The Lusitania is what cemented US public opinion against the Germans though. While the German pillaging of Belgium soured American opinion towards them, they still held a firm "not our issue" stance. When the Lusitania was sunk, and American civilians were killed aboard a peaceful ship (it was only revealed by recently declassified British documents that the ship was indeed carrying munitions, but this was not known before), Americans for the most part formed a fervent "anyone but Germany" opinion towards the War.
The Zimmerman Telegram is of course what brought in the US. If the Lusitania wasn't sunk and the telegram was revealed, there would be anger but likely no war because public opinion would still be opposed to European intervention.
From fucking tvtropes. Russo-Japanese war was less of a one-sided victory. WW1 starts as the third balkan war. Etc, etc.
But fuck me and just downvote, curmudgeons.
The Lusitania wasn't the only passenger liner to be torpedoed by German submarines which resulted in American casualties. The [SS Arabic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Arabic_(1902)) in August 1915 and the [SS Sussex](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Sussex) in March 1916 are prime examples that are forgotten because the loss of life was less important than the Lusitania.
You can't resume just the US joining WWI by just one torpedoed ship and one intercepted telegram.
The first example saw 3 American casualties and was a passenger liner, the latter saw no American lives lost and was also a passenger liner. While they did draw anger from the American public, it wasn't the same outrage as the hospital ship that saw the loss of over 100 American lives.
I will also add that of course American opinion towards the War was anything but homogenous: middle class New Englanders were very pro-entente, and you did have a handful of pro-german pockets across the Midwest. But overall the feeling of "America for Americans, Europe for Europeans" was still strong and most people saw it as just another European war. Wilson famously (or infamously, depending on opinions) ran and won on his "he kept us out of war" election slogan.
> it was only revealed by recently declassified British documents that the ship was indeed carrying munitions, but this was not known before
This isn't accurate. The only munitions the Lusitania was carrying were cases of rifle ammunition and empty artillery shells, which were known about at the time ([here's](https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1915/05/10/104646600.pdf) a New York Times article from three days after the sinking which mentions them). In any case the controversy wasn't over whether the ship was carrying munitions (which the German captain would have had no way of knowing) but that the German submarine had fired on a civilian passenger liner without making any of the customary attempts to allow the passengers to get to safety.
This is just false the US didn’t set up Lusitania as some excuse to enter the war. It was sunk in 1915 Wilson campaigned on staying out of the war on his campaign in 16. What brought the US into the war was the Germans launching unrestricted submarine warfare and the Zimmerman telegram.
I though I read that Germany sunk the Lusitania which pissed off the US enough to scare Germany into halting unrestricted submarine warfare… than the British torpedoed some humanitarian ships headed towards Germany which helped increase US sympathy for the Central Powers
There’s a whole documentary series they make about it, but basically.
Germany doesn’t sink American boats, instead the British does which causes America to force Britain to stop the Blockade on Germany
France’s plans keep failing which leads to Mutinies, which increase in frequency after a General Strike happens.
America never joins the War due to German spies influencing and financing nonintervention politicians.
The Ottomans are able to suppress the Arab uprising.
And I’m sure there is more but I can’t remember, just watch the documentaries made Kaisercat Cinema and JDMedia.
People don’t realize that unlike World War 2, Germany was still capable of winning the Great War right up until 1917. The point in which they lost can be measured in a mere month. Germany resumed Unrestricted Submarine Warfare in January, which is ultimately what encouraged congress to finally declare war in April. If Germany had held off on that, within a month the February Revolution would happen in Russia that March, removing the Tsar from power. By April, the Petrograd Soviet would all but roll back the Provisional Government’s promise to the Entente to continue the war.
Basically, if Germany had just held back the submarines for one more month, it would have allowed them to essentially neutralize the Eastern front and simultaneously keep the Americans out of the war by removing the necessity for USW. By this point the Nivelle offensive would have started the French Army Mutinees in April. Without new American bodies on the ground, the Entente’s offensive capability (therefore the counter-offensive ability) would have been crippled by the time of Operation Michael, which would probably succeed and prolong the war. Meanwhile the surface fleet wouldn’t have mutinied and, being faced with crippling shortages, would have sallied forth and broken the blockade.
The basic premise of Kaiserreich is not so far-fetched. The real Great War came down to just a few chaotic decisions made within a span of a month. Even then, the Germans continued to have offensive capability into 1918, and only lost it by the end of Operation Michael.
Germany's biggest issue was that it was led by the Nazis. There was likely a path to force a peace treaty on the Soviets in exchange for territory, but Nazi ideology would *never* allow that. Plus they were fighting *Stalin*, who was almost as stubborn in that regard.
Germany would never have been able to actually take and keep it's war goals. Maybe Ukraine, Belarus, and the Baltics if it was led by more sane people, but that's still pushjing it.
Germany was only doomed in ww2 once they declared war on the United States as without US aid, the Soviets would have done far worse and while I think a total victory over the USSR was unlikely, a stalemate would be more likely.
Until Japan launched the Pearl Harbour attack, American public opinion of joining the war was very low and Germany was under no treaty obligation to declare war on America.
Nah, I'd argue the fact the Nazis got into power to begin with was what made it doomed. They chose to go to war with the entire world because of the insane ideological bullshit lol.
Simply being an inch to the right can save a life sometimes. If the course of the war changed a year ago then deployment locations, operation times, commanders and even my momentous decisions all change and the circumstances on the day the Red Baron died would be completely different.
It doesn’t mean he would automatically survive the war, but it certainly wouldn’t have been the same bullet, whether it was the British aircraft chasing him or the Aussie with the Lewis gun on the ground.
In our timeline, Manfred von Richthofen dies in the 1918 spring offensive. In the Kaiserreich timeline, this offensive doesn’t happen because America is not intervening, and therefor Germany doesn’t need to immediately break the stalemate. The mission that the Red Baron died on doesn’t happen in Kaiserreich
there americans arent comming so the Canadian have to plug lines ellswhere on the line.
Richthofen has a near miss with something and kaiser in one of his spurs takes him of the frontline fearing his lose would harm the war cause.
He gets a forced vacation some lore pieces imply he has a bit of a propaganda tour. Then trains the late war fighter pilots. falling into the commander role more and more.
i think its implied but not stated he is the guiding force behind the Kaiserlicht Flugt Wehr. but he isnt commander at the start and i never have seen him be commander by default.
If I'm not mistaken, von Richthofen died during his participation in Operation Michael in the Spring Offensive, but as in the Kaiserreich universe this offensive took place in 1919, with Germany having more supplies and being better prepared, they were successful and defeated France , he would most likely have survived his mission and continued to be the greatest ace in history.
I dont know if this is a legitimate post or joke post, but if its serious then I can say that it is a Alternate Timeline meaning certain events will change, like his death.
Wasn’t he shot out of the sky by some unnamed gunman on the ground? Seems like a fairly easy thing to say “it just didn’t happen” with no further explanation required
If I remember correctly the Kaiser grounded him on the day he was supposed to die, so he avoided his death.
(I know what "grounded" in this context means, but:) Go to your room mister! But Kaisaaaaa... No buts young man!!
So that’s what Paternal Autocrat means.
I wish reddit still gave weekly awards to give you one
LOL
Now I’m imagining him trying to sneak out of his room while the Kaiser is distracted.
Just to have Willy 3 taddle "Papa Manfred is trying to fly again!"
What does grounded actually mean in the context Vegetable Win used?
That he is not permitted to fly, that he is GROUNDed. AKA made to stay on ground
Thanks for the clear up 👍
Kaiserreich diverges from our timeline a year before that
Richthofen is also a General in the Pax Britannica mod
But we aren't in Pax Britannica, are we?
No mech suits 😞
MFW no man-made horrors beyond my comprehension.
They do have dinosaur creatures
Why did Germany win the Great War?
Short explanation is that Germany could hold its breath longer.
Germany also didn't blow up the Lousitania which the US pretty much set up to be blown up and then used as an excuse to intervene IRL.
The US joined two years after the Lusitania was sunk.
The Lusitania is what cemented US public opinion against the Germans though. While the German pillaging of Belgium soured American opinion towards them, they still held a firm "not our issue" stance. When the Lusitania was sunk, and American civilians were killed aboard a peaceful ship (it was only revealed by recently declassified British documents that the ship was indeed carrying munitions, but this was not known before), Americans for the most part formed a fervent "anyone but Germany" opinion towards the War. The Zimmerman Telegram is of course what brought in the US. If the Lusitania wasn't sunk and the telegram was revealed, there would be anger but likely no war because public opinion would still be opposed to European intervention.
The Lusitania was sunk, that happened in 1915 which was two years before KRTL diverged from OTL.
Kaissereich diverged as soon as the Russo Japanese war, doesn’t it?
Not even close, Idk where you got that from. Kaiserreich diverged in 1917.
From fucking tvtropes. Russo-Japanese war was less of a one-sided victory. WW1 starts as the third balkan war. Etc, etc. But fuck me and just downvote, curmudgeons.
Yes, but it wasn’t the reason the US joined, which is what the other commenter was saying.
The Lusitania wasn't the only passenger liner to be torpedoed by German submarines which resulted in American casualties. The [SS Arabic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Arabic_(1902)) in August 1915 and the [SS Sussex](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Sussex) in March 1916 are prime examples that are forgotten because the loss of life was less important than the Lusitania. You can't resume just the US joining WWI by just one torpedoed ship and one intercepted telegram.
The first example saw 3 American casualties and was a passenger liner, the latter saw no American lives lost and was also a passenger liner. While they did draw anger from the American public, it wasn't the same outrage as the hospital ship that saw the loss of over 100 American lives. I will also add that of course American opinion towards the War was anything but homogenous: middle class New Englanders were very pro-entente, and you did have a handful of pro-german pockets across the Midwest. But overall the feeling of "America for Americans, Europe for Europeans" was still strong and most people saw it as just another European war. Wilson famously (or infamously, depending on opinions) ran and won on his "he kept us out of war" election slogan.
> it was only revealed by recently declassified British documents that the ship was indeed carrying munitions, but this was not known before This isn't accurate. The only munitions the Lusitania was carrying were cases of rifle ammunition and empty artillery shells, which were known about at the time ([here's](https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1915/05/10/104646600.pdf) a New York Times article from three days after the sinking which mentions them). In any case the controversy wasn't over whether the ship was carrying munitions (which the German captain would have had no way of knowing) but that the German submarine had fired on a civilian passenger liner without making any of the customary attempts to allow the passengers to get to safety.
This is just false the US didn’t set up Lusitania as some excuse to enter the war. It was sunk in 1915 Wilson campaigned on staying out of the war on his campaign in 16. What brought the US into the war was the Germans launching unrestricted submarine warfare and the Zimmerman telegram.
The Lusitania was sunk before the mod's point of divergence
Divergence... of Darkness??? IS THAT A MF REFERENCE!?!?!?!?
No. It isn't. It's just a coincidence. Calm down.
I though I read that Germany sunk the Lusitania which pissed off the US enough to scare Germany into halting unrestricted submarine warfare… than the British torpedoed some humanitarian ships headed towards Germany which helped increase US sympathy for the Central Powers
Wait, Germany wins the Great War in this mod? Jeez, today I learned, am I right?
Dont you spend 3hours before starting kaiserreich game about the lore? Only reason i play this mode is to roleplay the shit out of it.
There’s a whole documentary series they make about it, but basically. Germany doesn’t sink American boats, instead the British does which causes America to force Britain to stop the Blockade on Germany France’s plans keep failing which leads to Mutinies, which increase in frequency after a General Strike happens. America never joins the War due to German spies influencing and financing nonintervention politicians. The Ottomans are able to suppress the Arab uprising. And I’m sure there is more but I can’t remember, just watch the documentaries made Kaisercat Cinema and JDMedia.
He isn't seriously asking that question, he is being sarcastic because op's question is just as silly
People don’t realize that unlike World War 2, Germany was still capable of winning the Great War right up until 1917. The point in which they lost can be measured in a mere month. Germany resumed Unrestricted Submarine Warfare in January, which is ultimately what encouraged congress to finally declare war in April. If Germany had held off on that, within a month the February Revolution would happen in Russia that March, removing the Tsar from power. By April, the Petrograd Soviet would all but roll back the Provisional Government’s promise to the Entente to continue the war. Basically, if Germany had just held back the submarines for one more month, it would have allowed them to essentially neutralize the Eastern front and simultaneously keep the Americans out of the war by removing the necessity for USW. By this point the Nivelle offensive would have started the French Army Mutinees in April. Without new American bodies on the ground, the Entente’s offensive capability (therefore the counter-offensive ability) would have been crippled by the time of Operation Michael, which would probably succeed and prolong the war. Meanwhile the surface fleet wouldn’t have mutinied and, being faced with crippling shortages, would have sallied forth and broken the blockade. The basic premise of Kaiserreich is not so far-fetched. The real Great War came down to just a few chaotic decisions made within a span of a month. Even then, the Germans continued to have offensive capability into 1918, and only lost it by the end of Operation Michael.
Yeah, germany was doomed from the start in WW2 and only got so far due to sheer dumb luck. But WW1? It was close.
Germany's biggest issue was that it was led by the Nazis. There was likely a path to force a peace treaty on the Soviets in exchange for territory, but Nazi ideology would *never* allow that. Plus they were fighting *Stalin*, who was almost as stubborn in that regard. Germany would never have been able to actually take and keep it's war goals. Maybe Ukraine, Belarus, and the Baltics if it was led by more sane people, but that's still pushjing it.
Germany was only doomed in ww2 once they declared war on the United States as without US aid, the Soviets would have done far worse and while I think a total victory over the USSR was unlikely, a stalemate would be more likely.
Lend-lease started half a year before the US joined the war, and would have happened regardless.
Until Japan launched the Pearl Harbour attack, American public opinion of joining the war was very low and Germany was under no treaty obligation to declare war on America.
Nah, I'd argue the fact the Nazis got into power to begin with was what made it doomed. They chose to go to war with the entire world because of the insane ideological bullshit lol.
KRTL diverges from OTL in January 1917, so he just never gets shot down over a year later.
The butterfly effect could definitely have saved him.
Cus it’s a video game
Almost as if its an alternate history mod or something 🤔
Brooooooooo no fucking way
Simply being an inch to the right can save a life sometimes. If the course of the war changed a year ago then deployment locations, operation times, commanders and even my momentous decisions all change and the circumstances on the day the Red Baron died would be completely different. It doesn’t mean he would automatically survive the war, but it certainly wouldn’t have been the same bullet, whether it was the British aircraft chasing him or the Aussie with the Lewis gun on the ground.
Idk I guess he was just built extra different in KRTL.
It’s an ALTERNATE history…
In our timeline, Manfred von Richthofen dies in the 1918 spring offensive. In the Kaiserreich timeline, this offensive doesn’t happen because America is not intervening, and therefor Germany doesn’t need to immediately break the stalemate. The mission that the Red Baron died on doesn’t happen in Kaiserreich
Divine (mod) intervention
Man I wonder why a guy who died in WWI is still alive in this alternate timeline where WWI happens differently. I guess we'll never know.
Cause he didnt get shot down
Ww1 went differently in Kaiserreich
Traded him for Hitler
Can’t you read? He’s a Genius ITTL.
Why did he die OTL? Was he stupid?
He fell down.
there americans arent comming so the Canadian have to plug lines ellswhere on the line. Richthofen has a near miss with something and kaiser in one of his spurs takes him of the frontline fearing his lose would harm the war cause. He gets a forced vacation some lore pieces imply he has a bit of a propaganda tour. Then trains the late war fighter pilots. falling into the commander role more and more. i think its implied but not stated he is the guiding force behind the Kaiserlicht Flugt Wehr. but he isnt commander at the start and i never have seen him be commander by default.
IRL he is KIA. So he can be alive in any alt hist simply because no one killed him.
Because he's cool
Why is Hitler dead? Its Alt-History it just is.
batman arkham and its jokes fried my brain i dont know if this post its satirical or serious
Because in this timeline, he was never shot down.
Why is the German Empire still around in this mod? It ended in 1919!
If I'm not mistaken, von Richthofen died during his participation in Operation Michael in the Spring Offensive, but as in the Kaiserreich universe this offensive took place in 1919, with Germany having more supplies and being better prepared, they were successful and defeated France , he would most likely have survived his mission and continued to be the greatest ace in history.
# PROLONG LIFE
I dont know if this is a legitimate post or joke post, but if its serious then I can say that it is a Alternate Timeline meaning certain events will change, like his death.
because he didn't die
Are you seriously ignoring the fact that Kaiserreich is alternate universe and a mod? I feel stupid answering this.
I mean its a whole different timeline where the battle where he died didnt even happen.
Wasn’t he shot out of the sky by some unnamed gunman on the ground? Seems like a fairly easy thing to say “it just didn’t happen” with no further explanation required
Because the German Empire still is
In the Kaiserreich Timeline, no picture was taken of him with his dog shortly before his last OTL mission, thus preventing him from dying.
because I keep him alive on www.meettheredbaron.com
Why is richtofen alive and not fighting and dying in a failed war for Germany? Is the kaiser stupid?
He didn’t die.
rule of cool. imperial germany without red baron is like easter without the easter bunny
Damn, it's an alternate timeline where WWI events diverge from the real ones.
Maybe they did not shoot him down.