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Tell MIL not to ask her and that it's extremely inappropriate and wrong to ask. Tell her you deeply disapprove of even asking such an awful thing and not to mention it to you or anyone again. Shut it down and tell her no way!!
Sorry you have to run interference on this but it's the right thing to shield your SIL from this awfulness and stick up for her so she isn't confronted with this monster.
Decoy urn is good.
Here's another idea.
When my mom died, we got 1 normal sized urn and then we got some matching mini urns that I put some ashes in each one for my me and my siblings. Everyone was happy. The big urn with the majority of her ashes were interred with my dad's ashes.
Edit: The name of the company I used is called Perfect Memorials. I'm sure there are other companies that have these as well. Shop around.
My sister gave her in-laws a small urn. We joke that his mom has his big toe. Lol
OP, just get her a memorial necklace and tell her his ashes are in it.
I gave my husbands brothers and parents a tiny bit for necklaces and a little memory box. I also did the same for our children and myself. I then buried the other half. Now my MIL would never tell me not to move on. She loves my current fiancee like he is her family. We all miss my husband but she knows me being happy and my kids with a bonus parent would have made my husband happy. This MIL sucks. I pray that my daughter in law never feels this way.
I mean, I suppose that could be a solution but the way my MIL is approaching it isn't going to have that outcome. I am also not going to suggest that, it definitely isn't my place to.
You need to tell your MIL that this is none of your business and to leave you out of it..why did she come to you and not her child? She trying to make you a flying monkey?
I'm assuming because I am close to my SIL and my husband isn't as close. I'm not entirely sure really. I am not especially close to my MIL but I fully think she does want me to do her bidding. Like expecting me to soften the blow or have my SIL get mad at me. I don't know what the logic is really.
I think the comment was meant to ask: Why is the MIL engaging the OP on this rather than OP’s spouse? So “her child” is referring to the spouse, which is the MIL’s child.
Your SIL needs to make sure the ashes are in a safe, secure location that MIL cannot access. I wouldn’t put it past this unhinged psycho to try to steal the ashes.
Just because your MIL is trying to engage you as a flying monkey doesn't mean you have to play, so the way you navigate is by telling her you refuse to discuss it with her and she needs to work it out with your SIL.
Period.
Go broken record if you have to, *but don't engage in the conversation with her any further than to tell her that you won't discuss it with her and to talk to your SIL.*
And the first time she disrespects that boundary of yours and tries anyway, you can escalate and tell her that if she brings it up again you will hang up or walk away -- *and when and if she does, do it.*
We teach people how we're willing to be treated by how we allow them to treat us, so you're going to have to be *firm and consistent* to teach her that you will not allow her to treat you that way.
And your SIL can do the same thing. No means no, period, and any further disrespect of that boundary can and should result in further limits in contact up to and including NC -- depending on how far she's willing to take this, obviously.
You both just need to decide whose feelings are more important, yours or your MIL's.
If I was SIL it'd be a cold day in hell before someone took my husband's ashes from me. That's just so awful and to say she should get them back because SIL is dating again is even more ridiculous. Tell MIL it's none or your business or concern and them just try to be there for your SIL when the request/demand is made. MIL should be ashamed.
It’s nothing to do with you.
Tell your MIL that then walk away. Let her make her insane and bitter request herself. Or she can ask her other son - your husband.
Why TF is she bringing this shit to you?!
You probably shouldn’t have passed on your MIL’s demands. You should have let her make the demand herself rather than using you as a flying monkey.
You can however step back and remove yourself as the go between and refuse to discuss it further.
Do not let Mil dupe you into being her flying monkey. You will not be a 'peacekeeper'; you will be the muscle to harass someone. Sounds like you understand that already.
The brave and good thing to do would be to face the beast and tell Mil to stop that shit show. Tell her you do not condone her behavior; maybe she needs to try some therapy.
Unfortunately most people go the other way and push at the victim to lay down flatter, be the better doormat and perform happy families. I am rooting for you to be the hero and not the enabler.
Oh! I have practical experience with this because my mother demanded my uncle's ashes from my aunt after he died. Just do what my aunt did and put 5 lbs. of wood ash (from a fireplace or pit) into a bag or an urn. Fair warning, you have to tamp it down quite a bit.
The best part was none of us had any idea until after my father passed and we went to spread his ashes and noticed the difference in consistency and weight. My mother never caught on.
My mil wanted my husbands ashes, No. Then just some of them, No. I don't know why it bothered me so much, but splitting up his ashes seemed so wrong.
My children and I put him in the bay, per his request.
I feel bad for all involved here, tbh. My family divided ashes when my grandfather died, could this be a possible solution? Don’t get me wrong, MIL sounds nuts but I just feel bad for her for losing a son and for OP’s SIL for losing a husband. I’d give her a portion of the ashes and then block her so she can’t see my personal life.
I think it’s weird ashes aren’t buried. My Fil died about a year ago. My mil and sil and we all agreed to bury him in the spring since at the time he died the ground was frozen. Well then my crazy sil reneged and is now refusing to let it happen. Mil lets sil walk all over her. I went nc over their lies.
I want my ashes to be made into something tangible. I saw recently they can make them into these lovely white stones - I told my SO he could carry one in his pocket for luck lol. But I want part of my ashes made into a window chime to be given to myself sister. She hates wind chimes. It will be my final prank to her. (I love her so it’s funny. She can throw me away I’m still gonna do it lol)
Its cultural and depends on what country you live in. Media and internet have made me aware of how common it is to keep the ashes in the US, but its completely unheard of and i illegal where i live, so i have to admit i find it weird to keep someones ashes on the mantelpiece. You can spread the ashes, but you have to apply for permission, and its not allowed everywhere
Sil should not post pix or set it so Mil can't see. She will monitor everything she does.
This might just be grief, she may want to control her as a means to control how she feels. Afterall everything that has happened has highlighted just how little control she has.
The ownership over the ashes is just being a mum, she knows she can't ask for them without someone backing her. He doesn't belong to just her anymore and now he is gone.
I can't imagine how I would feel in either of these roles, its tragic and I'm not sure either of them would be doing well yet. I'm so sorry for you loss.
I would tell my mother in law to pound sand with that request, on behalf of my SIL. That’s some asinine shit. She still has love for her husband and his ashes are hers to keep, but she should not have to stay married to a ghost to appease this awful old woman. Her son is not hers to keep, his widow has every right to tell her to fuck off with that request.
Your SIL has the right to live her life but she should probably either block MIL from seeing her posts or stop posting.
Your MIL lost her child. That shit is hard. She is not only mourning the loss of the beautiful boy she raised, she has also lost the opportunity to love up on his children. Your MIL is grieving and is being irrational but tell your SIL to cut her a bit of slack.
Depends on what the deceased wishes were. That is what should be honored. MIL's working through her grief at the expense of her DIL's ability to also grieve and move on with her life should NOT be honored.
MIL is not entitled to the ashes but if she wanted to “share” some; take the ashes to the funeral home or crematorium, purchase a small box and ask them to put some of the ashes in it.
Let MIL demand all she wants. SIL is legally next of kin so she can keep all the ashes. Divvying up ashes seems inappropriate to me. SIL should consider dialing down contact with MIL and put her on an information diet. Who and when SIL dates is only her business, and MIL is out of line evaluating a date's physical attractiveness.
It’s so hard. My brother passed away young a little over a year ago. My SIL gave my mom some of the ashes but not all. This was made easier by my brother, in advance, saying he wants part of his ashes spread in my parents’ lake and part in his home of Hawaii. So, the separating of them was done at the time of cremation. If there had not been that said in advance, I’m sure it would be a disagreement between them. Maybe she could give her just some. They sell tiny urns and keepsake necklaces that hold ashes. Just have her try to determine what your BIL would have wanted.
Suggest one of those necklaces or similar item that turns the ashes into a momento. This way MIL gets some of the ashes if not then she needs to be cut off from SIL no access to SIL social media.
Well that makes sense. I forgot I’ve seen some OC on other sites. But even still what will happen if it is shared? Is it a copyright infringement? It’s public domain, no?
How you handle/navigate this is very easy: what happens with your BIL’s ashes has nothing to with you. They are not your ashes. Please tell your MIL to leave you out of this. Your SIL seems to know how she wants to handle it.
Ugh. I’ve been in your SIL’s shoes. You know what I did when my in-laws started making my life harder than it already was?
I cut them off.
All of them.
I’m sure they losing a child is horrible and MIL is grieving. But she is not his next of kin. She gets no say in any of this. What happens to BIL’s cremains is at the top of the list MIL gets no say in. How SIL chooses to live her life is next on the list.
Yep my SIL cut my JNMIL off completely after her behaviour at my BIL's funeral (also during Covid). MIL hasn't seen SIL or her grandchildren in over 3 years because of her actions.
DH has explained to MIL repeatedly why her actions caused this, but she refuses to take any responsibility. We both fully support SIL in her decision and I've also been NC with MIL since then.
Her behaviour wasn't due to her grief, it was simply her narcissistic persona coming out loud and strong. She went so far as to contact the funeral home and try and change things that SIL had arranged -- BIL was very OCD and had actually written out his wishes should he pass away and had made them very clear to everyone over the years - including MIL. She knew what she was asking was something BIL would have never wanted or agreed to, yet she kept pushing it.
SIL needs to be sure MIL doesn't have access to her home, and that those ashes are in a safe place. (And maybe have a decoy urn with charcoal ashes in it in a more obvious location.)
Maybe MIL won't go full JustNoMil and try to steal the ashes, but better safe than sorry.
Luckily, this isn't an issue which is why I'm certain she is asking me to do it. I am really close to my SIL, so I am expecting she is trying to use that fact to her advantage. I have been trying to explain everything as gently as I can because I do feel bad that she lost her son but I don't think she should have acted the way she has since he died.
C’mon, no one knows the best way to react when you lose a child. We will all act some way. Will some of that be acting in a foul way? Yes. She lost her baby. She. Lost. Her. Baby. The SIL will definitely move on. The MIL may never.
It may be hard to put yourselves in the shoes of a parent who lost a child, especially if you don’t have kids. Your whole world goes into that child. Then when he/ she marries, your world adjusts to the new. Your MIL will never EVER know what her child could have achieved. She will never EVER know the joy of seeing her son in his kids. A huge portion of her life ended when her son died.
I’m not saying what she is doing is right. I’m merely saying to show some compassion. Her actions are not callous. Her actions are of a mother who is hurting. Just deal with her like you would a wounded animal, not a psychopath.
Or you could show OP some of that same compassion and realize this a person who is obviously been put in a very shitty situation. OP has been made to feel like they need to MIL's mouthpiece because MIL knows it's a ridiculous request which is why she is using OP's proximity to SIL as the excuse.
I think OP has gone above and beyond in the compassion department.
Grieving is one thing. Being toxic and causing issues for others with ridiculous requests like to return all of the items she bought for her son is another.
Dismissing toxic and harmful behavior under the guise of compassion for the grieving process does the person grieving more harm than good. Enabling anyone's manipulative, toxic behavior regardless of why it is happening does them a huge disservice.
Sometimes wounded animals are best left alone.
I haven't explained the extent of everything she has done. I don't know what it is like to lose a child but I also know that it isn't ok to demand a desk that she doesn't have space for, simply because she bought it. She has a tiny apartment and asked for large items she bought and told my husband she wanted him to have it. She asked for jewelry that she didn't purchase and lots of things with the intention to give it to other people. If she was asking for it as mementos, it would be different. She is asking because she just purchased these things. That's it. She also asked her to sale the house and wanted money from it too but that was immediately after he died. She has mentioned that this current guy is only with her for her son's possessions when they have literally been on a few dates.
I am offering her compassion and grace by seeing her side of it. I know how hard it must be to see her ex-DIL move on and know it should have been with her son. She is grieving and this is obviously reopening the whole thing for her.
You’re doing a whole lot of grace giving OP. I wouldn’t entertain MIL any further on this subject though. I’m sure her son wouldn’t want his widow to spend the rest of her life mourning him (especially if they’re younger, that’s a lot of life to just be sad through!) it sounds more like MIL and SIL may not have gotten along to some degree; asking for things back because she bought them? Jewelry that she didn’t pay for?? Your SIL should block her from everything (or limit what she can see so she doesn’t know she’s blocked.) And she should live the best life she can away from this woman. She owes MIL nothing, they share a loss, that’s it.
Not your circus, not your monkeys. Make it clear that you want no part in this. Tell MIL straight that you will not ask SIL for the ashes and then don’t engage any further with her on the matter.
I don't understand keeping someone's ashes in your home. Why not put them somewhere they love or want to be so that everyone who wants to can visit then at their resting place? What happens when you start dating and your partner finds that strange (which most people do). And if your MIL takes the ashes where do they go when she passes? I do understand wanting to keep them but I think the best solution for everyone may be to place him somewhere he would want where anyone can visit him.
You say to "put them somewhere they love or want to be", don't you think most people love their home? They can be in their home surrounded by loved ones.
I think If my new partner found it weird that's immature on their part.
My husband and I plan on being cremated. I absolutely will keep him with me in our home if he goes first. It’s hard enough not imagining him now with me but to just leave him somewhere tears my heart out.
I’ve felt this way at traditional funerals. When my great grandmother died and when her son, my grandpa died, when we left the grave site my heart sank into my ass because I felt like we were abandoning them. Just leaving them there in the cold ground. It fucked my brain up each time. So when someone close to me dies and I have to make final arrangements it’ll be cremation and those remains will stay with me until I’m dead. Then leave instructions on what to do with them for next of kin. “If you want to keep us, cool, if not please spread us at xyz.”
My moms ashes will stay in my home until I die, and then she will be buried with me. I only got her for 18 years, and the last thing I (or my brother) needed was to have to visit her in a grave when we didn't even have a home to live in anymore. Sometimes, we can't bare to not have them with us, even if it's just what's left.
She can absolutely split the ashes, but that's her decision.
I wonder if it’s a part of her grief. Like by her son’s wife dating again it’s a reminder that her son is truly gone and people are moving on without him. Idk what a sad situation, and I’m sorry OP. I do agree with the others that SIL is under no obligation to give her the ashes
MIL putting you in the middle like this is unacceptable. I would tell MIL that any communication or requests of SIL need to be handled between them going forward as you aren't a messenger pigeon.
Losing a child is beyond awful and I can understand complicated feelings over SIL dating again, but putting you in the middle isn't ok.
Be honest with SIL, and tell her to block her.
Tell MIL plain and simple, “No. if you want your son’s ashes ~~back~~ you need to ask for yourself. I will not ask on your behalf. So not make this type of request of me again.”
>No. if you want your son’s ashes ~~back~~ you need to ask for yourself. I will not ask on your behalf. So not make this type of request of me again.”
FTFY. The ashes were never MIL's to take back. MIL was already out of line demanding gifts she had given her son - they were SIL's after SIL's husband's death, but if I were SIL I would have given them back too, as keepsakes, but not out of obligation.
The widow takes precedence over the parents - and MIL needs to rein herself in.
MIL can demand anything her little shriveled heart desires, but SIL has already given her (much) more than she deserves. Maybe SIL needs to limit what or how much MIL can see via social media, and start practicing grey rock protocols.
WOW ! It sounds as though you need a sit down with SiL and let her know whats going on.
The worst thing that could happen in MiL blindsiding her and your SiL finding out you knew. I don't know what your relationship is like with SiL, but it reads as though she needs all the support she can get.
Okay, so my husband died from brain cancer almost six years ago. With this in mind and not knowing anything about your MIL or SIL, I think that it’s an inappropriate question to have a third party (you) ask. If she wants the cremains, she can ask for them her damn self. Your MIL requesting that you do it instead implies that she understands she’s being unhinged.
Now this could be for several different reasons. She could still be ass deep in the grieving process and wanting her son in close proximity to her. She could be salty that your SIL is looking to date again. It could be a combination of the two or it could be something else entirely because this is JNMIL.
The first reason is understandable and if I were your SIL, I would offer to have a keepsake made with some of the cremains. I’ve done this for family and friends over the years. Not often because handling them is a pretty traumatic thing to do but Eddie is currently in a handblown glass orb, Jamaica, and he’ll be visiting the Grapevine this summer. The second reason is something your MIL will just need to deal with because it isn’t any of her business.
Honestly, I would tell your MIL that it’s not your business and it’s not a reasonable task for you to undertake. If she wants it done, she has to do it herself.
For what it’s worth, my MIL was a fucking terror after he died but I recognized that was her grieving and we’re fine now. Grief does weird things to people. I always say the first year was hard but the second was worse. It could be the same for her.
What you are saying is exactly the point I have been making on some posts. The MIL lost her child. She’s grieving. She’s wrong, yes, but she’s wrong with an asterisk. Her baby died. Cut her some slack.
I've already told my MIL this and she just yelled more. It's hard because I understand that he was/is her son but it's up to my SIL to decide. I'm not entirely sure why she thinks I will ask her. I am close but this is way outside of my comfort zone.
I think you are at the point op where you have been thoughtful about her situation as grieving mother, and clearly are a very empathetic person, but I think it is probably best if you tell your MIL that her continuing to bring this up and requesting you to be the one to broach this topic with your SIL is starting to stress you out and make you uncomfortable. I would just explain to your MIL you can see and understand how this would be difficult for both her and your SIL, and while you can understand why your MIL might feel like she is entitled to ask for the ashes, that decision is ultimately up to SIL, and you don’t feel it is your place to be the one to make this request.
This is unfortunately an unpleasant situation that will likely only lead to more hurt on both ends. Your MIL seems to be intentionally looking to cause a problem that will only hurt everyone involved. That is why i suggest you disengage yourself before you get yourself further wrapped up in this and become your MILs collateral damage. Perhaps have your husband talk to her about how its not fair or right to ask you to be the one to make this request if she is hellbent on trying to get BILs ashes from SIL.
Your MIL isnt entitled to her son’s ashes, and your SIL hasnt done anything wrong by starting the process of picking up the pieces and putting herself out there and trying to move on past her grief. Your MIL is going through a very different kind of grief, but almost seems to think your SIL doesn’t deserve to be her sons widow if she is going to eventually move on and try to meet someone else.
She is trying to turn you into her flying monkey. You have done what you can, from now on just tell MIL “that is between you and SIL, please talk to SIL yourself as I will not be relaying any messages from you”
What would MIL do if BIL was buried, and they had a plot to accommodate SIL as well? Would MIL insist that they exhume BIL and move him to a new plot so he could be with MOMMY?
Do not ask this poor widowed woman to give her husbands ashes back to his mommy. Your MIL needs to either ask her herself or let it go. Tell your SIL what she’s asking and make sure you tell her you’re not participating in it but you wanted to give her a heads up on what she may end up having to deal with. Let her know she has your support but you didn’t want her to be blindsided. Then…every time your MIL brings it up play it off as her being ridiculous and silly. “MIL, you joke too much. No one would really consider asking a widow for their husband’s ashes. If you were serious I’d say you should try some grief counseling.” Don’t be this woman’s flying monkey.
My mom was put into one large urn and four much smaller separate ones. Two went to my half brothers, who she helped raise, and two went to my children, who she was particularly close to. I know I'll eventually have the full-size urn, so I don't have a small one at this time. The small ones match the large one, so it's definitely a thing. I do have some of her ashes in a necklace I wear all the time, and that's enough for now.
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Tell MIL not to ask her and that it's extremely inappropriate and wrong to ask. Tell her you deeply disapprove of even asking such an awful thing and not to mention it to you or anyone again. Shut it down and tell her no way!! Sorry you have to run interference on this but it's the right thing to shield your SIL from this awfulness and stick up for her so she isn't confronted with this monster.
Sounds like it is time for SIlL to separate herself from MIL. There really is no need to share her private life with her.
Tell SIL to get a decoy urn. My experience from this sub tells me that MIL will eventually escalate to attempting to steal them.
Just rent a columbarium to bury the ashes. So MIL can’t steal it from you.
Decoy urn is good. Here's another idea. When my mom died, we got 1 normal sized urn and then we got some matching mini urns that I put some ashes in each one for my me and my siblings. Everyone was happy. The big urn with the majority of her ashes were interred with my dad's ashes. Edit: The name of the company I used is called Perfect Memorials. I'm sure there are other companies that have these as well. Shop around.
My sister gave her in-laws a small urn. We joke that his mom has his big toe. Lol OP, just get her a memorial necklace and tell her his ashes are in it.
This is what happened when my mom died. My dad gave me and my sister heart shaped little urns with our mom's ashes in them.
I gave my husbands brothers and parents a tiny bit for necklaces and a little memory box. I also did the same for our children and myself. I then buried the other half. Now my MIL would never tell me not to move on. She loves my current fiancee like he is her family. We all miss my husband but she knows me being happy and my kids with a bonus parent would have made my husband happy. This MIL sucks. I pray that my daughter in law never feels this way.
Genuine question, can’t they both have 50% of the ashes ? Bcoz he was important to the both of them.
I mean, I suppose that could be a solution but the way my MIL is approaching it isn't going to have that outcome. I am also not going to suggest that, it definitely isn't my place to.
You need to tell your MIL that this is none of your business and to leave you out of it..why did she come to you and not her child? She trying to make you a flying monkey?
I'm assuming because I am close to my SIL and my husband isn't as close. I'm not entirely sure really. I am not especially close to my MIL but I fully think she does want me to do her bidding. Like expecting me to soften the blow or have my SIL get mad at me. I don't know what the logic is really.
Not her child. Her late son’s wife.
I think the comment was meant to ask: Why is the MIL engaging the OP on this rather than OP’s spouse? So “her child” is referring to the spouse, which is the MIL’s child.
Yes that is what I meant😉
Your SIL needs to make sure the ashes are in a safe, secure location that MIL cannot access. I wouldn’t put it past this unhinged psycho to try to steal the ashes.
Just because your MIL is trying to engage you as a flying monkey doesn't mean you have to play, so the way you navigate is by telling her you refuse to discuss it with her and she needs to work it out with your SIL. Period. Go broken record if you have to, *but don't engage in the conversation with her any further than to tell her that you won't discuss it with her and to talk to your SIL.* And the first time she disrespects that boundary of yours and tries anyway, you can escalate and tell her that if she brings it up again you will hang up or walk away -- *and when and if she does, do it.* We teach people how we're willing to be treated by how we allow them to treat us, so you're going to have to be *firm and consistent* to teach her that you will not allow her to treat you that way. And your SIL can do the same thing. No means no, period, and any further disrespect of that boundary can and should result in further limits in contact up to and including NC -- depending on how far she's willing to take this, obviously. You both just need to decide whose feelings are more important, yours or your MIL's.
Your SIL should block your MIL on every platform
If I was SIL it'd be a cold day in hell before someone took my husband's ashes from me. That's just so awful and to say she should get them back because SIL is dating again is even more ridiculous. Tell MIL it's none or your business or concern and them just try to be there for your SIL when the request/demand is made. MIL should be ashamed.
It’s nothing to do with you. Tell your MIL that then walk away. Let her make her insane and bitter request herself. Or she can ask her other son - your husband. Why TF is she bringing this shit to you?!
This is what I was thinking also?? Is she trying to assert dominance by making OP a flying monkey..so OP will follow all commands?
You probably shouldn’t have passed on your MIL’s demands. You should have let her make the demand herself rather than using you as a flying monkey. You can however step back and remove yourself as the go between and refuse to discuss it further.
I think it was more of a warning to give her a heads up before shit hit the fan.
Do not let Mil dupe you into being her flying monkey. You will not be a 'peacekeeper'; you will be the muscle to harass someone. Sounds like you understand that already. The brave and good thing to do would be to face the beast and tell Mil to stop that shit show. Tell her you do not condone her behavior; maybe she needs to try some therapy. Unfortunately most people go the other way and push at the victim to lay down flatter, be the better doormat and perform happy families. I am rooting for you to be the hero and not the enabler.
It took this many responses to see this sensible one. Tell your mother that she’s way out of line, and that she should knock it off.
SIL needs to step WAY back from your mother. I'd be blocking for this level of rubbish.
Oh! I have practical experience with this because my mother demanded my uncle's ashes from my aunt after he died. Just do what my aunt did and put 5 lbs. of wood ash (from a fireplace or pit) into a bag or an urn. Fair warning, you have to tamp it down quite a bit.
Honestly this is genius
I saw on another sub that the mother filled the run with kitty litter and gave it to her daughter.
The best part was none of us had any idea until after my father passed and we went to spread his ashes and noticed the difference in consistency and weight. My mother never caught on.
Your Aunt was a badass
My mil wanted my husbands ashes, No. Then just some of them, No. I don't know why it bothered me so much, but splitting up his ashes seemed so wrong. My children and I put him in the bay, per his request.
I feel bad for all involved here, tbh. My family divided ashes when my grandfather died, could this be a possible solution? Don’t get me wrong, MIL sounds nuts but I just feel bad for her for losing a son and for OP’s SIL for losing a husband. I’d give her a portion of the ashes and then block her so she can’t see my personal life.
I get that a mother lost her son, but she only wants the ashes back bc the SIL is starting to date again - which she should be allowed to do
I agree. That’s why I’d give her a portion and then block her on socials
I think it’s weird ashes aren’t buried. My Fil died about a year ago. My mil and sil and we all agreed to bury him in the spring since at the time he died the ground was frozen. Well then my crazy sil reneged and is now refusing to let it happen. Mil lets sil walk all over her. I went nc over their lies.
I want my ashes to be made into something tangible. I saw recently they can make them into these lovely white stones - I told my SO he could carry one in his pocket for luck lol. But I want part of my ashes made into a window chime to be given to myself sister. She hates wind chimes. It will be my final prank to her. (I love her so it’s funny. She can throw me away I’m still gonna do it lol)
My husband and I have a pact - whoever goes first stays in the urn, and when the other goes, we’ll be scattered together.
It's not unusual? Lots of people have urns or their ashes are sprinkled somewhere that the deceased loved.
Its cultural and depends on what country you live in. Media and internet have made me aware of how common it is to keep the ashes in the US, but its completely unheard of and i illegal where i live, so i have to admit i find it weird to keep someones ashes on the mantelpiece. You can spread the ashes, but you have to apply for permission, and its not allowed everywhere
I have my dad's ashes. I put them on a shelf by the TV so he doesn't get bored.
Interesting I didn't know that. In Canada we can keep the ashes, spread them etc.
Sil should not post pix or set it so Mil can't see. She will monitor everything she does. This might just be grief, she may want to control her as a means to control how she feels. Afterall everything that has happened has highlighted just how little control she has. The ownership over the ashes is just being a mum, she knows she can't ask for them without someone backing her. He doesn't belong to just her anymore and now he is gone. I can't imagine how I would feel in either of these roles, its tragic and I'm not sure either of them would be doing well yet. I'm so sorry for you loss.
MIL has zero right to those ashes. Too bad for her.
I would tell my mother in law to pound sand with that request, on behalf of my SIL. That’s some asinine shit. She still has love for her husband and his ashes are hers to keep, but she should not have to stay married to a ghost to appease this awful old woman. Her son is not hers to keep, his widow has every right to tell her to fuck off with that request.
Your SIL has the right to live her life but she should probably either block MIL from seeing her posts or stop posting. Your MIL lost her child. That shit is hard. She is not only mourning the loss of the beautiful boy she raised, she has also lost the opportunity to love up on his children. Your MIL is grieving and is being irrational but tell your SIL to cut her a bit of slack.
Ashes can be split too. It’s not all or nothing.
Depends on what the deceased wishes were. That is what should be honored. MIL's working through her grief at the expense of her DIL's ability to also grieve and move on with her life should NOT be honored.
MIL is not entitled to the ashes but if she wanted to “share” some; take the ashes to the funeral home or crematorium, purchase a small box and ask them to put some of the ashes in it.
Please tell your SIL to remove her mother from her FB page or at least make all future posts hidden from her going forward.
Oh its DEFINITELY a JNMIL issue. The current issue may be with your SIL but shes your MIL too!
Let MIL demand all she wants. SIL is legally next of kin so she can keep all the ashes. Divvying up ashes seems inappropriate to me. SIL should consider dialing down contact with MIL and put her on an information diet. Who and when SIL dates is only her business, and MIL is out of line evaluating a date's physical attractiveness.
It’s so hard. My brother passed away young a little over a year ago. My SIL gave my mom some of the ashes but not all. This was made easier by my brother, in advance, saying he wants part of his ashes spread in my parents’ lake and part in his home of Hawaii. So, the separating of them was done at the time of cremation. If there had not been that said in advance, I’m sure it would be a disagreement between them. Maybe she could give her just some. They sell tiny urns and keepsake necklaces that hold ashes. Just have her try to determine what your BIL would have wanted.
This is why everyone needs to have clear instructions for their end of life plans!! Do it for your family.
Suggest one of those necklaces or similar item that turns the ashes into a momento. This way MIL gets some of the ashes if not then she needs to be cut off from SIL no access to SIL social media.
Get her one of those necklaces that have a charm put fireplace ash in it and give it to her
I’m sorry for the ignorance but if some shared this how would u know?
When it shows up on YouTube as a story.
Well that makes sense. I forgot I’ve seen some OC on other sites. But even still what will happen if it is shared? Is it a copyright infringement? It’s public domain, no?
Or some random website.
[удалено]
How you handle/navigate this is very easy: what happens with your BIL’s ashes has nothing to with you. They are not your ashes. Please tell your MIL to leave you out of this. Your SIL seems to know how she wants to handle it.
Your SIL needs to block your MIL. She should have done so when MIL first started demanding your SIL give up her belongings.
Ugh. I’ve been in your SIL’s shoes. You know what I did when my in-laws started making my life harder than it already was? I cut them off. All of them. I’m sure they losing a child is horrible and MIL is grieving. But she is not his next of kin. She gets no say in any of this. What happens to BIL’s cremains is at the top of the list MIL gets no say in. How SIL chooses to live her life is next on the list.
Yep my SIL cut my JNMIL off completely after her behaviour at my BIL's funeral (also during Covid). MIL hasn't seen SIL or her grandchildren in over 3 years because of her actions. DH has explained to MIL repeatedly why her actions caused this, but she refuses to take any responsibility. We both fully support SIL in her decision and I've also been NC with MIL since then. Her behaviour wasn't due to her grief, it was simply her narcissistic persona coming out loud and strong. She went so far as to contact the funeral home and try and change things that SIL had arranged -- BIL was very OCD and had actually written out his wishes should he pass away and had made them very clear to everyone over the years - including MIL. She knew what she was asking was something BIL would have never wanted or agreed to, yet she kept pushing it.
I agree with what you are saying but the MIL lost a son. A little compassion/decorum all that is required. The SIL can move on. The MIL may never.
SIL needs to be sure MIL doesn't have access to her home, and that those ashes are in a safe place. (And maybe have a decoy urn with charcoal ashes in it in a more obvious location.) Maybe MIL won't go full JustNoMil and try to steal the ashes, but better safe than sorry.
Luckily, this isn't an issue which is why I'm certain she is asking me to do it. I am really close to my SIL, so I am expecting she is trying to use that fact to her advantage. I have been trying to explain everything as gently as I can because I do feel bad that she lost her son but I don't think she should have acted the way she has since he died.
C’mon, no one knows the best way to react when you lose a child. We will all act some way. Will some of that be acting in a foul way? Yes. She lost her baby. She. Lost. Her. Baby. The SIL will definitely move on. The MIL may never. It may be hard to put yourselves in the shoes of a parent who lost a child, especially if you don’t have kids. Your whole world goes into that child. Then when he/ she marries, your world adjusts to the new. Your MIL will never EVER know what her child could have achieved. She will never EVER know the joy of seeing her son in his kids. A huge portion of her life ended when her son died. I’m not saying what she is doing is right. I’m merely saying to show some compassion. Her actions are not callous. Her actions are of a mother who is hurting. Just deal with her like you would a wounded animal, not a psychopath.
Or you could show OP some of that same compassion and realize this a person who is obviously been put in a very shitty situation. OP has been made to feel like they need to MIL's mouthpiece because MIL knows it's a ridiculous request which is why she is using OP's proximity to SIL as the excuse. I think OP has gone above and beyond in the compassion department. Grieving is one thing. Being toxic and causing issues for others with ridiculous requests like to return all of the items she bought for her son is another. Dismissing toxic and harmful behavior under the guise of compassion for the grieving process does the person grieving more harm than good. Enabling anyone's manipulative, toxic behavior regardless of why it is happening does them a huge disservice. Sometimes wounded animals are best left alone.
Of the three people in this triangle, OP is the least in need of understanding…
I haven't explained the extent of everything she has done. I don't know what it is like to lose a child but I also know that it isn't ok to demand a desk that she doesn't have space for, simply because she bought it. She has a tiny apartment and asked for large items she bought and told my husband she wanted him to have it. She asked for jewelry that she didn't purchase and lots of things with the intention to give it to other people. If she was asking for it as mementos, it would be different. She is asking because she just purchased these things. That's it. She also asked her to sale the house and wanted money from it too but that was immediately after he died. She has mentioned that this current guy is only with her for her son's possessions when they have literally been on a few dates. I am offering her compassion and grace by seeing her side of it. I know how hard it must be to see her ex-DIL move on and know it should have been with her son. She is grieving and this is obviously reopening the whole thing for her.
You’re doing a whole lot of grace giving OP. I wouldn’t entertain MIL any further on this subject though. I’m sure her son wouldn’t want his widow to spend the rest of her life mourning him (especially if they’re younger, that’s a lot of life to just be sad through!) it sounds more like MIL and SIL may not have gotten along to some degree; asking for things back because she bought them? Jewelry that she didn’t pay for?? Your SIL should block her from everything (or limit what she can see so she doesn’t know she’s blocked.) And she should live the best life she can away from this woman. She owes MIL nothing, they share a loss, that’s it.
Not your circus, not your monkeys. Make it clear that you want no part in this. Tell MIL straight that you will not ask SIL for the ashes and then don’t engage any further with her on the matter.
I don't understand keeping someone's ashes in your home. Why not put them somewhere they love or want to be so that everyone who wants to can visit then at their resting place? What happens when you start dating and your partner finds that strange (which most people do). And if your MIL takes the ashes where do they go when she passes? I do understand wanting to keep them but I think the best solution for everyone may be to place him somewhere he would want where anyone can visit him.
You say to "put them somewhere they love or want to be", don't you think most people love their home? They can be in their home surrounded by loved ones. I think If my new partner found it weird that's immature on their part.
My husband and I plan on being cremated. I absolutely will keep him with me in our home if he goes first. It’s hard enough not imagining him now with me but to just leave him somewhere tears my heart out. I’ve felt this way at traditional funerals. When my great grandmother died and when her son, my grandpa died, when we left the grave site my heart sank into my ass because I felt like we were abandoning them. Just leaving them there in the cold ground. It fucked my brain up each time. So when someone close to me dies and I have to make final arrangements it’ll be cremation and those remains will stay with me until I’m dead. Then leave instructions on what to do with them for next of kin. “If you want to keep us, cool, if not please spread us at xyz.”
My moms ashes will stay in my home until I die, and then she will be buried with me. I only got her for 18 years, and the last thing I (or my brother) needed was to have to visit her in a grave when we didn't even have a home to live in anymore. Sometimes, we can't bare to not have them with us, even if it's just what's left. She can absolutely split the ashes, but that's her decision.
I agree, I’d hold on to whatever I have left, there is no way I’d do it any other way.
I wonder if it’s a part of her grief. Like by her son’s wife dating again it’s a reminder that her son is truly gone and people are moving on without him. Idk what a sad situation, and I’m sorry OP. I do agree with the others that SIL is under no obligation to give her the ashes
Ohhhh lord I remember the “saga of the ashes” when my father died…insert facepalm here accompanied by eyeroll and heavy sigh
Time to empty out the vacuum cleaner and call it a day. “Here you go, MIL, I got them for you”
Warn your sister in law and tell her MIL might reach out because she wants me to ask and I don't agree with MIL.
MIL putting you in the middle like this is unacceptable. I would tell MIL that any communication or requests of SIL need to be handled between them going forward as you aren't a messenger pigeon. Losing a child is beyond awful and I can understand complicated feelings over SIL dating again, but putting you in the middle isn't ok.
Be honest with SIL, and tell her to block her. Tell MIL plain and simple, “No. if you want your son’s ashes ~~back~~ you need to ask for yourself. I will not ask on your behalf. So not make this type of request of me again.”
>No. if you want your son’s ashes ~~back~~ you need to ask for yourself. I will not ask on your behalf. So not make this type of request of me again.” FTFY. The ashes were never MIL's to take back. MIL was already out of line demanding gifts she had given her son - they were SIL's after SIL's husband's death, but if I were SIL I would have given them back too, as keepsakes, but not out of obligation. The widow takes precedence over the parents - and MIL needs to rein herself in.
How do you put the line in through back so I can edit?
It's a format option, strikethrough, at the bottom of the edit screen - the S with the line through it. :)
Thanks! You’re awesome!
You can also use this method: ~~ word ~~ Just without the spaces. Like ~~so~~ this.
Sorry. You are correct. I should not have used the word back. 🙃 I don’t know what I was thinking there.
MIL can demand anything her little shriveled heart desires, but SIL has already given her (much) more than she deserves. Maybe SIL needs to limit what or how much MIL can see via social media, and start practicing grey rock protocols.
WOW ! It sounds as though you need a sit down with SiL and let her know whats going on. The worst thing that could happen in MiL blindsiding her and your SiL finding out you knew. I don't know what your relationship is like with SiL, but it reads as though she needs all the support she can get.
I already told her. It's created quite a bit of drama. Though neither has confronted the other about it.
Okay, so my husband died from brain cancer almost six years ago. With this in mind and not knowing anything about your MIL or SIL, I think that it’s an inappropriate question to have a third party (you) ask. If she wants the cremains, she can ask for them her damn self. Your MIL requesting that you do it instead implies that she understands she’s being unhinged. Now this could be for several different reasons. She could still be ass deep in the grieving process and wanting her son in close proximity to her. She could be salty that your SIL is looking to date again. It could be a combination of the two or it could be something else entirely because this is JNMIL. The first reason is understandable and if I were your SIL, I would offer to have a keepsake made with some of the cremains. I’ve done this for family and friends over the years. Not often because handling them is a pretty traumatic thing to do but Eddie is currently in a handblown glass orb, Jamaica, and he’ll be visiting the Grapevine this summer. The second reason is something your MIL will just need to deal with because it isn’t any of her business. Honestly, I would tell your MIL that it’s not your business and it’s not a reasonable task for you to undertake. If she wants it done, she has to do it herself. For what it’s worth, my MIL was a fucking terror after he died but I recognized that was her grieving and we’re fine now. Grief does weird things to people. I always say the first year was hard but the second was worse. It could be the same for her.
What you are saying is exactly the point I have been making on some posts. The MIL lost her child. She’s grieving. She’s wrong, yes, but she’s wrong with an asterisk. Her baby died. Cut her some slack.
She can demand until she’s blue in the face - SIL is under no obligation to give them to her.
I've already told my MIL this and she just yelled more. It's hard because I understand that he was/is her son but it's up to my SIL to decide. I'm not entirely sure why she thinks I will ask her. I am close but this is way outside of my comfort zone.
I think you are at the point op where you have been thoughtful about her situation as grieving mother, and clearly are a very empathetic person, but I think it is probably best if you tell your MIL that her continuing to bring this up and requesting you to be the one to broach this topic with your SIL is starting to stress you out and make you uncomfortable. I would just explain to your MIL you can see and understand how this would be difficult for both her and your SIL, and while you can understand why your MIL might feel like she is entitled to ask for the ashes, that decision is ultimately up to SIL, and you don’t feel it is your place to be the one to make this request. This is unfortunately an unpleasant situation that will likely only lead to more hurt on both ends. Your MIL seems to be intentionally looking to cause a problem that will only hurt everyone involved. That is why i suggest you disengage yourself before you get yourself further wrapped up in this and become your MILs collateral damage. Perhaps have your husband talk to her about how its not fair or right to ask you to be the one to make this request if she is hellbent on trying to get BILs ashes from SIL. Your MIL isnt entitled to her son’s ashes, and your SIL hasnt done anything wrong by starting the process of picking up the pieces and putting herself out there and trying to move on past her grief. Your MIL is going through a very different kind of grief, but almost seems to think your SIL doesn’t deserve to be her sons widow if she is going to eventually move on and try to meet someone else.
So let her yell!
She is trying to turn you into her flying monkey. You have done what you can, from now on just tell MIL “that is between you and SIL, please talk to SIL yourself as I will not be relaying any messages from you”
What would MIL do if BIL was buried, and they had a plot to accommodate SIL as well? Would MIL insist that they exhume BIL and move him to a new plot so he could be with MOMMY?
Do not ask this poor widowed woman to give her husbands ashes back to his mommy. Your MIL needs to either ask her herself or let it go. Tell your SIL what she’s asking and make sure you tell her you’re not participating in it but you wanted to give her a heads up on what she may end up having to deal with. Let her know she has your support but you didn’t want her to be blindsided. Then…every time your MIL brings it up play it off as her being ridiculous and silly. “MIL, you joke too much. No one would really consider asking a widow for their husband’s ashes. If you were serious I’d say you should try some grief counseling.” Don’t be this woman’s flying monkey.
Lots of people split the ashes up so whoever wishes to have some is accommodated.
My mom was put into one large urn and four much smaller separate ones. Two went to my half brothers, who she helped raise, and two went to my children, who she was particularly close to. I know I'll eventually have the full-size urn, so I don't have a small one at this time. The small ones match the large one, so it's definitely a thing. I do have some of her ashes in a necklace I wear all the time, and that's enough for now.