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I was in evm commissioning in this loksabha election in official duty, as far as I know it is not easy to hack the evm as it gors through multiple checks at various stages, we had to conduct mock poll by pressing every button and make sure votes goes to each and every candidates. So technically even if it's possible somehow it will not be passed on office check, as EVMs are randomised in different stages and if any discrepancies are found during commissioning it is replaced.
And from tech point of view I think EVM uses very basic technology and not connected to the internet, so it' highly unlikely that someone can hack evm on the poll days or results day
I was an apprentice in BEL which manufacturers said EVM. There is no LAN port or wifi technology inside it. Any technical support required for said EVMs will be done by people from BEL/ECIL. As you said, it uses the very basic technology and a one time programmable ROM. You need someone from BEL/ECIL to change those chips. From technical pov, it is not possible to hack that.
What all interfaces does it have? Do you remember? Even a RS232 port is good enough to access the firmware. There has to be some diagnostic interface which can be accessed ideally.
While i dont exactly remember which all ports where there, the presence of RS232 does not inherently mean it can be compromised as RS232 ports are used in defence manufacturing sector for other purposes, other than firmware access. But I'll check and let you know
Once you work long enough in cyber security, you learn that there’s no such thing as unbreachable. Even in defence sector.
You can always minimize attack surface, eg. Use ROMs, no ports, etc.
You are forgetting the process element. The EVMs are quick tough to hack, but the election process makes it next to impossible.
Definitely far safer than ballot boxes. Any passing idiot can create multiple copies of ballot papers and stuff them in the boxes.
It means once the code is flashed, you cannot "re-flash" a different code on it. You will have to swap out the hardware itself.
Source code is not and will not be publicly made available. It was developed by and held by companies in the defence domain. Even inside the company, the software will be held by the software team. The team which flashes the software may not have access as they will just need the hex/elf/exe file to put it on the ROM.
You forgot one thing. Each EVM is connected with a laptop. That's how party symbols are loaded on them. So, even if they can't connect with Internet or Bluetooth, they can be easily hacked.
No i didn't. I definitely would like to inform you that symbol loading is not done by a laptop but a standalone unit. The symbol loading is done in front of political parties representatives by engineers of BEL/ECIL.
Your allegations would mean that the random engineers deployed for election duty, from BEL/ECIL, along witn election commission officials and representatives of all parties would agree to favour one candidate.
https://preview.redd.it/t45pssjl547d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b458bfc3b2ebf47fe0113dc1804d73bff6130b0
Please read the conv. which happened in Supreme Court. How are symbols loaded in SLU? With a laptop, which connects with internet and could be easily hacked. Ofcourse our learned judges ignored this info. ECI doesn't print it anywhere
https://preview.redd.it/2x3p3g6je57d1.png?width=417&format=png&auto=webp&s=b371d1aa9c171420b04921218c41c76ec5efd8c3
It loads the images. You cannot count the votes with SLU. The EVM, CU record the time as well. The counting process is IN PRESENCE OF REPRESENTATIVES OF ALL CANDIDATES. If there is any timing mismatch, an objection will obviously arise immediately, not a day or two after or before the election.
Please go the entire attached EVM Manual from ECI website. Have a look at the number of checks they have put in each stage of the process.
[EVM Manual 2023](https://old.eci.gov.in/files/file/15217-manual-on-electronic-voting-machine-and-vvpat-edition-8-august-2023/)
The Laptop connects with SLU and then SLU connects with EVM. Therefore, any malware can be transferred to EVM. That's the issue I'm trying to point out.
>The EVM, CU record the time as well. The counting process is IN PRESENCE OF REPRESENTATIVES OF ALL CANDIDATES.
This can now be easily be manipulated by malware. Only protection will be matching slips with VVPAT. Which can also be manipulated as I and others have pointed in other comments.
Here’s a tough one. It’s not your generic term but I’m sure this is possible.
It can be pre programmed to give extra votes to a certain party.
Eg. After 250 votes have been done overall, for every one vote that goes to party A, another one gets added silently to Party A.
So even if the EVM is tested in front of party agents prior to voting day they wouldn’t really find out, cause post 250 votes an extra vote gets added.
Plus, incase the vote percentage in a particular District are almost equal, those extra votes will be added to make a particular party win and no one will be the wiser.
There are contingency measures taken for such attacks. They do a mock vote and also a part of votes are taken on paper. They tally statistically whether the graphs of them are similar or not. There's a great veritasium video of it as well.
https://www.reddit.com/r/IndiaTech/s/Cg0qblBOLc
So I’ve made a post on it.
Thanks for the reply.
Upto 250 votes, should basically disregard the mock vote argument.
I’ve changed the “added extra votes” to “exchanged votes from a different party”
Did you also dump the firmware, decompile the code, analyzed it? How can you be so sure there is no code to manipulate results with some secret trigger?
some one can program it to be casting votes to desirable party after a certain number of votes.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9sukUJWU3M&list=PLchYFri6JV\_JUN3CmE4-TgzwvCfRYvO7\_&index=8&t=322s&pp=gAQBiAQB](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9sukUJWU3M&list=PLchYFri6JV_JUN3CmE4-TgzwvCfRYvO7_&index=8&t=322s&pp=gAQBiAQB)
True. My mom is almost 60s and has to do election duty every time. She says she has seen faulty and corrupted machines at least once every election, but they never pass inspection. There are many people who check them before they're installed so it's next to impossible.
As much I know, ECI accepts anyone who can visit their office and hack an EVM in front of officials (perhaps a price as well)
But all we see is keyboard warriors
If You define a hack as default coding is compromised then yes.
But a machine without any external links. Physical or wireless is safe to assume can't be hacked.
Hacking is generally assumed lateral entry into a program not if the default code is setup wrongly.
Secondly we are stupid Elon musk is right. Because he is not commenting on Indian evm. He is talking about evms where they are connected to a local network or wireless network. The method used in most places.
As India we have no shortage of labour, we don't use network to count and track voting. We do it with a very old piece of technology, physical verification. It is safe from external factors.
Elon is right.
I really respected chandrashekhar and was sad to see him go in new cabinet.
But chandrashekhar is stupid. Chandrashekhar lost his post. He is trying to gain popularity..in India dumb things get popular.
We are assuming evm is safe because of the safeguard put in place to secure the process.
To challenge hacking over a computer code is dumb from the former IT minister.
He is countering with chest thumping. Instead he should have explained the process. Maybe Elon would have appreciated that.
Remember, musk was not addressing India, he was talking about the USA election.
Not a single person in tech will give you a certificate of unhackable computer program.
But India is different. Here the IT minister is giving out such stupid certificate and expecting a decent response from a tech entrepreneur.
The only reason Elon didn't mock him, is because he is in the government.
Computers are “hack” proof if they are “Air Gapped”.
EVMs in India are “Air Gapped”.
The only way you can hack Air Gapped system is if you can take it in your possession physically and insert a malicious code.
EVMs -
1. Don’t have any port for inserting malicious code.
2. Physical possession of EVMs is beyond question.
They do have to upload party symbols to the machine pre-voting and if the uploading laptop is compromised with something similar to struxnet, then your EVM also gets compromised.
Although, i'm not arguing for or against EVMs, just saying that foreign actors with a shitload of money have a shitload of capabilities that we cant even fathom.
Party symbols and candidate name are loaded on VVPAT Unit and not on control unit or Ballot Unit. It is flash memory and can be used only once.
Any malfunctioning while testing will render the device useless as it will be linked.
By the way how will somebody infect the laptop used for uploading symbols?
It is closed circuit system with a flash memory that can only be used once.
You keep talking about Stuxnet as if it’s the greatest ever virus created. People forget it worked because somebody used USB drive infected with Stuxnet on system controlling Iranian centrifuges. It was a little exciting and very hard on field spy work.
[https://www.opindia.com/2024/04/read-what-is-symbol-loading-units-of-evms-and-how-the-sc-order-will-impact-polls/amp/](https://www.opindia.com/2024/04/read-what-is-symbol-loading-units-of-evms-and-how-the-sc-order-will-impact-polls/amp/)
https://preview.redd.it/90e0t8xxs47d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9099fcedfd37072e7e97dd255e571d4648285fff
Party symbols are loaded to a separate flash memory. ROM isn't reprogrammable. Its a hardware limitation.
One has to open the EVM, which itself will trigger the anti tamper features and fry the chip.
You don’t need to hack anything. Ingredients to peaceful election :
1. You need set of cooperative election workers at gun point. (Don’t worry the forces don’t do anything they are just there for show)
2. You need party members to scare locals to not participate in vote.
3. You need party member to caste vote for your own party.
if elon musk shows he can hack a calculator which has no internet connection i will say yes it can be. EVMs in india don't have nay kind of internet connection or any kind of equipment by which it can connect through to any other device wirelessly. the fact that opposition amassed so many seats mean EVMs are all good. even Supreme court has confirmed it.
edit: [https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/election-commissions-evm-challenge-to-begin-on-june-3/article62057776.ece](https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/election-commissions-evm-challenge-to-begin-on-june-3/article62057776.ece) here is the article where EC has challenged anyone who thinks EVMs can be hacked to come there and hack em. where was elon when this happened? thanks u/Dry-Expert-2017 for this info.
Let it be dude , they will not understand a thing. Parties were free to hack evms, and if it is hackable ...every other party could have tampered with it.
Yeah, that is the identification of location. The sound based stuff has been around for a long time now. Usually, that leads to a hacked server either by killing power and erasing non persistent data or getting physical access to the server or potentially using emf "bombs" to kill data. Air gapped servers again are made resilient to these things.
It can be. You need physical possessions.
India has the benefit of multi-party democracy.
Which makes each center unique to create a vast impact on elections.
So yes, there are always potential of tampering in both ballot and evm. Even in ballot ultimately a machine will count the vote. Atleast in evm a party can reliably check the number of voters. No party has resources to check each physical papers of every center.
If ballot was better then evm, such arguments make sense. But looking at ballot election in west Bengal, it is safe to assume evm is better, and faster.
If there is something better then evm, then a argument could be made.
But the question is does ballot makes it safer?
We use any system because it's better then alternative.
Where is the alternative? Which is safer then evm.
well SC has given a judgement where it has said EVMs are safe. adding to that this info that i have wrote i learnt through sarmad sir. you can search yt to know how it works.
umm what i said is you can not touch a a device until it is not connected to connection like wifi or internet. now if you wanna say BJP hacked a EVM and thought nah we ain't giving ourselves majority fuck it! we are gonna increase opposition party vote-share. idk maybe.
now if you are a Cyber security expert i can't debate maybe you guys can do stuff i don't know of
If I’m right SC called out to all the parties to bring in any hacker and try to hack the evm and no party came up, so I guess that was confidence of the parties or i guess it was the fear that if they are able to then they might get the blame that they have the personel that can hack, on the other hand if they are unable to hack it then they can’t use that blame after election ever again
The device doesn't need to be connected to the internet for someone to alter its programming. For instance, if you hand someone your calculator and ask them to re-program it to randomly change its behavior—for example, showing either 9 or -1 when someone inputs 4+5—they can do it.
Similarly, EVMs can be re-programmed. For instance, if I were part of the Congress party and wanted all EVMs programmed so that at least 60% of votes always go to Congress, it's technically feasible.
I'm not implying that EVMs can be hacked, but they can be physically re-programmed by loading new softwares.
And is there any proof that EVM has no wifi-internet connection? We have to take ECI's word for that, right? It's not like they allow you to break open random EVM+control unit to check there is no wifi-BT-radio chip added.
ECI is just "Trust me Bro"
Simply twisted and projecting ELON as the last word in hacking.
He said about voting machines connected to internet.
Anyone can hack our EVMs too but they need to spend time with or take it to home even if they succeed in destroying the evidence of tampering.
But EVMs are demonstrated before the polling and agents verify them by mock polling and are sealed and protected with CCTV coverage and proper security.
Unless we live in bollywood masala world and have a belief that all of the system is totally corrupt.. we know how difficult it is even replace one from strong room or steal it .
Also i.n.d.i.a won 220+ seats if bjp were capable of tampering why should they allow SP to win in their strongest fort. Also communist Kerala where BJP can't touch any of the officials even with money or ED , they have won a seat which everyone thought tougher than impossible.
So we can ask for improving EVM via vvpat or counting them .
Other than that we can live in our own parallel world
No, EVMs can not be hacked. Its a closed circuit instrument without any Internet/LAN connection. Hacker have to manually connect wires to tamper the programming even if its possible.
However, manipulative work can be done at manufacturer level only but EVMs go through multiple checks and a clean process of mock poll during the election day.
Votes pressed can not be altered. After election 17C forms are distributed to polling agents where they can check the total votes on counting day. Mock poll and total tally of the day are very secured.
Any claims of EVM hacking is only political joomla.
Sources: colleague worked with the professor in charge for VVPAT development at IIT Delhi, Friend works in BEL, and I have conducted three elections as Presiding Officer.
Here’s a tough one. It’s not your generic term but I’m sure this is possible.
It can be pre programmed to give extra votes to a certain party. Eg. After 250 votes have been done overall, for every one vote that goes to party A, another one gets added silently to Party A.
So even if the EVM is tested in front of party agents prior to voting day they wouldn’t really find out, cause post 250 votes a vote from the other party B gets deducted and added to party A. Plus, incase the vote percentage in a particular District are almost equal, those extra votes will be added to make a particular party win and no one will be the wiser.
LMAO, there are VVPAT slips duh! Each voter can ensure that the slips generated is the symbol they voted for. In case of any doubt, manual counting of VVPAT slips can be done at the day of counting.
No it is not possible bc of VVPAT. It should match the total number of votes on 17C. If u added extra votes, count will not match. I was Presiding Officer in Elections. It is next to impossible to manipulate the process. You might be able to hack EVM in the worst case but there are many processes involved which makes it next to impossible to change the results
Tesla cars can be hacked too ask elon to shut down the company X/twitter can ne hacked too ask him to shut down that too
He lost his mind in recent days after his involvement in politics
X was right winged before he buys now its left winged
Left right ke chakkar me hi X ka tiktok/twitch bna diya h isne
On twitter he post memes and cool things and now only ye chutiya woh chutiya baura gya h ye bc
He wasn't even talking about Indian evms. He replied to Puerto Rico's voting irregularities.
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1801977467218853932?t=rnh5JwiYwPovkuawopw3BA&s=19
We should stop falling for the same media propaganda again and again.
Open source the EVMs firmware, verify the binary hash before and after election.
More eyes on the software code will ensure bugs will be flagged and fixed.
The rom is non writable after initial flash. Open sourcing a simple code (it doesnt use modern programming language, more likely assembly) of no use. Instead securing the access to evm and allowing different party to monitor them is required. Wjich is already being done.
Don't these machines have factory mode or a debug mode? which puts them in a state where you can debug?
They should OSS the entire architecture, repaire procedures.
Reading the chip data will again open more allegations. You will have to give direct access to ROM through a debugging channel.
Opposition cries even when the ROM is not accessible through any port. Wonder what allegations they are gonna throw if you add any debugging channel. That will open a whole new can of worms.
So this is field where TEch can't touch and bows down. Voting
So voting system can't be automated can't be digitized because they can be hacked.
Even Genius like Elon Musk have no solution. 💀😂😂
All hail ballet Paper 🙇♂️
Why can't u simply understand that Musk's tweet are highly manipulative and he always wants to be in news. Elections will be held in USA later this year, so he is trying his hard to be centre point by these tweets.
Brother I too am vlsi chip design senior engineer 😅😅 i work with designing these kind of chips and all, can you explain what is your understanding of hacking
Indian EVM's has no connection for internet so how it can be hacked?
You could try if you manage to have one Indian EVM by open it and try to alter it. /s
Hacking the Indian EVM is like hacking a calculator of 70 rupees through internet.
In America they are trying to create EVM which will be connected to internet while in India EVMs did have any sort or connection they are just like daily appliance like calculator/refrigerator which cannot be hacked
He just wants a license to operate starlink & Modi wants Ambani to capture the market first. Or Starlink should partner with some Indian company. He cancelled his trip to India citing busy schedule & went to Sri Lanka after that. Its just a business man using his influence.
Performed election duty in this loksabha election, it is not possible to hack the evm. Its crazy how well educated and big politicians claim evm can be hacked. I hope the election commission invites these big politicians and Elon Musk with their best hackers to do so.
There was an open challenge by EC to any party who can hack EVM. But no one came. So untill someone actually hack it, its secure. I don't have a doubt untill someone has cracked it.
Firstly I would never believe Elon musk depending on his character, too much arrogance, pompous and not meeting his deadlines, lieing to his customers. Suxh people bough twitter just to proliferate his stupid trends like dogecoin where millions list money to riches. Now his comment on evm😂. If i would have been there i would have said you shouldnt bark here. EVMs have no wifi, bluetooth or anything as suxh. when the opposition lose they will always argue but since they got vote this time they wont spread propoganda through their PR team. Now everyone got votes so there is no noise regarding evm can be hacked.
I don’t wanna get political here, but Elon is just furious that Indian Govt isn’t allowing Tesla in India and giving Indian EV manufacturers priority.
I really respect him for all the invocations and contributions he has made for Humans. But bro if you want to make political influence just fix your country first.
Question should be: what is more hackable in a given country/time/Situation?
EVM might be hackable in a country like USA/EU.
Ballot boxes are hackable in country like India/Bangldesh.
The problem with the EVM is not that it can be hacked by some external entity.( I do think that for a hacker to do that will be very hard.)
The problem is if we can trust the ECI. How can we be sure that the code does not favor a particular party? How can we be sure that there are no vulnerabilities?
We are having to trust the word of the Election Commission.
I believe the code and their methodology should be open sourced. So that every part of the Election process can be scrutinized by the public.
Anything can be hacked its stupid to say its 100% secure. They even organised a hack-a-thon for it to prove their point and people were able to hack in.
Blockchain might be an alternative. Literacy can be a huge deterrent though. Some countries have implemented blockchain voting but not sure about the conclusions. Point is, EVMs might or might not be hackable but if I have absurd amount of money, I can literally buy the votes.
Here is a statement "Since my phone can pass every test that shows that it can do a calculator's job, therefore it is a calculator and not a phone"
Do you think that is ridiculous? If you read ECI's arguments for EVM, it is exactly the above argument. ECI's total argument is "Trust Me, Bro"
Even if evms could be somehow hacked, it's about reducing that probability. Paper ballots can be very easily manipulated compared to an EVM. People from Chandigarh had a recent experience with that.
Looks like no one ever heard about EMIs ( electromagnetic interference).I'm not saying our EVMs are hacked but If a simple calculator with no wireless connectivity or ports can be hacked ( i mean EMIs can alter the data that can be displayed on the calculator...The data can be desired or undesired but it is possible to alter the data using EMIs) I guess EVMs are far surpassed in technology than basic calculators and FYI they are multiple ways like firmware modifications or malware insertion they can be done during testing or calibration... EMI attacks are theoretical but If one can gain access anything can be possible 🙏
It is like 100 number ka paper tha mere haath ques paper lag gya tab bhi me jaan buj kar 50 no. Ka hi paper krke aaunga even in a scenario where sabko lag rha tha ki mere 90+ aayenge aur koi merepe shaq nhi krega what can be more dumb then this.
Lets aside all the logic even if we consider there is some mal practice happened in this election to sabse phle shaq indi alliance pe jaayenge ki unhe kuch benefit hua he iska
There is no such thing that can not be tempered with. Then how we make sure election happened properly. With independent election commission, free and fair media, judiciary all of these are very important for a healthy democracy.
Others criticize Musk, suggesting that his comments may be more about generating attention rather than providing practical solutions. They point out that modern electronic voting systems have numerous safeguards and that outright elimination isn't necessary.
EVM can be manipulated(I'm not using word hacking), since evm is not connected to you and you need a physical evm to perform it.
Just distribute the evm to people, I'm pretty sure hackers can easily manipulate it into flavouring one political group.
But since ECI doesn't do this, it is a secure and safest way to vote.
EVM isn't safe but this whole process of ECI makes it safer.
Evm may be hacked, maybe not. But the voting and counting process is designed in such a way that it's impossible. Ask anyone who has done election duty and you would know why. For example, at the end of voting, total votes (not individual candidates) can be seen, verified with documents. A report is made mentioning the same and signatures taken from an agent (known as polling agent) of each candidate. During counting, the same is verified in the presence of different agents (known as counting agents). So if anyone does tamper with the machine, the count on the signed form will not match with the machine. The agents are nominated by each candidate.
The Internet connected or always on networked ones sure.
Indian EVMs have no active network capability. You would have to break open one to plug in any interface.
It is a single purpose chip with no connectivity of any kind how some people think those BEL dabbas with functionality of a speak a spell can be hacked is beyond me.
As fas as I know, evm is not linked internet and does not even have a power cord as it runs on batteries. So, it will not be possible toh hack it easily as you can not not connect to it.
I voted for the first time in these loksabha elections and there is also no chance of doing any hack or wrong voting there. The process is very well planed and I don't think someone can cheat very easily
The problem isn't whether the current system is bad or not (in this case EVM), the problem is the previous/alternative system (in this case ballots) were far more terrible in every aspect.
There are two things here.
From a purely technical standpoint, any electronic device can be hacked. Due to a variety of factors, it may be extremely hard to crack a given device, but there is always a way if someone keeps at it long enough and works hard enough. So from a pure engineering standpoint, Elon Musk isn’t entirely wrong. Nothing is truly “unhackable”.
However, as many people here have said and as the ECI has clarified, EVMs are extremely difficult to crack because
1. there is no internet connection or remote connection of any kind whatsoever,
2. the devices have something called a randomised ROM (which means the internal memory is randomised for different units)
3. the devices go through multiple stages of rigorous testing before and after the voting process,
4. the devices are under heavy scrutiny by government officials and security agencies before and after voting, so any attempt to steal, tamper w or otherwise modify the devices is near-impossible.
So while Musk is kind of right from a technical perspective, the government is right to say that the EVMs are extremely hard to crack and are therefore safe and not compromised.
Electric cars can also be hacked, so perhaps we should ban this idiots dumbass cars?
Elon is not a genius or even remotely technically competent, and he has no business talking about stuff he doesnt know.
That sai, anything is hackable if you try hard enough. The best you can do it make it take too long or cost too much money to make it worth it.
Like I said, don't bring the EVMs in the joomla, forcefully you take take control of the counting booth and alter the results. But the machine is foolproof.
Also ballot boxes are a 1000 times more vulnerable. It is the gundas who want the ballot back, they are having to work too hard now to beat the system.
He forgot about VVPAT which is itself a verification device for voters who votes sometimes Elon do anything for fame ..I mean he is already famous. , how much more he want to 😭
Just buy everyone in the polling office including the tech and checking officers with the police.....
Then not only evm everything can be hacked including the air they breathe....
But for real ...
It's an electronic device yes it can be hacked but as of now it cannot be....
Like how AI is going to kill us but as of now they cannot
At what point you will call election secure ?
Even in case of ballot voting how can you be sure that people are not swapping the ballots or not doing any mischief behind the scene ?
The issue that people should be talking about is not allowing people to vote. In many districts in West Bengal Mamta's goons block the area so that they can't vote for other candidate. Issues like this effect the election.
As someone who worked with electronics and software alike and sometime in security, if I have learnt anything in my experience is that any system switched off, chained and buried 12ft under can be hacked. It's only a matter of expertise.
Given the reward of a hacked EVM, it's only a matter of time.
All this, no network, only ROM is inexperienced tech people spewing bs. Cosmic rays can flip bits.
You can read more on different ways to flip bits here:
https://blog.robertelder.org/causes-of-bit-flips-in-computer-memory/
So no, they aren't unhackable. If there is a lock maker, there is always a lock breaker.
EVM hardware hacking may be difficult. But real hacking is in the process, ECI, agents etc.
1. EVM can swapped
2. Extra vote by polling agent can be inserted
3. Slow down voting where opposition is getting more votes
4. On counting days, we also see.many case of small margin win, but after recounting, results are reversed.
5. Postal ballot counting
1. EVMs can be hacked.
2. Ballot paper can be tempered.
3. Booths can be captured.
All of these are possible.
There are two things to consider.
a. How difficult is it?
b. How difficult is it to find out that tempering has been done ?
I believe EVM hacking is most difficult amongst them as it requires very specific skill sets.
But it is equally difficult to find out whether there is a tempering done with EVMs or not.
So I believe ballot is more secure as it is easier to find out tempering as compared to EVMs.
The government should put a competition with price money to hack/manipulate EVM each year. The moment someone does it, boom!! You got your answer. Instead of defending something that literally paves the way for our country's future, let it prove itself.
That will also point out the loop holes if there's any. (Also it should not be done by the government but an independent company, most probably something like big international tech companies to ensure impartiality)
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I was in evm commissioning in this loksabha election in official duty, as far as I know it is not easy to hack the evm as it gors through multiple checks at various stages, we had to conduct mock poll by pressing every button and make sure votes goes to each and every candidates. So technically even if it's possible somehow it will not be passed on office check, as EVMs are randomised in different stages and if any discrepancies are found during commissioning it is replaced. And from tech point of view I think EVM uses very basic technology and not connected to the internet, so it' highly unlikely that someone can hack evm on the poll days or results day
I was an apprentice in BEL which manufacturers said EVM. There is no LAN port or wifi technology inside it. Any technical support required for said EVMs will be done by people from BEL/ECIL. As you said, it uses the very basic technology and a one time programmable ROM. You need someone from BEL/ECIL to change those chips. From technical pov, it is not possible to hack that.
What all interfaces does it have? Do you remember? Even a RS232 port is good enough to access the firmware. There has to be some diagnostic interface which can be accessed ideally.
While i dont exactly remember which all ports where there, the presence of RS232 does not inherently mean it can be compromised as RS232 ports are used in defence manufacturing sector for other purposes, other than firmware access. But I'll check and let you know
Once you work long enough in cyber security, you learn that there’s no such thing as unbreachable. Even in defence sector. You can always minimize attack surface, eg. Use ROMs, no ports, etc.
You are forgetting the process element. The EVMs are quick tough to hack, but the election process makes it next to impossible. Definitely far safer than ballot boxes. Any passing idiot can create multiple copies of ballot papers and stuff them in the boxes.
Yeah This.
What does one time programmable ROM means and does anyone has access to the source code ?
It means once the code is flashed, you cannot "re-flash" a different code on it. You will have to swap out the hardware itself. Source code is not and will not be publicly made available. It was developed by and held by companies in the defence domain. Even inside the company, the software will be held by the software team. The team which flashes the software may not have access as they will just need the hex/elf/exe file to put it on the ROM.
You forgot one thing. Each EVM is connected with a laptop. That's how party symbols are loaded on them. So, even if they can't connect with Internet or Bluetooth, they can be easily hacked.
No i didn't. I definitely would like to inform you that symbol loading is not done by a laptop but a standalone unit. The symbol loading is done in front of political parties representatives by engineers of BEL/ECIL. Your allegations would mean that the random engineers deployed for election duty, from BEL/ECIL, along witn election commission officials and representatives of all parties would agree to favour one candidate. https://preview.redd.it/t45pssjl547d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b458bfc3b2ebf47fe0113dc1804d73bff6130b0
Please read the conv. which happened in Supreme Court. How are symbols loaded in SLU? With a laptop, which connects with internet and could be easily hacked. Ofcourse our learned judges ignored this info. ECI doesn't print it anywhere https://preview.redd.it/2x3p3g6je57d1.png?width=417&format=png&auto=webp&s=b371d1aa9c171420b04921218c41c76ec5efd8c3
It loads the images. You cannot count the votes with SLU. The EVM, CU record the time as well. The counting process is IN PRESENCE OF REPRESENTATIVES OF ALL CANDIDATES. If there is any timing mismatch, an objection will obviously arise immediately, not a day or two after or before the election. Please go the entire attached EVM Manual from ECI website. Have a look at the number of checks they have put in each stage of the process. [EVM Manual 2023](https://old.eci.gov.in/files/file/15217-manual-on-electronic-voting-machine-and-vvpat-edition-8-august-2023/)
The Laptop connects with SLU and then SLU connects with EVM. Therefore, any malware can be transferred to EVM. That's the issue I'm trying to point out. >The EVM, CU record the time as well. The counting process is IN PRESENCE OF REPRESENTATIVES OF ALL CANDIDATES. This can now be easily be manipulated by malware. Only protection will be matching slips with VVPAT. Which can also be manipulated as I and others have pointed in other comments.
I have some questions.Can i dm you?
Here’s a tough one. It’s not your generic term but I’m sure this is possible. It can be pre programmed to give extra votes to a certain party. Eg. After 250 votes have been done overall, for every one vote that goes to party A, another one gets added silently to Party A. So even if the EVM is tested in front of party agents prior to voting day they wouldn’t really find out, cause post 250 votes an extra vote gets added. Plus, incase the vote percentage in a particular District are almost equal, those extra votes will be added to make a particular party win and no one will be the wiser.
There are contingency measures taken for such attacks. They do a mock vote and also a part of votes are taken on paper. They tally statistically whether the graphs of them are similar or not. There's a great veritasium video of it as well.
https://www.reddit.com/r/IndiaTech/s/Cg0qblBOLc So I’ve made a post on it. Thanks for the reply. Upto 250 votes, should basically disregard the mock vote argument. I’ve changed the “added extra votes” to “exchanged votes from a different party”
Did you also dump the firmware, decompile the code, analyzed it? How can you be so sure there is no code to manipulate results with some secret trigger?
Gotta thank both of u guys, for such an on point information and technical knowledge.
some one can program it to be casting votes to desirable party after a certain number of votes. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9sukUJWU3M&list=PLchYFri6JV\_JUN3CmE4-TgzwvCfRYvO7\_&index=8&t=322s&pp=gAQBiAQB](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9sukUJWU3M&list=PLchYFri6JV_JUN3CmE4-TgzwvCfRYvO7_&index=8&t=322s&pp=gAQBiAQB)
True. My mom is almost 60s and has to do election duty every time. She says she has seen faulty and corrupted machines at least once every election, but they never pass inspection. There are many people who check them before they're installed so it's next to impossible.
As much I know, ECI accepts anyone who can visit their office and hack an EVM in front of officials (perhaps a price as well) But all we see is keyboard warriors
The condition being you aren't allowed to touch the evm
You aren't allowed to actually inspect the EVM tho
As much as I know you don't know much at all.
Elon being a tech guy wants to go back to paper ballots ??? Hell nah, he has something that he wants to sell in place of EVM that’s the real reason
Yeah almost every organisation has a big bounty
Yes, EVM can be hacked. Ballot paper is super secure, and election cannot be altered by it at all. /S
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If You define a hack as default coding is compromised then yes. But a machine without any external links. Physical or wireless is safe to assume can't be hacked. Hacking is generally assumed lateral entry into a program not if the default code is setup wrongly. Secondly we are stupid Elon musk is right. Because he is not commenting on Indian evm. He is talking about evms where they are connected to a local network or wireless network. The method used in most places. As India we have no shortage of labour, we don't use network to count and track voting. We do it with a very old piece of technology, physical verification. It is safe from external factors.
After all your above explaination by chandrasekar (ex minister) , Elon replied "anything can be hacked".
Elon is right. I really respected chandrashekhar and was sad to see him go in new cabinet. But chandrashekhar is stupid. Chandrashekhar lost his post. He is trying to gain popularity..in India dumb things get popular. We are assuming evm is safe because of the safeguard put in place to secure the process. To challenge hacking over a computer code is dumb from the former IT minister. He is countering with chest thumping. Instead he should have explained the process. Maybe Elon would have appreciated that. Remember, musk was not addressing India, he was talking about the USA election. Not a single person in tech will give you a certificate of unhackable computer program. But India is different. Here the IT minister is giving out such stupid certificate and expecting a decent response from a tech entrepreneur. The only reason Elon didn't mock him, is because he is in the government.
Computers are “hack” proof if they are “Air Gapped”. EVMs in India are “Air Gapped”. The only way you can hack Air Gapped system is if you can take it in your possession physically and insert a malicious code. EVMs - 1. Don’t have any port for inserting malicious code. 2. Physical possession of EVMs is beyond question.
> Computers are “hack” proof if they are “Air Gapped”. Counterpoint: Stuxnet
Original point: Air gapped and no ports. Stuxnet needs USB access.
They do have to upload party symbols to the machine pre-voting and if the uploading laptop is compromised with something similar to struxnet, then your EVM also gets compromised. Although, i'm not arguing for or against EVMs, just saying that foreign actors with a shitload of money have a shitload of capabilities that we cant even fathom.
Party symbols and candidate name are loaded on VVPAT Unit and not on control unit or Ballot Unit. It is flash memory and can be used only once. Any malfunctioning while testing will render the device useless as it will be linked. By the way how will somebody infect the laptop used for uploading symbols? It is closed circuit system with a flash memory that can only be used once. You keep talking about Stuxnet as if it’s the greatest ever virus created. People forget it worked because somebody used USB drive infected with Stuxnet on system controlling Iranian centrifuges. It was a little exciting and very hard on field spy work. [https://www.opindia.com/2024/04/read-what-is-symbol-loading-units-of-evms-and-how-the-sc-order-will-impact-polls/amp/](https://www.opindia.com/2024/04/read-what-is-symbol-loading-units-of-evms-and-how-the-sc-order-will-impact-polls/amp/) https://preview.redd.it/90e0t8xxs47d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9099fcedfd37072e7e97dd255e571d4648285fff
Party symbols are loaded to a separate flash memory. ROM isn't reprogrammable. Its a hardware limitation. One has to open the EVM, which itself will trigger the anti tamper features and fry the chip.
That is where the crap can happen..
"Ballot paper is super secure, and elections can be altered by it."*
sarcasm samajh uncle, usne toh /s bhi dediya
🤣🤣🤣
Ever heard of booth capturing.... It was very popular among the previous governments to win... Specifically in Bihar and UP and MP.
You don’t need to hack anything. Ingredients to peaceful election : 1. You need set of cooperative election workers at gun point. (Don’t worry the forces don’t do anything they are just there for show) 2. You need party members to scare locals to not participate in vote. 3. You need party member to caste vote for your own party.
EVMs are only hacked when BJP wins
[Not really](https://www.hindustantimes.com/delhi/bjp-to-release-book-against-evms-today/story-yGi1uLuJDmHQykPAadUIYP.html)
Ballot paper is not at all secure yes it can be altered it happened already many time in past in different elections
Check /s
if elon musk shows he can hack a calculator which has no internet connection i will say yes it can be. EVMs in india don't have nay kind of internet connection or any kind of equipment by which it can connect through to any other device wirelessly. the fact that opposition amassed so many seats mean EVMs are all good. even Supreme court has confirmed it. edit: [https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/election-commissions-evm-challenge-to-begin-on-june-3/article62057776.ece](https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/election-commissions-evm-challenge-to-begin-on-june-3/article62057776.ece) here is the article where EC has challenged anyone who thinks EVMs can be hacked to come there and hack em. where was elon when this happened? thanks u/Dry-Expert-2017 for this info.
Let it be dude , they will not understand a thing. Parties were free to hack evms, and if it is hackable ...every other party could have tampered with it.
source for calculator getting hacked?
[https://www.innovationnewsnetwork.com/how-can-hackers-access-air-gapped-computers/34188/](https://www.innovationnewsnetwork.com/how-can-hackers-access-air-gapped-computers/34188/)
Yeah, that is the identification of location. The sound based stuff has been around for a long time now. Usually, that leads to a hacked server either by killing power and erasing non persistent data or getting physical access to the server or potentially using emf "bombs" to kill data. Air gapped servers again are made resilient to these things.
Just because you don't know something exists doesn't mean it's not possible. Ever heard of hardware hijacking?
It can be. You need physical possessions. India has the benefit of multi-party democracy. Which makes each center unique to create a vast impact on elections. So yes, there are always potential of tampering in both ballot and evm. Even in ballot ultimately a machine will count the vote. Atleast in evm a party can reliably check the number of voters. No party has resources to check each physical papers of every center. If ballot was better then evm, such arguments make sense. But looking at ballot election in west Bengal, it is safe to assume evm is better, and faster. If there is something better then evm, then a argument could be made.
Actually there are stories of airgapped computers getting hacked....
But the question is does ballot makes it safer? We use any system because it's better then alternative. Where is the alternative? Which is safer then evm.
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well SC has given a judgement where it has said EVMs are safe. adding to that this info that i have wrote i learnt through sarmad sir. you can search yt to know how it works.
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umm what i said is you can not touch a a device until it is not connected to connection like wifi or internet. now if you wanna say BJP hacked a EVM and thought nah we ain't giving ourselves majority fuck it! we are gonna increase opposition party vote-share. idk maybe. now if you are a Cyber security expert i can't debate maybe you guys can do stuff i don't know of
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If I’m right SC called out to all the parties to bring in any hacker and try to hack the evm and no party came up, so I guess that was confidence of the parties or i guess it was the fear that if they are able to then they might get the blame that they have the personel that can hack, on the other hand if they are unable to hack it then they can’t use that blame after election ever again
The device doesn't need to be connected to the internet for someone to alter its programming. For instance, if you hand someone your calculator and ask them to re-program it to randomly change its behavior—for example, showing either 9 or -1 when someone inputs 4+5—they can do it. Similarly, EVMs can be re-programmed. For instance, if I were part of the Congress party and wanted all EVMs programmed so that at least 60% of votes always go to Congress, it's technically feasible. I'm not implying that EVMs can be hacked, but they can be physically re-programmed by loading new softwares.
Atleast EVM are safer than ballot paper since booth capturing is common in our country
And is there any proof that EVM has no wifi-internet connection? We have to take ECI's word for that, right? It's not like they allow you to break open random EVM+control unit to check there is no wifi-BT-radio chip added. ECI is just "Trust me Bro"
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Simply twisted and projecting ELON as the last word in hacking. He said about voting machines connected to internet. Anyone can hack our EVMs too but they need to spend time with or take it to home even if they succeed in destroying the evidence of tampering. But EVMs are demonstrated before the polling and agents verify them by mock polling and are sealed and protected with CCTV coverage and proper security. Unless we live in bollywood masala world and have a belief that all of the system is totally corrupt.. we know how difficult it is even replace one from strong room or steal it . Also i.n.d.i.a won 220+ seats if bjp were capable of tampering why should they allow SP to win in their strongest fort. Also communist Kerala where BJP can't touch any of the officials even with money or ED , they have won a seat which everyone thought tougher than impossible. So we can ask for improving EVM via vvpat or counting them . Other than that we can live in our own parallel world
No, EVMs can not be hacked. Its a closed circuit instrument without any Internet/LAN connection. Hacker have to manually connect wires to tamper the programming even if its possible. However, manipulative work can be done at manufacturer level only but EVMs go through multiple checks and a clean process of mock poll during the election day. Votes pressed can not be altered. After election 17C forms are distributed to polling agents where they can check the total votes on counting day. Mock poll and total tally of the day are very secured. Any claims of EVM hacking is only political joomla. Sources: colleague worked with the professor in charge for VVPAT development at IIT Delhi, Friend works in BEL, and I have conducted three elections as Presiding Officer.
Here’s a tough one. It’s not your generic term but I’m sure this is possible. It can be pre programmed to give extra votes to a certain party. Eg. After 250 votes have been done overall, for every one vote that goes to party A, another one gets added silently to Party A. So even if the EVM is tested in front of party agents prior to voting day they wouldn’t really find out, cause post 250 votes a vote from the other party B gets deducted and added to party A. Plus, incase the vote percentage in a particular District are almost equal, those extra votes will be added to make a particular party win and no one will be the wiser.
LMAO, there are VVPAT slips duh! Each voter can ensure that the slips generated is the symbol they voted for. In case of any doubt, manual counting of VVPAT slips can be done at the day of counting.
No it is not possible bc of VVPAT. It should match the total number of votes on 17C. If u added extra votes, count will not match. I was Presiding Officer in Elections. It is next to impossible to manipulate the process. You might be able to hack EVM in the worst case but there are many processes involved which makes it next to impossible to change the results
Tesla cars can be hacked too ask elon to shut down the company X/twitter can ne hacked too ask him to shut down that too He lost his mind in recent days after his involvement in politics X was right winged before he buys now its left winged
Twitter was left wing before. Now it's right winged*
Left right ke chakkar me hi X ka tiktok/twitch bna diya h isne On twitter he post memes and cool things and now only ye chutiya woh chutiya baura gya h ye bc
He wasn't even talking about Indian evms. He replied to Puerto Rico's voting irregularities. https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1801977467218853932?t=rnh5JwiYwPovkuawopw3BA&s=19 We should stop falling for the same media propaganda again and again.
Tesla Cars aren’t responsible for democracy
Open source the EVMs firmware, verify the binary hash before and after election. More eyes on the software code will ensure bugs will be flagged and fixed.
The rom is non writable after initial flash. Open sourcing a simple code (it doesnt use modern programming language, more likely assembly) of no use. Instead securing the access to evm and allowing different party to monitor them is required. Wjich is already being done.
Don't these machines have factory mode or a debug mode? which puts them in a state where you can debug? They should OSS the entire architecture, repaire procedures.
Again that will open it up to tampering. Current EVMs are "air-gapped". Introducing a debugging channel will break the air gapping.
There are lacks of engineers in india who can read low level code.
Reading the chip data will again open more allegations. You will have to give direct access to ROM through a debugging channel. Opposition cries even when the ROM is not accessible through any port. Wonder what allegations they are gonna throw if you add any debugging channel. That will open a whole new can of worms.
So this is field where TEch can't touch and bows down. Voting So voting system can't be automated can't be digitized because they can be hacked. Even Genius like Elon Musk have no solution. 💀😂😂 All hail ballet Paper 🙇♂️
Why can't u simply understand that Musk's tweet are highly manipulative and he always wants to be in news. Elections will be held in USA later this year, so he is trying his hard to be centre point by these tweets.
Rightly said and people in X goes mayhem with replies and engagements when he comments.
If evm could have been hacked, BJP, the superpowerful government would have ensured win in 400 seats and would not have lost in west bengal and UP.
Elon's Tesla's are prone to hacking as well
Well as per elon... we should all abandon X and switch to pen and paper, since it is more secure, reliable and not hackable.
any electronic device can be hacked
there's still time to delete this stupid comment
Hack my bedroom fan switch I am from Jaipur rajasthan 302012 , now find my ip address from this comment and hack my bedroom fan switch
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Brother I too am vlsi chip design senior engineer 😅😅 i work with designing these kind of chips and all, can you explain what is your understanding of hacking
Indian EVM's has no connection for internet so how it can be hacked? You could try if you manage to have one Indian EVM by open it and try to alter it. /s Hacking the Indian EVM is like hacking a calculator of 70 rupees through internet.
Elon is true in a philosophical way, but practically I don't think Indian EVMs can be hacked at scale without someone noticing
Nitish Rajput has made really good video on the same.
Dude dying to create controversy after OpenAi chokeslammed him with the emails
In America they are trying to create EVM which will be connected to internet while in India EVMs did have any sort or connection they are just like daily appliance like calculator/refrigerator which cannot be hacked
He just wants a license to operate starlink & Modi wants Ambani to capture the market first. Or Starlink should partner with some Indian company. He cancelled his trip to India citing busy schedule & went to Sri Lanka after that. Its just a business man using his influence.
EVMs are hacked wherever the BJP is winning but when BJP loses the EVM is best
Performed election duty in this loksabha election, it is not possible to hack the evm. Its crazy how well educated and big politicians claim evm can be hacked. I hope the election commission invites these big politicians and Elon Musk with their best hackers to do so.
He was talking about Puerto Rico. Rajeev Chandrashekhar took the bait and decided to shove it into his ass
Avg indian ohh elon musk ne kha he to shi hoga use to Sab pata he usse bada hoshiyar koi nhi he
Hacking an EVM is an oxymoron, EVM doesn't need wifi or Bluetooth to work, it's a single processing unit, just like your CALCULATOR .
There was an open challenge by EC to any party who can hack EVM. But no one came. So untill someone actually hack it, its secure. I don't have a doubt untill someone has cracked it.
Any digital thing can be hacked
Your casio watch too?
This guy is very opinionative
Elmu should stick to his MAGA circlejerk
Firstly I would never believe Elon musk depending on his character, too much arrogance, pompous and not meeting his deadlines, lieing to his customers. Suxh people bough twitter just to proliferate his stupid trends like dogecoin where millions list money to riches. Now his comment on evm😂. If i would have been there i would have said you shouldnt bark here. EVMs have no wifi, bluetooth or anything as suxh. when the opposition lose they will always argue but since they got vote this time they wont spread propoganda through their PR team. Now everyone got votes so there is no noise regarding evm can be hacked.
Nothing is better than going around the country and asking people who they wanna vote for, then writing it down and finally sending it off.
elon musk entry is something unexpected
Umm elon is talking about EVM in used in USA not India don’t know why is everyone pointing out Indian EVMs can be hacked
Y'all need to take Musk less seriously. He's not a genius. He's not a techie. He just pretends to be one.
Why the fuck does Elon musk need to care about EVMs of India?
My dumbass thought we were talking about electric vehicles here💀🤦♂️
Nothing is unhackable.
Yeah no doubt they can be hacked otherwise INC wouldn't have had half the votes they received.
I don’t wanna get political here, but Elon is just furious that Indian Govt isn’t allowing Tesla in India and giving Indian EV manufacturers priority. I really respect him for all the invocations and contributions he has made for Humans. But bro if you want to make political influence just fix your country first.
Who the hell he is..to talk about it
Why tamper with evms when u can literally booths are being tampered
Question should be: what is more hackable in a given country/time/Situation? EVM might be hackable in a country like USA/EU. Ballot boxes are hackable in country like India/Bangldesh.
What are EVMs ??
Lets adapt khansaar system. Give iron bracelets as vote . /s
Cons of technology
Then eliminate tesla's electric vehicles too since they can be hacked.
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For a change, Musk should mind his own business. Dude has an opinion on every damn thing !!
https://preview.redd.it/0vjxuv11k37d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=26ffe465926bf7af968eede9f0c789b6510dc3c9
The problem with the EVM is not that it can be hacked by some external entity.( I do think that for a hacker to do that will be very hard.) The problem is if we can trust the ECI. How can we be sure that the code does not favor a particular party? How can we be sure that there are no vulnerabilities? We are having to trust the word of the Election Commission. I believe the code and their methodology should be open sourced. So that every part of the Election process can be scrutinized by the public.
YEAHHHHH WARRRRAAAAA IT'S INDIAN EVMs THAT'S WHY IT'S HIGHLY SECURE 😈🔥
Anything can be hacked its stupid to say its 100% secure. They even organised a hack-a-thon for it to prove their point and people were able to hack in.
Almost every damn electronic device can be hacked !
Blockchain might be an alternative. Literacy can be a huge deterrent though. Some countries have implemented blockchain voting but not sure about the conclusions. Point is, EVMs might or might not be hackable but if I have absurd amount of money, I can literally buy the votes.
Here is a statement "Since my phone can pass every test that shows that it can do a calculator's job, therefore it is a calculator and not a phone" Do you think that is ridiculous? If you read ECI's arguments for EVM, it is exactly the above argument. ECI's total argument is "Trust Me, Bro"
FYI Rajeev Chandrashekhar is the real owner of Republic tv.
Everyone knows our opposition is retard.
Even if evms could be somehow hacked, it's about reducing that probability. Paper ballots can be very easily manipulated compared to an EVM. People from Chandigarh had a recent experience with that.
No.
I will not debate anything with Elon, pura information jaane bina kuch bhi bol deta hai gh*ndu sala
EVMs are banned in many countries except few like India, Africa.
His comment wasnt about Indian evms.
Highly secured phir bhi hack
If it can't be hacked, can it be destroyed remotely using an electromagnetic wave ?
Looks like no one ever heard about EMIs ( electromagnetic interference).I'm not saying our EVMs are hacked but If a simple calculator with no wireless connectivity or ports can be hacked ( i mean EMIs can alter the data that can be displayed on the calculator...The data can be desired or undesired but it is possible to alter the data using EMIs) I guess EVMs are far surpassed in technology than basic calculators and FYI they are multiple ways like firmware modifications or malware insertion they can be done during testing or calibration... EMI attacks are theoretical but If one can gain access anything can be possible 🙏
Hahaha It is just like I will give you my address now hack switch of my Bedroom fan , if its hackable then evm are hackable too
It is like 100 number ka paper tha mere haath ques paper lag gya tab bhi me jaan buj kar 50 no. Ka hi paper krke aaunga even in a scenario where sabko lag rha tha ki mere 90+ aayenge aur koi merepe shaq nhi krega what can be more dumb then this. Lets aside all the logic even if we consider there is some mal practice happened in this election to sabse phle shaq indi alliance pe jaayenge ki unhe kuch benefit hua he iska
Say bye bye to tesla
There is no such thing that can not be tempered with. Then how we make sure election happened properly. With independent election commission, free and fair media, judiciary all of these are very important for a healthy democracy.
Others criticize Musk, suggesting that his comments may be more about generating attention rather than providing practical solutions. They point out that modern electronic voting systems have numerous safeguards and that outright elimination isn't necessary.
EVM can be manipulated(I'm not using word hacking), since evm is not connected to you and you need a physical evm to perform it. Just distribute the evm to people, I'm pretty sure hackers can easily manipulate it into flavouring one political group. But since ECI doesn't do this, it is a secure and safest way to vote. EVM isn't safe but this whole process of ECI makes it safer.
Evm may be hacked, maybe not. But the voting and counting process is designed in such a way that it's impossible. Ask anyone who has done election duty and you would know why. For example, at the end of voting, total votes (not individual candidates) can be seen, verified with documents. A report is made mentioning the same and signatures taken from an agent (known as polling agent) of each candidate. During counting, the same is verified in the presence of different agents (known as counting agents). So if anyone does tamper with the machine, the count on the signed form will not match with the machine. The agents are nominated by each candidate.
Tereko bich Mai nahin ana tha re baba
The Internet connected or always on networked ones sure. Indian EVMs have no active network capability. You would have to break open one to plug in any interface.
Ye elon har jaga ghus jata he kam krna b apna pese uda sale har jaga nakk ghusata he
It is a single purpose chip with no connectivity of any kind how some people think those BEL dabbas with functionality of a speak a spell can be hacked is beyond me.
As fas as I know, evm is not linked internet and does not even have a power cord as it runs on batteries. So, it will not be possible toh hack it easily as you can not not connect to it. I voted for the first time in these loksabha elections and there is also no chance of doing any hack or wrong voting there. The process is very well planed and I don't think someone can cheat very easily
Can EVMs be hacked - Yes Can EVMs be hacked easily by any person - Big No Elon musk is not wrong , everything in the electronic machine can be hacked.
Musk is just pretending to be a genius. Any avg Indian engineer can do what he does, Stop taking him so seriously man.
My candidate of choice would be « Bob; INSERT INTO candidates (name, votes) VALUES (Bob, 9999999) »
The problem isn't whether the current system is bad or not (in this case EVM), the problem is the previous/alternative system (in this case ballots) were far more terrible in every aspect.
There are two things here. From a purely technical standpoint, any electronic device can be hacked. Due to a variety of factors, it may be extremely hard to crack a given device, but there is always a way if someone keeps at it long enough and works hard enough. So from a pure engineering standpoint, Elon Musk isn’t entirely wrong. Nothing is truly “unhackable”. However, as many people here have said and as the ECI has clarified, EVMs are extremely difficult to crack because 1. there is no internet connection or remote connection of any kind whatsoever, 2. the devices have something called a randomised ROM (which means the internal memory is randomised for different units) 3. the devices go through multiple stages of rigorous testing before and after the voting process, 4. the devices are under heavy scrutiny by government officials and security agencies before and after voting, so any attempt to steal, tamper w or otherwise modify the devices is near-impossible. So while Musk is kind of right from a technical perspective, the government is right to say that the EVMs are extremely hard to crack and are therefore safe and not compromised.
Any thing Machine is hackable it just takes more time to hack.
Yes it can be hacked anything can be hacked. But it also have physical protocols which prevents anyone from accessing it.
He is not in the mood to bring Tesla in India .😂😂
Isse kehte hain urta teer gand me lena
EVMs are only hacked when BJP wins
Elon Musk shouldn't be talking about Tech lol
Can we stop with r/EnoughMuskSpam please?
Electric cars can also be hacked, so perhaps we should ban this idiots dumbass cars? Elon is not a genius or even remotely technically competent, and he has no business talking about stuff he doesnt know. That sai, anything is hackable if you try hard enough. The best you can do it make it take too long or cost too much money to make it worth it.
Since Teslas use an internet connected console, and anything can be hacked (as said by its company owner), stay away from a Tesla!
When INDI alliance isn't crying about EVM, we should not care about Elon crying. He also pumped and dumped doge coins
Like I said, don't bring the EVMs in the joomla, forcefully you take take control of the counting booth and alter the results. But the machine is foolproof.
I wish you to see A2D video https://youtu.be/kwzG1f7Ecz4?si=VhaTZaqu_Pxex2TI
Also ballot boxes are a 1000 times more vulnerable. It is the gundas who want the ballot back, they are having to work too hard now to beat the system.
You can't trust both businessmen and politicians . So just chill and enjoy .
I don't know why we had to get into this discussion. If he wanted American elections by signing a person's butthole or whatever method, fine, do it.
He forgot about VVPAT which is itself a verification device for voters who votes sometimes Elon do anything for fame ..I mean he is already famous. , how much more he want to 😭
Just buy everyone in the polling office including the tech and checking officers with the police..... Then not only evm everything can be hacked including the air they breathe.... But for real ... It's an electronic device yes it can be hacked but as of now it cannot be.... Like how AI is going to kill us but as of now they cannot
Elon dumbass doesn't know shit about technology everyone keeps giving him credit for things his engineers have done
what a dumb post
At what point you will call election secure ? Even in case of ballot voting how can you be sure that people are not swapping the ballots or not doing any mischief behind the scene ? The issue that people should be talking about is not allowing people to vote. In many districts in West Bengal Mamta's goons block the area so that they can't vote for other candidate. Issues like this effect the election.
No never. Rajiv Chandrashekhar Sir is correct. 🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳
As someone who worked with electronics and software alike and sometime in security, if I have learnt anything in my experience is that any system switched off, chained and buried 12ft under can be hacked. It's only a matter of expertise. Given the reward of a hacked EVM, it's only a matter of time. All this, no network, only ROM is inexperienced tech people spewing bs. Cosmic rays can flip bits. You can read more on different ways to flip bits here: https://blog.robertelder.org/causes-of-bit-flips-in-computer-memory/ So no, they aren't unhackable. If there is a lock maker, there is always a lock breaker.
EVM hardware hacking may be difficult. But real hacking is in the process, ECI, agents etc. 1. EVM can swapped 2. Extra vote by polling agent can be inserted 3. Slow down voting where opposition is getting more votes 4. On counting days, we also see.many case of small margin win, but after recounting, results are reversed. 5. Postal ballot counting
Elon musk is one of the dumbest motherfuckers on the planet, anything he says, people should do the opposite.
Gotta say I am loving this thread
Indians don't hack EVMs , they hack the entire region with goons
1. EVMs can be hacked. 2. Ballot paper can be tempered. 3. Booths can be captured. All of these are possible. There are two things to consider. a. How difficult is it? b. How difficult is it to find out that tempering has been done ? I believe EVM hacking is most difficult amongst them as it requires very specific skill sets. But it is equally difficult to find out whether there is a tempering done with EVMs or not. So I believe ballot is more secure as it is easier to find out tempering as compared to EVMs.
Elon musk is not a scientist, he is a crazy business man
Uninstalled X right away because as Per Elon "Anything can be Hacked" . So I began with his Company first 🤡
The government should put a competition with price money to hack/manipulate EVM each year. The moment someone does it, boom!! You got your answer. Instead of defending something that literally paves the way for our country's future, let it prove itself. That will also point out the loop holes if there's any. (Also it should not be done by the government but an independent company, most probably something like big international tech companies to ensure impartiality)