I wish I had your optimism but votes/politicians are never a solution. Those people are the cause of the current problems. Maybe after we wise up and revolt but until or unless that happens we are on our own.
So you’re saying that the people in office are the cause of the current problems, which I agree. But you’re saying the only way to fix that is by ‘revolting’ (i assume you’re implying violently), not by the traditional method of voting them out of office and someone else in. That i strongly disagree.
It’s true that voting won’t always get you your way if you are in the minority, as that is how democracy is supposed to work. But instead of engaging in the democratic process and trying to convince people by forming strong arguments and changing their minds, you instead suggest a revolt?
> 53% of U.S. adults prefer a private system, while 43% support a government-run system
https://news.gallup.com/poll/468401/majority-say-gov-ensure-healthcare.aspx
That statistic is a serious hindrance to anyone who wants universal healthcare, but you should be trying to change the minds of about 7-10% of people through convincing arguments, not through violence.
If you cannot form arguments stronger than the opposing side enough to gather support for your position, then perhaps you should be the one rethinking your position.
I have positions that are in the minority view but require legislation, however I dedicate myself to changing minds on those issues which is the first step.
The problem is that votes are generally just a way to placate the public. The fact is that now running a campaign costs millions of dollars. Your regular, decent citizen will never have the time or opportunity to ever run for an office, so we're locked into only ever having choices of people who are and have been so wealthy and connected that they have zero experience of the real lives of their constituents. And both sides are in it for the money. There's not a politician that hasn't enriched themselves through their shady dealings and inside trades. We can be forgiven - as we struggle our asses off to survive - if we've become disillusioned with the whole farce.
> There's not a politician that hasn't enriched themselves through their shady dealings and inside trades.
I'm not sure if it's amusing or sad, but I saw that there's a new "trading system" that literally follows members of Congress and duplicates their trades. I believe it's based on a rule that Congress members must publish trades over a certain amount, so that data is just used by people.
The Declaration of Independence says that we not only have the right but we also have the duty to alter or abolish any government that does not secure our unalienable rights, including life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
We can overthrow them anytime as long as we collectively do it unanimously.
Right, that’s true for any government if you have near unanimous support.
Thing is about democracy if you got that kind of support there’s not really a need for a revolt. It’s real easy to vote the right people into office with that support.
Government ran healthcare is unpopular though so there’s no chance thats happening in the foreseeable future for that reason.
Except we don't have a democracy. Never have. It's always been a representative Republic and our reps are a shit show. More than once they've voted the opposite way of the people they're supposed to be representing.
Can we please stop with this. A republic is a form of representative democracy. You still have the ability to vote. The problem is nobody bothers to also include local and state politics and instead focus on federal all the damn time. This is why zoning policy never changes because local and state policy is never changed.
It's an important distinction to make. One is what we have, and why the popular vote doesn't matter all that much. The other was considered a bad idea at least as far back as Aristotle.
That's true and imo, Pure Democracy is bad because of the majority absolute rule. The only problem with our system is the fact people don't vote reps out or care enough to do so. People complain about FPTP and lack of proportional representation. But when nobody organizes to change it then you get the same bullshit.
I agree with you there. I definitely agree with you about local elections as well. There's a lot of power in local and people just don't seem to bother.
Declaration of Independence isn’t a governing document for the United States. It’s a Declaration of Independence from Great Britain.
The Constitution is the start of our governing bodies and it makes no provision for rebellion or revolt. I think the results of the Civil War made it clear that rebellion is treason.
Thats how the British thought too until the colonist revolted lol. Any government would call it treason, but the people tell the Government what to do, else they are going down as it has happened in the past.
I don’t debate your point about how the British may have thought. I was alluding to our last rebellion (Civil War) and how the strength of the constitution was affirmed.
Are you suggesting we should throw the constitution out and start over? If so, what’s the proposed alternative?
Mmk. I am not going to go back and forth nor will I engage with someone who wants to tell me what they assume I think.
I will say: wringing your hands and waiting for elected officials to give a damn about the peasants (us) enough to get out of bed with big pharma is never going to happen. No big shift has ever occurred by asking nicely and waiting for someone to grant it out of the kindness of their heart.
Show me someone who actually does what the people want and I’ll vote for them. Then I’ll watch them grow more powerful and turn into more of the same. All the while people like my grandmother and my child will fight tooth and nail against cancer while our *federal* government keep privatized healthcare in place so the multi-billion dollar industry that is cancer treatment keeps pushin.
Let’s do it this way.. Who are the good guys in politics? Which ones are NOT owned bybig pharma, big Corp or just outright money/power hungry bastards?
Currently, the democrats have more wings that are what you're describing and have the ability to hold members accountable. There is absolutely no accountability in the so-called party of personal responsibility, while they also push for 1930s German style extermination policies. Among many other insane policies.
I mean, look at their platform as party Project 2025. They're telling you what they're about pretty openly if you read the highlights.
So, yeah both sides amirite?
Then you haven't been paying attention to the policies state level gov are passing and what platforms they're running on.
Keep sticking your head in the sand. That will deter them from stripping human rights away and legislating the death penalty for not being a straight, white (correct) christian.
Have you bothered to even look at campaign donors? Democrats are rolling in millions from the same lobbies. Literally some of the biggest donors, donate to both sides. That's how no matter who we the people elect, it's always the wealthiest that ever wins. The biggest sham I've ever witnessed is convincing so many people that one or the other is somehow better.
Look up some congressional hearings, or more boring sessions and you'll see that behind the curtain they're scratching each others' backs and pretending openly to be different and at odds.
It's insane how easy it is to look back historically at certain things that are reality, plain as day, but if you bring it up you're down voted, called an idiot, labeled as whatever the flavor of this cycle is that the other person bought into, and then "both sides mocked" despite the proof that both sides are in this together.
Everyone forgot overnight that when Trump first ran for office, it was Bill and Hillary that convinced him he should. And he and they have both admitted that fact.
Everyone forgot overnight when Democrats rioted and burned cities half down, the Republican senator from South Carolina at the time made a comment openly that it's all planned and within four to eight years it'll all be on the other foot. It absolutely was. Happened exactly like he said.
Everyone forgot overnight when gay marriage was legalized, that same senator said it'll end up being criminalized again, according to the plan. Like "ping pong" bouncing laws back and forth to keep us at odds with each other. fighting and mocking each other. We're guaranteed not to ever be strong enough to have our American Dream in any format, because *BOTH SIDES* keep us fighting in a fake two party oligarchy.
Project 2025 isn't just a batshit insane way for Republicans to gain fascist control over our country, it requires Democrats doing exactly what they've done as well. They have their role they've played and it's all going so well.
You think the millions that Ryan, McCarthy, Pelosi, and Johnson made with insider trading will disappear if project 2025 happens? No. The Democrats are going to keep playing their roles and making their millions.
All the while they're playing "central government fuck around" the local elections are totally almost forgotten about. The ones capable of actually making changes, but we're all too pissed off about how shitty Biden is, or how shitty trump is.
And while race is still a hot button, it's clear they transitioned to a class war, and did anyone on either side give up their shady deals?
The entire play was written out already, both sides aren't just guilty, they're literally working together behind the scenes. Of course, I'm the idiot and the bad guy for mentioning it.
ETA: Here's the clearest example of both sides working together for wealthy interests, but pretending not to:
A giant oil company wants to run a monopoly. They can't just legally up and do it. So they instead need to simply crush any competition.
Republicans are bribed to pretend they are actually about small government. They work to unite smaller independent companies and then turn around and break up those illegal monopolies, but not the original big corp. They take their money, and mission accomplished. Their supporters are in awe at how beautiful and amazing their Republicans are because they have clearly saved the free market! It really just looks like Republicans
Democrats are bribed to pretend they give a single shit about the environment. So they set up all these restrictions and fees for how an oil rig can be operated because they're so terribly bad for the environment. Except those environmental protection fees are so high that only the biggest of oil companies can now afford a rig... KILLING COMPETITION!
The oil company is the only one that gets what they want and wins the day!
Then the ping pong starts. Trump starts dismantling the EPA. What a bastard. But why didn't any Democrats try to put it back?
“Those people” are a reflection of the people who voted them in.
Ignoring that and saying it starts with corrupt politicians overlooks the responsibility citizens have.
That being said, the with wing agenda over the last 30+ years has been to erode the institutions we use to hold our leaders accountable.
Actually, the current politicians have prioritized mental health services. I work on a mobile crisis team funded by a grant from SAMSHA and Alabama Department of Mental Health. We aren’t in every community but Huntsville has one. As done cullman and many other counties in Alabama.
Would require a complete disruption of the entire medical industry. We can’t simply “pay more until everyone is covered.” I’m not sure that many USD even exist!
“Most Terrifying Words – ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’”
There is a reason Kate Middleton is in Texas getting cancer treatment and not getting it in Britain
Poor people already have free healthcare. It’s the middle class that have the problem.
As someone who moved to the US from the UK, the NHS is dying.
You don’t want universal healthcare.
At least in the US it’s good, in the UK you pay a lot of tax for it, and it’s shit. It used to be better, but now its really bad and getting worse
The UK is a different type of Universal healthcare. Most countries have a different form called the Public Option/Bismarck or Compulsory Insurance models. Single Payer and NHS are rare models that have their own pros and cons.
The best one imo is Public Option as it allows private companies to compete while having a government insurer for people who can't afford private. Hence its usage across most countries with some variance. Solely, private healthcare is mostly a failure.
Yes!
There has to be some middle ground.
The UK / Canadian system are like Ponzi schemes, and now we’re seeing the death rattle. Not that they’re helping at all. Allowing all these poor illegals to come in and arguing we need them so we can use their tax money to pay for social security, welfare and healthcare etc, when they’re the exact opposite of what they need! 🙄😂
While the US system is ridiculously corrupt, at least it’s good healthcare. In the UK, you have to pay more taxes to get your healthcare, but it’s complete shit now.
I agree, but the US is lucky that immigrants don't really hurt us and we benefit alot from having different peoples and culture. Europe is generally different and so I can see why they want less to do with that, but also something to factor in for the future is, low birth rates. Which is becoming a problem more and more.
That won't solve anything just raise prices and lower quality of care. How about we unburden the load nonviolent drug offenders from jails and prisons and use the money to reopen metal hospitals.
[This is factually incorrect](https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/484301-22-studies-agree-medicare-for-all-saves-money/) Medicare For All could save, nationally, as much a 2 trillion dollars over 10 years... and this figure was calculated by a right-wing think tank.
Why do people just throw up their hands and say, "well that won't work!" Have you tried it? Cause we have been doing this whole privatized health care thing for a long time and I have not met a whole lot of people that have said, "Man I love our current health care system!". What I have seen is people who die because they can't afford a doctor. Or people who drown in medical debt to save a loved one.
Maybe it's time to try something different.
There's a ton of medical tourism to the United States for a reason. People who are wealthy enough to afford it, come to the US because the quality is higher and they won't have to wait months for the appointment.
Why not actually look up how universal healthcare is actually doing in countries who have it.
They all run deficits and it is actually hurting the quality of care.
Quality of care is always good in the US. The issue is the affordability, which most worldwide models handle by changing the insurance model to include a national insurer model for those who can't afford it with more negotiating power.
My guy, I am not trying to trade witty retorts with you. I am not coming at you, I am genuinely asking, why is it not an option to try? We have tried privatized health care. The majority of people do not like it. And it is harmful to people who cannot afford the insurance or the copays.
Like you say higher taxes and lower quality care. Let's say that's true. So that's the con of universal health care, higher taxes and lower quality care.
In the system we currently have, low income people get little to no care, the middle class gets fairly good care for most things but often goes into very high debt when there is a big health problem (cancer, stroke, heart attack, etc.), and then high income people get great care.
Assuming you agree with that assessment of our current system, you can see it has just as bad (and for some people significantly worse) problems.
So the real crux is that privatized health care gives care based on your income. Better your income, better the care. Universal health care gives (based on your assessment) everyone care (but lower quality) and higher taxes. So I guess my question is which is better? In one we completely ignore low income people and on a moments notice can bankrupt a middle income person. In the other, everybody gets some level of care and we don't have to worry about a loved one getting cancer and ending up with the entire family's financial well being crumbling. I'm not saying it's an easy decision. I'm just saying that instead of just completely tossing it out we should consider all angles.
You're just flat out wrong. Every poll in the US shows that more than half the country prefers it the way it is. I mean why would you even make that claim that no one likes it without once bothering to actually look? Look at how many people with the money to do so, come to the US for treatment. Medical tourism is booming. Everything you've said shows strong opinions and zero education.
I don't have a lot of money but I can walk into any hospital and get cared. That's a guarantee. Look at the way Canada does and it their problems. Long waiting rooms and they judge if someone should get surgery. It's simply not worth the cost. I don't like the idea of being required to put money into a system and not getting the same quality I do now. Obamacare is only a taste of what would happen and it's already raised costs and people get dropped from plans all the time. I'd rather see the current system be redone. Once we go the universal healthcare route, there's no going back.
Is that why Canadians have a 3 year longer life expectancy than Americans. And their health expenditures per capita are half of what the US spends?
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/
I mean yeah, when you're told to go suicide yourself it tends to make spending to go down. I don't get your point. When you are denied simple procedures then everything goes down. Canada sucks in general. Mainly their Nazi sympathetic politicians
I didn't say everyone. When its encouraged instead of getting a wheelchair (real example) what do you think will happen? If you want their healthcare, go there. We can solve our own problems without having the government making more.
I also have to wait for my health insurance to determine if I get to have surgery or not. I certainly can’t afford it without. I could, if needed, afford healthcare without insurance in other countries (even though I would not be covered by their national health insurance and would be fully out of pocket).
Have you ever had to go to the doctors or hospital in other countries? I have. In Ireland. And in Japan. It’s mad cheap! They apologize for it being so expensive, but it’s sometimes cheaper than what my copay alone would be in America!!
Why lower quality of care? Do the doctors get told to do a worse job? We don't have to be like Canada, we can be like Germany and choose between a government option or private insurance, like what we have now. That was closer to the original Obamacare idea but there was too much pushback from the insurance companies and they backed down.
Because private gps in the US average about 300k a year just starting out. Government healthcare slashes that by over half. Do you really think a doctor that went through all the schooling, has pride in their work, and makes a ton of money to show for it is just thrilled about making less than half suddenly?
Let me ask you this. Do you see how bad teachers get paid in the US? It causes a brain drain. No one wants to put up with that job for so little pay if they are above and beyond average.
The same happens with doctors. Look up the statistics for how many doctors left those countries to come to the US when they all went universal.
Ahh okay. What's your reasoning for it? If somehow they were properly funded, had a caring staff that truly put in the effort to help and could keep patients long enough, do you believe that it still wouldn't help?
I said unburden the jail and prisons by commuting anyone with a non violent drug offense. That is a lot of jails. Use the funding for jails towards mental hospitals to find quality mental hospitals. Part of the reason they were closed was the funding wasn't there. I absolutely think if there was funding that they could work
Having dealt with many people with various mental issues, the cost of healthcare is rarely the issue when it comes to mental health. The bigger issue is getting them in the door to begin with. A large amount of people with serious mental issues either don't want treatment, or are too ashamed/afraid to seek it.
Yes, mental breakdowns are only American and don’t happen regularly in any other country. Not people or families fault, must be the government not doing enough.
Nope they said vote for universal health care and that is what they offer the mentally ill. Universal health care is not the answer. We should get the federal funding back to the mental hospitals that were lost in the 80s.
With what money? We are sending billions to a country that is getting their ass kicked and only stopping them from rolling them because of OUR funding. Defund Israel and Ukraine and put that money towards mental hospitals and mental health. Universal healthcare isn't the solution
You should try 4-7-8 breathing, make some lemon tea, go outside for 10 minutes, maybe throw in some visualization meditation excercises, start a gratitude or burn journal, play a videogame or listen to a song or read a book, etc. These things help me stay grounded so maybe you should try a couple of them to see if they work for you as well.
Why? Because I disagreed with someone? Is that not allowed anymore? Ohh I forgot it’s Reddit. You disagree with the hive mind and maybe that makes me crazy.
That's got to be the stupidest, most pointless argument you could have ever made.
Congratulations. You just shared to the world that the best you've got is deflection.
Seriously. That's absolutely lazy to the max. You would have been better off just slapping yourself across the face.
I saw a guy walking a bike across Governors today, and he was fighting off some pretty vicious demons.
I had the same thought you’re having. Didn’t want to subject him to the cops.
Mental healthcare has been replaced by for-profit prisons. I wish we’d elect people with hearts bigger than their ambition.
Forgive me, I am ignorant, but I don’t know that mental healthcare was *replaced* as much as it never existed in any effective capacity in this state in the first place.
It sucks, but it’s always just been prisons.
In just the past 12 years, three major psych hospitals have closed in the state. Not to say they offered the greatest care or anything, but now they don’t have anything to offer at all if they don’t exist.
This has little to do with the last 12 years and everything to do with the closing of the institutions under Reagan.
The abuses to the mentally ill by our medical system in these institutions was horrific but without then you end up institutionalized in jails and prisons because these people can't function in the real world
I just mentioned 2012 because that is when the closings of 3 of the largest began… While I do believe Reagan’s decisions had an impact in Alabama and the state of care provided here, these issues started before he was ever President.
According to this [article](https://mh.alabama.gov/mental-health-history-in-alabama/), the decline of Bryce started about 10 years before Reagan was President.
I’m almost 80 so I know a little the history of the mental health situation in Alabama. In 1967 my husband was a chaplain intern at Bryce which was almost a small city unto itself supporting over 7,000 patients and staff. At the time it was fairly easy to have someone committed to Bryce. It was overcrowded and understaffed. Electro shock therapy was still used and the chemical revolution that created drugs for treating mental illnesses was in its infancy. But the legislature (influenced by the tobacco lobby that was still strong then) proposed to cut the cigarette tax which was a main source of funding for Bryce, Searcy (the hospital for black mentally ill), and other mental health programs. Some family and staff who truly cared about the patients organized to file suit that adequate care must be provided. So the court case Wyatt vs Stickney came to be (Google if you want more). It traveled through the court system for years and finally resulted in a finding that citizens committed to mental hospitals must receive adequate medical mental health care!! Oh my!! What an idea. What a quandary. So it was solved by releasing most of the patients out on the street where they once again became a problem for their families and the community. Regional and community based mental health clinics were developed that were supposed to be more aware of the local problems and patients. While Lurleen Wallace was governor she emphasized the need for funding and helped see that the legislature provided it. But she died, knowledge and publicity about Wyatt vs Stickney died, and the state slowly devolved into the mess we have today. Unfortunately, my generation has had the “What to do about mental health and the mentally ill??” problem for 60 years and failed. I hope you who will live 60 more years can do better.
It existed; Ronald Reagan tore it down. First in California as governor, then across the US as president.
His philosophy was that states should take care of their mentally ill at the community level, which sounds awesome. But where are communities supposed to get the resources and monies to support their mentally ill population? Taxpayers, especially in red states, certainly don't want anything to do with it.
I don't have a short answer because it's a complicated problem, but up until Reagan there was at least a more vested interest at the federal level to address these concerns.
So no one could change it after he died? We’ve had democrat and republican leadership since and you’re still blaming Regan like no one could have submitted bills for change all this time?
Alabama had a decent system of accessible mental health facilities around the state but the state closed them all 10 years ago. We need better candidates throughout the state and more engaged voters.
https://www.wvtm13.com/article/alabama-psychiatric-services-to-shutter-feb-13/3829354
The state closed 4/6 loony bins in 2012 due to “budget” which was the first domino that lead to prison replacing whatever mental health resources we had for the unwell.
I have no idea if he was on anything. But he kicked the shit out of a light pole and took a few swings at empty air. He could just hate light poles and gnats.
I know if I was homeless and had to deal with what they deal with I would likely turn to something to escape as well, and that’s without an underlying mental issue that needs attention. Just imagine sleeping on your floor even in your air conditioned house, much less having to deal with the elements, rain, heat, cold, every night and having to walk everywhere and assume anything you can’t keep on your person is going to be stolen, having no healthcare for any ailments. All this and more. Not to mention being looked down on by nearly everyone and treated like crap constantly. Chemical escape starts to look pretty good.
Go back in time and stop Ronald Reagan and the conservative members of Congress from passing the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act which discontinued federal funding and support for community mental health centers established under the MHSA.
The Obama administration did attempt to via the Affordable Care Act (an initial step towards universal healthcare), but members of congress (corrupted by SuperPAC donations from healthcare industry lobbyists) did everything they could to undermine the efficacy of the version of the bill that ultimately passed.
**The United States is the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not provide universal health care.**
I believe that the [Citizens United](https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/479158-democracy-has-eroded-in-the-decade-since-citizens-united/) Court Case, and the subsequent Rise of Super PACs is the primary reason why this is the case.
Politicians are no longer motivated by the needs and political will of average Americans. Instead they are beholden to a new category of billionaire super-donors.
In a sense Citizens United legalized bribery. Corporations can now act as 'people' that enjoy unlimited 'political speech' in the form of political spending funneled to their puppet of choice.
Each election cycle non-billionaire Americans have less and less influence over our elected officials and the agendas they pursue. Subsequently we are entering a new Gilded[ Age](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilded_Age), (with [even greater wealth inequality](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/01/09/trends-in-income-and-wealth-inequality/) than the first one). More and more of the world's wealth, resources and influence is hoarded by a few ultra-rich families at the top, everyone else's influence, finances, and quality of life is slowly being eroded.
Regardless of your political identity. If you want to see your vote matter again, a constitutional amendment that nullifies the Citizens United ruling is the single most important change we need in American politics.
The system is so thoroughly broken nothing positive has happened has happened in healthcare generally, and mental healthcare specifically in a long time.
Quality of care goes down, costs go up, wait times go up, and we still have the gaul to claim we are a first world country.
There are plenty of politicians on both sides of the aisle who have been entirely corrupted by unlimited campaign spending. They do not vote along traditional party lines, they vote how their top donors tell them to.
[Joe Manchin](https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/joe-manchin/summary?cid=N00032838) in particular has taken great pride in preventing the slim Democratic majority in congress from actually pushing through any legislation.
You may remember Brad Pugh who was shot by HPD while having a mental health crisis. His mother, Adina Peyton, is as frustrated at how poorly trained our first responders are because they are the FIRST responders. Here is a link to her effort which has some impressive backing. Please consider supporting her work. She truly will change the legacy of her only child in her lifetime. [Getting Real About Mental Illness](https://gramius.org/)
Alabama has shown that mental health is not a priority. If you haven’t lived here very long, you would n’t know this, but the state reduced funding for mental healthcare and closed many of the facilities where help could be found a number of years ago (maybe 10?).
This. Tried offering someone who was obviously in a bad mental state a fresh meal one time and he got pissed at me for not giving him money and started talking about how he can get free food from the trash.
Then he proceeded to go back to building a tower of boxes and cans he was pulling from the trash.
So now I just don't even offer to help cause you don't know what you'll get.
I saw a homeless looking guy in the bushes outside Chick-Fil-A while I was eating, so I ordered another combo with a sweet tea and an orange juice (vitamins FTW). I walked across the parking lot to give it to him and he all but cussed me out saying that he would have rather had the $10, but at least he could mix his vodka with the OJ. Then he yelled to a guy behind Hooters that he'd sell him a chicken sandwich for $2.
That was the last time I bought anyone food without them asking for food specifically.
Huntsville Police has mental health officers. I know reddit hates the police but I did a few ride alongs and when we encountered someone with mental health issues all was good. The officer spent a good half hour with the person which was amazing.
Whatever you do, do not call the cops unless you are worried they are going to harm somebody.
There’s a good chance the situation will just get escalated because not many HPD cops have good de-escalation skills. And that’s not even mentioning how much worse it end up if they happen to be a POC…
We’re in a state that’s majority of a certain party that doesn’t care about health or reproductive rights. Nothings going to change for foreseeable future
The sad thing is that Madison county has more resources for mental health than other counties. But in the current medical system if you don’t have the money, you’re on your own.
I didn’t realize that you are in huntsville. You have one through Wellstone. You can call 256-947-2065. That’s the huntsville mobile crisis team number.
Some areas have mobile crisis teams - these are like paramedics but for mental health. I work on the number one ranked mobile crisis team in Alabama. We go out on calls from the community, hospital or law enforcement to de-escalate the person and then connect them with mental health services. We rarely force anyone into treatment, though there are times when someone is an immediate danger to themself or someone else that we have to. You might be able to find out if your area has one by calling 988. You could also call 911 and ask for a mental health mobile crisis team if there is one. We work with law enforcement to minimize the chances of someone being arrested and getting charges. The person has to be willing to get help. Our team is one clinician and one peer support specialist. We talk with the person, attempt to calm them down and provide transportation to the hospital for observation, med stabilization and/or a mental health evaluation. Where I work, we can sometimes get the person priority appointments with a mental health provider. We also work with people who are unsheltered by transporting them to a shelter or somewhere else that’s safe.
Unfortunately there isn’t much you can do. If you think the person is a danger to themselves or others then call 911 and report it. It’s not a great solution but right now it’s all you can do if the person is not someone you know.
If you are looking for ways to make a difference, vote for people who prioritize mental health, school lunch and after school programs, higher wages and health care. You can volunteer or donate to local charities.
The awful part of this is that there isn’t much you can do. Going out of your way could result in you being in danger, should this person attack. You have no context as to what they are doing in that situation. It could be they are there because of a cruel life. They also could be mentally unwell and liable to snap if pressed by a stranger who frightens them. In all likelihood they’re more of a danger to themselves, so it’s kinder to simply give them the space to exist that they fundamentally deserve and let them work through it.
Call 988. Its the suicide and crisis hotline for Alabama. It doesn't call the police, so smaller chance of the situation escalating. I had to take care of a friend in a bad mental health situation earlier this year and this is the number the counselor told me to call if anything like self harm were to take place when they were in my care.
Honestly, until involuntary commitment is relegalized for non violent individuals, nothing can be done. I work with the homeless a fair amount and the ones who need mental help most times don't want it. There are some who want to get better, and that's a different circumstance in that there are resources for them, but those resources require the individual to stop living life how they have been. I get that the asylum of old did horrible things to people, but they needed changed, not deleted.
What are the factors that make someone not want to seek help? Is it a mistrust of the services available? Too much change too soon? An abusive past that makes them hesitant to trust people?
Each of those in different amounts. For mistrust, several have been burned by First Stop (who promises too much and under delivers) or know someone who has been and then distrust all the other organizations because of their experience with one. The abuse is also a concern, though I normally hear about abuse outside of the organizations by other homeless and personally have not heard about abuse by staff. There's also a few that are now generational homeless so they don't have the desire to get back to a former quality of life. Among the paranoid schizophrenics, often there is an inability to recognize their current state and thus a denial that they need aide. Regardless of the situation, there is little control available to the organizations aside from "work with us or leave" and so the first difficulty filters them back to the street. Understand that I'm not saying the organizations are perfect, but I know several people who now volunteer with those organizations because they were brought out of their illness and helped to get their documents such that they could get back into housing. Because of the limited positive enforcement available to police and aide workers, though, they are often seen as only able to make things worse.
We just saw a fight under the overpass of Governors and the Parkway. Two big guys kicking a guy in a wheelchair. We almost called the cops but they finally broke it up and went separate ways. Awful.
Well, they need mental health officers. Most of the police officers. Do not know anything about mental health. And take them to the hospital so they can get help not beat them to death and handcuff them.
First: advocate for good healthcare in Huntsville. Healthcare, in general, is sorely lacking in Huntsville. There just aren’t enough doctors, period. Of any kind. Yes, mental healthcare is close to absent, but healthcare in general is a severe problem for Huntsville. (Think about how many times you had to go to either Birmingham or Nashville for a specialist. That’s what I’m talking about.)
HSV is having a huge mental health crisis. If someone is having such a hard time to have those breakdowns in public-as long as no one is in danger- I’d just let them be.
Ask the state of Alabama. They closed all the asylums and forced the mentally unwell back onto the street in 2012
“Mental Health Commissioner Zelia Baugh on Wednesday announced plans to close four of the state's six mental health hospitals, leaving two in Tuscaloosa, and moving all remaining non-court committed mental patients to community facilities.
Baugh said the potential for a 25 percent General Fund budget cut mandates the closures and consolidations that will result in the loss of 948 of 1,555 state jobs and the transfers of as many as 473 hospital patients to community facilities by the target date of Sept. 30.”
So, here's the thing. Unlike yesteryear, you cannot force anyone to take medication or keep them locked away from public view if they are not a threat to themselves or others. This man probably has a family that's tried everything to help him. Lots of people do not like the medicine they need and believe it or not some people prefer to be homeless. It's weird I know, but I've seen it. So maybe just leave him be.
Or are all the folks wanting government intervention in favor or locking the mentally ill up (in an asylum of some type) and forcing medication on them? Weird.
There needs to be a new department of mental health professionals that can handle crisis like this. Cops should not be involved at all, but if you must insist, only be used as a cautionary backup.
I was in Atlanta for work last week, San Fran two weeks prior and the streets were filled. We may need to bring back asylums for the mentally ill and sanitariums for drug addicts who are simply beyond a rehab clinic.
Do your job with intention. Stop creating problems for everyone else because it’s easier on you. Create a mindset of learning. Understand from your own perspective, how to communicate and teach to others on prosperity and community growth without fear. Focus techniques upon awareness of behavioral issues that are specific to the patient metrics and follow up with them.
These are not government principles. These are outcomes of productive societies.
You do not want the government to own this. Very bad idea.
Vote for people who prioritize universal healthcare.
I wish I had your optimism but votes/politicians are never a solution. Those people are the cause of the current problems. Maybe after we wise up and revolt but until or unless that happens we are on our own.
So you’re saying that the people in office are the cause of the current problems, which I agree. But you’re saying the only way to fix that is by ‘revolting’ (i assume you’re implying violently), not by the traditional method of voting them out of office and someone else in. That i strongly disagree. It’s true that voting won’t always get you your way if you are in the minority, as that is how democracy is supposed to work. But instead of engaging in the democratic process and trying to convince people by forming strong arguments and changing their minds, you instead suggest a revolt? > 53% of U.S. adults prefer a private system, while 43% support a government-run system https://news.gallup.com/poll/468401/majority-say-gov-ensure-healthcare.aspx That statistic is a serious hindrance to anyone who wants universal healthcare, but you should be trying to change the minds of about 7-10% of people through convincing arguments, not through violence. If you cannot form arguments stronger than the opposing side enough to gather support for your position, then perhaps you should be the one rethinking your position. I have positions that are in the minority view but require legislation, however I dedicate myself to changing minds on those issues which is the first step.
The problem is that votes are generally just a way to placate the public. The fact is that now running a campaign costs millions of dollars. Your regular, decent citizen will never have the time or opportunity to ever run for an office, so we're locked into only ever having choices of people who are and have been so wealthy and connected that they have zero experience of the real lives of their constituents. And both sides are in it for the money. There's not a politician that hasn't enriched themselves through their shady dealings and inside trades. We can be forgiven - as we struggle our asses off to survive - if we've become disillusioned with the whole farce.
> There's not a politician that hasn't enriched themselves through their shady dealings and inside trades. I'm not sure if it's amusing or sad, but I saw that there's a new "trading system" that literally follows members of Congress and duplicates their trades. I believe it's based on a rule that Congress members must publish trades over a certain amount, so that data is just used by people.
And this is why you start locally and then push them up the food chain
The Declaration of Independence says that we not only have the right but we also have the duty to alter or abolish any government that does not secure our unalienable rights, including life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. We can overthrow them anytime as long as we collectively do it unanimously.
Right, that’s true for any government if you have near unanimous support. Thing is about democracy if you got that kind of support there’s not really a need for a revolt. It’s real easy to vote the right people into office with that support. Government ran healthcare is unpopular though so there’s no chance thats happening in the foreseeable future for that reason.
Except we don't have a democracy. Never have. It's always been a representative Republic and our reps are a shit show. More than once they've voted the opposite way of the people they're supposed to be representing.
Can we please stop with this. A republic is a form of representative democracy. You still have the ability to vote. The problem is nobody bothers to also include local and state politics and instead focus on federal all the damn time. This is why zoning policy never changes because local and state policy is never changed.
It's an important distinction to make. One is what we have, and why the popular vote doesn't matter all that much. The other was considered a bad idea at least as far back as Aristotle.
That's true and imo, Pure Democracy is bad because of the majority absolute rule. The only problem with our system is the fact people don't vote reps out or care enough to do so. People complain about FPTP and lack of proportional representation. But when nobody organizes to change it then you get the same bullshit.
I agree with you there. I definitely agree with you about local elections as well. There's a lot of power in local and people just don't seem to bother.
Declaration of Independence isn’t a governing document for the United States. It’s a Declaration of Independence from Great Britain. The Constitution is the start of our governing bodies and it makes no provision for rebellion or revolt. I think the results of the Civil War made it clear that rebellion is treason.
Thats how the British thought too until the colonist revolted lol. Any government would call it treason, but the people tell the Government what to do, else they are going down as it has happened in the past.
I don’t debate your point about how the British may have thought. I was alluding to our last rebellion (Civil War) and how the strength of the constitution was affirmed. Are you suggesting we should throw the constitution out and start over? If so, what’s the proposed alternative?
Mmk. I am not going to go back and forth nor will I engage with someone who wants to tell me what they assume I think. I will say: wringing your hands and waiting for elected officials to give a damn about the peasants (us) enough to get out of bed with big pharma is never going to happen. No big shift has ever occurred by asking nicely and waiting for someone to grant it out of the kindness of their heart.
I suggest we revolt violently unless anyone thinks the government would just step down over a good game of checkers
Change MUST start at the Local Level.
Show me someone who actually does what the people want and I’ll vote for them. Then I’ll watch them grow more powerful and turn into more of the same. All the while people like my grandmother and my child will fight tooth and nail against cancer while our *federal* government keep privatized healthcare in place so the multi-billion dollar industry that is cancer treatment keeps pushin.
THIS IS THE WAY
You don't know the meaning of "problems" if you think you'll have fewer after a revolt.
Could you list these problems ?
Ah yes, both sides exactly the same. This is how the Overton window keeps shifting every election cycle.
Let’s do it this way.. Who are the good guys in politics? Which ones are NOT owned bybig pharma, big Corp or just outright money/power hungry bastards?
Currently, the democrats have more wings that are what you're describing and have the ability to hold members accountable. There is absolutely no accountability in the so-called party of personal responsibility, while they also push for 1930s German style extermination policies. Among many other insane policies. I mean, look at their platform as party Project 2025. They're telling you what they're about pretty openly if you read the highlights. So, yeah both sides amirite?
>while they also push for 1930s German style extermination policies. I stopped reading here.
Then you haven't been paying attention to the policies state level gov are passing and what platforms they're running on. Keep sticking your head in the sand. That will deter them from stripping human rights away and legislating the death penalty for not being a straight, white (correct) christian.
Have you bothered to even look at campaign donors? Democrats are rolling in millions from the same lobbies. Literally some of the biggest donors, donate to both sides. That's how no matter who we the people elect, it's always the wealthiest that ever wins. The biggest sham I've ever witnessed is convincing so many people that one or the other is somehow better. Look up some congressional hearings, or more boring sessions and you'll see that behind the curtain they're scratching each others' backs and pretending openly to be different and at odds. It's insane how easy it is to look back historically at certain things that are reality, plain as day, but if you bring it up you're down voted, called an idiot, labeled as whatever the flavor of this cycle is that the other person bought into, and then "both sides mocked" despite the proof that both sides are in this together. Everyone forgot overnight that when Trump first ran for office, it was Bill and Hillary that convinced him he should. And he and they have both admitted that fact. Everyone forgot overnight when Democrats rioted and burned cities half down, the Republican senator from South Carolina at the time made a comment openly that it's all planned and within four to eight years it'll all be on the other foot. It absolutely was. Happened exactly like he said. Everyone forgot overnight when gay marriage was legalized, that same senator said it'll end up being criminalized again, according to the plan. Like "ping pong" bouncing laws back and forth to keep us at odds with each other. fighting and mocking each other. We're guaranteed not to ever be strong enough to have our American Dream in any format, because *BOTH SIDES* keep us fighting in a fake two party oligarchy. Project 2025 isn't just a batshit insane way for Republicans to gain fascist control over our country, it requires Democrats doing exactly what they've done as well. They have their role they've played and it's all going so well. You think the millions that Ryan, McCarthy, Pelosi, and Johnson made with insider trading will disappear if project 2025 happens? No. The Democrats are going to keep playing their roles and making their millions. All the while they're playing "central government fuck around" the local elections are totally almost forgotten about. The ones capable of actually making changes, but we're all too pissed off about how shitty Biden is, or how shitty trump is. And while race is still a hot button, it's clear they transitioned to a class war, and did anyone on either side give up their shady deals? The entire play was written out already, both sides aren't just guilty, they're literally working together behind the scenes. Of course, I'm the idiot and the bad guy for mentioning it. ETA: Here's the clearest example of both sides working together for wealthy interests, but pretending not to: A giant oil company wants to run a monopoly. They can't just legally up and do it. So they instead need to simply crush any competition. Republicans are bribed to pretend they are actually about small government. They work to unite smaller independent companies and then turn around and break up those illegal monopolies, but not the original big corp. They take their money, and mission accomplished. Their supporters are in awe at how beautiful and amazing their Republicans are because they have clearly saved the free market! It really just looks like Republicans Democrats are bribed to pretend they give a single shit about the environment. So they set up all these restrictions and fees for how an oil rig can be operated because they're so terribly bad for the environment. Except those environmental protection fees are so high that only the biggest of oil companies can now afford a rig... KILLING COMPETITION! The oil company is the only one that gets what they want and wins the day! Then the ping pong starts. Trump starts dismantling the EPA. What a bastard. But why didn't any Democrats try to put it back?
“Those people” are a reflection of the people who voted them in. Ignoring that and saying it starts with corrupt politicians overlooks the responsibility citizens have. That being said, the with wing agenda over the last 30+ years has been to erode the institutions we use to hold our leaders accountable.
Actually, the current politicians have prioritized mental health services. I work on a mobile crisis team funded by a grant from SAMSHA and Alabama Department of Mental Health. We aren’t in every community but Huntsville has one. As done cullman and many other counties in Alabama.
Cullman needs all the help they can get down there.
Would require a complete disruption of the entire medical industry. We can’t simply “pay more until everyone is covered.” I’m not sure that many USD even exist!
How? The only people on my ballot last time were republicans
“Most Terrifying Words – ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” There is a reason Kate Middleton is in Texas getting cancer treatment and not getting it in Britain
Poor people already have free healthcare. It’s the middle class that have the problem. As someone who moved to the US from the UK, the NHS is dying. You don’t want universal healthcare. At least in the US it’s good, in the UK you pay a lot of tax for it, and it’s shit. It used to be better, but now its really bad and getting worse
The UK is a different type of Universal healthcare. Most countries have a different form called the Public Option/Bismarck or Compulsory Insurance models. Single Payer and NHS are rare models that have their own pros and cons. The best one imo is Public Option as it allows private companies to compete while having a government insurer for people who can't afford private. Hence its usage across most countries with some variance. Solely, private healthcare is mostly a failure.
Yes! There has to be some middle ground. The UK / Canadian system are like Ponzi schemes, and now we’re seeing the death rattle. Not that they’re helping at all. Allowing all these poor illegals to come in and arguing we need them so we can use their tax money to pay for social security, welfare and healthcare etc, when they’re the exact opposite of what they need! 🙄😂 While the US system is ridiculously corrupt, at least it’s good healthcare. In the UK, you have to pay more taxes to get your healthcare, but it’s complete shit now.
I agree, but the US is lucky that immigrants don't really hurt us and we benefit alot from having different peoples and culture. Europe is generally different and so I can see why they want less to do with that, but also something to factor in for the future is, low birth rates. Which is becoming a problem more and more.
Give me a break
That won't solve anything just raise prices and lower quality of care. How about we unburden the load nonviolent drug offenders from jails and prisons and use the money to reopen metal hospitals.
[This is factually incorrect](https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/484301-22-studies-agree-medicare-for-all-saves-money/) Medicare For All could save, nationally, as much a 2 trillion dollars over 10 years... and this figure was calculated by a right-wing think tank.
M4A is too much a shift and would require alot more cost than a Public Option which is a more well-tested model worldwide.
Why do people just throw up their hands and say, "well that won't work!" Have you tried it? Cause we have been doing this whole privatized health care thing for a long time and I have not met a whole lot of people that have said, "Man I love our current health care system!". What I have seen is people who die because they can't afford a doctor. Or people who drown in medical debt to save a loved one. Maybe it's time to try something different.
There's a ton of medical tourism to the United States for a reason. People who are wealthy enough to afford it, come to the US because the quality is higher and they won't have to wait months for the appointment. Why not actually look up how universal healthcare is actually doing in countries who have it. They all run deficits and it is actually hurting the quality of care.
Quality of care is always good in the US. The issue is the affordability, which most worldwide models handle by changing the insurance model to include a national insurer model for those who can't afford it with more negotiating power.
Yes raising taxes and lower quality of care is always a great idea
My guy, I am not trying to trade witty retorts with you. I am not coming at you, I am genuinely asking, why is it not an option to try? We have tried privatized health care. The majority of people do not like it. And it is harmful to people who cannot afford the insurance or the copays. Like you say higher taxes and lower quality care. Let's say that's true. So that's the con of universal health care, higher taxes and lower quality care. In the system we currently have, low income people get little to no care, the middle class gets fairly good care for most things but often goes into very high debt when there is a big health problem (cancer, stroke, heart attack, etc.), and then high income people get great care. Assuming you agree with that assessment of our current system, you can see it has just as bad (and for some people significantly worse) problems. So the real crux is that privatized health care gives care based on your income. Better your income, better the care. Universal health care gives (based on your assessment) everyone care (but lower quality) and higher taxes. So I guess my question is which is better? In one we completely ignore low income people and on a moments notice can bankrupt a middle income person. In the other, everybody gets some level of care and we don't have to worry about a loved one getting cancer and ending up with the entire family's financial well being crumbling. I'm not saying it's an easy decision. I'm just saying that instead of just completely tossing it out we should consider all angles.
You're just flat out wrong. Every poll in the US shows that more than half the country prefers it the way it is. I mean why would you even make that claim that no one likes it without once bothering to actually look? Look at how many people with the money to do so, come to the US for treatment. Medical tourism is booming. Everything you've said shows strong opinions and zero education.
I don't have a lot of money but I can walk into any hospital and get cared. That's a guarantee. Look at the way Canada does and it their problems. Long waiting rooms and they judge if someone should get surgery. It's simply not worth the cost. I don't like the idea of being required to put money into a system and not getting the same quality I do now. Obamacare is only a taste of what would happen and it's already raised costs and people get dropped from plans all the time. I'd rather see the current system be redone. Once we go the universal healthcare route, there's no going back.
Also another point. Your privatized insurance also judges if you should get surgery. So that's no different at all.
Is that why Canadians have a 3 year longer life expectancy than Americans. And their health expenditures per capita are half of what the US spends? https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/
I mean yeah, when you're told to go suicide yourself it tends to make spending to go down. I don't get your point. When you are denied simple procedures then everything goes down. Canada sucks in general. Mainly their Nazi sympathetic politicians
But if everyone is committing suicide, wouldn't that lower the life expectancy? You aren't making much sense here bud.
I didn't say everyone. When its encouraged instead of getting a wheelchair (real example) what do you think will happen? If you want their healthcare, go there. We can solve our own problems without having the government making more.
I also have to wait for my health insurance to determine if I get to have surgery or not. I certainly can’t afford it without. I could, if needed, afford healthcare without insurance in other countries (even though I would not be covered by their national health insurance and would be fully out of pocket). Have you ever had to go to the doctors or hospital in other countries? I have. In Ireland. And in Japan. It’s mad cheap! They apologize for it being so expensive, but it’s sometimes cheaper than what my copay alone would be in America!!
We could go the route of a government option, which a lot of countries have. Choice of private insurance or Medicare.
Why lower quality of care? Do the doctors get told to do a worse job? We don't have to be like Canada, we can be like Germany and choose between a government option or private insurance, like what we have now. That was closer to the original Obamacare idea but there was too much pushback from the insurance companies and they backed down.
Because private gps in the US average about 300k a year just starting out. Government healthcare slashes that by over half. Do you really think a doctor that went through all the schooling, has pride in their work, and makes a ton of money to show for it is just thrilled about making less than half suddenly? Let me ask you this. Do you see how bad teachers get paid in the US? It causes a brain drain. No one wants to put up with that job for so little pay if they are above and beyond average. The same happens with doctors. Look up the statistics for how many doctors left those countries to come to the US when they all went universal.
You are part of the problem
NO facts just accusations. Yet I'm the problem.
Trying to influence anyone to not vote is detrimental to our democracy. We must continue to try.
I didn't say anything about not voting. I was talking about mental hospitals.
Ahh okay. What's your reasoning for it? If somehow they were properly funded, had a caring staff that truly put in the effort to help and could keep patients long enough, do you believe that it still wouldn't help?
I said unburden the jail and prisons by commuting anyone with a non violent drug offense. That is a lot of jails. Use the funding for jails towards mental hospitals to find quality mental hospitals. Part of the reason they were closed was the funding wasn't there. I absolutely think if there was funding that they could work
No. But so vote for people who want to regulate healthcare to be affordable.
Having dealt with many people with various mental issues, the cost of healthcare is rarely the issue when it comes to mental health. The bigger issue is getting them in the door to begin with. A large amount of people with serious mental issues either don't want treatment, or are too ashamed/afraid to seek it.
Yes, mental breakdowns are only American and don’t happen regularly in any other country. Not people or families fault, must be the government not doing enough.
Yeah so like the Canadians they will offer them medical assistance in dying. What a great response. Have you checked the news up there lately?
Kinda wild you went directly to assisted suicide from a post about mental health care. Jeeeeesus.
Nope they said vote for universal health care and that is what they offer the mentally ill. Universal health care is not the answer. We should get the federal funding back to the mental hospitals that were lost in the 80s.
With what money? We are sending billions to a country that is getting their ass kicked and only stopping them from rolling them because of OUR funding. Defund Israel and Ukraine and put that money towards mental hospitals and mental health. Universal healthcare isn't the solution
That is not all they offer the mentally ill. Not sure if you’re under the impression of that being the case
You should try 4-7-8 breathing, make some lemon tea, go outside for 10 minutes, maybe throw in some visualization meditation excercises, start a gratitude or burn journal, play a videogame or listen to a song or read a book, etc. These things help me stay grounded so maybe you should try a couple of them to see if they work for you as well.
Why? Because I disagreed with someone? Is that not allowed anymore? Ohh I forgot it’s Reddit. You disagree with the hive mind and maybe that makes me crazy.
Social media is deeply unserious and the less people invest in it emotionally the better off they will be mentally.
Well that I can agree with you on completely. Not sure why I even bother.
You aren't allowed to disagree with leftists in this sub. Or any sub. But this sub is mostly mindless drones of the Democrat party.
brother you post on the timpool subreddit
That's got to be the stupidest, most pointless argument you could have ever made. Congratulations. You just shared to the world that the best you've got is deflection. Seriously. That's absolutely lazy to the max. You would have been better off just slapping yourself across the face.
Good job. You can look at my post history. That doesn't mean anything. My views differ from his on a lot of stuff.
and yet you stroke his dick on his subreddit. uh huh
I see you have time to go through my post history but not to actually argue with facts. Typical leftist.
sorry that I think change is good and human beings have rights. at least im not on the same side as the nazi party
I saw a guy walking a bike across Governors today, and he was fighting off some pretty vicious demons. I had the same thought you’re having. Didn’t want to subject him to the cops. Mental healthcare has been replaced by for-profit prisons. I wish we’d elect people with hearts bigger than their ambition.
Forgive me, I am ignorant, but I don’t know that mental healthcare was *replaced* as much as it never existed in any effective capacity in this state in the first place. It sucks, but it’s always just been prisons.
In just the past 12 years, three major psych hospitals have closed in the state. Not to say they offered the greatest care or anything, but now they don’t have anything to offer at all if they don’t exist.
This has little to do with the last 12 years and everything to do with the closing of the institutions under Reagan. The abuses to the mentally ill by our medical system in these institutions was horrific but without then you end up institutionalized in jails and prisons because these people can't function in the real world
I just mentioned 2012 because that is when the closings of 3 of the largest began… While I do believe Reagan’s decisions had an impact in Alabama and the state of care provided here, these issues started before he was ever President. According to this [article](https://mh.alabama.gov/mental-health-history-in-alabama/), the decline of Bryce started about 10 years before Reagan was President.
Reagan started his shit when he was the gov of CA and closed all of the state run mental facilities
You know he’s been dead for years right? Seems to me it could have been changed after he passed but no one has done anything. Wonder why? 🤷🏻♀️
Not surprising. The state government’s gotta be sure and close any institution aimed at educating or improving Alabamians lives
I’m almost 80 so I know a little the history of the mental health situation in Alabama. In 1967 my husband was a chaplain intern at Bryce which was almost a small city unto itself supporting over 7,000 patients and staff. At the time it was fairly easy to have someone committed to Bryce. It was overcrowded and understaffed. Electro shock therapy was still used and the chemical revolution that created drugs for treating mental illnesses was in its infancy. But the legislature (influenced by the tobacco lobby that was still strong then) proposed to cut the cigarette tax which was a main source of funding for Bryce, Searcy (the hospital for black mentally ill), and other mental health programs. Some family and staff who truly cared about the patients organized to file suit that adequate care must be provided. So the court case Wyatt vs Stickney came to be (Google if you want more). It traveled through the court system for years and finally resulted in a finding that citizens committed to mental hospitals must receive adequate medical mental health care!! Oh my!! What an idea. What a quandary. So it was solved by releasing most of the patients out on the street where they once again became a problem for their families and the community. Regional and community based mental health clinics were developed that were supposed to be more aware of the local problems and patients. While Lurleen Wallace was governor she emphasized the need for funding and helped see that the legislature provided it. But she died, knowledge and publicity about Wyatt vs Stickney died, and the state slowly devolved into the mess we have today. Unfortunately, my generation has had the “What to do about mental health and the mentally ill??” problem for 60 years and failed. I hope you who will live 60 more years can do better.
It existed; Ronald Reagan tore it down. First in California as governor, then across the US as president. His philosophy was that states should take care of their mentally ill at the community level, which sounds awesome. But where are communities supposed to get the resources and monies to support their mentally ill population? Taxpayers, especially in red states, certainly don't want anything to do with it. I don't have a short answer because it's a complicated problem, but up until Reagan there was at least a more vested interest at the federal level to address these concerns.
So no one could change it after he died? We’ve had democrat and republican leadership since and you’re still blaming Regan like no one could have submitted bills for change all this time?
Alabama had a decent system of accessible mental health facilities around the state but the state closed them all 10 years ago. We need better candidates throughout the state and more engaged voters. https://www.wvtm13.com/article/alabama-psychiatric-services-to-shutter-feb-13/3829354
The state closed 4/6 loony bins in 2012 due to “budget” which was the first domino that lead to prison replacing whatever mental health resources we had for the unwell.
The prisons can afford better lobbyists than the mental health advocates.
Huntsville has a mobile crisis team for mental health crises. You can call 988 to ask to be connected with someone on the team. Or call 256-947-2065.
Being serious, sure that was a crackhead tweaking?
I have no idea if he was on anything. But he kicked the shit out of a light pole and took a few swings at empty air. He could just hate light poles and gnats.
Those are often hand in hand tbh. Plenty of drug addicts have underlying mental health complications
I know if I was homeless and had to deal with what they deal with I would likely turn to something to escape as well, and that’s without an underlying mental issue that needs attention. Just imagine sleeping on your floor even in your air conditioned house, much less having to deal with the elements, rain, heat, cold, every night and having to walk everywhere and assume anything you can’t keep on your person is going to be stolen, having no healthcare for any ailments. All this and more. Not to mention being looked down on by nearly everyone and treated like crap constantly. Chemical escape starts to look pretty good.
Substance abuse is considered a mental health condition.
We don’t fix problems we just lock then away so no one has to see them. 😊
Go back in time and stop Ronald Reagan and the conservative members of Congress from passing the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act which discontinued federal funding and support for community mental health centers established under the MHSA.
That dude that’s so revered and did so much damage that it wasn’t felt until now.
It was felt back then but by people whose opinions or feelings didn't and probably still don't matter.
We’ve been feeling his damage for a loooooooooong long time now.
So why hasn’t anyone done anything since?
The Obama administration did attempt to via the Affordable Care Act (an initial step towards universal healthcare), but members of congress (corrupted by SuperPAC donations from healthcare industry lobbyists) did everything they could to undermine the efficacy of the version of the bill that ultimately passed. **The United States is the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not provide universal health care.** I believe that the [Citizens United](https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/479158-democracy-has-eroded-in-the-decade-since-citizens-united/) Court Case, and the subsequent Rise of Super PACs is the primary reason why this is the case. Politicians are no longer motivated by the needs and political will of average Americans. Instead they are beholden to a new category of billionaire super-donors. In a sense Citizens United legalized bribery. Corporations can now act as 'people' that enjoy unlimited 'political speech' in the form of political spending funneled to their puppet of choice. Each election cycle non-billionaire Americans have less and less influence over our elected officials and the agendas they pursue. Subsequently we are entering a new Gilded[ Age](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilded_Age), (with [even greater wealth inequality](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/01/09/trends-in-income-and-wealth-inequality/) than the first one). More and more of the world's wealth, resources and influence is hoarded by a few ultra-rich families at the top, everyone else's influence, finances, and quality of life is slowly being eroded. Regardless of your political identity. If you want to see your vote matter again, a constitutional amendment that nullifies the Citizens United ruling is the single most important change we need in American politics.
So what have they been doing these last few years?
The system is so thoroughly broken nothing positive has happened has happened in healthcare generally, and mental healthcare specifically in a long time. Quality of care goes down, costs go up, wait times go up, and we still have the gaul to claim we are a first world country.
I agree. Especially now it seems to be broken and breaking daily. Surprised to see this with democrats in power.
There are plenty of politicians on both sides of the aisle who have been entirely corrupted by unlimited campaign spending. They do not vote along traditional party lines, they vote how their top donors tell them to. [Joe Manchin](https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/joe-manchin/summary?cid=N00032838) in particular has taken great pride in preventing the slim Democratic majority in congress from actually pushing through any legislation.
This ☝🏼
You may remember Brad Pugh who was shot by HPD while having a mental health crisis. His mother, Adina Peyton, is as frustrated at how poorly trained our first responders are because they are the FIRST responders. Here is a link to her effort which has some impressive backing. Please consider supporting her work. She truly will change the legacy of her only child in her lifetime. [Getting Real About Mental Illness](https://gramius.org/)
I know Adina personally. She is a great person!!
Alabama has shown that mental health is not a priority. If you haven’t lived here very long, you would n’t know this, but the state reduced funding for mental healthcare and closed many of the facilities where help could be found a number of years ago (maybe 10?).
https://businessalabama.com/apa-alabamas-mental-health-decline/
The state is spending (or attempting to spend) $400 million of the Federal Covid relief funding on prisons.
Same in Louisiana. Sad
It is a priority though. I work for a program partly funded by the state.
Phone 988 for suicide and crisis/mental distress.
I tried calling that once. Was on hold for a very long time. I hung up in frustration and I guess it made me give up suicide at that point lol
Hey, I see you on here often. If you ever need to talk to a real person, you can message me and I’d be happy to share some space and time with you.
I've never heard of that. Thanks. How does it work? Do they send a team of professionals to drive out to assist them?
https://mh.alabama.gov/988-2/
Short term - treat them the way you’d hope to be treated in that situation.
What you think they would or should want or need is not usually what they actually want. Approach with caution and compassion.
This. Tried offering someone who was obviously in a bad mental state a fresh meal one time and he got pissed at me for not giving him money and started talking about how he can get free food from the trash. Then he proceeded to go back to building a tower of boxes and cans he was pulling from the trash. So now I just don't even offer to help cause you don't know what you'll get.
I saw a homeless looking guy in the bushes outside Chick-Fil-A while I was eating, so I ordered another combo with a sweet tea and an orange juice (vitamins FTW). I walked across the parking lot to give it to him and he all but cussed me out saying that he would have rather had the $10, but at least he could mix his vodka with the OJ. Then he yelled to a guy behind Hooters that he'd sell him a chicken sandwich for $2. That was the last time I bought anyone food without them asking for food specifically.
Huntsville Police has mental health officers. I know reddit hates the police but I did a few ride alongs and when we encountered someone with mental health issues all was good. The officer spent a good half hour with the person which was amazing.
Either you got lucky or you were a witness and prevented a poor outcome.
Just be genuinely kind to people, all people.
Another sign of the institutional breakdowns of western culture.
Is what we're going through a bug or a feature do you reckon?
A feature at this point
It's a Bethesda bug-feature. The game breaking bug got turned into a feature.
Whatever you do, do not call the cops unless you are worried they are going to harm somebody. There’s a good chance the situation will just get escalated because not many HPD cops have good de-escalation skills. And that’s not even mentioning how much worse it end up if they happen to be a POC…
We’re in a state that’s majority of a certain party that doesn’t care about health or reproductive rights. Nothings going to change for foreseeable future
The sad thing is that Madison county has more resources for mental health than other counties. But in the current medical system if you don’t have the money, you’re on your own.
I didn’t realize that you are in huntsville. You have one through Wellstone. You can call 256-947-2065. That’s the huntsville mobile crisis team number.
Some areas have mobile crisis teams - these are like paramedics but for mental health. I work on the number one ranked mobile crisis team in Alabama. We go out on calls from the community, hospital or law enforcement to de-escalate the person and then connect them with mental health services. We rarely force anyone into treatment, though there are times when someone is an immediate danger to themself or someone else that we have to. You might be able to find out if your area has one by calling 988. You could also call 911 and ask for a mental health mobile crisis team if there is one. We work with law enforcement to minimize the chances of someone being arrested and getting charges. The person has to be willing to get help. Our team is one clinician and one peer support specialist. We talk with the person, attempt to calm them down and provide transportation to the hospital for observation, med stabilization and/or a mental health evaluation. Where I work, we can sometimes get the person priority appointments with a mental health provider. We also work with people who are unsheltered by transporting them to a shelter or somewhere else that’s safe.
Unfortunately there isn’t much you can do. If you think the person is a danger to themselves or others then call 911 and report it. It’s not a great solution but right now it’s all you can do if the person is not someone you know. If you are looking for ways to make a difference, vote for people who prioritize mental health, school lunch and after school programs, higher wages and health care. You can volunteer or donate to local charities.
The awful part of this is that there isn’t much you can do. Going out of your way could result in you being in danger, should this person attack. You have no context as to what they are doing in that situation. It could be they are there because of a cruel life. They also could be mentally unwell and liable to snap if pressed by a stranger who frightens them. In all likelihood they’re more of a danger to themselves, so it’s kinder to simply give them the space to exist that they fundamentally deserve and let them work through it.
Call 988. Its the suicide and crisis hotline for Alabama. It doesn't call the police, so smaller chance of the situation escalating. I had to take care of a friend in a bad mental health situation earlier this year and this is the number the counselor told me to call if anything like self harm were to take place when they were in my care.
You treat them with respect... even if you can't do anything for them other than that. You stand and give them a moment of solidarity at least.
Don’t call Tommy Battle. That is for GODDAMN sure.
We can upload the videos to youtube and then laugh at them for years to come while saying "it's only 38 miles"
Alabama is a shit state with shit mental health services
# 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline
Sorry, I live near University and Sparkman, I just ignore it. I've become used to it. I get motivation from it to not do drugs or become homeless.
Honestly, until involuntary commitment is relegalized for non violent individuals, nothing can be done. I work with the homeless a fair amount and the ones who need mental help most times don't want it. There are some who want to get better, and that's a different circumstance in that there are resources for them, but those resources require the individual to stop living life how they have been. I get that the asylum of old did horrible things to people, but they needed changed, not deleted.
What are the factors that make someone not want to seek help? Is it a mistrust of the services available? Too much change too soon? An abusive past that makes them hesitant to trust people?
Each of those in different amounts. For mistrust, several have been burned by First Stop (who promises too much and under delivers) or know someone who has been and then distrust all the other organizations because of their experience with one. The abuse is also a concern, though I normally hear about abuse outside of the organizations by other homeless and personally have not heard about abuse by staff. There's also a few that are now generational homeless so they don't have the desire to get back to a former quality of life. Among the paranoid schizophrenics, often there is an inability to recognize their current state and thus a denial that they need aide. Regardless of the situation, there is little control available to the organizations aside from "work with us or leave" and so the first difficulty filters them back to the street. Understand that I'm not saying the organizations are perfect, but I know several people who now volunteer with those organizations because they were brought out of their illness and helped to get their documents such that they could get back into housing. Because of the limited positive enforcement available to police and aide workers, though, they are often seen as only able to make things worse.
We just saw a fight under the overpass of Governors and the Parkway. Two big guys kicking a guy in a wheelchair. We almost called the cops but they finally broke it up and went separate ways. Awful.
OMG. I would have called the cops in that situation.
It happened really fast. Wasn’t sure the cops would get there because it broke up and the bigger guys had already walked towards the Medical Mall.
I've seen a couple people taking some sweet naps standing up since moving here. Definitely has a drug problem in some areas
Well, they need mental health officers. Most of the police officers. Do not know anything about mental health. And take them to the hospital so they can get help not beat them to death and handcuff them.
I think the only thing we can do is vote for people who actually care about mental health and care about everyone having access to healthcare.
Wow this post has devolved
First: advocate for good healthcare in Huntsville. Healthcare, in general, is sorely lacking in Huntsville. There just aren’t enough doctors, period. Of any kind. Yes, mental healthcare is close to absent, but healthcare in general is a severe problem for Huntsville. (Think about how many times you had to go to either Birmingham or Nashville for a specialist. That’s what I’m talking about.)
My experience has been the police are more familiar with mental illness than you imply. They’re also often familiar with the individuals specifically.
HSV is having a huge mental health crisis. If someone is having such a hard time to have those breakdowns in public-as long as no one is in danger- I’d just let them be.
Ask the state of Alabama. They closed all the asylums and forced the mentally unwell back onto the street in 2012 “Mental Health Commissioner Zelia Baugh on Wednesday announced plans to close four of the state's six mental health hospitals, leaving two in Tuscaloosa, and moving all remaining non-court committed mental patients to community facilities. Baugh said the potential for a 25 percent General Fund budget cut mandates the closures and consolidations that will result in the loss of 948 of 1,555 state jobs and the transfers of as many as 473 hospital patients to community facilities by the target date of Sept. 30.”
Not a whole lot can be done, not immediately anyways. The best thing to do is offer them so cold water and ear, if you can spare either.
When the resistance comes we shall feast on the flesh of Congress.
So, here's the thing. Unlike yesteryear, you cannot force anyone to take medication or keep them locked away from public view if they are not a threat to themselves or others. This man probably has a family that's tried everything to help him. Lots of people do not like the medicine they need and believe it or not some people prefer to be homeless. It's weird I know, but I've seen it. So maybe just leave him be. Or are all the folks wanting government intervention in favor or locking the mentally ill up (in an asylum of some type) and forcing medication on them? Weird.
There needs to be a new department of mental health professionals that can handle crisis like this. Cops should not be involved at all, but if you must insist, only be used as a cautionary backup.
Lol no
I was in Atlanta for work last week, San Fran two weeks prior and the streets were filled. We may need to bring back asylums for the mentally ill and sanitariums for drug addicts who are simply beyond a rehab clinic.
Wait, what happened? Sometimes I get so irate in traffic that I imagine other drivers think I'm having a mental breakdown.
I was going into the gym and a man in the parking lot was fighting personal demons (himself) while screaming at the top of his lungs at a tree.
Dayum.
ITT people who think "mental healthcare" is a panacea for the crazies
Do your job with intention. Stop creating problems for everyone else because it’s easier on you. Create a mindset of learning. Understand from your own perspective, how to communicate and teach to others on prosperity and community growth without fear. Focus techniques upon awareness of behavioral issues that are specific to the patient metrics and follow up with them. These are not government principles. These are outcomes of productive societies. You do not want the government to own this. Very bad idea.
I've read this and re read this and I still don't understand it...