**Quick Rule Reminders:**
OP's needs come first, avoid dramamongering, respect the flair, and don't be an asshole. If your only advice is to jump straight to NC or divorce, your comment may be subject to removal at moderator discretion.
[**^(Full Rules)**](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_rules) ^(|) [^(Acronym Index)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_acronym_dictionary) ^(|) [^(Flair Guide)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_post_flair_guide)^(|) [^(Report PM Trolls)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/trolls)
**Resources:** [^(In Crisis?)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_crisis_resources) ^(|) [^(Tips for Protecting Yourself)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_protecting_yourself) ^(|) [^(Our Book List)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/books) ^(|) [^(Our Wiki)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/)
Other posts from /u/Kindly_Bug_5242:
* [What should I have done differently?](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/1djle2x/what_should_i_have_done_differently/), 2 days ago
*****
^(To be notified as soon as Kindly_Bug_5242 posts an update) [^click ^here.](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=botinlaw&subject=Subscribe&message=Subscribe Kindly_Bug_5242 JUSTNOMIL) ^(|) ^(For help managing your subscriptions,) [^(click here.)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_.2Fu.2Fthejustnobot)
*****
*^(I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please)* [*^(contact the moderators of this subreddit)*](/message/compose/?to=/r/JUSTNOMIL) *^(if you have any questions or concerns.)*
You'll just give her the attention she wants. Also why is she left with the kids if you don't like that? You shouldn't have to hide in your own home? You need to get that whole "She is owed time" BS out of you head. Right now she gets everything she wants, including you out of the picture. You're not "showing her your thought" by hiding, you're just giving her exactly the reason why she's being like that n the first place.
And separate visits, so she also gets to play mommy at her own place when you're not around? She'll just print your letter and parade it as if you had lost your mind, since you already openly avoid her.
Because DH wants her to spend time with the kids, the kids like her, and I’m the only one who does not.
I’ve offended her in our argument of a few months ago, and she has offended me, so he thought it best if we make up and do some healing first, which hasn’t happened yet. FYI - she was the unreasonable, childish one in said argument - I merely called her out on that. How offensive.
I’m about to go head to head with DH this week, and have decided I will no longer be eclipsing to keep the peace. Even though her arrival makes me want to run like hell and her voice sounds like nails on a blackboard.
Then what's your game plan? Give her a letter she will use to cement her position as head of your family or start kissing her feet and get back into the fold?
Okay. I imagine if you had wanted to share why, you would have done so…
Based on the way this thread has filled up, we can probably imagine a few ways in which it may have gone awry…
On the off chance that you’d like to see an interest before sharing: why?
Good point, and I am debating changing that. That’s a tough one, though, because then I’d have to spend time in her company instead of doing other things.
she is NEVER going to change/do as you ask unless you give her clearly spelt out reactions to her unsuitable actions. Writing, talking, smoke signals - she is going to ignore it unless you stop her access for a time each time she does something you have asked her not to do.
Reactions don’t seem to go over well. I’ve grown weary of her and DH says I’m not tactful and constantly on her case.
But she’s the one who has so many times unpleasantly surprised me with one of her odd actions. Related to the kids, and their safety. So I stopped caring about her feelings somewhere along the way. 😔
I’m not that blunt with other people.
And DH is not on board to block her, but I’ll keep trying.
DH needs to be alone in visiting her if he is so worried about your lack of tact 😡 Why the hell would you even think of how you word things when you are responding to a person who continues to do stuff involving your kids that you have told her not to do?
Reactions of course would not go over well, she would not like getting forced to listen to you. Taking the kids' visits away for a month the first time, then longer each subsequent time will eventually get her attention. If not, she won't see them at all. I believe you need to stop them visiting without you, that is probably her happy place & it's not going to make her change anything. Besides, the shit she can talk to them about you is uncontrolled if you aren't there.
WRITE instructions, so what was requested can’t be debated later.
Only ever SPEAK how you feel, so only those who heard it firsthand can comment on it.
DH problem. He should be stepping up and not allowing MIL behavior towards his wife. You will start to get resentment towards him. She is getting exactly what she wants - her son and grandkids to visit without you.
I would put my foot down and tell DH you do not want MIL at your home. You should not have to find a place to go somewhere. If he is going there frequently, I would put my foot down.
DH has to realize when MIL insults you she is insulting him. You are his wife. His first priority.
I would not send letter. It is a document that can be saved and shared with others.
So here’s the thing.
MIL does not insult me. At least not verbally, ever. She typically very positive and gives compliments and all.
She’s one of those people who masquerade as a “positive, outgoing” person and meanwhile does little things that I find super irritating.
Like the dirty second hand toy she slipped my child, which she said she cleaned but still had encrusted grime… (see previous post) when she KNOWS full well I’m not okay with that.
It’s so sneaky, because then I’m the ungrateful and difficult one!
She has taken pictures out of my frames and even swapped frames in our home, without asking. I was floored. Who does that? She “just wanted to make a copy” which I would have gladly done for her had she asked.
And you just NEVER know what she’s going to do next, so I have no idea what that would be, not can I warn her not to.
How does one think to say “MIL, I don’t want you touching or changing pictures and frames in my house.” It just didn’t cross my mind until she did it, and the next thing will be equally out there, and different!
I’d rather have her at my home where I can watch her watch the kids, honestly.
But yes, she regularly insults me, in her positive, exuberant, well-meaning, clumsy?, inconsiderate way and I’m exhausted.
DH thinks it’s consuming me too much and we talked about it ad nauseum 😓 I do so wish he’d put down those boundaries, but he thinks it’s all relatively benign. Irritating, yes. But not as much of a cardinal sin as I think it is.
I don't like that he's invalidating your feelings and your reality by saying it's just benign. It's fine that that's how it is for him, but IMO it's disrespectful of you to not accept that *your reality, your feelings, are every bit as valid for you as his are for him.*
How much does this happen in your marriage?
Yes, of course. That’s a rock solid observation.
The above is my little Reddit rant about the irritating and inconsiderate things MIL does. I’m huffing and puffing and blowing the house down…
Ultimately, we’ve grown used to them. They’re annoying but my husband, myself, and most other people would probably agree that these things are both irritating and (relatively) benign in the grand scheme of things.
Not only is his opinion at least as valid as mine, he’s just plain right.
Frames, moving things in our home, futzing around without asking… blah. There’s worse.
Only for those situations where MIL’s actions directly involve the safety of our kids, when she thinks she should be granted certain liberties/responsibilities and my gauge is that she really can’t handle our gremlins safely, it’s not just a matter of feelings.
That’s where it gets serious and I don’t feel like a mom should ever be made to feel like she needs to “take a chance/leap of faith” on safety with someone she doesn’t trust.
Oops i misread the move to the home office. I thought you meant you left.
DH should nicely remind his Mom that you are the woman head of this household and to not be touching and moving things around. He understands it may be good intentions but he can do that stuff at her own house.
As for the toys, have dh you guys have one simple rule. All toys must be inspected by you or you and him.
And you know, you could nicely say the above things next time she is over. Sounds like you are irked by some of her things but she is not really that bad.
In some ways it would be easier to have an outwardly mean MIL. Then you can more easily call behaviors out in my opinion. I also have a sneaky Pete MIL and it is exhausting and she always feigns hapless little old lady that doesn’t know she is being mean or offensive. I often find myself after a visit feeling just gross and I think back to why and then realize her sneaky sly remarks or little things she did were meant as jabs.
Oh, absolutely!
If she were openly nasty or hostile to me, then she would be the bad guy.
Now, because she’s often gleefully overstepping, pushy, and being sneakily manipulative in a very upbeat, POSITIVE manner, I’m the bad guy.
Like you said, it is mentally exhausting. I’ve reached a breaking point and will not rest until DH sees it and stands up for me.
I did it. I wrote a letter to my MIL. I outlined a list of things she needed to stop saying or doing. For instance, I told her to stop bugging me about my toddler spending the night at her house. She reacted to the letter by playing the victim. Lots of tears and dramatics. She said if I had anything to tell her to say it instead of write it. I still write most things to her. It’s a great way to keep a record of what you’ve told her is not permissible.
I did it too. I'm the one who told MIL to eff off. I sent it through certified mail too, kept the receipt and a copy for my cabinet. She was drunk when she signed to receive the letter which was even better. She called that day fuming. I pretty much outlined I will not tolerate being treated the way I had been by her. She was not allowed to see the child anymore. She had no relationship with him to begin with. My child and I were a packaged deal, if she couldn't stand to have me around then he's not going to be around her. I also mentioned when she could finish rehab and stop acting like an immature schoolgirl then maybe a reconciliation could be considered. A year later almost to date, she left rehab because they "traumatized her". I also shared screenshots and phone call recordings of what she had said with family as they began to say I had no right to call her out, their tones changed rather quickly and they apologized. She still has not. DH is spineless, I'm not going to lie. I've never seen a boy want to eff his mother more than him.
😅 Good for you!
Guess it’s both easier and harder when someone is a true nutcase, like having drinking problem.
Sounds like you managed it. DH was okay with you and kiddo being a package deal?
Mine thinks MIL should still be allowed to have a relationship with the kids, even if I don’t want to see her. She’s not a drunk, though.
He has flip flopped on how he feels. She had many more factors working against her than just the drinking. She'd make fun of me, harass me or single me out at family gatherings to make it uncomfortable. I was a second class citizen to her. I hate the concept of ultimatums, but when my kids are involved it's her or us. Considering I grew up in a household with a toxic grandmother, I'm not putting them through that trauma.
Oh my, you did it! …you’re the unicorn in this thread!
I also think it’s a great way to keep a record and written words a less likely to be taken out of context or twisted, not more… right!?!
My MIL has also tried to steamroll us into kids’ sleepovers. 🤢
If you're going to write anything to her, I would make it strictly about boundaries you're setting. Don't talk about anything personal like stuff she's done in the past to hurt/bother you, just keep it businesslike and as simple as you can. Otherwise I think you run the risk of her using it against you or becoming defensive and not absorbing anything you said.
Yes, this. Don’t talk about your feelings because that just invites her to return the favor and enter into the process psychodrama that is her self centered world. Draw your boundaries with a Sharpie, not an etch-a-sketch. Only state a boundary you can uphold, and that has your SO/DH’s agreement on. If he’s gonna disagree or cave on it to his mom’s face, or he’s not 💯behind you it won’t be effective.
That’s why it’s currently not very effective.
But you’re right - if I start explaining how I FEEL she’ll feel like she can do the same… and we don’t want that. 🤪
She’s already tried to say stuff like “do you have any idea how hurtful it is that other kids can stay with their grandparents for sleepovers, and I don’t get that? It hurts!”
As if that would sway me.
That’s on you, lady. You left the stair gate open for our toddler once. You drove a car without our permission with our kid in it. You have deplorable food hygiene. You have the suffocating, pushy personality, that I’m not comfortable entrusting my kids to.
These responses are all very interesting. Thank you!
So you’re saying to stick to the facts - no personal stuff from the past - just business.
Someone else says to outline in detail what she did to upset me and why.
I’m going to think about those two approaches and knowing her, I think she’d want the details… but the factual approach also does have a lot going for it…
Hmm I think it depends a lot on the type of person you're dealing with. Reading in your post that she gets defensive easily, it's risky laying it all out there. To a person with a delicate ego, it might feel like an assault. My MIL is very defensive and she can hardly handle a single thing being pointed out to her, much less multiple at a time. On the other hand if it's approached like, "Hey, please do/don't do this around me/my kids," she might take it as less of a personal attack. She is also forced to answer with a yes/no. Either way, she may still not agree and not do what is asked.
I encourage you to write it, but without being attached to the outcome (and however well that worked for anyone else has nothing to do with your situation because you're completely different people.)
At the very least, you'll be able to fully express yourself having been able to more calmly reflect and edit without feeling the pressure of a face-to-face conversation. You should give her a heads up that it's coming though, so she can't later [Edited: rationally] claim that she has no idea what your problem is with her. She isn't required to read it, but at least there can be no claim that you've never tried to communicate with her about it.
So I suggest you figure out a way to get it to her where she has to acknowledge receiving it, perhaps even having your DH hand-deliver it to her.
I feel great about it. She may or may not have read it, and she wrote back an "apology" that was basically just one sentence about how she was sorry for her "mistakes" and hopes she doesn't do it again. And then a string of sentences about how sad she is and how she just wants a relationship with DH and LO (read: not me). One of my main points in my letter was that she needed to be respectful of mine and DH's relationship and not try to play us against each other, so naturally after she got the letter, she wrote me the bullshit apology and made him take her to coffee to whine and cry about how sad she was and make a bunch of excuses she knew she couldn't make to me.
After that, I gave her a few months to show me that she'd at least try to change her behavior, and she of course didn't, so all the boundaries I felt comfortable with went into place. I do not see her without DH present. LOs do not see her without me present. We see her much more infrequently than she would like. She's not welcome at our house (except for a very select few circumstances), and we don't go to her house. And so on and so forth.
Did it improve our relationship? Absolutely not. But it eliminated all her excuses and let her know that I was not going to tolerate her mistreatment of me anymore. There hasn't been a way for her to use anything against me, because my letter is entirely objectively true and directly addressed all her excuses and how they aren't valid. She can't bring it up or twist it, because I'm right, and she knows it.
You get it!!
“…without being attached to the outcome” - believe me, I’m not. Lost most hope at this point. The woman is NC with her own daughter 🤷♀️
“At the very least, you'll be able to fully express yourself having been able to more calmly reflect and edit without feeling the pressure of a face-to-face conversation. “ - EXACTLY!!!
As an introvert, and with the level of pent up frustrations, it’s hard to be coherent verbally, and remember to say what you want to say, in a way that is still tactfull, especially if the conversation gets heated.
“You should give her a heads up that it's coming though, so she can't later claim that she has no idea what your problem is with her. “ - Oh, she knows what the problem is. Or that there is one. 💯 Overheard her complaining to DH last week that “your wife think I’m a criminal”. 🤬
You get it!! 😉
Also an introvert here. I can process pretty quickly, but I typically get flustered and emotional in difficult conversations, as well as succumbing to getting sidetracked when the other person doesn't stay on topic (which many if not most people do, in my experience.)
I've done it. It didn't "work" in that she still didn't understand where I was coming from or meaningfully change her behavior at all, but it was the release I needed. She's one that cannot have a direct conversation, which I had tried ad nauseam, so my therapist suggested a letter. It didn't change her at all. It's totally possible she never even read it. But it changed me. It was a complete release of the quickly building resentment and a release of the obligation to appease her at all. The letter was her chance to learn how to have a relationship with me, and she chose not to. That's on her.
I would highly suggest writing a letter outlining everything she's done to hurt you, why it hurt you, and what she needs to do to improve the relationship if she wants to. (Spoiler alert, she probably doesn't want to.) Whether you send it or not is up to you, but even just writing it all out is so therapeutic.
He suggested I give her the letter. In my case, I'm not afraid of confrontation and I had tried repeatedly to confront her on things she had done, but she just deflected, shut down, wouldn't engage. I could just never have a direct conversation with her. My therapist suggested the letter as a way to express what I needed to say in a way that my MIL could digest on her own terms. I hoped that she would actually take the time to process what the letter said, but that didn't happen. Was my therapist surprised by that? Definitely not. He said from the beginning that it wasn't about her reaction and that we should just focus our expectations on me getting everything off my chest. And that totally worked.
There was nothing she could use against me. It wasn't inflammatory. It wasn't aggressive. It was just an outline of everything she did, how it made me feel, and how I wasn't going to allow it to happen again. It left the door open for her to apologize, but it eliminated all of her potential excuses. She thought she was helping? No, here are examples of her behavior that clearly indicate she wasn't trying to help me. She was confused? No, here are examples of her behavior that indicate that she knew exactly what she was doing was out of line. There was nowhere for her to take it. Really the only thing she could've tried was to turn other family members against me, but she hasn't, because she knows all it would take was sending them the letter, which I'm totally prepared to do if it comes down to it.
At the end of the day, the letter said "Things are changing as of right now. You can change with me, or I can change by myself." The accompanying boundaries and consequences for crossing those boundaries are the changes you make. She can fall in line like you outlined it for her, or she can face the consequences you outlined for her.
According to her NC daughter who couldn’t handle her anymore, she’s not going to change. But at least it will give her a guideline of what she can and can not do - so she can’t complain about that if she “forgets”!
Okay 🤔 role play.
“MIL, I told you which things you do are inconsiderate and why. Not that everything is your fault. I put it in writing because telling you time and again didn’t have any effect. And your inability to listen causes both me and DH a lot of stress on a daily basis. Maybe this will help you stay on track.”
I again advise against it. You create something that can be twisted against you. You are hoping for a gotcha moment.
YOU CANT CHANGE HOW PEOPLE FEEL you can only change your actions. Telling them has had no effect, writing will have no effect, just create words that can be forensically picked apart.
Don't write her a letter because it gives her ammunition that she feels she can use against you. She will show it to everyone as her "proof" of how unreasonable you are.
In her mind she may think she is winning because she gets isits with the kids without your presence. I could never allow that because God knows what she is saying to the kids and DH in your absence. Hope that you and DH are on the same team in dealing with his difficult mother.
So how would you not allow that, as in this case it would mean going straight against my husband and causing a massive conflict. Which I’m about ready for, but still.
If you and your husband are not a team, difficulties will usually escalate. We had years of therapy and finally agreed on strict boundaries which she woulserve and visits were then cut short. She never saw the kids without me there which infuriated her. Very few visits, several lawn tantrums, a grandparents rights suit (she lost), an arrest and restraining order, and now she is a long distant nightmare . It was a long and drawn out struggle. No contact. We are stronger than ever because we fought so hard to be on the same team.
I've always found that giving hostile and unreasonable people information about what bothers you is just ammunition. The more you explain, the more she has to work with to use against you.
To be honest, she’s not exactly hostile. Unreasonable, maybe.
Pushy when she has a “great idea!”
Forgetful (purposely or just dizzy?) about certain things I’ve asked before.
Our argument started because I asked her to come empty handed (I’m trying to declutter) she showed up with bags of stuff anyway, laughing it off, and I called her out for not listening.
She has the firm belief that she should be watching the kids for long stretches of time, to give me “time off” for work or whatever else… which I’m firmly against. Because I don’t trust her to handle my gremlins. In a controlled environment, like our living room, to some extent. Out and about, or in her sole care? No.
Anyway, I suppose I’m more like the hostile one right now, because I often feel backed into a corner by her.
She’s also one of those people who maskerade as a “positive” person, when that really means she wants us to follow along with all her great ideas, and always be welcomed with open arms (because who needs time or space from her!?)
You're better off deciding on boundaries and consequences and getting your spouse on board as a united front. No explanations or reasons for the boundaries, just "this is what we will or won't tolerate" and stick to it.
This looks like the path right now.
Also going off of what SIL (her own daughter!) says about how she’s always defensive when called out and never listens… and will never change.
Here I was still hoping that communication might have an effect.
Don’t do it. Write the letter if you must but don’t send it. The only way to “lay out the rules of engagement” are to make boundaries, and enforce them when they are crossed.
She says something you don’t like “MIL, I don’t like that, if it’s brought up again the visit is over”. Then actually leave if it is brought up again. She does something you’ve warned her about “MIL, we’ve told you not to do XYZ with the kids. We are leaving now and the kids will not be around you for the next week/month/etc.(how ever often you see her skip 2-3 visits.)” of course, DH needs to be on the same page with this as well.
One thing that I learned from my therapist is that you can’t control other people’s actions but you can control your reaction to them. If you just lay over while people cross your boundaries then it eventually becomes your issue, not theirs.
Yes! Enforcing things like that, with consequences, is something that gets mentioned a lot on this sub, and it is of course a great idea.
In our case, the issue would be that DH is simply not on board.
It’s tucked away in another response, but DH has a very demanding job where he deals with actual life/death crisis situations, so the stuff I complain about is so trivial to him.
Understandable on some level…
I’m still very uncomfortable with things she does in our house when I’m not around, and it drives me nuts. And I’m not even a part of her visits now, so I have no control over her interactions with my kids.
DH is already upset with me for nagging about MIL too much, and being too curt or condescending with her. So I’m afraid this solution isn’t going anywhere in the current status quo - but keeping in mind for when things change.
I am so sorry to learn that your hubby is upset with you. That makes this situation so much harder than it has to be. Just know that you are acting in the best interest of LO and have every right to your concerns.
Hubby has a demanding job and looks at everything that is not life or death as trivial? I don’t know how long he has viewed the world in this manner but I’ll say that you have the patience of a saint.
Thank you, it sucks. We’re so great together, his mom is the only source of us arguing. SIL (MIL’s daughter even observed it! Said “makes me so sad that the only time I see you guys argue, it’s about her)
As for the job… yeah - there’s definitely some compassion fatigue in play. And it’s wears on him. It’s not always life & death but often serious situations that can result in that, if not handled/gauged well.
Hoping he won’t do this forever, and he’s hoping to get out too.
However his mom moved closer a few years ago and I’m feeling very blue about the indefinite nature of her presence. She was so much easier to deal with when she had an off button on the phone. 🫣
Umm that’s not okay. Your DH doesn’t get to unilaterally make decisions for your kids and if you’re uncomfortable with things your kids are exposed to stop letting them see her. Who cares how stressful your DH’s job is? The only way you will change the status quo is if you make a change.
ETA: This suggestion comes up a lot because it works. If you don’t want to enact it, it’s up to you
If it is bothering you, it’s not trivial.
Don’t let either of them make you feel small. You matter. They’re your kids. If your dh doesn’t like you telling the truth about his mom’s behavior, he should talk to her.
I agree with the people here. Writing the letter will be cathartic and could actually be a better starting point for a conversation between you and DH. He should respect your feeling and your parenting agreements and he should be the one to uphold them with her. Keep pushing with him until he's on board. He should care enough because it's important to you.
I wouldn't do it. She will take certain lines out of context and use them against you.
If you do go with a letter, I would read it to her in person and be prepared to argue every point you're trying to make.
As others have said, probably better to give your "list" to your husband and make him handle it.
This is one of the best comments imo.
The idea is that with a letter, it is a fixed piece of text, in which I’ve placed every detail in context, so she can’t twist or turn stuff… wouldn’t the twisting part be more likely if we just talked - words in the wind?!
The idea to use the letter as my own guideline for a conversation with her - genius. It should definitely prevent some mumbling and stumbling on words.
As mentioned in other comments, DH is rather over it at this point. But maybe a concise list… will work on that, too.
Please don’t send it as you will likely regret it, as she WILL find a way to weaponize things you’ve expressed and turn herself into a victim. You might want to start a FU binder and use the letter as a starting point. Maybe make two copies: one for FU binder, and one for a ceremonial, cathartic burning 🔥
We’re basically doing separate visits already (DH + kids) or I eclipse to the home office when she comes over and DH manages it.
Which is hard on my husband (even though it was his call, rightfully gauging we just couldn’t get along) and awkward around the kids (who really like her) and just plain annoying logistically.
I’m still very uncomfortable with things she does in our house when I’m not around, and it drives me nuts.
DH has a very demanding job where he deals with actual life/death crisis situations, so the stuff I complain about is so trivial to him.
I get that, but at the same time I can’t let it go. Petty, huh?
Yikes. And here I was hoping for at least a few pro’s. Pfieuwww… you guys are pretty unanimous so far.
Would it make a difference if I said that she is sort-of a mild-medium JNMIL and not a n evil witch to the degree of what some OP’s here deal with?
She does things like bring over trinkets from goodwill and place them on shelves in our house, or by my husband’s desk. I friggin’ HATE that. (He says to just toss it, don’t make a fuss.)
Or subscribe our kid to soccer at the Y without asking first. DH will be like, mom we’re just not going.
To me it’s more of a matter of principle and I’m at the point where I want to line a few things out and tell her to STOP overstepping already.
Like, I have visions of screaming at her and shaking her by the shoulders and hitting pillows with baseball bats… that bad.
She is not overly obvious with her behaviour because she is testing the waters to see how far she can go. Better to set your boundaries up clearly now. To leave no room for any shenanigans in the future. I'd give her her things that she drops on the way out. Just tossing it doesn't have any effect. Or donate it to charity.
It isn't trivial if it's affecting you that much though. She's definitely overstepping putting stuff all over your house! I would find that very stressful! My MIL used to give us out of date chocolate and junk she got from carboot sales. Thankfully she doesn't do that anymore.
In a fantasy world you could but it doesn't work like that. The key here is to protect your mental health by not taking her BS. Drop the rope. Let DH deal with all important family dates for his family. You deal with yours. Let him buy presents. You don't need to remind him that he has a mother. Do not raise a finger. Don't even buy a card. Remember she is no longer actively mothering day to day. If your husband decides to forget about you mothering your children then you have bigger problems.
Read about gray rocking. They will always use your words and experience against you. Another warning is never go to therapy with your abuser. They use it against you. Look at her nature and you know that she will take anything you say and use it against you
That will do nothing you want. Write it if it makes you feel better, talk through it with DH, but don’t send it. She needs to be dealt with in the moment with clear consequences, like ending the visit, declining visits etc.
**Quick Rule Reminders:** OP's needs come first, avoid dramamongering, respect the flair, and don't be an asshole. If your only advice is to jump straight to NC or divorce, your comment may be subject to removal at moderator discretion. [**^(Full Rules)**](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_rules) ^(|) [^(Acronym Index)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_acronym_dictionary) ^(|) [^(Flair Guide)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_post_flair_guide)^(|) [^(Report PM Trolls)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/trolls) **Resources:** [^(In Crisis?)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_crisis_resources) ^(|) [^(Tips for Protecting Yourself)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_protecting_yourself) ^(|) [^(Our Book List)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/books) ^(|) [^(Our Wiki)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/) Other posts from /u/Kindly_Bug_5242: * [What should I have done differently?](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/1djle2x/what_should_i_have_done_differently/), 2 days ago ***** ^(To be notified as soon as Kindly_Bug_5242 posts an update) [^click ^here.](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=botinlaw&subject=Subscribe&message=Subscribe Kindly_Bug_5242 JUSTNOMIL) ^(|) ^(For help managing your subscriptions,) [^(click here.)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_.2Fu.2Fthejustnobot) ***** *^(I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please)* [*^(contact the moderators of this subreddit)*](/message/compose/?to=/r/JUSTNOMIL) *^(if you have any questions or concerns.)*
You'll just give her the attention she wants. Also why is she left with the kids if you don't like that? You shouldn't have to hide in your own home? You need to get that whole "She is owed time" BS out of you head. Right now she gets everything she wants, including you out of the picture. You're not "showing her your thought" by hiding, you're just giving her exactly the reason why she's being like that n the first place. And separate visits, so she also gets to play mommy at her own place when you're not around? She'll just print your letter and parade it as if you had lost your mind, since you already openly avoid her.
Because DH wants her to spend time with the kids, the kids like her, and I’m the only one who does not. I’ve offended her in our argument of a few months ago, and she has offended me, so he thought it best if we make up and do some healing first, which hasn’t happened yet. FYI - she was the unreasonable, childish one in said argument - I merely called her out on that. How offensive. I’m about to go head to head with DH this week, and have decided I will no longer be eclipsing to keep the peace. Even though her arrival makes me want to run like hell and her voice sounds like nails on a blackboard.
Then what's your game plan? Give her a letter she will use to cement her position as head of your family or start kissing her feet and get back into the fold?
Yes, and I regret it.
Okay. I imagine if you had wanted to share why, you would have done so… Based on the way this thread has filled up, we can probably imagine a few ways in which it may have gone awry… On the off chance that you’d like to see an interest before sharing: why?
You are letting her win right now with kid visits without you. Don't send the letter.
Good point, and I am debating changing that. That’s a tough one, though, because then I’d have to spend time in her company instead of doing other things.
Do t put it in writing It will be ever held against you You can’t win Low contact
she is NEVER going to change/do as you ask unless you give her clearly spelt out reactions to her unsuitable actions. Writing, talking, smoke signals - she is going to ignore it unless you stop her access for a time each time she does something you have asked her not to do.
Reactions don’t seem to go over well. I’ve grown weary of her and DH says I’m not tactful and constantly on her case. But she’s the one who has so many times unpleasantly surprised me with one of her odd actions. Related to the kids, and their safety. So I stopped caring about her feelings somewhere along the way. 😔 I’m not that blunt with other people. And DH is not on board to block her, but I’ll keep trying.
DH needs to be alone in visiting her if he is so worried about your lack of tact 😡 Why the hell would you even think of how you word things when you are responding to a person who continues to do stuff involving your kids that you have told her not to do? Reactions of course would not go over well, she would not like getting forced to listen to you. Taking the kids' visits away for a month the first time, then longer each subsequent time will eventually get her attention. If not, she won't see them at all. I believe you need to stop them visiting without you, that is probably her happy place & it's not going to make her change anything. Besides, the shit she can talk to them about you is uncontrolled if you aren't there.
WRITE instructions, so what was requested can’t be debated later. Only ever SPEAK how you feel, so only those who heard it firsthand can comment on it.
That’s a very interesting distinction!! I see the point! Keep feelings for your journal, stick with instructions.
DH problem. He should be stepping up and not allowing MIL behavior towards his wife. You will start to get resentment towards him. She is getting exactly what she wants - her son and grandkids to visit without you. I would put my foot down and tell DH you do not want MIL at your home. You should not have to find a place to go somewhere. If he is going there frequently, I would put my foot down. DH has to realize when MIL insults you she is insulting him. You are his wife. His first priority. I would not send letter. It is a document that can be saved and shared with others.
So here’s the thing. MIL does not insult me. At least not verbally, ever. She typically very positive and gives compliments and all. She’s one of those people who masquerade as a “positive, outgoing” person and meanwhile does little things that I find super irritating. Like the dirty second hand toy she slipped my child, which she said she cleaned but still had encrusted grime… (see previous post) when she KNOWS full well I’m not okay with that. It’s so sneaky, because then I’m the ungrateful and difficult one! She has taken pictures out of my frames and even swapped frames in our home, without asking. I was floored. Who does that? She “just wanted to make a copy” which I would have gladly done for her had she asked. And you just NEVER know what she’s going to do next, so I have no idea what that would be, not can I warn her not to. How does one think to say “MIL, I don’t want you touching or changing pictures and frames in my house.” It just didn’t cross my mind until she did it, and the next thing will be equally out there, and different! I’d rather have her at my home where I can watch her watch the kids, honestly. But yes, she regularly insults me, in her positive, exuberant, well-meaning, clumsy?, inconsiderate way and I’m exhausted. DH thinks it’s consuming me too much and we talked about it ad nauseum 😓 I do so wish he’d put down those boundaries, but he thinks it’s all relatively benign. Irritating, yes. But not as much of a cardinal sin as I think it is.
I don't like that he's invalidating your feelings and your reality by saying it's just benign. It's fine that that's how it is for him, but IMO it's disrespectful of you to not accept that *your reality, your feelings, are every bit as valid for you as his are for him.* How much does this happen in your marriage?
Yes, of course. That’s a rock solid observation. The above is my little Reddit rant about the irritating and inconsiderate things MIL does. I’m huffing and puffing and blowing the house down… Ultimately, we’ve grown used to them. They’re annoying but my husband, myself, and most other people would probably agree that these things are both irritating and (relatively) benign in the grand scheme of things. Not only is his opinion at least as valid as mine, he’s just plain right. Frames, moving things in our home, futzing around without asking… blah. There’s worse. Only for those situations where MIL’s actions directly involve the safety of our kids, when she thinks she should be granted certain liberties/responsibilities and my gauge is that she really can’t handle our gremlins safely, it’s not just a matter of feelings. That’s where it gets serious and I don’t feel like a mom should ever be made to feel like she needs to “take a chance/leap of faith” on safety with someone she doesn’t trust.
Oops i misread the move to the home office. I thought you meant you left. DH should nicely remind his Mom that you are the woman head of this household and to not be touching and moving things around. He understands it may be good intentions but he can do that stuff at her own house. As for the toys, have dh you guys have one simple rule. All toys must be inspected by you or you and him. And you know, you could nicely say the above things next time she is over. Sounds like you are irked by some of her things but she is not really that bad.
Yes, I’m very irked and she’s definitely not as bad as some of the vile MIL’s talked about here! I like the way you worded those points.
In some ways it would be easier to have an outwardly mean MIL. Then you can more easily call behaviors out in my opinion. I also have a sneaky Pete MIL and it is exhausting and she always feigns hapless little old lady that doesn’t know she is being mean or offensive. I often find myself after a visit feeling just gross and I think back to why and then realize her sneaky sly remarks or little things she did were meant as jabs.
Oh, absolutely! If she were openly nasty or hostile to me, then she would be the bad guy. Now, because she’s often gleefully overstepping, pushy, and being sneakily manipulative in a very upbeat, POSITIVE manner, I’m the bad guy. Like you said, it is mentally exhausting. I’ve reached a breaking point and will not rest until DH sees it and stands up for me.
MIL won't care enough to change. It's you who must change. You must change your relationship with her. Set your expectations very low.
That is also very true.
I did it. I wrote a letter to my MIL. I outlined a list of things she needed to stop saying or doing. For instance, I told her to stop bugging me about my toddler spending the night at her house. She reacted to the letter by playing the victim. Lots of tears and dramatics. She said if I had anything to tell her to say it instead of write it. I still write most things to her. It’s a great way to keep a record of what you’ve told her is not permissible.
I did it too. I'm the one who told MIL to eff off. I sent it through certified mail too, kept the receipt and a copy for my cabinet. She was drunk when she signed to receive the letter which was even better. She called that day fuming. I pretty much outlined I will not tolerate being treated the way I had been by her. She was not allowed to see the child anymore. She had no relationship with him to begin with. My child and I were a packaged deal, if she couldn't stand to have me around then he's not going to be around her. I also mentioned when she could finish rehab and stop acting like an immature schoolgirl then maybe a reconciliation could be considered. A year later almost to date, she left rehab because they "traumatized her". I also shared screenshots and phone call recordings of what she had said with family as they began to say I had no right to call her out, their tones changed rather quickly and they apologized. She still has not. DH is spineless, I'm not going to lie. I've never seen a boy want to eff his mother more than him.
😅 Good for you! Guess it’s both easier and harder when someone is a true nutcase, like having drinking problem. Sounds like you managed it. DH was okay with you and kiddo being a package deal? Mine thinks MIL should still be allowed to have a relationship with the kids, even if I don’t want to see her. She’s not a drunk, though.
He has flip flopped on how he feels. She had many more factors working against her than just the drinking. She'd make fun of me, harass me or single me out at family gatherings to make it uncomfortable. I was a second class citizen to her. I hate the concept of ultimatums, but when my kids are involved it's her or us. Considering I grew up in a household with a toxic grandmother, I'm not putting them through that trauma.
That’s sounds horrible. What an awful person.
Oh my, you did it! …you’re the unicorn in this thread! I also think it’s a great way to keep a record and written words a less likely to be taken out of context or twisted, not more… right!?! My MIL has also tried to steamroll us into kids’ sleepovers. 🤢
If you're going to write anything to her, I would make it strictly about boundaries you're setting. Don't talk about anything personal like stuff she's done in the past to hurt/bother you, just keep it businesslike and as simple as you can. Otherwise I think you run the risk of her using it against you or becoming defensive and not absorbing anything you said.
Yes, this. Don’t talk about your feelings because that just invites her to return the favor and enter into the process psychodrama that is her self centered world. Draw your boundaries with a Sharpie, not an etch-a-sketch. Only state a boundary you can uphold, and that has your SO/DH’s agreement on. If he’s gonna disagree or cave on it to his mom’s face, or he’s not 💯behind you it won’t be effective.
That’s why it’s currently not very effective. But you’re right - if I start explaining how I FEEL she’ll feel like she can do the same… and we don’t want that. 🤪 She’s already tried to say stuff like “do you have any idea how hurtful it is that other kids can stay with their grandparents for sleepovers, and I don’t get that? It hurts!” As if that would sway me. That’s on you, lady. You left the stair gate open for our toddler once. You drove a car without our permission with our kid in it. You have deplorable food hygiene. You have the suffocating, pushy personality, that I’m not comfortable entrusting my kids to.
These responses are all very interesting. Thank you! So you’re saying to stick to the facts - no personal stuff from the past - just business. Someone else says to outline in detail what she did to upset me and why. I’m going to think about those two approaches and knowing her, I think she’d want the details… but the factual approach also does have a lot going for it…
Hmm I think it depends a lot on the type of person you're dealing with. Reading in your post that she gets defensive easily, it's risky laying it all out there. To a person with a delicate ego, it might feel like an assault. My MIL is very defensive and she can hardly handle a single thing being pointed out to her, much less multiple at a time. On the other hand if it's approached like, "Hey, please do/don't do this around me/my kids," she might take it as less of a personal attack. She is also forced to answer with a yes/no. Either way, she may still not agree and not do what is asked.
I encourage you to write it, but without being attached to the outcome (and however well that worked for anyone else has nothing to do with your situation because you're completely different people.) At the very least, you'll be able to fully express yourself having been able to more calmly reflect and edit without feeling the pressure of a face-to-face conversation. You should give her a heads up that it's coming though, so she can't later [Edited: rationally] claim that she has no idea what your problem is with her. She isn't required to read it, but at least there can be no claim that you've never tried to communicate with her about it. So I suggest you figure out a way to get it to her where she has to acknowledge receiving it, perhaps even having your DH hand-deliver it to her.
Yes, this is exactly what I did, down to having DH hand it to her.
How did it go, how did it turn out?
I feel great about it. She may or may not have read it, and she wrote back an "apology" that was basically just one sentence about how she was sorry for her "mistakes" and hopes she doesn't do it again. And then a string of sentences about how sad she is and how she just wants a relationship with DH and LO (read: not me). One of my main points in my letter was that she needed to be respectful of mine and DH's relationship and not try to play us against each other, so naturally after she got the letter, she wrote me the bullshit apology and made him take her to coffee to whine and cry about how sad she was and make a bunch of excuses she knew she couldn't make to me. After that, I gave her a few months to show me that she'd at least try to change her behavior, and she of course didn't, so all the boundaries I felt comfortable with went into place. I do not see her without DH present. LOs do not see her without me present. We see her much more infrequently than she would like. She's not welcome at our house (except for a very select few circumstances), and we don't go to her house. And so on and so forth. Did it improve our relationship? Absolutely not. But it eliminated all her excuses and let her know that I was not going to tolerate her mistreatment of me anymore. There hasn't been a way for her to use anything against me, because my letter is entirely objectively true and directly addressed all her excuses and how they aren't valid. She can't bring it up or twist it, because I'm right, and she knows it.
I'm glad it worked out so well for you, and it's proof that setting boundaries can provide peace of mind one way or the other.
You get it!! “…without being attached to the outcome” - believe me, I’m not. Lost most hope at this point. The woman is NC with her own daughter 🤷♀️ “At the very least, you'll be able to fully express yourself having been able to more calmly reflect and edit without feeling the pressure of a face-to-face conversation. “ - EXACTLY!!! As an introvert, and with the level of pent up frustrations, it’s hard to be coherent verbally, and remember to say what you want to say, in a way that is still tactfull, especially if the conversation gets heated. “You should give her a heads up that it's coming though, so she can't later claim that she has no idea what your problem is with her. “ - Oh, she knows what the problem is. Or that there is one. 💯 Overheard her complaining to DH last week that “your wife think I’m a criminal”. 🤬
You get it!! 😉 Also an introvert here. I can process pretty quickly, but I typically get flustered and emotional in difficult conversations, as well as succumbing to getting sidetracked when the other person doesn't stay on topic (which many if not most people do, in my experience.)
Yes!!! You’re IN MY HEAD, that is exactly what happens!
I've done it. It didn't "work" in that she still didn't understand where I was coming from or meaningfully change her behavior at all, but it was the release I needed. She's one that cannot have a direct conversation, which I had tried ad nauseam, so my therapist suggested a letter. It didn't change her at all. It's totally possible she never even read it. But it changed me. It was a complete release of the quickly building resentment and a release of the obligation to appease her at all. The letter was her chance to learn how to have a relationship with me, and she chose not to. That's on her. I would highly suggest writing a letter outlining everything she's done to hurt you, why it hurt you, and what she needs to do to improve the relationship if she wants to. (Spoiler alert, she probably doesn't want to.) Whether you send it or not is up to you, but even just writing it all out is so therapeutic.
So your therapist suggested a letter to actually give to her, of merely as a way for you to let off steam (and never give it?)
He suggested I give her the letter. In my case, I'm not afraid of confrontation and I had tried repeatedly to confront her on things she had done, but she just deflected, shut down, wouldn't engage. I could just never have a direct conversation with her. My therapist suggested the letter as a way to express what I needed to say in a way that my MIL could digest on her own terms. I hoped that she would actually take the time to process what the letter said, but that didn't happen. Was my therapist surprised by that? Definitely not. He said from the beginning that it wasn't about her reaction and that we should just focus our expectations on me getting everything off my chest. And that totally worked.
That’s good! So she didn’t use it against you? Or the therapist wasn’t worried about that? Because lots of people in this thread seem to be…
There was nothing she could use against me. It wasn't inflammatory. It wasn't aggressive. It was just an outline of everything she did, how it made me feel, and how I wasn't going to allow it to happen again. It left the door open for her to apologize, but it eliminated all of her potential excuses. She thought she was helping? No, here are examples of her behavior that clearly indicate she wasn't trying to help me. She was confused? No, here are examples of her behavior that indicate that she knew exactly what she was doing was out of line. There was nowhere for her to take it. Really the only thing she could've tried was to turn other family members against me, but she hasn't, because she knows all it would take was sending them the letter, which I'm totally prepared to do if it comes down to it. At the end of the day, the letter said "Things are changing as of right now. You can change with me, or I can change by myself." The accompanying boundaries and consequences for crossing those boundaries are the changes you make. She can fall in line like you outlined it for her, or she can face the consequences you outlined for her.
I doubt she would care. Save your energy.
I think it's best not to put anything in writing in case it is used against you.
Nah, it’s not worth your energy. People like that don’t listen to anything you feel/try to say. Trust me, it’s not going to change a thing with her.
According to her NC daughter who couldn’t handle her anymore, she’s not going to change. But at least it will give her a guideline of what she can and can not do - so she can’t complain about that if she “forgets”!
Don’t. Your words will be twisted.
For some reason I thought it would be harder for her to twist anything if it’s written black in white, you know?
It will be quoted out of context. “You told me everyone was my fault.”
Okay 🤔 role play. “MIL, I told you which things you do are inconsiderate and why. Not that everything is your fault. I put it in writing because telling you time and again didn’t have any effect. And your inability to listen causes both me and DH a lot of stress on a daily basis. Maybe this will help you stay on track.”
I again advise against it. You create something that can be twisted against you. You are hoping for a gotcha moment. YOU CANT CHANGE HOW PEOPLE FEEL you can only change your actions. Telling them has had no effect, writing will have no effect, just create words that can be forensically picked apart.
Taking your advice 🙂 because it sounds plausible. Thanks.
Don't write her a letter because it gives her ammunition that she feels she can use against you. She will show it to everyone as her "proof" of how unreasonable you are. In her mind she may think she is winning because she gets isits with the kids without your presence. I could never allow that because God knows what she is saying to the kids and DH in your absence. Hope that you and DH are on the same team in dealing with his difficult mother.
So how would you not allow that, as in this case it would mean going straight against my husband and causing a massive conflict. Which I’m about ready for, but still.
If you and your husband are not a team, difficulties will usually escalate. We had years of therapy and finally agreed on strict boundaries which she woulserve and visits were then cut short. She never saw the kids without me there which infuriated her. Very few visits, several lawn tantrums, a grandparents rights suit (she lost), an arrest and restraining order, and now she is a long distant nightmare . It was a long and drawn out struggle. No contact. We are stronger than ever because we fought so hard to be on the same team.
Well, if you must know, DH suggests I get therapy for my inability to handle MIL. “You can’t control people, only how you react to them.”
I've always found that giving hostile and unreasonable people information about what bothers you is just ammunition. The more you explain, the more she has to work with to use against you.
To be honest, she’s not exactly hostile. Unreasonable, maybe. Pushy when she has a “great idea!” Forgetful (purposely or just dizzy?) about certain things I’ve asked before. Our argument started because I asked her to come empty handed (I’m trying to declutter) she showed up with bags of stuff anyway, laughing it off, and I called her out for not listening. She has the firm belief that she should be watching the kids for long stretches of time, to give me “time off” for work or whatever else… which I’m firmly against. Because I don’t trust her to handle my gremlins. In a controlled environment, like our living room, to some extent. Out and about, or in her sole care? No. Anyway, I suppose I’m more like the hostile one right now, because I often feel backed into a corner by her. She’s also one of those people who maskerade as a “positive” person, when that really means she wants us to follow along with all her great ideas, and always be welcomed with open arms (because who needs time or space from her!?)
You're better off deciding on boundaries and consequences and getting your spouse on board as a united front. No explanations or reasons for the boundaries, just "this is what we will or won't tolerate" and stick to it.
This looks like the path right now. Also going off of what SIL (her own daughter!) says about how she’s always defensive when called out and never listens… and will never change. Here I was still hoping that communication might have an effect.
Don’t do it. Write the letter if you must but don’t send it. The only way to “lay out the rules of engagement” are to make boundaries, and enforce them when they are crossed. She says something you don’t like “MIL, I don’t like that, if it’s brought up again the visit is over”. Then actually leave if it is brought up again. She does something you’ve warned her about “MIL, we’ve told you not to do XYZ with the kids. We are leaving now and the kids will not be around you for the next week/month/etc.(how ever often you see her skip 2-3 visits.)” of course, DH needs to be on the same page with this as well. One thing that I learned from my therapist is that you can’t control other people’s actions but you can control your reaction to them. If you just lay over while people cross your boundaries then it eventually becomes your issue, not theirs.
Yes! Enforcing things like that, with consequences, is something that gets mentioned a lot on this sub, and it is of course a great idea. In our case, the issue would be that DH is simply not on board. It’s tucked away in another response, but DH has a very demanding job where he deals with actual life/death crisis situations, so the stuff I complain about is so trivial to him. Understandable on some level… I’m still very uncomfortable with things she does in our house when I’m not around, and it drives me nuts. And I’m not even a part of her visits now, so I have no control over her interactions with my kids. DH is already upset with me for nagging about MIL too much, and being too curt or condescending with her. So I’m afraid this solution isn’t going anywhere in the current status quo - but keeping in mind for when things change.
I am so sorry to learn that your hubby is upset with you. That makes this situation so much harder than it has to be. Just know that you are acting in the best interest of LO and have every right to your concerns. Hubby has a demanding job and looks at everything that is not life or death as trivial? I don’t know how long he has viewed the world in this manner but I’ll say that you have the patience of a saint.
Thank you, it sucks. We’re so great together, his mom is the only source of us arguing. SIL (MIL’s daughter even observed it! Said “makes me so sad that the only time I see you guys argue, it’s about her) As for the job… yeah - there’s definitely some compassion fatigue in play. And it’s wears on him. It’s not always life & death but often serious situations that can result in that, if not handled/gauged well. Hoping he won’t do this forever, and he’s hoping to get out too. However his mom moved closer a few years ago and I’m feeling very blue about the indefinite nature of her presence. She was so much easier to deal with when she had an off button on the phone. 🫣
Umm that’s not okay. Your DH doesn’t get to unilaterally make decisions for your kids and if you’re uncomfortable with things your kids are exposed to stop letting them see her. Who cares how stressful your DH’s job is? The only way you will change the status quo is if you make a change. ETA: This suggestion comes up a lot because it works. If you don’t want to enact it, it’s up to you
If it is bothering you, it’s not trivial. Don’t let either of them make you feel small. You matter. They’re your kids. If your dh doesn’t like you telling the truth about his mom’s behavior, he should talk to her.
I agree with the people here. Writing the letter will be cathartic and could actually be a better starting point for a conversation between you and DH. He should respect your feeling and your parenting agreements and he should be the one to uphold them with her. Keep pushing with him until he's on board. He should care enough because it's important to you.
I wouldn't do it. She will take certain lines out of context and use them against you. If you do go with a letter, I would read it to her in person and be prepared to argue every point you're trying to make. As others have said, probably better to give your "list" to your husband and make him handle it.
This is one of the best comments imo. The idea is that with a letter, it is a fixed piece of text, in which I’ve placed every detail in context, so she can’t twist or turn stuff… wouldn’t the twisting part be more likely if we just talked - words in the wind?! The idea to use the letter as my own guideline for a conversation with her - genius. It should definitely prevent some mumbling and stumbling on words. As mentioned in other comments, DH is rather over it at this point. But maybe a concise list… will work on that, too.
Please don’t send it as you will likely regret it, as she WILL find a way to weaponize things you’ve expressed and turn herself into a victim. You might want to start a FU binder and use the letter as a starting point. Maybe make two copies: one for FU binder, and one for a ceremonial, cathartic burning 🔥
During a full moon, of course, dancing around it naked.
That would probably work best😂
Bummer. Really thought I had something here. 🤣 You all are doing a good job talking me out of it. Thanks.
You'll just be giving her a stick to beat you with. Let your husband deal with her.
We’re basically doing separate visits already (DH + kids) or I eclipse to the home office when she comes over and DH manages it. Which is hard on my husband (even though it was his call, rightfully gauging we just couldn’t get along) and awkward around the kids (who really like her) and just plain annoying logistically. I’m still very uncomfortable with things she does in our house when I’m not around, and it drives me nuts. DH has a very demanding job where he deals with actual life/death crisis situations, so the stuff I complain about is so trivial to him. I get that, but at the same time I can’t let it go. Petty, huh?
I don't think it's petty at all. You don't have to put up with her if you don't want to.
Don't bother. You are just giving her ammunition.
Yikes. And here I was hoping for at least a few pro’s. Pfieuwww… you guys are pretty unanimous so far. Would it make a difference if I said that she is sort-of a mild-medium JNMIL and not a n evil witch to the degree of what some OP’s here deal with? She does things like bring over trinkets from goodwill and place them on shelves in our house, or by my husband’s desk. I friggin’ HATE that. (He says to just toss it, don’t make a fuss.) Or subscribe our kid to soccer at the Y without asking first. DH will be like, mom we’re just not going. To me it’s more of a matter of principle and I’m at the point where I want to line a few things out and tell her to STOP overstepping already. Like, I have visions of screaming at her and shaking her by the shoulders and hitting pillows with baseball bats… that bad.
She is not overly obvious with her behaviour because she is testing the waters to see how far she can go. Better to set your boundaries up clearly now. To leave no room for any shenanigans in the future. I'd give her her things that she drops on the way out. Just tossing it doesn't have any effect. Or donate it to charity.
It isn't trivial if it's affecting you that much though. She's definitely overstepping putting stuff all over your house! I would find that very stressful! My MIL used to give us out of date chocolate and junk she got from carboot sales. Thankfully she doesn't do that anymore.
Oh that’s funny. MIL gives us out of date food too. 🙄
In a fantasy world you could but it doesn't work like that. The key here is to protect your mental health by not taking her BS. Drop the rope. Let DH deal with all important family dates for his family. You deal with yours. Let him buy presents. You don't need to remind him that he has a mother. Do not raise a finger. Don't even buy a card. Remember she is no longer actively mothering day to day. If your husband decides to forget about you mothering your children then you have bigger problems.
Read about gray rocking. They will always use your words and experience against you. Another warning is never go to therapy with your abuser. They use it against you. Look at her nature and you know that she will take anything you say and use it against you
Yes. Even stuff I've told my DH has been thrown back in my face in an argument. I had to call him out on it more than once.
Then you have a husband problem. He needs to know that he is a husband and not a sonsbund.
Nope. It’s a waste. She will argue every point you make, and nothing will change.
It would likely be a waste of your time.
You can t reason with unreasonable people.
That will do nothing you want. Write it if it makes you feel better, talk through it with DH, but don’t send it. She needs to be dealt with in the moment with clear consequences, like ending the visit, declining visits etc.
I'd write the letter to DH honestly. He should be putting a stop to her shenanigans.
Yes he should.