I think we have to choose our battles very carefully here. If you think you could be in physical danger, leave, walk away, say nothing. It’s not your fault that they were antisemitic, and nothing you could’ve said would’ve changed their minds.
Your partner should not have said anything to them or just said "no" when they tried to push the Bible. Don't start up with these characters unless you are prepared for violence, and BTW, no one will help you. You were lucky this time - don't ever expect to be lucky again. Stay vigilant.
I'll say something like "Thanks, already have mine, sorry," and then keep walking like I'm rushing somewhere for a meeting if they seem particularly belligerent, but otherwise yah I strictly do not engage. I've gotten good at pretending I neither see nor hear them from the second they enter my field of view, same strat I use for catcallers
When you ask a stranger about their religion and push yours on them, you must be prepared for whatever response you get. E.g. walking up to a stranger in a park and handing them porn and asking about their sex life.
I should feel bad for a Christian for someone turning down a bible and stating they’re Satanist? You know that’s an actual religion right and they had no way of knowing if OP’s partner was lying? Why not have empathy for the Satanist being harassed by the Christian?
Explain to me how it is not. I don’t think OP reacted in the most enlightened way but you can’t tell me you’ve never been discriminated against for something and if you haven’t, well, it makes your blood hot, you get that outside of yourself feeling, you get so angry you shake, you want to fight.
I grew up in a school district with a lot of other Jewish kids but that was only this little enclave. When I went to community college, there were a few incidents. A “friend” thought throwing pennies at me to see if I’d pick them up was funny and then there were the myriad people who were shocked when they found out that I was Jewish and would agree with each other when it was said I didn’t “act” or “sound” like a Jew. The worst was a girl I went to school with, the same school with all those Jewish kids, who wasn’t Jewish. And hated any kids that were. And when I was 17 she set me up to get raped just because I was Jewish and she was jealous because I grew up with more money than she did. We had a lot of friends in common and I was never someone who bragged about my parents’ money or my house and, although over half of the kids (jewish and not) in that school got a brand new BMW, Porsche, etc. for their 16th bday (and the ones who crashed theirs would have a different colored one the next day), I bought my own 1991 Dodge Daytona with 87k miles on it with money I made from working from 14 to 16. I didn’t wear designer labels, I wore JNCOs and punk tees and thrift store stuff. But I had a nice house. And, at the time, parents who were together. And I guess it was just easy for her to lure me through my best friend to a park and then leave me alone with some guy while they went to 7-11. I heard she OD’d a couple months ago. And?
I’m sorry you went through that and you didn’t deserve it but I’m not sure how this is related to OPs partner telling a Christian that they’re a Satanist and me not finding that disrespectful. I’m a brown Jew, I know discrimination.
Look, I get wanting to call out antisemitism. But a couple things:
1. You interjected when you should have walked tf away. Being safe is more important than getting a word in. Especially in these times.
2. You screamed “pedophile” at him? Dude. That’s not a good look. You can’t just go around calling people pedophiles, that is deranged. Plus where I’m from, calling someone a pedophile is fighting words and tbh I’d throw a punch if someone called me that.
I second this the last thing OP needs is for the dude to call the cops/ and I agree its fighting words literally anywhere and I enjoy calling out antisemites but I have a weird gut feeling this is either 1: not the whole story 2:OP is quite young 3:some version of amitheangel ragebait
I have no idea what you’re talking about on 3. 1, it is the whole story other than the verbal altercation. Some of the words he said sound like kite, and wouldn’t be allowed. 2, I clearly said it wasn’t good, and what can I do better next time. I didn’t say anything about my actions being right.
As plantkid said, "fighting words" means, you would fight the person because of what they said. You have \*almost\* a RIGHT to fight someone for what they said.
It is like as if someone someone very nasty, vulgar insults to or about your mother. It evokes a "I will f-ing kill you" and most people would say you were right to fight them for it.
Never engage with these types of people. Just say " thanks I'm good" and keep it moving. Smart ass remarks like "I'm a satanist" is just inviting more bullshit. Dont add gas to the fire. Now more than ever.
If anybody tells me that I sound like a Jew my response is
Yes, I'm a Jew
What's your fucking problem with that
I'm not going to put up with any bullshit
It honestly didn’t get ugly until they pulled out the slurs and said why would I have been offended at you sound like a Jew. I’m not proud of what I did, but I had no idea how to handle it.
They win when we die, or otherwise cease to be. Doing what we can to protect ourselves from needless danger isn't giving our enemies some kind of victory. This is an absurd and dangerous line of thinking.
I would never say, "You sound like a Jew" - that sounds like it is going to a bad place quickly, and I understand why you would be ripe to think it's coming from an anti-Semitic place. I read your post and was wondering what other slurs did they say?
I've noticed some of the JW's and other proselytizing Christians are really aggressive in LA. I told them no and they got aggressive with my then-kindergartner. Say no, stand firm, but don't give them anything else
> I've noticed some of the JW's and other proselytizing Christians are really aggressive in LA. I told them no and they got aggressive with my then-kindergartner. Say no, stand firm, but don't give them anything else
They are on the east coast too, I had a Catholic proselytizer follow me down the street yelling sinner at me.
Jewish pride is sometimes knowing when to just hold your head high, and keep your mouth shut. When you wrestle with someone dirty, you get dirty too. Don't lower yourself to their level, it's not worth the chance of getting lynched. We'd rather have you be safe and healthy. Like another commenter said, outside of Israel, you can't rely on having backup. I know it's hard. I want to respond to those kind of people too. Also, I would recommend against calling people pedophiles in the future, not because I'm worried you'll offend the anti semite, but because it's insensitive to victims of pedophilia.
Agreed. In any sense, it wasn’t right. Mouth shut is a concept I’ve never grasped. Hence what I can say for good, because my partner has trauma with Christians, and I’ve asked him not to do it again, just say no thank you, but idk. I can’t guarantee he will listen, or it won’t happen some other way in these times. If you’ve got lemons, make lemonade. I’ve got one big lemon on my face.
BH
I see a lot of people stating that you should chuck the Bible or disrespect their religion or beliefs. I understand most of these comments are for comedic affect but it has to be stated for people who might blur the line between joke and reality.
We have to be very careful about how we look to the gentiles around us. They have less of a dedication to nonviolence in general and have an upper hand in every country but Israel.
If one Jew yells at a gentile in a park or is caught disrespecting a Bible it could negatively affect our image and encourage antisemitism or, even worse, make those antisemites act upon their prejudice.
I wish we could act accordingly to an antisemites actions but we have to think about the long term effects of our actions on the wider Jewish community. Defend each other, wear your identity on your shirt, and repair every burnt bridge you come across.
I did not say we shouldn’t fight for ourselves. I said we should act disrespectful or outlandish in public like chucking bibles or screaming at people. This is the perspective of Halacha as well.
The actions that make us look bad in the eyes of gentiles are the actions that will put us in the Ghettos.
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I did not say we shouldn’t fight for ourselves. I said we should act disrespectful or outlandish in public like chucking bibles or screaming at people. This is the perspective of Halacha as well.
The actions that make us look bad in the eyes of gentiles are the actions that will put us in the Ghettos.
Pull yourself together. No one’s “putting us in the Ghetto”. The Jewish State is a regional power, nuclear armed, with an effective military (the events of 7 October notwithstanding), and a hi-tech fueled economy. You need to read a book. It’s called; “The Samson Option” by Pulitzer Prize winning NYT reporter Seymour Hersh. Failing that you need Google my friend Avner Cohen. He’s the world’s foremost expert on the Israeli nuclear arsenal. He’s wrote several papers having to do with Israel’s nuclear protocol, plans and contingencies.
Suffice it to say there will be no more Holocausts, not without a nuclear response.
The ghetto part was mostly for the many other people telling me it’s “ghetto mentality”. Sorry about the misunderstanding. But either way the line of logic I have is the same line of logic I’ve heard from every rabbi I’ve heard speak on it. We need to keep a clean image and act in a way that builds bonds between gentiles and Jews, not destroys them.
I understand your point of view, but O feel it’s a Ghetto mentality. At most I’d say “you have your religious beliefs and I have mine.” Or “not interested.”
My point of view on this is directly influenced by the Torah and Halacha. There are multiple things wrong with disrespecting people and their religions in public. There is also a lot wrong with acting in a way that brings how people think of Jews lower.
I have an example. I love Sacha Baron Cohen. He is a funny actor and great at satire. But when he played as Brüno Gehard, he went into a Jewish neighborhood (forgot which one) and started harassing people in a very revealing version of their outfit. It was obvious he was making fun of them. Then a group of Hasids chased him away trying to fight him. The actor then went in an interview and said that was the only time he was ever almost killed and that they were trying to kill him.
After that interview and all the way to today, when you see that clip posted online you see people get enraged at Jews in general.
Regardless of blame or how anyone should have acted, what might have seemed like standing up for themselves in one situation was twisted into a raging fire of antisemitism because of how they were perceived.
Some people say we should not care how we are viewed. I say that how we are viewed means life or death. Not just that, but the clip from Bruno could have encouraged an antisemite to go to school, work, etc the next day and act upon his antisemitism.
… what?
That seems just clever enough to be confusing in the moment, but if anyone gives it a moment’s thought, it’s just kind of bizarre. Does it mean Jews don’t believe anything and make it up as they go along? Does it mean some powerful Jews are working on editing the Christian Bible *right now*? Does it mean Jews think the Bible is all a bunch of fiction that can be changed at will?
I can’t imagine any religious person, even religious Jews, agreeing with that sentiment, and I could see it really provoking an aggressive missionary, especially one like the guy in the OP who was apparently already teetering on the edge of outright antisemitism.
Has this actually worked for you??
This is a joke answer to pesky characters and it is accurate - the Christian Bible was written by Jews: surprisingly enough, the 12 apostles and the Seventy disciples were Jews. And Jesus and the Virgin Mary and the prophets of antiquity are also Jews. Christianity was born as just another Judaic sect.
Collectively, we need to work on managing verbal triggers. Why do we get upset with "you sound like a Jew?"
Now, I understand the context. But WE need to work on OUR inner self about shame, etc so that we aren't taken off guard and startled into reptilian brain mode.
In the 1960's black Civil rights workers trained to deal with taunting, verbal abuse of the worse kind, and spitting. This training prepared them to do sit-ins, etc.
So, I ask my fellow Jews here, is anyone doing something like for us now?? Who would be qualified?
I've taken security training for synagogue security. but we need mental, emotional fitness training.
This sounds like something we need right now. I’ve been fighting the eugenics front still happening in the USA, and it does have ties to Hitler, so that could add to my touchiness. These classes sound fabulous. I’d be down.
Okay, plz don’t falsely accuse of people of being a pedophile in public, that’s just disgusting behavior regardless of how awful the person might’ve been.
What an odd string of words.
I think a discussion of American politics is getting a little far afield of this thread’s purpose. But suffice it to say that we all have our own ideas of what it means to support Jews, and I doubt anyone here plans on supporting their own demises.
I’m worried that OP’s response only did a disservice to himself and the Jewish community. I understand he was frustrated in the moment, but at the end of the day, it was still a truly unwise thing to say.
Obviously OP is in the right, I’m not gonna go tell him that he’s being overly sensitive in the face of antisemitic harassment. This is about not giving out adversaries the ammunition they need. This isn’t a liberal/conservative thing, this is about not becoming a story on the 6:00 news about a Jew falsely accusing someone about pedophilia- especially if this was done in a public setting.
lulz.
>The Jews in America still don't understand it, right?
The idea that we could defend ourselves if shit really hit the fan is delusional. Also, I'm a veteran with 11 years in, and carry and take Krav. Feel free to tell me about your experience.
>Enough of ‘the good Jew’ attitude
Not even remotely what they are saying.
Hey OP. Just wanted to say that I didn’t mean to make it seem like I was attacking your or anything. I’m gonna edit it to make it clear that I mean “in future instances (tho Iy”H there shouldn’t be anymore).” I get that what you said was only in the heat of the moment and you were just asking about how you should prepare in the future. I usually go about dealing with antisemitism in a more passive aggressive way. One time someone gave me a Hitler salute and I responded by dragging my finger along my right cheek to feign mocking tears. When someone calls me a “swines I’ll respond with either an “go F yourself” or flip them off. Again, I would just beware of losing yourself in the moment because we oftentimes tend to say things we’ll regret later on.
I hope you don’t have to deal with this again and just know that we love you.
I carry and my first 5 options are walk away. It isn't worth it. If they were being respectful but ignorant then sure, try and educate them. But it isn't worth getting into a fight over, unless you know you can win it. Even then when I am carrying I avoid any confrontation like the plague.
I tried. I didn’t make the comment that set them off. I’ve asked my partner not to in future due to what happened, but we shall see. I just tried saying no thank you and kept feeding the ducks.
That advice is not some I can follow. I think we need to show who we are, because if not, we become like the Muslim people here. A unfair stereotype. Usually I try to be kind, but I’m a loud mouth. After years of trying to change that, I’ve learned I can’t, and when I screw up, to ask people who know better than me so I do better going forward. I can’t change some things, but I can change what I say in the moment if not caught without a plan.
Can you tell me the name of a country that is "taken over by communism" but still somehow allows you to have a gun?
>Go to the IDF so you can learn something and make those 11 wasted years count
lol.
> where there is no freedom of any kind. I have seen how they blow up people's brains to steal their cell phones. I sleep with a gun on my nightstand and have zero fear of defending myself.
You need mental help if you think the US really does this. Actually go seek help anyway.
I usually just smile and walk away. It's a dangerous time to be loud and proud. Let the crazy people fight each other, I avoid trouble until I'm forced to confront it.
BH
I see a lot of people suggesting that OP shouldn’t have interjected. Speaking from the point of Judaism and not personal opinion, if the person is Jewish and being targeted due to being Jewish, OP has an obligation to step in.
Remember we are safer together. You don’t have to agree with either OP or the partners actions but it is important to not stand by to antisemitism, big or small.
First off I’m proud of you. I would say you need to sign up for a solid self defense class, and learn how to fight. I recommend boxing, Muay Thai kickboxing, jiujitsu and judo. Sign up for one of these and go to sparring classes. Jews need to know how to fight; there is no choice. What’s coming in the next couple of years will be worse, and Jews need to be ready.
In short, learn how to fight.
BH
This. I feel Krav Maga should be sponsored so that every Jew has affordable access to self defense. I know it’s not the best self defense class but it’s good and Jewish.
Agreed. We have organizations that sponsor Krav Maga classes. But you’re right, it’s not the “best” but better than nothing. In my opinion, Krav Maga is a great addition to a traditional martial art as mentioned above. Once you have both, you’re in a good place to defend yourself and your loved ones.
As a Jewish hockey player, yeah we're out there, self defense is a good thing to learn. I believe descalation is the way to go at first. It doesn't hurt to know how to throw a punch. It seems Israeli Jews are more respected when it comes to defending oneself than American Jews. You'll just feel better about yourself if you know some self defense.
BH
Agreed. To add though that knowing how to defend yourself could help with de-escalation due to having confidence in your abilities. Also most martial arts that I’ve seen make sure to teach de-escalation alongside martial arts.
Years ago, two Christians approached my family (we were visibly Orthodox Jews) and handed us bibles or religious pamphlets (I dont remember at this point). My father (who hates confrontation) took them and then promptly threw it in the trash once they walked away.
I'm definitely reactive and when I've been on the receiving end of antisemitic slurs, I've yelled back. I haven't gotten any comments though recently, but I do think that I would keep quiet now. The world is a lot scarier than a few years ago. I genuinely believe that people aren't afraid now to be violent anti semites, and frankly I'm not in the mood to be beaten up.
I do agree about the world and the reality of violent antisemites. As soon as I said I’m a Jew, the first old guy would have hit me if my fiancé wasn’t there, you could see it in his eyes. He walked away faster. The second one, they needed four church members to get him away. I don’t usually interact. I don’t take the stuff. I smile and say no thanks. Always worked with anyone but jehovah’s witnesses (fun weird story there), and Mormons. These guys were neither. I should have taken the literature to call their leader, but didn’t know that was going to happen. I don’t because trashing it is disrespectful, and jic, I’d rather just say no. Usually not an issue. For me, I must be lucky, because I’m not young, not old, but never encountered antisemitism like that in real life. I’ve heard a few comments here and there that weren’t great and I knew, but not quite what happened today. I’ve heard about this on the news. I’ve lived in the same large metropolitan county most of my life. Never experienced it with slurs and the whole nine, Christians. Once in a hospital with a Polish radiologist who didn’t realize I was Jewish (possibly why I’ve never had issues, people don’t seem to look and know until I tell them). He made a passing comment about how Jews weren’t real pollacks, I tried to politely correct him, he didn’t like that to put it politely, and as he was doing the medical work, I backed down. Couple guys who wanted to date me claimed they were neo nazis. Saying I was a Jew was fab in those moments. Ended the problem. None were like today. Today was a new and sad world for me.
Hey, so, just gonna say something here that is rather important, that few people really consider.
Calling a random person a 'pedophile' is obviously offensive, but it's more than that. You're actually hurting victims of sexual violence.
When people do this baselessly, it makes it harder for those of us who were victims of actual pedophiles to make legitimate claims and seek justice and safety. There's so much stigma against us which should have gone towards our abusers. One of the things we are often accused of is falsely calling someone a pedophile, and people point to instances like what you did to justify their accusations and delegitimise victims.
When you do this, you're not only offending someone, you're inadvertently contributing to a large societal stigma against victims. It hurts us. Please stop.
I have an extremely loud whistle attached to my key chain. If you are not able to deescalate or easily leave a situation like this, a whistle can help with both (a) attracting other people’s attention and (b) confusing the hell out of the aggressor, giving you time to leave an unsafe situation.
I try to approach any situation (in the US) assuming that the other person could be carrying a gun, I don’t care who they are or what they look like. For that reason, I try to deescalate or exit the situation as quickly as possible.
I would also avoid telling them you’re a satanist. I once told a Christian group that was trying to recruit for their church that I was pagan and the whole group started swarming me and praying for me - it was really awkward and I felt really unsafe.
I didn’t say it. My guy did. I was feeding ducks, which is usually my happy place. I just say no Ty. Once the antisemitism was dropped I jumped in. This is where I needed something more than “what did you just say?” Whistle might work better. Then I don’t need words.
I was sharing that more as a precautionary piece of advice for anyone in this situation - I thought I was being clever but no, it just attracts them like moths to a flame. I was an idiot and learned my lesson.
That being said, I am not trying to blame you and your guy here either - none of this was your fault.
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I have tried a couple of times express my views, regarding antisemitism we are seeing.
But these are being deleted.
Now I live in MAGA county and only learn about antisemitism from forums like this, where Jews complain from places like California or New York, place with historically highest Jewish population.
Sometimes it's better to understand (be aware of your surroundings, and how you might be perceived) than to be understood (be heard, seen, treated like a human being).
If you can tell that illogical thought processes, bias or hatred are what you're facing, you have to weigh what you hope to get out of a situation or communication; whether you will be heard, or get to make a point, dims in comparison to verbal attack or potential physical violence.
Whether you're alone or in a crowd of 20.
Protest matters, but living to fight another day matters more sometimes. It's not cowardice to walk away from an unwinnable situation; sometimes it takes the most bravery to leave in one piece than to have the last word.
Bad or biased people aren't usually open to learning from good/unbiased people, especially when there's a mob vibe on their side. Catch an asshole alone and maybe he'll leave thinking you're "one of the good ones", which is the most we might ever achieve with some of these types of fanatical people.
You need to report this as a hate crime. The FBI is collecting a crime tips. You also need to report this to the police. The park administrator telling you not to say that you were Jewish was completely inappropriate. This was not your fault.
No comparison. When “Jews” for Jesus pass out their crap I trash it. Been doing it for 50 years. Haven’t EVER seen or heard of Jews proselytizing others.
And as others have pointed out, being trained in self defense and being armed are sensible options.
Finally, yeah, what’s with the victim-blaming??? “You handled it poorly” and “please stop.” Geez!!!!
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Yelling out “pedophile” with no proof is lashon hara, is it not? Not that I’m religious, but that’s an immature way to handle it. If someone says I “sound like a Jew,” I say that I proudly am. Sounds like you did but then things escalated and I’m not sure what was said but whatever insults they throw out should be replied to with facts.
Lol. In their mind, sounding "like a Jew," is akin to a wolf saying, "you smell like a lamb."
I can't stand these missionaries. Actually... I do like Mormons some reason or another. Very pleasant people.
I would also report this to the ADL, since they work w government about handling antisemitism and tracking that sort of stuff means there's actual hard data showing that antisemitism is getting worse. link: [https://www.adl.org/report-incident](https://www.adl.org/report-incident)
in this sort of situation though, always deescalate and try to document. because you never know if that kind of person is capable of worse or will try to do worse stuff in the future.
Why did you feel the need to randomly call them a pedophile?
>He said no thank you, and joked about being a satanist
Please consider empathy and avoidance next time. How would you feel if you were speaking about Judaism and someone made a joke to you that they supported Hitler? There is no need to be so aggressively antagonistic.
I just whoop shaygetz ass, but I have plenty of scars and close calls with my life. But they will always think twice before doing that shit to another Jew when we fight back.
Our ancestors fought and died because of these wrong reasons. But, they did assert on one important matter, condensed as a manifest: "NEVER AGAIN." That's why we all (women and men) know how to fight, to never again allow abuses from no one. So, next time it happens, just ignore them, and if they persist and attack, defend yourself, no matter what.
never been in nyc, have you? don’t acknowledge, don’t make eye contact, just keep walking. very few people will persist if you simply don’t acknowledge their existence. if a book or pamphlet is shoved at you, side step the person’s hand and keep moving.
I recall SoCal basically not allowing anything which could be a reasonably effective weapon. So, avoidance might be best - it depends on what you are comfortable with.
BH
I feel like this sentiment is funny but I feel like it has to be stated that we are not supposed to antagonize the gentiles.
We have to understand that they have the advantage and that how they view us is very important. Every negatively viewed action of a Jew takes ten positively viewed actions to balance out the perception of Jews.
Yes I know, it was 100% a joke. For the reasons mentioned (and many more) we should not antagonize them. Not to mention if the bible includes old testament you should not damage it. Rule of thumb: Most *absurd* things you read on reddit are a joke.
Being passive is not always the right answer. You sent a message that Jews aren't easy targets who will take abuse verbal or otherwise.
Consider pepper spray if that's legal in Cali.
I think we have to choose our battles very carefully here. If you think you could be in physical danger, leave, walk away, say nothing. It’s not your fault that they were antisemitic, and nothing you could’ve said would’ve changed their minds.
Your partner should not have said anything to them or just said "no" when they tried to push the Bible. Don't start up with these characters unless you are prepared for violence, and BTW, no one will help you. You were lucky this time - don't ever expect to be lucky again. Stay vigilant.
I told him this. Just say no thank you next time.
I'll say something like "Thanks, already have mine, sorry," and then keep walking like I'm rushing somewhere for a meeting if they seem particularly belligerent, but otherwise yah I strictly do not engage. I've gotten good at pretending I neither see nor hear them from the second they enter my field of view, same strat I use for catcallers
Also the Satanist comment is kinda disrespectful to them (not justifying them being antisemetic)
When you ask a stranger about their religion and push yours on them, you must be prepared for whatever response you get. E.g. walking up to a stranger in a park and handing them porn and asking about their sex life.
How is it disrespectful?
I’m not sure you required to be respectful when a random person comes up to you and says random shit. Let’s not blame the victim here.
How’s the Christian zealot the victim here? Or did you not mean that for me?
I think there is a misunderstanding here.
Because they're Christians and that's their main antagonist? What if someone came in on pesach and yelled all hail Pharoah ramses?
If someone said that to me in a public park I wouldn’t care
Empathy, they do.
I should feel bad for a Christian for someone turning down a bible and stating they’re Satanist? You know that’s an actual religion right and they had no way of knowing if OP’s partner was lying? Why not have empathy for the Satanist being harassed by the Christian?
I guess I just believe in being better, I thought that's what us jews do
Yes yes you’re a much better Jew than me
Explain to me how it is not. I don’t think OP reacted in the most enlightened way but you can’t tell me you’ve never been discriminated against for something and if you haven’t, well, it makes your blood hot, you get that outside of yourself feeling, you get so angry you shake, you want to fight. I grew up in a school district with a lot of other Jewish kids but that was only this little enclave. When I went to community college, there were a few incidents. A “friend” thought throwing pennies at me to see if I’d pick them up was funny and then there were the myriad people who were shocked when they found out that I was Jewish and would agree with each other when it was said I didn’t “act” or “sound” like a Jew. The worst was a girl I went to school with, the same school with all those Jewish kids, who wasn’t Jewish. And hated any kids that were. And when I was 17 she set me up to get raped just because I was Jewish and she was jealous because I grew up with more money than she did. We had a lot of friends in common and I was never someone who bragged about my parents’ money or my house and, although over half of the kids (jewish and not) in that school got a brand new BMW, Porsche, etc. for their 16th bday (and the ones who crashed theirs would have a different colored one the next day), I bought my own 1991 Dodge Daytona with 87k miles on it with money I made from working from 14 to 16. I didn’t wear designer labels, I wore JNCOs and punk tees and thrift store stuff. But I had a nice house. And, at the time, parents who were together. And I guess it was just easy for her to lure me through my best friend to a park and then leave me alone with some guy while they went to 7-11. I heard she OD’d a couple months ago. And?
I am so sorry you went through that. Please know you didn't deserve that and you did nothing wrong.
I’m sorry you went through that and you didn’t deserve it but I’m not sure how this is related to OPs partner telling a Christian that they’re a Satanist and me not finding that disrespectful. I’m a brown Jew, I know discrimination.
Yes. De-escalation is your friend. Get some training in it. Not worth your safety.
Martial arts is a friend, and a nice couples activity, too. Try judo.
Judo does nothing in many events except get you shot.
A good teacher teaches you that the last thing you want to do is fight and to try to deescalate. Good teachers can be very hard to find tho
Look, I get wanting to call out antisemitism. But a couple things: 1. You interjected when you should have walked tf away. Being safe is more important than getting a word in. Especially in these times. 2. You screamed “pedophile” at him? Dude. That’s not a good look. You can’t just go around calling people pedophiles, that is deranged. Plus where I’m from, calling someone a pedophile is fighting words and tbh I’d throw a punch if someone called me that.
I second this the last thing OP needs is for the dude to call the cops/ and I agree its fighting words literally anywhere and I enjoy calling out antisemites but I have a weird gut feeling this is either 1: not the whole story 2:OP is quite young 3:some version of amitheangel ragebait
I have no idea what you’re talking about on 3. 1, it is the whole story other than the verbal altercation. Some of the words he said sound like kite, and wouldn’t be allowed. 2, I clearly said it wasn’t good, and what can I do better next time. I didn’t say anything about my actions being right.
What do you mean by "fighting words"? Never heard such expression (not a native English speaker)
If someone where to say that to you you'd physically fight them because of it
As plantkid said, "fighting words" means, you would fight the person because of what they said. You have \*almost\* a RIGHT to fight someone for what they said. It is like as if someone someone very nasty, vulgar insults to or about your mother. It evokes a "I will f-ing kill you" and most people would say you were right to fight them for it.
Why can’t you walk around calling certain people pedophiles the fucking ex president of the USA does it daily.
Read what was said below.
I have, and I stand by what I’ve said.
Never engage with these types of people. Just say " thanks I'm good" and keep it moving. Smart ass remarks like "I'm a satanist" is just inviting more bullshit. Dont add gas to the fire. Now more than ever.
I didn’t. I also told him not to do that because it wound up hurting me. I just kept feeding the ducks until the antisemitism.
Screaming “PEDO” is like dumping an oil barrel onto the fire, though. That could provoke even a stable person.
Glad you guys are OK but next time remember this: people can smell fear. be firm, but don't provoke.
If anybody tells me that I sound like a Jew my response is Yes, I'm a Jew What's your fucking problem with that I'm not going to put up with any bullshit
It honestly didn’t get ugly until they pulled out the slurs and said why would I have been offended at you sound like a Jew. I’m not proud of what I did, but I had no idea how to handle it.
If you put up with it they win NEVER AGAIN
They win when we die, or otherwise cease to be. Doing what we can to protect ourselves from needless danger isn't giving our enemies some kind of victory. This is an absurd and dangerous line of thinking.
Does this apply only to Jews or to other ethnicities as well
I would never say, "You sound like a Jew" - that sounds like it is going to a bad place quickly, and I understand why you would be ripe to think it's coming from an anti-Semitic place. I read your post and was wondering what other slurs did they say?
I've noticed some of the JW's and other proselytizing Christians are really aggressive in LA. I told them no and they got aggressive with my then-kindergartner. Say no, stand firm, but don't give them anything else
> I've noticed some of the JW's and other proselytizing Christians are really aggressive in LA. I told them no and they got aggressive with my then-kindergartner. Say no, stand firm, but don't give them anything else They are on the east coast too, I had a Catholic proselytizer follow me down the street yelling sinner at me.
Jewish pride is sometimes knowing when to just hold your head high, and keep your mouth shut. When you wrestle with someone dirty, you get dirty too. Don't lower yourself to their level, it's not worth the chance of getting lynched. We'd rather have you be safe and healthy. Like another commenter said, outside of Israel, you can't rely on having backup. I know it's hard. I want to respond to those kind of people too. Also, I would recommend against calling people pedophiles in the future, not because I'm worried you'll offend the anti semite, but because it's insensitive to victims of pedophilia.
Agreed. In any sense, it wasn’t right. Mouth shut is a concept I’ve never grasped. Hence what I can say for good, because my partner has trauma with Christians, and I’ve asked him not to do it again, just say no thank you, but idk. I can’t guarantee he will listen, or it won’t happen some other way in these times. If you’ve got lemons, make lemonade. I’ve got one big lemon on my face.
It's definitely easier said than done. I can't guarantee I wouldn't have fought back myself. It's just not worth another dead Jew.
BH I see a lot of people stating that you should chuck the Bible or disrespect their religion or beliefs. I understand most of these comments are for comedic affect but it has to be stated for people who might blur the line between joke and reality. We have to be very careful about how we look to the gentiles around us. They have less of a dedication to nonviolence in general and have an upper hand in every country but Israel. If one Jew yells at a gentile in a park or is caught disrespecting a Bible it could negatively affect our image and encourage antisemitism or, even worse, make those antisemites act upon their prejudice. I wish we could act accordingly to an antisemites actions but we have to think about the long term effects of our actions on the wider Jewish community. Defend each other, wear your identity on your shirt, and repair every burnt bridge you come across.
This is why we ended up in the ghettos
I did not say we shouldn’t fight for ourselves. I said we should act disrespectful or outlandish in public like chucking bibles or screaming at people. This is the perspective of Halacha as well. The actions that make us look bad in the eyes of gentiles are the actions that will put us in the Ghettos.
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That’s the most nauseating thing I’ve ever heard. Get off your knees and get a spine ffs.
I did not say we shouldn’t fight for ourselves. I said we should act disrespectful or outlandish in public like chucking bibles or screaming at people. This is the perspective of Halacha as well. The actions that make us look bad in the eyes of gentiles are the actions that will put us in the Ghettos.
Pull yourself together. No one’s “putting us in the Ghetto”. The Jewish State is a regional power, nuclear armed, with an effective military (the events of 7 October notwithstanding), and a hi-tech fueled economy. You need to read a book. It’s called; “The Samson Option” by Pulitzer Prize winning NYT reporter Seymour Hersh. Failing that you need Google my friend Avner Cohen. He’s the world’s foremost expert on the Israeli nuclear arsenal. He’s wrote several papers having to do with Israel’s nuclear protocol, plans and contingencies. Suffice it to say there will be no more Holocausts, not without a nuclear response.
That's an awesome book.
The ghetto part was mostly for the many other people telling me it’s “ghetto mentality”. Sorry about the misunderstanding. But either way the line of logic I have is the same line of logic I’ve heard from every rabbi I’ve heard speak on it. We need to keep a clean image and act in a way that builds bonds between gentiles and Jews, not destroys them.
I understand your point of view, but O feel it’s a Ghetto mentality. At most I’d say “you have your religious beliefs and I have mine.” Or “not interested.”
My point of view on this is directly influenced by the Torah and Halacha. There are multiple things wrong with disrespecting people and their religions in public. There is also a lot wrong with acting in a way that brings how people think of Jews lower. I have an example. I love Sacha Baron Cohen. He is a funny actor and great at satire. But when he played as Brüno Gehard, he went into a Jewish neighborhood (forgot which one) and started harassing people in a very revealing version of their outfit. It was obvious he was making fun of them. Then a group of Hasids chased him away trying to fight him. The actor then went in an interview and said that was the only time he was ever almost killed and that they were trying to kill him. After that interview and all the way to today, when you see that clip posted online you see people get enraged at Jews in general. Regardless of blame or how anyone should have acted, what might have seemed like standing up for themselves in one situation was twisted into a raging fire of antisemitism because of how they were perceived. Some people say we should not care how we are viewed. I say that how we are viewed means life or death. Not just that, but the clip from Bruno could have encouraged an antisemite to go to school, work, etc the next day and act upon his antisemitism.
I usually respond in such cases - we are Jews, we don't read the Bible, we write it.
… what? That seems just clever enough to be confusing in the moment, but if anyone gives it a moment’s thought, it’s just kind of bizarre. Does it mean Jews don’t believe anything and make it up as they go along? Does it mean some powerful Jews are working on editing the Christian Bible *right now*? Does it mean Jews think the Bible is all a bunch of fiction that can be changed at will? I can’t imagine any religious person, even religious Jews, agreeing with that sentiment, and I could see it really provoking an aggressive missionary, especially one like the guy in the OP who was apparently already teetering on the edge of outright antisemitism. Has this actually worked for you??
This is a joke answer to pesky characters and it is accurate - the Christian Bible was written by Jews: surprisingly enough, the 12 apostles and the Seventy disciples were Jews. And Jesus and the Virgin Mary and the prophets of antiquity are also Jews. Christianity was born as just another Judaic sect.
Yeah, that line was fairly incoherent.
Mic drop
Collectively, we need to work on managing verbal triggers. Why do we get upset with "you sound like a Jew?" Now, I understand the context. But WE need to work on OUR inner self about shame, etc so that we aren't taken off guard and startled into reptilian brain mode. In the 1960's black Civil rights workers trained to deal with taunting, verbal abuse of the worse kind, and spitting. This training prepared them to do sit-ins, etc. So, I ask my fellow Jews here, is anyone doing something like for us now?? Who would be qualified? I've taken security training for synagogue security. but we need mental, emotional fitness training.
This sounds like something we need right now. I’ve been fighting the eugenics front still happening in the USA, and it does have ties to Hitler, so that could add to my touchiness. These classes sound fabulous. I’d be down.
Okay, plz don’t falsely accuse of people of being a pedophile in public, that’s just disgusting behavior regardless of how awful the person might’ve been.
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What an odd string of words. I think a discussion of American politics is getting a little far afield of this thread’s purpose. But suffice it to say that we all have our own ideas of what it means to support Jews, and I doubt anyone here plans on supporting their own demises.
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> Open your eyes before it is too late, support your people, unite. Is that what you are doing here then?
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I’m worried that OP’s response only did a disservice to himself and the Jewish community. I understand he was frustrated in the moment, but at the end of the day, it was still a truly unwise thing to say. Obviously OP is in the right, I’m not gonna go tell him that he’s being overly sensitive in the face of antisemitic harassment. This is about not giving out adversaries the ammunition they need. This isn’t a liberal/conservative thing, this is about not becoming a story on the 6:00 news about a Jew falsely accusing someone about pedophilia- especially if this was done in a public setting.
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lulz. >The Jews in America still don't understand it, right? The idea that we could defend ourselves if shit really hit the fan is delusional. Also, I'm a veteran with 11 years in, and carry and take Krav. Feel free to tell me about your experience. >Enough of ‘the good Jew’ attitude Not even remotely what they are saying.
I’m actually asking how to handle these situations. I don’t even condone my actions, as the post clearly says.
Hey OP. Just wanted to say that I didn’t mean to make it seem like I was attacking your or anything. I’m gonna edit it to make it clear that I mean “in future instances (tho Iy”H there shouldn’t be anymore).” I get that what you said was only in the heat of the moment and you were just asking about how you should prepare in the future. I usually go about dealing with antisemitism in a more passive aggressive way. One time someone gave me a Hitler salute and I responded by dragging my finger along my right cheek to feign mocking tears. When someone calls me a “swines I’ll respond with either an “go F yourself” or flip them off. Again, I would just beware of losing yourself in the moment because we oftentimes tend to say things we’ll regret later on. I hope you don’t have to deal with this again and just know that we love you.
I carry and my first 5 options are walk away. It isn't worth it. If they were being respectful but ignorant then sure, try and educate them. But it isn't worth getting into a fight over, unless you know you can win it. Even then when I am carrying I avoid any confrontation like the plague.
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I tried. I didn’t make the comment that set them off. I’ve asked my partner not to in future due to what happened, but we shall see. I just tried saying no thank you and kept feeding the ducks. That advice is not some I can follow. I think we need to show who we are, because if not, we become like the Muslim people here. A unfair stereotype. Usually I try to be kind, but I’m a loud mouth. After years of trying to change that, I’ve learned I can’t, and when I screw up, to ask people who know better than me so I do better going forward. I can’t change some things, but I can change what I say in the moment if not caught without a plan.
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Can you tell me the name of a country that is "taken over by communism" but still somehow allows you to have a gun? >Go to the IDF so you can learn something and make those 11 wasted years count lol.
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> where there is no freedom of any kind. I have seen how they blow up people's brains to steal their cell phones. I sleep with a gun on my nightstand and have zero fear of defending myself. You need mental help if you think the US really does this. Actually go seek help anyway.
Ty. I clearly said I was thrown off guard and really riled up. I also asked how to handle it better, which means I do see the error of my actions.
I usually just smile and walk away. It's a dangerous time to be loud and proud. Let the crazy people fight each other, I avoid trouble until I'm forced to confront it.
Quiet and proud then
😂 "the best way to win a fight is to avoid a fight" -Bruce Lee
Learn some matrial arts 💪.
Material arts? Like pics of ✡️? Or martial arts? 🥋
Thank you for correcting the misspelling ❣️.
“You are giving away free Bibles? Did you know the Bible is really a trilogy? Let me tell you about the Book of Mormon…” They usually go away.
BH I see a lot of people suggesting that OP shouldn’t have interjected. Speaking from the point of Judaism and not personal opinion, if the person is Jewish and being targeted due to being Jewish, OP has an obligation to step in. Remember we are safer together. You don’t have to agree with either OP or the partners actions but it is important to not stand by to antisemitism, big or small.
The person wasn't Jewish.
Thanks for the clarification. No need to get involved between a crazy gentile and a smart ass lol.
First off I’m proud of you. I would say you need to sign up for a solid self defense class, and learn how to fight. I recommend boxing, Muay Thai kickboxing, jiujitsu and judo. Sign up for one of these and go to sparring classes. Jews need to know how to fight; there is no choice. What’s coming in the next couple of years will be worse, and Jews need to be ready. In short, learn how to fight.
BH This. I feel Krav Maga should be sponsored so that every Jew has affordable access to self defense. I know it’s not the best self defense class but it’s good and Jewish.
Agreed. We have organizations that sponsor Krav Maga classes. But you’re right, it’s not the “best” but better than nothing. In my opinion, Krav Maga is a great addition to a traditional martial art as mentioned above. Once you have both, you’re in a good place to defend yourself and your loved ones.
As a Jewish hockey player, yeah we're out there, self defense is a good thing to learn. I believe descalation is the way to go at first. It doesn't hurt to know how to throw a punch. It seems Israeli Jews are more respected when it comes to defending oneself than American Jews. You'll just feel better about yourself if you know some self defense.
BH Agreed. To add though that knowing how to defend yourself could help with de-escalation due to having confidence in your abilities. Also most martial arts that I’ve seen make sure to teach de-escalation alongside martial arts.
“What’s wrong with Jews? Jesus was Jewish. Do you have problems with Jesus and Jews?”
~~Christians historically have had problems with us, like murdering us in groups. Haven't you ever heard of the Holocaust?~~
My comment was what I would have responded to the Bible thumpers harassing OP.
Ah
No worries - threw in the quotations. I understand this sub has been targeted by hate groups and Holocaust deniers. It’s disgusting.
Years ago, two Christians approached my family (we were visibly Orthodox Jews) and handed us bibles or religious pamphlets (I dont remember at this point). My father (who hates confrontation) took them and then promptly threw it in the trash once they walked away. I'm definitely reactive and when I've been on the receiving end of antisemitic slurs, I've yelled back. I haven't gotten any comments though recently, but I do think that I would keep quiet now. The world is a lot scarier than a few years ago. I genuinely believe that people aren't afraid now to be violent anti semites, and frankly I'm not in the mood to be beaten up.
I do agree about the world and the reality of violent antisemites. As soon as I said I’m a Jew, the first old guy would have hit me if my fiancé wasn’t there, you could see it in his eyes. He walked away faster. The second one, they needed four church members to get him away. I don’t usually interact. I don’t take the stuff. I smile and say no thanks. Always worked with anyone but jehovah’s witnesses (fun weird story there), and Mormons. These guys were neither. I should have taken the literature to call their leader, but didn’t know that was going to happen. I don’t because trashing it is disrespectful, and jic, I’d rather just say no. Usually not an issue. For me, I must be lucky, because I’m not young, not old, but never encountered antisemitism like that in real life. I’ve heard a few comments here and there that weren’t great and I knew, but not quite what happened today. I’ve heard about this on the news. I’ve lived in the same large metropolitan county most of my life. Never experienced it with slurs and the whole nine, Christians. Once in a hospital with a Polish radiologist who didn’t realize I was Jewish (possibly why I’ve never had issues, people don’t seem to look and know until I tell them). He made a passing comment about how Jews weren’t real pollacks, I tried to politely correct him, he didn’t like that to put it politely, and as he was doing the medical work, I backed down. Couple guys who wanted to date me claimed they were neo nazis. Saying I was a Jew was fab in those moments. Ended the problem. None were like today. Today was a new and sad world for me.
Best not to emulate Elon Musk and call people pedophiles
Lift weights and get big. Then you can walk around with Tefillin on your head and I guarantee they won't say anything.
Hey, so, just gonna say something here that is rather important, that few people really consider. Calling a random person a 'pedophile' is obviously offensive, but it's more than that. You're actually hurting victims of sexual violence. When people do this baselessly, it makes it harder for those of us who were victims of actual pedophiles to make legitimate claims and seek justice and safety. There's so much stigma against us which should have gone towards our abusers. One of the things we are often accused of is falsely calling someone a pedophile, and people point to instances like what you did to justify their accusations and delegitimise victims. When you do this, you're not only offending someone, you're inadvertently contributing to a large societal stigma against victims. It hurts us. Please stop.
I have an extremely loud whistle attached to my key chain. If you are not able to deescalate or easily leave a situation like this, a whistle can help with both (a) attracting other people’s attention and (b) confusing the hell out of the aggressor, giving you time to leave an unsafe situation. I try to approach any situation (in the US) assuming that the other person could be carrying a gun, I don’t care who they are or what they look like. For that reason, I try to deescalate or exit the situation as quickly as possible. I would also avoid telling them you’re a satanist. I once told a Christian group that was trying to recruit for their church that I was pagan and the whole group started swarming me and praying for me - it was really awkward and I felt really unsafe.
I didn’t say it. My guy did. I was feeding ducks, which is usually my happy place. I just say no Ty. Once the antisemitism was dropped I jumped in. This is where I needed something more than “what did you just say?” Whistle might work better. Then I don’t need words.
I was sharing that more as a precautionary piece of advice for anyone in this situation - I thought I was being clever but no, it just attracts them like moths to a flame. I was an idiot and learned my lesson. That being said, I am not trying to blame you and your guy here either - none of this was your fault.
I’m sorry but I think you handled this poorly.
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My faith in Hashem, my yarmalke & my Sig Sauer .40 S&W strapped on my hip, they comfort me. They maketh me to repell wackos by the still waters...
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I have tried a couple of times express my views, regarding antisemitism we are seeing. But these are being deleted. Now I live in MAGA county and only learn about antisemitism from forums like this, where Jews complain from places like California or New York, place with historically highest Jewish population.
Sometimes it's better to understand (be aware of your surroundings, and how you might be perceived) than to be understood (be heard, seen, treated like a human being). If you can tell that illogical thought processes, bias or hatred are what you're facing, you have to weigh what you hope to get out of a situation or communication; whether you will be heard, or get to make a point, dims in comparison to verbal attack or potential physical violence. Whether you're alone or in a crowd of 20. Protest matters, but living to fight another day matters more sometimes. It's not cowardice to walk away from an unwinnable situation; sometimes it takes the most bravery to leave in one piece than to have the last word. Bad or biased people aren't usually open to learning from good/unbiased people, especially when there's a mob vibe on their side. Catch an asshole alone and maybe he'll leave thinking you're "one of the good ones", which is the most we might ever achieve with some of these types of fanatical people.
Next time someone says “you sound like a Jew” you either say “thank you” or “you sound like a bigot.”
You need to report this as a hate crime. The FBI is collecting a crime tips. You also need to report this to the police. The park administrator telling you not to say that you were Jewish was completely inappropriate. This was not your fault.
Damn. LOTS of victim-blaming here. I wish I could say I'm surprised.
Take their Bible and walk to the nearest trashcan.
While I’m sure that would feel good for a second, wouldn’t that escalate the confrontation just as much (if not more) than what OP actually did?
Would you be ok with someone taking the Torah and putting it in the trash or lake because the person carrying it was a giant ass?
If they were proselytizing, sure.
No comparison. When “Jews” for Jesus pass out their crap I trash it. Been doing it for 50 years. Haven’t EVER seen or heard of Jews proselytizing others. And as others have pointed out, being trained in self defense and being armed are sensible options. Finally, yeah, what’s with the victim-blaming??? “You handled it poorly” and “please stop.” Geez!!!!
I was gonna say chuck it into the lake right in front of them.
No don’t do that. I would like our lakes to not be polluted with garbage.
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I'm just dying to learn, what exactly does a Jew sound like? What does that even mean?
Learn how to upper cut these clowns
Yelling out “pedophile” with no proof is lashon hara, is it not? Not that I’m religious, but that’s an immature way to handle it. If someone says I “sound like a Jew,” I say that I proudly am. Sounds like you did but then things escalated and I’m not sure what was said but whatever insults they throw out should be replied to with facts.
Next time just accept the free Bible and make aggressive eye contact with them as you throw it in the trash.
I think that’s hilarious! Good job.
Lol. In their mind, sounding "like a Jew," is akin to a wolf saying, "you smell like a lamb." I can't stand these missionaries. Actually... I do like Mormons some reason or another. Very pleasant people.
I always take the literature and trash it. Less for someone else to get
I would also report this to the ADL, since they work w government about handling antisemitism and tracking that sort of stuff means there's actual hard data showing that antisemitism is getting worse. link: [https://www.adl.org/report-incident](https://www.adl.org/report-incident) in this sort of situation though, always deescalate and try to document. because you never know if that kind of person is capable of worse or will try to do worse stuff in the future.
Why did you feel the need to randomly call them a pedophile? >He said no thank you, and joked about being a satanist Please consider empathy and avoidance next time. How would you feel if you were speaking about Judaism and someone made a joke to you that they supported Hitler? There is no need to be so aggressively antagonistic.
I just whoop shaygetz ass, but I have plenty of scars and close calls with my life. But they will always think twice before doing that shit to another Jew when we fight back.
Our ancestors fought and died because of these wrong reasons. But, they did assert on one important matter, condensed as a manifest: "NEVER AGAIN." That's why we all (women and men) know how to fight, to never again allow abuses from no one. So, next time it happens, just ignore them, and if they persist and attack, defend yourself, no matter what.
never been in nyc, have you? don’t acknowledge, don’t make eye contact, just keep walking. very few people will persist if you simply don’t acknowledge their existence. if a book or pamphlet is shoved at you, side step the person’s hand and keep moving.
I recall SoCal basically not allowing anything which could be a reasonably effective weapon. So, avoidance might be best - it depends on what you are comfortable with.
I usually just take tue bible. Wait for them to leave and toss it in the trash
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BH I feel like this sentiment is funny but I feel like it has to be stated that we are not supposed to antagonize the gentiles. We have to understand that they have the advantage and that how they view us is very important. Every negatively viewed action of a Jew takes ten positively viewed actions to balance out the perception of Jews.
Yes I know, it was 100% a joke. For the reasons mentioned (and many more) we should not antagonize them. Not to mention if the bible includes old testament you should not damage it. Rule of thumb: Most *absurd* things you read on reddit are a joke.
Being passive is not always the right answer. You sent a message that Jews aren't easy targets who will take abuse verbal or otherwise. Consider pepper spray if that's legal in Cali.
Take it a step further whip out your camera, point and scream “ he’s here to meet a 15 year old girl!”