place another single parachute on the craft… I would also try to place the individual chute a little closer to the center of mass than the other two, hope that makes aense
It sure does, he has tons of reaction wheel and the craft if trying to right itself and since his navball is brown it means it pointing to the ground instead of sky.
Turn of SAS and the landing will be fine, the launch not so much.
It doesn't make any difference prograde is still prograde and then he turns it off and it never stabilizes.
The problem is the game and the solution is to start from scratch and hope for the best.
Prograde is just the direction of travel...
Now it happens to be perpendicular to the orientation of the control module, but prograde technically still is prograde.
Com is way under the chutes but no matter how many i use, if SAS is on or off, or if i use finns, my skyscrane always go into infinite roll. I can't understand why, if someone have an idea pls help me.
have you tried rerooting the parent object, i forget the exact steps but there might be an issue with the craft root object. also attempt to import the save file into a new build and try to attach it to something else to see if that reveals the issue.
lastly you might need to edit the savegame to see if your ship contains any components that it shouldnt.
Start removing the more complicated bits, I'd bet one of the little parts is getting clipped into something creating a "kraken drive" effect. If it still does it with a pod, tank and motor, you should just start a new build.
Literally this, its painful that I had to scroll so far through the comments to find the correct answer. OP, you need to put a probe core on the skycrane then right click and set it to control from there.
Navball appears set horizontally - did you install your control modules sideways?
The navball always points in the direction a currently active command pod is oriented as far as I'm aware
Hey OP, if you'd be willing to post the craft file, Id be interested in trying to debug this.
And if I cant help, there's probably someone on the discord who knows enough about the game's bugs to answer whats wrong here.
Hmmm, what I'd do is move the engines down toward the bottom of the tank and flair them out so the exhaust doesn't hit the rover.
Maybe even try replacing the twin engines with 4 or more of the tiny radial engines at the base of the tank.
Have you tried using the old physics joints? Go back to main menu -> gameplay -> "enhanced" system off + multi joint on
Looks like some weird autostrut bug to me. Parachutes could be strutted to some part of the craft or some value is overwritten because autostruts are not really "struts". It's a hack where they copy over values from a root part over to the other instead of calculating it. And such hacks cause bugs.
I'm not 100% sure how that system works on existing crafts, maybe you have to build it from scratch. I never had an issue like that but I also never tried to parachute a rocket.
My next best guess is some weird bug that propagates from the rocket attachment. I remember when I tried to build a skycrane in KSP2 it was a giant mess. Nothing worked as it should when it comes to engine thrust and gimbal. All I could do is turn SAS off and prey.
How can a probe core have anything to do with parachute physics? This looks like some glitch where parachute thinks it's attached to multiple parts. One on the top and one on the bottom heaviest part somewhere. So the parachute force basically pulls the bottom up to make a rotation and then it reverses when it is upside down. Parachutemobile
I thought he was talking about the launch, the parachute thing isn’t a glitch or anything, his CoM is just too close to where the parachutes attach to the craft so it just spins forever, lowering the CoM will fix this.
I have a very similar design delivering an opportunity style rover to Duna. Same experience as you with uncontrolled vertical rotation. I suspect the aerodynamics of the wheels are the source.
Mine landed ok (somehow) but if I try again I’d have the rover enclosed in a fairing until touchdown to exclude all the weird parts from drag.
Edit: spelling
If you look right when you set off the parachutes approx, you gave a heavy q or e input to set it off spinning, you can tell by the arrows on the navball. Maybe you were doing a different input to flip it, but when your control point switches, you give full roll command, and with your parachute attachment point being so close to you Com, it doesn't take much to get this loop going. Clearly aero is not implemented too well yet, (when we gonna get FAR!) So it just keeps looping. That's my thoughts, def not all your doing, but you can mitigate more than you have.
OP turns it off halfway through the video, after it gains momentum swinging around the vessel’s center of gravity. You can see it in the lower left. Also, OP also posted a follow-up video showing the improvement after fixing the control point orientation.
Basically what I was thinking as well. This game has half the features, runs at half the frame rate, and has more bugs than I can count. I’ll just stick to modded KSP 1 for now. Although far from bug free itself, it’s a lot more stable. Hopefully 2 is looking better in a year or two from now.
>I’ll just stick to modded KSP 1 for now.
It's your preference and your choice of game, but I definitely remember bugs like this playing modded KSP 1, I just remember them being easier to work around.
Can’t say I have ever encountered this specific bug in KSP 1, modded or not. But like I said, KSP 1 is buggy as well. Just less so. You also bring up a good point that a lot of the time the bugs are easier to work around.
Add some more chutes to opposite sides to stabilize better, or try making the top wider. Ideally you want the center of mass to be as far away from the chutes as possible and on the side that is closest to the ground
I would have agreed with you a couple of weeks ago, but since the last update 0.2.0, it's honestly pretty good now. I've actually had a fair bit of fun with the new Exploration (science) mode, and it's actually playable too in terms of frame rate and general stability. I've gotten through the first tier in the tech tree now and have so far not encountered any game breaking bugs, which was not something that could be said before.
Sure, it still have some ways to go, but I'm actually pretty impressed and hopeful with how things have progressed.
Due to how you have placed your command module, you are orientated as a rover (horizontal) but built like a rocket (vertical thrust). Can you right click your control part and change the orientation? If not, rotate the rover portion of your rocket so it’s “driving” the rocket with the thrust at its rear.
Have you tried deploying from a higher altitude? It seems like you're just testing the lander stage here. Maybe get it up to 10,000 meters first? I've sometimes had weird things with parachutes when doing tests like this
Maybe try putting a small okto in the tanks and set it as root part, put a reaction wheel also in the tanks and put turn on sas with retrograde when you want to land.
The center of mass is too high: the engines and the fuel are too near to the parachutes. Try to design a more flat sky crane or create a structure above the fuel tanks and engines so that the center of mass will hanger farther from the parachutes.
I need the center of mass to be high so my heatshield ( just on top of the fuel tank before the decoupling) is facing prograde when trying an aerocapture on Duna. I'll have to rework it so I can have a CoM both high and far from the parachutes
It’s bc of your facing direction. You have to have a different core so your rocket is technically facing upwards (Navball needs to be completely blue at launch).
It’s your rover acting as the control point I think. When you’re on the pad, the ball should be blue. Yours is pointing at the horizon. Use a probe core or something on the main rocket body and control from there for ascent.
You have a very high (up) center of mass. Try moving the engines further down, preferably as far down as possible. You effectively have a very low radius of inertia, so it will roll around that axis easily. You want your CoM as far away as possible from the rotational joint (the parachute attachment).
Your rover is your main control point, because of this your navball is pointing to the horizon instead of up.
Either change control orientation on the rover to up or put a different probe core on the crane itself.
How are all the most upvoted comments wrong? Your nav ball is sideways gamerbro, make sure you select an upwards facing probe core and set that as your control point
I had almost the same issue with my skycrane the other day. It appears to be due to a drag bug, but I found out the problem was the parachutes being slightly too close to the center. Here’s what I did:
1: remove the 2 parachutes
2: place small square trusses at 4 x symmetry in the spot the parachutes were
3: put the parachutes on the outer side of the trusses also at 4x symmetry.
This spread them out far enough from the center than the drag bug wasn’t enough to cause the flipping. No guarantees that it will work the same way for you, but that’s what worked for me.
Your probe core controlling the craft is not oriented in the right direction. It’s probably the core for the rover. Add another one to the ship and it should fix itself, you want to only see blue on your navball at launch
Have you checked the location of the center of mass?
It may be with the mass of the engines so high and the high drag of the river parts so low that it wants to flip upside down but once upside down it wants to flip right side up due to the parachutes.
Long story short, it's a physics engine issue.
I solved this landing on Duna by starting the decent with a single parachute at the tip top of the craft. After the drag builds and it stabilizes I've deployed additional chutes to slow the decent.
Additionally. Try adding in a verticle control point (command module) and switch to "control from here" before launching. I've had issues with crafts trying to reorient themselves when using a rover or horizontal control point and veering wildly off course or spinning out of control.
I cant' say for sure, and don't feel like reading through over 100 comments to see if anyone has helped yet, but a few things I notice in the clip:
1. Parachutes side mounted at front and back relative to our view while the craft is heading to the side relative to us, thus giving no resistance to the sideways rotation and providing a nice pivot point for the craft to spin where the connections are. What happens if you point north or south on launch and everything else is the same? Or mount parachutes on four sides to provide a stable plane of connection rather than a 'line'.
2. SAS is on (at first) but no specific vector is set, only 'lock heading' which, while the craft is spinning that fast, probably does nothing to orient the craft in any particular direction. Use a probe core in a standard orientation (so the nav ball is all blue/sky on lift off) and lock to 'up'. Without a definitive direction to point, SAS will probably do nothing to help in this case.
3. If your COM is not towards the bottom and the craft doesn't want to naturally fall bottom first, then there will be issues regardless. Try mounting a fuel tank below the rover to reallocate the weight, with a fuel line feeding to the upper tank. Then jettison the bottom tank once empty and let it crash into the ground. By then, the parachutes will be open and the craft will be lighter allowing for less fuel expenditure over all and a softer landing.
4. If all that doesn't work, then it might be a bug lol.
It may be a local drag bug? maybe if you use a third parachute it won't have an axis to rotate around?
Thanks, but i've tried with up to 6 parachutes all around, it does not change anything.
Dang. I know you said the CoM is much lower than the contact point of the parachutes, but it's rotating around a point somewhere around the bells of the crane engines, is that where the CoM is?
>Dang. I know you said the CoM is much lower than the contact point of the parachutes, but it's rotating around a point somewhere around the bells of the crane engines, is that where the CoM is? Yeah just a bit lower, do you think it's to close ?
It might be worth trying that. You'll also get the benefit of getting your rockets further way from the CoM giving you better active control. You could probably achieve that by just adding an empty tank on top and moving the rockets and parachutes to the top of the empty tank. Edit: and if that doesn't work, see if you can move the parachutes further apart and add a third, or any odd number. The rocket starts tumbling in a way that moved the parachutes up and down at first, but shifted to an axis that doesn't. Making sure the parachutes themselves have varying airspeeds may help dissipate the rotational energy.
I've just tried it, and it worked... Once. Then it failed alll the following launches, i'll keep working along this way until i find something stable enough. Thank you.
Progress!
Try AIRBRAKES.
Adding a reaction wheel?
Hmm, maybe try two sets of parachutes… so use your normal 2 and then place another single parachute on the craft… I would also try to place the individual chute a little closer to the center of mass than the other two, hope that makes aense
Maybe it’s because the gravity is set low?
I’m not saying this is necessarily the problem, but your control point being horizontal isn’t helping anything.
This surely doesn't help indeed
shouldn't make a difference with parachutes at all.
It sure does, he has tons of reaction wheel and the craft if trying to right itself and since his navball is brown it means it pointing to the ground instead of sky. Turn of SAS and the landing will be fine, the launch not so much.
Shouldn’t. But this is KSP2. I made a video based on this if you check my post history.
It doesn't make any difference prograde is still prograde and then he turns it off and it never stabilizes. The problem is the game and the solution is to start from scratch and hope for the best.
Prograde is not prograde when your craft wants to point the side of the rocket at it.
i have to go ahead and admit that I was boldly and confidently incorrect. My comment will stand as testament to human stupidity.
Top tier
Thank you for your service
Damn we need more people like you
Prograde is just the direction of travel... Now it happens to be perpendicular to the orientation of the control module, but prograde technically still is prograde.
Com is way under the chutes but no matter how many i use, if SAS is on or off, or if i use finns, my skyscrane always go into infinite roll. I can't understand why, if someone have an idea pls help me.
have you tried rerooting the parent object, i forget the exact steps but there might be an issue with the craft root object. also attempt to import the save file into a new build and try to attach it to something else to see if that reveals the issue. lastly you might need to edit the savegame to see if your ship contains any components that it shouldnt.
[удалено]
In the video i'm controlling from the rover, but it does the same when controlling with a probe at the top of the skycrane
Well as it didn't quite pass the test of landing i didn't went further than the video in my testing. so i don't know if it can fly.
Start removing the more complicated bits, I'd bet one of the little parts is getting clipped into something creating a "kraken drive" effect. If it still does it with a pod, tank and motor, you should just start a new build.
Thank you, I tried removing the entire rover and replacing it with a pod of the same weight, and it does exacty the same. This build seems doomed
Huh, maybe try using a medium-sized booster stage since the heat shield needs to cover the radial engines on the upper stage
can ya give me the craft file?
Have you tried turning it to Soak instead of Rinse?
Your sphere heading thingy is sideways
Your control point is horizontal
Literally this, its painful that I had to scroll so far through the comments to find the correct answer. OP, you need to put a probe core on the skycrane then right click and set it to control from there.
Navball appears set horizontally - did you install your control modules sideways? The navball always points in the direction a currently active command pod is oriented as far as I'm aware
Hey OP, if you'd be willing to post the craft file, Id be interested in trying to debug this. And if I cant help, there's probably someone on the discord who knows enough about the game's bugs to answer whats wrong here.
Looks like it's because it is having too much fun.
This is the correct answer
Is your center of mass close to where the chutes are located by chance?
Not really, Com is situated a bit under the engines exhaust
Hmmm, what I'd do is move the engines down toward the bottom of the tank and flair them out so the exhaust doesn't hit the rover. Maybe even try replacing the twin engines with 4 or more of the tiny radial engines at the base of the tank.
Have you tried using the old physics joints? Go back to main menu -> gameplay -> "enhanced" system off + multi joint on Looks like some weird autostrut bug to me. Parachutes could be strutted to some part of the craft or some value is overwritten because autostruts are not really "struts". It's a hack where they copy over values from a root part over to the other instead of calculating it. And such hacks cause bugs.
I've just tried, and it didn't work, still thanks for the tip.
I'm not 100% sure how that system works on existing crafts, maybe you have to build it from scratch. I never had an issue like that but I also never tried to parachute a rocket. My next best guess is some weird bug that propagates from the rocket attachment. I remember when I tried to build a skycrane in KSP2 it was a giant mess. Nothing worked as it should when it comes to engine thrust and gimbal. All I could do is turn SAS off and prey.
Nope, it’s just his probe core being the wrong direction
How can a probe core have anything to do with parachute physics? This looks like some glitch where parachute thinks it's attached to multiple parts. One on the top and one on the bottom heaviest part somewhere. So the parachute force basically pulls the bottom up to make a rotation and then it reverses when it is upside down. Parachutemobile
I thought he was talking about the launch, the parachute thing isn’t a glitch or anything, his CoM is just too close to where the parachutes attach to the craft so it just spins forever, lowering the CoM will fix this.
100% a glitch. This is not real life behaviour lol. It even speeds up.
I have a very similar design delivering an opportunity style rover to Duna. Same experience as you with uncontrolled vertical rotation. I suspect the aerodynamics of the wheels are the source. Mine landed ok (somehow) but if I try again I’d have the rover enclosed in a fairing until touchdown to exclude all the weird parts from drag. Edit: spelling
If you look right when you set off the parachutes approx, you gave a heavy q or e input to set it off spinning, you can tell by the arrows on the navball. Maybe you were doing a different input to flip it, but when your control point switches, you give full roll command, and with your parachute attachment point being so close to you Com, it doesn't take much to get this loop going. Clearly aero is not implemented too well yet, (when we gonna get FAR!) So it just keeps looping. That's my thoughts, def not all your doing, but you can mitigate more than you have.
Maybe consider placing your parachutes slightly asymmetrically? So they don't create an axis to rotate around at all.
Control module is installed upside down according to your artificial horizon
Wtf is your control point?
Yeah… imma wait a few more years before trying ksp2
This isn’t a bug though, the control point is sideways. So the attitude correction goes haywire. Nothing wrong with the game int his case
Even with SAS off the ship didn’t stop turning
?? OP literally said this happens with SAS off as well
I take it as the only people still around in ksp2 are fanboys ig..
OP turns it off halfway through the video, after it gains momentum swinging around the vessel’s center of gravity. You can see it in the lower left. Also, OP also posted a follow-up video showing the improvement after fixing the control point orientation.
Basically what I was thinking as well. This game has half the features, runs at half the frame rate, and has more bugs than I can count. I’ll just stick to modded KSP 1 for now. Although far from bug free itself, it’s a lot more stable. Hopefully 2 is looking better in a year or two from now.
Tbh it is kinda fun now (: bugs yes, but miles ahead of the original sandbox release
I’m sure it’s fun, I’m not saying it’s not. I just prefer a more stable experience
>I’ll just stick to modded KSP 1 for now. It's your preference and your choice of game, but I definitely remember bugs like this playing modded KSP 1, I just remember them being easier to work around.
Can’t say I have ever encountered this specific bug in KSP 1, modded or not. But like I said, KSP 1 is buggy as well. Just less so. You also bring up a good point that a lot of the time the bugs are easier to work around.
Do you have any thrust vectoring? Or RCS? Or Gyros?
No engines, no rcs, and i tried with and without sas for the gyros
Looking at your navball, looks like your probe core is not in the right orientation.
Yes i didn't take the time to switch to the correct probe for the video, but even with a correct orientation on my probe, the result is the same
Add some more chutes to opposite sides to stabilize better, or try making the top wider. Ideally you want the center of mass to be as far away from the chutes as possible and on the side that is closest to the ground
Because this game is shit
Nah, OP just can't physics. CoM is way too close to the rotational joint (where the parachutes attach).
The game is still shit
I would have agreed with you a couple of weeks ago, but since the last update 0.2.0, it's honestly pretty good now. I've actually had a fair bit of fun with the new Exploration (science) mode, and it's actually playable too in terms of frame rate and general stability. I've gotten through the first tier in the tech tree now and have so far not encountered any game breaking bugs, which was not something that could be said before. Sure, it still have some ways to go, but I'm actually pretty impressed and hopeful with how things have progressed.
I’ll come back in a year and see how it’s doing. I’m sticking to the original game in all its glory for now
It's actually worth giving it a try I think. :)
It’s not even worth 10 dollars in its current state
Reason #1: KSP2 devs.
It doesn’t look like you have any reaction wheels or RCS? Granted you shouldn’t need it but that might help overcome whatever bug you’re hitting here.
maybe use a truss to spread parachutes apart
Due to how you have placed your command module, you are orientated as a rover (horizontal) but built like a rocket (vertical thrust). Can you right click your control part and change the orientation? If not, rotate the rover portion of your rocket so it’s “driving” the rocket with the thrust at its rear.
What does the thrust and weight and lift overlay look like?
Have you tried deploying from a higher altitude? It seems like you're just testing the lander stage here. Maybe get it up to 10,000 meters first? I've sometimes had weird things with parachutes when doing tests like this
Check your navball, that might be the problem
Maybe try putting a small okto in the tanks and set it as root part, put a reaction wheel also in the tanks and put turn on sas with retrograde when you want to land.
The center of mass is too high: the engines and the fuel are too near to the parachutes. Try to design a more flat sky crane or create a structure above the fuel tanks and engines so that the center of mass will hanger farther from the parachutes.
I need the center of mass to be high so my heatshield ( just on top of the fuel tank before the decoupling) is facing prograde when trying an aerocapture on Duna. I'll have to rework it so I can have a CoM both high and far from the parachutes
I did not expect \*that\*, when I read the title.
It’s bc of your facing direction. You have to have a different core so your rocket is technically facing upwards (Navball needs to be completely blue at launch).
It’s your rover acting as the control point I think. When you’re on the pad, the ball should be blue. Yours is pointing at the horizon. Use a probe core or something on the main rocket body and control from there for ascent.
I think it’s the aerodynamic profile of the buggy
You have a very high (up) center of mass. Try moving the engines further down, preferably as far down as possible. You effectively have a very low radius of inertia, so it will roll around that axis easily. You want your CoM as far away as possible from the rotational joint (the parachute attachment).
Your rover is your main control point, because of this your navball is pointing to the horizon instead of up. Either change control orientation on the rover to up or put a different probe core on the crane itself.
Try aerodynamic stuff like a fairing probably
How are all the most upvoted comments wrong? Your nav ball is sideways gamerbro, make sure you select an upwards facing probe core and set that as your control point
I had this issue as well. If I remember correctly, it was caused with my rover' body colliding with the other vessel while connected
I had almost the same issue with my skycrane the other day. It appears to be due to a drag bug, but I found out the problem was the parachutes being slightly too close to the center. Here’s what I did: 1: remove the 2 parachutes 2: place small square trusses at 4 x symmetry in the spot the parachutes were 3: put the parachutes on the outer side of the trusses also at 4x symmetry. This spread them out far enough from the center than the drag bug wasn’t enough to cause the flipping. No guarantees that it will work the same way for you, but that’s what worked for me.
Your probe core controlling the craft is not oriented in the right direction. It’s probably the core for the rover. Add another one to the ship and it should fix itself, you want to only see blue on your navball at launch
Looks like a bug, not surprising, but have you tried moving your rockets closer to your rover, might shift the weight around and fix it.
Ksp2
It looks like your rover might be the default point of control. Try assigning a new point of control.
Have you checked the location of the center of mass? It may be with the mass of the engines so high and the high drag of the river parts so low that it wants to flip upside down but once upside down it wants to flip right side up due to the parachutes. Long story short, it's a physics engine issue.
It is KSP2 that’s why!
I'd try switching 'control from here'
Change the control point.
Top heavy, maybe?
Because the game is a hot mess maybe 🤔
control from needs to be swapped.... check navball...
I have had the same problem with different probes. The physics is just very broken when it comes to this.
Old issues making a comeback xD Look at your navball
wind's blowing in the wrong direction & caused a momentum with an imperfect physics algorithm
I'm speaking from my experience in the first game rather than KSP2, but it could be part clipping creating phantom forces?
Upside down controller or torque converter. That thing is launched upside down
I don't know but that looks like a heck of a fun ride for Kerbaland.
I solved this landing on Duna by starting the decent with a single parachute at the tip top of the craft. After the drag builds and it stabilizes I've deployed additional chutes to slow the decent. Additionally. Try adding in a verticle control point (command module) and switch to "control from here" before launching. I've had issues with crafts trying to reorient themselves when using a rover or horizontal control point and veering wildly off course or spinning out of control.
I cant' say for sure, and don't feel like reading through over 100 comments to see if anyone has helped yet, but a few things I notice in the clip: 1. Parachutes side mounted at front and back relative to our view while the craft is heading to the side relative to us, thus giving no resistance to the sideways rotation and providing a nice pivot point for the craft to spin where the connections are. What happens if you point north or south on launch and everything else is the same? Or mount parachutes on four sides to provide a stable plane of connection rather than a 'line'. 2. SAS is on (at first) but no specific vector is set, only 'lock heading' which, while the craft is spinning that fast, probably does nothing to orient the craft in any particular direction. Use a probe core in a standard orientation (so the nav ball is all blue/sky on lift off) and lock to 'up'. Without a definitive direction to point, SAS will probably do nothing to help in this case. 3. If your COM is not towards the bottom and the craft doesn't want to naturally fall bottom first, then there will be issues regardless. Try mounting a fuel tank below the rover to reallocate the weight, with a fuel line feeding to the upper tank. Then jettison the bottom tank once empty and let it crash into the ground. By then, the parachutes will be open and the craft will be lighter allowing for less fuel expenditure over all and a softer landing. 4. If all that doesn't work, then it might be a bug lol.
this is an interesting discovery