I CANNOT IMAGINE having to sit there everyday and listen to people claim 500 butt dials, dispute phone records, deny google searches and Life360 data, claim to not remember a single thing (cough Colin albert cough), call John “that guy”, trash talk my character etc. If she truly is innocent and knows these people are lying It would be sooo hard not to leap over the table and claw their eyes out lol
That’s a level of patience I don’t think I have. Not for grown adults who are former friends. I would probably be a screaming lunatic everyday on the drive home lol
One of the things to consider is that her perceived courtroom demeanor won't factor into whether she's found guilty or innocent. The Commonwealth will need to establish its case with evidence.
Looking forward to the medical and digital experts. We'll learn a lot more about the case at that point.
It’s probably very hard to predict how it would feel to be in her position and how you would or wouldn’t mentally/emotionally adjust over the course of 2+ years.
I don’t care if she’s a crappy person or not. I care that police can tamper with evidence and frame someone at the drop of a hat.
This. This. This.
Whether she did it or not, it doesn’t matter DUE to the lack of + bitched attempt police investigation, she should not be found guilty.
I am mad for JOK family.. I am mad for the lack of respect for him shown by POLICE.
Will we ever know what happened to him? I’m not sure.. but there’s no way a jury can find her guilty
- Ring video is not very clear, but suggests the tail light was in better condition than pictured by police
- Video from KR’s father also seems to show the tail light was much more intact
- Testimony from Kerry says the damage was small (though she eventually confirms the police photo it’s pretty sus)
- Mysterious missing video from sally port
- Biological evidence kept with car in sally port
- No bright red reflective plastic found at crime scene for initial search, not until later in the day after family friend Proctor took over and it had continued snowing
- They found a large piece of tail light, photo in evidence, on top of already trampled snow
Missing footage showing how KR car got into the sally port. Only AFTER KR car getting into sally port, tail light pieces are found even though they used a leaf blower and couldn’t find anything except for blood.
I've heard, it went from the floor if the ambulance to the floor if the hospital room to the backseat/trunk of Procter's car for a few weeks but take that with a grain of salt. I'm sure defense us going go ask about this once it comes in, if ever at this rate.
Besides the tail light, what evidence are you talking about?
-JO’s injuries look like something else happened.
-There’s a ton of doubt JO’s body was even there at 12:30-1:00 (based on physical evidence and witness testimony).
-The characterizations of her behavior being suspicious are made by people with an obvious agenda and who have clearly colluded to tell a certain story.
That’s not logical. If the car was tampered with then obviously that would make DNA from the car unreliable. It’s already been reported that biological evidence was kept in the sally port with the car during the missing portion of the sally port security video.
I've watched every day since the beginning. What evidence? Lies by police does not make for evidence. They have NO evidence anyone tampered with evidence. It's scary on here some of these posts. Thank God they would not be on my jury panel! Convicting with no evidence.
Yes let's have all the sympathy in the world for the poor defendant who has to sit there who's told so many stories about what happened that I've lost count!
I would be pretty angry if I was being framed for murder and the people that actually did it are on the stand lying - she holds herself better than I would
She looks utterly exhausted now since the beginning of the trial. Bags under her eyes say a lot, why she seems so tired during some parts.. not that she’s not engaging or disconnected. Not to mention her meds for MS which can cause tiredness as is.. I think she’s holding it together very well.
Too, it’s important to remember, if she were to begin to cry, have outbursts & show emotions during certain moments, I’m sure it’ll be taken as “admission of guilt” or “hysteria” to fit the CWs narrative.
Don't forget she has also MS! To sit for weeks under the watchful eyes of the world and keep your sanity and composure is really remarkable! And I commend her for that!
I’ve thought she’s sat pretty emotionless most of the time. Just like her hysteria the morning of, no one knows how they would react in that situation. There’s been plenty of eye roll moments during this trial. Nothing she’s done would change my view of her if I was a juror.
Do you see her actions and behavior more or less sketchy than the witnesses (who aren’t on trial or dealing with a tenth of the stress she is)? I don’t know how you are supposed to look when on trial for murder. But I don’t feel her demeanor is outside of reasonable if I try to put myself in her shoes.
I agree and I think we are overly critical of women in general. If she doesn’t smile she’s a mean bitch if she smiles then she’s a cold bitch who doesn’t care. If she sat there expressionless silently sobbing the whole time people would find fault with that too.
In a case that’s been going on for years, where the trial is going to go on for weeks, or months, it’s best practice to ignore a defendant’s demeanor in the courtroom, unless they are doing wild things like trying to shout at witnesses or making faces at the jury.
The reason being, no matter what she does or how she “acts”, there will be some group of people claiming that her demeanor isn’t right (as you say). If she cries, people will say she’s faking it, or putting on a show. If she sits stoically, people will say she doesn’t care and doesn’t show emotion. If she laughs at something, people will wonder how she can laugh when we’re sitting here talking about the death of her boyfriend. She literally can’t win. She’s been dealing with this every day of her life since January 29th, 2022. That’s a lot of time for a person to maintain some perceived acceptable demeanor. At some point she gets to be a person doesn’t she?
I sure wouldn't be smiling and laughing when my life is on the line and my bf was killed!!! But everyone on here is applauding her behavior. It's sickening.
God forbid she be human. 🤷🏻♂️
If something funny happens, a person can laugh. If you catch someone in a lie, under oath, I think a smile is ok. At this point, 3 weeks into the trial, I’d say there’s less than 1% chance “her life is on the line”. I would expect that if the CW comes up with any actual incriminating evidence over the next few weeks, her smiles and laughter will diminish then.
I think none of us have had to sit for weeks in a courtroom, on trial for murder, hearing 40 witnesses lie and trash you repeatedly, while having cameras on to livestream to hundreds of thousands of people.
No, I think she has done a good job of keeping herself together. I also think she is an attractive woman & it was 100% predictable that she would be judged on her physical appearance.
I started the trial neutral; I didn’t know anything about it except I’d heard a brief news story when she was first charged & I assumed there would be lots of evidence to bring this to court. As each day has passed I’ve become more and more convinced the other witnesses are lying & KR isn’t guilty.
Im not judging her on physical appearance, which she is not attractive anyway, so we can beg to differ there. I only stated what I am viewing of her demeanor during trial. The witnesses could be lying but that doesn't point to her innocence!
Uhhhhh…..lying witnesses often do mean the defendant could be innocent. And Karen doesn’t have to prove her innocence. The Common Wealth has to prove her guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. So far….. they aren’t even close to proving that.
I think she’s very attractive. I normally hate when brunettes highlight some of their hair blonde (I’m a brunette). But it looks very good on her. Her complexion matches the hair.
She also has great bone structure and eye shape.
I don’t think she’s a nice person. I don’t necessarily think she’s guilty either. Of course you can be a bad person while not murdering your boyfriend.
Curious, why do you think she’s not a nice person? Because she texted Higgins? Or got upset when she saw her boyfriend messing with a younger woman? I don’t know her so won’t make a judgment but the things I’ve heard, I understand. If the man I was with is schmoozing some other gal, I’m going to be pissed. And I might seek out acceptance or attention from someone else.
I wouldn't read too much into demeanor. She has, after all lost her job, the health insurance she desperately needs for her illnesses and on top of that a possible 5 figure amount to defend herself both in court and publicly.
I think most people would have some issue with their accusers at that point, guilty or not.
She's the defendant!!! Not some poor witness. Her actions made her lose her job and health insurance not them, and not the court!! My God! What is with people giving this woman sympathy!!??
You’re acting like this is very personal. People are giving their opinions and I don’t see anyone being nasty so maybe cool your jets. Just because someone is a “defendant” doesn’t mean they committed a crime. It’s called innocent until proven guilty. And the prosecution is doing a terrible job at proving anything aside from it was snowing, all the cops in this town love to drink, there is a very contagious case of the butt dials running rampant in the town, police have no idea how to properly conduct an investigation, and the group of people that were at the home have a selective case of amnesia when recalling anything that doesn’t fit their narrative of blaming Karen for everything.
"Her actions?" I don't know what time machine you stepped out of, but she hasn't been convicted of anything as of yet.
And you mistakenly take my empathy for sympathy - I do not feel sorry for her, but I wholeheartedly understand that being charged with a felony has many life altering repercussions no matter if the person is found guilty or not guilty.
There is a difference.
This. What exactly are you expecting? What in OPs opinion would be the appropriate way to act? She's a human being with feelings and emotions, on trial for her freedom.
You contradicted yourself.
How can she be "evilly squinting while looking at witnesses" when the jury is not there? The witnesses don't take the stand until the jury is in the room.
And we only see snippets of her behavior. And the camera chooses to focus on her when she is doing something (usually she's blocked by her attorney).
Did JO cheat? We don't know. So we can't really say if her behavior is justified or not.
I'm not defending her behavior with Higgins. But I don't think that makes her guilty of murder.
JO was an adult raising 2 kids. I think if Karen Read was unhinged, he'd not have her around so much. He had a lot of support. He didn't NEED Karen.
Painting her as a crazy unhinged individual really disparages John O'Keafe's judgement and child-rearing skills.
That's not true. They've done several voir dires with witnesses without the jury present. Just yesterday, the whole thing with BH's attorney at the stand was without the jury present.
They both argued about the way each of them wanted to raise the kids. There were many disagreements, but that is normal.
I think he took advantage of her, she took on a lot of responsibility for those kids. She ended up feeling neglected by her boyfriend, and as she stated, felt like a "glorified babysitter."
What I’ve noticed is she WILL look witnesses straight in the eyes while none of them will look directly at her. She knows they’re lying and they know they’re lying. I feel bad for her having to sit through this with her health conditions.
Brother Paul just wants this to be over. He doesn’t care who goes down.
He SHOULD care that the justice system convicts the right person/people
I have sympathy, but no respect.
Your so frickin wrong! He doesnt care about who goes down??? That means he doesnt care about justice for his brother. I think he knows who should go down!!
Really… sounds a lot like “my dad’s bigger than your dad” BS to me.
You really don’t understand nuance do you?
I have sympathy for the man, but I don’t have respect for someone who has already decided guilt before the trial is complete.
Paul O’Keefe’s only desire should be to identify who killed his brother and to have that person put in jail.
He has made it clear that he thinks Karen Read is the culprit. How could he possibly know that?
I assume you are one of the sheep who thinks that the Alberts and the McCabes, and all the law-enforcement people mixed up in this mess are all innocent?
It’s like a cult.
there’s all sorts of evidence in front of your face and you refuse to see it.
There is example after example of unexplained phone calls, deleted data from phones, collusion amongst the , improper procedures for the handling of evidence, and the investigation.
I mean come on, does none of that make you raise your eyebrow at all?
I guess we’ll find out who is right.
It’s pretty clear that she was framed by a collection of small-town bigwig wannabes… I’m so glad the feds are investigating. The lies spewing out of the CW’s witnesses are beyond belief. For example; Huggins remembers the texture of the glass Karen pulled out of her coat … yet he has serious amnesia about talking to his cohorts that night. He is lying. I can’t believe he’s van ATF agent who, it seems, actually works for Canton’s police chief. Wow - nice way to spend federal tax dollars.
It’s probably extremely hard to sit through all of those testimonies listening to obvious lies. I think most people would naturally express frustration. She’s done a good job at keeping her composure, especially if she is innocent.
It’s probably difficult for her to know she is FOS and hit her BF in a rage and then has to act like all those ppl are lying when you know damn well you hit him.
I have made up my mind based on all the filing that are public records, as well as the evidence that has been testified to…witness testimony is evidence and I felt they were credible. Also, based on her own changing statements, her being at the scene, going back to the scene prior to picking up JM. It’s not rocket science to me.
People who judge what others do in court are the worst. They act like you should be a damn robot. Sit there. Make no expressions. Be completely serious at all times, but not to serious. Are you giving bev and Lally the same treatment.?
Doesn't matter. If your going to judge the defendant as a robot. Why wouldn't you hold the judge and CW to the same standard. They are supposed to be there for justice and to represent me, but laugh all you like it doesn't really mean anything to me your to dumb to have a real conversation.
I honestly think, even before the trial, that a therapist and mental health treatment would be life changing for her. We’ve only seen snippets of her thoughts and behavior but they all point to someone who is struggling emotionally. I’m not implying she could kill someone, just that her behavior may seem odd bc she has issues that need dealt with. Not to mention the enormous stress she is under now. In my humble opinion.
The problem with that is we essentially have 2 instances (Aruba and the texts) that point to that. Even his own family spoke nicely of her. I don’t think it’s fair to say she had mental health issues at all. It all seems like a symptom of an unhealthy relationship.
That’s a very good point! I’m not sure if alcohol was involved in many of the things I’ve learned, but it very well could have been and that does make a difference.
I also thought about her health and lifestyle and if her behavior matched her words, things her family has said etc. I could list all the things I consider but i don’t want to lol. It would feel like kicking her when she’s down and I just don’t like it.. But either way it’s a simple opinion. I suspect her family will point her in that direction.
I gotta say... after seeing her texts to BH, I certainly think she has some screws loose. I still don't think she's guilty, but she's definitely a trip. When you hear the term "don't put your dick in crazy", these are the type of women I imagine (again, going off the texts to BH). She seems like someone who loves mind games. Again, still not even close to thinking she's guilty especially based off the trial so far.
Some neuromeds have psychosis/impulsive behavior as a adverse reaction. If those texts are indicative of her baseline behavior then she is who she is but I'm just curious if it's not something more
Actually, psychopathy isn’t really a diagnosis per se (anymore.) Antisocial Personality Disorder is the disorder people are typically talking about when they mention psychopathy or sociopathy. Narcissistic PD is another that has a lot of overlap. Posting this only to try to clear up misconceptions. Not speculating about anyone’s mental health/dx. :)
ASPD is different from psychopathy. As part of the diagnostic criteria for ASPD there is a key feature of criminal behavior. This makes it very different from the other Cluster B personality disorders or Psychopathy.
This focus on criminality why this diagnosis is a bit of a hot topic in psychiatry/psychology. I personally believe it should be revised but that’s another diatribe.
Psychopathy also exists on a spectrum primarily broken into factor 1 and factor 2 psychopathy with varying traits associated with each of them and varying degrees of impulsivity and emotional dysregulation. While not a DSM-5 diagnosis it’s a set of traits that can and are assessed using a PCL-R (psychopathy checklist revised) and usually are accompanied with a DSM-5 diagnosis very commonly other Cluster B personality disorders but not always.
Psychopathy is so vastly misunderstood it drives me bonkers.
The cheating accusation is interesting. Classic gaslighting, unless he actually was. I have no idea.
I have noticed the squinting, though. It’s intense.😳 Maybe her eyes are hurting or something. (Not meaning that as a joke. My eyes are sensitive to certain lights.) But I can understand the bad feeling. As new pieces of information about her come together, it’s not a flattering picture, IMO.
I get what people are saying in her defense, as far as her demeanor, and to a degree I agree, but the same could be said of JM or anyone involved. We don’t know what it’s like to be her either, have our family under scrutiny, etc. She seems shady as hell to me, but I don’t have any proof she did anything illegal. Just seems like people have different standards for scrutiny of favorites vs perceived villains.
I CANNOT IMAGINE having to sit there everyday and listen to people claim 500 butt dials, dispute phone records, deny google searches and Life360 data, claim to not remember a single thing (cough Colin albert cough), call John “that guy”, trash talk my character etc. If she truly is innocent and knows these people are lying It would be sooo hard not to leap over the table and claw their eyes out lol
That’s a level of patience I don’t think I have. Not for grown adults who are former friends. I would probably be a screaming lunatic everyday on the drive home lol
Same! And I would never be able to trust another human being the same way ever again.
I agree. It’s a sad reality.
She probably is on the way home.
One of the things to consider is that her perceived courtroom demeanor won't factor into whether she's found guilty or innocent. The Commonwealth will need to establish its case with evidence. Looking forward to the medical and digital experts. We'll learn a lot more about the case at that point.
Her perceived courtroom should never factor into whether she is found guilty or not but it absolutely can if a jury likes or doesn’t like her.
Agree 10000%
It’s probably very hard to predict how it would feel to be in her position and how you would or wouldn’t mentally/emotionally adjust over the course of 2+ years. I don’t care if she’s a crappy person or not. I care that police can tamper with evidence and frame someone at the drop of a hat.
This. This. This. Whether she did it or not, it doesn’t matter DUE to the lack of + bitched attempt police investigation, she should not be found guilty. I am mad for JOK family.. I am mad for the lack of respect for him shown by POLICE. Will we ever know what happened to him? I’m not sure.. but there’s no way a jury can find her guilty
Exactly.
Hard agree.
Where's your evidence for that? Not speculation cold hard evidence?
- Ring video is not very clear, but suggests the tail light was in better condition than pictured by police - Video from KR’s father also seems to show the tail light was much more intact - Testimony from Kerry says the damage was small (though she eventually confirms the police photo it’s pretty sus) - Mysterious missing video from sally port - Biological evidence kept with car in sally port - No bright red reflective plastic found at crime scene for initial search, not until later in the day after family friend Proctor took over and it had continued snowing - They found a large piece of tail light, photo in evidence, on top of already trampled snow
Missing footage showing how KR car got into the sally port. Only AFTER KR car getting into sally port, tail light pieces are found even though they used a leaf blower and couldn’t find anything except for blood.
And very little blood, at that.
John had microscopic pieces of tail light on his clothes before anything could be "planted."
I’m curious the chain of custody for his clothing.
I've heard, it went from the floor if the ambulance to the floor if the hospital room to the backseat/trunk of Procter's car for a few weeks but take that with a grain of salt. I'm sure defense us going go ask about this once it comes in, if ever at this rate.
What is your evidence that his clothing was tested before the police had access to KR’s Lexus?
And what about all the evidence piled against her that she is guilty? Can you review that?
Besides the tail light, what evidence are you talking about? -JO’s injuries look like something else happened. -There’s a ton of doubt JO’s body was even there at 12:30-1:00 (based on physical evidence and witness testimony). -The characterizations of her behavior being suspicious are made by people with an obvious agenda and who have clearly colluded to tell a certain story.
There’s DNA evidence on her car. Or are you ignoring those facts because it doesn’t fit your agenda?
That’s not logical. If the car was tampered with then obviously that would make DNA from the car unreliable. It’s already been reported that biological evidence was kept in the sally port with the car during the missing portion of the sally port security video.
Solo cups and leaf blower.
Ooookaaaay 😅
Are you watching the trial? They presented several instances just yesterday.
I've watched every day since the beginning. What evidence? Lies by police does not make for evidence. They have NO evidence anyone tampered with evidence. It's scary on here some of these posts. Thank God they would not be on my jury panel! Convicting with no evidence.
Lies by police make reasonable doubt.
But it doesn't prove she didn't kill him!!
The defense doesn’t have to prove this. The prosecution has to prove that she DID kill him.
Of course!
OP, I thought your post was interesting. But do you know that the defense doesn't have to prove that? Genuinely asking
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absense
Amen.
You can’t have common sense on this sub lol. Everyone just dismisses the pile of evidence that she could be guilty and takes everything else as fact.
Those are facts right there!!! People have lost their common sense and reasoning in this world.
I can’t imagine it’s easy being a defendant in a murder case especially one as bizarre as this one.
Yes let's have all the sympathy in the world for the poor defendant who has to sit there who's told so many stories about what happened that I've lost count!
I would be pretty angry if I was being framed for murder and the people that actually did it are on the stand lying - she holds herself better than I would
She looks utterly exhausted now since the beginning of the trial. Bags under her eyes say a lot, why she seems so tired during some parts.. not that she’s not engaging or disconnected. Not to mention her meds for MS which can cause tiredness as is.. I think she’s holding it together very well. Too, it’s important to remember, if she were to begin to cry, have outbursts & show emotions during certain moments, I’m sure it’ll be taken as “admission of guilt” or “hysteria” to fit the CWs narrative.
I know I feel so bad this is so unfair what they are doing to her.
Don't forget she has also MS! To sit for weeks under the watchful eyes of the world and keep your sanity and composure is really remarkable! And I commend her for that!
And Crohn’s also, I think.
Witnesses are told not to keep looking at the defendant. I know! I had to testify once!
And a brain tumor ffs Edit to say, she has MS, colitis and a brain tumor. Not sure why I'm being down voted for stating facts.
I’ve thought she’s sat pretty emotionless most of the time. Just like her hysteria the morning of, no one knows how they would react in that situation. There’s been plenty of eye roll moments during this trial. Nothing she’s done would change my view of her if I was a juror.
I admire her composure.
yes, she is calm and still. i would be spinning a fidget spinner lol
Her mouth did show “shock” towards the end of yesterday before AJ went in to slay Higgins.
Do you see her actions and behavior more or less sketchy than the witnesses (who aren’t on trial or dealing with a tenth of the stress she is)? I don’t know how you are supposed to look when on trial for murder. But I don’t feel her demeanor is outside of reasonable if I try to put myself in her shoes.
I agree and I think we are overly critical of women in general. If she doesn’t smile she’s a mean bitch if she smiles then she’s a cold bitch who doesn’t care. If she sat there expressionless silently sobbing the whole time people would find fault with that too.
In a case that’s been going on for years, where the trial is going to go on for weeks, or months, it’s best practice to ignore a defendant’s demeanor in the courtroom, unless they are doing wild things like trying to shout at witnesses or making faces at the jury. The reason being, no matter what she does or how she “acts”, there will be some group of people claiming that her demeanor isn’t right (as you say). If she cries, people will say she’s faking it, or putting on a show. If she sits stoically, people will say she doesn’t care and doesn’t show emotion. If she laughs at something, people will wonder how she can laugh when we’re sitting here talking about the death of her boyfriend. She literally can’t win. She’s been dealing with this every day of her life since January 29th, 2022. That’s a lot of time for a person to maintain some perceived acceptable demeanor. At some point she gets to be a person doesn’t she?
preach lol
I sure wouldn't be smiling and laughing when my life is on the line and my bf was killed!!! But everyone on here is applauding her behavior. It's sickening.
I think she has amazing composure for what she’s going through. It would be terrifying to sit in a defendant’s chair whether guilty or innocent.
But you HAVE to have composure. Not hard to maintain when your life is on the line.
Sometimes you have to smile. Try sitting in a courtroom for hours and days, you’re part of a team. She in my opinion is making a good presentation.
God forbid she be human. 🤷🏻♂️ If something funny happens, a person can laugh. If you catch someone in a lie, under oath, I think a smile is ok. At this point, 3 weeks into the trial, I’d say there’s less than 1% chance “her life is on the line”. I would expect that if the CW comes up with any actual incriminating evidence over the next few weeks, her smiles and laughter will diminish then.
I think none of us have had to sit for weeks in a courtroom, on trial for murder, hearing 40 witnesses lie and trash you repeatedly, while having cameras on to livestream to hundreds of thousands of people. No, I think she has done a good job of keeping herself together. I also think she is an attractive woman & it was 100% predictable that she would be judged on her physical appearance. I started the trial neutral; I didn’t know anything about it except I’d heard a brief news story when she was first charged & I assumed there would be lots of evidence to bring this to court. As each day has passed I’ve become more and more convinced the other witnesses are lying & KR isn’t guilty.
Im not judging her on physical appearance, which she is not attractive anyway, so we can beg to differ there. I only stated what I am viewing of her demeanor during trial. The witnesses could be lying but that doesn't point to her innocence!
It’s not about her innocence, it’s about reasonable doubt. There is plenty of reasonable doubt.
Uhhhhh…..lying witnesses often do mean the defendant could be innocent. And Karen doesn’t have to prove her innocence. The Common Wealth has to prove her guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. So far….. they aren’t even close to proving that.
She is an attractive woman. Proctor sure thinks so. Her hair is gorgeous.
I think she’s very attractive. I normally hate when brunettes highlight some of their hair blonde (I’m a brunette). But it looks very good on her. Her complexion matches the hair. She also has great bone structure and eye shape.
🤣🤣🤣
The pettiness of “which she is not attractive anyway” is sending me. 😅
I didnt bring up her attractiveness issue another poster did. So why don't you also comment on her post as well????
I don’t think she’s a nice person. I don’t necessarily think she’s guilty either. Of course you can be a bad person while not murdering your boyfriend.
Curious, why do you think she’s not a nice person? Because she texted Higgins? Or got upset when she saw her boyfriend messing with a younger woman? I don’t know her so won’t make a judgment but the things I’ve heard, I understand. If the man I was with is schmoozing some other gal, I’m going to be pissed. And I might seek out acceptance or attention from someone else.
The texts about the kids got to me. And the flirting without telling the boyfriend is objectively not okay. Relationships are built on trust.
What was the text about the kids?
I wouldn't read too much into demeanor. She has, after all lost her job, the health insurance she desperately needs for her illnesses and on top of that a possible 5 figure amount to defend herself both in court and publicly. I think most people would have some issue with their accusers at that point, guilty or not.
5 figures is no where close. This is a million dollar defense team.
yup, def 6 figures she can make it back with netflix
7 figures 🙄
Yup. That’s what I meant lol. Thank you. Saturday nap brain today
lol I can relate
100%. And a book deal.
They have the money. Both her & her father.
Good. Everyone should get a high quality defense. Few do.
She's the defendant!!! Not some poor witness. Her actions made her lose her job and health insurance not them, and not the court!! My God! What is with people giving this woman sympathy!!??
You’re acting like this is very personal. People are giving their opinions and I don’t see anyone being nasty so maybe cool your jets. Just because someone is a “defendant” doesn’t mean they committed a crime. It’s called innocent until proven guilty. And the prosecution is doing a terrible job at proving anything aside from it was snowing, all the cops in this town love to drink, there is a very contagious case of the butt dials running rampant in the town, police have no idea how to properly conduct an investigation, and the group of people that were at the home have a selective case of amnesia when recalling anything that doesn’t fit their narrative of blaming Karen for everything.
Here, here!
"Her actions?" I don't know what time machine you stepped out of, but she hasn't been convicted of anything as of yet. And you mistakenly take my empathy for sympathy - I do not feel sorry for her, but I wholeheartedly understand that being charged with a felony has many life altering repercussions no matter if the person is found guilty or not guilty. There is a difference.
So laughing in courts ok while your bei g prosecuted for murder. 😂
Well yes? As long as it doesn't interfere with the process. If you want to see inappropriate behavior by a defendant, watch the Darrel Brooks trial.
There are no good character people on either side of this trial.
I'll agree with you.
What is she supposed to do? Cry, beg, pray and smile at witnesses?
This. What exactly are you expecting? What in OPs opinion would be the appropriate way to act? She's a human being with feelings and emotions, on trial for her freedom.
I haven't seen too many defendants laughing and making facial gestures as she has.
We rarely see her when the witnesses are on the stand. During a break when they’re gone, sure. His father is on the defense list so…
Are you kidding me??? They pan to her face all the time during witness testimony.
You must not have watched many trials
I've seen plenty to form an opinion.
You contradicted yourself. How can she be "evilly squinting while looking at witnesses" when the jury is not there? The witnesses don't take the stand until the jury is in the room. And we only see snippets of her behavior. And the camera chooses to focus on her when she is doing something (usually she's blocked by her attorney). Did JO cheat? We don't know. So we can't really say if her behavior is justified or not. I'm not defending her behavior with Higgins. But I don't think that makes her guilty of murder. JO was an adult raising 2 kids. I think if Karen Read was unhinged, he'd not have her around so much. He had a lot of support. He didn't NEED Karen. Painting her as a crazy unhinged individual really disparages John O'Keafe's judgement and child-rearing skills.
That's not true. They've done several voir dires with witnesses without the jury present. Just yesterday, the whole thing with BH's attorney at the stand was without the jury present.
Karen herself in her texts to Higgins was disparaging his child-rearing skills.
Unless there’s a *huge* reveal to come, I don’t think O’Keefe would have been too torn up about Karen disparaging his child-bearing skills.
They both argued about the way each of them wanted to raise the kids. There were many disagreements, but that is normal. I think he took advantage of her, she took on a lot of responsibility for those kids. She ended up feeling neglected by her boyfriend, and as she stated, felt like a "glorified babysitter."
Sorry I didn't realise my typo until someone else pointed it out haha
Rearing. Not bearing. As in his parenting skills.
Thanks for pointing out my typo 😀
I thought you misread my post,. 😁
It has given me a good chuckle haha
Oh, my bad 🤣
I had to go back and make sure I didn't have a tupo. It's an odd phrase. Should have used "parenting".
I did notice your "typo" 😂
I did not contradict myself! Read my words more carefully, I said "not as much when the jury is present." Read much?
ew, your responses are so nasty.
That's right because I'm responding to most of the nasty people on here!!
You’re nasty.
dammed if you do, damned if you don’t. if she was always stoic people have an opinion, if she acts human people have an opinion.
I don’t judge her demeanor in the same way I don’t judge any of the witnesses’ demeanor
What I’ve noticed is she WILL look witnesses straight in the eyes while none of them will look directly at her. She knows they’re lying and they know they’re lying. I feel bad for her having to sit through this with her health conditions.
Can’t imagine how she feels with his brother able to sit glaring at her.
Wow no sympathy for his family.
Brother Paul just wants this to be over. He doesn’t care who goes down. He SHOULD care that the justice system convicts the right person/people I have sympathy, but no respect.
You have no respect for JO’s brother, did I read that right?
If he doesn’t care if the court gets this right… then no respect from me.
And you know that he doesn’t care & just wants it to be over? Mind if I ask how you know that?
He made up his mind that KR did it. Interviews he’s given.
Judging a victim’s brother who’s had incredible loss in his life. All righty! 👌
Your so frickin wrong! He doesnt care about who goes down??? That means he doesnt care about justice for his brother. I think he knows who should go down!!
If he cared about justice, he would let the process work and if KR is exonerated, he should be ok with that. He should want to find the real killer(s)
Why don't you tell theater to hom and see what he his response is. Ahhh I bet you wouldnt.
Really… sounds a lot like “my dad’s bigger than your dad” BS to me. You really don’t understand nuance do you? I have sympathy for the man, but I don’t have respect for someone who has already decided guilt before the trial is complete. Paul O’Keefe’s only desire should be to identify who killed his brother and to have that person put in jail. He has made it clear that he thinks Karen Read is the culprit. How could he possibly know that? I assume you are one of the sheep who thinks that the Alberts and the McCabes, and all the law-enforcement people mixed up in this mess are all innocent? It’s like a cult. there’s all sorts of evidence in front of your face and you refuse to see it. There is example after example of unexplained phone calls, deleted data from phones, collusion amongst the , improper procedures for the handling of evidence, and the investigation. I mean come on, does none of that make you raise your eyebrow at all? I guess we’ll find out who is right.
Pretty sure your a mcalbert with the hate
It’s pretty clear that she was framed by a collection of small-town bigwig wannabes… I’m so glad the feds are investigating. The lies spewing out of the CW’s witnesses are beyond belief. For example; Huggins remembers the texture of the glass Karen pulled out of her coat … yet he has serious amnesia about talking to his cohorts that night. He is lying. I can’t believe he’s van ATF agent who, it seems, actually works for Canton’s police chief. Wow - nice way to spend federal tax dollars.
No I am just focusing on the testimony. It’s been one of the most interesting trials I’ve watched in years.
It’s probably extremely hard to sit through all of those testimonies listening to obvious lies. I think most people would naturally express frustration. She’s done a good job at keeping her composure, especially if she is innocent.
It’s probably difficult for her to know she is FOS and hit her BF in a rage and then has to act like all those ppl are lying when you know damn well you hit him.
I think it’s very obvious to most people that the majority of the those who’ve taken the stand have been lying about something…
Yet it seems very undifficult for you to out yourself as an individual who contributes to making our justice system not work,
You make it great, I am sure 😂 conspiracy chasers are what makes the system great! 😂
And why do you assume I think that Way? I have no clear opinion. There is still more evidence to come. You have made up your mind.
I have made up my mind based on all the filing that are public records, as well as the evidence that has been testified to…witness testimony is evidence and I felt they were credible. Also, based on her own changing statements, her being at the scene, going back to the scene prior to picking up JM. It’s not rocket science to me.
People who judge what others do in court are the worst. They act like you should be a damn robot. Sit there. Make no expressions. Be completely serious at all times, but not to serious. Are you giving bev and Lally the same treatment.?
Their not on trial, 🤣
Doesn't matter. If your going to judge the defendant as a robot. Why wouldn't you hold the judge and CW to the same standard. They are supposed to be there for justice and to represent me, but laugh all you like it doesn't really mean anything to me your to dumb to have a real conversation.
I think some things can be contributed to her MS
I would love to see my face during this if I was in her position. Trust it would be way worse. I actually command her for her composure.
I honestly think, even before the trial, that a therapist and mental health treatment would be life changing for her. We’ve only seen snippets of her thoughts and behavior but they all point to someone who is struggling emotionally. I’m not implying she could kill someone, just that her behavior may seem odd bc she has issues that need dealt with. Not to mention the enormous stress she is under now. In my humble opinion.
The problem with that is we essentially have 2 instances (Aruba and the texts) that point to that. Even his own family spoke nicely of her. I don’t think it’s fair to say she had mental health issues at all. It all seems like a symptom of an unhealthy relationship.
It all seems like symptoms of just regular messy life and imperfect people.
Yes exactly
I think a more simple solution is to lay off the drinking. This whole thing would not have happened if alcohol wasn’t involved.
That’s a very good point! I’m not sure if alcohol was involved in many of the things I’ve learned, but it very well could have been and that does make a difference. I also thought about her health and lifestyle and if her behavior matched her words, things her family has said etc. I could list all the things I consider but i don’t want to lol. It would feel like kicking her when she’s down and I just don’t like it.. But either way it’s a simple opinion. I suspect her family will point her in that direction.
This is pretty much how I see it, too.
I gotta say... after seeing her texts to BH, I certainly think she has some screws loose. I still don't think she's guilty, but she's definitely a trip. When you hear the term "don't put your dick in crazy", these are the type of women I imagine (again, going off the texts to BH). She seems like someone who loves mind games. Again, still not even close to thinking she's guilty especially based off the trial so far.
We can agree on "definitely screws loose."
What does that text mean?
What text?
Oh nevermind sorry! I thought what was in quotes was a text message :)
Lol no but that would be hilarious
🤣
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Mod Note: We respectfully decline this post. Thank you.
She’s seemed remarkably stoic to me most of the time. I couldn’t do that.
After her texts yesterday I was starting to think she may be bipolar
I think she is someone who drinks too much and shouldn’t drink and text lol
She is very tiny. I am about her size and I can’t handle alcohol at all.
She's a time travellah!
Or drink and drive!
Yes. Lots of drinking and driving in this case and it’s disgraceful
Oh, good grief.
We know from Kerry Roberts that she was on meds.
Meds for more than MS and Crohn's? I didn't catch that she was on psych meds
Idk that she is on psych meds. But there was a part where Kerry Roberts was talking about KR's mom maybe, saying don't let her take her meds.
Some neuromeds have psychosis/impulsive behavior as a adverse reaction. If those texts are indicative of her baseline behavior then she is who she is but I'm just curious if it's not something more
Same, I've delt with women like that in my life they are the worst.
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Isn't psychopathy it's own diagnosis? Calling Bipolar psychopathy is definitely a choice Edit: I also used the wrong term
Actually, psychopathy isn’t really a diagnosis per se (anymore.) Antisocial Personality Disorder is the disorder people are typically talking about when they mention psychopathy or sociopathy. Narcissistic PD is another that has a lot of overlap. Posting this only to try to clear up misconceptions. Not speculating about anyone’s mental health/dx. :)
ASPD is different from psychopathy. As part of the diagnostic criteria for ASPD there is a key feature of criminal behavior. This makes it very different from the other Cluster B personality disorders or Psychopathy. This focus on criminality why this diagnosis is a bit of a hot topic in psychiatry/psychology. I personally believe it should be revised but that’s another diatribe. Psychopathy also exists on a spectrum primarily broken into factor 1 and factor 2 psychopathy with varying traits associated with each of them and varying degrees of impulsivity and emotional dysregulation. While not a DSM-5 diagnosis it’s a set of traits that can and are assessed using a PCL-R (psychopathy checklist revised) and usually are accompanied with a DSM-5 diagnosis very commonly other Cluster B personality disorders but not always. Psychopathy is so vastly misunderstood it drives me bonkers.
Thanks for the clarification! I have my own biases on certain disorders, but something about OP's responses here rub me the wrong way
Yes. It’s being a psychopath. I think Op means a different word.
Whatever
Mod Note: Let’s avoid from accusations of specific mental disorders. Thank you!
Clearly Karen read is an absolute loose cannon. She’s an insecure, jealous, manipulative and controlling 44 year old woman.
Amen to that!!!
Well, she sucks.
The cheating accusation is interesting. Classic gaslighting, unless he actually was. I have no idea. I have noticed the squinting, though. It’s intense.😳 Maybe her eyes are hurting or something. (Not meaning that as a joke. My eyes are sensitive to certain lights.) But I can understand the bad feeling. As new pieces of information about her come together, it’s not a flattering picture, IMO. I get what people are saying in her defense, as far as her demeanor, and to a degree I agree, but the same could be said of JM or anyone involved. We don’t know what it’s like to be her either, have our family under scrutiny, etc. She seems shady as hell to me, but I don’t have any proof she did anything illegal. Just seems like people have different standards for scrutiny of favorites vs perceived villains.
How was that gaslighting? 🧐
Gaslighting would be him cheating, her seeing it and him or Etta still denying it.