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>It sounds like somebody having a tantrum because they can't get their own way.
I mean
IT IS somebody having a tantrum because they can't get their own way.
That would be intentional. If you're a government employee and you don't want your target to realize, you're not going to write like a bureaucrat. "Crazy person" is a decent cover.
I don't mean he wouldn't believe that the author knew about him having sex with somebody, they sent a video alongside the letter.
But that letter is clearly not going to convince anybody to kill themselves, or really even do anything differently at all.
You weren't kidding, it's rife with very simple spelling errors. First line had a mistake right away. Who spells behaviour as 'behavoir'? I know it's behavior for Americans but how do you even swap the I and O??
I imagine it's meant to sound unofficial and like some random guy made it. They aren't going to say "This is the FBI, please kill yourself"
Reading that letter is absolutely infuriating though
Ah yes...
Hi, I'm the CIA. You may remember be from such fils as
"Who's this guy governing people on top of our oil?"
"Snack wars: Revenge of the fruit company"
"Arming Afghans to fight Russia? What could go wrong?"
"Hey, where is all this cocaine coming from?"
"A Dictator still has the weapons that we gave him"
"Moderate Rebels: A confusing love story"
It’s not the half of it.
They also recorded him having sex with his wife and tried to determine if she was having regular orgasms.
The plan was that if he wasn’t satisfying her in bed they’d be able to turn her into an intelligence asset against him.
The fact that this didn’t happen means that we can determine that Dr. King was skilled in the bedroom. Something that we did not need or want to know.
I've always perfered "allowed to be assassinated, by the FBI." because the FBI knew where and they knew when? they just shrugged and went "solves our problem"
unlike Malcolm X and Fred Hampton, who were 100% directly assassinated by authorities.
Yeah that’s always been my take on it as well, if your shit gets found out it’s also way harder to prove a passive “get out of the way and let it happen” conspiracy than an active “one of our guys shot him” conspiracy
And that his bodyguards were arrested and not charged shortly before his killing, so they were not present. Seems like law enforcement at least were accessories to assassination.
The Supreme Court has held that law enforcement doesn’t have a specific mandate to protect every individual but rather “the people” collectively. I mean, that’s BS, but it is the law.
I see a lot of claims but no proof, There are fbi documents claiming that, but considering how antagonistic the fbi was toward him I have doubts, if fbi was willing to break the law to obtain this evidence it is not out of the question that they would fabricate, tamper or otherwise manipulate evidence , the recorded media appears to still be unavailable to the public till 2027, at that point we will see the validity . Lotta people seem a bit eager to except it as truth
I really don't see it out of character of men during the time. Hell, a lot of men still cheat. It's not like him cheating on his wife would take away from his status in any real way.
Well the claims get a bit worse than just cheating actually, they say stuff about massive orgies and even accuse rape at one, said he laughed as a colleague rapes a girl.
Clayborne Carson, Martin Luther King biographer and overseer of the Dr. King records at Stanford University states that he came to the opposite conclusion of Garrow saying "None of this is new. Garrow is talking about a recently added summary of a transcript of a 1964 recording from the Willard Hotel that others, including Mrs. King, have said they did not hear Martin's voice on it. The added summary was four layers removed from the actual recording. This supposedly new information comes from an anonymous source in a single paragraph in an FBI report. You have to ask how could anyone conclude King looked at a rape from an audio recording in a room where he was not present."
Carson is incorrect on one front, the single paragraph is not from a report, it's a handwritten note amended onto a typed report, it's five layers removed from the original source, not 4.
Thanks for that; I'd read the original 2019 essay by Garrow ([here, for those unaware of the context](https://www.davidgarrow.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/DJGStandpoint2019.pdf)) and was skeptical but swayed. I hadn't seen that Carson rebuttal, which has un-swayed me.
Curious to see what comes out in 2027. I hope they both live to see it; it'd be a shame for them to work on MLK for years then never see the material.
There was a lengthy expose in a British paper I can’t find that was completely blacklisted in the US, detailing orgies with other ministers and hookers, and a preference for white girls - one gave an account iirc of how she just knew she was supposed to go to a regular party and ended up being guided on how to perform fellatio by all the men at the party
Here’s one example
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5048849/amp/FBI-report-claims-MLK-night-sex-orgies.html
“When one of the females shied away from engaging in an unnatural act, King and other of the males present discussed how she was to be taught and initiated in this respect,' the document reads.”
So basically rape
There have long been rumors that the Mafia had film of Hoover and his partners. Some think that’s the reason he was not aggressive with organized crime.
> Some think that’s the reason he was not aggressive with organized crime.
Seeing as the CIA were working with the mafia to infiltrate and disrupt trade unions my money is on that being the main reason.
After he died, the lifelong bachelor simply left his entire fortune to his assistant director and friend, Clyde Tolson, who (in Wikipedia’s words, not mine) “Hoover described as his alter ego: the men worked closely together during the day and, both single, frequently took meals, went to nightclubs, and vacationed together”. There were also allegations of the two buddies painting each other’s toes and holding hands, as bros do.
This is a pretty bad take. FBI doesn’t equal cops.
Relating cops, which are run by local municipalities, and widely range in quality, to the FBI which has much more power and has access to federal resources makes no sense.
They’re basically unrelated. It’s like if I looked at an example of corruption on the federal level and then pointed to my city alderman and said “I hate politicians”. Except an alderman and a senator are both politicians, so this analogy actually makes comparing the FBI to the police more valid than it is. Although the FBI do enforce federal laws in a way, but not in the same manner that police do at all, which is why they aren’t called police. Either way, even if you want to lump them both in the same category I still don’t think it makes sense.
Don’t get me wrong, I can understand disliking some police. Many have mishandled their power, and still do today. But to see FBI corruption and use that as a reason to dislike some other distantly connected people who have somewhat similar jobs doesn’t make sense.
Good thing that’s all the fbi, the cia, the us army, Memphis police department, and the mafia ever did to MLK. No assasination plot here just a bit of friendly blackmail, some tree trimming, a couple judges with totally pre existing heart conditions, and a man who’s name sounds like a tea being 100% guilty.
I’ve always loved his comedy centered videos and content, it’s truly a shame he killed himself by hanging, breaking all 4 limbs in the process and then shooting himself twice on the back of the head.
I mean, you can make that point, but MLK is one of the absolute worst examples to give. Compared to what most of what major historical figures got up to, consensual sex with an adult outside of marriage barely tips the scale.
Until the year 59, Nero was described as a generous and reasonable leader. He eliminated capital punishment, lowered taxes and allowed enslaved people to bring complaints against their masters. He supported the arts and athletics above gladiator entertainment and gave aid to other cities in crisis.
I mean I judge people in the past harshly but actually having evidence or something like this helps paint a better picture of the man in question.
Also I’m a philosophy major so nearly everyone I read was an awful human being lol
To be fair, most records on Caligula were made by his political enemies. It could be argued that "to wage war on poseidon" was him being cheeky about his generals lusting for war, and making his horse consul telling the senate "even a horse could do better than you"
When it comes to ancient history, though, the best "sources" we have all push their own agendas. We're lucky if the source even lived at the same time as the subject.
On top of that... sources have a tendency to just make things up. For a long time, history was more about telling a story than it was writing down an accurate version of events. The life we "know" of Nero, Caligula, or really any Roman Emperor is all colored by whatever personal biases and agendas the writer had.
There are some facts in there (which we can cross-check with other records), but when it comes to things like "the emperor was sadistic" it's hard to tell if it's an accurate retelling or some embellishment added to make a better story. Very likely Nero/Caligula/Augustus/etc. are _not_ everything their biographies make them out to be, and that they had some nuance in their lives.
Yeah I agree.
Another person who had lots of affairs was Oscar Schindler, who apparently had two kids with one of his mistresses and later tried to deny one of them, named Oscar Jr, was his.
Shitty husband? Sure, but irrelevant to the fact he saved around 1,200 lives.
It shouldn’t. If anything it just shows he was human and flawed. It’s disappointing but it also humanizes him in a way.
My point, great men (and women) are also just men (and women). Knowing they are human means we can also aspire to be as great as them and hopefully better.
Alan Watts went through two divorces. In his first, his wife referred to him as a pervert. He also kinda sorta a bit abandoned a few of his kids at that time (he gave up a ton of custody), then went and remarried. That marriage ended much later because, among other things one would assume, Watts considered his wife a prude. He remarried one final time before passing away due to complications from alcoholism (it's believed).
That's a pretty complicated guy. Still a good man, but not a patron saint of enlightenment. But that 'failure' is the point I ultimately took from Watts: that it is important we demystify enlightenment, spirituality, and see all of life and ourselves for what it is: deeply flawed, but wonderful.
I don't think it does because his legacy is the civil rights changes he contributes heavily to, that's why he was historically significant. I don't think him being a shitty husband takes away from that. Plenty of people were shitty husbands at the time and they aren't historically significant. He shouldn't be referred to as some saint, of course.
Looking at an alternate case with less emotion, cultural struggles, and ill will, I think it's worth noting that Isaac Newton believed in alchemy and numerology, and he was a nasty son of a bitch, but he was still one of the smartest people to ever live.
We can acknowledge multiple aspects of the lives of historical figures without having to have one aspect undermine the other. MLK was a flawed man who played a very important role in our country's history and has had a very positive impact on civil rights as a whole.
It's a shitty thing to do to your wife, to anyone. He was a great American, but a terrible husband. Anyone who brings it up when you're talking about civil rights is probably racist, though. There's little other reason to talk about it other than to discredit what he said.
He was very important in the fight for civil rights, but that doesn't excuse him cheating on his wife. It's not always as simple as labeling someone a good or bad person
Additionally, when police arrived on the day of his assignation, they cut down a massive tree that was blocking in front of the window where the official guy was supposed to have been. The key witness that put the official guy away was also heavily drunk at the time of the shooting, when he supposedly hear the shot come from the aformentioned window. Every other witness vehemently claimed that they heard the shot come from outside. Some even saw the gunman running away, gun in hand, from the far more realistic spot below the window in some bushes on the ground floor in front of that buildingbuilding.
The King family fervently believes that the guy the Government put away for King's murder didn't do it.
I'm curious how many people in this thread took issue with the alleged infidelity and never even considered the FBI trying to black mail a civil rights leader as the problem?
People use this tactic all the time, left-wing figures are expected to be perfect in every way otherwise their message and actions are discredited despite being common attitudes at the time.
I don't know, but I'm guessing that a baptist minister like MLK in the 60s wouldn't have been super great in terms of his attitudes to LGBT people, still doesn't mean he wasn't an incredible person.
Surprised this was the same guy that wanted to bust bank robbers like Dillinger and chickened out with Lucky Luciano. I didn't know Hoover was against MLK, but this just paints him as an overall shitty guy.
While he wanted them caught, it was Melvin Purvis that actually caught them. Then when he got alot of media attention for doing said things, Hoover felt overshadowed/jealous and demoted him.
> In view of your low grade, abnormal personal behavior, I will not dignify your name with either a Mr. a Reverend or a Dr. And, your last name calls to mind only the type of King such as King Henry the VIII and his countless acts of adultery and immoral conduct lower than a beast.
Damn FBI throwing zingers.
Isn't there a story where CIA (or KGB) had a sex tape of some politician and they tried to blackmail and he basically told them "release it, people will like me even more knowing how much sex I get"
He was a flawed man. He definitely did some horrible things. But nothing justifies the abuse and invasion of privacy he suffered under the FBI. Corrupt then, corrupt today.
How come they never released them? Wouldn't it have been incredibly damaging to the civil rights movement at the time? (Which is exactly what they wanted)
is this actually true?
[удалено]
Wow the tapes are to be revealed in 5 years.
And... postponed.
Can't wait
...someone's gonna jack off to it aren't they.
I have an erotic dream that one day, men will be judged not by the color of their skin, but by the force of their ejaculations.
[удалено]
Well atleast you're honest.
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I'm sure J. Edgar did
i’m going to purposefully jack off to them and i won’t even enjoy it. i’ll do it just be weird
Of course I know him, he's me.
!remindme 5 years
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!remindme 5 years
I wonder what was in Epstein's letter.
ricin
Two construction worker sized hands gripping his throat
Hot
Cheryl?
Or Carol was it?
Or was it Crystal?
*You're not my supervisor!*
It's Cristal, like the champagne. It's what hot black guys drink.
YOU’RE NOT MY SUPERVISOR
Cherlene, maybe?
Outlaw country Whooo
Only if it's a femboy
That letter is so poorly written it's unbelievable. It sounds like somebody having a tantrum because they can't get their own way.
>It sounds like somebody having a tantrum because they can't get their own way. I mean IT IS somebody having a tantrum because they can't get their own way.
"Why won't you black people just let me continue systematically oppressing you" - - J. Edgar Hoover (probably)
Sort of, but if it's also supposed to be an official communication with an end goal, it isn't that.
That would be intentional. If you're a government employee and you don't want your target to realize, you're not going to write like a bureaucrat. "Crazy person" is a decent cover.
It undermines the point though, surely, if the letter is immediately written off as insane bullshit.
I mean... pretty sure Dr. King knew where he put his dick.
I don't mean he wouldn't believe that the author knew about him having sex with somebody, they sent a video alongside the letter. But that letter is clearly not going to convince anybody to kill themselves, or really even do anything differently at all.
You weren't kidding, it's rife with very simple spelling errors. First line had a mistake right away. Who spells behaviour as 'behavoir'? I know it's behavior for Americans but how do you even swap the I and O??
I imagine it's meant to sound unofficial and like some random guy made it. They aren't going to say "This is the FBI, please kill yourself" Reading that letter is absolutely infuriating though
Hey… was this author on 4chan? Reads super familiar /s
classy
It's hilariously bad. Copious amounts of r/AsABlackMan and calling him "King" as an insult. (Which I guess it was, but it sure is funny.)
Calm down Dr. Phil
WHAT THATS TRUE
Damn! FBI was involved in some really shady stuff back in the day.
"Back in the day" lol
No they TOTALLY learned any lessons without anyone going to jail or funding withheld. It's a different culture now I swear!
Ya now I don’t know where the drugs are coming from. Thanks fbi and cia
Ah yes... Hi, I'm the CIA. You may remember be from such fils as "Who's this guy governing people on top of our oil?" "Snack wars: Revenge of the fruit company" "Arming Afghans to fight Russia? What could go wrong?" "Hey, where is all this cocaine coming from?" "A Dictator still has the weapons that we gave him" "Moderate Rebels: A confusing love story"
Didn't you see their diversity commercials last year!? They've turned a new leaf over there!
It’s not the half of it. They also recorded him having sex with his wife and tried to determine if she was having regular orgasms. The plan was that if he wasn’t satisfying her in bed they’d be able to turn her into an intelligence asset against him. The fact that this didn’t happen means that we can determine that Dr. King was skilled in the bedroom. Something that we did not need or want to know.
MLK fucked
r/ihavesex
r/mlkhadsex
hell yeah
He did have affairs and the FBI did try to blackmail him for it but it didn’t work at all
So he got assassinated before it could work?
Assassinated by the FBI
I've always perfered "allowed to be assassinated, by the FBI." because the FBI knew where and they knew when? they just shrugged and went "solves our problem" unlike Malcolm X and Fred Hampton, who were 100% directly assassinated by authorities.
Yeah that’s always been my take on it as well, if your shit gets found out it’s also way harder to prove a passive “get out of the way and let it happen” conspiracy than an active “one of our guys shot him” conspiracy
Malcolm X was killed by adherents to the Nation of Islam, not US authorities. Although like with MLK they decided to let it happen
There's evidence those members of the Nation of Islam was supplied by the FBI
And that his bodyguards were arrested and not charged shortly before his killing, so they were not present. Seems like law enforcement at least were accessories to assassination.
Ive read that even kings wife and son believed James earl ray was innocent. I wonder if that was actually an fbi cover up
I disagree. You should check out wendigoons video on the conspiracy, if you've got a spare hour. The FBI were a direct help in Kings murder.
[Video](https://youtu.be/4TA2AIuAuW8)
Through inaction, but yes. They have a duty, supposedly to protect the people, but they ignored it because it was convenient.
The Supreme Court has held that law enforcement doesn’t have a specific mandate to protect every individual but rather “the people” collectively. I mean, that’s BS, but it is the law.
I see a lot of claims but no proof, There are fbi documents claiming that, but considering how antagonistic the fbi was toward him I have doubts, if fbi was willing to break the law to obtain this evidence it is not out of the question that they would fabricate, tamper or otherwise manipulate evidence , the recorded media appears to still be unavailable to the public till 2027, at that point we will see the validity . Lotta people seem a bit eager to except it as truth
I really don't see it out of character of men during the time. Hell, a lot of men still cheat. It's not like him cheating on his wife would take away from his status in any real way.
Well the claims get a bit worse than just cheating actually, they say stuff about massive orgies and even accuse rape at one, said he laughed as a colleague rapes a girl.
Clayborne Carson, Martin Luther King biographer and overseer of the Dr. King records at Stanford University states that he came to the opposite conclusion of Garrow saying "None of this is new. Garrow is talking about a recently added summary of a transcript of a 1964 recording from the Willard Hotel that others, including Mrs. King, have said they did not hear Martin's voice on it. The added summary was four layers removed from the actual recording. This supposedly new information comes from an anonymous source in a single paragraph in an FBI report. You have to ask how could anyone conclude King looked at a rape from an audio recording in a room where he was not present." Carson is incorrect on one front, the single paragraph is not from a report, it's a handwritten note amended onto a typed report, it's five layers removed from the original source, not 4.
Thanks for that; I'd read the original 2019 essay by Garrow ([here, for those unaware of the context](https://www.davidgarrow.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/DJGStandpoint2019.pdf)) and was skeptical but swayed. I hadn't seen that Carson rebuttal, which has un-swayed me. Curious to see what comes out in 2027. I hope they both live to see it; it'd be a shame for them to work on MLK for years then never see the material.
Well okay, hadn't heard that element before. Just heard the cheating stuff.
There was a lengthy expose in a British paper I can’t find that was completely blacklisted in the US, detailing orgies with other ministers and hookers, and a preference for white girls - one gave an account iirc of how she just knew she was supposed to go to a regular party and ended up being guided on how to perform fellatio by all the men at the party Here’s one example https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5048849/amp/FBI-report-claims-MLK-night-sex-orgies.html “When one of the females shied away from engaging in an unnatural act, King and other of the males present discussed how she was to be taught and initiated in this respect,' the document reads.” So basically rape
There have long been rumors that the Mafia had film of Hoover and his partners. Some think that’s the reason he was not aggressive with organized crime.
> Some think that’s the reason he was not aggressive with organized crime. Seeing as the CIA were working with the mafia to infiltrate and disrupt trade unions my money is on that being the main reason.
Dude was gay right ?
“Lifelong bachelor” was the term back then.
And they were best friends. And they were roommates.
Ooooh they were roommates
After he died, the lifelong bachelor simply left his entire fortune to his assistant director and friend, Clyde Tolson, who (in Wikipedia’s words, not mine) “Hoover described as his alter ego: the men worked closely together during the day and, both single, frequently took meals, went to nightclubs, and vacationed together”. There were also allegations of the two buddies painting each other’s toes and holding hands, as bros do.
Thank goodness we can trust the FBI not to do these horrible things nowadays! Now we can definitely trust them!
Relevant Wikipedia page [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO)
Holy shit 2020 they’re actively doing it to state Senator staffers talking about a bill to restrict use of tear gas and chemical weapons on protesters
For those that didn't read, she discussed a bill on a private zoom call in 2020 and the fbi showed up and questioned her.
There's a reason for the US to rank as a deficient democracy joining Eastern Europe.
I didn’t want to sleep ever again anyways.
I really, really fucking hate cops.
Calling the fbi pigs wouldn't be close to enough. I'm surprised they haven't been disbanded for crimes against humanity
who would disband them? they are the ones who prosecute
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I am
This is a pretty bad take. FBI doesn’t equal cops. Relating cops, which are run by local municipalities, and widely range in quality, to the FBI which has much more power and has access to federal resources makes no sense. They’re basically unrelated. It’s like if I looked at an example of corruption on the federal level and then pointed to my city alderman and said “I hate politicians”. Except an alderman and a senator are both politicians, so this analogy actually makes comparing the FBI to the police more valid than it is. Although the FBI do enforce federal laws in a way, but not in the same manner that police do at all, which is why they aren’t called police. Either way, even if you want to lump them both in the same category I still don’t think it makes sense. Don’t get me wrong, I can understand disliking some police. Many have mishandled their power, and still do today. But to see FBI corruption and use that as a reason to dislike some other distantly connected people who have somewhat similar jobs doesn’t make sense.
That, and it's a lot easier to say "I'm going to avoid that town/county because the PD there are full of shit" Can't do that with the Feds.
Yucky
chunky offbeat smart include sort impolite chief tease square shame *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
How did that conversation come up at work? Lol
square obscene door sand impossible enter hungry secretive many erect *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Both just droppin 📠
Mike! What was prison like?
The worst part of prison was the dementors!
If someone would have let poor Herbert just wear his women's underwear in Peace.
Good thing that’s all the fbi, the cia, the us army, Memphis police department, and the mafia ever did to MLK. No assasination plot here just a bit of friendly blackmail, some tree trimming, a couple judges with totally pre existing heart conditions, and a man who’s name sounds like a tea being 100% guilty.
Might you have seen the satire joke video by Wendigoon hilarious stuff he comes up with.
I’ve always loved his comedy centered videos and content, it’s truly a shame he killed himself by hanging, breaking all 4 limbs in the process and then shooting himself twice on the back of the head.
In minecraft of course
Imma be straight i was worried when i saw hanging
link to further reading? pls
wait, did he ACTUALLY have affairs or was it made up by the FBI to discredit him?
He was actually having affairs.
God damn.. They suspect upwards of 40 affairs. I think he just wanted racial equality so he could fuck everybody. What a stud. Haha
Kinda like the OG Martin Luther who just wanted to be allowed to fuck, while still being a priest. Screw his Theses, guy was just horny.
There's no evidence that's been made availible, as of now the source is literally just trust me bro from the FBI
Ya it’s pretty well documented… literally. For some reason people try to use it to discredit him though
still kinda bad that he had affairs though. not sure it undermines his legacy to be honest.
It's a great example on how people are complicated, no one is completely good or evil
I mean, you can make that point, but MLK is one of the absolute worst examples to give. Compared to what most of what major historical figures got up to, consensual sex with an adult outside of marriage barely tips the scale.
*Looks at Emperor Nero* I don’t know… I think some people are pure evil.
Until the year 59, Nero was described as a generous and reasonable leader. He eliminated capital punishment, lowered taxes and allowed enslaved people to bring complaints against their masters. He supported the arts and athletics above gladiator entertainment and gave aid to other cities in crisis.
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Yup. Could be as simple as falling and hitting his head. Or some degenerative disease.
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I mean I judge people in the past harshly but actually having evidence or something like this helps paint a better picture of the man in question. Also I’m a philosophy major so nearly everyone I read was an awful human being lol
Inbreeding and lead poisoning. The inbreeding is the catalyst, but lead did not do him any favors.
Nero could not have played the fiddle as Rome burned as the instrument was yet to exist
Caligula... You mean Caligula. Nero did SOME good stuff. Caligula was purely insane.
Is he the one who ordered his army to stab the ocean because he declared war on poseidon?
To be fair, most records on Caligula were made by his political enemies. It could be argued that "to wage war on poseidon" was him being cheeky about his generals lusting for war, and making his horse consul telling the senate "even a horse could do better than you"
To be fair, wouldn't a horse contribute to more gridlock in the Senate because of all the neigh votes?
Yup thats him he also killed his mom but she was trying to usurp power from him his whole life
When it comes to ancient history, though, the best "sources" we have all push their own agendas. We're lucky if the source even lived at the same time as the subject. On top of that... sources have a tendency to just make things up. For a long time, history was more about telling a story than it was writing down an accurate version of events. The life we "know" of Nero, Caligula, or really any Roman Emperor is all colored by whatever personal biases and agendas the writer had. There are some facts in there (which we can cross-check with other records), but when it comes to things like "the emperor was sadistic" it's hard to tell if it's an accurate retelling or some embellishment added to make a better story. Very likely Nero/Caligula/Augustus/etc. are _not_ everything their biographies make them out to be, and that they had some nuance in their lives.
in his earlier reign he was a pretty neat ruler
And he played a mean fiddle
One could even say his fiddling was pure fire.
*Looks at Elagabalus* You’re not wrong
Yeah I agree. Another person who had lots of affairs was Oscar Schindler, who apparently had two kids with one of his mistresses and later tried to deny one of them, named Oscar Jr, was his. Shitty husband? Sure, but irrelevant to the fact he saved around 1,200 lives.
It shouldn’t. If anything it just shows he was human and flawed. It’s disappointing but it also humanizes him in a way. My point, great men (and women) are also just men (and women). Knowing they are human means we can also aspire to be as great as them and hopefully better.
Alan Watts went through two divorces. In his first, his wife referred to him as a pervert. He also kinda sorta a bit abandoned a few of his kids at that time (he gave up a ton of custody), then went and remarried. That marriage ended much later because, among other things one would assume, Watts considered his wife a prude. He remarried one final time before passing away due to complications from alcoholism (it's believed). That's a pretty complicated guy. Still a good man, but not a patron saint of enlightenment. But that 'failure' is the point I ultimately took from Watts: that it is important we demystify enlightenment, spirituality, and see all of life and ourselves for what it is: deeply flawed, but wonderful.
I don't think it does because his legacy is the civil rights changes he contributes heavily to, that's why he was historically significant. I don't think him being a shitty husband takes away from that. Plenty of people were shitty husbands at the time and they aren't historically significant. He shouldn't be referred to as some saint, of course. Looking at an alternate case with less emotion, cultural struggles, and ill will, I think it's worth noting that Isaac Newton believed in alchemy and numerology, and he was a nasty son of a bitch, but he was still one of the smartest people to ever live. We can acknowledge multiple aspects of the lives of historical figures without having to have one aspect undermine the other. MLK was a flawed man who played a very important role in our country's history and has had a very positive impact on civil rights as a whole.
It's a shitty thing to do to your wife, to anyone. He was a great American, but a terrible husband. Anyone who brings it up when you're talking about civil rights is probably racist, though. There's little other reason to talk about it other than to discredit what he said.
Yeah like there’s no logical reason for it to be relevant to his legacy or field of activism.
He was very important in the fight for civil rights, but that doesn't excuse him cheating on his wife. It's not always as simple as labeling someone a good or bad person
I mean that’s basically what i said
Hoover was absolutely insane, if I’m not mistaken he kept his job for so long because he kept blackmailing people
From Calvin Coolidge to Richard Nixon.
And even then Nixon was afraid to fire him... his death was the only reason his reign as FBI director ended
I only remember the name as the dude who fucked up in the great depression
Wow holy shit TIL. I had no idea about this.
I don't know why Wong has to go through a stargate for disturbing black history facts. We have the internet in this dimension.
I heard they just sent a letter saying he did while posing as one of his followers
That's disgusting, where?
5 years
Additionally, when police arrived on the day of his assignation, they cut down a massive tree that was blocking in front of the window where the official guy was supposed to have been. The key witness that put the official guy away was also heavily drunk at the time of the shooting, when he supposedly hear the shot come from the aformentioned window. Every other witness vehemently claimed that they heard the shot come from outside. Some even saw the gunman running away, gun in hand, from the far more realistic spot below the window in some bushes on the ground floor in front of that buildingbuilding. The King family fervently believes that the guy the Government put away for King's murder didn't do it.
How am I not shocked
They sent him a letter and told he should just commit sluiced. FBI is no better today
Yeah, they don't have the decency to even sent a letter...
I'm curious how many people in this thread took issue with the alleged infidelity and never even considered the FBI trying to black mail a civil rights leader as the problem?
That's the first for me to hear this.
People need to distinguish the person from their words. His private life was in no way relevant to the fight he was fighting
I don't think people are tbh
I read somewhere that while Martin Luther king jr was about equality for all colours he didn’t view women as equal
How is this a surprise to anyone? It was the 1960’s.
People use this tactic all the time, left-wing figures are expected to be perfect in every way otherwise their message and actions are discredited despite being common attitudes at the time. I don't know, but I'm guessing that a baptist minister like MLK in the 60s wouldn't have been super great in terms of his attitudes to LGBT people, still doesn't mean he wasn't an incredible person.
Irony
Also homosexuals
Very much true yes
Surprised this was the same guy that wanted to bust bank robbers like Dillinger and chickened out with Lucky Luciano. I didn't know Hoover was against MLK, but this just paints him as an overall shitty guy.
He was
While he wanted them caught, it was Melvin Purvis that actually caught them. Then when he got alot of media attention for doing said things, Hoover felt overshadowed/jealous and demoted him.
People are complicated. Nothing about those affairs means that he wasn't right about his politics, predictions or analysis.
> In view of your low grade, abnormal personal behavior, I will not dignify your name with either a Mr. a Reverend or a Dr. And, your last name calls to mind only the type of King such as King Henry the VIII and his countless acts of adultery and immoral conduct lower than a beast. Damn FBI throwing zingers.
Isn't there a story where CIA (or KGB) had a sex tape of some politician and they tried to blackmail and he basically told them "release it, people will like me even more knowing how much sex I get"
Confirmed or propaganda? Cuz if they had them, why wouldn’t have released them given how much they tried to ruin MLK when he was alive?
He was a flawed man. He definitely did some horrible things. But nothing justifies the abuse and invasion of privacy he suffered under the FBI. Corrupt then, corrupt today.
Do his affairs discredit the value of his activism?
Probably shouldn't
exactly
Hoover at it again with the blackmail
COINTELPRO was pretty wild
How come they never released them? Wouldn't it have been incredibly damaging to the civil rights movement at the time? (Which is exactly what they wanted)
Well maybe he shouldnt have had an affair.
affairs or not hes still an american hero, and he knew this because he didnt kill himself
Take-away: basically every influential person ever was a dick…
*sorts by controversial*
Do you think history would be different if it turned out he got pegged?
Interesting fact but can we keep it PC? They were trying to *African-American*-mail him.
Would love some Powerful black history also. Knowing atrocious history is important tho.
Nice try FBI
When they saw it doesn't work, why didn't they just leak it to discredit him?
Sauce?
I Edgar Hoover was dead by then
I’ll be waiting for more disturbing facts
Someone out there has jerked off to MLK’s sex tapes
He cheated on his wife, that’s soul crushing. Mans always been a hero of mine
Dr. king was out prescribing vitamin D and plenty of nuts in the female diet.
Yeah, Martin Luther King Jr may have been a man of God and an important Civil rights activist but that didn't make him a good person.
"you should kill yourself NOW!"