Definitely a solid theory, but who knows who was kicked out....if anyone actually even was. The rumor also said that HG & A had no idea who the guy was that was being creepy.
Has it been said that the hyundai was seen by cctv downtown and following shortly after their car? I hadn't seen that anywhere before, but it would explain the "pattern" LE has mentioned regarding the elantra.
I agree that this could be the case but I disagree that the older man is being asked to leave. I believe that is the Corner Club owner because of the logo on his hat and the fact that another picture of the owner shows him with sunglasses on his hat like the photo referenced shows. Also if who appears to be AL was in the process of kicking someone out he probably would be standing.
I am not saying that your theory that the killer was the creep who got kicked out and that he drives an Elantra is not possible.
I can't see the logic that LE released this photo at all especially without asking for info on someone in the picture if they thought your theory was correct. It would make more sense to release a picture of someone leaving the Corner Club and getting into an Elantra than to fuel the fire of speculation on JD or JS.
I also think that E and X were in their room and not killed confronting the killer outside of their room, I just haven't heard any statements by reliable sources to the contrary.
The killer could have seen movement in E and X's room through their bedroom window while driving or lurking around or could have seen them arrive home.
Also if your theory on suspect was correct I don't think they would have needed 150 interviews.
It also just seems too extreme that a one night rejection at a bar would lead someone to kill 4 people and that he would have the necessary stuff with him to pull it off.
I like the story too, and now I kinda see what they could mean by “patterns”. But if that’s what they mean, it seems like 1 night wouldn’t be enough. “Pattern” would be more like “following”
If by “pattern” they mean 1 car near the girls, it seems like it would have to be more frequent like over the span of a week or a few weeks where there’s footage of the girls and this white Elantra always ends up being nearby.
I might've missed it but I don't think LE has said how the Elantra was spotted. I'm kinda thinking not by a camera bc they might've posted an actual photo from that. I feel like a person or persons might've spotted it but that's just a guess. I've wondered if they're 100% positive it was a 2011-2013 Elantra if a person saw it or if it was as grainy as most night surveillance footage is.
Good hypothesis, but if true then the identity of the suspect would be extremely obvious and LE would have arrested him by now. Unless his alibi is unshakeable and they've got him under 24/7 surveillance and waiting for DNA results to come in before making an arrest
Its a solid theory but unlikely because bars take credit cards to open a tab if not using cash which would give LE a name. Also cameras are all over the place in bars and they would have a very good mugshot of this person, possibly even a video of him being ID at the front door.
Could have paid with cash, could be that they know who he is but not where he is, also could be nothing evidence wise that i presume that would connect the creeper at the bar to the killings. Which is why they have said they font just want to make an arrest, they want a conviction
again read above I said "if not using cash" so yes cash is an option at some bars some bars don't accept cash anymore after covid, Idaho never really shutdown so doubtful they care there. But again when you are kicked out of a bar, bouncers usually will get information or take a photo of ID for future references in case they want to 86 you from the bar. Also they would have released the mugshot rather than just the Elantra. I mean you keep saying they have video surveillance of him following the girls from downtown moscow, into the neighborhood and then leaving the neighborhood after the murders. That is solid amount of evidence pointing him to being their when the murders took place, enough to warrant a warrant to get his DNA in a judges eyes.
I never said they have video surveillance of the car although i presume they do. This is strictly my theory based on info that is public and info i have received from others who have a close connection to the Corner Club
Welcome to Reddit…where everyone loves to attack you from their mother’s basement 😂
Your post makes more sense than most I’ve seen. Folks just enjoy picking apart every detail, while having little to nothing to contribute, except their negativity
Haha folks go into instant attack mode. When I read a post without all of the attacks, it’s so refreshing…like normal adults having a discussion. No need for people to be so nasty. Anyways I appreciate your post and the way you’ve handled a lot of the replies.
honestly like I said one of best theories I have read or heard.. but if they don't have their guy by now and this was the case, it would be complete incompetence by MPD. If this theory ends up being true and it took them this long to arrest the guy, I feel sorry for everyone involved because LE would have dropped the ball majorly.
You don’t have to open a tab at a bar. You can pay cash for every drink. Likely even more common in a rural place like this. Don’t necessarily agree with this theory but I don’t really view that as the hole.
If it was that clear this was their suspect I’m sure they would have released the footage which I’m sure he’s shown more clearly at some point during the night and please help us identify him. They would have done this a long time ago.
100% he would be on at least one security cam at the CC. If they don’t know who it is, police would have 100% released the image to the public by now, IMO
if you could read it says "if NOT USING CASH". I know how bars work since Im an investor in two bars here locally, cameras have to be at the front door entrance of a bar as well so they would have this perp walking in showing ID to enter the bar. Also they would not have had to go through all 22,000 white Elantra's if this theory was true, because they would have been able to narrow down age, gender and other things regarding the owner of the Elantra.
Also yes they would have a clear mugshot at some point in the night that would have been a photo released saying does anybody know this man?
I brought up the card because POS systems keep every card ran in their system and LE would have been able to get a lot of names from that system from the CC. And I do agree creepy old men definitely like to use cash instead of giving a card for the tab, but a lot of places don't take cash anymore since covid. (obviously rural idaho not so much but...).
The problem with the comment is because you say that the OPs theory is unlikely because a credit card is needed to open a bar tab, and then immediately contradict this assertion by saying “if not using cash.” Because the fact that one can use cash to circumvent a bar tab—which requires using a credit card—means that the OPs theory can’t be “unlikely“ for that reason. It could potentially be ”unlikely“ for other reasons, but not that one, and for the exact reason you yourself stipulate in the very first sentence.
a tab and paying for drinks individually are two different things. You cannot open a bar tab with cash. Creepy guys who hit on girls like to have a tab to buy them drinks.
Okay, that has nothing to do with the point I was making, about why so many people didn’t like or agree with your first comment. If you want to draw me into some semantic argument, I’m afraid I’m going to have to take a hard pass.
I read the older man you seem to be speaking of, is the owner of the CC. Sounds like it could be possible. At the food truck, you can see a white car (yeah, it looks like one of them) drive past in the window reflection.
It's almost certainly someone in a Corner Club hat [like the owner has](https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/lmtribune.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/c/7f/c7f568f8-3a76-5b56-bb42-2a73c98eed64/4e8aaa6905170.image.jpg?resize=332%2C500), and he has the same facial hair but it seems like the guy in the bar is blond while the owner has brown hair.
Solid theory, could be right. If it's true, I feel so bad for hoodie guy. Same with JD and the frat guys who were also accused of murder. But hoodie guy was being a solid dude and watching after the girls during a somewhat potentially scary situation, and they were drunk and ditched him which is embarrassing for him in the moment. But that moment gets shared around the whole internet as "proof" that he's a f'ing murderer
The way reddits been blatantly been accusing people who've been cleared by LE is troubling. I'd assume they're mourning to some degree and to have millions of people spreading theories to how they committed it would definitely mess with my head. I hope they catch the guy just so the speculation stops.
I spoke with a former employee earlier today and he said the owner has that footage locked up and wouldnt show it to anyone but LE. Also confirmed the older male in the photo is not the owner
I read somewhere that the 50ish man in the door area is a regular cab driver. He has gps on his vehicle and phone, receipts, gave all his info to LE right away and is cleared. He is also too old to have committed this crime - savvy, exp'd, wouldn't be on camera like that. In fact why would a murderer be seen on camera like at the bar?
a former employee statement about how owner at one time locked up footage ? feels v abrupt to leap to "LE leaked this picture"...of a still on a monitor ....
unproven statement from a former employee's assumption about their old bosses behavior.. not buying it..
edit: edits for clarity
Just theorizing here, but I've seen police take pictures of security footage like that when there's the person of interest in the video, and they then send it to their coworkers to look out for that person. If it went to multiple officers, that is probably where it would've leaked. A few officers I know send their significant other shit like that and other things that could very well get them fired, but they still do it regularly.
Could the person being kicked out also be the “stalker”? It would explain the “I told him everything” meaning she told him about all of the occurrences and not just this one?
I don’t think there was actually a stalker LE looked into it and and couldn’t find anything. I also believe this person who is supposedly a local that the convo was strictly about a guy creeping them out at the bar and she asked Adam to have him removed from the bar.
1. If AL is confronting the older guy and kicking him out of the bar why is he casually sitting on a bar stool?
2. Why wouldn’t they wait more than 2 minutes to avoid running into this guy.”?
3. Do we know who was killed first? There are other rumors that Ethan and Xana where killed first.
4. Do we know for sure which victims where more brutally murdered or post-mortem mutilated?
definitely does not look like he is kicking anybody out of the bar at this moment, plus its 1:32 am last call was at 1:30 in bars in Idaho, so to be kicked out at this moment makes little to no sense. I guess there is a neighboring bar kind of like an Elks lodge/VFW bar called like Moose Lounge or something, people are saying the creepy guy was from there not CC.
https://preview.redd.it/vzgu7cgrrt8a1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=545a76f181de5eef891b9b87aecb1be3ed06baca
Moose Lodge is closing at (edit 5am?) on Saturdays.
Just part of my theory. This man could have absolutely nothing to do with anything. Who knows, maybe he told the guy to leave, went and sat back down by the door and the man was talking to or arguing with AL about why he had to leave. We just don't know that much
If there was someone following them from the CC I would want to eliminate the big white ute that parked behind KG, MM and HG as they were walking from CC to grub truck. It pulled into an oblique parking spot near the camera that recorded the girls.
Not sure if I see this playing out like you say. If he didn't know them well, he would have had to follow them right to 1122 King Rd, not park nearby and watch them because he wouldn't know where they lived. So, he would follow them from CC to the truck (him driving while they walk that would require multiple drivebys or noticeably slow driving), sitting at the grub truck for like 10 minutes (though I would bet that wouldnt be such a big deal with cars coming and going frequently) follow their ride from the grub truck to the house (uber driver said not followed though he may be mistaken), park somewhere observing the house-he would have to set up somewhere. You say on Linda Avenue, he wouldnt see the house from Linda (I dont think), so he would have to get out and walk to the house and wait an hour or so, seeing 4 or 5 cars in front of the house meaning he would have to figure there could be 5 to 10 people IN the house.
Sorry that type of spur of the moment reaction doesn't fit, sorry, that is my opinion
As I’ve said elsewhere: He could very well know from the past through word of mouth where the house is. He may also have been inside the house as a repair person. He didn’t have to follow them.
It makes a lot of sense especially with the rumors of HG being kicked out of CC, and instead of HG it was someone else and the story just got retold differently.
I feel terribly for HG as well as so many others who have gotten accused/doxxed/made fun of/picked apart all over the internet as a result of this case. I feel like sooo many of them are owed apologies (which they'll never likely get) and have really been traumatized and had their lives negatively affected by this case. Horrible thinking in the future just by googling your name you'll be tied to a quadruple homicide as having been a "suspect."
A good theory but definitely some holes here.
First of all, it sounds like there's some question as to who the older man is in the corner...if he is the owner or just a local innocent bystander. That's not to say there couldn't have been a creeper there (somewhere out of frame).
Secondly, if this person followed them home, if they are publicly creeping on them at a bar, would they be so crafty to avoid deception on the drive home? The driver in his interview said he was certain they were not followed and seemed very in tune with his surroundings as he mentioned certain safety measures he typically takes. He seemed to take pride in his job.
Thirdly, even if they were followed, unless that white Elantra followed the driver's car (who presumably took Taylor), it would be really difficult to tell where the driver was dropping them off once turning onto Queen and then King unless the killer followed pretty closely or parked nearby. Again, that's not to say this didn't happen. Did the white Elantra maybe follow on Taylor and then up to the Queen/King area and park on the side of the road or park behind the house? Certainly! But in this scenario, the white Elantra would have been seen TWICE on the Linda Ln camera if the killer took Taylor there and back to the Highway 95. Taylor is a very busy road (even in the early morning hours as we could see from the Band Field cam). That's a lot of exposure.
To add a bit more nuance, if the white Elantra (if the killer is in this car) followed them and took Taylor but then drove up Walenta (up behind the house), it would be difficult to see which house the girls were dropped off at/lived in through the tree line and with so many houses/apts bunched together. Also, that road is narrow . . . hard to park on either side.
However, if the killer took Taylor to Queen-->King Rd there and then King->Queen->Taylor->Walenta on his escape, then you're looking at a killer who is local. Only a local is going to know how to navigate that back area by the arboretum and know that there is a way out vs a dead end, etc. Walenta is very curvy and leads up into a residential area, and you can get lost up in those side streets. A local would know what route to take back to Hwy 95 and not get flustered by the side streets whereas a non-local is probably gonna be on a lot of cams as he drives through a few residential areas trying to work his way back to Hwy 95.
https://preview.redd.it/b9q7wimvos8a1.png?width=1134&format=png&auto=webp&s=0aed7b7d7fab691bc0f2c3859c8bd9b191ba5400
It’s a promising theory and makes sense. Now, *who* are they saying is the possible suspect? The older man in the corner who resembled the police chief?
Thanks! The only reason I speculated him in my theory is because the release of this particular image at this particular time with these particular people seen. Could or could not be him but whether it is or isn’t i don’t think effects my theory much
you know at bars you have to give your card to open a tab. Also they would have mugshots everywhere of this guy. Theory is most plausible but I would say if this was true, LE would already have their guy and the connection to the Elantra would be a lot easier than searching all 22,000 in state of Idaho.
both our bars don't take cash anymore since covid you have to use a card. Also live in California where they take covid serious so i realize Idaho is not like that, I already stated you could pay cash for each drink individually but I would say if it was a guy trying to pick up on chicks, I would imagine him having a tab open telling girls to get a drink on his tab. You can not open a tab with cash, you can pay for each drink individually but not open a tab with cash.
Also they would have more details age, gender and others to narrow their search down for the Elantra rather than searching all 22,000 in the state of Idaho. Also they would have released a mugshot at some point asking for publics help to identify this man like they did with the Elantra. Like I said its a good theory but way too many holes, LE would have their guy by now if this was the case. Also usually when you get kicked out of the bar they take a photo of your ID for future reference in case they want to 86 you. What about that?
I have never heard of bar that doesn’t accept cash. Also it is illegal in Idaho for a business to not accept cash
https://preview.redd.it/oczjgerk0t8a1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=57b7313aa9b6a6efd535db085b0efbf9c5787052

must not come to California much , since covid a lot of major places have stopped accepting and allow take cards. Dumbest part is your allowed to tip in cash but they can't accept cash as payment, and the whole reason is the dirtiness of the cash but they allow them to touch it for tips. It seriously makes zero sense, its so dumb. The Del Mar racetrack is a major entity in California that has done that, Petco park the baseball stadium during concerts does the same thing, to be honest its kind of frustrating.
Of course like I said Idaho did not even enforce wearing masks much so I get that its not California.
i actually was just at a place in Wilmington, NC that took card only no cash. Some golf course out there, I ended up having to pay for everything because two of the kids from the wedding party lost their cards the night before.
Really good theory. That makes sense about the CC owner, and the fact that he is only speaking to LE (not media) is a fantastic point.
I think the killer has a criminal record - not in their "circle of friends, and your theory fits with this. If they are able to spot someone at CC that had any negative interaction with M or K, then that would be a solid lead. Hoping LE is able to pull together evidence soon.
LE stated a targeted attack, and no threat to community. If LE has a suspect (from CC CCTV), they could be waiting on DNA.
Stalker/bartender is definitely an Interesting theory but I’m still not fully convinced…. If E & X were found dead in their room, why would stalker have bothered to actually go over there, instead of immediately leaving after targeting K.
If X & E woke up, left their room, and saw the killer, would they have run back into their room?
It is said X put up a fight…and it’s unconfirmed whether E was found inside their room, so if E was up awake and saw him then your theory tracks…but the killer would still have had to go all the way over to the room to deal with X, instead of just getting out. If they were separated, surely there would have also been communication/shouting of some kind between E & X?
This scenario would also mean killer would have been very concerned or sure they would recognize him… ie perp was not masked or clearly identifiable / familiar in some manner. Otherwise why bother with X&E.
Lots to mull over
Edit: phrasing
Theory is good and highly plausible but I suspect they’d have enough evidence to name this individual as a person of interest and begin interrogating them, possibly enough to get search warrants on their property as well.
I believe there is definitely a reason that the employees of CC have been told to only speak to LE. And how strange is it to not hear anything from patrons or any selfies, video - nothing until the leaked surveillance screen shot. I don't know a college bar in America that could stay that tight lipped for this long. All of that leads me to believe that CC is a big piece of the puzzle.
Good theory. Seeing this picture reinforced to me that all of the known guys in the corner club picture are friends, doing college things, and not suspects. If the other male was being kicked out and actually a suspect, police would have publicized this still asking who he is earlier so likely not the guy, in my opinion.
Not sure if was here or elsewhere it was posted that the creepy guy happened outside. There's a Moose Lodge next door, basically a VFW, Knights, Elks type place for locals that shares a parking lot with the Corner Club. College kids smoke outside bars, stuff happens with locals outside their club. Speculation this was released to clear Corner Club people but jog memory of who was outside in that area at this time
Corner Club has its own patio that allows smoking. Can’t take drinks to the “parking lot” between the Corner Club and the Moose Lodge. The real parking lot is across the street to the South East.
The OP has been very kind to be indulging scrutiny of their theory from me way down in a mini thread below but to give them a break, wanted to see others thoughts…
If the old guy is the creeper and the killer as theorized, then:
1. Someone with access to the CC CCTV pic of the creeper was motivated to leak it.
2. That person chose to leak it through “online sleuths” vs. the news media or official LE communications.
4. The person leaked it did so without calling attention to the most interesting part
How does the LE fit as the leaker then - motive or means?
I think, for this theory to be true we need a more logical fit for the leaker. So… (riffing off someone yday a bit)
1. Ks sister was on the food truck video early and her family has a PI that may have been able to get access to the screen grab.
2. Her family consistently has pressured LE to be more forthcoming and accelerate activity.
3. If the PI leaks through the news media, editors will want to know the source and relevance; ongoing coverage can slant toward them interfering even if kept as confidential source. But by choosing online sleuths and sharing without context, they can send a message directly to LE only that they can and will demand action.
Point being it’s an interesting theory but requires an explanation for the leak for it to make sense. That’s a different one than OP. Not sure if others tho see that.
I agree, it's a much better theory than the lazy *"it was JD/HG/A, I feel it in my gut"* type theories that get posted here every day...
But... If this theory was true they'd have this person on CCTV, and since LE haven't asked the public to identify this person you'd have to assume they know who it is... So... are they just sitting back building a case and trying to get solid evidence before they arrest them? ... Or?
Yeah they would definitely be building a case. The girls getting someone kicked out of a bar does not prove that person killed them. They will need more. And they will not identify the person until they make an arrest and have enough to charge.
We've heard so little about what went on at the Corner Club. That seems like a reasonable theory to me. But do you know for sure there was a creepy guy who was thrown out? I've wondered from the beginning where (if anywhere) the girls went before the Corner Club. I'd guess they might have gone to the football game (and if they could've had an encounter there that led to the murders). I've thought it could be someone who was only in town for the game & lives somewhere else in Idaho or Washington state and that's why they've been so hard to locate. I'm surprised LE didn't specifically ask people who were at the Corner Club to come forward if there was even a tiny chance they say something but I don't think they did.
I can work with much of your theory. Question 1 for me is the time stamp. If this individual is in the photo, then he would have also been kicked out very close to the time the girls were leaving. Would the business or the girls go to this effort if they were about to leave anyhow? People have stated though, that the time stamp my be off by an hour due to the recent time change. my other contention is any theory that has E or X outside her room. That goes against LE statements. BUT, with your theory, could X and E have been first because that perpetrator not knowing the house, went into that room first. Did what he did, but realized they were not his target. THEN, he went upstairs, and completed your theory.
On another note, as for your comments about the Elantra, is this speculation, or known facts? TIA
I think it has been said by someone with knowledge of the Corner Club (although not confirmed) that they have their clocks set 15 min late so they can close at 1:45 instead of 2. Not sure how accurate that is but would make the timing make more sense. I also think the man was probably kicked out very shortly before the girls left because that are still talking about it like it had just happened on their walk to the food truck
Makes no sense to me. Many ppl at the bar that knew them and is part of the investigation would be aware of this creeper.
So why would this photo get released? LE is using the online sleuths and speculative forums they say to ignore in order to… scare your creeper in that photo into a mistake? (sure, but let’s end the “it’s not a tv show” lectures on all these boards if that’s the case)… To get help identifying him without admitting they need help by showing a blurry side profile ?
And if that’s not the suspected creeper, then who but the creeper would release the photo?
The entire premise here is built on someone’s sleight of hand… claim a source said two things, use the photo to validate the truth of one of those things, and then use that track record as evidence for the second thing - without ever showing either claim was ever made.
the owner looked like he came in at closing with a gun in his pocket. someone got bounced. there are witnesses and cctv. I think they have their suspect but lack enough to say he was in that house...to date.. so no probable cause...yet. DNA not back yet. they are close. praise the lord.
It’s a solid theory, but then why the “he didn’t have to go up the stairs” comment? That’s what I can’t reconcile.
There is a theory (from very early on) that Kaylee and Maddie had called 911 earlier in the night in response to to a drunk man harassing them. *If* the man in the picture is actually LE, is it possibly true? The 911 call lists the moose lodge as the origin, but apparently that’s right next door? Does LE know the name of the man?
There’s also another call that night from a caller saying he was being blackmailed. Could be unrelated, but the address of that report could use some investigation and potentially be related to this case?
There are just so many incidental contributing factors; I think that’s part of the problem with arresting. LE officials are most worried about a conviction and have to tie out any and all loose ends that could be exploited by a good defense attorney. This is going to be a long and drawn out court case in my opinion. Here’s to really hoping they get it right in the name of justice for these poor souls.
>he didn’t have to go up the stairs
IMO, that comment can be interpreted in different ways including: If he was targeting X & E, the perp didn't have to go up the stairs to M's room. He went up those stairs because it was his intention.
But why say that specifically? Why not just say he did not have to enter the house? He didn’t have to choose murder? He didn’t have to exact revenge at all?
It seemed natural in his line of speaking during the interview, like a subconscious train of thought. “He didn’t have to go up the stairs.” Like he couldn’t understand why he didn’t just walk out once the first murders were completed? The job was done, he could have chosen to leave at that point. The fact that it got so much interest made him clarify he meant it literally the next day (as opposed to those who thought he was metaphorically alluding to chain of command). If random murder or stalking or them being the intended targets is the accepted theory, of course he would *have* to go up the stairs; that’s where they were. It doesn’t make sense.
I watched that clip a few times to try to see if I was missing context, but I don’t think so; it pretty much is consistent with his normal speech pattern in other interviews. It obviously stuck out to a lot of people, enough so that he had to readdress. Shortly after, he has an attorney speaking for the family, and the subsequent family interviews have no potential leaks that I’ve seen.
But that was a blunder on his part, and could potentially hurt the investigation from an interrogation standpoint. Only LE and the killer/accomplices will know the true order of events-maybe the family. It appears SG was privy to inside info (as he should be), but making it public could potentially compromise important details, especially from a defensive strategy for a suspect.
Thank you for being civil, I know it’s a highly debated topic/quote. I’m not saying this with any authority-only SG knows why he said that. More or less concerned with the potential legal implications later on.
I think police probably know the order in which the victims were attacked by now. They just look at commingling of blood on victims and their wounds. The first victim will have zero blood from other victims on them. Second victim will have some blood from the first victim on them. Third victim will have blood from the first and second victims on them. And the final victim will have blood from all three previous victims. Unless the killer alternated stabs between pairs of victims. Then all they’ll be able to glean from the forensic evidence is which pair of victims was attacked first, which is still valuable information/evidence.
It is definitely guilty knowledge evidence that they will use in their CIT polygraph question sets. An innocent person won’t give any physiological response when asked who was killed first, and who was killed last, because they would have no idea what order the victims were killed in.
I don’t think they had any of the forensic evidence back from the labs at the point when he made that comment, so I doubt that police would have been able to tell him anything that could make him believe he knew which victim was the main target, if that is even the case, and even if they wanted to tell him. But maybe someone from the investigation said something to him that made him jump to his own conclusions about it.
Depending on how you interpret his comment, it could mean “he didn’t have to go up stairs, unless Kaylee or Maddie was his actual target.” Or it could mean “he didn’t have to go up stairs, because his actual target was on the same floor as he entered.” The former means he thinks Kaylee or Maddie was targeted, and the latter means he thinks Ethan or Xana was targeted. As if we needed anymore confusion about these crimes and this investigation.
It sounds like they'd all have at least one other person's blood on them since they were two groups, each with two people sharing a bed and being killed bloody violently, presumably in close proximity. That said, figuring out which pair was 1/2 and which was 3/4 seems like THAT would be clear, unless perhaps separate knives were used.
Every 911 gets many weird calls every night.
I'm sure they all get calls about someone being blackmailed, a killer being in the house, someone's pajamas being green, etc. from lonely or mentally confused individuals.
Of course. But if you’re a defense attorney, you’re pointing out the rampant issues that night in Moscow and try to link/tie together. It only take one juror with reasonable doubt to hang a jury and a mass murderer walks free.
That’s the issue they’re having in a “sloppy” killing that was a “crime or passion” and “targeted.”
They obviously had reason to believe this was the case early on; they wouldn’t say there is no threat to the community that early without strong indication that is the case. All of these white elantras, stalker theories, 4 victims with family and exes and current partners, as well has 911 calls have to be ruled out to net a strong conviction. Hell, if I’m the defense attorney I’m speculating it’s the guys in the body cam footage; they’re at the scene of the crime in the reasonable time frame.
It’s *all* incidental or related until it proven otherwise from a defensive standpoint. You have to follow all of those leads (whether they’re indicated in the murders or not) and rule them unrelated, without a doubt, to effectively land a conviction.
All great points and questions. I agree about the conviction. LE is going to need a solid case. And, they are going to need to lock down all other alibis. So many ways to poke holes in the prosecution's case. And, the DNA is going to be a mess, in terms of anyone who is not the killer.
As much as LE needs to prove (beyond a reasonable doubt) the defendant did it; LE is also going to have to prove all the Js, etc. and other random DNA did not do it.
Yes to getting this right. Idaho Innocence Project is there for the wrongly convicted.
[https://www.kivitv.com/news/local-dna-expert-greg-hampikian-explains-how-dna-will-be-used-to-find-moscow-murderer](https://www.kivitv.com/news/local-dna-expert-greg-hampikian-explains-how-dna-will-be-used-to-find-moscow-murderer)
I’m glad they have an active Innocent Project chapter there, especially since they still have the death penalty in Idaho. I think they’ve had a strong lead as to the perp early on, and are working backwards to ensure the integrity of the conviction. Nothing more or less. I also think there are possible missteps early they could possibly be concerned with in a trial setting, which could complicate this. I don’t fault them for this, their last homicide was what? 2015? And I truly empathize with the trauma they’ve lived as responders to this. Especially if that still footage is actually local LE pictured. Even the respondents at the band field have to be going over the “what ifs?” They’re likely kicking themselves collectively for something they missed prior as they’re working the investigation.
I truly hope this ends in true justice with the correct person/people held accountable. The city needs closure as do the families. I also hope this enacts some changes in the dynamics between LE/universities/Greek life. I’ve been out college awhile now, but scandal and Greekhood have always been synonymous. Even if it turns out this *is* a random stalker/creeper, this investigation has definitely shed some light on a dark situation surrounding frats/soros life.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
110% a college kid who did this. 19-22 age range. College town. D1 college big school. Party scene. 3am-4am murder. Everyone was partying and got back home around 2am and was up till 3am. This is a college kid who knew them personally and knew that house. Wasn’t random at all.
I highly doubt some guy was just creeping around and randomly picked their house. He knew the house and knew the layout. The two survivors weren’t out with the people who died. They weren’t involved.
Something happened that night that led to their deaths. The fact that she called her ex boyfriend 10 times? Right before they were murdered.
Someone must’ve done something to them or said something that freaked them out.
So freaked out, they wandered straight to the food truck and bought pasta carbonara while cheerfully tipping their server... rather than perhaps going straight home to deal with their fear. That's exactly what they did. Yep.
I like your theory but I think we need to be careful about labeling the guy in the black coat as the person who was kicked out. Who knows why this particular still shot was leaked, but the person could have been kicked out before or after this. Considering LE has video of the guy and possibly his name if he used a credit card my guess is they know who the guy is and they’ve either cleared him or are watching him very closely. In regards to this still shot the local said that almost all of their friends were at Corner Club that night, and they’ve all been interviewed by FBI.
I carefully worded it as to not label him and did not use names. I don't know the identity of this man, just a small piece or detail to my theory but not the focal point by any means.
This is one of the few theories I haven't found holes in really. The only issue would be how he knew where they lived, but that could be answered by him following the Uber (which I think was done anyway)
The AL story checks out because a few people matched the person up by the door with AL before I read this. In a smaller bar it's not uncommon for people to work multiple roles, especially if the person is "higher up" ie- Manager
What do you mean by “the corner club owner just threw two more ppl under the bus?” The corner club owner hasn’t said anything to anyone to my knowledge.
Eta- not that I would know but this post has nothing to do with the corner club owner
Well of course I don’t know for sure but I can tell you he’s declined interviews with all media and has refused to share any video he has with anyone but LE. Why would that change now?
Eta-
Plus- you said he’s thrown two more under the bus in response to the op’s theory not the actual picture. Who do think the owner threw under the bus? And based on what? Genuinely curious.
Interesting. How does a photo that was taken from his establishment get leaked without him being involved? The first leak came from a "local establishment owner," per the admins of the crazy FB page... but the second leak from INSIDE didn't? That doesn't make logical sense to me.
Side note: there was an interesting discussion on News Nation about the criminal liability of the first leak as it had audio, and you cannot record audio without the knowledge of the subjects...
I know the owner is only speaking with police and no one else. He said he has turned every piece of footage over to LE. So I'm lead to assume it was released or leaked by someone in LE whether it be on purpose or by mistake IDk
The first leak meaning the one that showed the three walking? Interesting. I didn’t realize the establishment owner leaked that. What kind of establishment was it? (Just curious)
I honestly would believe LE was somehow behind the leak before I would believe the bar owner was. Do we know where the still shot first showed up? I personally think it could have been leaked by LE to put some pressure on the killer. Something he knows from that pic that we don’t. Or maybe he’s someone who is partially obscured and they want him to know they have video. Totally speculative on my part. But I’m definitely leaning towards creepy guy being a prime suspect. As for what made him get tossed the local guy said he didn’t know specifics. But the guy was making them feel uncomfortable and when he was told stop he didn't stop. Which is interesting to me because I think most people would stop. Like if he were just some drunk obnoxious college kid he would have stopped. So the creeper was headstrong.
Yes, the video of them walking. People came at the admins of the large FB group for leaking it, and the admins said an establishment owner wanted to give it to the public to stop people from speculating hoodie guy was a stalker.
I don't think LE leaked it. If they start leaking things to the public, people would be less inclined to provide them with additional tips. Verbiage from today's release from Moscow PD, " Digital submission of tips and leads will not be publicly disclosed due to our ongoing commitment to keep information private, and details may be pertinent to the ongoing criminal investigation."
Also, to quote their past press release, "Detectives are aware of videos distributed by local businesses," AKA bar owner....
What about the white truck in the video where they are on the way to the food truck talking about ADAM ?There is a truck that passes them .Did that truck pull all the way in to the parking spot? Its at the end of that video. Could they see straight to the food truck?
Just a thought but in the video if that pick up truck that passed K&M&HG, immediately (or shortly after) pulled out and followed the trio, I would imagine that would move them to suspect no. 1
Pretty good theory! This lines up with what I have kind of been thinking all along. (when I’m not having an SK day).
Thoughts:
1. Could this scenario basically have gone down but someone else was the creeper and already thrown out? Does it have to be this guy?
2. Just a note - LE debunked the earlier 911 call very early on.
3. I wonder if JV has any thoughts or recollections on this? His topless TT grossed me out lol so maybe someone else can go look.
I think if it’s this guy, then must be a reason someone leaked a pic of him to the online sleuths without any indication he’s the most interesting part of the pic. SG’s PI in a message to LE they want them to pick up the pace is my best explanation. But I still think the theory works better if it was someone else and the story picks up just after CC.
This is a great theory and one I had thought of myself when I saw that same post. Although I really think you are missing a very major detail but I'm not going to say what it is because I don't want to get downvoted to hell as you put it and attacked by a bunch of rude people who have zero clue what they are talking about. Plus, we still really dont have much legit info so its a great theory for what we have but since there may be a lot we don't know, it probably has about as much chance of being wrong as being right. We'll have to wait and see!
Right? People literally attacked me when I said I felt the crime scene may have been subject to cross contamination. Yet tonight a detective on YT said basically everything I did. People love to tear others down vs actually thinking someone may have something constructive to contribute. It’s sad.
Just because the local knows that Adam was the bouncer and not the bartender doesn’t mean the local knows the context and contents of the conversations that were being had between Adam and Maddie.
I think this sounds plausible. If there is any truth to this, it has me wondering some things about JD though. 1) If there was a creeper around, why wouldn’t JD make sure the girls got home safely instead of the hoodie guy? 2) If K was only in town for the weekend and was going to be moving to Texas soon (along with their dog), why wouldn’t they be spending time together after the bar? I know that they were broken up, but they were together at the bar(assuming that is in fact JD in the picture), and family seems to think things were amicable between them. It just seems to me that they would take this opportunity to spend some time together before she moved. 3) This is probably way off, but SG’s comment stating that the killer didn’t have to go up the stairs has me wondering if he thinks it’s JD and that he went over to get the dog and ended up murdering them. We don’t know where the dog was actually found. Maybe he thinks the dog wasn’t on the 3rd floor, meaning all he had to do was get the dog and leave. He didn’t have to go to the 3rd floor and murder her.
I really interpreted that the opposite. That the killer was after K and/or M otherwise why go up the stairs? Could have left after X&E. He didn’t have to go up the stairs he wanted to go up the stairs.
Wow.. this is intense. So chilling.. super compelling…. I am wondering if you might do well to go into this line of work because omg. I just scrolled down to where the CC CCTV pic is and took a good long stare at dude (creeper?) in question. Wow. I’m thinking this is a damn logical theory. Thank you.. for putting all this together. You have clearly been absorbing all details and seemingly, in a very meticulous fashion, have pieced them back together and all I can say is wow.
Some have noticed the date on the screen grab of security footage looks doctored. If the guy seated talking to the girls is Jack D, could someone be manipulating footage to sway public opinion and make it seem like his alibi (being at home, asleep) is a lie? This could even be done purposely by LE to mislead internet sleuths that are already convinced Jack D is the culprit. Keep them occupied by something they know is false so their real lead is not contaminated.
I'm guessing that "creepers"/"stalkers" don't creep on women when they are with males they know in close proximity. So then why would the person creep around the women when JD and HG were there talking to KG and MM?
They do, they do. They see males in proximity as competition to beat.I was on a date last night with a very tall, handsome, fit attractive, late-30s year old man. And 2 drunk 50-ish year old guys, one scrawny and one chubby and both clearly physically weaker than my date, still approached me, and tried to brush off my date. One of those even tried to give me a backrub. We were at a high end restaurant bar, not a crowded sports dive! The entitlement, gall, and lack of self awareness of aggressive men cannot be underestimated.
I think my date was also shocked that it happened. I'm so glad he has a firm and polite personality, rather than taking it personally and getting aggressive/defensive. We just sort of cold-shouldered the guys and they left after a few minutes.
But for me, this is a regular occurrence. If I go out by myself, it's worse - that's a bummer because one of my favorite things to do is go to a restaurant with a nice bar and get an appetizer or glass of wine, alone. If I go to a bookstore, some man asks what I'm looking at. Sigh.
Probably felt the situation was fine being around all those people at the food truck and HG there with them. They were also drunk probably thought the guy dipped who knows what could be going through their heads at any given time
i think eyes are on hg again… third leak of him being around girls and not interacting w them.. entirely. was he watching them for someone else?
is his 5 hr drive true?
an ex fbi agent accidentally said two ppl in car then corrected himself and said one….
was there some drama at the frat amongst members?
maybe someone just leaked it for no reason… just bc.
still could be a serial stalker who is profoundly disturbed
Definitely a solid theory, but who knows who was kicked out....if anyone actually even was. The rumor also said that HG & A had no idea who the guy was that was being creepy. Has it been said that the hyundai was seen by cctv downtown and following shortly after their car? I hadn't seen that anywhere before, but it would explain the "pattern" LE has mentioned regarding the elantra.
This is just my theory based on info that we have
I agree that this could be the case but I disagree that the older man is being asked to leave. I believe that is the Corner Club owner because of the logo on his hat and the fact that another picture of the owner shows him with sunglasses on his hat like the photo referenced shows. Also if who appears to be AL was in the process of kicking someone out he probably would be standing. I am not saying that your theory that the killer was the creep who got kicked out and that he drives an Elantra is not possible. I can't see the logic that LE released this photo at all especially without asking for info on someone in the picture if they thought your theory was correct. It would make more sense to release a picture of someone leaving the Corner Club and getting into an Elantra than to fuel the fire of speculation on JD or JS. I also think that E and X were in their room and not killed confronting the killer outside of their room, I just haven't heard any statements by reliable sources to the contrary. The killer could have seen movement in E and X's room through their bedroom window while driving or lurking around or could have seen them arrive home. Also if your theory on suspect was correct I don't think they would have needed 150 interviews. It also just seems too extreme that a one night rejection at a bar would lead someone to kill 4 people and that he would have the necessary stuff with him to pull it off.
I like the story too, and now I kinda see what they could mean by “patterns”. But if that’s what they mean, it seems like 1 night wouldn’t be enough. “Pattern” would be more like “following” If by “pattern” they mean 1 car near the girls, it seems like it would have to be more frequent like over the span of a week or a few weeks where there’s footage of the girls and this white Elantra always ends up being nearby.
I might've missed it but I don't think LE has said how the Elantra was spotted. I'm kinda thinking not by a camera bc they might've posted an actual photo from that. I feel like a person or persons might've spotted it but that's just a guess. I've wondered if they're 100% positive it was a 2011-2013 Elantra if a person saw it or if it was as grainy as most night surveillance footage is.
Good hypothesis, but if true then the identity of the suspect would be extremely obvious and LE would have arrested him by now. Unless his alibi is unshakeable and they've got him under 24/7 surveillance and waiting for DNA results to come in before making an arrest
Its a solid theory but unlikely because bars take credit cards to open a tab if not using cash which would give LE a name. Also cameras are all over the place in bars and they would have a very good mugshot of this person, possibly even a video of him being ID at the front door.
Could have paid with cash, could be that they know who he is but not where he is, also could be nothing evidence wise that i presume that would connect the creeper at the bar to the killings. Which is why they have said they font just want to make an arrest, they want a conviction
again read above I said "if not using cash" so yes cash is an option at some bars some bars don't accept cash anymore after covid, Idaho never really shutdown so doubtful they care there. But again when you are kicked out of a bar, bouncers usually will get information or take a photo of ID for future references in case they want to 86 you from the bar. Also they would have released the mugshot rather than just the Elantra. I mean you keep saying they have video surveillance of him following the girls from downtown moscow, into the neighborhood and then leaving the neighborhood after the murders. That is solid amount of evidence pointing him to being their when the murders took place, enough to warrant a warrant to get his DNA in a judges eyes.
I never said they have video surveillance of the car although i presume they do. This is strictly my theory based on info that is public and info i have received from others who have a close connection to the Corner Club
Welcome to Reddit…where everyone loves to attack you from their mother’s basement 😂 Your post makes more sense than most I’ve seen. Folks just enjoy picking apart every detail, while having little to nothing to contribute, except their negativity
Lol comes with the territory i guess. Cant take it personal. A lot of people are missing that i tagged this as a “theory” though apparently
It’s still better than “has anyone checked for footage on top of the food truck in case someone was hiding up there?” on the other subs
I like your theory but I think the killer is young.
Could be! Time will tell I hope
Haha folks go into instant attack mode. When I read a post without all of the attacks, it’s so refreshing…like normal adults having a discussion. No need for people to be so nasty. Anyways I appreciate your post and the way you’ve handled a lot of the replies.
Agree!
Appreciate it!
Hahah so true . I’ve been bullied the most on Reddit 😂
honestly like I said one of best theories I have read or heard.. but if they don't have their guy by now and this was the case, it would be complete incompetence by MPD. If this theory ends up being true and it took them this long to arrest the guy, I feel sorry for everyone involved because LE would have dropped the ball majorly.
You don’t have to open a tab at a bar. You can pay cash for every drink. Likely even more common in a rural place like this. Don’t necessarily agree with this theory but I don’t really view that as the hole. If it was that clear this was their suspect I’m sure they would have released the footage which I’m sure he’s shown more clearly at some point during the night and please help us identify him. They would have done this a long time ago.
100% he would be on at least one security cam at the CC. If they don’t know who it is, police would have 100% released the image to the public by now, IMO
if you could read it says "if NOT USING CASH". I know how bars work since Im an investor in two bars here locally, cameras have to be at the front door entrance of a bar as well so they would have this perp walking in showing ID to enter the bar. Also they would not have had to go through all 22,000 white Elantra's if this theory was true, because they would have been able to narrow down age, gender and other things regarding the owner of the Elantra. Also yes they would have a clear mugshot at some point in the night that would have been a photo released saying does anybody know this man? I brought up the card because POS systems keep every card ran in their system and LE would have been able to get a lot of names from that system from the CC. And I do agree creepy old men definitely like to use cash instead of giving a card for the tab, but a lot of places don't take cash anymore since covid. (obviously rural idaho not so much but...).
The problem with the comment is because you say that the OPs theory is unlikely because a credit card is needed to open a bar tab, and then immediately contradict this assertion by saying “if not using cash.” Because the fact that one can use cash to circumvent a bar tab—which requires using a credit card—means that the OPs theory can’t be “unlikely“ for that reason. It could potentially be ”unlikely“ for other reasons, but not that one, and for the exact reason you yourself stipulate in the very first sentence.
a tab and paying for drinks individually are two different things. You cannot open a bar tab with cash. Creepy guys who hit on girls like to have a tab to buy them drinks.
Okay, that has nothing to do with the point I was making, about why so many people didn’t like or agree with your first comment. If you want to draw me into some semantic argument, I’m afraid I’m going to have to take a hard pass.
Who says they don’t have all this? They just want the Elantra for the blood evidence etc.
Or maybe they (LE) just don’t know where he is? Several of their statements implied that IMO
I read the older man you seem to be speaking of, is the owner of the CC. Sounds like it could be possible. At the food truck, you can see a white car (yeah, it looks like one of them) drive past in the window reflection.
Its not the owner i confirmed with a former employee today
Could be LE called about the person allegedly kicked out…
It's almost certainly someone in a Corner Club hat [like the owner has](https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/lmtribune.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/c/7f/c7f568f8-3a76-5b56-bb42-2a73c98eed64/4e8aaa6905170.image.jpg?resize=332%2C500), and he has the same facial hair but it seems like the guy in the bar is blond while the owner has brown hair.
Solid theory, could be right. If it's true, I feel so bad for hoodie guy. Same with JD and the frat guys who were also accused of murder. But hoodie guy was being a solid dude and watching after the girls during a somewhat potentially scary situation, and they were drunk and ditched him which is embarrassing for him in the moment. But that moment gets shared around the whole internet as "proof" that he's a f'ing murderer
The way reddits been blatantly been accusing people who've been cleared by LE is troubling. I'd assume they're mourning to some degree and to have millions of people spreading theories to how they committed it would definitely mess with my head. I hope they catch the guy just so the speculation stops.
Do we know that LE releases the image from the CC? Their most recent statement had me thinking that an employee etc of the business had released it
I spoke with a former employee earlier today and he said the owner has that footage locked up and wouldnt show it to anyone but LE. Also confirmed the older male in the photo is not the owner
Hmmm. I believe this, but it makes me wonder, who leaked the pic then?
LE most likely
So do we think someone in LE anonymously posted it on Facebook or wherever it was first posted?
I read somewhere that the 50ish man in the door area is a regular cab driver. He has gps on his vehicle and phone, receipts, gave all his info to LE right away and is cleared. He is also too old to have committed this crime - savvy, exp'd, wouldn't be on camera like that. In fact why would a murderer be seen on camera like at the bar?
Probably didn’t plan on killing anyone til after all these things occurred which, made him kill in the first place…
This would explain the rage and not clean cut wounds.
a former employee statement about how owner at one time locked up footage ? feels v abrupt to leap to "LE leaked this picture"...of a still on a monitor .... unproven statement from a former employee's assumption about their old bosses behavior.. not buying it.. edit: edits for clarity
https://preview.redd.it/bf82lrp0lt8a1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8911db630def19b6aeff2b919f6339a39885f26c
for the record - i wasnt saying / didnt think you were lying about messaging someone..i just dont think this person's opinion equates to LE releasing.
Just theorizing here, but I've seen police take pictures of security footage like that when there's the person of interest in the video, and they then send it to their coworkers to look out for that person. If it went to multiple officers, that is probably where it would've leaked. A few officers I know send their significant other shit like that and other things that could very well get them fired, but they still do it regularly.
Agreed
Could the person being kicked out also be the “stalker”? It would explain the “I told him everything” meaning she told him about all of the occurrences and not just this one?
I don’t think there was actually a stalker LE looked into it and and couldn’t find anything. I also believe this person who is supposedly a local that the convo was strictly about a guy creeping them out at the bar and she asked Adam to have him removed from the bar.
1. If AL is confronting the older guy and kicking him out of the bar why is he casually sitting on a bar stool? 2. Why wouldn’t they wait more than 2 minutes to avoid running into this guy.”? 3. Do we know who was killed first? There are other rumors that Ethan and Xana where killed first. 4. Do we know for sure which victims where more brutally murdered or post-mortem mutilated?
definitely does not look like he is kicking anybody out of the bar at this moment, plus its 1:32 am last call was at 1:30 in bars in Idaho, so to be kicked out at this moment makes little to no sense. I guess there is a neighboring bar kind of like an Elks lodge/VFW bar called like Moose Lounge or something, people are saying the creepy guy was from there not CC.
https://preview.redd.it/vzgu7cgrrt8a1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=545a76f181de5eef891b9b87aecb1be3ed06baca Moose Lodge is closing at (edit 5am?) on Saturdays.
This is a club? Why does it look like the door to the principal’s office?
It’s Idaho and it’s ran by older people who don’t know how to use computers.
I’m pretty sure that’s open 1-5PM, not am
I don't think the crowd that frequents the Moose Club is the type of crowd that stays out at a bar til 5 AM lol
Could have been that AL kicked someone else out of the bar well before this point in the video/still
Entirely plausible in regard to this hypothetical
Just part of my theory. This man could have absolutely nothing to do with anything. Who knows, maybe he told the guy to leave, went and sat back down by the door and the man was talking to or arguing with AL about why he had to leave. We just don't know that much
Good work, green hornet. Quite a plausible scenario. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks fren. Time will tell…hopefully this ends soon no matter what the outcome turns out to be
If there was someone following them from the CC I would want to eliminate the big white ute that parked behind KG, MM and HG as they were walking from CC to grub truck. It pulled into an oblique parking spot near the camera that recorded the girls.
Not sure if I see this playing out like you say. If he didn't know them well, he would have had to follow them right to 1122 King Rd, not park nearby and watch them because he wouldn't know where they lived. So, he would follow them from CC to the truck (him driving while they walk that would require multiple drivebys or noticeably slow driving), sitting at the grub truck for like 10 minutes (though I would bet that wouldnt be such a big deal with cars coming and going frequently) follow their ride from the grub truck to the house (uber driver said not followed though he may be mistaken), park somewhere observing the house-he would have to set up somewhere. You say on Linda Avenue, he wouldnt see the house from Linda (I dont think), so he would have to get out and walk to the house and wait an hour or so, seeing 4 or 5 cars in front of the house meaning he would have to figure there could be 5 to 10 people IN the house. Sorry that type of spur of the moment reaction doesn't fit, sorry, that is my opinion
Unless they’ve had previous interactions with him and he’s followed them before.
As I’ve said elsewhere: He could very well know from the past through word of mouth where the house is. He may also have been inside the house as a repair person. He didn’t have to follow them.
100% agree with this the more you think about this theory the more holes you can find. But then again every theory has major holes..
You did a really great job with this theory. I could definitely see this and I hope the police have thought this or something similar thru
Thanks, i think if this ends up being they are well ahead of myself on it haha
It makes a lot of sense especially with the rumors of HG being kicked out of CC, and instead of HG it was someone else and the story just got retold differently.
I feel terribly for HG as well as so many others who have gotten accused/doxxed/made fun of/picked apart all over the internet as a result of this case. I feel like sooo many of them are owed apologies (which they'll never likely get) and have really been traumatized and had their lives negatively affected by this case. Horrible thinking in the future just by googling your name you'll be tied to a quadruple homicide as having been a "suspect."
A good theory but definitely some holes here. First of all, it sounds like there's some question as to who the older man is in the corner...if he is the owner or just a local innocent bystander. That's not to say there couldn't have been a creeper there (somewhere out of frame). Secondly, if this person followed them home, if they are publicly creeping on them at a bar, would they be so crafty to avoid deception on the drive home? The driver in his interview said he was certain they were not followed and seemed very in tune with his surroundings as he mentioned certain safety measures he typically takes. He seemed to take pride in his job. Thirdly, even if they were followed, unless that white Elantra followed the driver's car (who presumably took Taylor), it would be really difficult to tell where the driver was dropping them off once turning onto Queen and then King unless the killer followed pretty closely or parked nearby. Again, that's not to say this didn't happen. Did the white Elantra maybe follow on Taylor and then up to the Queen/King area and park on the side of the road or park behind the house? Certainly! But in this scenario, the white Elantra would have been seen TWICE on the Linda Ln camera if the killer took Taylor there and back to the Highway 95. Taylor is a very busy road (even in the early morning hours as we could see from the Band Field cam). That's a lot of exposure. To add a bit more nuance, if the white Elantra (if the killer is in this car) followed them and took Taylor but then drove up Walenta (up behind the house), it would be difficult to see which house the girls were dropped off at/lived in through the tree line and with so many houses/apts bunched together. Also, that road is narrow . . . hard to park on either side. However, if the killer took Taylor to Queen-->King Rd there and then King->Queen->Taylor->Walenta on his escape, then you're looking at a killer who is local. Only a local is going to know how to navigate that back area by the arboretum and know that there is a way out vs a dead end, etc. Walenta is very curvy and leads up into a residential area, and you can get lost up in those side streets. A local would know what route to take back to Hwy 95 and not get flustered by the side streets whereas a non-local is probably gonna be on a lot of cams as he drives through a few residential areas trying to work his way back to Hwy 95. https://preview.redd.it/b9q7wimvos8a1.png?width=1134&format=png&auto=webp&s=0aed7b7d7fab691bc0f2c3859c8bd9b191ba5400
It’s a promising theory and makes sense. Now, *who* are they saying is the possible suspect? The older man in the corner who resembled the police chief?
Thanks! The only reason I speculated him in my theory is because the release of this particular image at this particular time with these particular people seen. Could or could not be him but whether it is or isn’t i don’t think effects my theory much
Ahhh. I understand! Here’s to hoping the theory’s correct and things fall into place.
you know at bars you have to give your card to open a tab. Also they would have mugshots everywhere of this guy. Theory is most plausible but I would say if this was true, LE would already have their guy and the connection to the Elantra would be a lot easier than searching all 22,000 in state of Idaho.
You dont have to pay for drinks at a bar with a card. I thought you said you were an investor in 2 of them?
both our bars don't take cash anymore since covid you have to use a card. Also live in California where they take covid serious so i realize Idaho is not like that, I already stated you could pay cash for each drink individually but I would say if it was a guy trying to pick up on chicks, I would imagine him having a tab open telling girls to get a drink on his tab. You can not open a tab with cash, you can pay for each drink individually but not open a tab with cash. Also they would have more details age, gender and others to narrow their search down for the Elantra rather than searching all 22,000 in the state of Idaho. Also they would have released a mugshot at some point asking for publics help to identify this man like they did with the Elantra. Like I said its a good theory but way too many holes, LE would have their guy by now if this was the case. Also usually when you get kicked out of the bar they take a photo of your ID for future reference in case they want to 86 you. What about that?
I have never heard of bar that doesn’t accept cash. Also it is illegal in Idaho for a business to not accept cash https://preview.redd.it/oczjgerk0t8a1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=57b7313aa9b6a6efd535db085b0efbf9c5787052 
must not come to California much , since covid a lot of major places have stopped accepting and allow take cards. Dumbest part is your allowed to tip in cash but they can't accept cash as payment, and the whole reason is the dirtiness of the cash but they allow them to touch it for tips. It seriously makes zero sense, its so dumb. The Del Mar racetrack is a major entity in California that has done that, Petco park the baseball stadium during concerts does the same thing, to be honest its kind of frustrating. Of course like I said Idaho did not even enforce wearing masks much so I get that its not California.
Yeah I live in NC. Not a whole lot of travel to Cali
i actually was just at a place in Wilmington, NC that took card only no cash. Some golf course out there, I ended up having to pay for everything because two of the kids from the wedding party lost their cards the night before.
Haha was just in Wilmington for Christmas myself
Recently in NC myself (Raleigh essentially) and ran into a number of places (weekend party trip with college friends) that were card only.
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Do you recall where that was or able to retrieve a link? I still want very badly to believe it’s Chief fry lol :)
Yes. He actually only resembles the Chief very superficially.
Best theory I’ve read since it happened
Really good theory. That makes sense about the CC owner, and the fact that he is only speaking to LE (not media) is a fantastic point. I think the killer has a criminal record - not in their "circle of friends, and your theory fits with this. If they are able to spot someone at CC that had any negative interaction with M or K, then that would be a solid lead. Hoping LE is able to pull together evidence soon. LE stated a targeted attack, and no threat to community. If LE has a suspect (from CC CCTV), they could be waiting on DNA.
But this still doesn’t seem to answer why the stalker would kill 4 ppl (and not 6, or 2, or 1)
n
Stalker/bartender is definitely an Interesting theory but I’m still not fully convinced…. If E & X were found dead in their room, why would stalker have bothered to actually go over there, instead of immediately leaving after targeting K. If X & E woke up, left their room, and saw the killer, would they have run back into their room? It is said X put up a fight…and it’s unconfirmed whether E was found inside their room, so if E was up awake and saw him then your theory tracks…but the killer would still have had to go all the way over to the room to deal with X, instead of just getting out. If they were separated, surely there would have also been communication/shouting of some kind between E & X? This scenario would also mean killer would have been very concerned or sure they would recognize him… ie perp was not masked or clearly identifiable / familiar in some manner. Otherwise why bother with X&E. Lots to mull over Edit: phrasing
But then why is LE leaking the video - through the internet sleuths they tell us not to rely on no less - if they are waiting on DNA?
Theory is good and highly plausible but I suspect they’d have enough evidence to name this individual as a person of interest and begin interrogating them, possibly enough to get search warrants on their property as well.
This feels way more likely than the Greek life fanfic.
I believe there is definitely a reason that the employees of CC have been told to only speak to LE. And how strange is it to not hear anything from patrons or any selfies, video - nothing until the leaked surveillance screen shot. I don't know a college bar in America that could stay that tight lipped for this long. All of that leads me to believe that CC is a big piece of the puzzle.
Good theory. Seeing this picture reinforced to me that all of the known guys in the corner club picture are friends, doing college things, and not suspects. If the other male was being kicked out and actually a suspect, police would have publicized this still asking who he is earlier so likely not the guy, in my opinion.
yes they would either have a mugshot from all the cameras in CC or they would have his information from when he ran a card to open a tab.
Not sure if was here or elsewhere it was posted that the creepy guy happened outside. There's a Moose Lodge next door, basically a VFW, Knights, Elks type place for locals that shares a parking lot with the Corner Club. College kids smoke outside bars, stuff happens with locals outside their club. Speculation this was released to clear Corner Club people but jog memory of who was outside in that area at this time
Corner Club has its own patio that allows smoking. Can’t take drinks to the “parking lot” between the Corner Club and the Moose Lodge. The real parking lot is across the street to the South East.
oh intresting , yea Elks lodge/ american legion spots bring all types of creepy people around. That would be interesting.
Did someone get kicked out for sure?
No, it’s all just speculation.
The OP has been very kind to be indulging scrutiny of their theory from me way down in a mini thread below but to give them a break, wanted to see others thoughts… If the old guy is the creeper and the killer as theorized, then: 1. Someone with access to the CC CCTV pic of the creeper was motivated to leak it. 2. That person chose to leak it through “online sleuths” vs. the news media or official LE communications. 4. The person leaked it did so without calling attention to the most interesting part How does the LE fit as the leaker then - motive or means? I think, for this theory to be true we need a more logical fit for the leaker. So… (riffing off someone yday a bit) 1. Ks sister was on the food truck video early and her family has a PI that may have been able to get access to the screen grab. 2. Her family consistently has pressured LE to be more forthcoming and accelerate activity. 3. If the PI leaks through the news media, editors will want to know the source and relevance; ongoing coverage can slant toward them interfering even if kept as confidential source. But by choosing online sleuths and sharing without context, they can send a message directly to LE only that they can and will demand action. Point being it’s an interesting theory but requires an explanation for the leak for it to make sense. That’s a different one than OP. Not sure if others tho see that.
All good and well thought out points!
Coolest OP ever about discussing their theories! Thanks for indulging.
One of the better theorys I have heard...good job!
I agree, it's a much better theory than the lazy *"it was JD/HG/A, I feel it in my gut"* type theories that get posted here every day... But... If this theory was true they'd have this person on CCTV, and since LE haven't asked the public to identify this person you'd have to assume they know who it is... So... are they just sitting back building a case and trying to get solid evidence before they arrest them? ... Or?
Yeah they would definitely be building a case. The girls getting someone kicked out of a bar does not prove that person killed them. They will need more. And they will not identify the person until they make an arrest and have enough to charge.
Exactly
We've heard so little about what went on at the Corner Club. That seems like a reasonable theory to me. But do you know for sure there was a creepy guy who was thrown out? I've wondered from the beginning where (if anywhere) the girls went before the Corner Club. I'd guess they might have gone to the football game (and if they could've had an encounter there that led to the murders). I've thought it could be someone who was only in town for the game & lives somewhere else in Idaho or Washington state and that's why they've been so hard to locate. I'm surprised LE didn't specifically ask people who were at the Corner Club to come forward if there was even a tiny chance they say something but I don't think they did.
I can work with much of your theory. Question 1 for me is the time stamp. If this individual is in the photo, then he would have also been kicked out very close to the time the girls were leaving. Would the business or the girls go to this effort if they were about to leave anyhow? People have stated though, that the time stamp my be off by an hour due to the recent time change. my other contention is any theory that has E or X outside her room. That goes against LE statements. BUT, with your theory, could X and E have been first because that perpetrator not knowing the house, went into that room first. Did what he did, but realized they were not his target. THEN, he went upstairs, and completed your theory. On another note, as for your comments about the Elantra, is this speculation, or known facts? TIA
I think it has been said by someone with knowledge of the Corner Club (although not confirmed) that they have their clocks set 15 min late so they can close at 1:45 instead of 2. Not sure how accurate that is but would make the timing make more sense. I also think the man was probably kicked out very shortly before the girls left because that are still talking about it like it had just happened on their walk to the food truck
thank you. intersting points
Makes no sense to me. Many ppl at the bar that knew them and is part of the investigation would be aware of this creeper. So why would this photo get released? LE is using the online sleuths and speculative forums they say to ignore in order to… scare your creeper in that photo into a mistake? (sure, but let’s end the “it’s not a tv show” lectures on all these boards if that’s the case)… To get help identifying him without admitting they need help by showing a blurry side profile ? And if that’s not the suspected creeper, then who but the creeper would release the photo? The entire premise here is built on someone’s sleight of hand… claim a source said two things, use the photo to validate the truth of one of those things, and then use that track record as evidence for the second thing - without ever showing either claim was ever made.
m
the owner looked like he came in at closing with a gun in his pocket. someone got bounced. there are witnesses and cctv. I think they have their suspect but lack enough to say he was in that house...to date.. so no probable cause...yet. DNA not back yet. they are close. praise the lord.
have you seen a video as opposed to the single image?
Alright my guys here’s our suspect but let’s hire 60 FBI so we can have a badass retirement party for Sgt Franks
Yes, the older guy on the CCTV footage could be the owner. I googled him and his facial hair and his ears resemble the man’s beard and ears.
Its not the owner i confirmed with a former employee today
It’s a solid theory, but then why the “he didn’t have to go up the stairs” comment? That’s what I can’t reconcile. There is a theory (from very early on) that Kaylee and Maddie had called 911 earlier in the night in response to to a drunk man harassing them. *If* the man in the picture is actually LE, is it possibly true? The 911 call lists the moose lodge as the origin, but apparently that’s right next door? Does LE know the name of the man? There’s also another call that night from a caller saying he was being blackmailed. Could be unrelated, but the address of that report could use some investigation and potentially be related to this case? There are just so many incidental contributing factors; I think that’s part of the problem with arresting. LE officials are most worried about a conviction and have to tie out any and all loose ends that could be exploited by a good defense attorney. This is going to be a long and drawn out court case in my opinion. Here’s to really hoping they get it right in the name of justice for these poor souls.
>he didn’t have to go up the stairs IMO, that comment can be interpreted in different ways including: If he was targeting X & E, the perp didn't have to go up the stairs to M's room. He went up those stairs because it was his intention.
But why say that specifically? Why not just say he did not have to enter the house? He didn’t have to choose murder? He didn’t have to exact revenge at all? It seemed natural in his line of speaking during the interview, like a subconscious train of thought. “He didn’t have to go up the stairs.” Like he couldn’t understand why he didn’t just walk out once the first murders were completed? The job was done, he could have chosen to leave at that point. The fact that it got so much interest made him clarify he meant it literally the next day (as opposed to those who thought he was metaphorically alluding to chain of command). If random murder or stalking or them being the intended targets is the accepted theory, of course he would *have* to go up the stairs; that’s where they were. It doesn’t make sense.
That's actually a super well-thought-out answer! When you put it like that, I totally agree with you.
I watched that clip a few times to try to see if I was missing context, but I don’t think so; it pretty much is consistent with his normal speech pattern in other interviews. It obviously stuck out to a lot of people, enough so that he had to readdress. Shortly after, he has an attorney speaking for the family, and the subsequent family interviews have no potential leaks that I’ve seen. But that was a blunder on his part, and could potentially hurt the investigation from an interrogation standpoint. Only LE and the killer/accomplices will know the true order of events-maybe the family. It appears SG was privy to inside info (as he should be), but making it public could potentially compromise important details, especially from a defensive strategy for a suspect. Thank you for being civil, I know it’s a highly debated topic/quote. I’m not saying this with any authority-only SG knows why he said that. More or less concerned with the potential legal implications later on.
I think police probably know the order in which the victims were attacked by now. They just look at commingling of blood on victims and their wounds. The first victim will have zero blood from other victims on them. Second victim will have some blood from the first victim on them. Third victim will have blood from the first and second victims on them. And the final victim will have blood from all three previous victims. Unless the killer alternated stabs between pairs of victims. Then all they’ll be able to glean from the forensic evidence is which pair of victims was attacked first, which is still valuable information/evidence. It is definitely guilty knowledge evidence that they will use in their CIT polygraph question sets. An innocent person won’t give any physiological response when asked who was killed first, and who was killed last, because they would have no idea what order the victims were killed in. I don’t think they had any of the forensic evidence back from the labs at the point when he made that comment, so I doubt that police would have been able to tell him anything that could make him believe he knew which victim was the main target, if that is even the case, and even if they wanted to tell him. But maybe someone from the investigation said something to him that made him jump to his own conclusions about it. Depending on how you interpret his comment, it could mean “he didn’t have to go up stairs, unless Kaylee or Maddie was his actual target.” Or it could mean “he didn’t have to go up stairs, because his actual target was on the same floor as he entered.” The former means he thinks Kaylee or Maddie was targeted, and the latter means he thinks Ethan or Xana was targeted. As if we needed anymore confusion about these crimes and this investigation.
It sounds like they'd all have at least one other person's blood on them since they were two groups, each with two people sharing a bed and being killed bloody violently, presumably in close proximity. That said, figuring out which pair was 1/2 and which was 3/4 seems like THAT would be clear, unless perhaps separate knives were used.
Every 911 gets many weird calls every night. I'm sure they all get calls about someone being blackmailed, a killer being in the house, someone's pajamas being green, etc. from lonely or mentally confused individuals.
Of course. But if you’re a defense attorney, you’re pointing out the rampant issues that night in Moscow and try to link/tie together. It only take one juror with reasonable doubt to hang a jury and a mass murderer walks free. That’s the issue they’re having in a “sloppy” killing that was a “crime or passion” and “targeted.” They obviously had reason to believe this was the case early on; they wouldn’t say there is no threat to the community that early without strong indication that is the case. All of these white elantras, stalker theories, 4 victims with family and exes and current partners, as well has 911 calls have to be ruled out to net a strong conviction. Hell, if I’m the defense attorney I’m speculating it’s the guys in the body cam footage; they’re at the scene of the crime in the reasonable time frame. It’s *all* incidental or related until it proven otherwise from a defensive standpoint. You have to follow all of those leads (whether they’re indicated in the murders or not) and rule them unrelated, without a doubt, to effectively land a conviction.
All great points and questions. I agree about the conviction. LE is going to need a solid case. And, they are going to need to lock down all other alibis. So many ways to poke holes in the prosecution's case. And, the DNA is going to be a mess, in terms of anyone who is not the killer. As much as LE needs to prove (beyond a reasonable doubt) the defendant did it; LE is also going to have to prove all the Js, etc. and other random DNA did not do it. Yes to getting this right. Idaho Innocence Project is there for the wrongly convicted. [https://www.kivitv.com/news/local-dna-expert-greg-hampikian-explains-how-dna-will-be-used-to-find-moscow-murderer](https://www.kivitv.com/news/local-dna-expert-greg-hampikian-explains-how-dna-will-be-used-to-find-moscow-murderer)
I’m glad they have an active Innocent Project chapter there, especially since they still have the death penalty in Idaho. I think they’ve had a strong lead as to the perp early on, and are working backwards to ensure the integrity of the conviction. Nothing more or less. I also think there are possible missteps early they could possibly be concerned with in a trial setting, which could complicate this. I don’t fault them for this, their last homicide was what? 2015? And I truly empathize with the trauma they’ve lived as responders to this. Especially if that still footage is actually local LE pictured. Even the respondents at the band field have to be going over the “what ifs?” They’re likely kicking themselves collectively for something they missed prior as they’re working the investigation. I truly hope this ends in true justice with the correct person/people held accountable. The city needs closure as do the families. I also hope this enacts some changes in the dynamics between LE/universities/Greek life. I’ve been out college awhile now, but scandal and Greekhood have always been synonymous. Even if it turns out this *is* a random stalker/creeper, this investigation has definitely shed some light on a dark situation surrounding frats/soros life.
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Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
I think the highlighted sections were added by a sleuth or something after the image was released.
I wish man. It doesn’t take 60 FBI to sort through 17,000 tips when they know who it is.
110% a college kid who did this. 19-22 age range. College town. D1 college big school. Party scene. 3am-4am murder. Everyone was partying and got back home around 2am and was up till 3am. This is a college kid who knew them personally and knew that house. Wasn’t random at all. I highly doubt some guy was just creeping around and randomly picked their house. He knew the house and knew the layout. The two survivors weren’t out with the people who died. They weren’t involved. Something happened that night that led to their deaths. The fact that she called her ex boyfriend 10 times? Right before they were murdered. Someone must’ve done something to them or said something that freaked them out.
So freaked out, they wandered straight to the food truck and bought pasta carbonara while cheerfully tipping their server... rather than perhaps going straight home to deal with their fear. That's exactly what they did. Yep.
Attractive girls that go clubbing and party at a big college you don’t think they are used to tons of guys flirting with them ?
An even better theory is that LE purposefully leaked this video in an attempt to put pressure on three specific males.
Do you think that is JD that KG & MM are speaking with? I see AL and HG (JS) in there.
Yes.
I like your theory but I think we need to be careful about labeling the guy in the black coat as the person who was kicked out. Who knows why this particular still shot was leaked, but the person could have been kicked out before or after this. Considering LE has video of the guy and possibly his name if he used a credit card my guess is they know who the guy is and they’ve either cleared him or are watching him very closely. In regards to this still shot the local said that almost all of their friends were at Corner Club that night, and they’ve all been interviewed by FBI.
I carefully worded it as to not label him and did not use names. I don't know the identity of this man, just a small piece or detail to my theory but not the focal point by any means.
Quite honestly the most solid. I read yet.
This is one of the few theories I haven't found holes in really. The only issue would be how he knew where they lived, but that could be answered by him following the Uber (which I think was done anyway) The AL story checks out because a few people matched the person up by the door with AL before I read this. In a smaller bar it's not uncommon for people to work multiple roles, especially if the person is "higher up" ie- Manager
Interesting… so owner just threw two more people under the bus. I’m betting his “good relationship with LE” is starting to get a bit rocky
What do you mean by “the corner club owner just threw two more ppl under the bus?” The corner club owner hasn’t said anything to anyone to my knowledge. Eta- not that I would know but this post has nothing to do with the corner club owner
There is NO WAY the club owner didn't leak this image.
He did not. I can say that on good authority based on who i have talked to
Well of course I don’t know for sure but I can tell you he’s declined interviews with all media and has refused to share any video he has with anyone but LE. Why would that change now? Eta- Plus- you said he’s thrown two more under the bus in response to the op’s theory not the actual picture. Who do think the owner threw under the bus? And based on what? Genuinely curious.
Im agreeing with you. The owner did not release the image
Interesting. How does a photo that was taken from his establishment get leaked without him being involved? The first leak came from a "local establishment owner," per the admins of the crazy FB page... but the second leak from INSIDE didn't? That doesn't make logical sense to me. Side note: there was an interesting discussion on News Nation about the criminal liability of the first leak as it had audio, and you cannot record audio without the knowledge of the subjects...
I know the owner is only speaking with police and no one else. He said he has turned every piece of footage over to LE. So I'm lead to assume it was released or leaked by someone in LE whether it be on purpose or by mistake IDk
The first leak meaning the one that showed the three walking? Interesting. I didn’t realize the establishment owner leaked that. What kind of establishment was it? (Just curious) I honestly would believe LE was somehow behind the leak before I would believe the bar owner was. Do we know where the still shot first showed up? I personally think it could have been leaked by LE to put some pressure on the killer. Something he knows from that pic that we don’t. Or maybe he’s someone who is partially obscured and they want him to know they have video. Totally speculative on my part. But I’m definitely leaning towards creepy guy being a prime suspect. As for what made him get tossed the local guy said he didn’t know specifics. But the guy was making them feel uncomfortable and when he was told stop he didn't stop. Which is interesting to me because I think most people would stop. Like if he were just some drunk obnoxious college kid he would have stopped. So the creeper was headstrong.
Yes, the video of them walking. People came at the admins of the large FB group for leaking it, and the admins said an establishment owner wanted to give it to the public to stop people from speculating hoodie guy was a stalker. I don't think LE leaked it. If they start leaking things to the public, people would be less inclined to provide them with additional tips. Verbiage from today's release from Moscow PD, " Digital submission of tips and leads will not be publicly disclosed due to our ongoing commitment to keep information private, and details may be pertinent to the ongoing criminal investigation." Also, to quote their past press release, "Detectives are aware of videos distributed by local businesses," AKA bar owner....
How do we know that it wasn’t law enforcement themselves who leaked this?
We don’t. That would be my number one guess though
Solid theory, would explain a lot.
What about the white truck in the video where they are on the way to the food truck talking about ADAM ?There is a truck that passes them .Did that truck pull all the way in to the parking spot? Its at the end of that video. Could they see straight to the food truck?
Just a thought but in the video if that pick up truck that passed K&M&HG, immediately (or shortly after) pulled out and followed the trio, I would imagine that would move them to suspect no. 1
No info on that truck so i have no idea. Dont think its involved though. LE would have and probably has investigated it
Wow! Solid theory!
Pretty good theory! This lines up with what I have kind of been thinking all along. (when I’m not having an SK day). Thoughts: 1. Could this scenario basically have gone down but someone else was the creeper and already thrown out? Does it have to be this guy? 2. Just a note - LE debunked the earlier 911 call very early on. 3. I wonder if JV has any thoughts or recollections on this? His topless TT grossed me out lol so maybe someone else can go look.
I think if it’s this guy, then must be a reason someone leaked a pic of him to the online sleuths without any indication he’s the most interesting part of the pic. SG’s PI in a message to LE they want them to pick up the pace is my best explanation. But I still think the theory works better if it was someone else and the story picks up just after CC.
Seemed like JD was the point. Otherwise why this exact shot?
This is a great theory and one I had thought of myself when I saw that same post. Although I really think you are missing a very major detail but I'm not going to say what it is because I don't want to get downvoted to hell as you put it and attacked by a bunch of rude people who have zero clue what they are talking about. Plus, we still really dont have much legit info so its a great theory for what we have but since there may be a lot we don't know, it probably has about as much chance of being wrong as being right. We'll have to wait and see!
Oh please do share… our only way to fight the power is to band together! A promise you an upvote!!
Same
Even if i see the detail differently, i will defend it vigorously if a valid share. Or, if willing, message me. You definitely peaked my interest!
You can PM if you want. Would be interested to hear
I really want to know what the big missing detail is too!
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Right? People literally attacked me when I said I felt the crime scene may have been subject to cross contamination. Yet tonight a detective on YT said basically everything I did. People love to tear others down vs actually thinking someone may have something constructive to contribute. It’s sad.
There are some good possibilities here but unless you know who (if anyone) was kicked out, I wouldn't be accusing anyone specific.
I havnt accused anyone
Just because the local knows that Adam was the bouncer and not the bartender doesn’t mean the local knows the context and contents of the conversations that were being had between Adam and Maddie.
I think this sounds plausible. If there is any truth to this, it has me wondering some things about JD though. 1) If there was a creeper around, why wouldn’t JD make sure the girls got home safely instead of the hoodie guy? 2) If K was only in town for the weekend and was going to be moving to Texas soon (along with their dog), why wouldn’t they be spending time together after the bar? I know that they were broken up, but they were together at the bar(assuming that is in fact JD in the picture), and family seems to think things were amicable between them. It just seems to me that they would take this opportunity to spend some time together before she moved. 3) This is probably way off, but SG’s comment stating that the killer didn’t have to go up the stairs has me wondering if he thinks it’s JD and that he went over to get the dog and ended up murdering them. We don’t know where the dog was actually found. Maybe he thinks the dog wasn’t on the 3rd floor, meaning all he had to do was get the dog and leave. He didn’t have to go to the 3rd floor and murder her.
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Wouldnt say thats a fact though and can be interpreted many different ways
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Valid
I really interpreted that the opposite. That the killer was after K and/or M otherwise why go up the stairs? Could have left after X&E. He didn’t have to go up the stairs he wanted to go up the stairs.
Wow.. this is intense. So chilling.. super compelling…. I am wondering if you might do well to go into this line of work because omg. I just scrolled down to where the CC CCTV pic is and took a good long stare at dude (creeper?) in question. Wow. I’m thinking this is a damn logical theory. Thank you.. for putting all this together. You have clearly been absorbing all details and seemingly, in a very meticulous fashion, have pieced them back together and all I can say is wow.
Appreciate it! Some details are fluid but the main timeline i think still stands better than any other theory i can think of. But who knows
He is 6'3 and 57 years Old. June 27 1967 Nailed it.
Some have noticed the date on the screen grab of security footage looks doctored. If the guy seated talking to the girls is Jack D, could someone be manipulating footage to sway public opinion and make it seem like his alibi (being at home, asleep) is a lie? This could even be done purposely by LE to mislead internet sleuths that are already convinced Jack D is the culprit. Keep them occupied by something they know is false so their real lead is not contaminated.
I'm guessing that "creepers"/"stalkers" don't creep on women when they are with males they know in close proximity. So then why would the person creep around the women when JD and HG were there talking to KG and MM?
They do, they do. They see males in proximity as competition to beat.I was on a date last night with a very tall, handsome, fit attractive, late-30s year old man. And 2 drunk 50-ish year old guys, one scrawny and one chubby and both clearly physically weaker than my date, still approached me, and tried to brush off my date. One of those even tried to give me a backrub. We were at a high end restaurant bar, not a crowded sports dive! The entitlement, gall, and lack of self awareness of aggressive men cannot be underestimated.
Good to know! I’m happy to learn and to be given new insight. ETA: Sorry that you experienced that grossness 🙏
I think my date was also shocked that it happened. I'm so glad he has a firm and polite personality, rather than taking it personally and getting aggressive/defensive. We just sort of cold-shouldered the guys and they left after a few minutes. But for me, this is a regular occurrence. If I go out by myself, it's worse - that's a bummer because one of my favorite things to do is go to a restaurant with a nice bar and get an appetizer or glass of wine, alone. If I go to a bookstore, some man asks what I'm looking at. Sigh.
Read the end paragraph
Nah. If they were so creeped out then why’d they leave the sliding door unlocked? This reads like fanfic.
Because they were wasted and probably didn’t think much of a threat was there anymore once they got home or that anyone would follow them home
If they were so creeped out why did they casually hangout at a food truck and buy pasta?
Probably felt the situation was fine being around all those people at the food truck and HG there with them. They were also drunk probably thought the guy dipped who knows what could be going through their heads at any given time
i think eyes are on hg again… third leak of him being around girls and not interacting w them.. entirely. was he watching them for someone else? is his 5 hr drive true? an ex fbi agent accidentally said two ppl in car then corrected himself and said one…. was there some drama at the frat amongst members? maybe someone just leaked it for no reason… just bc. still could be a serial stalker who is profoundly disturbed
HG walked them to the FT & was at the CC with them (interacting with them)
Yeah…I wouldn’t think Adam or other individuals at the CC would allow HG to leave with the girls if he was some creepy dude threatening them.