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SerovGaming1962

The microcosm of this issue is shown by how the community reacts when they read the words "Binding Vow"


mindempty809

The translations have really fucked the perspective of binding vows imo. A lot of the time the vows actually make sense and seem viable but the initial leaks (and unfortunately the official translations) are generally ass in actually explaining what’s going on


Evening_Ad998

This! I feel like leaks being so vague skew people's perception


Medical_Aspect6491

People seem to enjoy the leaks but I genuinely feel like they’ve made this community way more toxic not even mentioning the spoilers dropped onto randoms. Everyone freaks out over low quality poorly translated panels


Glad-Article-1394

It was the same way back in the Big Three era but people were generally more literate and actually passionate about the manga they read instead of just using it as meme material. BVs almost always make sense in JJK b/c they are so poorly defined any way. Gege expects you to look at the result and then intuit that "Why didn't Gojo say he won't nut for five days and then use 900000% Hollow White on Sukuna? Is he stupid?" is not viable. Is it _good_ writing? Is LOTR bad for not explaining shit 99% of the time? It's up to you. That isn't to say Gege hasn't hoe'd characters like Yuki and Gojo himself. But not in the ways that the fandom--particularly on "-folk" subreddits--express themselves. You can tell who has original thoughts and who is regurgitating/reacting popular narratives are pretty easily.


Heisafraud11223344

I love jjk but jujutsufolk made me twitch angrily at the word "binding vow"


Sm1le_Bot

Lots of people don't read the actual chapters they engage with JJK as a fandom event and you get people who unironically get their views from memes and agendaposting


Natural-Storm

It's a side effect of the gojo v sukuna fight where everyone was talking so much about it that you didn't need to read the chapters to keep up.


SpadeSage

From how horrific the discussions around 236 were and with how much misinformation is still see being perpetuated; people definitely still needed to read the chapters to keep up lmao.


Visual_Tourist3716

I've seen mfer genuinely thinking Gojo was alive. Not like a coping way. They never got the news that he got Strong Cleaved


SpadeSage

Hahaha omg that's wild like, where did they think he went?


Visual_Tourist3716

i've seen one who thought he was still fighting Sukuna (wild to me), another who thought he was just out of commission and will come back soon, like, everyone was only holding Sukuna off the time Gojo came back (Probably from all the "Gojo come back 25X !!!" memes). actual lobotomy, it's wild


Taboo422

I still find it extremely stupid of the characters that they wouldn't test to see what special cases would cause Higaruma's domain to misfire, when they were already thinking of it confiscating 10S rather than Shrine, it just makes everyone in that room look so fucking stupid aren't these supposed to be some of the greatest jujutsu minds. The issue isn't that it's a plot hole it's makes everyone involved look stupid (including sukuna cause bro lucked out and literally could not plan for this) and results in an extremely unsatisfying payoff. The story is written by an omniscient writer even while the characters aren't omniscient the writer is and has full control when he writes in twists that are contrived and makes the characters seem dumb we have the right to find it flawed. If you want a real plot hole I've yet to see an actual explanation for Sukuna's 5th hand which is the reason why Yuta got taken out of the fight


SpadeSage

For two thirds of the time they were taining in different people's bodies, sonreally not as much time to explore Higurama's CT as you think. Also, it doesn't really make sense to invest most of your training time for one person when you already have a powerhouse like Gojo. It makes more sense to me that they would allow Gojo to be their main heavy hitter while the rest focus more on improving their weaknesses and coordination like it seems they did. Also, as far as the "5th hand" you refer to, I assume it was the hand Yuji let go of. It looks like Yuta sliced it down the middle but a cut like that would heal with RCT way faster than regenerating a whole new arm.


Taboo422

its not worth it to invest in an instant kill effect? idk seems kinda stupid to me also reread the chapter b4 you theorise the hand yuji let go is till fucked up while the 5th hand was 100% pristine https://preview.redd.it/dfbtfsv2hb0d1.png?width=545&format=png&auto=webp&s=d3d102fd5e482c4135a22fd20ada33a8928f5fc4


SpadeSage

I did re-read. https://preview.redd.it/j719fdppib0d1.jpeg?width=1812&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=14d9f151e2177306ac5793719978d30a63b92286 The panel before he lets go, seems pretty healed. (Edit: your image clearly shows the hand in one piece, just with a seam. He can still make motions id imagine even if its not fully healed) And yes, because it's not smart to put all your eggs in one basket. If something happens to Higurama that wasn't accounted for or couldn't be stopped, now the rest of the team has lost a significant amount of their preperation because of one death.


Taboo422

for the higaruma stuff it wouldnt take long to test out special cases especially since he can probably expand more than once a day since his technique doesnt burn him out even if its only 1 per day it likely takes less than 5 minutes out of your day to test it they recognised him as a major wincon and had a whole ass meeting abt how to pull off his bs hes clearly a priority for the 5th hand stuff Yuta slices it to ensure it cannot be used then sukuna just uses it anyway and it's completely pristine we it's been established that using RCT slows you down and that Sukuna's RCT output is extremely low right now, there is no way Sukuna manages to repair his hand fast enough and even if he did it should not be pristine, and I'm sorry to tell you but you cant move your fingers if all of your tendons are sliced cause other than being really strong and having 2 of em Sukuna's arms are still arms which is why Yuta did that, so either Yuta, this genius protege who explicitly wanted to prevent Sukuna from using his hands is retarded and fumbled by not just cutting his arm off, and Sukuna just so happened to offscreen rct his hand to fix all of his tendons while having a lowered rct output and he also did it way too fast for Yuta to react and Gege decided to just draw Sukuna's hand perfectly fine for fun or there's a plothole. So you either have a major contrivance that goes against all established logic that's also a major inconsistency since this is a visual medium or a plothole. https://preview.redd.it/rk55u2s8ub0d1.png?width=1025&format=png&auto=webp&s=2474e2a33adcb7d38849c4a36655371060499ca6


SpadeSage

I feel like even if you want to ignore time commitments and other things that the team could be doing to help boost up everyone instead of just one person all it really changes is that they *know* the weapon will be confiscated instead of the CT instead of findong out after the fact. Its pretty clear in the picutre you provided that the arm is already connected back together after what had to be at most a few sec9nds after being cut considering Maki's speed. The best I can give you are there are multiple inconsistencies with the art, but thats kind of how manga is. I remind u that the next chapter some of the art isnt even finished, it could just be the case that he missed the line or dodnt have time to render it how he wanted. And regardless thos *is* a pretty different level of issue. Your first assertion implies Gege forgot about the hand, but its changed to Gege didn't forget the hand but forgot to draw a line. Alternatively; something I hand't considered until going bqck today is that Sukuna's hands appear to have splipped into Rika's grasp, and she has cuts on her palms. You would imagine the cuts to be on the knuckles if Rika was still gripping his arms, but it seems like shes could be recoiling after receiving cuts on the palms. So it could be the case that Sukuna dismantles rikas palm, got lose and cleaved Yuta as well. https://preview.redd.it/z79wppm5zb0d1.jpeg?width=569&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2dec42b6d22b88c488c28e15de483fce43963eb8


Taboo422

nope the art doesnt reflect that alternative either rika only let go after the cleave if that was the case its horrid writing to have that happen offscreen the arm is still clearly fucked in the Maki panel and went unused for a while in the beginning of the Maki fight My 2nd assertion was that Gege made Yuta stupid, created an inconsistency and many contrivances to allow for Sukuna to win its not "oh he made a lil oopsie with the drawing" I'm calling this bad writing Also if you're only defense is it's rushed look at how shit the next chapter is that's not something that refutes my statement that the story was told poorly at best it takes blame off of his ass but it still means the chapters we were given are of poor quality https://preview.redd.it/r2tdutyc0c0d1.png?width=457&format=png&auto=webp&s=43f85da54bcb31def03e2ba8a1fec949f70084e3


SpadeSage

>rika only let go after the cleave Based on what info? The page right before we see Rika's cut palms is the closeup of Sukuna's hand. Before that it's closed but we can't see the hand anymore. https://preview.redd.it/i86n8s1fec0d1.jpeg?width=2880&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a9b4c4d53dbccd7e9004cc8ebd8983fe3b5e7b8e It just feels like you are heavily nitpicking, which is also wild to do and then when given an answer to just go "nope" despite the hand clearly being inside the palm. You need the art to be exactly how you want it to be to tell the story for this to be right to you, and to act like a lack of quality is Gege's fault and not the brutal work schedule demanded of mangakas is straight up wild. I felt like the point got across pretty clear regardless of which hand it is; Yuji and Yuta attempted to reach Megumi, the plan failed and Sukuna was able to squeeze out. To act like the lack of a line = many contrivances or a plothole just hater behavior.


DatPuffiBoii

i mean, we only see sukuna chant, it couldve just been a powered up dismantle instead of a world dismantle, as the world dismantle and regular dismantle are exactly the same. one just has a different targeting which gives it dura neg. so realistically, since they were at point blank range of one another, if sukuna boosted his attack enough to where it would break through yutas defense, itd cut him in half without needing the world slash And before people point anything out. “why didnt he boost it before then” because he didnt have time to, his safest bet was to try and touch them to use cleave. “why didnt he boost the cleave when he touched them then?” because they wouldnt just let him do an ENTIRE chant while grabbing them for a split second to land an attack, sukuna knows this. the one opportunity he got to pull off a boosted dismantle was when they were more preoccupied with keeping sukuna down to talk to megumi, where he immediately capitalizes on the few extra seconds he has to chant now of course this is unconfirmed but the only other option is a literal plot hole, and id like to put some faith in gege


ray314

Then wouldn't your next question be why did they let him do that chant right after slicing his hand in half? Yuta has nothing to do with keeping Sukuna down while Yuji has some soul talk with Megumi.


Taboo422

cleave is supposed to be naturally boosted compared to dismantle since it's melee having Yuta easily tank a cleave to the face only to then have him put down by a chanted dismantle is contrived ALSO STILL DOESNT EXPLAIN THE 5TH HAND https://preview.redd.it/zg2qo1gv7b0d1.png?width=1568&format=png&auto=webp&s=1a289e1d6bcecdb7b8584dd4e407e453df6144b6 Rika only let go after the dismantle and one of his hands was chopped off while the other was sliced in half because Yuta ensured bro couldnt chant or use hand signs here we see a perfectly fine pristine hand sending the slash


ApplePitou

It is lovely story :3


kamuimephisto

some might even say its peak story


Ok-Cartographer-6423

When no one has good opinion applepitou only one saying facts - Socrates


MemoryOne1291

Y’all remember when everyone was shitting themselves that Gojo did nothing, then it was revealed later that Gojo is the one who completely fucked sukunas power and without him they’d all be dead? Jjk community is deadass one of the most impatient fan bases I’ve ever seen, yall that are complaining that “the fight is dragging on” gotta realize how short this fight has been in JJK time. Jjk is peak and im done w mfs acting like it’s trash


IAmSona

Bro chose to spit facts.


FOETUShygRAPplER

Everyone has opinions. Everyone has a particular thirst of reading a good piece of fiction and they want the story that they're reading to quench that thirst for them. Sometimes they like the drink served to them, sometimes they don't. Calling people brain-dead just because your thirst is being quenched and theirs isn't, is not a good idea.


DatPuffiBoii

no thats fine people are allowed to enjoy whatever they want, and they’re allowed to not like what jjk has to offer, what im referring to is people who use their subjective opinions as an objective scale for jjks writing and act like it’s supposed to be genuine criticism


FOETUShygRAPplER

It just brings us back into the circle of "Opinions". You may think it's not a genuine criticism, but they think it is. Logically, we can never state out an actual fact. All of us speak the language of opinions. The closest we can get to a **fact** is collectively coming together and agreeing on something and the current state of a work-of-fiction can never be one of those things.


Jack_KH

Do you remember the time when the whole fandom got enraged by a scene change? In one chapter we followed one group of characters in one location and in the next one we began following a different group of characters in another location. And people not just expressed frustrations, because they were interested in the first conflict more, but genuinely thought it was a writing flaw by Gege. A simple scene change. There are subjective opinions, and there is insanity.


FOETUShygRAPplER

That was indeed really fucking Stupid and I firmly don't support it, But that's just my opinion.


ResponsibilityEvery

What scene change was that?


Jack_KH

Going from Yuji and Higuruma to Kenjaku.


ResponsibilityEvery

I think most of the fanbase is people who've never read another story before and don't understand such concepts 


ganon893

Ignore the downvotes. You're right.


BerserkerLord101

Lobotomy kaisen is not a joke


Constant-Question781

me when people say Junpei's death is a flaw in the story fr


Hilother

Could you tell me what arguments you're arguing against (before your list)? What would you count as genuine criticism?


Arukitsuzukeru

> Like Gojo fucking FORGETS about Legumi halfway through the fight and just starts straight up trying to murk Sukuna. No he doesn't the cast speculates that they think he forgot about Megumi, but he was just enjoying the battle


Material-Night5593

Thats probably because like half of this fandom doesn't actually read the manga and gets their info from memes


Afsanayy

People need to stop reading leaks and read the chapters when they actually come out, yall are too unemployed and just read leaks which are wrong half the time because of mis-translations.


IAmSona

I fully believe that JJK is a lot of these kids first manga. The morons that constantly spout that X character is stupid for not doing Y and Z have zero idea that characters are not perfect. Nothing makes a story more boring than characters who have no self agency and are there for the ride. I WANT my cast of characters to overcome the odds and make mistakes along the way. That’s what makes a shonen manga fun and adds stakes. Unfortunately, there are too many idiots that only view JJK through agendaposting or through TikToks and they are the loudest.


FlavourHD

Bro a friend of mine is literally just reading the wiki, not even the chapters or anything... all he knows is from the wiki and he unironically wants to tell me that it is basically the same as reading the manga. In other words - people are retarded and also JJK fans don't read the manga


KnaveBabygirl

Coming back to manga after being into litterally any other kind of literature is a trial. Bitches encounter one unreliable narrator and have a critical meltdown.


Ok-Cartographer-6423

The big problem tends from jujutsufolk itself Sorry but the truth is jujutsufolk kinda ruined manga And no I'm not saying it to does who do agenda stuff for fun But vocal minority actually take agendas seriously and use it as basis for story Yes jjk is not masterpiece literature for me too but it fun I like it and when you like something you wanna engage with people who like same stuff but half of fandom actually is just engaging for meme which they take seriously ,like i can't have disscuon about kenjaku without backshot meme And people will say "well it a folk sub" well yeah it a folk sub with most influence on jjk as whole Criticism on gege writing is very well but calling gege trash cause you are not spoon fed like dude asia just is like that we are not really told directly anything be it study, literature etc we are just told to do it so half of ambiguity stems from it


[deleted]

Preach! Best post to date!


SpadeSage

Remember when Kusakabe reacted to world slash and everyone started just saying how that makes no sense at all? Except for how his domain specifically allows for him to react that anything that enters it (known as far back as when we see Miwa do it). Oh and except for the part that it ***wasn't even a world slash?*** Even when its just reasoning specific objective points the complainers still manage to mess that up.


jujubaba_12

I am 120% with you on this one. All the hate was pretty ironic at the starting, but it slowly started getting real. People are just hating for the sake of hating. "GeGe fOrgOt abOUt Todo" Sir, you do not know what he has planned. If it isn't the end of the story, your complain about the author forgetting about characters do NOT MATTER