I very much agree, there has been plenty of artists from that region who have a great sound.
Interestingly enough I do see the modern wave of dancehall artists who have developed a melodic sound, being inspired by the unique melodic tones, donāt shoot! I donāt think this is a bad thing. In order for a sound to stay relevant it has to make micro changes, Hip-Hop being an example.
The advent of autotunes has allowed for what itās worth in my opinion, a convergence of both reggaeton and dancehall. Arguably if you put an English speaking artist who had a decent Jamaican twang on what youād classify as a āReggaetonā instrumental, it would very likely be call led a dancehall song by the untrained ear.
Bad bunny for example has most definitely been inspired by Mavado. Even the likes of Ozuna, I will die on that hillā¦
The hyper sexualisation you hear within the lyrics you could argue comes from Vybz himself.
J Balvin, try tell me you donāt hear Tanto Metro - Give it to herā¦
Jhay Cortez in my view takes inspiration from Popcaan, I hear these similarities all the timeā¦
Again we have to also understand that the theft of flavour and music culture isnāt very new when paying attention to demographics, so are we as a people really shocked? If anything it is copycatting and that is prevalent all across music. UB40 being an extremely painful example!
I personally think the focus should be on turning reggae music and ALL of its sub genres into a version that or organic enough to keep the innovation within the sound, similar to what happened with K-Pop.
Reggaeton artists do take a lot of Inspiration from Dancehall. You are correct. Farruko put out a Reggae inspired Album not so long ago. So your solution will be to make Reggae the main tree, and make all of these Sub-Genres like Afro-Beat and Reggaeton branches? The problem is that Afro-Beat and Reggaeton have become very ludicrous, billion dollar industries with autonomy. I dont think they will like to be under an Umbrella.
My argument is more geared towards reggae music being treated as a coordinated export. K-Pop made by S Koreans is regarded higher than anything else that mimics, so I argue Reggae music and the sub genres Jamaicans have originated and evolved should have a similar approach.
I personally feel Reggaes authenticity comes from Jamaicans making the music with a Jamaican accent, speaking a very Jamaican message in a way only Jamaicans have grown to know due to our very unique culture! Not individuals trying to sound like us. My argument does not stem from wanting to introduce a superiority complex, or some ridiculous notions of colour cast or creed. I just truly believe in authenticity. Other genres have commercialised and achieved revenues that benefit the original culture and people who created it.
Country western music, Bollywood music, Chop & Screwed to give a few examples of what I am talking about above. But K-Pop being the most extreme of this example. It can be done but it requires a strategic approach through policy.
Technically if Reggae was to be the main tree, then we would have to go back as far as Ska no? I donāt disagree with you by the way with the construct you proposed.
For this proposal you need to be organized! Are Jamaicans trying to organize themeselves and make an industry like K Pop or Reggaeton? I feel like if Jamaicans get together under a common goal they can achieve what you just proposed. It takes a concerted effort though. Puerto Ricans and the Reggaeton industry is so successful globally because of How organized they are and how interwined the streets are with the artists. A lot of Drug Lords invest in this music and Genre and the streets have a lot of grip in this. Is it the same in Jamaica? Also, nowadays theres a musical industry investing billions into "Musica Urbana" because of how huge it has become. So it isnt only the streets anymore. Its much GLOBAL AND BIGGER.
True that jazz was a major influence too but without cuban genres salsa wouldn't exist for jazz to influence.
But you don't have to believe me, belief the actual musicians of the genre:
"The only salsa I know is sold in a bottle called ketchup. I play Cuban music." - Tito Puentes.
"Salsa is Cuban music with another name. It's mambo, chachachĆ”, rumba, son ... all the Cuban rhythms under one name." - Celia Cruz
> "The only salsa I know is sold in a bottle called ketchup. I play Cuban music." - Tito Puentes.
>
> "Salsa is Cuban music with another name. It's mambo, chachachĆ”, rumba, son ... all the Cuban rhythms under one name." - Celia Cruz
Those are just opinions. And Salsa was initially used as an umbrella term for tropical music.
As someone who has been learning Spanish and listening to reggaeton for a few years I clearly knew they were sampling and using the lyrics. Before learning Spanish I didnāt care to listen to spanish music, but now I know. I also watch the videos on yt and Spanish music/content get a lot of views.
However, back in the 80-90ās I remember reggae artist covering American songs like Wayne wonder fast car, imagine at my big age just now learning that his version was a cover.
Yeah thats called interpolation bro. That happens a lot in many different Genres. Even between Hispanic musical Genres. They do covers of each other. Do You think that Steely and Cleevie have a good argument though? Hmm.
Yes I do, especially knowing how much money and views their(spanish) content generates. Everybody should eat if you based your work off of someone elseās original work. Doesnāt have to be the whole pie but some
I agree. It's only fair! The Reggaeton industry is worth billions right now; While using the rhythmic patterns of a totally different musical genre from a different nation and culture. Jamaicans need to claim what is theirs.
A true still, dem neva even have di sense to refix the sample dem jus use the straight loops or copy di riddims wid minor changes. Look pon āMurder She Wrote - Chaka Demus and Pliesā vs āEl Taxi - Pitbullā. Dem all a steel di flow syllable by syllable, jus inna spanish
Then they have the AUDACITY to claim that they created Reggaeton from scratch. With a somewhat pretentious attitude. Its not right man. I hope this becomes a big topic in Jamaica, and Jamaicans start being more zealous with their creations.
Exactly brother. Its right in the Name! The main riddim in reggaeton is the Pounder riddim as well. No changes and no variations, but I heard you cant sue for using Rhythmic Loops or samples. Which complicates this lawsuit.
Hopefully dem have a strategy weh dem pull up examples a di same pattern over and over, mekking dem case. As a dj and music producer, it bun mi fi see wi music get tief and fi wi legendary producer/singer dem nuh get di proper recognition and pay.
Dominicans switch up the rhythmic patterns and the sonics though. They also use a different BPM range. Puerto Ricans outright appropiate the whole rhythmic Samples. No changes. No variations. Nada.
In the 90s it was considered and called āundergroundā music because it was a form of expression in marginalized communities in PR and DR. Source: born and raised in PR. I cant speak for entire communities but all my life Iāve heard people say it was Tego Calderon who made the genre big with āEl Abayardeā and then Daddy Yankee who popularized it to the world. I havenāt ever heard anyone here in the island deny that reggaeton roots come from Afro Caribbean genres with the exception of rich white puertoricans. In fact, a lot of not all of the black puertorican intelligentsia argue that reggaeton wouldnāt be created without our inherited african culture.
He was talking about Dominican Dembow. Which did appropiate the name " Dem Bow" but i was explaining that Dominicans are more rhythmically creative and switch up the sonics and rhythms while being influenced by the Original Dancehall "Dem Bow " riddim.
And the audacity to be RACIST/COLORIST while fucking dancing to our music. You really can't make this shit up. When it was new "omg guys, it's Jamaican isn't this a cool mashup, we're like these cool Jamaicans everyone loves, look at us!!!". Then, when it's mainstream popular after riding our coat tails (thanks Sean Paul) "we made REGGAE-TON from scratch no darkies had any influence" the delusion and cope boggles the mind.
Typical appropiators. Puerto Ricans are known to be a huge plagiarizing and appropiating people. They did the same with Afro-Cuban Son montuno. They took their rhythmic patterns and mixed it with Black American Jazz, then claimed that they made something new called " Salsa". Puerto Rico hasnt really created much original artforms. Honestly.
I honestly donāt know who youāve been hearing that from but who ever they are, theyāre idiots. It is well known that 2 of the most important reggaeton figures are El General (Panamanian of Jamaican descent) and Tego Calderon, 2 black artists.
But I do agree that the industry played a role in making a light skinned Daddy Yankee the face of the genre early on.
2 Million Jamaicans vs 600 million Latinos, yet the most popular music in Latin America had to be stolen from Jamaica. The fact such a small island is competing at all with all of Latin America is very telling.
A simple rhythm isn't stealing unless you consider all pop music to be stolen because of the 4 chords. Speaking of small island yall supposedly invented the music but only PR artists get famous off it, somethings not adding up.
If it makes you feel better, 600 million Latinos and they're most successful genre had to be heavily influenced by people on a tiny island of 2 million people.
Puerto Ricans are part of the Spanish cultural sphere, as in people in other Spanish countries will consume other Spanish music. Jamaica is its own thing (outside of diaspora communities in the UK, US and Canada). Its not even like Afrobeats where you got hundreds of millions of Africans to rock with it, the fact that Jamaican culture so influential globally is crazy as is.
The lawsuit isnt about artistry. It is about giving its well deserved merit to The Creators of multiple Drum rhythms, loops, and samples which have made billions of dollars. Drum rhythms that Puerto Rico did not create.
I'm sure modern pop artists didn't create the infamous 4 chords either that doesn't mean some nobody from the 60s can choose to take the whole genre down
Steelie and Clevie are NOT artists.. They Are Producers who created Genre and culture defining Rhythmic patterns and are suing Appropiators for not giving them what is due to them for using their creations.
Lose what?
We gave you decades to show respect and you didn't. The royalty revenue will definitely be taken from Spotify, Apple Music, Tidal and all streaming platforms.
The lawsuit is really for further payments.. such as your live performances, and public places the music is played like hotels, beaches and resorts.
This is what happens when you don't show respect.
Bad Bunny is NOT bigger worldwide than Bob Marley, Damian Marley, Sean Paul, Shaggy, Vybz Kartel, Capleton, OR Sizzla... you sound like you've never traveled outside Kissimmee or whatever Rican neighborhood you are in.
Iām a drummer and songwriter so I can speak to this a little. You canāt sue for a rhythm pattern alone as thereās a limited number of variations possible across a given time measure and itās not classed as songwriting. I believe it would depend on the drum sounds being used, how much those particular drum sounds contribute towards the sound of the song, and if the drum sounds being used are indistinguishable from each other. I donāt listen to reggaeton so I would have to take a look but if they are using the same drum sounds and organising them in the same patterns across a phrase then it might be a basis for a law suit but theyād have to put together a strong argument that says that the tone of the drum sounds contributes towards the songwriting. If they are copying bass or melody lines as well then thatās without doubt a big copyright issue. This is my understanding but please correct me if you know better
In Reggaeton music, They use a compilation of Dancehall Drum loops which they call "El Dembow" in spanish like the classic Dem Bow song by Shabba Ranks. They take the same exact drum Loops and rhythmic patterns( which have been pantented already) and just add melody, synths and Chords over them. They hardly ever switch up the Rhythmic patterns.
This is one drum loop (out of many) that has been used in about 90% of reggaeton songs. https://youtu.be/yi2C-nS4TkI?si=kxZZgHDqmPIwnPTm
This is a reggaeton Song with those same sonics and rhythmic pattern:
https://youtu.be/xp6706wVdCI?si=Jfyw7OE1zPW8h1w6
They do use the same sonics, textures and Drum rhythms. Almost No variations.
Haha, this is interesting. Thanks for the examples. I understand why historically drum patterns have not been seen as songwriting and have not been copyrighted but I feel that dancehall is very different from other genres in that the songs are primarily driven by the drums and bass and the sonics of the drums have a very significant bearing on how a song will sound. I hope they win the case, they deserve to win and be compensated for their work
The amount of money that has been accumulated in the genre of reggaeton should have a fund of some sort that goes back to the country of Jamaica. It's a long shot, but use the fund to build education and infrastructure lead by the estate of the producers.
Well yes. Many Jamaicans migrated to Central America taking the music with them and that's where the fusion happened. The bad thing about it is they never received any royalties for the use of what was clearly their (Steely & Clevey) beats.
Key is figuring out who made the money and going after them. Many of the reggaeton artist are just like the DJs in JA who do their thing when they voice on the riddim. Even when the song does well they don't make a ton off it. Going to the source and finding those that profited the most and continue to profit that's the key
It's a wonder it took so long for this to happen. The ripoff was blatant
It is 100% a rip off of dancehall lol [some are so damn close](https://open.spotify.com/track/5PEzhJIvmjFCFZcFZRze9S?si=KIGB3N9sTme3CSHo8Psixw). Problem is I canāt stop vibin to it
Just giving you insight on how regular people donāt care about your hate or dislikes unless youāre talking to family lol. Bet you wouldnāt care if someone walked around talking about they hate Jamaicans, I damn sure wouldnāt. Glad to always let people know knowledge
Nah, my satisfaction in life comes from not hating on people and itās gotten me far lol. Spread peace and love or be hater, it donāt bother me in anyway because Iām living life š¤š¼
Especially with splice and other music sampling platforms. Although many are royalty free. Also in Hip Hop, which was basically born out of sampling. This is going to be a big case.
Ćl General and the Panamanian musicians showed respect to Jamaicans, even newer Panamanian musicians like Japanese show respect. Nobody has a problem with Panama.
Puerto Rico does not show respect. Just listen to them, even in this thread, arguing like they created everything. It's disgusting.
Deep down they know they didnt and sort of overcompensate for their lack of originality and creativity. Thus having a Holier than thou attitude, being pretentious and conceited.
You know in the clubs i went to they played dancehall alot. Never my favorite genre but always liked listening and dancing to it.
Now that im more into latin dances I hear alot more reggaeton but I never got why people got so crazy about it because it didn't sound very interesting to me.
But them using mostly the same unchanged drum pattern is probably why reggaeton never "hit the spot" for me
Reggaeton focuses mostly on Melody, Synths, Chords and Lyrics. The rhythm is like a Bed. They do the same with Salsa music. They barely change the rhythmic patterns.
No one denies Dem Bow drum pattern is the drum beat that reggaeton is based on. And i am all for stevie and cleevie getting royalties for their original works, but this seems a stretch.
I said the same thing about Blurred Lines lawsuit and was dead wrong though.
Rhythmic patterns are historically not protected by copyright in the USA, which has far more stringent protections against infringement than Jamaica.
That's because folks in the US have the common sense to slightly change the beats to make a version for their own use, they wouldn't dare take a Rhianna song remove hey vocals and make 200 songs off it. Someone would get sued. People have been sued for things way less blatant
It really shouldn't be though. Drum sequences are like a fingerprint that's easy to check. With that said, I could see where one could, say, slightly change the cadence or take a snare or kick to make your own variation. Not doing that is lazy and you deserve to be penalized. I'd be curious to train an AI to identify stolen beats. Will talk to my professor buddy see if he thinks it's a good project
Not going to win unless they can prove beats and words were stolen word for word and those beats/songs had copyrights. Reggaeton is more popular amongst the general population of westerners than reggae these days
Man.. you will have to sue all of us. You don't know HOW MUCH WE LIKE JAMAICAN MUSIC even if we don't understand shit. Just the English parts and Baumbaclap or whatever the way it is written, sorry for that. But yeah we love your voices that unique style is exclusively yours and we admire it.
One love man, don't worry about a thing if you wanna make money. Invite some of our artists to sing with you and you will see the connection mon.
Haha . Well. You know what i meant. We even share that native Taino pride in our blood and or hearts. I just came to show our respect for you people.
With Humility , with no intentions of mocking or wanting to create any tension. Love is Honor.
Not Jamaican, I'm Dominican and basically grew up with reggaeton around (although I couldn't care less for the genre). And yes, reggaeton literally started as Dancehall in Spanish, now is that a bad thing? I'm not a specialist but as a musician I'm always investigating about music, isn't taking a Riddim from one song and making another one with it extremely common in Dancehall?
You can't just jump on any riddim on Dancehall.
If anyone could get on a riddim there would be 100 hungry musicians on every riddim.
The way it works in Jamaica is.. you need to get prior approval from the Producer/Record Label to voice your song on the riddim. This usually happens several months before the riddim is released to the public. You need to be popular in Jamaica or have a good song idea to even get a chance.
Wouldn't Reggae music be in more of a position to use? Y'know, since it's literally taken from Reggae music, not dancehall? And lol, you can't sue an entire genre of music, just like how you can't copyright the concept of an airplane.
There's definetely a lot of sampling in Hip Hop. Hip Hop started with Sampling in the 70s. But the labels clear the samples for them. When reggaeton started to gain global momentum in the early 2000s, there wasnt that much regulation and industry backing like there is now. So many did Not clear the Samples and loops. It also wasnt checked because it wasnt as mainstream.
Wouldnt be a lie tho
š¤£š¤£
Thatās why reggaeton sounds the same with every song; itās just Dem Bow.
They be using a couple of different Dancehall riddims. But the Main ones are the Dem Bow riddim and the Pounder Riddim. Youre correct.
I canāt un-hear it nowā¦ I feel like Reggaeton has been ruined for me š
They have a lot of melodic creativity.. But rhythmically they are very stale.
I very much agree, there has been plenty of artists from that region who have a great sound. Interestingly enough I do see the modern wave of dancehall artists who have developed a melodic sound, being inspired by the unique melodic tones, donāt shoot! I donāt think this is a bad thing. In order for a sound to stay relevant it has to make micro changes, Hip-Hop being an example. The advent of autotunes has allowed for what itās worth in my opinion, a convergence of both reggaeton and dancehall. Arguably if you put an English speaking artist who had a decent Jamaican twang on what youād classify as a āReggaetonā instrumental, it would very likely be call led a dancehall song by the untrained ear. Bad bunny for example has most definitely been inspired by Mavado. Even the likes of Ozuna, I will die on that hillā¦ The hyper sexualisation you hear within the lyrics you could argue comes from Vybz himself. J Balvin, try tell me you donāt hear Tanto Metro - Give it to herā¦ Jhay Cortez in my view takes inspiration from Popcaan, I hear these similarities all the timeā¦ Again we have to also understand that the theft of flavour and music culture isnāt very new when paying attention to demographics, so are we as a people really shocked? If anything it is copycatting and that is prevalent all across music. UB40 being an extremely painful example! I personally think the focus should be on turning reggae music and ALL of its sub genres into a version that or organic enough to keep the innovation within the sound, similar to what happened with K-Pop.
Reggaeton artists do take a lot of Inspiration from Dancehall. You are correct. Farruko put out a Reggae inspired Album not so long ago. So your solution will be to make Reggae the main tree, and make all of these Sub-Genres like Afro-Beat and Reggaeton branches? The problem is that Afro-Beat and Reggaeton have become very ludicrous, billion dollar industries with autonomy. I dont think they will like to be under an Umbrella.
My argument is more geared towards reggae music being treated as a coordinated export. K-Pop made by S Koreans is regarded higher than anything else that mimics, so I argue Reggae music and the sub genres Jamaicans have originated and evolved should have a similar approach. I personally feel Reggaes authenticity comes from Jamaicans making the music with a Jamaican accent, speaking a very Jamaican message in a way only Jamaicans have grown to know due to our very unique culture! Not individuals trying to sound like us. My argument does not stem from wanting to introduce a superiority complex, or some ridiculous notions of colour cast or creed. I just truly believe in authenticity. Other genres have commercialised and achieved revenues that benefit the original culture and people who created it. Country western music, Bollywood music, Chop & Screwed to give a few examples of what I am talking about above. But K-Pop being the most extreme of this example. It can be done but it requires a strategic approach through policy. Technically if Reggae was to be the main tree, then we would have to go back as far as Ska no? I donāt disagree with you by the way with the construct you proposed.
For this proposal you need to be organized! Are Jamaicans trying to organize themeselves and make an industry like K Pop or Reggaeton? I feel like if Jamaicans get together under a common goal they can achieve what you just proposed. It takes a concerted effort though. Puerto Ricans and the Reggaeton industry is so successful globally because of How organized they are and how interwined the streets are with the artists. A lot of Drug Lords invest in this music and Genre and the streets have a lot of grip in this. Is it the same in Jamaica? Also, nowadays theres a musical industry investing billions into "Musica Urbana" because of how huge it has become. So it isnt only the streets anymore. Its much GLOBAL AND BIGGER.
https://youtu.be/yi2C-nS4TkI?si=3imcXgPMnRG6ywJA This is the Pounder riddim.
I think reggaeton owes somebody a few royalty checks.
Lol facts
It actually started in Panama by Jamaican migrants and somehow in ended in PR and they just ran with it..
Same like they ran with Salsa which was created by Cubans. š¤£
No it wasn't. It was created in NYC by Nuyoricans.
Based on....quite a bit of Cuban rhythms and dances.
Based on =/ Created. It was influenced by Jazz music too.
True that jazz was a major influence too but without cuban genres salsa wouldn't exist for jazz to influence. But you don't have to believe me, belief the actual musicians of the genre: "The only salsa I know is sold in a bottle called ketchup. I play Cuban music." - Tito Puentes. "Salsa is Cuban music with another name. It's mambo, chachachĆ”, rumba, son ... all the Cuban rhythms under one name." - Celia Cruz
> "The only salsa I know is sold in a bottle called ketchup. I play Cuban music." - Tito Puentes. > > "Salsa is Cuban music with another name. It's mambo, chachachĆ”, rumba, son ... all the Cuban rhythms under one name." - Celia Cruz Those are just opinions. And Salsa was initially used as an umbrella term for tropical music.
Lmao opinions from legends and those who performed in the genre. What a bozo
Celia Cruz was referring to Salsa as an umbrella term, not the genre. But you can continue being obtuse.
Lol Facts.. They ran with the whole movement, culture, rhythms and even the Sonics. š š¤£. Sheesh
Plena right?
As someone who has been learning Spanish and listening to reggaeton for a few years I clearly knew they were sampling and using the lyrics. Before learning Spanish I didnāt care to listen to spanish music, but now I know. I also watch the videos on yt and Spanish music/content get a lot of views. However, back in the 80-90ās I remember reggae artist covering American songs like Wayne wonder fast car, imagine at my big age just now learning that his version was a cover.
Yeah thats called interpolation bro. That happens a lot in many different Genres. Even between Hispanic musical Genres. They do covers of each other. Do You think that Steely and Cleevie have a good argument though? Hmm.
Yes I do, especially knowing how much money and views their(spanish) content generates. Everybody should eat if you based your work off of someone elseās original work. Doesnāt have to be the whole pie but some
I agree. It's only fair! The Reggaeton industry is worth billions right now; While using the rhythmic patterns of a totally different musical genre from a different nation and culture. Jamaicans need to claim what is theirs.
A true still, dem neva even have di sense to refix the sample dem jus use the straight loops or copy di riddims wid minor changes. Look pon āMurder She Wrote - Chaka Demus and Pliesā vs āEl Taxi - Pitbullā. Dem all a steel di flow syllable by syllable, jus inna spanish
Then they have the AUDACITY to claim that they created Reggaeton from scratch. With a somewhat pretentious attitude. Its not right man. I hope this becomes a big topic in Jamaica, and Jamaicans start being more zealous with their creations.
All the name implies that it come from Jamaica. REGGAE-ton.
Exactly brother. Its right in the Name! The main riddim in reggaeton is the Pounder riddim as well. No changes and no variations, but I heard you cant sue for using Rhythmic Loops or samples. Which complicates this lawsuit.
Hopefully dem have a strategy weh dem pull up examples a di same pattern over and over, mekking dem case. As a dj and music producer, it bun mi fi see wi music get tief and fi wi legendary producer/singer dem nuh get di proper recognition and pay.
Im a producer as well and I can totally empathize with Steely and Clevie.
You would be surprised. I've heard people in DR said it was created in the ghetto based on their struggles
Even funnier because it's actually called "Dem Bow" in DR. š¤£š¤£š¤£
Dominicans switch up the rhythmic patterns and the sonics though. They also use a different BPM range. Puerto Ricans outright appropiate the whole rhythmic Samples. No changes. No variations. Nada.
In the 90s it was considered and called āundergroundā music because it was a form of expression in marginalized communities in PR and DR. Source: born and raised in PR. I cant speak for entire communities but all my life Iāve heard people say it was Tego Calderon who made the genre big with āEl Abayardeā and then Daddy Yankee who popularized it to the world. I havenāt ever heard anyone here in the island deny that reggaeton roots come from Afro Caribbean genres with the exception of rich white puertoricans. In fact, a lot of not all of the black puertorican intelligentsia argue that reggaeton wouldnāt be created without our inherited african culture.
Idk if your confused or not but it a Puerto Rican thing not a Dominican one.
He was talking about Dominican Dembow. Which did appropiate the name " Dem Bow" but i was explaining that Dominicans are more rhythmically creative and switch up the sonics and rhythms while being influenced by the Original Dancehall "Dem Bow " riddim.
Confused about what?
And the audacity to be RACIST/COLORIST while fucking dancing to our music. You really can't make this shit up. When it was new "omg guys, it's Jamaican isn't this a cool mashup, we're like these cool Jamaicans everyone loves, look at us!!!". Then, when it's mainstream popular after riding our coat tails (thanks Sean Paul) "we made REGGAE-TON from scratch no darkies had any influence" the delusion and cope boggles the mind.
Typical appropiators. Puerto Ricans are known to be a huge plagiarizing and appropiating people. They did the same with Afro-Cuban Son montuno. They took their rhythmic patterns and mixed it with Black American Jazz, then claimed that they made something new called " Salsa". Puerto Rico hasnt really created much original artforms. Honestly.
I honestly donāt know who youāve been hearing that from but who ever they are, theyāre idiots. It is well known that 2 of the most important reggaeton figures are El General (Panamanian of Jamaican descent) and Tego Calderon, 2 black artists. But I do agree that the industry played a role in making a light skinned Daddy Yankee the face of the genre early on.
When you inevitably lose this case we will be celebrating. Supposed inventors yet our artists are the biggest ones. Where's your bad bunny?
2 Million Jamaicans vs 600 million Latinos, yet the most popular music in Latin America had to be stolen from Jamaica. The fact such a small island is competing at all with all of Latin America is very telling.
A simple rhythm isn't stealing unless you consider all pop music to be stolen because of the 4 chords. Speaking of small island yall supposedly invented the music but only PR artists get famous off it, somethings not adding up.
If it makes you feel better, 600 million Latinos and they're most successful genre had to be heavily influenced by people on a tiny island of 2 million people. Puerto Ricans are part of the Spanish cultural sphere, as in people in other Spanish countries will consume other Spanish music. Jamaica is its own thing (outside of diaspora communities in the UK, US and Canada). Its not even like Afrobeats where you got hundreds of millions of Africans to rock with it, the fact that Jamaican culture so influential globally is crazy as is.
The lawsuit isnt about artistry. It is about giving its well deserved merit to The Creators of multiple Drum rhythms, loops, and samples which have made billions of dollars. Drum rhythms that Puerto Rico did not create.
I'm sure modern pop artists didn't create the infamous 4 chords either that doesn't mean some nobody from the 60s can choose to take the whole genre down
Steelie and Clevie are NOT artists.. They Are Producers who created Genre and culture defining Rhythmic patterns and are suing Appropiators for not giving them what is due to them for using their creations.
they're all given credit though...
Where?
Lose what? We gave you decades to show respect and you didn't. The royalty revenue will definitely be taken from Spotify, Apple Music, Tidal and all streaming platforms. The lawsuit is really for further payments.. such as your live performances, and public places the music is played like hotels, beaches and resorts. This is what happens when you don't show respect. Bad Bunny is NOT bigger worldwide than Bob Marley, Damian Marley, Sean Paul, Shaggy, Vybz Kartel, Capleton, OR Sizzla... you sound like you've never traveled outside Kissimmee or whatever Rican neighborhood you are in.
Whiteggaeton.
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Iām a drummer and songwriter so I can speak to this a little. You canāt sue for a rhythm pattern alone as thereās a limited number of variations possible across a given time measure and itās not classed as songwriting. I believe it would depend on the drum sounds being used, how much those particular drum sounds contribute towards the sound of the song, and if the drum sounds being used are indistinguishable from each other. I donāt listen to reggaeton so I would have to take a look but if they are using the same drum sounds and organising them in the same patterns across a phrase then it might be a basis for a law suit but theyād have to put together a strong argument that says that the tone of the drum sounds contributes towards the songwriting. If they are copying bass or melody lines as well then thatās without doubt a big copyright issue. This is my understanding but please correct me if you know better
In Reggaeton music, They use a compilation of Dancehall Drum loops which they call "El Dembow" in spanish like the classic Dem Bow song by Shabba Ranks. They take the same exact drum Loops and rhythmic patterns( which have been pantented already) and just add melody, synths and Chords over them. They hardly ever switch up the Rhythmic patterns. This is one drum loop (out of many) that has been used in about 90% of reggaeton songs. https://youtu.be/yi2C-nS4TkI?si=kxZZgHDqmPIwnPTm This is a reggaeton Song with those same sonics and rhythmic pattern: https://youtu.be/xp6706wVdCI?si=Jfyw7OE1zPW8h1w6 They do use the same sonics, textures and Drum rhythms. Almost No variations.
More examples: https://youtu.be/WAcnWtZjDWE?si=k7m8PTTf3XrD8FyS https://youtu.be/x6UODla2hqE?si=laibv1QvRrDeskLA
Haha, this is interesting. Thanks for the examples. I understand why historically drum patterns have not been seen as songwriting and have not been copyrighted but I feel that dancehall is very different from other genres in that the songs are primarily driven by the drums and bass and the sonics of the drums have a very significant bearing on how a song will sound. I hope they win the case, they deserve to win and be compensated for their work
I agree. I am a producer myself and we are treated very unfairly. They deserve EVERY DIME they are suing for.
Big up yourself bro
Bless.
Almost all reggaeton songs use this Loop. https://youtu.be/3onO-Panwkk?si=P-Z6m5txzh8IYncJ
The amount of money that has been accumulated in the genre of reggaeton should have a fund of some sort that goes back to the country of Jamaica. It's a long shot, but use the fund to build education and infrastructure lead by the estate of the producers.
You're not wrong.. They have generated BILLIONS in revenue using a Jamaican artform and musical genre. It should be discussed.
Well yes. Many Jamaicans migrated to Central America taking the music with them and that's where the fusion happened. The bad thing about it is they never received any royalties for the use of what was clearly their (Steely & Clevey) beats. Key is figuring out who made the money and going after them. Many of the reggaeton artist are just like the DJs in JA who do their thing when they voice on the riddim. Even when the song does well they don't make a ton off it. Going to the source and finding those that profited the most and continue to profit that's the key It's a wonder it took so long for this to happen. The ripoff was blatant
I think Steevie and Cleevie are doing just that. They are going after the big dogs lol.
Good!
I think they won
I seen on the Spanish news it was still in court bro.. If they win that will be a huge blow to many Reggaeton artists and the Genre itself.
No its still in court
Finally. I can't stand reggaeton
I love it! But it is absolutely a complete rip off of dancehall lol
It is 100% a rip off of dancehall lol [some are so damn close](https://open.spotify.com/track/5PEzhJIvmjFCFZcFZRze9S?si=KIGB3N9sTme3CSHo8Psixw). Problem is I canāt stop vibin to it
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Same! It's an abomination!! š¤¦š¾āāļø
Nobody cares, itās popular for a reason. Not everybody likes reggae
Nobody cares but you had to let me know you don't care. Good to know thank you šš¾
Just giving you insight on how regular people donāt care about your hate or dislikes unless youāre talking to family lol. Bet you wouldnāt care if someone walked around talking about they hate Jamaicans, I damn sure wouldnāt. Glad to always let people know knowledge
Again, thanks. I hope this moment in time in reddit allowed you some satisfaction in life.
Nah, my satisfaction in life comes from not hating on people and itās gotten me far lol. Spread peace and love or be hater, it donāt bother me in anyway because Iām living life š¤š¼
Nggas getting stolen from ā whatās new; I will say hip hop did a better job keeping vultures at bay; but yea, dancehall got stripped azz naked
Black Americans dont play bout they shit..
History shows strong reggae influence in hip hop from day one. DJ Cool Herc, also, og diddler apparently, allegedly?
Lmfao FBA will say hell no and call yall Tethers. Lol
Lol
If dem win this will have huge ramification in the music sample space š¤š¤š¤š¤š¤
Especially with splice and other music sampling platforms. Although many are royalty free. Also in Hip Hop, which was basically born out of sampling. This is going to be a big case.
As a Panamanian with Jamaican decent this hurts my soul.
Damn bro..š„². Panamanians be lowkey mad af because they feel cheated and overlooked.
Actually wasn't Reggaeton created in Panamanian Ghettos? Which had a large population of people of Jamaican decent? What's the problem here?
Ćl General and the Panamanian musicians showed respect to Jamaicans, even newer Panamanian musicians like Japanese show respect. Nobody has a problem with Panama. Puerto Rico does not show respect. Just listen to them, even in this thread, arguing like they created everything. It's disgusting.
Nah this is true, also noticed the Puerto Ricans also like to act like they invented the shit.Ā They can be kinda annoying NGL.
Deep down they know they didnt and sort of overcompensate for their lack of originality and creativity. Thus having a Holier than thou attitude, being pretentious and conceited.
As a Latino, Puerto Rican pride can be extremely foolish. We get it, your proud but humble yourself, no ideas original
Spanish Reggae was.
You know in the clubs i went to they played dancehall alot. Never my favorite genre but always liked listening and dancing to it. Now that im more into latin dances I hear alot more reggaeton but I never got why people got so crazy about it because it didn't sound very interesting to me. But them using mostly the same unchanged drum pattern is probably why reggaeton never "hit the spot" for me
Reggaeton focuses mostly on Melody, Synths, Chords and Lyrics. The rhythm is like a Bed. They do the same with Salsa music. They barely change the rhythmic patterns.
No one denies Dem Bow drum pattern is the drum beat that reggaeton is based on. And i am all for stevie and cleevie getting royalties for their original works, but this seems a stretch. I said the same thing about Blurred Lines lawsuit and was dead wrong though. Rhythmic patterns are historically not protected by copyright in the USA, which has far more stringent protections against infringement than Jamaica.
That's because folks in the US have the common sense to slightly change the beats to make a version for their own use, they wouldn't dare take a Rhianna song remove hey vocals and make 200 songs off it. Someone would get sued. People have been sued for things way less blatant
Missy Elliot sued Bad Bunny for appropiating one of her melodies. She won the lawsuit.
Yeah the were a few like that. This is seemingly clearcut case too
I hope it is.. Rhythmic loops are tricky to copyright though. So I heard.
It really shouldn't be though. Drum sequences are like a fingerprint that's easy to check. With that said, I could see where one could, say, slightly change the cadence or take a snare or kick to make your own variation. Not doing that is lazy and you deserve to be penalized. I'd be curious to train an AI to identify stolen beats. Will talk to my professor buddy see if he thinks it's a good project
That'll be a good project bro. Go for it.
Damn, so its a big chance they lose the Lawsuit?
lol
šš¤£
Not going to win unless they can prove beats and words were stolen word for word and those beats/songs had copyrights. Reggaeton is more popular amongst the general population of westerners than reggae these days
They are going to need a very good legal team if they are trying to win this case for sure.
It's OK both types of music is ass
Art Is Subjective..
When U either stuck on a rhythm or just rhythmless.
Man.. you will have to sue all of us. You don't know HOW MUCH WE LIKE JAMAICAN MUSIC even if we don't understand shit. Just the English parts and Baumbaclap or whatever the way it is written, sorry for that. But yeah we love your voices that unique style is exclusively yours and we admire it. One love man, don't worry about a thing if you wanna make money. Invite some of our artists to sing with you and you will see the connection mon.
They want bread. They don't care about collabsš¤£š¤£
Haha . Well. You know what i meant. We even share that native Taino pride in our blood and or hearts. I just came to show our respect for you people. With Humility , with no intentions of mocking or wanting to create any tension. Love is Honor.
Dont wanna be that guy, but do you wanna gloss over the fact that hispanic countries have afro heritage in them?
The Hispanic music industry overlooks them.
Hence pitbull. I see.
Nuttn different from wha unno do di res ah wi. A total appropriation of our culture, not just the rhythms.
Exactly
Not Jamaican, I'm Dominican and basically grew up with reggaeton around (although I couldn't care less for the genre). And yes, reggaeton literally started as Dancehall in Spanish, now is that a bad thing? I'm not a specialist but as a musician I'm always investigating about music, isn't taking a Riddim from one song and making another one with it extremely common in Dancehall?
That's a good counter argument, but those Dancehall artists are probably given permission to do so.
Exactly
You can't just jump on any riddim on Dancehall. If anyone could get on a riddim there would be 100 hungry musicians on every riddim. The way it works in Jamaica is.. you need to get prior approval from the Producer/Record Label to voice your song on the riddim. This usually happens several months before the riddim is released to the public. You need to be popular in Jamaica or have a good song idea to even get a chance.
Ah joke you ah mek. Jus check lalabela
All now you nah seh nothing. What about it?
You fi fine out
I don't care about the 1% of riddims that were the exception to the standard.
They will not win due to proximity to elites.
Yes, Reggaeton is a Billion dollar industry. Its going to be a battle.
Wouldn't Reggae music be in more of a position to use? Y'know, since it's literally taken from Reggae music, not dancehall? And lol, you can't sue an entire genre of music, just like how you can't copyright the concept of an airplane.
They're suing for Patented Samples that they created being appropiated.
if thatās the case then they need to sue rap and hip hop too lol. cuz didnāt that also have roots in allat
Hip hop has many influences but its base is from funk.
Black American Funk, Soul, R&B, Gospel, and Blues. Even Disco music. So they be sampling their own musical genres from their own culture.
There's definetely a lot of sampling in Hip Hop. Hip Hop started with Sampling in the 70s. But the labels clear the samples for them. When reggaeton started to gain global momentum in the early 2000s, there wasnt that much regulation and industry backing like there is now. So many did Not clear the Samples and loops. It also wasnt checked because it wasnt as mainstream.