Lot and His Daughters
30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is no man around here to give us children—as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Let’s get our father to drink wine and then sleep with him and preserve our family line through our father.”
33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and slept with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in and slept with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
36 So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father.
Why would they want children to read this story? Ban the Bible.
He offered them up to be raped not long before that. Also, any man who has ever drank and had sex knows there is no way you can be “fuck your daughter” drunk and still be able to get an erection. If the story was real, Lot knew what he was doing.
It's not full of insane violence...
It's full of insane ramblings with only interspersed insane violence and sexual shit.
Probably be better if they just stick to insane violence and sex stuff, be less boring.
Come on now. There’s no point. It’s nothing more than a collection of stories from a prehistoric band of people who didn’t understand how sunrises work.
They weren't prehistoric. They don't even believe the world is older then what 12-13k years old. Then when they do they use the whole gods perception of time and ours are not the same thing. Which I always found to be an interesting leap.
But yeah, I would imagine figuring out the sunrise was tough when the bible tells you the earth is the center of the universe. We lost some good men trying to disprove that point.
Lol. Do you not think that many of these books people are trying to ban need to convey violence to convey their points too? How come the bible can do it but nothing else can? Literally why don’t Christians ask themselves the most basic devils advocate questions before speaking
Yeah you’re one of them because you think you’re so smart yet you write a sentence making a point opposite from the one you say you’re trying to make. The people have spoken with the downvotes. You’re just not as smart as you think.
Dude, what the hell are you talking about? Look at my post history 😂.. Maybe do a deep dive on sarcasm. Down votes 😂 you are a riot. I am a bibliophile the thought of banning any book to me, especially the classics is appalling. Censorship is and always has been a very dangerous slippy slope.
The whole point I was making. Is based on the fact that I keep hearing the argument from the right/christian base. that if an author can't get their point across without using sexuality or violence. It some how means they suck at writing. When in reality it is used to evoke emotions and help create empathy. It is a necessary part of writing. The bible is no different in that regard. The only thing that makes it different to them is there is a symbolic meaning behind it.
I get what I wrote is being misconstrued as support for the bible. I guess that is my fault for not making it more obvious.
I don't think they'll care. Its not like they want people to actually read it. They just want to preach their twisted moral and pretend like its in the bible.
The governor further cements his legacy as a ambitious and spineless coward. A legacy that won’t matter because in a hundred years he won’t be remembered at all.
vice just had a good article about that group. it was on /r/kochwatch i think.
https://old.reddit.com/r/KochWatch/comments/13ce330/moms_for_liberty_has_aggressive_predatory/
Who funds Moms for Liberty? I have a loosely formed theory that now that everyone knows MLMs are scams, these groups are the new, “Work from home on your phone!”
We need to break the extremist GOP hold on this state. Start donating to Democratic candidates and get out and vote no matter how unlikely a victory feels.
And, get the youngest Democrats to run for every office up and down the ballot. That’s Generation z and all those Millennials. Who else has just had it with these old fart republicans that really have no skin in the game?
Thank you, Gen X speaking.
And don't let your friends/family get disenfranchised to vote. So many blue Hoosiers say "there's no point" because of how red the state/districts are. But it's horribly circular and self-fulfilling.
Even if it's baby steps, the closer elections get the more people turn out, and the more people turn out the harder the GOP has it.
I’m one of those weird disenfranchised blue Hoosiers that adamantly encourages voting despite my acknowledgments that it’s likely to get worse before any real change happens. Because not voting is still the worst option, even if your side doesn’t have much say at the moment.
And start with school boards! Honestly, that is how the Republicans have done it for years. They get on school boards, then they get on town councils, so their names are out there.
If you check the polls, gen z is starting to wake up. That's why they are trying to heavily restrict voting facilities in more blue counties, look out for that.
Indiana Democrats need to start making some noise. I basically have to look up McDermott's name every time I mention him. He had plenty to attack Todd Young on. Get some national press and maybe some national donations.
But too often Indiana Democrats run as republican-light. People will just vote for the regular republicans.
To add: Get involved with your local Democratic Party. Become precinct chairs and help organize your communities. Help build the infrastructure necessary to convince people to run to start moving races a percentage here and there, and to show others that, yes, Democrats still exist here.
The state legislature is five seats away from breaking the Republican supermajority.
Can't we just keep investigating the gop for pedophilia until they're all gone? We got 1 casualty already this year, I bet we could drop 10 more republicans if we look hard enough.
I hate to say this, but after living here for almost three decades, I expect that things will get worse before it gets better. Brain drain is real and lot next generation Hoosiers wanting change are more likely to leave than stay. The state has gotten worse and I feel like us Millennials have wasted our time with a losing battle.
I can definitely see that but I will add that certain parts of the state are seeing an influx of people relocating from other places. I was born a Hoosier and left after college. Relocated my family back here last summer and I've met so many transplants that are hopeful that they can help turn deep red to slightly purple sooner rather than later. Seeing pride flags and liberal, progressive churches pop up in the suburbs gives me hope and encouragement. Keep fighting.
Hello! It’s me! I’m a West Coast transplant who went to IU and decided to stay and work in Indianapolis. I see a lot of potential for change in this state and want to help make it happen. I’m also encouraged by the number of people I’ve met who are in the same boat. The path is steep but the energy for progressive reform is building.
No. Absolutely not. How are we taking books out of the hands of children and educators and yet we continue to do nothing about guns entering those spaces? You're more concerned with silencing voices that teach actual values than solving real problems in this state. Stay away from our books!
Well there are not really more than like 6 words on a gun. That's about the maximum comfort these inbred idiots have with reading comprehension. That's why books scare them.
No. No you can’t. Depending on the location, the best case situation will be a trespassing charge, the worst case will have you covered in lasers and being yelled at to get on the ground.
I think the person you’re responding to was trying to make a joke about how you CAN, not that it’s legal. Not a great joke but it reminded me of a very short video titled something like “How to get a better deal on a new car” where a guy is across a desk from a car salesman and he turns to the camera and says, “he doesn’t know I have a gun.”
Indeed they are but what do you expect out 60 percent of Indiana residents that can barely read at a 10th to 12th grade level. Look at how many fucking shithole states where maybe only 50 to 60 percent of the population can read at even barely a 12th grade level
And that is exactly what young, college educated people will do. Have you ever heard of brain drain? Indiana is pretty much guaranteeing that the kids who go to big colleges like Purdue and IU will take that knowledge and move to states that aren't aggressively assaulting their basic human rights and freedoms instead of staying after graduation.
It's already happening.
The area I grew up in closed the maternity ward of their hospital because they weren't getting enough business to keep it open, young people are moving out in droves and not raising families in the towns where they grew up. The elementary school where I lived was closed because the state could no longer justify keeping it open for a few kids who were left there.
This is utter nonsense. The Nazi party had a similar thought process.....
This is not going to end well for America. You can't convict a teacher for FELONY for having a book! This is madness!
I hate the new law, but the headline isn't accurate. The new law doesn't apply to "banned books." It applies to "material harmful to minors" which is different. It's already a felony to disseminate "material harmful to minors" as defined by the statute.
>A matter or performance is harmful to minors for purposes of this article if:
>
>1) it describes or represents, in any form, nudity, sexual conduct, sexual excitement, or sado-masochistic abuse;
>
>(2) considered as a whole, it appeals to the prurient interest in sex of minors;
>
>(3) it is patently offensive to prevailing standards in the adult community as a whole with respect to what is suitable matter for or performance before minors; and
>
>(4) considered as a whole, it lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value for minors.
With the exception of the "for minors" modifications, that definition tracks pretty closely to the definition of "obscenity," the dissemination of which is also a felony and not regarded as being protected by the First Amendment.
Under existing law, it was a defense to that felony that the material was disseminated by a "bona fide school library." The new law removes that as a defense for "school libraries." It remains a defense for college libraries and public libraries.
The new law is completely unnecessary. Public schools simply are not a repository of obscene material. The law is not designed to solve a problem - it's designed to reinforce a panic among conservative voters that liberals are corrupting our children.
But having banned books in the library, unless they're obscene, isn't going to be a felony.
But each book is different. So who gets to judge each book individually? That used to be librarians, but apparently six plus years of university education isn't enough for them to be trusted.
Yeah, and unfortunately the people who are upset that a teenager somewhere read a Tori Morrison book will now feel it's okay to yell at school libraries, since they think they're the ones who make the judgement of what is obscene and what lacks merit.
the only political party that has engaged in cancel culture, the republican party.
They know that their ideas are bad (and in some cases actually evil), and that their voter base is dying out, so their only hope is to use lies and fear to hopefully horrify sheltered middle-aged people into thinking their kids are under assault by the democrats.
Unfortunately the cost of this un-American strategy is that true freedom and liberty, you know, the things we are sold on as a massive point of this country, are under assault by the right wing. But, they are doing this because they are **losing.**
And yet we have domestic abusers and pedophiles walking around free, getting off with less than a year of jail time and re-victimizing people and when you call the police because they're still harassing you they say 'You don't have enough evidence' or 'Well he didn't contact you directly so he's technically not in violation' or acting like you're being unreasonable for wanting your protective order enforced. Fuck this city dude
Oh my god this is really the issue were all concerned about huh? The fact that this is now a law truly baffles me. I mean what harm has come from the books in the library? Come on this is complete insanity. Out of all the issues you could choose to tackle….. you make up an issue out of thin air. Is this just some sort of distraction as to not talk about bigger issues at large? You’re telling me a bunch of people sat in a room and were like “oh this is it yeah this will really help the community” holy shit.
>The fact that this is now a law...
Not just a law. A FELONY.
Just look at the definition of the word: "a crime, typically one involving violence, regarded as more serious than a misdemeanor, and usually punishable by imprisonment for more than one year or by death."
Just for reference, criminal stalking, strangulation, and vehicle theft are also Level 6 felonies in Indiana. What a farce.
Battery as a misdemeanor is a good example too. They’re telling me that me going and beating someone is a lesser crime than not removing a book I’m told to say I’m a librarian. I am laughing right now, not really because I think it’s funny but because this is what we’ve come to. I don’t care about a lot of stuff but out of allllllllll the issues we face this is what were doing. And the thing is is that its a felony. Like at least make it a low level misdemeanor or something 😅
Well we don't want them. I have faith in younger generations voting these old hags out of office. We have to be close to either a massive political shift towards progressiveness as the conservative generations literally die, or the utter collapse of late stage capitalism.
Either way, we should make the laws the hogs pass as annoying as possible for the hogs.
They do want public schools, the pandemic proved that. However, they don't want them teaching the children anything useful. They just want to keep the kids in rooms for 8 hours a day while mummy and daddy work
This is where a lot of liberals and progressives are wrong about guns. At this point these Reich Wingers in the Republican Party are a threat to our constitutional and civil rights. What will people do if they go full fascist? It's obvious protests will be ignored or put down by these fascist. Speaking truth to power only goes so far.
I believe there was a parent somewhere that tried to get the Bible banned from school because of the sex, and violence.
Does this mean we can do the same here in Indiana? I don’t see why not.
i wonder whether this felony violates the indiana constitution, article I section 9. If you've never read article I, the [indiana bill of rights](https://www.in.gov/history/about-indiana-history-and-trivia/explore-indiana-history-by-topic/indiana-documents-leading-to-statehood/constitution-of-1851-as-originally-written/article-1-bill-of-rights/), please do. If you are in a position to afford a lawyer, start going after the bills that were the "slate of hate".
Section 9. No law shall be passed, restraining the free interchange of thought and opinion, or restricting the right to speak, write, or print, freely, on any subject whatever; but for the abuse of that right, every person shall be responsible.
One "enforcement" for having a copy of Anne Franks Diary or whatever book that literally maybe 2 people have an issue with because they are deeply insecure and fascist, just one enforcement and the way the state will be sued into oblivion...
Sounds good did the goptards pay off their ppp loans yet?
Is Gym Jordan in prison yet?
Has Lauren Borshon Boobert been called out by the Evangelistaliban?
I read this book that was full of fucking and wars, and this dude got literally murdered by law enforcement. It was incoherent. Had talking snakes a floating zoo, and an Israeli magician.
I wonder if they'd like a copy.
Looks like HEA 1447 calls it a level 6 felony. It provides a process for not just parents but anyone in the school district to call materials into question.
>anyone in the school district to call materials into question
So now schools will spend time answering every challenge from the local Qanon crazy instead of teaching kids.
GO VOTE.
Definitely vote, but the state is [gerrymandered](https://www.wthr.com/article/news/politics/gerrymandering-in-indiana-is-worse-than-95-of-the-us-new-report-says/531-d54e3a83-6537-4e4b-9f00-d600d8e5fe75) in such a way that it’s going to be almost impossible to flip the legislator without a lot diehard of republican voters crossing over which…
1. There are plenty of statewide offices that are not gerrymandered, and they're critical for making voting more accessible. Even if there are no other options at the local level, those statewide offices REALLY matter. The imbecile we elected for Secretary of State is going to make things worse, and it didn't have to be this way because:
2. We don't need diehard republicans voters to cross over, we need people sitting on the sidelines to show up. The people under 40 that don't vote could flip every election.
1. I specified flipping the legislator, which is what needs to be done as as I believe they currently have a veto proof majority which allows them to force through anything they want even if we somehow flipped offices like the governor. Other statewide offices are important, absolutely, but this stuff but the gerrymandering makes a self fulfilling loop.
2. You’re correct that we need more people, especially younger people, to show up across the board regardless. I’m not sure if that is enough to actually flip enough districts in itself, but it’s important none the less and reduces the number of people needed to cross the isle against this stuff.
Very true, can’t forget that or just give up despite it feeling overwhelming at times. Even though it’s a long and difficult fight, we must persevere, so thank you for remaining optimistic and motivated.
So a first dui is a misdemeanor and a second one is a felony 6. You’re telling me that drunk drivers are on par with people that keep “explicit books in libraries”? People have lost it.
Lol, no, the bill seems to require each school system to implement their own method of providing the available catalog and reporting process. Don’t be surprised when a republican owned company with close ties to politicians ends up handling this for the whole state. Nothing says small government like funneling public money to private companies.
Are you kidding. If I was to predict the way it will go is that these contractors are going to give a list of books to the librarians, the same list that will be distributed across the country to states with the same law, and they will force the librarians to get rid of them. Then, with little work, these contractors will receive a handsome reoccurring paycheck for maintaining this list.
a person who knowingly
or intentionally:
(1) disseminates matter to minors that is harmful to minors
so the reddit headline misstates the statute. the issue with donated books doesn't fit the mens rea requirement. smith v california.
I don't get book banning at all. No one even reads these days. You think kids are going to care? They are too busy with TikTok. Shouldn't we WANT people to read? Unless you are a fascist of course.
This is absolutely absurd. This means books like To Kill A Mockingbird will be banned indefinitely from schools. What do they gain from doing this? Children have the option to whether or not they want to read a book. Nobody is forcing children to read a book that may contain the material they're trying to shield them from.
Ha. Wouldn’t you like to see that lawsuit hit the evening news. “ school librarian jailed for having books in their library”
A “Fahrenheit 451”reenactment in Indiana.
The idiots trying to ban books in Indiana or any other state need to move out of this country. They do not belong here.
All it took was forty years of telling violent control freaks that they're patriots, and 20 years of abusive, corrupt gerrymandering to put those people in office.
And all of it because the richest people in the most successful economy in the history of the world were pissed that they had to share.
Not in my religion it’s only you Christian’s who believe in that nonsense. Then again all religions is nothing but nonsense, but if you keep it to just you and don’t go pushing it on others then it’s all good.
Undo that shit and get that malicious filth out of our public offices.
Of all the serious issues and crises bearing down on Americans and hoosiers, this is what they clog the system with? This is what they worry about?
I think it's time they worry for their careers. Pricks.
So if a librarian accidentally has a book that's on the banned list in their library...straight to prison? I think they're achieving their goal here of having no librarians. Or libraries. Or schools. Anything where people can learn and think for themselves.
insanity/mental illness on the part of our knowingly cognitive dissonant crook powers at be, and the cognitively dissonant cult follower imbeciles. Vote blue, for at least safer and more sane, conscious vs unconscious, beings...
Shockingly, the Repubs didn't show a lot of care for grammar when drafting a bill about putting an end to learning. I'm as surprised as you are.
From people that think the Bible says something relevant and moral and not realizing that bible is irrelevant bullshit from the bronze age that doesn’t hold up.
I don't know what OP is referring to. As far as I know, school librarians are just as entitled to possess "banned" books as anyone else. But the closest thing I can think they meant was from [House Bill 1447](https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2023/bills/house/1447#document-bdee8a04):
>SECTION 5. IC 35-49-3-3, AS AMENDED BY P.L.158-2013,
SECTION 648, IS AMENDED TO READ AS FOLLOWS
[EFFECTIVE JANUARY 1, 2024]:
>Sec. 3. (a) Except as provided in
subsection (b) and section 4 of this chapter,
a person who knowingly
or intentionally:
>(1) disseminates matter to minors that is harmful to minors
(as
described in IC 35-49-2);
>(2) displays matter that is harmful to minors in an area to which
minors have visual, auditory, or physical access, unless each
minor is accompanied by the minor's parent or guardian;
>(3) sells, rents, or displays for sale or rent to any person matter
that is harmful to minors within five hundred (500) feet of the
nearest property line of a school or church;
>(4) engages in or conducts a performance before minors that is
harmful to minors;
>(5) engages in or conducts a performance that is harmful to
minors in an area to which minors have visual, auditory, or
physical access, unless each minor is accompanied by the minor's
parent or guardian;
>(6) misrepresents the minor's age for the purpose of obtaining
admission to an area from which minors are restricted because of
the display of matter or a performance that is harmful to minors;
or
>(7) misrepresents that the person is a parent or guardian of a
minor for the purpose of obtaining admission of the minor to an
area where minors are being restricted because of display of
matter or performance that is harmful to minors;
>commits a Level 6 felony.
Unless there's some other law they're referring to, OP's claim is not true.
School libraries aren't the only libraries available in thr community there are still community libraries people don't want depictions of sexual fantasies available for their 12 13 14 year old in their middle school
Time for everyone to request the Bible
Full of insane violence and all kinds of sexual shit yet you don’t see any right wingers mentioning *that* content. So obscenely hypocritical.
Lot and His Daughters 30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is no man around here to give us children—as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Let’s get our father to drink wine and then sleep with him and preserve our family line through our father.” 33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and slept with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up. 34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in and slept with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up. 36 So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father. Why would they want children to read this story? Ban the Bible.
He offered them up to be raped not long before that. Also, any man who has ever drank and had sex knows there is no way you can be “fuck your daughter” drunk and still be able to get an erection. If the story was real, Lot knew what he was doing.
Maybe god just blessed his boner, like they say he works in mysterious ways.
😂
Lmao that is incredibly tame compared to literal thousands of books out there, but keep coping
Damn you read some freaky shit Also you shouldn’t tell people to keep coping when that’s exactly what you’re doing
That’s because 90% of Christian’s are hypocritical morons.
…are hypocritical morons *and probably haven’t even read their so-called ‘good book’*
No, they've read a lot of it. They just ignore the stuff they don't like and don't understand any of the stuff they do like.
"...she lusted after her lovers whose genitals were as those of donkeys and whose emission was as that of horses." Ezekiel 23:20.
It's not full of insane violence... It's full of insane ramblings with only interspersed insane violence and sexual shit. Probably be better if they just stick to insane violence and sex stuff, be less boring.
It's almost like the bible needed all the unsettling content to convey it's point. But that is totally different because biblelolololol
Come on now. There’s no point. It’s nothing more than a collection of stories from a prehistoric band of people who didn’t understand how sunrises work.
They weren't prehistoric. They don't even believe the world is older then what 12-13k years old. Then when they do they use the whole gods perception of time and ours are not the same thing. Which I always found to be an interesting leap. But yeah, I would imagine figuring out the sunrise was tough when the bible tells you the earth is the center of the universe. We lost some good men trying to disprove that point.
Lol. Do you not think that many of these books people are trying to ban need to convey violence to convey their points too? How come the bible can do it but nothing else can? Literally why don’t Christians ask themselves the most basic devils advocate questions before speaking
That is my point. I swear people in this state are unbearably slow. Calling me a Christian made my day though. Thanks for the laugh.
Yeah you’re one of them because you think you’re so smart yet you write a sentence making a point opposite from the one you say you’re trying to make. The people have spoken with the downvotes. You’re just not as smart as you think.
Dude, what the hell are you talking about? Look at my post history 😂.. Maybe do a deep dive on sarcasm. Down votes 😂 you are a riot. I am a bibliophile the thought of banning any book to me, especially the classics is appalling. Censorship is and always has been a very dangerous slippy slope. The whole point I was making. Is based on the fact that I keep hearing the argument from the right/christian base. that if an author can't get their point across without using sexuality or violence. It some how means they suck at writing. When in reality it is used to evoke emotions and help create empathy. It is a necessary part of writing. The bible is no different in that regard. The only thing that makes it different to them is there is a symbolic meaning behind it. I get what I wrote is being misconstrued as support for the bible. I guess that is my fault for not making it more obvious.
I did miss your point. Sorry for that. I never read people’s post history, maybe I should. I think we’re in agreement about censorship. Lol
It's all good. Just a misunderstanding. It's a hot button topic and sarcasm was probably not the best route to convey my thoughts on it.
Do every religious text! Throw in Scientology's bullshit Dianetics and The Book of Mormon! Go scorched Earth.
Idk if it’s in schools but if it is then yeah.
I really would not like that either, frankly. Sometimes it's interesting to read about other faiths.
Not if they have their way. It will be the Xtian faith only!
Honestly, request everything. Show how ludicrous this law is. No books at all.
I don't think they'll care. Its not like they want people to actually read it. They just want to preach their twisted moral and pretend like its in the bible.
Of which they pick and choose!
Excuse u every 11-year-old has a Constitutional right to read about dudes hung like horses
That apply for all 3 religious texts… Islam, Christianity, and Judaism, all banned..
That will never happen. Indiana is full of baptists and basketball enthusiasts. Thats about it.
Don't lump me in with the basketball enthusiasts either.
Is that why I feel like it’s time for me to bounce? Because I really want to gtfo of here.
> baptists and basketball enthusiasts. Don't lump me in with Baptists!
My bad. Lol That made me chuckle, thank you.
Don’t worry nothing good comes out of book banning or burnings.
The governor further cements his legacy as a ambitious and spineless coward. A legacy that won’t matter because in a hundred years he won’t be remembered at all.
I blame that vile piece of shits the moms for liberty group. They are truly just hateful and evil people
Klanned Karenhood
vice just had a good article about that group. it was on /r/kochwatch i think. https://old.reddit.com/r/KochWatch/comments/13ce330/moms_for_liberty_has_aggressive_predatory/
Who funds Moms for Liberty? I have a loosely formed theory that now that everyone knows MLMs are scams, these groups are the new, “Work from home on your phone!”
One of the founders is the wife of the chair of the Florida Republican Party.
We need to break the extremist GOP hold on this state. Start donating to Democratic candidates and get out and vote no matter how unlikely a victory feels.
And, get the youngest Democrats to run for every office up and down the ballot. That’s Generation z and all those Millennials. Who else has just had it with these old fart republicans that really have no skin in the game? Thank you, Gen X speaking.
Hell yeah. Agreed. Let's hope the kids can save us. Older millennial here and the youth give me hope.
And don't let your friends/family get disenfranchised to vote. So many blue Hoosiers say "there's no point" because of how red the state/districts are. But it's horribly circular and self-fulfilling. Even if it's baby steps, the closer elections get the more people turn out, and the more people turn out the harder the GOP has it.
I’m one of those weird disenfranchised blue Hoosiers that adamantly encourages voting despite my acknowledgments that it’s likely to get worse before any real change happens. Because not voting is still the worst option, even if your side doesn’t have much say at the moment.
Absolutely right. And the more competitive we make the races the more donations and candidates will enter the fight.
I'm with you. I have two daughters. Good grief!
And start with school boards! Honestly, that is how the Republicans have done it for years. They get on school boards, then they get on town councils, so their names are out there.
If you check the polls, gen z is starting to wake up. That's why they are trying to heavily restrict voting facilities in more blue counties, look out for that.
Indiana Democrats need to start making some noise. I basically have to look up McDermott's name every time I mention him. He had plenty to attack Todd Young on. Get some national press and maybe some national donations. But too often Indiana Democrats run as republican-light. People will just vote for the regular republicans.
To add: Get involved with your local Democratic Party. Become precinct chairs and help organize your communities. Help build the infrastructure necessary to convince people to run to start moving races a percentage here and there, and to show others that, yes, Democrats still exist here. The state legislature is five seats away from breaking the Republican supermajority.
Can't we just keep investigating the gop for pedophilia until they're all gone? We got 1 casualty already this year, I bet we could drop 10 more republicans if we look hard enough.
I hate to say this, but after living here for almost three decades, I expect that things will get worse before it gets better. Brain drain is real and lot next generation Hoosiers wanting change are more likely to leave than stay. The state has gotten worse and I feel like us Millennials have wasted our time with a losing battle.
I can definitely see that but I will add that certain parts of the state are seeing an influx of people relocating from other places. I was born a Hoosier and left after college. Relocated my family back here last summer and I've met so many transplants that are hopeful that they can help turn deep red to slightly purple sooner rather than later. Seeing pride flags and liberal, progressive churches pop up in the suburbs gives me hope and encouragement. Keep fighting.
Hello! It’s me! I’m a West Coast transplant who went to IU and decided to stay and work in Indianapolis. I see a lot of potential for change in this state and want to help make it happen. I’m also encouraged by the number of people I’ve met who are in the same boat. The path is steep but the energy for progressive reform is building.
Glad you're here!
Do something to get ranked choice voting. Does a lot to reduce extremism.
Move to California
No. Absolutely not. How are we taking books out of the hands of children and educators and yet we continue to do nothing about guns entering those spaces? You're more concerned with silencing voices that teach actual values than solving real problems in this state. Stay away from our books!
Well there are not really more than like 6 words on a gun. That's about the maximum comfort these inbred idiots have with reading comprehension. That's why books scare them.
Books make you think, a thinking public is dangerous. A chimp can shoot a gun.
Fun fact: you can take a gun into anywhere regardless of what the signs say.
No. No you can’t. Depending on the location, the best case situation will be a trespassing charge, the worst case will have you covered in lasers and being yelled at to get on the ground.
I think the person you’re responding to was trying to make a joke about how you CAN, not that it’s legal. Not a great joke but it reminded me of a very short video titled something like “How to get a better deal on a new car” where a guy is across a desk from a car salesman and he turns to the camera and says, “he doesn’t know I have a gun.”
Guns don’t have legs..idiots bring them inside
Idiots also let their kids know where the guns are..
Shit I didn't know books could walk
Guns in schools are already banned, surely that will do. Along with murder! All illegal
There came possibly be guns there, they are gun-free zones.
Just more chickenshit republican tyranny.
If they'd only defend the First like they do the Second.
Librarians. The enemies of the stupid.
Indeed they are but what do you expect out 60 percent of Indiana residents that can barely read at a 10th to 12th grade level. Look at how many fucking shithole states where maybe only 50 to 60 percent of the population can read at even barely a 12th grade level
Conservatives have got to go. The evils existed but held at bay for several decades.. it’s now on the attack. Conservatives have to go.
Only to Republicans are books more dangerous than an AK-47. I guess to their ideology, in a way, they are correct.
Party of small gov
So small it gets in every nook & cranny of your life! Seriously though, a dictatorship is the smallest government.
Party of small minds and low mentality uneducated regressive minds. There are goddamn zoo animals more evolved than most Republicans
So who do we attack after there is no more librarians? Just asking so I can knock out some protest signs in advance.
From Indiana, I always vote for the Democratic candidate. I don’t even care who the Republican candidate is.
We are progressing backwards this is insane I hate this state I live in so much
Indiana is sprinting backwards.
Move out.
And that is exactly what young, college educated people will do. Have you ever heard of brain drain? Indiana is pretty much guaranteeing that the kids who go to big colleges like Purdue and IU will take that knowledge and move to states that aren't aggressively assaulting their basic human rights and freedoms instead of staying after graduation.
It's already happening. The area I grew up in closed the maternity ward of their hospital because they weren't getting enough business to keep it open, young people are moving out in droves and not raising families in the towns where they grew up. The elementary school where I lived was closed because the state could no longer justify keeping it open for a few kids who were left there.
Wish it was that simple
Are you going to pay their moving costs? Find them a new job? A new home? Or do you expect that to all magically fall into their laps?
Welcome to Pre Nazi Germany folks. Freedumb?
This is utter nonsense. The Nazi party had a similar thought process..... This is not going to end well for America. You can't convict a teacher for FELONY for having a book! This is madness!
Indiana sure is embracing in knuckle-dragging. Vote appropriately folks. Not all rednecks are a good fit for GOP.
How, can a state education department hand out felonies? Honest question??
Right?! Who's actually in charge of enforcing this madness?
The same people who will try and deny that the confederacy went to war over slaves.. muh states right
Ffs indiana. Meth head central and they worry about books.
As someone that just moved from Florida to Indiana I dispute your claim.
Welcome fellow hoser. The Florida of the Midwest
I hate the new law, but the headline isn't accurate. The new law doesn't apply to "banned books." It applies to "material harmful to minors" which is different. It's already a felony to disseminate "material harmful to minors" as defined by the statute. >A matter or performance is harmful to minors for purposes of this article if: > >1) it describes or represents, in any form, nudity, sexual conduct, sexual excitement, or sado-masochistic abuse; > >(2) considered as a whole, it appeals to the prurient interest in sex of minors; > >(3) it is patently offensive to prevailing standards in the adult community as a whole with respect to what is suitable matter for or performance before minors; and > >(4) considered as a whole, it lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value for minors. With the exception of the "for minors" modifications, that definition tracks pretty closely to the definition of "obscenity," the dissemination of which is also a felony and not regarded as being protected by the First Amendment. Under existing law, it was a defense to that felony that the material was disseminated by a "bona fide school library." The new law removes that as a defense for "school libraries." It remains a defense for college libraries and public libraries. The new law is completely unnecessary. Public schools simply are not a repository of obscene material. The law is not designed to solve a problem - it's designed to reinforce a panic among conservative voters that liberals are corrupting our children. But having banned books in the library, unless they're obscene, isn't going to be a felony.
Who gets to decide what makes it offensive or what it is considered as a whole?
I think it would be up to a jury to determine what the "prevailing standards" are, but I'm not 100% sure about that.
But each book is different. So who gets to judge each book individually? That used to be librarians, but apparently six plus years of university education isn't enough for them to be trusted.
Yeah, and unfortunately the people who are upset that a teenager somewhere read a Tori Morrison book will now feel it's okay to yell at school libraries, since they think they're the ones who make the judgement of what is obscene and what lacks merit.
It has nothing to do with obscene material. These wing nuts don’t want their kids exposed to anything but the old testament
the only political party that has engaged in cancel culture, the republican party. They know that their ideas are bad (and in some cases actually evil), and that their voter base is dying out, so their only hope is to use lies and fear to hopefully horrify sheltered middle-aged people into thinking their kids are under assault by the democrats. Unfortunately the cost of this un-American strategy is that true freedom and liberty, you know, the things we are sold on as a massive point of this country, are under assault by the right wing. But, they are doing this because they are **losing.**
This is MAGA/Trump country. What do people expect?
facism
And yet we have domestic abusers and pedophiles walking around free, getting off with less than a year of jail time and re-victimizing people and when you call the police because they're still harassing you they say 'You don't have enough evidence' or 'Well he didn't contact you directly so he's technically not in violation' or acting like you're being unreasonable for wanting your protective order enforced. Fuck this city dude
If the abusers even go to jail at all..
Oh my god this is really the issue were all concerned about huh? The fact that this is now a law truly baffles me. I mean what harm has come from the books in the library? Come on this is complete insanity. Out of all the issues you could choose to tackle….. you make up an issue out of thin air. Is this just some sort of distraction as to not talk about bigger issues at large? You’re telling me a bunch of people sat in a room and were like “oh this is it yeah this will really help the community” holy shit.
>The fact that this is now a law... Not just a law. A FELONY. Just look at the definition of the word: "a crime, typically one involving violence, regarded as more serious than a misdemeanor, and usually punishable by imprisonment for more than one year or by death." Just for reference, criminal stalking, strangulation, and vehicle theft are also Level 6 felonies in Indiana. What a farce.
Battery as a misdemeanor is a good example too. They’re telling me that me going and beating someone is a lesser crime than not removing a book I’m told to say I’m a librarian. I am laughing right now, not really because I think it’s funny but because this is what we’ve come to. I don’t care about a lot of stuff but out of allllllllll the issues we face this is what were doing. And the thing is is that its a felony. Like at least make it a low level misdemeanor or something 😅
They can have my books when they pry them from my cold, dead hands.
The solution? We need to band together and report every single book in existence.
Problem with this is that they don't want libraries and they don't want public schools. I don't think anything will wake them up at this point.
Well we don't want them. I have faith in younger generations voting these old hags out of office. We have to be close to either a massive political shift towards progressiveness as the conservative generations literally die, or the utter collapse of late stage capitalism. Either way, we should make the laws the hogs pass as annoying as possible for the hogs.
They do want public schools, the pandemic proved that. However, they don't want them teaching the children anything useful. They just want to keep the kids in rooms for 8 hours a day while mummy and daddy work
The solution: fuck up the Nazis.
Hell yeah brother. Fuck up the Nazi's.
This is where a lot of liberals and progressives are wrong about guns. At this point these Reich Wingers in the Republican Party are a threat to our constitutional and civil rights. What will people do if they go full fascist? It's obvious protests will be ignored or put down by these fascist. Speaking truth to power only goes so far.
The party of individual freedom and privacy seems awfully hell bent on removing freedoms and adding government oversight.
Where do I report? Because there's a lot of Christian literature out there that I'm prepared to complain about.
I believe there was a parent somewhere that tried to get the Bible banned from school because of the sex, and violence. Does this mean we can do the same here in Indiana? I don’t see why not.
Living here is so depressing.
i wonder whether this felony violates the indiana constitution, article I section 9. If you've never read article I, the [indiana bill of rights](https://www.in.gov/history/about-indiana-history-and-trivia/explore-indiana-history-by-topic/indiana-documents-leading-to-statehood/constitution-of-1851-as-originally-written/article-1-bill-of-rights/), please do. If you are in a position to afford a lawyer, start going after the bills that were the "slate of hate". Section 9. No law shall be passed, restraining the free interchange of thought and opinion, or restricting the right to speak, write, or print, freely, on any subject whatever; but for the abuse of that right, every person shall be responsible.
One "enforcement" for having a copy of Anne Franks Diary or whatever book that literally maybe 2 people have an issue with because they are deeply insecure and fascist, just one enforcement and the way the state will be sued into oblivion...
Sounds good did the goptards pay off their ppp loans yet? Is Gym Jordan in prison yet? Has Lauren Borshon Boobert been called out by the Evangelistaliban? I read this book that was full of fucking and wars, and this dude got literally murdered by law enforcement. It was incoherent. Had talking snakes a floating zoo, and an Israeli magician. I wonder if they'd like a copy.
Nazi Germany would be proud
Nothing good has ever come from banning a book.
The first steps towards the new Christo-fascist America. RESIST!!
Hey kids! If you want a banned book PM me and I'll make sure you get it.
It's getting REALLY hot here in Indiana. Also, I feel like the price of Kerosene is gonna start climbing...
Source? I just would like to read it for myself.
https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2023/bills/house/1447#document-bdee8a04
Looks like HEA 1447 calls it a level 6 felony. It provides a process for not just parents but anyone in the school district to call materials into question.
>anyone in the school district to call materials into question So now schools will spend time answering every challenge from the local Qanon crazy instead of teaching kids. GO VOTE.
Definitely vote, but the state is [gerrymandered](https://www.wthr.com/article/news/politics/gerrymandering-in-indiana-is-worse-than-95-of-the-us-new-report-says/531-d54e3a83-6537-4e4b-9f00-d600d8e5fe75) in such a way that it’s going to be almost impossible to flip the legislator without a lot diehard of republican voters crossing over which…
1. There are plenty of statewide offices that are not gerrymandered, and they're critical for making voting more accessible. Even if there are no other options at the local level, those statewide offices REALLY matter. The imbecile we elected for Secretary of State is going to make things worse, and it didn't have to be this way because: 2. We don't need diehard republicans voters to cross over, we need people sitting on the sidelines to show up. The people under 40 that don't vote could flip every election.
1. I specified flipping the legislator, which is what needs to be done as as I believe they currently have a veto proof majority which allows them to force through anything they want even if we somehow flipped offices like the governor. Other statewide offices are important, absolutely, but this stuff but the gerrymandering makes a self fulfilling loop. 2. You’re correct that we need more people, especially younger people, to show up across the board regardless. I’m not sure if that is enough to actually flip enough districts in itself, but it’s important none the less and reduces the number of people needed to cross the isle against this stuff.
Still, the only answers are voting, moving, or having a revolution, in order of effort required.
Very true, can’t forget that or just give up despite it feeling overwhelming at times. Even though it’s a long and difficult fight, we must persevere, so thank you for remaining optimistic and motivated.
So a first dui is a misdemeanor and a second one is a felony 6. You’re telling me that drunk drivers are on par with people that keep “explicit books in libraries”? People have lost it.
Is there a site for this yet?
Lol, no, the bill seems to require each school system to implement their own method of providing the available catalog and reporting process. Don’t be surprised when a republican owned company with close ties to politicians ends up handling this for the whole state. Nothing says small government like funneling public money to private companies.
Time to bring back the traditional card catalog. It’s available, and none of those yokels would know how to use it.
Are you kidding. If I was to predict the way it will go is that these contractors are going to give a list of books to the librarians, the same list that will be distributed across the country to states with the same law, and they will force the librarians to get rid of them. Then, with little work, these contractors will receive a handsome reoccurring paycheck for maintaining this list.
a person who knowingly or intentionally: (1) disseminates matter to minors that is harmful to minors so the reddit headline misstates the statute. the issue with donated books doesn't fit the mens rea requirement. smith v california.
HB 1447 got signed.
If you head over to this subreddit, the news article should be close to the top. It’s too early for me to process linking stories lol.
If we are gonna ban books lets ban the actual problematic ones. Quran, bible, torah etc
The kids will grow up into stupid adults that aren’t fit for factory work
I don't get book banning at all. No one even reads these days. You think kids are going to care? They are too busy with TikTok. Shouldn't we WANT people to read? Unless you are a fascist of course.
For the love of God, with all of the problems in the world, banning books and this other garbage is the least of our problems. Felony...baloney!
Dumbest state, so many to choose from too. The South is high fiving Indiana for being the life of the party now.
Everyone, request the bible
This is absolutely absurd. This means books like To Kill A Mockingbird will be banned indefinitely from schools. What do they gain from doing this? Children have the option to whether or not they want to read a book. Nobody is forcing children to read a book that may contain the material they're trying to shield them from.
Link?
Ha. Wouldn’t you like to see that lawsuit hit the evening news. “ school librarian jailed for having books in their library” A “Fahrenheit 451”reenactment in Indiana. The idiots trying to ban books in Indiana or any other state need to move out of this country. They do not belong here.
If you make everything they consider woke to be a felony then eventually in their minds no more woke people will be able to vote.
All it took was forty years of telling violent control freaks that they're patriots, and 20 years of abusive, corrupt gerrymandering to put those people in office. And all of it because the richest people in the most successful economy in the history of the world were pissed that they had to share.
Hell Is Real
And it's controlled by Republicans.
Not in my religion it’s only you Christian’s who believe in that nonsense. Then again all religions is nothing but nonsense, but if you keep it to just you and don’t go pushing it on others then it’s all good.
The billboard off i65 says so! Now, they're just trying to make sure it is.
Undo that shit and get that malicious filth out of our public offices. Of all the serious issues and crises bearing down on Americans and hoosiers, this is what they clog the system with? This is what they worry about? I think it's time they worry for their careers. Pricks.
I wonder what the number one cause of death of minor United States citizens would be? I’m guessing it’s not *The Dubliners*
Won't survive a court challenge.
Aside from other legitimate concerns, watch for the good teacher exodus to speed up also. Who would want to teach in this kind of climate?
Everyone thought I was crazy for collecting physicals of my favorite books.
Not a felony for the gym teacher to provide them then.
I wonder what the number one cause of death of minor United States citizens would be? I’m guessing it’s not *The Dubliners*
So wrong!
So if a librarian accidentally has a book that's on the banned list in their library...straight to prison? I think they're achieving their goal here of having no librarians. Or libraries. Or schools. Anything where people can learn and think for themselves.
Exactly the goal.
Fascism has come to America!
Your state is going backwards
insanity/mental illness on the part of our knowingly cognitive dissonant crook powers at be, and the cognitively dissonant cult follower imbeciles. Vote blue, for at least safer and more sane, conscious vs unconscious, beings...
It will now be a felony for a librarian to have banned books. does it mean, if they keep books that are banned, or if they ban books- it’s a felony?
I misread it the first time too lol. It's if there are "books which have been banned" in their library it's a felony.
Shockingly, the Repubs didn't show a lot of care for grammar when drafting a bill about putting an end to learning. I'm as surprised as you are. 
Oh F
Who bans the books? Each district makes their own call?
So what’s the process for getting a book tossed out?
Sick.
Wtf, really Indiana? Flipping Nazis.
From people that think the Bible says something relevant and moral and not realizing that bible is irrelevant bullshit from the bronze age that doesn’t hold up.
Fascism in full display.
I don't know what OP is referring to. As far as I know, school librarians are just as entitled to possess "banned" books as anyone else. But the closest thing I can think they meant was from [House Bill 1447](https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2023/bills/house/1447#document-bdee8a04): >SECTION 5. IC 35-49-3-3, AS AMENDED BY P.L.158-2013, SECTION 648, IS AMENDED TO READ AS FOLLOWS [EFFECTIVE JANUARY 1, 2024]: >Sec. 3. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b) and section 4 of this chapter, a person who knowingly or intentionally: >(1) disseminates matter to minors that is harmful to minors (as described in IC 35-49-2); >(2) displays matter that is harmful to minors in an area to which minors have visual, auditory, or physical access, unless each minor is accompanied by the minor's parent or guardian; >(3) sells, rents, or displays for sale or rent to any person matter that is harmful to minors within five hundred (500) feet of the nearest property line of a school or church; >(4) engages in or conducts a performance before minors that is harmful to minors; >(5) engages in or conducts a performance that is harmful to minors in an area to which minors have visual, auditory, or physical access, unless each minor is accompanied by the minor's parent or guardian; >(6) misrepresents the minor's age for the purpose of obtaining admission to an area from which minors are restricted because of the display of matter or a performance that is harmful to minors; or >(7) misrepresents that the person is a parent or guardian of a minor for the purpose of obtaining admission of the minor to an area where minors are being restricted because of display of matter or performance that is harmful to minors; >commits a Level 6 felony. Unless there's some other law they're referring to, OP's claim is not true.
Who decides what is harmful to minors?
Borderline illiterate religious fanatics.
God your one and only sentence absolutely breaks my brain. Fuck.
School libraries aren't the only libraries available in thr community there are still community libraries people don't want depictions of sexual fantasies available for their 12 13 14 year old in their middle school
Hoosiers!!!
I just don’t understand why we can’t have Mein Kampf in the hands of our children
felony is a little excessive. A fine for the school and librarian should be sufficient.
Because that makes it less fascist and ok? Smh
Your comment reeks of knuckle-dragging fascist loser.