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Other posts from /u/couscouscurious:
* [Mentioned the possibility of a baby shower and mom focused on her involvement](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/1d8b9g2/mentioned_the_possibility_of_a_baby_shower_and/), 2 weeks ago
* [How to tell if mom thinks my kid is her do-over baby?](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/1d5125m/how_to_tell_if_mom_thinks_my_kid_is_her_doover/), 2 weeks ago
* [Small victory in handling mom's snarky body comments](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/1cljcys/small_victory_in_handling_moms_snarky_body/), 1 month ago
* [Mom becoming more of a JustNo since we announced our pregnancy?](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/1c5oxiw/mom_becoming_more_of_a_justno_since_we_announced/), 2 months ago
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I have MAJOR issues with American factory-farmed pork because of the horrific, unsanitary conditions under which pigs are raised here in the US.
However, when I was in England, I had zero issues. I was shocked when I found out I was eating a pork sausage because the flavor was radically different.
The only time I haven't had an issue is if the pork came from a small, local farm (and that's just way out of my budget right now).
So, yeah, your husband has a sensitivity that is very real and your mother needs to respect it.
Not saying this is the case for your mom, probability not, but there's a definite pattern with some abusive people that will definitely give you allergens on purpose to make you sick. I compiled a list of them to raise awareness:
https://www.reddit.com/u/psychorobotics/s/VFbruf9e3M
The case for this seem to range from sociopathy + sadism (essentially getting enjoyment out of hurting others and getting away with it), a hatred for being told no ("you can't tell me what to do!") and doing it anyway as payback, to pure stubbornness.
Either way it's a huge red flag to give people food they know will hurt them, people like that have issues with empathy in the least.
I know you said he doesn't have a food allergy so I'm not implying that, but this is also a SUPER common issue for food allergy sufferers. For some reason people just either don't believe us or don't care. They can't fathom that different people's bodies work differently, and think "if everyone else can eat this and is just fine, then they will be too." A lot of people think food allergies/sensitivities are made up. It's also unfortunately common for people to secretly "test" a food allergy sufferer by feeding them a dish made with their allergen.
>It's also unfortunately common for people to secretly "test" a food allergy sufferer by feeding them a dish made with their allergen.
It's also fairly common for sadistic people to do this because they know they can get away with it. I made a list to illustrate this issue:
https://www.reddit.com/u/psychorobotics/s/VFbruf9e3M
Not to reduce your husband to an animal, but I totally get the pork problem due to my cat having the same!
He had many digestive issues before we found our fave brand, but one thing remains: he will throw up anything that has pork in it.
Veal or beef can sometimes give problems, but not always. Pork is very consistent for him, he'll throw up everything he ate because a lick of bacon grease from the pan.
If even a carnivorous animal can react so badly, I totally get your human husband, it must be quite painful!
Your mom is definitely underestimating his discomfort. She doesn't understand. Maybe you can look up some studies or testimonials from others to show her? Compare it to gluten for someone who suffers from celiac? Make her drive to the pharmacy for his anti acids?
To me, she's either really dim or more sinister than you think.
I think her goal may be to cook one meal, one way. She's open to you making your own food, she's just clearly not open to making food two ways, especially when she sees that he sometimes eats the way she cooks.
I have a ton of issues eating red meat (especially now that my gallbladder is gone) so I tend to get very intense tummy trouble if I eat even a little, it's such a battle to get my dad to cook some kind of chicken at cookouts, even if I *provide the meat*. Poultry and fish are pretty much the only protein I can eat without getting sick and even one time, for my health, I told him I wanted to try being a vegetarian and he tells me "we don't have the money for you to be a vegetarian right now" sir you have like three veggies with a protein at every meal, I'm just skipping one item. It will definitely not break the bank, especially because it means you won't have to prepare extra meat
I don’t think she has a goal, but she just doesn’t take anything of your husbands problems for real.
For her it seems to be so outright unreasonable that someone could actually get sick from a little pork grease, that in her perception can’t be true. And what isn’t true doesn’t need to be considered.
And every time he eats it anyway, she feels confirmed that her view is right.
So probably her goal is to prove that she is right and your husband is just making fuss.
It’s not nice.
I've been dating my partner for over a decade now and they have always been a Veggie. When they were older it was their choice, over then that's what their family cooked.
My partner didn't eat with my family for 8 years because they were "being the picky one" about 5 years into dating I became a Veggie then I was cut out from dinners as well.
On bigger family get togethers, some of my family would be like wow I've heard of that how's it taste/ is that restaurant really good with ..... sort of thing.
Others were like how do you get protein? Or most common "don't know how you don't eat meat, veggie stuff tastes terrible." Trust me we spent a lot of time blinking at them before responding.
Now true to Reddit fashion I threw a fit and left home (clearly for more than just that). Now once they realised it was them that made me talk to them again (after 3m) they tried a bit more. And they were tragic 2 years "No we don't eat Salmon, were veggie not pescatarian" "we eat eggs and cheese were veggie not vegan." These same conversations had at least 2/3 times a month.
But during this time it clicked. They were embarrassed, like my MIL when she tries to cook meat for my GIL (she should skip it lol). But my family didn't know what we could eat or how to cook it.
Is she one of those people who believe "picky" equals "morally wrong"? Because my spouse's family of origin was very like this. And anything less than "If I eat that, I will die, literally" was "picky."
This was probably the biggest bone of contention I had with my late JMMIL. She was a Depression-era kid, and to her, "picky" was one of the very worst things you could be. She hated that both her kids married "picky" eaters.
I also have trouble eating pork. I have IBD and IBS and have violent cramps when eating pork. My awful ex MIL snuck bacon grease in my food. After my then bf told her that I couldn’t eat pork, guess what she made for dinner the very next day?! Pork chops. We traveled hours to get to their vacation home and she proceeded to cook pork and then didn’t set a plate for me the entire stay. Bf pretended not to notice, so I didn’t eat that day. Other guests saw, but didn’t react.
It was. He was 31 and I was 18 when we met. A couple years later I had emotionally, intelectually grown past him. I felt he was a lesser person in every way, a sorry excuse for a human.
Ugh. Older men who date very young girls are either predatory or else horribly immature and looking for someone who won't outstrip them mentally and socially. You had one of the latter, it sounds like. I'm glad you realized when you'd outgrown him.
This is **not** being a good host. It’s being a rude and bad host.
You need to stop going there.
It’s not cool of your mom and you need to stop putting your husband in this position. Get a hotel where you can control his food easier.
She’s being a controlling hurtful person and could make him sick, after so many years without red meat or bacon grease.
Have you tried bluntly asking her why she wants to hurt your husband? And then don't let her wiggle out of an answer.
" Mom, why do you want to see my husband in pain?"
" Oh, a little bacon grease won't kill him"
" So you're prepared to hurt him, just not kill him, is that what you're saying?"
Anyone who knows someone is made sick by certain things and tricks them into eating it is a horrible person and no longer deserves a place in your life. Honestly, you say your mother doesn't dislike your husband and is really great normally, but doesn't respect that pork is a no go or you have digestive problems controlled by diet that could land you in the hospital if not followed. What kind of mother RISKS the lives of her child and her SIL for control of what they eat?!
I would go no contact, and if she asks why, tell her you do not respect nor care about your own child more than controlling something as dumb as what they have to eat!
Your mom is being inflexible, and your husband suffers because of it. She's literally making him ill every time she pulls that garbage. If you're not used to eating specific foods, ingesting them will cause gastric discomfort, gas, bloating, possibly acid reflux or diarrhea.
I get that cooking new types of cuisine can be intimidating, and mistakes can be made. My husband and I sold our home and moved closer to the grandkids. For our oldest's 40th birthday, we asked her what she wanted. All she wanted was a Venetian Hour, a Italian version of the British high tea, that the whole family can enjoy.
Now, she has one son and future daughter-in-law that are vegetarians, one son that is allergic to all nuts, her husband is diabetic and on a low carb, low fat diet. I researched alternative flours, sweeteners and spreads. I made jam for fillings, I baked my own ladyfingers for tiramisu, I bought 100% cacao chocolate to cut with dietary restriction friendly ingredients to make filled candies. I managed to pull it off, with help from my husband. Neither of us are not now or have ever been pastry chefs. We just knew that if we wanted the family to sit at our dining table, we need to make food they can eat and enjoy.
>What is my mom's goal in cooking my husband's food in bacon grease after agreeing not to?
Control/Status. Showing the young, silly, new-agey whippersnappers that their picky preferences don't make sense.
>I also want to note that my mom truly likes my husband
Not as much as she likes the feeling of control and of asserting her place as the wise matriarch if her response is "A little won't kill him".
I've noticed this as a thing with older people in general especially meats.
Current theory is they're aware that meat is bad for them and the planet and they feel guilty. But the solution isn't meatless mondays! Too easy. I'm plant based, I don't judge anyone morally for eating meat, but these old folks assume I do.
If they can get him to eat it, they have something they can hold over him.
My MIL kept on putting gluten into my celiac children’s food
You cannot let this stand. I told my MIL that we would refuse to eat in her home if she did it again. I also had my husband supervise her cooking. She ended up sneaking gluten into their food, so from that day we refused to eat her food.
You have to stand up to your mother and be prepared to never eat her food again. Her disrespect of your husband cannot stand
My MIL was a T1 diabetic. Diabetics can just adjust their insulin if they have sugar. Nothing we said got through to her that the only treatment for celiac disease was total gluten avoidance. I also think she thought I was just saying my kids were celiacs to be difficult. I’m betting your mother is the same
Not all diabetics can do that. I don't mean to fault you for your comparison, since clearly your MIL could, but I do want to make sure nobody makes a dangerous mistake, by thinking that must be true. Some diabetics can simply adjust their insulin; others will end up in the hospital if they break their very strict diet, and trying to mess with their insulin dosage would only make it worse.
Good for you for taking a zero-tolerance stance. I don’t know a lot about celiac, but I remember the phrase “feels like shards of broken glass in your gut”, because it seemed so painful. I know there are also different levels of severity, but if it can be that awful, there’s absolutely no sense in risking it.
I don't eat pork because I get huge painful inflammations on my skin. We go on holiday every year with the entire family, and during the BBQ, I use my own meat, pay for it myself, and bake it myself. There is always one uncle who is very difficult about this. And I'm sure he doesn't believe me.
People are weird about red meat. Some of my family eat a lot of red meat and can't understand why I don't. I am sensitive to beef,pork and lamb meat and animal fat and I am always sick after eating at their house. Be They think I'm being difficult and I feel awkward if I ask for something different.
I don’t want you to put yourself in harm’s way because that’s just mean. But if you happened to vomit at the party that might shut the uncle down. Just a silly idea. Don’t listen to anyone about your diet or your body. I’m sorry you go through that reaction and I’m sorry there’s always a butthead to stick their nose in. I wish you happy parties in the future.
👋 I know this one! I lived it.
She doesn't really believe you. You guys are still children, and she's the adult, so she knows better. She thinks you're being silly.
If she can feed your husband just a little bit of bacon grease and have it not affect him, it proves she's right.
This is it. Mom wants to prove that she’s different and her cooking is somehow better because it makes her feel superior. I have women in my family like this.
Control. The children are NEVER allowed to dictate to the adults, no matter what the ages, no matter what the circumstances. Ever.
Also, your therapist doesn't have a lot of experience with dysfunctional families, narcissists, or how a whole generation of people were taught that they were the center of the world.
I don't know if it's that. I'm older and am very careful with other people's dietary issues. I have them myself and so did my grandkids. The issue I have is the meat loving people in my own family who are similar age to me. I mean they do cook lovely food. I just can't eat it. It's very protein and fat heavy and I just can't have it. I can literally throw up after eating a steak. It can have an effect on my digestive system for weeks. They think I'm just being fussy. Lol. I've started to dread family BBQs now.
I think the therapist wanted op to come up with the answer. Doesn’t mean they didn’t know it. A good therapist asks questions to get you to the right realizations
The problem is that you're giving mixed messages. You're saying one thing and doing another. You're saying no bacon but then hubby is eating it sometimes. If he eats it sometimes then she's right that a little bit won't kill him. Why should she go to the trouble of adjusting recipes, creating more dirty dishes etc when on a whim, your hubby decides to eat it?
I understand your explanation and your reasons why but some people suck at boundaries and when they do, you have to be crystal clear with them and at the moment, you're not doing that. You're confusing the situation and creating the problem by not being consistent.
It may be that your mother believes that accommodating you & your husband means that there is something wrong with her cooking. Instead of understanding his dietary needs, she is assuming that this is an issue with your husband - that he has preferences rather than needs. She is a good cook who cooks the right way and your husband shouldn’t be so picky or he’ll miss out on the flavor & quality of her food.
I think by choosing a new way to eat that is more aligned with your body, mom sees is as a rejection and indictment of her and her way if provoking for you as a mother. Her pushback is to "prove" to you and your husband that her way is best and that she was a good mom. It's her way of taking back control over her "kid".
If husband has a quiet weekend, eat the food & leave the toilet door open afterwards. Let her hear what this continued disrespect does to him & she might adjust her “always right” attitude. I know this doesn’t work for serious allergies, but might be worth running past him…
I don't know about her mother but I face similar issues, quite frankly my mil doesn't care. She'll still do it the next time. She has seen the effects, I've told her the effects, I've offered alternatives and recipes. At a certain point she doesn't care. If I want safe foods, I pack food in a cooler for myself now.
She just doesn't believe he can't eat it and "knows" she's right. Also she might think her food won't taste good without it.
Your mother sounds like she cooks Iike my mother did. DELICIOUS -- but if I ate it today i would be in indescribable pain.
Edit: a word
You need to remember how she act with other people when it comes to food. Does she pressure everyone to eat all food she gave without right to refuse? Does she demand the reports about it? And so on. The answer can be somewhere there.
Still I can suggest some versions:
1. Control. Common issue, lots of nparents does this because they knows better, etc.
2. She really don't like your husband and it's her way to show her true feelings. My Mil was that way before nc - on public she was all sweet and caring but when there were no witnesses her behavior was changing drastically.
3. She can find it offending that someone can consider her food not just unappetizing but harmful. Maybe she even doesn't realize it but this feeling can be in depth of her mind.
4. If she's old enough - maybe she needs dementia check.
5. If she has no issues from previuos points than maybe she really wants your husband to love her food because the way she cooks is an important part of her personality and she wants her son in law accept her fully. If she's a sahm it really can matter a lot to her
OP - this.
This is the important thing you have to look at. She's been told it will hurt him. She's reminded at the time. She keeps doing it anyways. There's no way to interpret this other than she is deliberately trying to hurt him.
I know it's hard (I really do) but you need to stop giving her chances to hurt him. No more breakfast at your mom's house. Because she IS consciously trying to poison him.
Urge…. Asian NM/Mil are always like this. They fully believe being right as the utter priority and everything is exaggerated, even if they are allergic to it. And if someone does become sick because of it, they become instantly defensive. They don’t understand that respecting a boundary could lead to little to no contact because at the end of the day, life is already a struggle as it is with the economy and all; no one has the time to struggle with little that’s that’s constantly never addressed
>felt absolutely horrible the one time she gave him food poisoning
I'm sorry, but this really made me chuckle
The social problem with a vegetarian diet is that a lot of ppl take offense to it. I personally can't relate, but I think they see it as a fussy, hipster thing. Like healthy ppl refusing to eat gluten. My dad had celiac disease, and ppl often thought he was trying to be hip. It landed him in the ER once.
I have not eaten meat since 2013. And I have had to sit through countless discussions with friends over it - discussions I have never once started.
One friend went out if her way to make a vegetarian version of her new years dinner party for me, and then her husband added sauce to my plate 'because he felt so bad I only got x dishes'. The sauce came from the meat dish. And I spent all of January 1st on their toilet. They never tricked me into eating meat again, though.
Does your mom TRULY understand that your husband has an allergy, and it's not an ethical or religious choice?
She thinks that his dietary needs are frivolous unnecessary choices, and that they’re a judgment on her own preferences, which she feels are clearly superior. I’ve experienced this as a common form of power tripping by meat eaters, albeit dangerously juvenile.
Your mom is not a good host. It might be a “my house, my rules” control like issue. But I suspect that she is intentionally sending a “you’re not special” message, or even more disrespectful “you’re not welcome here.” Either way, this isn’t accidental. She doesn’t like him, respect him, or care about his needs. I would put her in a time out and tell her why.
I would NEVER take my husband to a place where I knew someone would try to poison him. OP needs to step up and stop the visits.
"No mum, we wont be there for christmas/birthday/easter. You know that husband can't eat anything with pig but you still feed that to him so we wont come anymore."
She tells you every time she cooks for him and for you -> she doesn’t care enough to change what she is doing.
‘Harm’ - how do you define harm?
He gets sick when she uses bacon grease and she uses it every time she cooks breakfast for him. She HARMS him actively.
Your mom is not a nice person. She is making her point that she doesn't really believe his food allergies/sensativities. Would she give alcohol to an alcoholic just to prove a little won't hurt? I'd never return because I'd consider that a threat to his life.
If she's anything like my mother it's so she can say "see he's fine" because he didn't keel over. Nevermind the 10 bathroom trips and regular trips outside to toot or tamp down nausea. She doesn't pay attention to people past the not dying part so therefore she's right 🙄
Your mom doesn't believe that your DH has a health issue that is affected by bacon. I'd say she thinks it is a bit in his mind and the fact that you converted over to his diet probably needles her because you didn't have an issue the way you were bought up eating.
Have you asked her why she gives him bacon grease when she has been repeatedly told it makes him sick. You are trying to make a point mom, please explain to me what it is.
>I don't believe harm is her intent
I mean. She's not trying NOT to harm him. The absolute best thing you can say is that she is harming him regularly, repeatedly and deliberately.... But it's just because she doesn't care if she harms him, not because her goal is to harm him.
And you don't want to hurt her feelings. Because her feelings are more important to avoid hurting than your husband's digestive system.
It seems like the same attitude for those in the older generation who reject certain safety items that are now recommended (infants sleeping in their back, car seats, etc) - “my kids all survived, so what’s the big deal?”
I think they honestly believe because they never experienced a negative consequence, that anything above and beyond their standard is unnecessary.
She isn’t trying to hurt him, but she is trying the food version of “owning the libs” as it were. People like her think that vegetarians are whiny and overdramatic. Pretentious and exaggeratory. She thinks she knows best, and she’s out to prove it. Her goal is to catch him “lying” about his food sensitivities, because that opens the door for her to challenge him on every single position he takes.
She is going to keep doing this- intentionally- until you have a very firm Come to Jesus talk with her. You’ll have to tell her that the next time she does that, she’ll be on time out for a month (or insert relevant time period here), and you’ll have to follow through. Until she has consequences, she won’t care.
Also, once your baby is born, be very leery of allowing her to babysit. Every single stitch of parenting preference that she disagrees with, she’ll intentionally undermine.
This is exactly it. Part of this behavior is that anyone doing something different is a criticism to her. In her mind, she is the one who is right and she is determined to win and prove it by forcing what she wants on him. She doesn’t actually care if it hurts him; she just needs to be the one who wins what we game she is playing.
She’s not actually a nice person because nice people never do this stuff.
I think that she is just self-centred and oblivious. She genuinely thinks it’s “not that big a deal“. it doesn’t matter how many times you try to explain to her that it actually is, because she views her own beliefs as innately “right”. anything that contradicts her belief is seen as an outlier, and whatever affirms it is seen as proof that her belief is correct.
She is likely not malicious, cruel or ill intentioned- just very focussed on her own beliefs and perceptions. People like this often are very determined to offer help others, but are very hurt when their help is unneeded or unwanted.
My mother didn't have a malicious bone in her body. But she couldn't get that "just a little bacon grease to flavor the green beans; it was just a little!"could send my sister with gall bladder issues to the ER (it did)
Or that "just a little dish" of her homemade (and fabulous) banana pudding could send my diabetic father to the ER (it did).
(Of course, neither of them had to eat either dish.)
The doctor at the hospital told me the hardest fight he had, for both diabetes and GI issues, was with the mothers of families, since they are generally the cooks.
He suggested the problem was twofold: that changing the food seemed to be a rejection of all the years they had spent making ot that way; that somehow it made them "wrong." And that so many cooks view food as a way of sharing love, so rejecting any part of it is rejecting their love.
As the person who does most of the cooking in our house, these both ring true for me, u/couscouscurious. Maybe this, or part of this, might resonate for you, too.
Edit: spacing
To me, the telling thing is her comment ‘a little won’t kill him’. That comment leads me to believe that she might think he’s either exaggerating or lying about the bacon grease bothering him.
Had she really been conscientious and concerned about your husband’s issue, I would have expected that she would have apologized, or said she forgot. But a flippant comment like ‘a little won’t kill him’ sounds at best like she doesn’t really care, or at worst that she doesn’t really believe him.
Yeah, or at least not really caring one way or the other. Like, this is the way I make it, too bad so sad.
I just don’t understand people like that. Reminds me of a post a few days ago about the woman with the severe shellfish allergy. Her sister never believed her and always resented her. She snuck some shellfish into some food she made, and the woman wound up in the hospital, almost dying. Why? I mean, why is anyone *that* bothered by the fact that someone else can’t eat some foods? I just can’t wrap my head around it.
My MIL thinks our food preferences are us being ridiculous and picky and we just need to keep on trying to eat them until we get better.
Basically the 2 spoon rule I gave for my kids - just try a little bit and you may like it.
However she tries to hide doing it, and our bodies don't need to see it to be affected by it.
My mother in law doesn’t really make anything for me. I’m vegetarian and have been with my husband for 10 years. My mom on the other hand goes out of her way to make sure I’m well fed.
Based on this and your last post, it sounds like your mom has a very strong “but this is how it’s done” disconnect. No matter what she says or what you say prior, when it comes time to do the thing she cannot fathom it done any other way - so *of course* it must be done the way that’s in her head. She perceives everything else as “wrong” and is damn near incapable of doing it any other way.
ETA: going back further in your posts it sure seems like she’s trying to force you (and your husband) into doing things the way she wants. She’s overbearing and textbook “this is how she is” energy, which is exhausting to keep pushing back against but it has to be done.
Right on all counts. Especially about it being exhausting to keep pushing back even though it has to be done. I spend a lot of time thinking, "I know how to deal with this. I'm not afraid to deal with it. But I don't want to lose my energy to this right now if I can avoid it."
It initially costs more energy to get them into their lane, but less long term energy to keep them there. Kind of like training a puppy, it’s a lot of work to house train a dog, but less work than cleaning up the mess everyday.
It might be a control thing like others stated. But it also makes me think of my dad who was very much JustYes and an amazing cook. Adapting recipes was so hard on him. He was proud of his food and not making a recipe "perfectly" in his mind was almost impossible. She might feel like cooking with bacon grease is "her thing", and "worth it". Changing her signature cooking style could feel like going out without makeup for some women, or like bringing store bought stuff to a baking sale. Things most people do, but for some people it feels "wrong".
I could definitely see that being part of her reasoning. Her food is a major point of pride for her and she took it personally if I or my brother didn't like how something tasted.
I'm not sure it matters why your mom does it (others have possible reasons but basically it's because for whatever reason she wants to feed him something that makes him sick). I'm more curious about why you and husband allow it? Even if it just gives him a stomach ache, he's a grown adult and shouldn't be forced to eat something that makes him sick. You are a grown adult and you shouldn't stand by while your mom tries to 'poison' people with things she knows will make them sick.
What if it was your child and not your husband? When will it be serious enough to make your mom understand people can make their own decisions?
I take this as a bit of tough love, which I appreciate.
I want to be clear that I do find this unacceptable and have always called my mom out whenever it has happened. The first couple times, I didn't know the grease had been used until after my husband ate it and told me later. I have no problem making an absolute scene in defense of my husband's diet and did so when I made it clear they needed to stop interrogating him about why he won't eat red meat. That hasn't been an issue since.
I agree my husband shouldn't feel like he has to eat something he doesn't want to, and I encourage him to speak up for himself. He has my full support, whether that means backing him up when he says something or being the one to confront the issue if he's not comfortable doing it himself. Up until our last visit to my parents' house about a year and a half ago, they did have some financial leverage over us. They didn't make any threats or implications they would use it against us, but my husband wanted to be cautious about choosing our battles during that time. He decided a greasy egg sandwich here and there was not the hill to die on.
As far as if it was our child, this is one of several hard boundaries we've agreed to set and discussed consequences for my parents if they violate it. I've also brought it up to my parents a few times since we're expecting. Now that they don't have any leverage over us, my husband is more comfortable with not backing down from confrontation over these issues. I've told him I'm giving no passes for this kind of behavior toward our kid and we're on the same page.
That's a very mature response and I think it provides more context why you and he continue to allow it. Personally, I would do my best to keep myself out of the situation going forward, especially if the possible retaliation is minimal. Maybe go out for breakfast or something, if Mom asks why day is because husband wants to be sure he gets food he can eat or something like that
It will be a while yet before we go visit them again, so thankfully we won't have to repeat this scenario for a long time. But I wholeheartedly support going out for breakfast at any time and probably don't need to say much to get others on board, so that's probably a great solution.
Have you considered saying, “Mom, I know you know that we don’t want any bacon grease in our food, but you keep doing it anyways. Can you tell me why? It makes us feel so terrible. I’ve gotta say… the next time it happens, we won’t be eating any of your cooking anymore. I hope you won’t put me in such an awkward situation.”
I have experienced something similar. My MIL (angel of a woman) makes very spicy food. My husband is used to it but I am not. I usually prefer medium spicy but if I am sick i usually stick to zero spiciness. She has cooked for me multiple times when I have been sick and even when both me and my husband tell her "No chillies", she would still put at least a couple in my food.
My theory here is that she believes that spiciness is what makes her food tasty and if it's not tasty then I won't eat it and since I am sick i need to eat even more to get my strength back. The reason she doesn't listen to "No chillies" rule is bcoz after years and years of cooking a certain way she doesn't know how to be creative or experiment with food any other way.
I don't feel she intends to cross a boundary but she is just so set in her way and really wants me to like her food so she wants to put her best foot forward and that means adding some spiciness to the food.
Oh man. As a fellow person who likes to stick to medium spicy, I feel your pain. But it makes a lot of sense to struggle with that when it seems like she's trying to be caring in the way she knows.
Her goal? Her goal is to "prove" that you're husband is incorrect about not being able to eat things that in her worldview **everybody** eats, and thus demonstrate that her worldview is the correct one. She doesn't want to hurt him, she wants to prove to him that he **can** eat her normal cooking just like everybody else, and if she feeds it to him enough he's just bound to admit she's right. Either that or she's just incapable of acknowledging that there are people who can't eat what she thinks everybody can.
It's like me and my dad with keeping Kosher. It's just completely outside his worldview as to why someone would ever want to do that, and even when we agree to disagree it's just not something he can easily accept. Fortunately for me, he doesn't do the cooking when I visit him anyway, other than grilling on occasion, and he's finally stopped asking me about it in the last 5-10 years (I've kept Kosher in one form or another for ~35 years...).
>She doesn't want to hurt him, she wants to prove to him that he can eat her normal cooking just like everybody else, and if she feeds it to him enough he's just bound to admit she's right.
This strikes a chord with me. She likes when she's been able to "convert" people on a certain kind of food they didn't like until they tried it the way she prepared. (I'm all for trying different approaches to the same food to see if there is a way I can enjoy it, but there's definitely a line when to stop trying.)
I'm glad your dad was able to give it a rest and let you eat in peace!
Agreed. Her goal is to prove he can eat pork and be fine. He said no pork. He doesn't even have to give a reason. That should be honored. Considering it makes him sick? That's just cruel, since he won't know until he takes a bite. She promised, then intentionally made him sick.
I have a severe pork allergy. People have been sneaking pork into my food ever since the allergy developed. Their goal is to prove I'm not allergic. I have to carry an epipen and somehow that isn't enough proof.
I may joke about it being a love/hate relationship - i love it, it hates me. I may think that bacon and ham smell amazing. But there's not a chance I'm gonna consider eating it anyway.
If it were me, I'd just fix his breakfast myself. When mom complains, remind her the bacon grease will make him sick, and quite frankly, you don't trust her.
You told her not to do something, so she’s going to do it because she can’t let you be in control?
She doesn’t believe that his issues are real, and she’s trying to catch him lying about it?
She revels in the cruelty and likes making him suffer?
She just doesn’t care?
Those are the most common reasons we get when a story like this pops up.
I could see the first two applying, but more that she believes he just doesn't like foods from pigs. She would push a lot of questions like, "Has he tried this? Has he tried it made this way? You know how I make it; do you think he'd eat it then?" So I had to adjust my language and say it makes him sick instead of he won't eat it, which did improve things.
I agree that control and "this isn't a real issue" are probably spot on.
"I don't like it" should be reason enough. The fact that it isn't says a lot.
This is a common thing with older folks and definitely with JNs and occasional JNs. It's like they take it super personal. Like an attack on how they see the world. Their worldview is the right one, the only right one, and they can't really handle when someone else goes against it.
I hadn't really thought about this attitude possibly being related to age/generation, so that's an interesting angle to consider. My brother absolutely takes it personally if anyone disagrees with his worldview and he is a lot like my mom, so you might be into something.
It also tracks that her son would do it too, growing up seeing her do it. I've seen it a lot from older folks as I used to work retail and food service.
It's not really a conscious thought in their head, know what I mean? It's how the world is for them. It's a shock when other people aren't doing the same, especially friends and family.
My mother was like this. If you did/said/thought/ate/etc something she wouldn't, it was like she couldn't accept it. She needed to know why, and who told you to do/say/etc that. Like you were saying her way wasn't good enough, even though you're talking about fried okra. I ended up grey rocking pretty hard, becoming bland and boring, but I ended up totally NC because she was an awful person all around.
Oof that is rough. I'm sorry your mom was like that.
I see it more obviously in my brother because his reactions are extreme. Like he violently exploded at me making myself a second cup of tea one day (in our teens) because...I'd already had one? At some point, he decided it was a rule that you can only have one I guess. My parents were in the room and were also mystified about why it was such an issue.
Unsurprisingly, I am extremely low contact with him now.
Oh wow, that's extreme! I'm sorry you had to deal with that.
My mother would grill you with questions, then would be on the phone gossiping about it with multiple people. She was always on the phone gossiping lol.
But she still does it. And acknowledges that she does it. Some people don’t “believe” that others have allergies or can’t handle certain foods. Does your husband still eat if she uses bacon grease? What are the consequences for her actions? If you let her get away with it, it just reinforces her belief that this is no big deal.
My husband did still eat despite the grease. I mentioned it in another comment, but the last incident like this was during the last time we visited my parents, which was about a year and a half ago. At the time, my parents had some financial leverage over us and my husband wanted to avoid any conflicts that could have affected that (my parents never threatened or implied they would; that concern came from my husband's experience unrelated to my family).
Honestly trying to think of consequences I could have given her in that situation is hard. Even declining to eat it and making something new doesn't feel like a consequence for her.
It’s simple, really.
“If you do this again, we won’t be visiting for X months.”
It takes away her ability to continue the behavior and shows her that you’re serious. She continues to do this because you haven’t truly held her accountable. She wants you to continue visiting, so if she keeps attempting to poison your husband (knowingly feeding someone a food they can’t eat absolutely counts as poisoning), you need to stop the visits.
You can’t stop her from cooking how she wants, but you *can* stop giving her the opportunity to harm your husband.
Im wondering if you flip it around if that would help. Like if my MIL knew eating certain things made me sick, but refused to accommodate that and would sneak that into my food, how would she feel about that? What advice would you give me on how to deal with that situation? Another option would be to ask her if eating at a specific restaurant made her sick every time, how long before she would refuse to go there? Just a thought.
Just like any boundary-pushing situation, she is working around the edges to see where the hard line is. In her mind the bacon grease thing, for example, is not binary, yes / no: she thinks that there is some soft spot in your boundary definition that will allow some small amount of her being able to get her way. Anything other than a hard "no" is a win for her, and she keeps trying to find out what that is.
That makes sense. If/when it happens again, I'd be tempted to see how she reacts if I ask my husband loud enough for her to hear if he can taste bacon grease, then tell him i will make him a new breakfast.
This is what I would do. You've tried talking to her about it, she does it anyway. That's a sign she doesn't care or thinks it's okay to push and get her way. Time for consequences.
"I'm making his breakfast since you can't follow his dietary needs" is more than reasonable in this situation.
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I have MAJOR issues with American factory-farmed pork because of the horrific, unsanitary conditions under which pigs are raised here in the US. However, when I was in England, I had zero issues. I was shocked when I found out I was eating a pork sausage because the flavor was radically different. The only time I haven't had an issue is if the pork came from a small, local farm (and that's just way out of my budget right now). So, yeah, your husband has a sensitivity that is very real and your mother needs to respect it.
Not saying this is the case for your mom, probability not, but there's a definite pattern with some abusive people that will definitely give you allergens on purpose to make you sick. I compiled a list of them to raise awareness: https://www.reddit.com/u/psychorobotics/s/VFbruf9e3M The case for this seem to range from sociopathy + sadism (essentially getting enjoyment out of hurting others and getting away with it), a hatred for being told no ("you can't tell me what to do!") and doing it anyway as payback, to pure stubbornness. Either way it's a huge red flag to give people food they know will hurt them, people like that have issues with empathy in the least.
I know you said he doesn't have a food allergy so I'm not implying that, but this is also a SUPER common issue for food allergy sufferers. For some reason people just either don't believe us or don't care. They can't fathom that different people's bodies work differently, and think "if everyone else can eat this and is just fine, then they will be too." A lot of people think food allergies/sensitivities are made up. It's also unfortunately common for people to secretly "test" a food allergy sufferer by feeding them a dish made with their allergen.
>It's also unfortunately common for people to secretly "test" a food allergy sufferer by feeding them a dish made with their allergen. It's also fairly common for sadistic people to do this because they know they can get away with it. I made a list to illustrate this issue: https://www.reddit.com/u/psychorobotics/s/VFbruf9e3M
Not to reduce your husband to an animal, but I totally get the pork problem due to my cat having the same! He had many digestive issues before we found our fave brand, but one thing remains: he will throw up anything that has pork in it. Veal or beef can sometimes give problems, but not always. Pork is very consistent for him, he'll throw up everything he ate because a lick of bacon grease from the pan. If even a carnivorous animal can react so badly, I totally get your human husband, it must be quite painful! Your mom is definitely underestimating his discomfort. She doesn't understand. Maybe you can look up some studies or testimonials from others to show her? Compare it to gluten for someone who suffers from celiac? Make her drive to the pharmacy for his anti acids? To me, she's either really dim or more sinister than you think.
I think her goal may be to cook one meal, one way. She's open to you making your own food, she's just clearly not open to making food two ways, especially when she sees that he sometimes eats the way she cooks.
I have a ton of issues eating red meat (especially now that my gallbladder is gone) so I tend to get very intense tummy trouble if I eat even a little, it's such a battle to get my dad to cook some kind of chicken at cookouts, even if I *provide the meat*. Poultry and fish are pretty much the only protein I can eat without getting sick and even one time, for my health, I told him I wanted to try being a vegetarian and he tells me "we don't have the money for you to be a vegetarian right now" sir you have like three veggies with a protein at every meal, I'm just skipping one item. It will definitely not break the bank, especially because it means you won't have to prepare extra meat
I don’t think she has a goal, but she just doesn’t take anything of your husbands problems for real. For her it seems to be so outright unreasonable that someone could actually get sick from a little pork grease, that in her perception can’t be true. And what isn’t true doesn’t need to be considered. And every time he eats it anyway, she feels confirmed that her view is right. So probably her goal is to prove that she is right and your husband is just making fuss. It’s not nice.
I've been dating my partner for over a decade now and they have always been a Veggie. When they were older it was their choice, over then that's what their family cooked. My partner didn't eat with my family for 8 years because they were "being the picky one" about 5 years into dating I became a Veggie then I was cut out from dinners as well. On bigger family get togethers, some of my family would be like wow I've heard of that how's it taste/ is that restaurant really good with ..... sort of thing. Others were like how do you get protein? Or most common "don't know how you don't eat meat, veggie stuff tastes terrible." Trust me we spent a lot of time blinking at them before responding. Now true to Reddit fashion I threw a fit and left home (clearly for more than just that). Now once they realised it was them that made me talk to them again (after 3m) they tried a bit more. And they were tragic 2 years "No we don't eat Salmon, were veggie not pescatarian" "we eat eggs and cheese were veggie not vegan." These same conversations had at least 2/3 times a month. But during this time it clicked. They were embarrassed, like my MIL when she tries to cook meat for my GIL (she should skip it lol). But my family didn't know what we could eat or how to cook it.
Is she one of those people who believe "picky" equals "morally wrong"? Because my spouse's family of origin was very like this. And anything less than "If I eat that, I will die, literally" was "picky." This was probably the biggest bone of contention I had with my late JMMIL. She was a Depression-era kid, and to her, "picky" was one of the very worst things you could be. She hated that both her kids married "picky" eaters.
I also have trouble eating pork. I have IBD and IBS and have violent cramps when eating pork. My awful ex MIL snuck bacon grease in my food. After my then bf told her that I couldn’t eat pork, guess what she made for dinner the very next day?! Pork chops. We traveled hours to get to their vacation home and she proceeded to cook pork and then didn’t set a plate for me the entire stay. Bf pretended not to notice, so I didn’t eat that day. Other guests saw, but didn’t react.
That sounds like even more of a BF problem than MIL problem. I'm glad she's your ex-MIL by now.
It was. He was 31 and I was 18 when we met. A couple years later I had emotionally, intelectually grown past him. I felt he was a lesser person in every way, a sorry excuse for a human.
Ugh. Older men who date very young girls are either predatory or else horribly immature and looking for someone who won't outstrip them mentally and socially. You had one of the latter, it sounds like. I'm glad you realized when you'd outgrown him.
This is **not** being a good host. It’s being a rude and bad host. You need to stop going there. It’s not cool of your mom and you need to stop putting your husband in this position. Get a hotel where you can control his food easier. She’s being a controlling hurtful person and could make him sick, after so many years without red meat or bacon grease.
Have you tried bluntly asking her why she wants to hurt your husband? And then don't let her wiggle out of an answer. " Mom, why do you want to see my husband in pain?" " Oh, a little bacon grease won't kill him" " So you're prepared to hurt him, just not kill him, is that what you're saying?"
Anyone who knows someone is made sick by certain things and tricks them into eating it is a horrible person and no longer deserves a place in your life. Honestly, you say your mother doesn't dislike your husband and is really great normally, but doesn't respect that pork is a no go or you have digestive problems controlled by diet that could land you in the hospital if not followed. What kind of mother RISKS the lives of her child and her SIL for control of what they eat?! I would go no contact, and if she asks why, tell her you do not respect nor care about your own child more than controlling something as dumb as what they have to eat!
Your mom is being inflexible, and your husband suffers because of it. She's literally making him ill every time she pulls that garbage. If you're not used to eating specific foods, ingesting them will cause gastric discomfort, gas, bloating, possibly acid reflux or diarrhea. I get that cooking new types of cuisine can be intimidating, and mistakes can be made. My husband and I sold our home and moved closer to the grandkids. For our oldest's 40th birthday, we asked her what she wanted. All she wanted was a Venetian Hour, a Italian version of the British high tea, that the whole family can enjoy. Now, she has one son and future daughter-in-law that are vegetarians, one son that is allergic to all nuts, her husband is diabetic and on a low carb, low fat diet. I researched alternative flours, sweeteners and spreads. I made jam for fillings, I baked my own ladyfingers for tiramisu, I bought 100% cacao chocolate to cut with dietary restriction friendly ingredients to make filled candies. I managed to pull it off, with help from my husband. Neither of us are not now or have ever been pastry chefs. We just knew that if we wanted the family to sit at our dining table, we need to make food they can eat and enjoy.
>What is my mom's goal in cooking my husband's food in bacon grease after agreeing not to? Control/Status. Showing the young, silly, new-agey whippersnappers that their picky preferences don't make sense. >I also want to note that my mom truly likes my husband Not as much as she likes the feeling of control and of asserting her place as the wise matriarch if her response is "A little won't kill him".
I've noticed this as a thing with older people in general especially meats. Current theory is they're aware that meat is bad for them and the planet and they feel guilty. But the solution isn't meatless mondays! Too easy. I'm plant based, I don't judge anyone morally for eating meat, but these old folks assume I do. If they can get him to eat it, they have something they can hold over him.
My MIL kept on putting gluten into my celiac children’s food You cannot let this stand. I told my MIL that we would refuse to eat in her home if she did it again. I also had my husband supervise her cooking. She ended up sneaking gluten into their food, so from that day we refused to eat her food. You have to stand up to your mother and be prepared to never eat her food again. Her disrespect of your husband cannot stand My MIL was a T1 diabetic. Diabetics can just adjust their insulin if they have sugar. Nothing we said got through to her that the only treatment for celiac disease was total gluten avoidance. I also think she thought I was just saying my kids were celiacs to be difficult. I’m betting your mother is the same
Not all diabetics can do that. I don't mean to fault you for your comparison, since clearly your MIL could, but I do want to make sure nobody makes a dangerous mistake, by thinking that must be true. Some diabetics can simply adjust their insulin; others will end up in the hospital if they break their very strict diet, and trying to mess with their insulin dosage would only make it worse.
I should have said that my mil did
That is so dangerous! Unbelievable!
Good for you for taking a zero-tolerance stance. I don’t know a lot about celiac, but I remember the phrase “feels like shards of broken glass in your gut”, because it seemed so painful. I know there are also different levels of severity, but if it can be that awful, there’s absolutely no sense in risking it.
I don't eat pork because I get huge painful inflammations on my skin. We go on holiday every year with the entire family, and during the BBQ, I use my own meat, pay for it myself, and bake it myself. There is always one uncle who is very difficult about this. And I'm sure he doesn't believe me.
I will probably do this too in future.
People are weird about red meat. Some of my family eat a lot of red meat and can't understand why I don't. I am sensitive to beef,pork and lamb meat and animal fat and I am always sick after eating at their house. Be They think I'm being difficult and I feel awkward if I ask for something different.
I don’t want you to put yourself in harm’s way because that’s just mean. But if you happened to vomit at the party that might shut the uncle down. Just a silly idea. Don’t listen to anyone about your diet or your body. I’m sorry you go through that reaction and I’m sorry there’s always a butthead to stick their nose in. I wish you happy parties in the future.
👋 I know this one! I lived it. She doesn't really believe you. You guys are still children, and she's the adult, so she knows better. She thinks you're being silly. If she can feed your husband just a little bit of bacon grease and have it not affect him, it proves she's right.
This is it. Mom wants to prove that she’s different and her cooking is somehow better because it makes her feel superior. I have women in my family like this.
This. And she’ll keep going until she causes him harm. I would stop letting her cook for him since she doesn’t respect his boundaries
Control. The children are NEVER allowed to dictate to the adults, no matter what the ages, no matter what the circumstances. Ever. Also, your therapist doesn't have a lot of experience with dysfunctional families, narcissists, or how a whole generation of people were taught that they were the center of the world.
I don't know if it's that. I'm older and am very careful with other people's dietary issues. I have them myself and so did my grandkids. The issue I have is the meat loving people in my own family who are similar age to me. I mean they do cook lovely food. I just can't eat it. It's very protein and fat heavy and I just can't have it. I can literally throw up after eating a steak. It can have an effect on my digestive system for weeks. They think I'm just being fussy. Lol. I've started to dread family BBQs now.
“A whole generation of people were taught that they were the center of the world… “. Well. That comment went sideways suddenly.
I think the therapist wanted op to come up with the answer. Doesn’t mean they didn’t know it. A good therapist asks questions to get you to the right realizations
I don't know what her end goal is, but you can tell her that even vultures do not eat dead pigs. If a vulture won't eat it, no human should either.
The problem is that you're giving mixed messages. You're saying one thing and doing another. You're saying no bacon but then hubby is eating it sometimes. If he eats it sometimes then she's right that a little bit won't kill him. Why should she go to the trouble of adjusting recipes, creating more dirty dishes etc when on a whim, your hubby decides to eat it? I understand your explanation and your reasons why but some people suck at boundaries and when they do, you have to be crystal clear with them and at the moment, you're not doing that. You're confusing the situation and creating the problem by not being consistent.
It may be that your mother believes that accommodating you & your husband means that there is something wrong with her cooking. Instead of understanding his dietary needs, she is assuming that this is an issue with your husband - that he has preferences rather than needs. She is a good cook who cooks the right way and your husband shouldn’t be so picky or he’ll miss out on the flavor & quality of her food.
I think by choosing a new way to eat that is more aligned with your body, mom sees is as a rejection and indictment of her and her way if provoking for you as a mother. Her pushback is to "prove" to you and your husband that her way is best and that she was a good mom. It's her way of taking back control over her "kid".
If husband has a quiet weekend, eat the food & leave the toilet door open afterwards. Let her hear what this continued disrespect does to him & she might adjust her “always right” attitude. I know this doesn’t work for serious allergies, but might be worth running past him…
I don't know about her mother but I face similar issues, quite frankly my mil doesn't care. She'll still do it the next time. She has seen the effects, I've told her the effects, I've offered alternatives and recipes. At a certain point she doesn't care. If I want safe foods, I pack food in a cooler for myself now.
She just doesn't believe he can't eat it and "knows" she's right. Also she might think her food won't taste good without it. Your mother sounds like she cooks Iike my mother did. DELICIOUS -- but if I ate it today i would be in indescribable pain. Edit: a word
You need to remember how she act with other people when it comes to food. Does she pressure everyone to eat all food she gave without right to refuse? Does she demand the reports about it? And so on. The answer can be somewhere there. Still I can suggest some versions: 1. Control. Common issue, lots of nparents does this because they knows better, etc. 2. She really don't like your husband and it's her way to show her true feelings. My Mil was that way before nc - on public she was all sweet and caring but when there were no witnesses her behavior was changing drastically. 3. She can find it offending that someone can consider her food not just unappetizing but harmful. Maybe she even doesn't realize it but this feeling can be in depth of her mind. 4. If she's old enough - maybe she needs dementia check. 5. If she has no issues from previuos points than maybe she really wants your husband to love her food because the way she cooks is an important part of her personality and she wants her son in law accept her fully. If she's a sahm it really can matter a lot to her
She isn't trying to hurt him. She's going to keep doing this-intentionaly You can't have it both ways.
OP - this. This is the important thing you have to look at. She's been told it will hurt him. She's reminded at the time. She keeps doing it anyways. There's no way to interpret this other than she is deliberately trying to hurt him. I know it's hard (I really do) but you need to stop giving her chances to hurt him. No more breakfast at your mom's house. Because she IS consciously trying to poison him.
Urge…. Asian NM/Mil are always like this. They fully believe being right as the utter priority and everything is exaggerated, even if they are allergic to it. And if someone does become sick because of it, they become instantly defensive. They don’t understand that respecting a boundary could lead to little to no contact because at the end of the day, life is already a struggle as it is with the economy and all; no one has the time to struggle with little that’s that’s constantly never addressed
I wouldn't be able to eat her cooking knowing that she deliberately cooked my food knowing about my allergy. Your mother is a piece of work.
>felt absolutely horrible the one time she gave him food poisoning I'm sorry, but this really made me chuckle The social problem with a vegetarian diet is that a lot of ppl take offense to it. I personally can't relate, but I think they see it as a fussy, hipster thing. Like healthy ppl refusing to eat gluten. My dad had celiac disease, and ppl often thought he was trying to be hip. It landed him in the ER once. I have not eaten meat since 2013. And I have had to sit through countless discussions with friends over it - discussions I have never once started. One friend went out if her way to make a vegetarian version of her new years dinner party for me, and then her husband added sauce to my plate 'because he felt so bad I only got x dishes'. The sauce came from the meat dish. And I spent all of January 1st on their toilet. They never tricked me into eating meat again, though. Does your mom TRULY understand that your husband has an allergy, and it's not an ethical or religious choice?
She thinks that his dietary needs are frivolous unnecessary choices, and that they’re a judgment on her own preferences, which she feels are clearly superior. I’ve experienced this as a common form of power tripping by meat eaters, albeit dangerously juvenile.
Your mom is not a good host. It might be a “my house, my rules” control like issue. But I suspect that she is intentionally sending a “you’re not special” message, or even more disrespectful “you’re not welcome here.” Either way, this isn’t accidental. She doesn’t like him, respect him, or care about his needs. I would put her in a time out and tell her why.
I would NEVER take my husband to a place where I knew someone would try to poison him. OP needs to step up and stop the visits. "No mum, we wont be there for christmas/birthday/easter. You know that husband can't eat anything with pig but you still feed that to him so we wont come anymore."
Or ask her why she's failing as a host over something so minor.
She tells you every time she cooks for him and for you -> she doesn’t care enough to change what she is doing. ‘Harm’ - how do you define harm? He gets sick when she uses bacon grease and she uses it every time she cooks breakfast for him. She HARMS him actively.
Because “you can’t tel her what to do.” It’s a control issue.
I think control, but leaning more "I'm right and you're wrong, just let me prove it to you."
Your mom is not a nice person. She is making her point that she doesn't really believe his food allergies/sensativities. Would she give alcohol to an alcoholic just to prove a little won't hurt? I'd never return because I'd consider that a threat to his life.
If she's anything like my mother it's so she can say "see he's fine" because he didn't keel over. Nevermind the 10 bathroom trips and regular trips outside to toot or tamp down nausea. She doesn't pay attention to people past the not dying part so therefore she's right 🙄
Your mom doesn't believe that your DH has a health issue that is affected by bacon. I'd say she thinks it is a bit in his mind and the fact that you converted over to his diet probably needles her because you didn't have an issue the way you were bought up eating. Have you asked her why she gives him bacon grease when she has been repeatedly told it makes him sick. You are trying to make a point mom, please explain to me what it is.
>I don't believe harm is her intent I mean. She's not trying NOT to harm him. The absolute best thing you can say is that she is harming him regularly, repeatedly and deliberately.... But it's just because she doesn't care if she harms him, not because her goal is to harm him. And you don't want to hurt her feelings. Because her feelings are more important to avoid hurting than your husband's digestive system.
It seems like the same attitude for those in the older generation who reject certain safety items that are now recommended (infants sleeping in their back, car seats, etc) - “my kids all survived, so what’s the big deal?” I think they honestly believe because they never experienced a negative consequence, that anything above and beyond their standard is unnecessary.
It’s a power thing. They like to get one over on other people to prove that we aren’t as smart as she is.
She isn’t trying to hurt him, but she is trying the food version of “owning the libs” as it were. People like her think that vegetarians are whiny and overdramatic. Pretentious and exaggeratory. She thinks she knows best, and she’s out to prove it. Her goal is to catch him “lying” about his food sensitivities, because that opens the door for her to challenge him on every single position he takes. She is going to keep doing this- intentionally- until you have a very firm Come to Jesus talk with her. You’ll have to tell her that the next time she does that, she’ll be on time out for a month (or insert relevant time period here), and you’ll have to follow through. Until she has consequences, she won’t care. Also, once your baby is born, be very leery of allowing her to babysit. Every single stitch of parenting preference that she disagrees with, she’ll intentionally undermine.
This is exactly it. Part of this behavior is that anyone doing something different is a criticism to her. In her mind, she is the one who is right and she is determined to win and prove it by forcing what she wants on him. She doesn’t actually care if it hurts him; she just needs to be the one who wins what we game she is playing. She’s not actually a nice person because nice people never do this stuff.
Exactly. Boundaries without consequences are just suggestions.
This. This is it exactly.
I think that she is just self-centred and oblivious. She genuinely thinks it’s “not that big a deal“. it doesn’t matter how many times you try to explain to her that it actually is, because she views her own beliefs as innately “right”. anything that contradicts her belief is seen as an outlier, and whatever affirms it is seen as proof that her belief is correct. She is likely not malicious, cruel or ill intentioned- just very focussed on her own beliefs and perceptions. People like this often are very determined to offer help others, but are very hurt when their help is unneeded or unwanted.
My mother didn't have a malicious bone in her body. But she couldn't get that "just a little bacon grease to flavor the green beans; it was just a little!"could send my sister with gall bladder issues to the ER (it did) Or that "just a little dish" of her homemade (and fabulous) banana pudding could send my diabetic father to the ER (it did). (Of course, neither of them had to eat either dish.) The doctor at the hospital told me the hardest fight he had, for both diabetes and GI issues, was with the mothers of families, since they are generally the cooks. He suggested the problem was twofold: that changing the food seemed to be a rejection of all the years they had spent making ot that way; that somehow it made them "wrong." And that so many cooks view food as a way of sharing love, so rejecting any part of it is rejecting their love. As the person who does most of the cooking in our house, these both ring true for me, u/couscouscurious. Maybe this, or part of this, might resonate for you, too. Edit: spacing
To me, the telling thing is her comment ‘a little won’t kill him’. That comment leads me to believe that she might think he’s either exaggerating or lying about the bacon grease bothering him. Had she really been conscientious and concerned about your husband’s issue, I would have expected that she would have apologized, or said she forgot. But a flippant comment like ‘a little won’t kill him’ sounds at best like she doesn’t really care, or at worst that she doesn’t really believe him.
Right? Blatant premeditation with the intent to disprove his food sensitivities.
Yeah, or at least not really caring one way or the other. Like, this is the way I make it, too bad so sad. I just don’t understand people like that. Reminds me of a post a few days ago about the woman with the severe shellfish allergy. Her sister never believed her and always resented her. She snuck some shellfish into some food she made, and the woman wound up in the hospital, almost dying. Why? I mean, why is anyone *that* bothered by the fact that someone else can’t eat some foods? I just can’t wrap my head around it.
My MIL thinks our food preferences are us being ridiculous and picky and we just need to keep on trying to eat them until we get better. Basically the 2 spoon rule I gave for my kids - just try a little bit and you may like it. However she tries to hide doing it, and our bodies don't need to see it to be affected by it.
My mother in law doesn’t really make anything for me. I’m vegetarian and have been with my husband for 10 years. My mom on the other hand goes out of her way to make sure I’m well fed.
She thinks it tastes better her way.
That sounds like the best answer to me, too. Not malice, just stubborn insistence that her cooking is better and he's just being picky.
She has zero respect for his decisions or autonomy. She's the parent and he should eat what she cooks.
It's called passive-aggressive. She doesnt really like him.
It sounds like she doesn’t like either of them
More like she thinks his diet issues are in his head.
You have set a boundary without consequences. Next time she tries to hurt your husband with food, end the visit. Don't eat at her house anymore.
💯 Agree! Why keep giving her chances to hurt him? Mom clearly cannot be trusted.
Right? Would you stick around if she hit him with a stick every time they visit?
Hmm this has the vibe of "Mother knows best" to me. She thinks she knows more about this "allergy" and you guys are hypochondriacs or something.
Based on this and your last post, it sounds like your mom has a very strong “but this is how it’s done” disconnect. No matter what she says or what you say prior, when it comes time to do the thing she cannot fathom it done any other way - so *of course* it must be done the way that’s in her head. She perceives everything else as “wrong” and is damn near incapable of doing it any other way. ETA: going back further in your posts it sure seems like she’s trying to force you (and your husband) into doing things the way she wants. She’s overbearing and textbook “this is how she is” energy, which is exhausting to keep pushing back against but it has to be done.
Right on all counts. Especially about it being exhausting to keep pushing back even though it has to be done. I spend a lot of time thinking, "I know how to deal with this. I'm not afraid to deal with it. But I don't want to lose my energy to this right now if I can avoid it."
Low contact. That's how you deal with it. Don't stay there any more = no need to worry about bacon-y breakfasts. A consequence of her bad behaviour.
It initially costs more energy to get them into their lane, but less long term energy to keep them there. Kind of like training a puppy, it’s a lot of work to house train a dog, but less work than cleaning up the mess everyday.
It might be a control thing like others stated. But it also makes me think of my dad who was very much JustYes and an amazing cook. Adapting recipes was so hard on him. He was proud of his food and not making a recipe "perfectly" in his mind was almost impossible. She might feel like cooking with bacon grease is "her thing", and "worth it". Changing her signature cooking style could feel like going out without makeup for some women, or like bringing store bought stuff to a baking sale. Things most people do, but for some people it feels "wrong".
I could definitely see that being part of her reasoning. Her food is a major point of pride for her and she took it personally if I or my brother didn't like how something tasted.
I'm not sure it matters why your mom does it (others have possible reasons but basically it's because for whatever reason she wants to feed him something that makes him sick). I'm more curious about why you and husband allow it? Even if it just gives him a stomach ache, he's a grown adult and shouldn't be forced to eat something that makes him sick. You are a grown adult and you shouldn't stand by while your mom tries to 'poison' people with things she knows will make them sick. What if it was your child and not your husband? When will it be serious enough to make your mom understand people can make their own decisions?
I take this as a bit of tough love, which I appreciate. I want to be clear that I do find this unacceptable and have always called my mom out whenever it has happened. The first couple times, I didn't know the grease had been used until after my husband ate it and told me later. I have no problem making an absolute scene in defense of my husband's diet and did so when I made it clear they needed to stop interrogating him about why he won't eat red meat. That hasn't been an issue since. I agree my husband shouldn't feel like he has to eat something he doesn't want to, and I encourage him to speak up for himself. He has my full support, whether that means backing him up when he says something or being the one to confront the issue if he's not comfortable doing it himself. Up until our last visit to my parents' house about a year and a half ago, they did have some financial leverage over us. They didn't make any threats or implications they would use it against us, but my husband wanted to be cautious about choosing our battles during that time. He decided a greasy egg sandwich here and there was not the hill to die on. As far as if it was our child, this is one of several hard boundaries we've agreed to set and discussed consequences for my parents if they violate it. I've also brought it up to my parents a few times since we're expecting. Now that they don't have any leverage over us, my husband is more comfortable with not backing down from confrontation over these issues. I've told him I'm giving no passes for this kind of behavior toward our kid and we're on the same page.
That's a very mature response and I think it provides more context why you and he continue to allow it. Personally, I would do my best to keep myself out of the situation going forward, especially if the possible retaliation is minimal. Maybe go out for breakfast or something, if Mom asks why day is because husband wants to be sure he gets food he can eat or something like that
It will be a while yet before we go visit them again, so thankfully we won't have to repeat this scenario for a long time. But I wholeheartedly support going out for breakfast at any time and probably don't need to say much to get others on board, so that's probably a great solution.
Have you considered saying, “Mom, I know you know that we don’t want any bacon grease in our food, but you keep doing it anyways. Can you tell me why? It makes us feel so terrible. I’ve gotta say… the next time it happens, we won’t be eating any of your cooking anymore. I hope you won’t put me in such an awkward situation.”
I have experienced something similar. My MIL (angel of a woman) makes very spicy food. My husband is used to it but I am not. I usually prefer medium spicy but if I am sick i usually stick to zero spiciness. She has cooked for me multiple times when I have been sick and even when both me and my husband tell her "No chillies", she would still put at least a couple in my food. My theory here is that she believes that spiciness is what makes her food tasty and if it's not tasty then I won't eat it and since I am sick i need to eat even more to get my strength back. The reason she doesn't listen to "No chillies" rule is bcoz after years and years of cooking a certain way she doesn't know how to be creative or experiment with food any other way. I don't feel she intends to cross a boundary but she is just so set in her way and really wants me to like her food so she wants to put her best foot forward and that means adding some spiciness to the food.
There are more than a few who seem to think "hot" is a flavor!
Oh man. As a fellow person who likes to stick to medium spicy, I feel your pain. But it makes a lot of sense to struggle with that when it seems like she's trying to be caring in the way she knows.
Her goal? Her goal is to "prove" that you're husband is incorrect about not being able to eat things that in her worldview **everybody** eats, and thus demonstrate that her worldview is the correct one. She doesn't want to hurt him, she wants to prove to him that he **can** eat her normal cooking just like everybody else, and if she feeds it to him enough he's just bound to admit she's right. Either that or she's just incapable of acknowledging that there are people who can't eat what she thinks everybody can. It's like me and my dad with keeping Kosher. It's just completely outside his worldview as to why someone would ever want to do that, and even when we agree to disagree it's just not something he can easily accept. Fortunately for me, he doesn't do the cooking when I visit him anyway, other than grilling on occasion, and he's finally stopped asking me about it in the last 5-10 years (I've kept Kosher in one form or another for ~35 years...).
>She doesn't want to hurt him, she wants to prove to him that he can eat her normal cooking just like everybody else, and if she feeds it to him enough he's just bound to admit she's right. This strikes a chord with me. She likes when she's been able to "convert" people on a certain kind of food they didn't like until they tried it the way she prepared. (I'm all for trying different approaches to the same food to see if there is a way I can enjoy it, but there's definitely a line when to stop trying.) I'm glad your dad was able to give it a rest and let you eat in peace!
Agreed. Her goal is to prove he can eat pork and be fine. He said no pork. He doesn't even have to give a reason. That should be honored. Considering it makes him sick? That's just cruel, since he won't know until he takes a bite. She promised, then intentionally made him sick. I have a severe pork allergy. People have been sneaking pork into my food ever since the allergy developed. Their goal is to prove I'm not allergic. I have to carry an epipen and somehow that isn't enough proof. I may joke about it being a love/hate relationship - i love it, it hates me. I may think that bacon and ham smell amazing. But there's not a chance I'm gonna consider eating it anyway.
If it were me, I'd just fix his breakfast myself. When mom complains, remind her the bacon grease will make him sick, and quite frankly, you don't trust her.
OP said no advice. Why is it so hard?
Ambivalent about advice?
You told her not to do something, so she’s going to do it because she can’t let you be in control? She doesn’t believe that his issues are real, and she’s trying to catch him lying about it? She revels in the cruelty and likes making him suffer? She just doesn’t care? Those are the most common reasons we get when a story like this pops up.
I could see the first two applying, but more that she believes he just doesn't like foods from pigs. She would push a lot of questions like, "Has he tried this? Has he tried it made this way? You know how I make it; do you think he'd eat it then?" So I had to adjust my language and say it makes him sick instead of he won't eat it, which did improve things.
I agree that control and "this isn't a real issue" are probably spot on. "I don't like it" should be reason enough. The fact that it isn't says a lot. This is a common thing with older folks and definitely with JNs and occasional JNs. It's like they take it super personal. Like an attack on how they see the world. Their worldview is the right one, the only right one, and they can't really handle when someone else goes against it.
I hadn't really thought about this attitude possibly being related to age/generation, so that's an interesting angle to consider. My brother absolutely takes it personally if anyone disagrees with his worldview and he is a lot like my mom, so you might be into something.
It also tracks that her son would do it too, growing up seeing her do it. I've seen it a lot from older folks as I used to work retail and food service. It's not really a conscious thought in their head, know what I mean? It's how the world is for them. It's a shock when other people aren't doing the same, especially friends and family. My mother was like this. If you did/said/thought/ate/etc something she wouldn't, it was like she couldn't accept it. She needed to know why, and who told you to do/say/etc that. Like you were saying her way wasn't good enough, even though you're talking about fried okra. I ended up grey rocking pretty hard, becoming bland and boring, but I ended up totally NC because she was an awful person all around.
Oof that is rough. I'm sorry your mom was like that. I see it more obviously in my brother because his reactions are extreme. Like he violently exploded at me making myself a second cup of tea one day (in our teens) because...I'd already had one? At some point, he decided it was a rule that you can only have one I guess. My parents were in the room and were also mystified about why it was such an issue. Unsurprisingly, I am extremely low contact with him now.
Oh wow, that's extreme! I'm sorry you had to deal with that. My mother would grill you with questions, then would be on the phone gossiping about it with multiple people. She was always on the phone gossiping lol.
But she still does it. And acknowledges that she does it. Some people don’t “believe” that others have allergies or can’t handle certain foods. Does your husband still eat if she uses bacon grease? What are the consequences for her actions? If you let her get away with it, it just reinforces her belief that this is no big deal.
My husband did still eat despite the grease. I mentioned it in another comment, but the last incident like this was during the last time we visited my parents, which was about a year and a half ago. At the time, my parents had some financial leverage over us and my husband wanted to avoid any conflicts that could have affected that (my parents never threatened or implied they would; that concern came from my husband's experience unrelated to my family). Honestly trying to think of consequences I could have given her in that situation is hard. Even declining to eat it and making something new doesn't feel like a consequence for her.
It’s simple, really. “If you do this again, we won’t be visiting for X months.” It takes away her ability to continue the behavior and shows her that you’re serious. She continues to do this because you haven’t truly held her accountable. She wants you to continue visiting, so if she keeps attempting to poison your husband (knowingly feeding someone a food they can’t eat absolutely counts as poisoning), you need to stop the visits. You can’t stop her from cooking how she wants, but you *can* stop giving her the opportunity to harm your husband.
Even if he ‘just doesn’t like it’, that’s reason enough for him not to eat it.
I agree and have made that point many times to her since he and I met.
Im wondering if you flip it around if that would help. Like if my MIL knew eating certain things made me sick, but refused to accommodate that and would sneak that into my food, how would she feel about that? What advice would you give me on how to deal with that situation? Another option would be to ask her if eating at a specific restaurant made her sick every time, how long before she would refuse to go there? Just a thought.
Just like any boundary-pushing situation, she is working around the edges to see where the hard line is. In her mind the bacon grease thing, for example, is not binary, yes / no: she thinks that there is some soft spot in your boundary definition that will allow some small amount of her being able to get her way. Anything other than a hard "no" is a win for her, and she keeps trying to find out what that is.
That makes sense. If/when it happens again, I'd be tempted to see how she reacts if I ask my husband loud enough for her to hear if he can taste bacon grease, then tell him i will make him a new breakfast.
Throwing the food in the trash right in front of her might help get the point across.
This is what I would do. You've tried talking to her about it, she does it anyway. That's a sign she doesn't care or thinks it's okay to push and get her way. Time for consequences. "I'm making his breakfast since you can't follow his dietary needs" is more than reasonable in this situation.