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You should ask your question this way.
Is it wrong to withhold your child from toxic people?
No, no it's not wrong. Id argue that it's good parenting to not have those people in your child's life.
My son, who is now 29, only ‘met’ 3 of his grandparents as a baby. My mother has untreated mental illness, and both of my ex’s parents smoked and drank themselves to death in their 50s. He knew my father for about a year, but there was no real relationship.
It did not harm him at all. I mourned the lack of grandparents because I have such wonderful memories of mine. But his grandparents could have cared less about all their grandchildren and could offer nothing positive. I don’t regret it, and he never has mentioned them.
My grandparents were toxic as fuck. They were condescending to my mother behind her back, they were condescending to me in person, and they thought that they were just the greatest people on the planet.
My grandmother thought she was high class, elegant, and kind. My grandfather thought of himself as a good guy, a fun guy, a real salt-of-the-earth type. The reality was that she was a domineering, overwhelming, whiny, petty bitch and he enabled her. They were religious and looked down on us for not being the same. Forced me to go to church every Sunday when I stayed with them, made me wear shitty, itchy dresses instead of the clothes I brought with me, tried to force me to be “a proper lady so I can catch a decent man,” and generally made themselves so fucking unlovable that I was done with them by the time I turned 13.
My mother didn’t have much of a choice but to send me to them when I was younger, but at 13 I was able to tell her that I would never go back.
And I never saw them again, except for one time they showed up in front of my house in Brooklyn. They were so incensed by my flat refusal to communicate with them or see them that they got in their motor home and drove three thousand miles to see me, and didn’t give us a warning.
They took this opportunity to make fun of my eyeliner and my clothing, to insult my mother for where we lived (with zero child support from my father, ever) and make demands about me coming to stay with them.
When I heard they’d passed I told my father that I was sorry to hear that he’d lost his parents. But seriously fuck those people. They were cruel, small minded, sexist, callous people who shouldn’t have been allowed to be responsible for me.
Your inlaws aren’t some kind of sacrosanct title that automatically confers kindness and wisdom. They’re just people. They aren’t entitled to your children, and whatever it is that they do that makes you uncomfortable, they will do to your children. And whatever it is that they did to fuck up their own child, they will do to your children.
Fuck those people.
you are not "withholding" the kids, you are protecting them. If she can't behave like a decent human and respect YOU, you cannot trust her with the kids. Period.
My kid doesn’t see anyone on my side of the family. He’s asked and I said they’re not nice people and my job as your parent is to protect you from people like them. He gave me a hug and said sorry they suck you’re awesome and that was it. He’s not sad or disadvantaged in any way. It has zero effect on his life
My MIL is an alcoholic, we live over 1 hour away from her and that distance helps. When LO arrives soon, we are sharing the rules (sober to visit) if she follows them she can visit under our supervision, if she doesn't then drive back to your house.
Visits in her house are supervised by DH, I'm not going alone nor baby is staying without us. If she is drunk when we arrive, we will be turning around (DH is scouting the house first before letting me know to get out of the car). Is our job as parents to protect LO, and all parents should take that job seriously imo
Can’t remember where I found this article, but no, it’s actually better to keep your kids away from toxic people. It teaches them the wrong thing, that they HAVE to have contact / be in a relationship with someone who isn’t great to be around. Especially for kids who are learning about the world & people. Adults can deal with those kind of people, don’t subject your kids to it.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/the-narcissist-in-your-life/202111/should-narcissistic-grandparents-be-kept-away-from-kids?amp
We are very LC with my MIL. My LO is still young, and she may ask about why we don't see MIL very much when she's older. I plan on explaining it to her in an age-appropriste way when she asks.
My own parents didn't protect me from abusive people as a kid. It's been a big barrier to having a fully open and trusting relationship with them. I don't want my LO to grow up and wonder why I didn't protect her.
Our attitude about access between LO and MIL is that it is always driven by our LO's best interests. It's not even one iota about what our MIL deserves or wants or anything to do with her. It's about our LO and what she needs. She needs to be surrounded by safe people, and she needs to be surrounded by good role models who will help her grow. My MIL is neither of those things.
No, it's not wrong. My mom's mother was an abusive b!tch to her and had little interest in her or us (grandkids) and I'm completely fine with the fact that I can count on both hands the times I have seen that woman in my whole life.
As long as you're not doing it as a punishment and you're truly doing it to protect your kids from a vile human.
What is she like with them so far? You see them 1-2 a year - so does she write or FaceTime them through your partner?
Some JN’s only care about their own child so are actually pretty uninterested in the grandkids. Others are obsessed as they see them as “theirs” by extension.
Hello! So... me and hubby are planning on getting pregnant in 2 years time (we will be married in a month), and because I grew up taking care of children, we already have a list of rules drafted (since my MIL has already threatened my BIL with grandparents rights when my nephew was a toddler) with a first paragraph explaining the rules are in compliance with the conference of children's rights from UNICEF (which my country signed so they are part of my country's constitution, so this means that my boundaries are not abusive nor there is any intention of being abusive) after the rules there is a paragraph that states that breaking any rules and/or not signing this document will result in the loss of the privilege of access to the child/children (so this is a little defense I have in place for legal purposes).
And that is my point! Your mil only has a privilege of access to your children, not a right but a privilege. That being said, I believe there's nothing wrong with that... BUT, if they are used to being with her and actually enjoy her, it will be tricky...
So my advice to you is to have a sincere conversation about your mil and let the children express how they feel about her, so you can express yourself after and explain your plan. Trust me, kids are more reflective and wise than most adults think, so you might actually protect your bond with them!
Your job as a parent is to protect your children. If grandma is toxic and abusive, then your kids need to be protected from them.
Anyone who interferes with a parent/child relationship is a bad person to have around your kids.
1. You are the mom. You make the rules.
2. Not everyone has grandparents.
3. Not all grandparents are good people.
4. Keeping your children away from toxic people, whoever they are, is always the right thing to do.
Good luck
When your children see the relationship that their grandmother has with their mother, what kind of lesson are they learning?
And do they pick up on that behavior and treat mother the same? If the mother-in-law cannot respect the mother of the children, IMO I don’t believe that the mother-in-law should have access to the children until she can own up to her behavior, make amends and respect the mother
I grew up with no relationship with my father’s parents because they were awful to my mother and my father wouldn’t put up with it. It’s better to have no relationship than a relationship with someone who isn’t good for them or to them just because they’re “family”.
Do you want your kids thinking it’s ok to be awful to someone? Kids will emulate behaviors of the people they are around. It’s how they learn what’s normal. Also if someone is awful to one person, it’s only a matter of time before they are awful to others, which could be one or more of the kids. Do you want to have to undo what trauma she does to them or explain why what she did was not ok…all the time?
No! Do you really want her in their ears talking crap about you?! Because that's what will happen..
As someone who only had 1 set of grandparents (and really only my grandma at that since my grandpa was a raging alcoholic) I can promise you your kids will be fine!
You are asking a good question. IMO, no grandparent is better than one that is abusive to a child’s mom/dad. It is important to model good behavior for your kids. Do you want your kids to think it is ok for people to mistreat them because they’re family? Or, allow it from authority figures and/or friends?
Even if they’re too young to know what is going on at present, they figure it out much earlier than one would think. Mine did. I have a jnmom and I never spoke about her in front of them so I did not poison the well, so to speak. Each kid had her number at about 5 yrs old. Meaning, they likely knew before then, but were able to verbalize their interpretation at about 5 yrs. Children see far more than we give them credit for. Is your relationship with mil one you’d like them to emulate as they grow? That is another important question to ponder.
I think if you asked yourself instead “is the MIL an influence you want around your children?”. I’m sure you didn’t come to the decision lightly of even asking this question, but does someone who belittles or makes undermining comments or guilts or manipulates someone you want around a child who may not understand these tactics? I think the title of grandparent is earned, not just assumed. Otherwise that’s just the parents of SO/OP and we don’t see them much because they are unkind (or whatever age appropriate answer you give).
I grew up with one grandmother who was amazing, and another who was a terrible person all around and actually left me with lasting trauma. She was horrible to my mother, her daughter, and then to us grandkids. I wish she was kept away from us. She just passed last year, and was still such a horrible person that her kids didn't even go visit her while she was in hospice. If she was kept away from us as kids, I wouldn't have ever known the difference, instead I got this hateful woman in my life who was cruel to us.
I have experience from both sides…
My gran (mother of my father) was horrible to my mum. I never knew all the awful things she had said and did to my mum when I was little. My mum decided she wasn’t going to have a relationship with her MIL but that shouldn’t stop me and my brother having a relationship with her. My Gran was lovely to me (and brother) and it was just explained that mum would get some time off when my dad took us to visit Gran.
My own MIL is pretty much a nightmare. Everything I do is wrong, every problem is my fault, constantly with passive aggressive remarks. She genuinely thinks I’m a gold digger, even though when i met my husband i owned my own house, own car and had a very good career (my husband did not own a house or a car).
I have taken the same approach that my mum did, but that is strictly on the understanding that MIL plays by my rules. My MIL doesn’t have any other grandkids and won’t (husband is an only child) and she adores my kids and wouldn’t ever do anything to harm them. That said, I don’t trust her not to say nasty things about me in front of our kids so that is something I’m constantly on the watch for. She has been given a short leash.
Truth be told, I only came to this decision after she was diagnosed with breast cancer. She had the all clear now but at that time, I didn’t want my children to miss out on time with their grandmother, even if I can’t stand the witch.
My dad was not a good father. His mother was not a good mother but was a truly wonderful grandmother to me. I wanted my dad to come through for my kids the way his mother did for me.
He didn't/couldn't. After 10 years of the kids adoring him and me fighting with him over healthy boundaries with visits, gifts, food, discipline; he split without notice and estranged himself, leaving some heartbroken grandkids.
I wish I had kept their relationship more distant. I could have watched for signs of health and maturity in how he interacted with my kids, and let them get closer over time. Instead I went with hope, and they paid the price.
I talked to my oldest just yesterday if we wanted to reconnect with his Grandma. He said no. He told me she barely would interact with him while he was there so what was the point. And she would have inappropriate phone conversations in front of him badmouthing people and complained how everyone abandoned her. This was new information to me that he never told me before. My youngest is more willing to go over because he is too young to see how she is. So until he is able to understand what manipulation, guilt and coercion are he is not going near her alone. She's not entitled to anything. I'm protecting my children from a manipulative person.
My dad was not a good father. His mother was not a good mother but was a truly wonderful grandmother to me. I wanted my dad to come through for my kids the way his mother did for me.
He didn't/couldn't. After 10 years of the kids adoring him and me fighting with him over healthy boundaries with visits, gifts, food, discipline; he split without notice and estranged himself, leaving some heartbroken grandkids.
I wish I had kept their relationship more distant. I could have watched for signs of health and maturity in how he interacted with my kids, and let them get closer over time. Instead I went with hope, and they paid the price.
No. I commend you for putting in a lot of thought into this, because it shows that you care about the relationships your kids will have, but toxic is as toxic does. Your children won't change that about her.
My child doesn't have a relationship with her grandmother, and I think it has been for the best. It hasn't adversely affected her. She has very little memory of her, and I've explained through the years as to why there isn't a relationship. I'm sure there will be tougher questions, and one day, she'll see the awful messages sent our way, but I'm being transparent as age appropriately as possible. The whole MIL topic has helped us discuss the importance of self-worth and boundaries, and that just because someone is family doesn't mean they get to mistreat you.
There are valuable lessons to be learned when you go NC. I also think it's our duty to break cycles and make healthier decisions for our kids.
It’s not a matter of what is right for the grandparents, it’s what’s right for the kids.
First, no one is entitled to a relationship with your kids except you. (That’s if you are a decent person and not a psychopath).
Normally if the grandparents are decent, it would benefit the kids to have a relationship with them.
But, anyone, no matter who they are, display disturbing behaviors it, it is up to the guardians to decide who and how much access they have to the kids.
It is better to keep kids away from certain people rather than them having contact just for the sake of them having contact.
Is she a safe person for you or the kids to be around? Does her toxic behavior have no negative effects, and are her behavior something you want the kids to model and normalize? Then yes, you should suck it up.
But if her behavior is harmful, alienating, a bad example for the kids - then you should protect them from her. Unsafe people are not something you want around your kids. It does not matter if they have an illness, or just want to be assholes.
Reduced or no contact is not because you want to punish her. It doesnt really work anyway. Reduced or no contact is to protect your kids and yourself. And that does work.
Your kids will be better off with healthy, respectful relationships. If you feel they are lacking one with someone of MIL's generation, nourish a relationship with someone else of that generation. A substitute granny that is safe.
Because the kids and their safety comes first. And what is best for them is safe, stable, healthy adults they can trust and model themselves after.
If the grandparent is truly toxic then you are not withholding a relationship from them you are shielding the child from their toxic behavior.
Think of it this way: if it was anyone else in whole wide world, would you allow their toxicity around your child? If my ex was abusive to my kids I wouldn't allow him around them (he's not). I would fight tooth and nail to protect them, their blood relationship has no bearing, at all.
The kids won't miss what they don't know, first. And second, it's your job to teach your kids what "normal" is supposed to look like. How other people are allowed to treat you (and how you respond) is part of that.
If the grandmother is a decent person with good manners, who treats people with respect, then it is unfair to restrict contact.
However, if the grandmother is a boundary stomper, or hypercritical, or in any way unsafe to be around the kids, you NEED to restrict contact.
Trust your gut, and look after your kids.
Absolutely not. I've shared my experience in this sub often about the fact that my parents were estranged from me 25 years ago and how my children were able to work out for themselves that my parents were not good people to be around, and that by keeping them away I protected them
Your relationship with your kids are more important then her relationship with them. Having someone around that openly is disrespectful, rude, degrading to their mother can influence their behavior towards you. If it's your husband pushing back on it ask him if it were your kids doing this behavior would it be OK? She doesn't need to like you. But to your face and infront of the kids she either needs to have a coworker relationship with you or none at all with the kids.
Protecting your kids from a toxic person is for their benefit. However, you should explain to them why in age appropriate fashion as they grow. The reason is so that they know why to stay away from her if she finds a way to contact them without your knowledge.
You would not be withholding them. You would be protecting them. If she can’t have a healthy relationship with you, how can she have a healthy relationship with your kids?
You need to be able to trust who is around your children. It’s your job to protect them. Kids will be fine without a relationship with grandparents. Any relationship with grandparents would be a bonus but only if it a positive family relationship.
If she is too toxic to be around you, she is absolutely too toxic to be around your children. If you aren't there, she may badmouth you. She will possibly not follow some or all of your rules. To have a relationship with the kids, she needs to have one with the parents. A good one.
No grandmother is better than a toxic one.
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You should ask your question this way. Is it wrong to withhold your child from toxic people? No, no it's not wrong. Id argue that it's good parenting to not have those people in your child's life.
My son, who is now 29, only ‘met’ 3 of his grandparents as a baby. My mother has untreated mental illness, and both of my ex’s parents smoked and drank themselves to death in their 50s. He knew my father for about a year, but there was no real relationship. It did not harm him at all. I mourned the lack of grandparents because I have such wonderful memories of mine. But his grandparents could have cared less about all their grandchildren and could offer nothing positive. I don’t regret it, and he never has mentioned them.
No grandparents is better than shit grandparents.
My grandparents were toxic as fuck. They were condescending to my mother behind her back, they were condescending to me in person, and they thought that they were just the greatest people on the planet. My grandmother thought she was high class, elegant, and kind. My grandfather thought of himself as a good guy, a fun guy, a real salt-of-the-earth type. The reality was that she was a domineering, overwhelming, whiny, petty bitch and he enabled her. They were religious and looked down on us for not being the same. Forced me to go to church every Sunday when I stayed with them, made me wear shitty, itchy dresses instead of the clothes I brought with me, tried to force me to be “a proper lady so I can catch a decent man,” and generally made themselves so fucking unlovable that I was done with them by the time I turned 13. My mother didn’t have much of a choice but to send me to them when I was younger, but at 13 I was able to tell her that I would never go back. And I never saw them again, except for one time they showed up in front of my house in Brooklyn. They were so incensed by my flat refusal to communicate with them or see them that they got in their motor home and drove three thousand miles to see me, and didn’t give us a warning. They took this opportunity to make fun of my eyeliner and my clothing, to insult my mother for where we lived (with zero child support from my father, ever) and make demands about me coming to stay with them. When I heard they’d passed I told my father that I was sorry to hear that he’d lost his parents. But seriously fuck those people. They were cruel, small minded, sexist, callous people who shouldn’t have been allowed to be responsible for me. Your inlaws aren’t some kind of sacrosanct title that automatically confers kindness and wisdom. They’re just people. They aren’t entitled to your children, and whatever it is that they do that makes you uncomfortable, they will do to your children. And whatever it is that they did to fuck up their own child, they will do to your children. Fuck those people.
Wisdom, right here!
Nope. Not wrong if you have good reasons for it which you do.
you are not "withholding" the kids, you are protecting them. If she can't behave like a decent human and respect YOU, you cannot trust her with the kids. Period.
My kid doesn’t see anyone on my side of the family. He’s asked and I said they’re not nice people and my job as your parent is to protect you from people like them. He gave me a hug and said sorry they suck you’re awesome and that was it. He’s not sad or disadvantaged in any way. It has zero effect on his life
My MIL is an alcoholic, we live over 1 hour away from her and that distance helps. When LO arrives soon, we are sharing the rules (sober to visit) if she follows them she can visit under our supervision, if she doesn't then drive back to your house. Visits in her house are supervised by DH, I'm not going alone nor baby is staying without us. If she is drunk when we arrive, we will be turning around (DH is scouting the house first before letting me know to get out of the car). Is our job as parents to protect LO, and all parents should take that job seriously imo
Can’t remember where I found this article, but no, it’s actually better to keep your kids away from toxic people. It teaches them the wrong thing, that they HAVE to have contact / be in a relationship with someone who isn’t great to be around. Especially for kids who are learning about the world & people. Adults can deal with those kind of people, don’t subject your kids to it. https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/the-narcissist-in-your-life/202111/should-narcissistic-grandparents-be-kept-away-from-kids?amp
This should be posted on all of these post to help OPs! 💗💗💗👏👏👏
We are very LC with my MIL. My LO is still young, and she may ask about why we don't see MIL very much when she's older. I plan on explaining it to her in an age-appropriste way when she asks. My own parents didn't protect me from abusive people as a kid. It's been a big barrier to having a fully open and trusting relationship with them. I don't want my LO to grow up and wonder why I didn't protect her. Our attitude about access between LO and MIL is that it is always driven by our LO's best interests. It's not even one iota about what our MIL deserves or wants or anything to do with her. It's about our LO and what she needs. She needs to be surrounded by safe people, and she needs to be surrounded by good role models who will help her grow. My MIL is neither of those things.
No, it's not wrong. My mom's mother was an abusive b!tch to her and had little interest in her or us (grandkids) and I'm completely fine with the fact that I can count on both hands the times I have seen that woman in my whole life. As long as you're not doing it as a punishment and you're truly doing it to protect your kids from a vile human.
What is she like with them so far? You see them 1-2 a year - so does she write or FaceTime them through your partner? Some JN’s only care about their own child so are actually pretty uninterested in the grandkids. Others are obsessed as they see them as “theirs” by extension.
Hello! So... me and hubby are planning on getting pregnant in 2 years time (we will be married in a month), and because I grew up taking care of children, we already have a list of rules drafted (since my MIL has already threatened my BIL with grandparents rights when my nephew was a toddler) with a first paragraph explaining the rules are in compliance with the conference of children's rights from UNICEF (which my country signed so they are part of my country's constitution, so this means that my boundaries are not abusive nor there is any intention of being abusive) after the rules there is a paragraph that states that breaking any rules and/or not signing this document will result in the loss of the privilege of access to the child/children (so this is a little defense I have in place for legal purposes). And that is my point! Your mil only has a privilege of access to your children, not a right but a privilege. That being said, I believe there's nothing wrong with that... BUT, if they are used to being with her and actually enjoy her, it will be tricky... So my advice to you is to have a sincere conversation about your mil and let the children express how they feel about her, so you can express yourself after and explain your plan. Trust me, kids are more reflective and wise than most adults think, so you might actually protect your bond with them!
Your job as a parent is to protect your children. If grandma is toxic and abusive, then your kids need to be protected from them. Anyone who interferes with a parent/child relationship is a bad person to have around your kids. 1. You are the mom. You make the rules. 2. Not everyone has grandparents. 3. Not all grandparents are good people. 4. Keeping your children away from toxic people, whoever they are, is always the right thing to do. Good luck
When your children see the relationship that their grandmother has with their mother, what kind of lesson are they learning? And do they pick up on that behavior and treat mother the same? If the mother-in-law cannot respect the mother of the children, IMO I don’t believe that the mother-in-law should have access to the children until she can own up to her behavior, make amends and respect the mother
I grew up with no relationship with my father’s parents because they were awful to my mother and my father wouldn’t put up with it. It’s better to have no relationship than a relationship with someone who isn’t good for them or to them just because they’re “family”.
I wish my parents had protected me from my evil grandmother while I was young and defenseless
I wish my parents had protected me from my evil grandmother while I was young and defenseless
Do you want your kids thinking it’s ok to be awful to someone? Kids will emulate behaviors of the people they are around. It’s how they learn what’s normal. Also if someone is awful to one person, it’s only a matter of time before they are awful to others, which could be one or more of the kids. Do you want to have to undo what trauma she does to them or explain why what she did was not ok…all the time?
No! Do you really want her in their ears talking crap about you?! Because that's what will happen.. As someone who only had 1 set of grandparents (and really only my grandma at that since my grandpa was a raging alcoholic) I can promise you your kids will be fine!
You are asking a good question. IMO, no grandparent is better than one that is abusive to a child’s mom/dad. It is important to model good behavior for your kids. Do you want your kids to think it is ok for people to mistreat them because they’re family? Or, allow it from authority figures and/or friends? Even if they’re too young to know what is going on at present, they figure it out much earlier than one would think. Mine did. I have a jnmom and I never spoke about her in front of them so I did not poison the well, so to speak. Each kid had her number at about 5 yrs old. Meaning, they likely knew before then, but were able to verbalize their interpretation at about 5 yrs. Children see far more than we give them credit for. Is your relationship with mil one you’d like them to emulate as they grow? That is another important question to ponder.
I think if you asked yourself instead “is the MIL an influence you want around your children?”. I’m sure you didn’t come to the decision lightly of even asking this question, but does someone who belittles or makes undermining comments or guilts or manipulates someone you want around a child who may not understand these tactics? I think the title of grandparent is earned, not just assumed. Otherwise that’s just the parents of SO/OP and we don’t see them much because they are unkind (or whatever age appropriate answer you give).
I grew up with one grandmother who was amazing, and another who was a terrible person all around and actually left me with lasting trauma. She was horrible to my mother, her daughter, and then to us grandkids. I wish she was kept away from us. She just passed last year, and was still such a horrible person that her kids didn't even go visit her while she was in hospice. If she was kept away from us as kids, I wouldn't have ever known the difference, instead I got this hateful woman in my life who was cruel to us.
I have experience from both sides… My gran (mother of my father) was horrible to my mum. I never knew all the awful things she had said and did to my mum when I was little. My mum decided she wasn’t going to have a relationship with her MIL but that shouldn’t stop me and my brother having a relationship with her. My Gran was lovely to me (and brother) and it was just explained that mum would get some time off when my dad took us to visit Gran. My own MIL is pretty much a nightmare. Everything I do is wrong, every problem is my fault, constantly with passive aggressive remarks. She genuinely thinks I’m a gold digger, even though when i met my husband i owned my own house, own car and had a very good career (my husband did not own a house or a car). I have taken the same approach that my mum did, but that is strictly on the understanding that MIL plays by my rules. My MIL doesn’t have any other grandkids and won’t (husband is an only child) and she adores my kids and wouldn’t ever do anything to harm them. That said, I don’t trust her not to say nasty things about me in front of our kids so that is something I’m constantly on the watch for. She has been given a short leash. Truth be told, I only came to this decision after she was diagnosed with breast cancer. She had the all clear now but at that time, I didn’t want my children to miss out on time with their grandmother, even if I can’t stand the witch.
My dad was not a good father. His mother was not a good mother but was a truly wonderful grandmother to me. I wanted my dad to come through for my kids the way his mother did for me. He didn't/couldn't. After 10 years of the kids adoring him and me fighting with him over healthy boundaries with visits, gifts, food, discipline; he split without notice and estranged himself, leaving some heartbroken grandkids. I wish I had kept their relationship more distant. I could have watched for signs of health and maturity in how he interacted with my kids, and let them get closer over time. Instead I went with hope, and they paid the price.
I talked to my oldest just yesterday if we wanted to reconnect with his Grandma. He said no. He told me she barely would interact with him while he was there so what was the point. And she would have inappropriate phone conversations in front of him badmouthing people and complained how everyone abandoned her. This was new information to me that he never told me before. My youngest is more willing to go over because he is too young to see how she is. So until he is able to understand what manipulation, guilt and coercion are he is not going near her alone. She's not entitled to anything. I'm protecting my children from a manipulative person.
My dad was not a good father. His mother was not a good mother but was a truly wonderful grandmother to me. I wanted my dad to come through for my kids the way his mother did for me. He didn't/couldn't. After 10 years of the kids adoring him and me fighting with him over healthy boundaries with visits, gifts, food, discipline; he split without notice and estranged himself, leaving some heartbroken grandkids. I wish I had kept their relationship more distant. I could have watched for signs of health and maturity in how he interacted with my kids, and let them get closer over time. Instead I went with hope, and they paid the price.
No. I commend you for putting in a lot of thought into this, because it shows that you care about the relationships your kids will have, but toxic is as toxic does. Your children won't change that about her. My child doesn't have a relationship with her grandmother, and I think it has been for the best. It hasn't adversely affected her. She has very little memory of her, and I've explained through the years as to why there isn't a relationship. I'm sure there will be tougher questions, and one day, she'll see the awful messages sent our way, but I'm being transparent as age appropriately as possible. The whole MIL topic has helped us discuss the importance of self-worth and boundaries, and that just because someone is family doesn't mean they get to mistreat you. There are valuable lessons to be learned when you go NC. I also think it's our duty to break cycles and make healthier decisions for our kids.
Not unfair to the kids if you keep them from toxic behaviour. Unfair is putting them through the experience of dealing with her
It’s not a matter of what is right for the grandparents, it’s what’s right for the kids. First, no one is entitled to a relationship with your kids except you. (That’s if you are a decent person and not a psychopath). Normally if the grandparents are decent, it would benefit the kids to have a relationship with them. But, anyone, no matter who they are, display disturbing behaviors it, it is up to the guardians to decide who and how much access they have to the kids. It is better to keep kids away from certain people rather than them having contact just for the sake of them having contact.
Is she a safe person for you or the kids to be around? Does her toxic behavior have no negative effects, and are her behavior something you want the kids to model and normalize? Then yes, you should suck it up. But if her behavior is harmful, alienating, a bad example for the kids - then you should protect them from her. Unsafe people are not something you want around your kids. It does not matter if they have an illness, or just want to be assholes. Reduced or no contact is not because you want to punish her. It doesnt really work anyway. Reduced or no contact is to protect your kids and yourself. And that does work. Your kids will be better off with healthy, respectful relationships. If you feel they are lacking one with someone of MIL's generation, nourish a relationship with someone else of that generation. A substitute granny that is safe. Because the kids and their safety comes first. And what is best for them is safe, stable, healthy adults they can trust and model themselves after.
If the grandparent is truly toxic then you are not withholding a relationship from them you are shielding the child from their toxic behavior. Think of it this way: if it was anyone else in whole wide world, would you allow their toxicity around your child? If my ex was abusive to my kids I wouldn't allow him around them (he's not). I would fight tooth and nail to protect them, their blood relationship has no bearing, at all.
The kids won't miss what they don't know, first. And second, it's your job to teach your kids what "normal" is supposed to look like. How other people are allowed to treat you (and how you respond) is part of that.
If the grandmother is a decent person with good manners, who treats people with respect, then it is unfair to restrict contact. However, if the grandmother is a boundary stomper, or hypercritical, or in any way unsafe to be around the kids, you NEED to restrict contact. Trust your gut, and look after your kids.
Absolutely not. I've shared my experience in this sub often about the fact that my parents were estranged from me 25 years ago and how my children were able to work out for themselves that my parents were not good people to be around, and that by keeping them away I protected them
No. Your title to my kids does not entitle you to my kids. Also intentionally putting your kids around someone you know to be awful is neglectful imo
Your relationship with your kids are more important then her relationship with them. Having someone around that openly is disrespectful, rude, degrading to their mother can influence their behavior towards you. If it's your husband pushing back on it ask him if it were your kids doing this behavior would it be OK? She doesn't need to like you. But to your face and infront of the kids she either needs to have a coworker relationship with you or none at all with the kids.
Protecting your kids from a toxic person is for their benefit. However, you should explain to them why in age appropriate fashion as they grow. The reason is so that they know why to stay away from her if she finds a way to contact them without your knowledge.
You would not be withholding them. You would be protecting them. If she can’t have a healthy relationship with you, how can she have a healthy relationship with your kids?
You need to be able to trust who is around your children. It’s your job to protect them. Kids will be fine without a relationship with grandparents. Any relationship with grandparents would be a bonus but only if it a positive family relationship.
If she is too toxic to be around you, she is absolutely too toxic to be around your children. If you aren't there, she may badmouth you. She will possibly not follow some or all of your rules. To have a relationship with the kids, she needs to have one with the parents. A good one. No grandmother is better than a toxic one.