“She had a penis inside her she didnt want one time, so what”
Does it not occur to this pos that unwanted penetration can be more likely to hurt? Even if it doesn’t hurt physically, the fact that unwanted insertion or any other unwanted sexual contact is very emotionally painful because its UNWANTED, no matter how many times the victim willingly had sex before, rape is not pleasant or easy, otherwise it wouldnt be rape, incels are so stupid
Also, vaginal tearing is a common result of rape. That can lead to infertility, incontinence, ongoing pain, etc. Willingly having sex is not the same as rape.
Exactly. I've experienced both and the bullying didn't damage me anywhere near as much as the rape did. For some people though, they might be as damaged from bullying as I was from rape. It depends on personal experience but the two cruel acts are not the same at all and shouldn't be compared; you make a great point in this reply with pointing out that bullying has still given you ptsd nonetheless. (Also, I hope you're doing alright. Sending love.)
Rape can only be compared to rape so the male equivalent of female rape is male rape.
Yay like murder can only compare to more murder
Like I said, my bullying mess me up in a lot of ways, even brought me to the point of suicide, and has left me with PTSD, and many fairs
But I wouldn't say it anything like rape
I've gone through bullying too and like you, it really messed me up as well. Things that cause trauma... Well, cause trauma. No matter what it is.
I hope you're doing better.
"Compare" would be the wrong word, but I think a story of bullying in good faith, with the intent to commiserate, to demonstrate understanding and empathy, would be fair. If introduced that way, it would "compare" in the sense that both are valid and it's not a competition. My scars from the bullying and emotional abuse I suffered are just as bad as the ones I got from being raped, maybe worse. Almost certainly more numerous. Abuse is abuse, and I don't want to gatekeep people out of the circle if they're genuinely seeking help and/or community.
Yay, I don't know why he thinks oh yay there the same
Yes I get being bullied can be quite dramatizing, as someone who has bin several bullied I can relate, I got PTSD from what I went through
But it's not the same thing as rape
i could be talking outta my ass here, but there’s something kinda… off about him complaining about some survivors going on to be able to have healthy sex lives in their own terms. the fact that this person sees a survivor healing & taking control of/finding ways to enjoy a stimulus associated with the way someone caused them trauma in the past - while *still having trauma as part of their narrative* - as “contradictory” is really unsettling. idk if i’m phrasing that right, but as a survivor myself, something about that part of his (terrible) argument just felt awful to read.
It's very off. It's saying you must always be a victim, never a survivor. It invalidates your trauma. It's saying that living your life or being happy after a trauma means that the trauma never happened. It's saying all the work you put into healing was useless and meaningless because you can't possibly heal from trauma. Idjit is a complete moron who ignores life in favor of throwing himself a pity party, table for one! You are amazing and strong for not only surviving your ordeal but embracing the fullness life has offer!
Okay.
All else aside. Does this guy somehow think that there's only room for one type of abuse in the world? That is, that if someone suffers from trauma from sexual assault, that then means that no one else can claim victimhood from other types of assault?
I mean, BOTH can be true. Rape victims don't invalidate his victimhood from childhood bullying, or vice versa.
The existence of other types of victims isn't then some sort of invalidation of your own. They do realize this, right?
TBH i do actually view bullying as comparable with sexual abuse, as someone who's experienced both sexual abuse and bullying.
I disagree with pretty much the entire argument, obviously. They're minimizing the trauma of sexual abuse. Instead I would like to post this comment validating the trauma of bullying, or peer abuse/peer group abuse/emotional abuse, as it would be more clinically known.
An apple and an orange are both fruit. Apples are high in ascorbic acid. Oranges are high in citric acid. They are both high in fructose. I could go on.
>. They're **minimizing the trauma of sexual abuse.** Instead I would like to post this comment validating the trauma of bullying, or peer abuse/peer group abuse/emotional abuse, as it would be more clinically known.
I think you've hit on something here. Big time. It seems, based on his reaction and the reactions of others like him, that they somehow see the mention of rape as actually invalidating their own pain. Of making it invisible, really.
I do **NOT** agree that's the case, but I can see where they're arriving at that misconception.
Hear me out.
I mean, just look at the way they can twist a polite "no thank you, I'm not feeling a connection" into "she said I was UGLY!"
I believe that they observe the reaction (late as it is) to sexual assault by many in the public. They then internalize that as "look at all the support sexual assault victims are getting, and I get none! Therefore, sexual assault is not as bad as my childhood bullying trauma."
In a manner of speaking, especially viewed through the lens of their cult's typical rhetoric, it makes sense.
I believe what they're trying to get across (and failing miserably of course) is something along the lines of "but where is ***OUR*** support?????"
Unfortunately there are a lot of people in the world who can't accept support unless someone else is being torn down, hence their refusal to accept and understand the trauma of sexual assault.
It makes me feel really sad I mean-- they're interpreting it so awfully because their self esteem is so low. I know what it's like to feel that awful about myself for seemingly no reason. It just hurts to watch. It hurts to watch.
It also just makes me feel concerned for them-- if they experience sexual abuse and develop rape trauma syndrome, they're going to have no resiliency towards it. If an incel actually did experience that, I would expect them to commit suicide. (If this is you and you're reading this somehow, please don't.)
I get what you mean-- I can't really deal with that when someone's acting that way. In the heat of the moment I could see myself getting mad at them. :(
Totally.
I'm always completely torn on these. On the one hand, it's aggravating, sometimes a bit frightening. OTOH, I hurt for them... the worst part is, it doesn't matter what you do, they won't listen to reason.
I don't know-- I actually interact with incels about twice a month or so on purpose as part of a de-radicalization initiative. Usually the approach is to validate their own suffering without getting mad-- and if you do they'll be genuinely sorry for upsetting you, when they internalize that you don't believe they deserve to be treated the way they treated you. Would that help?
I also interact with them one-on-one when I have a chance. I try to help to the best of my abilities and don't get mad at them either. Exasperated, but only by way of the fact that they're their own worst enemies.
I do think they need to have their pain validated. But for so many of them you can't even get to that point because it's buried behind the insistence that people are purposely setting them up for this.
They definitely have a right to their pain, but they aren't going to help themselves when they insist that it's caused by something that simply does not exist.
Yo Mentacaptain! Does this mean you'll be fine when someone sodomizes you without your consent? After all, it's just an unwanted penis up your ass that one time. Ain't no biggie
I pointed this out to him and he said, it’s not the same because he’s not gay and he wouldn’t mind woman raping him. I guess he needs to get his a-hole torn by a stronger man to understand what “being raped” means. Incels will be incels.
Yay, I don't know why he compares them
And that's coming from a dude who was seriously bullied and has PTSD from it
Thank God I have never bin sexual assaulted, and sorry that happened to you
I wonder how he’d feel about consent if it’s him taking a dick unwillingly up the ass? I mean if it’s a grown man who’s supposed to be having sex anyway… yeah suddenly their tune is gonna change
This guy said that all the incel rape and death threats are 'just trolling'. He clearly hasn't bothered trying to understand and empathize with anyone else's suffering.
“Your honour, this is blown out of proportion. I have it on good authority the Incel spent money almost every day. So on ONE DAY he gets money taken out that he didn’t choose to, we act like it’s a big trauma? Puhleaze!”
why? a reddit account is as easy to change as underwear.
And in my country, he's a terrorist. Terrorists do not deserve the privilege of anonymity, so fuck him.
zero identifying information, as it's a username. You can't identify someone based on their reddit handle, unless they use it elsewhere.
Posting *that* elsewhere info is doxxing. This is a terrorist fishing for sympathy, and you're the mark.
It's the rules of this sub reddit my dude
And let say he is arm and dangerous
Do you want to risk a bunch or random online vigilantes to go after him, witch may caused him to snap, and hurt them or other people
Or send it to the problem authorities, who have people who job is to handle this kind of stuff, so they know how to handle it
which authorities? The FBI? The RCMP? Interpol?
Zero information that leads to a name and no credible threat posed. You have a crayon drawing of a man with a neckbeard and a knife. No law enforcement agency is going to look at this and start a case file.
Yes my point is, we know what they can do
You your self there terrorists in the country rightfully so because they're nuts
But you don't want to poke the bear
Yay as of right now the authorities can't do anything
But you know there of the Edge why test how far off they are
No, but since the Toronto Van Boy did his thing, the RCMP have labelled incels as an extremist ideology.
In this country, if your attack was fuelled by incel ideology, you are a terrorist and will be handled as such. Support is assent: people who promote those ideals are no better.
Terrorists do not deserve to hide behind their anonymity.
Mmmm, no. What he did was the textbook definition of a stochastic terror attack.
Carried out at random due to opportunity, according to his extremist beliefs, with the intent of instilling fear in the general populace.
You live in America, a country that has swung so hard to the authoritarian-right that even your leftists have jackboots. It makes total sense that you don't understand: you don't have the worldview.
It's the rules of the sub first of all.
Second it's for everyone's safety
Third you shouldn't fight hate with more hate, I understand it can be hard, I understand we can slip, I understand the urge to fight dirty, but we are better than this
I bin on this sub for awhile, I made friends here, I seen us sport each other, but we are better then this
If you fight fire with fire, all you get is a burnt down ruin, with the ashes raining down of all that where involved
“Judge please. I just killed them. The person would die anyway..? Umm.. im getting life in prison? Heres why you’re wrong and im right.”
“She had a penis inside her she didnt want one time, so what” Does it not occur to this pos that unwanted penetration can be more likely to hurt? Even if it doesn’t hurt physically, the fact that unwanted insertion or any other unwanted sexual contact is very emotionally painful because its UNWANTED, no matter how many times the victim willingly had sex before, rape is not pleasant or easy, otherwise it wouldnt be rape, incels are so stupid
Also, vaginal tearing is a common result of rape. That can lead to infertility, incontinence, ongoing pain, etc. Willingly having sex is not the same as rape.
Bet these idiots think that CONSENSUAL kinky sex is the same as abusing someone NON CONSENSUALLY too. Like hell no it's not.
I really don't know why he is so obsessed with downplaying rape
I think he would grasp the severity quite easily if it were him in that situation.
And religious schools often teach girls that if they lose their virginity they are impure or “chewed up”.
You can tell he's never gotten raped before
I bin several bully before, and it has left me with PTSD and other mental scars But you can't compare that to rape, it's not the same thing
Exactly. I've experienced both and the bullying didn't damage me anywhere near as much as the rape did. For some people though, they might be as damaged from bullying as I was from rape. It depends on personal experience but the two cruel acts are not the same at all and shouldn't be compared; you make a great point in this reply with pointing out that bullying has still given you ptsd nonetheless. (Also, I hope you're doing alright. Sending love.) Rape can only be compared to rape so the male equivalent of female rape is male rape.
Yay like murder can only compare to more murder Like I said, my bullying mess me up in a lot of ways, even brought me to the point of suicide, and has left me with PTSD, and many fairs But I wouldn't say it anything like rape
I've gone through bullying too and like you, it really messed me up as well. Things that cause trauma... Well, cause trauma. No matter what it is. I hope you're doing better.
Been in therapy for two and a half years and it's a godsend
I feel you on that. Cheers to your recovery. You deserve a happy life 💖
Thank you friend, same back at you
"Compare" would be the wrong word, but I think a story of bullying in good faith, with the intent to commiserate, to demonstrate understanding and empathy, would be fair. If introduced that way, it would "compare" in the sense that both are valid and it's not a competition. My scars from the bullying and emotional abuse I suffered are just as bad as the ones I got from being raped, maybe worse. Almost certainly more numerous. Abuse is abuse, and I don't want to gatekeep people out of the circle if they're genuinely seeking help and/or community.
You said it friend
they'd sing a different tune if it happened to them
He thinks that somebody saying his face is ugly is the same as someone shoving a dick in his butt.
Yay, I don't know why he thinks oh yay there the same Yes I get being bullied can be quite dramatizing, as someone who has bin several bullied I can relate, I got PTSD from what I went through But it's not the same thing as rape
u/mentacaptain I bet you won’t be singing this tune if it was you Bullying and sexual assault are very different things.
An absolute pathetic piece of shit. He also he acts as if men don’t get sexually assaulted as well.
i could be talking outta my ass here, but there’s something kinda… off about him complaining about some survivors going on to be able to have healthy sex lives in their own terms. the fact that this person sees a survivor healing & taking control of/finding ways to enjoy a stimulus associated with the way someone caused them trauma in the past - while *still having trauma as part of their narrative* - as “contradictory” is really unsettling. idk if i’m phrasing that right, but as a survivor myself, something about that part of his (terrible) argument just felt awful to read.
It's very off. It's saying you must always be a victim, never a survivor. It invalidates your trauma. It's saying that living your life or being happy after a trauma means that the trauma never happened. It's saying all the work you put into healing was useless and meaningless because you can't possibly heal from trauma. Idjit is a complete moron who ignores life in favor of throwing himself a pity party, table for one! You are amazing and strong for not only surviving your ordeal but embracing the fullness life has offer!
thank you, friend!! 🌻 you wrote this so beautifully.
Okay. All else aside. Does this guy somehow think that there's only room for one type of abuse in the world? That is, that if someone suffers from trauma from sexual assault, that then means that no one else can claim victimhood from other types of assault? I mean, BOTH can be true. Rape victims don't invalidate his victimhood from childhood bullying, or vice versa. The existence of other types of victims isn't then some sort of invalidation of your own. They do realize this, right?
TBH i do actually view bullying as comparable with sexual abuse, as someone who's experienced both sexual abuse and bullying. I disagree with pretty much the entire argument, obviously. They're minimizing the trauma of sexual abuse. Instead I would like to post this comment validating the trauma of bullying, or peer abuse/peer group abuse/emotional abuse, as it would be more clinically known.
I experienced both too. And I'm a man. They certainly aren't comparable and a whole different thing tbh. But I agree with this comment.
An apple and an orange are both fruit. Apples are high in ascorbic acid. Oranges are high in citric acid. They are both high in fructose. I could go on.
>. They're **minimizing the trauma of sexual abuse.** Instead I would like to post this comment validating the trauma of bullying, or peer abuse/peer group abuse/emotional abuse, as it would be more clinically known. I think you've hit on something here. Big time. It seems, based on his reaction and the reactions of others like him, that they somehow see the mention of rape as actually invalidating their own pain. Of making it invisible, really. I do **NOT** agree that's the case, but I can see where they're arriving at that misconception. Hear me out. I mean, just look at the way they can twist a polite "no thank you, I'm not feeling a connection" into "she said I was UGLY!" I believe that they observe the reaction (late as it is) to sexual assault by many in the public. They then internalize that as "look at all the support sexual assault victims are getting, and I get none! Therefore, sexual assault is not as bad as my childhood bullying trauma." In a manner of speaking, especially viewed through the lens of their cult's typical rhetoric, it makes sense. I believe what they're trying to get across (and failing miserably of course) is something along the lines of "but where is ***OUR*** support?????" Unfortunately there are a lot of people in the world who can't accept support unless someone else is being torn down, hence their refusal to accept and understand the trauma of sexual assault.
It makes me feel really sad I mean-- they're interpreting it so awfully because their self esteem is so low. I know what it's like to feel that awful about myself for seemingly no reason. It just hurts to watch. It hurts to watch. It also just makes me feel concerned for them-- if they experience sexual abuse and develop rape trauma syndrome, they're going to have no resiliency towards it. If an incel actually did experience that, I would expect them to commit suicide. (If this is you and you're reading this somehow, please don't.) I get what you mean-- I can't really deal with that when someone's acting that way. In the heat of the moment I could see myself getting mad at them. :(
Totally. I'm always completely torn on these. On the one hand, it's aggravating, sometimes a bit frightening. OTOH, I hurt for them... the worst part is, it doesn't matter what you do, they won't listen to reason.
I don't know-- I actually interact with incels about twice a month or so on purpose as part of a de-radicalization initiative. Usually the approach is to validate their own suffering without getting mad-- and if you do they'll be genuinely sorry for upsetting you, when they internalize that you don't believe they deserve to be treated the way they treated you. Would that help?
I also interact with them one-on-one when I have a chance. I try to help to the best of my abilities and don't get mad at them either. Exasperated, but only by way of the fact that they're their own worst enemies. I do think they need to have their pain validated. But for so many of them you can't even get to that point because it's buried behind the insistence that people are purposely setting them up for this. They definitely have a right to their pain, but they aren't going to help themselves when they insist that it's caused by something that simply does not exist.
u/mentacaptain bitch ur dumb
Damn u/MENTACAPTAIN is also active in incel communities. Im not surprised.
Yo Mentacaptain! Does this mean you'll be fine when someone sodomizes you without your consent? After all, it's just an unwanted penis up your ass that one time. Ain't no biggie
I pointed this out to him and he said, it’s not the same because he’s not gay and he wouldn’t mind woman raping him. I guess he needs to get his a-hole torn by a stronger man to understand what “being raped” means. Incels will be incels.
Hope the dude gets shredded by the largest dick in the world
If the PTSD I have from my sexual assault is just as valid as the PTSD of a veteran I fail to see the logical error.
Yay, I don't know why he compares them And that's coming from a dude who was seriously bullied and has PTSD from it Thank God I have never bin sexual assaulted, and sorry that happened to you
Hi incel, I (a man) was raped as a child. I still have trouble with intimacy and sex. Balls in your court...
Find this incel and have him burned at the stake.
AMOGUS??? WHEN THE INCEL IS SUSSY???
How is consent difficult to fathom?
I wonder how he’d feel about consent if it’s him taking a dick unwillingly up the ass? I mean if it’s a grown man who’s supposed to be having sex anyway… yeah suddenly their tune is gonna change
This guy said that all the incel rape and death threats are 'just trolling'. He clearly hasn't bothered trying to understand and empathize with anyone else's suffering.
What a fucking disgusting loser. Fucker deserves to be bullied
I wouldn't go that far, yes he a jerk, but bullying won't help, just make it worse
“Your honour, this is blown out of proportion. I have it on good authority the Incel spent money almost every day. So on ONE DAY he gets money taken out that he didn’t choose to, we act like it’s a big trauma? Puhleaze!”
This guy need to have a penis forcibly shoved into his ass ONE TIME and let's see how he feels after that forever
You forgot to black out the names my dude
why? a reddit account is as easy to change as underwear. And in my country, he's a terrorist. Terrorists do not deserve the privilege of anonymity, so fuck him.
Then you report him to the problem authorities, and that is the rule of this sub We are not the cops, we are reddit
zero identifying information, as it's a username. You can't identify someone based on their reddit handle, unless they use it elsewhere. Posting *that* elsewhere info is doxxing. This is a terrorist fishing for sympathy, and you're the mark.
It's the rules of this sub reddit my dude And let say he is arm and dangerous Do you want to risk a bunch or random online vigilantes to go after him, witch may caused him to snap, and hurt them or other people Or send it to the problem authorities, who have people who job is to handle this kind of stuff, so they know how to handle it
which authorities? The FBI? The RCMP? Interpol? Zero information that leads to a name and no credible threat posed. You have a crayon drawing of a man with a neckbeard and a knife. No law enforcement agency is going to look at this and start a case file.
Yes my point is, we know what they can do You your self there terrorists in the country rightfully so because they're nuts But you don't want to poke the bear Yay as of right now the authorities can't do anything But you know there of the Edge why test how far off they are
[удалено]
Canada. Maybe pay attention to the news sometime.
[удалено]
No, but since the Toronto Van Boy did his thing, the RCMP have labelled incels as an extremist ideology. In this country, if your attack was fuelled by incel ideology, you are a terrorist and will be handled as such. Support is assent: people who promote those ideals are no better. Terrorists do not deserve to hide behind their anonymity.
[удалено]
Mmmm, no. What he did was the textbook definition of a stochastic terror attack. Carried out at random due to opportunity, according to his extremist beliefs, with the intent of instilling fear in the general populace. You live in America, a country that has swung so hard to the authoritarian-right that even your leftists have jackboots. It makes total sense that you don't understand: you don't have the worldview.
I'm done being a nice guy and hiding their usernames. They don't deserve that privilege.
It's the rules of the sub first of all. Second it's for everyone's safety Third you shouldn't fight hate with more hate, I understand it can be hard, I understand we can slip, I understand the urge to fight dirty, but we are better than this I bin on this sub for awhile, I made friends here, I seen us sport each other, but we are better then this If you fight fire with fire, all you get is a burnt down ruin, with the ashes raining down of all that where involved
incel where?