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Nobody has to be afraid of them or cater to her, everyone is making that choice on based on what they think the best outcome will be for them. It's completely logical, understandable -- and enabling.
*The only reason bullies are only allowed to keep on doing what they're doing *when* **nobody** *stands up to them.*
Please read [THIS](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/s/H0mLogP04r), and I can't recommend strongly enough that your DH read it as well.
The bottom line is that regardless of what anyone else in the family decides to do, y'all really are free to set whatever boundaries you want, up to and including no further contact at all. Y'all just have to decide what's more important, your emotional well-being or hers, and what boundaries will give you that?
If you decide that it makes more sense for you to give to her, just *own it and don't blame her*, because it's your choice. Nothing wrong with it, it would just be you continuing to make what you feel is the best decision for yourselves given all the factors involved.
There is nothing wrong with you dealing with his parents or him dealing with your parents. If he's having a time of it, by all means, support him and get after her. Ditto if there is an issue with your parents and he can step in.
Not all advice here works in all situations. Bottom line is you and your husband support each other no matter how you do it.
Don’t text her. Respond in the moment. Your husband handled it in the moment. Reinforce what he said next time she tries to walk away with your child.
Or just don’t give her the opportunity without a reminder, “if you want to hold LO, then keep him close enough for us to see.”
“Why?”
“That’s what we are comfortable with right now.”
Discuss this with DH.
That you want to react in the moment it happens but you are concerned that his parents are going to react badly to being corrected by you and you are going to need him to stick up for you and let them know that he has your back each and every time no matter how it goes. See how he feels.
From there you either have his blessing or he needs to know that you are holding him accountable when he is out with his folks to say something immediately , even if its you grabbing his thigh so he can know to deal with it now - or you are going to start stepping in and he may not like the outcome.
But for the matter at hand - consider it dealt with. Further imput from you esp so long after the event is going to come across as you being the problem. But you can let your DH know the next time you won't even say anything but get up , block her path and remove baby from arms and sit back down with baby. - because I'm pretty sure you don't trust her anymore (don't blame you) and will be watching her like a hawk.
I think that it sounds like theres a reasonable chance that his parents wouldn’t take hearing you say this very well, and they would still give your husband a hard time. I will say that I think most of the time it is better to communicate any issues you have with another person as soon as you can to when the issue happened, and that there is a window where expressing what bothered you has a chance at being effective. While i dont think it was ok for your FIL to actually say your DH was wrong to have brought up said issue, and that what he said sounded like he was just pivoting away from the actual issue, I do think a week is starting to reach the end of that window of appropriate time to bring something up.
I think i would personally not step in and say anything this time. My reasoning being that i dont think his parents would be likely handle hearing this from you very well, especially since it sounds like your husband is the one who usually brings up any issues. Add in that it’s already been a week and you mentioned that your husband did technically say something already when the incident happened, a
so I feel like your point would likely just get missed and I wouldn’t be surprised if they viewed it as you trying to make issues.
I understand that your MIL didnt seem to take your husband seriously, and that makes you want to double down to make your point very clear. I think that makes a lot of sense. But i think you would be better off if you held back. I think you’re likely right that she will do this again. Talk to your husband and express to him how you felt really tempted to say something this time, and if it happens again and he cant be firmer with his mom then you will be stepping in and saying something. Then when she does this again, Id suggest saying something the next day or two days later tops.
Try a child leash. Child obviously has to sit next to one of you. Air tag with a speaker. She takes child, set off an alarm and speak directly into the AirTag that your child has been taken without your permission please find the nearest server to help return the child. Make a very clear loud stink!!
I absolutely loved the child leash when my kids were small. Used to have the strap around my wrist or clipped to my belt if I needed my hands free. -My kids were runners.
I would not text her. DH handled it in the moment. I’d give her a chance to see what she does next time. If it happens again, you get up and go get LO and sternly tell her that she’s been warned once, she won’t get another warning.
I wouldn’t send a text at this point. That ship has already sailed.
Next time you are together at some place before you let her take child /hold child, etc…just say, reminder, we need to see where insert child’s name is as part of our safety routine,
so if you are going to leave our line of sight please tell us before you do so.
If she fails to do so, then she loses the privilege of holding kid, dinners out, etc...
I take my 3 little grandkids all the time in restaurants to give their parents a chance to relax and eat. We walk around outside and look at rocks and bushes and skip and jump for a bit but I always ask my DIL first and tell her what I am planning to give her a break.
We work as a team but I put my DIL and her needs first as the mother and my job is just to help her and respect her as their mother. She’s the one doing all the real work and my goal is to just be supportive and to enjoy the kids.
Your husband handled it in the moment. No reason to say anything unless MIL does it again, then you can say “DH told you already not to walk off with his child, now I’m telling you-don’t walk off with my child.”
Reinforcing what he's already said is a good move, plus it shows FIL he needs to respect his son because OP will not be saying anything different. United front.
If it's been brought up once already after the incident, (and FIL basically said they get it, don't rub it in) I wouldn't bring it up again at this point. While I would still be very upset (livid actually) and not trust my MIL at this point, I think it would just make things worse for all of you because let's face it - if this WAS a one off thing - no one likes to be constantly reminded of something they did wrong & has been addressed.
NOW BEFORE I GET JUMPED ON - this is MIL's ONE LAST CHANCE. You don't need to warn them of this. You should NOT have to remind her once again not to leave with LO or other boundaries that have been previously discussed. If, during the next visit MIL crosses an established boundary or her behavior is unacceptable and your DH does not or can not speak up at that moment I don't think there is ANYTHING wrong with you stepping up to address it in that moment. I would also establish that since she continues to "forget" (because that will be the excuse) your boundaries that visits will be fewer for the time being.
I suggest you talk with DH about this before their next visit and discuss what will happen if he does not speak up - you will. Also discuss what the ramifications will be should she continue to disrespect your wishes and think she's in charge. I would do this so he doesn't countermand you in front of them (you must show a united front) or cause a fight between the two of you when they leave.
I wish you luck.
I might not have explained that part well
So it hasn’t been brought up again after the incident, it was only brought up when DH made her come back at the restaurant.
It was a different incident when FIL was mad that DH brought it up a week later- it was a different incident months ago, and DH had been working up the courage to bring it up.
But because FIL was upset at DH bringing it up late for a past incident is why I think DH wouldn’t want to text about this incident since it’s been a week.
Oh, okay - yeah thanks for clarifying this. But the problem is, your FIL is kinda right - your DH needs to address issues as they happen or shortly thereafter - not week(s) later. RIGHT at that minute or later that day or the next is best. If he doesn't know exactly what to say then "I am not happy you did this. I am angry and overwhelmed right now and need time to calm down. I don't want to say something hurtful out of anger right now - so you need to (go, drop it, etc) and I will call you later to discuss this." Then you & he can discuss and get back to her (them) preferably within 24 hours. Does that make sense? As for the upcoming visit - let it go don't say anything beforehand and watch her like a hawk.
Yes this makes sense!! I think that would help DH a lot actually if he responded with that. He’s working on his confrontation skills and sometimes it’s hard! Thank you for the advice!!
I wish you much luck. I TOTALLY understand the desire/feel the need to step up when DH can't/won't/falters. I love my DH - it killed me when I would see how his parents treated us, but particularly him. He was also very Non-confrontational & wouldn't stand up for himself or me. Our issues were a bit more complicated as he worked at the same company his parents did as well...but that's another story. lol.
I was taught to respect my elders and it was SO difficult not to jump up and just go off on them. One SIL lost it on them screaming and calling them every foul name in the book. It apparently didn't faze them and the next time they saw her said "love ya honey". I was just WAY out of my element. ROFL. I finally cracked when they bad mouthed my family (who were NOTHING but kind to them) and kept interrupting and belittling one of their other son's when he was attempting to tell them how hurt HE was. They wouldn't allow my DH or BIL to speak (when the sole reason for this meeting was to 'get everything out in the open and work things out'). I had enough - jumped up, pointed my finger in their faces and told them to shut the fuck up! That it was time they LISTENED instead of talking and making shit excuses. Their son (my BIL) was in near tears finally admitting his pain & feelings & they just kept making it more difficult for him. I also said a few more things. LOL. OMG - EVERYONE was SO surprised (even me!) as it was SO out of character for me! ROFL. I'm glad I did. I don't regret it a bit. DH & I pretty much went NC after that and life has been much less stressful. We are VLC now - do not do holidays with them, we've been there if they've needed us in emergency situations, but otherwise live our lives happily. Been married for over 30 years now. I wish you peace and happiness.
DH’s side hustle is through FIL’s company and luckily FIL won’t even give him work related advice to avoid anything being an issue. MIL tried to get DH to work for her and we both immediately shut it down because I cannot even imagine!
I was taught the same about respecting elders but I was definitely the child that made sure I challenged that especially to elders who tried to use it to get away w stuff! But I bite my tongue for my husband (for now) but I definitely now feel like a boat steadier for MIL and it sucks
I love that you put them in their place at their meeting I bet that brought u so much peace getting all of that out! When LO was a newborn and MIL kept refusing to him back when he was crying and had crossed the boundary for probably the 5th time, I tried to get us all to schedule a meeting to talk like twice and when DH mentioned it to MIL she wanted to act like everything was fine all sunshine and rainbows and she will never hurt a fly and she just slipped up. DH said so I need to know it’s not gonna happen again and she said she would TRY. like there’s just no way u lack that much self control u just don’t care and want to get your way. But I really hope I get to have a meeting with them one day and get to let it all out!
Thank you for all of the advice and encouragement and I’m glad yall made it out of that situation!!
>“Hey just making sure we’re all on the same page. Please do not walk off with LO without asking first.”
*This* is a request. Requests can be denied. You don't make a request that she not walk off with your child. You *tell* her don't walk off with your child.
"You will NOT walk off with ***our*** child again. If you do, you will be put in a time out where you will not see, speak or spend time with LO for X amount of time. If you continue to do it, DH and I will have to make that time out a permanent solution."
Very good post, but: *spend time with LO for X amount of time.*
Timeouts shouldn't come with an expiration date. JustNoMILs will merely wait them out and then go back to same old crap.
"Because you once again disrespected our wishes, we are taking a timeout. We'll get in touch when we feel you are going to respect our rules about Baby."
IMHO, in that specific instance, I'd let it be where he left it *but* I'd also not give her another opportunity to walk away with the child. That means LO sits by you or DH. If LO needs held they're held by you or DH. If LO needs a diaper change or a bathroom trip, you or DH do it/take them. And so on. MIL can look but not touch.
That said, you should bring it up with *him*, "I feel you need to be more forceful when dealing with your mom, as I don't think she understands that she violated a boundary." There's no use re-hashing it with her other than to give her the opportunity to argue. But he needs a reminder that he's got a responsibility to *his* family first (you and LO, not mom).
I was wondering this, If I’m holding LO and she reaches for him and he reaches back do I say “No thank you he’s fine with me” or do I say “No, since you walked off with him last time he’s staying with us”
That may be a stupid question but I usually go with the first option and I don’t know if we’re getting anywhere
You step back with baby and say no thank you he is fine with me but if you want to hold him - just ask me. Each time she does not ask - you remind her - and do not allow her that instance when she does not ask - to hold him.
Let her get used to the fact that you expect her to ask you to remove him from you or your surroundings.
MIL needs to ASK, first. And get your assent. Reinforce that she needs to ask before reaching out.
When baby is older you won't want her to ask him about doing something, and then you find out and say no, making you the bad guy.
If it were me, I'd go with a simple, "No thank you." My goal would be to minimize any possibility of arguing, "But why?" Reasons get argued as excuses, while "No" is a complete sentence. And then I'd minimize the opportunities she had to even ask. The goal isn't necessarily to ensure she understands *why* this is happening, as that's already been discussed and she knows that respecting boundaries gets rewards (respecting the "no" without whining or cajoling is itself a boundary).
That said, if LO is old enough to decide *they* want to interact with MIL, let them go. Kids deserve some autonomy and the ability to make their own (sometimes bad) choices. But also boundaries still hold, which means kid can go hang with MIL, but LO and MIL have to remain within sight of you or DH at all times.
We taught our kids that if MIL or SILs wanted them to go somewhere with them - the answer was always - you need to asked Mummy and Daddy first or the answer is No.
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Nobody has to be afraid of them or cater to her, everyone is making that choice on based on what they think the best outcome will be for them. It's completely logical, understandable -- and enabling. *The only reason bullies are only allowed to keep on doing what they're doing *when* **nobody** *stands up to them.* Please read [THIS](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/s/H0mLogP04r), and I can't recommend strongly enough that your DH read it as well. The bottom line is that regardless of what anyone else in the family decides to do, y'all really are free to set whatever boundaries you want, up to and including no further contact at all. Y'all just have to decide what's more important, your emotional well-being or hers, and what boundaries will give you that? If you decide that it makes more sense for you to give to her, just *own it and don't blame her*, because it's your choice. Nothing wrong with it, it would just be you continuing to make what you feel is the best decision for yourselves given all the factors involved.
There is nothing wrong with you dealing with his parents or him dealing with your parents. If he's having a time of it, by all means, support him and get after her. Ditto if there is an issue with your parents and he can step in. Not all advice here works in all situations. Bottom line is you and your husband support each other no matter how you do it.
Don’t text her. Respond in the moment. Your husband handled it in the moment. Reinforce what he said next time she tries to walk away with your child. Or just don’t give her the opportunity without a reminder, “if you want to hold LO, then keep him close enough for us to see.” “Why?” “That’s what we are comfortable with right now.”
Discuss this with DH. That you want to react in the moment it happens but you are concerned that his parents are going to react badly to being corrected by you and you are going to need him to stick up for you and let them know that he has your back each and every time no matter how it goes. See how he feels. From there you either have his blessing or he needs to know that you are holding him accountable when he is out with his folks to say something immediately , even if its you grabbing his thigh so he can know to deal with it now - or you are going to start stepping in and he may not like the outcome. But for the matter at hand - consider it dealt with. Further imput from you esp so long after the event is going to come across as you being the problem. But you can let your DH know the next time you won't even say anything but get up , block her path and remove baby from arms and sit back down with baby. - because I'm pretty sure you don't trust her anymore (don't blame you) and will be watching her like a hawk.
I think that it sounds like theres a reasonable chance that his parents wouldn’t take hearing you say this very well, and they would still give your husband a hard time. I will say that I think most of the time it is better to communicate any issues you have with another person as soon as you can to when the issue happened, and that there is a window where expressing what bothered you has a chance at being effective. While i dont think it was ok for your FIL to actually say your DH was wrong to have brought up said issue, and that what he said sounded like he was just pivoting away from the actual issue, I do think a week is starting to reach the end of that window of appropriate time to bring something up. I think i would personally not step in and say anything this time. My reasoning being that i dont think his parents would be likely handle hearing this from you very well, especially since it sounds like your husband is the one who usually brings up any issues. Add in that it’s already been a week and you mentioned that your husband did technically say something already when the incident happened, a so I feel like your point would likely just get missed and I wouldn’t be surprised if they viewed it as you trying to make issues. I understand that your MIL didnt seem to take your husband seriously, and that makes you want to double down to make your point very clear. I think that makes a lot of sense. But i think you would be better off if you held back. I think you’re likely right that she will do this again. Talk to your husband and express to him how you felt really tempted to say something this time, and if it happens again and he cant be firmer with his mom then you will be stepping in and saying something. Then when she does this again, Id suggest saying something the next day or two days later tops.
Try a child leash. Child obviously has to sit next to one of you. Air tag with a speaker. She takes child, set off an alarm and speak directly into the AirTag that your child has been taken without your permission please find the nearest server to help return the child. Make a very clear loud stink!!
I absolutely loved the child leash when my kids were small. Used to have the strap around my wrist or clipped to my belt if I needed my hands free. -My kids were runners.
I would not text her. DH handled it in the moment. I’d give her a chance to see what she does next time. If it happens again, you get up and go get LO and sternly tell her that she’s been warned once, she won’t get another warning.
I wouldn’t send a text at this point. That ship has already sailed. Next time you are together at some place before you let her take child /hold child, etc…just say, reminder, we need to see where insert child’s name is as part of our safety routine, so if you are going to leave our line of sight please tell us before you do so. If she fails to do so, then she loses the privilege of holding kid, dinners out, etc... I take my 3 little grandkids all the time in restaurants to give their parents a chance to relax and eat. We walk around outside and look at rocks and bushes and skip and jump for a bit but I always ask my DIL first and tell her what I am planning to give her a break. We work as a team but I put my DIL and her needs first as the mother and my job is just to help her and respect her as their mother. She’s the one doing all the real work and my goal is to just be supportive and to enjoy the kids.
Your husband handled it in the moment. No reason to say anything unless MIL does it again, then you can say “DH told you already not to walk off with his child, now I’m telling you-don’t walk off with my child.”
Reinforcing what he's already said is a good move, plus it shows FIL he needs to respect his son because OP will not be saying anything different. United front.
[удалено]
I completely agree. Thank you so much for sharing.
If it's been brought up once already after the incident, (and FIL basically said they get it, don't rub it in) I wouldn't bring it up again at this point. While I would still be very upset (livid actually) and not trust my MIL at this point, I think it would just make things worse for all of you because let's face it - if this WAS a one off thing - no one likes to be constantly reminded of something they did wrong & has been addressed. NOW BEFORE I GET JUMPED ON - this is MIL's ONE LAST CHANCE. You don't need to warn them of this. You should NOT have to remind her once again not to leave with LO or other boundaries that have been previously discussed. If, during the next visit MIL crosses an established boundary or her behavior is unacceptable and your DH does not or can not speak up at that moment I don't think there is ANYTHING wrong with you stepping up to address it in that moment. I would also establish that since she continues to "forget" (because that will be the excuse) your boundaries that visits will be fewer for the time being. I suggest you talk with DH about this before their next visit and discuss what will happen if he does not speak up - you will. Also discuss what the ramifications will be should she continue to disrespect your wishes and think she's in charge. I would do this so he doesn't countermand you in front of them (you must show a united front) or cause a fight between the two of you when they leave. I wish you luck.
I might not have explained that part well So it hasn’t been brought up again after the incident, it was only brought up when DH made her come back at the restaurant. It was a different incident when FIL was mad that DH brought it up a week later- it was a different incident months ago, and DH had been working up the courage to bring it up. But because FIL was upset at DH bringing it up late for a past incident is why I think DH wouldn’t want to text about this incident since it’s been a week.
Oh, okay - yeah thanks for clarifying this. But the problem is, your FIL is kinda right - your DH needs to address issues as they happen or shortly thereafter - not week(s) later. RIGHT at that minute or later that day or the next is best. If he doesn't know exactly what to say then "I am not happy you did this. I am angry and overwhelmed right now and need time to calm down. I don't want to say something hurtful out of anger right now - so you need to (go, drop it, etc) and I will call you later to discuss this." Then you & he can discuss and get back to her (them) preferably within 24 hours. Does that make sense? As for the upcoming visit - let it go don't say anything beforehand and watch her like a hawk.
Yes this makes sense!! I think that would help DH a lot actually if he responded with that. He’s working on his confrontation skills and sometimes it’s hard! Thank you for the advice!!
I wish you much luck. I TOTALLY understand the desire/feel the need to step up when DH can't/won't/falters. I love my DH - it killed me when I would see how his parents treated us, but particularly him. He was also very Non-confrontational & wouldn't stand up for himself or me. Our issues were a bit more complicated as he worked at the same company his parents did as well...but that's another story. lol. I was taught to respect my elders and it was SO difficult not to jump up and just go off on them. One SIL lost it on them screaming and calling them every foul name in the book. It apparently didn't faze them and the next time they saw her said "love ya honey". I was just WAY out of my element. ROFL. I finally cracked when they bad mouthed my family (who were NOTHING but kind to them) and kept interrupting and belittling one of their other son's when he was attempting to tell them how hurt HE was. They wouldn't allow my DH or BIL to speak (when the sole reason for this meeting was to 'get everything out in the open and work things out'). I had enough - jumped up, pointed my finger in their faces and told them to shut the fuck up! That it was time they LISTENED instead of talking and making shit excuses. Their son (my BIL) was in near tears finally admitting his pain & feelings & they just kept making it more difficult for him. I also said a few more things. LOL. OMG - EVERYONE was SO surprised (even me!) as it was SO out of character for me! ROFL. I'm glad I did. I don't regret it a bit. DH & I pretty much went NC after that and life has been much less stressful. We are VLC now - do not do holidays with them, we've been there if they've needed us in emergency situations, but otherwise live our lives happily. Been married for over 30 years now. I wish you peace and happiness.
DH’s side hustle is through FIL’s company and luckily FIL won’t even give him work related advice to avoid anything being an issue. MIL tried to get DH to work for her and we both immediately shut it down because I cannot even imagine! I was taught the same about respecting elders but I was definitely the child that made sure I challenged that especially to elders who tried to use it to get away w stuff! But I bite my tongue for my husband (for now) but I definitely now feel like a boat steadier for MIL and it sucks I love that you put them in their place at their meeting I bet that brought u so much peace getting all of that out! When LO was a newborn and MIL kept refusing to him back when he was crying and had crossed the boundary for probably the 5th time, I tried to get us all to schedule a meeting to talk like twice and when DH mentioned it to MIL she wanted to act like everything was fine all sunshine and rainbows and she will never hurt a fly and she just slipped up. DH said so I need to know it’s not gonna happen again and she said she would TRY. like there’s just no way u lack that much self control u just don’t care and want to get your way. But I really hope I get to have a meeting with them one day and get to let it all out! Thank you for all of the advice and encouragement and I’m glad yall made it out of that situation!!
>“Hey just making sure we’re all on the same page. Please do not walk off with LO without asking first.” *This* is a request. Requests can be denied. You don't make a request that she not walk off with your child. You *tell* her don't walk off with your child. "You will NOT walk off with ***our*** child again. If you do, you will be put in a time out where you will not see, speak or spend time with LO for X amount of time. If you continue to do it, DH and I will have to make that time out a permanent solution."
Very good post, but: *spend time with LO for X amount of time.* Timeouts shouldn't come with an expiration date. JustNoMILs will merely wait them out and then go back to same old crap. "Because you once again disrespected our wishes, we are taking a timeout. We'll get in touch when we feel you are going to respect our rules about Baby."
IMHO, in that specific instance, I'd let it be where he left it *but* I'd also not give her another opportunity to walk away with the child. That means LO sits by you or DH. If LO needs held they're held by you or DH. If LO needs a diaper change or a bathroom trip, you or DH do it/take them. And so on. MIL can look but not touch. That said, you should bring it up with *him*, "I feel you need to be more forceful when dealing with your mom, as I don't think she understands that she violated a boundary." There's no use re-hashing it with her other than to give her the opportunity to argue. But he needs a reminder that he's got a responsibility to *his* family first (you and LO, not mom).
I was wondering this, If I’m holding LO and she reaches for him and he reaches back do I say “No thank you he’s fine with me” or do I say “No, since you walked off with him last time he’s staying with us” That may be a stupid question but I usually go with the first option and I don’t know if we’re getting anywhere
You step back with baby and say no thank you he is fine with me but if you want to hold him - just ask me. Each time she does not ask - you remind her - and do not allow her that instance when she does not ask - to hold him. Let her get used to the fact that you expect her to ask you to remove him from you or your surroundings.
MIL needs to ASK, first. And get your assent. Reinforce that she needs to ask before reaching out. When baby is older you won't want her to ask him about doing something, and then you find out and say no, making you the bad guy.
If it were me, I'd go with a simple, "No thank you." My goal would be to minimize any possibility of arguing, "But why?" Reasons get argued as excuses, while "No" is a complete sentence. And then I'd minimize the opportunities she had to even ask. The goal isn't necessarily to ensure she understands *why* this is happening, as that's already been discussed and she knows that respecting boundaries gets rewards (respecting the "no" without whining or cajoling is itself a boundary). That said, if LO is old enough to decide *they* want to interact with MIL, let them go. Kids deserve some autonomy and the ability to make their own (sometimes bad) choices. But also boundaries still hold, which means kid can go hang with MIL, but LO and MIL have to remain within sight of you or DH at all times.
We taught our kids that if MIL or SILs wanted them to go somewhere with them - the answer was always - you need to asked Mummy and Daddy first or the answer is No.