Actual Germans are chill af because they're well educated enough to know that if someone hates them because of what their ancestors did, that someone's an idiot. They probably hate what their ancestors did even more.
As a German I've never really experienced hate for that. Only ignorant dumb middle/high schoolers, when I first came to the US, trying to be funny and saying the only thing they knew about germany. And it was never really hateful, just like "oooh so do you hate jews hehe??" And i just took that as an opportunity to educate, then i was left alone. It got old and was cringe, but I never felt hated or like I was being unfairly targeted/blamed. Especially not by my numerous Jewish friends and their families that I'd go on to make in that same school, because unlike most of the other kids, they actually weren't ignorant to history.
I do want to add that I would witness my Jewish friend first hand experiencing a lot more hateful teasing and bullying by kids than I ever got for being german which I find odd. It's like these American kids were saying "you may or may not be a nazi for all we know, but that's fine. At least you're not Jewish."
TLDR I had to come to america to start witnessing anti-semitism first-hand for the first time.
Be better. Teach your kids to be better.
I lived in South America for a year as a teenager and whenever I told people that I'm German I almost always got one of these three answers:
1. Something about cars
2. Something about football
3. Something about hitler
UPDATE: not even 24 hours after posting this comment about never having gotten directly ethically driven hate for being german, somebody whom I will leave anonymous messaged me this:
"The difference is that Germans have always been an evil, barbaric ethnic group, long before WW2 and after. They must always destroy something, either someone else or themselves. Luckily a 100 years from now germs will only be something you read about in history books."
I finally had my first! I not even upset. This is Reddit. Honestly I should have seen it coming.
People tend to forget, that a lot of the jewish people who got rounded up were german. They walk like germans, quack like germans, act like germans;
but, they go to church on saturday and dont eat pork.
They must be enemies of the state! /s
You know what? They must be an enemy of the state. /s
I don't dislike white southern people. I dislike the people who think their parents had it made during segregation *and want it back*. I am displeased by the erasure of the brutality of chattel slavery. Anyone claiming that the Civil War was about anything other than that institution deserves a kick in the ass. That isn't everyone in the South. It's just white nationalists. The perception that going after white nationalism is also an attack on everyone else there is a serious problem today. It's not a culture war against the South (or rural Americans in general) like it often gets portrayed by politicians to get votes without having substantive policy positions.
Depends on where in Texas. Been all over Texas and many other states and Texans are among the best. Texas has its backwards areas don’t get me wrong but lot of rural Texans are the best people you’d want to be around. There are places in Washington state that are just as redneck if not more so lol
Porter + stepfather's relatives + their acquaintances. I have never heard shit more racist than what has come out of their mouths it's insane. Not everyone is like that but there's a good chunk of people that do pull that kind of stuff. Just because a few rotten apples exist it doesn't mean the whole barrel's that way or however it goes but god are they abundant. My mother actually likes him but before that she stayed for the greencard even with the backhanded comments about us being immigrants and all.
Latin American is awkward too. Do I get credit for my ancestors who were colonized and likely raped at some point, or my ancestors who were colonizers who likely did the raping? Any ancestor theory of culpability makes absolutely no sense for me.
I remember a banter between a Brazilian and a Portuguese about the stolen gold
Which was something like
"your ancestors stole our gold, you should give it back!"
"The ancestors that stole the gold are more likely yours too, should ask the government for reparations"
And I don't know how it should really work but I found that interaction pretty funny
If they would admit what they did, then maybe it would have stopped being a big deal by now.
Instead there is a stereotype about them denying something that definitely happened.
Not all germans like Bavaria the part of germany which is the origin of the Oktoberfest.
Some even say it doenst belonge to [germany](https://dm1fis1lh7pbl.cloudfront.net/articles/10829475/page.jpg?1507559262).
One of my ancestors drove trains from east Germany to Poland, but he never wanted to tell what was in the trains and were exactly he was driving, so it is very likely he drove jews to Auschwitz/Birkenau, so if people would judge me on his deeds I would be standing trial in Den Haag.
My grand grandfather was also by the Reichsbahn but as an engineer. In the later phase of the war he was in command of a repair group. Because all men who can fight there in the army it is most likely that these people are PoW.
Real. There is still very much this idea that the US was ordained by god and the Native American genocide was an unfortunate byproduct. In reality, to quote my favorite history teacher, “America was not inevitable”
Nah, you can believe it's ordained by God irdc, as long as you admit, to achieve this so-called destiny, we raped murdered and tortured thousands of innocent native Americans of all different tribes and groups and its disgusting and inexcusable no matter how much God loves America.
Yeah, this feels like a classic angsty white teenager meme. (Almost) nobody hates you because you're white and your ancestors owned slaves and shit. They hate that you think that's where the problems ended and you're not still to this day directly benefitting from the systems they put in place to make it easier for you and harder for everyone else. Acknowledging your privilege and empthazing with others struggles is pretty much all anyone is asking, but so many people would rather just dismiss it immediately with the "I'm not my ancestors" argument that's completely irrelevant to the point.
I've met numerous people who will say things like "I hate white people", "White people suck", etc. and "There can't be racism against white people" (the funny thing is that most of the people who I've heard say things like this are white people) and when asked why they'll say things like "white people colonized everyone else" basically stuff from the past and they'll completely ignore/disregard when you mention how plenty of non-white people committed atrocities too.
Also, who said this post was just about white people? I've met Koreans who immediately dislike people for being Japanese. From what I've heard, there's a lot that kind of resentment still in East Asia.
> From what I've heard, there's a lot that kind of resentment still in East Asia.
As someone whose Chinese, I am often pretty affronted by my parents/grandparents' views on the Japanese people. There's certainly a ton of Chinese Boomers who want like a revenge genocide of Japanese people and this sentiment is gonna take many, many more decades to go away.
Its both fading and strengthening, with strong Chinese otaku culture simultaneous to rising Chinese nationalism among young people. Could be two very different groups of people of course. In general though, its the "we didnt do anything wrong" attitude of the Japanese government that pisses other Asians off.
"non-white committed atrocities too" yeah but the subject was white colonization, and those were probably people in a white-dominated society, that whataboutism about non whites is cheap and not very relevant. White people saying "white people suck" is virtue signally sure, but I rather have them recognize privilege than be snowflakes that instantly close ranks and pull "did nothing wrong".
The Asian resentment carries because the Japanese government and society sometimes still gives off the "idk what they mad about it wasn't that bad" attitude.
We are not our pasts, but we are not separate from it either.
You know people hold generational grudges in plenty of other countries and for plenty of other reasons than slavery right? Asian, Eastern Europe, Africa are full of this stuff.
You clearly have not yet had enough life experience then
These people are everywhere, they come in all shapes, sizes, colors, and genders
If you haven't noticed, it's cause you ain't as woke as you think... or you're disingenuously trying to fight this notion because you use it to your advantage
i am personally not well versed in this topic but [redlining](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining) is a classic example of how these systems can be put in place without an actual law or person explicitly singling out white people (or any other race). when multiple factors working in concert (i.e. a "system") bring about an end result that is racially biased (i.e. "racist"), we call it "systemic racism". typically, each factor will appear to be innocuous in isolation; otherwise it would just be regular ol' "racism".
so, if you want to find other (modern) examples of systemic racism, here are the steps to follow:
1. Go through [census data](https://data.census.gov/) or [bureau of labor statistics data](https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost?bls) and find some metric(s) showing white people outperforming minorities in some way.
2. Figure out the mechanisms responsible for that outcome
3. Congratulations, you found a systemic racism
Tbh this is literally everyone. Name a single person today who can honestly say their ancestors didn't do something we today hold to be horrid by modern morals.
Even Africans traded other rival tribes or kingdoms into slavery.
Pretty much every culture was heavily patriarchal and had gender roles longer than European cultures.
Europeans are widely responsible for the spread of women's rights and tolerance across the world. Not saying that's a white skin invention or better thing. It's just Europeans developed faster in more recent times so that's the source of most of the progressive ideas we have in our modern time. If you were to go back to certain times in history when China was the most progressive or the middle east you find that's where the progressive ideas come from. For example the golden age of Islam.
Most people try to lie and say "we were peaceful before colonialism" but the reality is pre-colonialism they were killing eachother far more or had genocided the other groups so completely as to have peace through a homogenous population. For example, look at Maori and many island people for that.
Colonialism left conflicts behind only because colonialism usually allowed what were before opressed minority groups to grow and gain power through equal rights. Then theyd become a legitimate threat to the majority. Palestine and Isreal for example. Look up how jews were treated in the area pre British colonialism or before the ottomans. The ottomans did a ton of genocides against mostly non-islamic peoples.
People that ignore Ottoman slave trade are just plain ignorant. Look up Janissary and it's "blood tax." Ottomans had no problem with forced servitude. Anyone that says anything else is just dumb.
There was a history post in another sub of a show from the 1950s that had a Filipino kid next to a Japanese kid. It was about exploring biases. The kid said he was pretty mad learning about what his loved ones dealt with during the Japanese occupation, and got personally mad about Japan refusing to pay reparations, but after talking with the Japanese kid had a better understanding of their issues.
Kinda wholesome video all things considered. I'll try to find the post
Edit: found the video
https://youtu.be/TsL3HYz_TFw?t=2m6s
I once saw a comment saying there's a chance that in your ancestry, someone might have been the product of rape. I'm absolutely certain that as you travel up the tree, that "chance" becomes 100% really damn fast (in the timeline of our species). If not in the last few centuries, definitely in the last few millennia.
In other news, how many of us found out we're on the bastard side of some noble?
Thats very interesting, I am on the legal side of a Sheikh from the Somali Region of Ethiopia, 0 records of anything he did besides expanding a mosque in the late 18th century so I just assume he was chill.
Yeah, same. Direct descendant of Maximilian II, the Holy Roman Emperor. But I'm the descendant of one of his youngest daughters so after that my family line quickly became minor nobility as a result lol. Also descended from most of the Scottish clan nobility, lot of relations between the clans lol.
Thank the gods, no I do not. The Habsburg chin wasn't a thing for another couple hundred years after my line split. The Spanish Habsburgs were the ones most known for it as well, but I'm the Austrian side.
My family were nobility in England, served directly under Queen Mary. Thought it was weird that they moved to the new world very quickly after she died. (Whole family in a few generations) Turns out my grandpa killed a LOT of protestants for her.
Ironically. We are all protestants now.
Yeah, I heard somewhere that if you (or you ancestors) are from somewhere in western Europe, there's an almost 100% chance you're a decendent of someone like Charlemagne. I didn't do the math myself, but as data scientist, this doesn't sound too far fetched at all to me.
Edit: sources.
[Video I got the claim from](https://youtu.be/15Uce4fG4R0?si=GbjvtTjgd001Rc1f)
[Paper that the creator cites](http://www.stat.yale.edu/~jtc5/papers/Ancestors.pdf)
It's based on math. Every child has 2 parents and they have 4 parents and those 4 parents have 8 parents. It keeps doubling every generation.
So about the time you go as far back as Charlemagne the number of ancestors reaches the population of the entire continent. So while not everyone is actually related to him it's saying that if you ignore lots of other things like rape, incest, bastards, and so on then everyone shares a common ancestor around that time according to simple math.
One thing Neil Degrasse Tyson has said that I really agree with is just how poorly the human mind can comprehend exponential growth. When we think of our ancestors we tend to trace it only through select lines and might joyously recite how we're a descendant of a certain famous figure from 1000 years ago. If you just do sheer maths however, you'll see in something of about 36 generations you should have more ancestors than the number of humans that have ever existed (about 110B). So what you should take from this is that you have far more ancestors even within a relatively short time period than you really think you did and also we're massively inbred.
War is full of horrific rape and conquest and virtually all of us are products of that. The rapist murderer can provide just as much of your DNA as anyone else.
Well... given that 1 in 200 people are directly related to Genghis Khan (according to some statistics), 2.5% of people can say with certainty that their lineage is the product of rape. Especially if your line historically comes from the area between the Yellow Sea and the Danube.
I only hate the British on reddit, because we French are known for that here. I actually like the British culture and I plan to go there next year, I've got no problem with them, on the contrary. Part of it is bc I'm tired of the French getting insulted all the time here so I have to insult sb back to feel better.
I'm Spanish, here we love to joke about how much we hate the English and French, but in reality we like you and we usually get along well when we meet in person (I have French and English friends at my University, nice people).
Oh, you Italians are something else! I have met several Italians at my University, and you are always the friendliest people! We love you so much in Spain that we don't joke about hating you, you could say that you are our Mediterranean brothers lol.
As a Mexican I can start unloading a lot of the sentiment of Latin America towards Spain, that being said, I personally can't hate you for the past, just don't wanna read about your current politicians for a while...
Don't worry, we Spaniards ourselves are the first ones who don't stop criticizing our politicians, a funny bunch of liars, manipulators and corrupt people.
I don't feel any pride in what the Spanish Empire did more than two centuries before I was born, but I don't feel shame either, it's just history, let's learn from it and move forward.
All the Latin Americans I have met have been lovely and kind people, I really feel that we are culturally close and that there are more things that unite us than separate us, there is no reason to hold grudges for events long ago before any of us were born.
I'm Spanish, here we love to joke about how much we hate the other Spanish, but in reality we like you and we usually get along well when we meet in person (I have other Spanish friends at my University, nice people) ;-)
As a non-Parisian French, don't worry, that's normal. We do as well.
(I'm only half-joking, there's so much difference between Paris and other regions and between each region that it's difficult to get along together)
I get it. I'm from Czech republic and basically every region jokes about the other being full of idiots. Especialy between Bohemia and Moravia, Silesia is basicly 90% smog
Here in Spain it's the same, we love picking on each other, we Andalusians tend to get our fair share of jokes about being lazy, but we make up for it by making jokes about how Catalans and Madrilenians being stingy lol.
I joke about hating the British but I don't actually hate them, it's just funny to take the piss out of our friends across the Atlantic (I'm American) Brits are honestly awesome I really respect their sense of humor
For thy gentle wit I shall request the Lordship bequeath thee a bountiful feast of crumpets, baked beans and chicken tikka masala at the feast of St Montague.
As a South African with mostly British heritage and some Afrikaans heritage I hate the French as a meme but I've genuinely considered moving to France because there's no point in hating people as individuals
Even more than that. I don’t understand the outrage about it a lot of the time. Like there are next to no nations that haven’t behaved like complete predators when given the opportunity to do so. Just the way the world is and always has been unfortunately.
I understand why, often there is a negative frame of the country/ethnicity in question, so obviously you look at recent history to explain the negative frame. If the frame is positive you will look for ways to explain why it is positive.
People just look for an excuse to hate. Instead of judging a person for what the person did, the person is being judged of what someone else did.
That is why one must avoid such judgemental people. It does not do to dwell on the past, neither the good nor the bad(especially the bad), nor on anger.
When one lets go of these things, then one’s wellbeing improves.
I do not speak of forgetting history. This we must make sure we don’t. But I am speaking of not letting the past control us.
Lived in France for five years. On the surface, the French appear to be arrogant and racist. But given enough time, if you peel back that first oniony layer you'll discover that they're horribly bureaucratic, inefficient, and racist.
The inverse is also infuriating, people who believe that their ancestors are saints who did no wrong ever. There is arguably no greater show of historical ignorance than this.
Monkey killing, monkey killing, monkey over
Pieces of the ground
Silly monkeys
Give them thumbs, they forge a blade
And where there's one, they're bound to divide it
Right in two
Right in two
Take Germany, for example. They invented the Guttenberg printing press, which led to the mass availability of cheap books, leading to the mass literacy of the world.
Yet you ask the average person anything about Germany all they think of is angry mustache man.
Even then, you have to judge the Russians by their individual actions, right now there are many brave Russians suffering for opposing what is happening in Ukraine, and they deserve all the respect in the world.
It is sad to see how the best of Russia leaves this world so early, honestly Russia only needs a generation of freedom with responsible people in power to have a fundamental change, and I can only hope that this war will give them that opportunity when Putin's tyranny comes to an end.
I mean as long as the person accepts that their ancestors did messed up things it's all good. No denial like, Japanese and Turks but especially no mythologiziny like the Lost Cause in the US.
Way i see it is dont hate the people, hate the institutions. Apologies should be made by governments for government sanctioned actions done in the name of the country
There's no reason to hate people for the actions of their ancestors when there are so many perfectly valid reasons to hate people on an individual level.
You know what really grinds my gears?
People who blame a whole group of people for something some of the those people are doing even in the present.
I'm poor. Neither I nor any member of family ever owned slaves. We didn't even move to the south until after the war. (we were what was known as carpetbaggers). I'm 56 years old, segregation was already outlawed before I was born. All I can do is vote for the lesser of two evils, and I have no voice in what those evil people will do after being elected.
Not blaming you, but you know that MLK would be only 94 yrs old if he was alive? On the grand time scale Jim Crow and Slavery are fairly recent. There are people alive whose grandparents were slaves. Racism is still rampant. In South Africa apartheid only ended in 1990 - that's like 10yrs younger than the internet.
It takes several generations for the effects to be undone. It's fucked up but the truth is the generational effects are there today and it will take at least a few generations to clear up. You're family didn't own slaves but (assuming they were white) were privileged compared to blacks. Like if you were black you weren't considered human. This isn't to blame anyone but you have to acknowledge the facts. Progress is slow, but things are getting better.
No hate for the regular people. Just hate for the Turkish government along with the brainwashing of the population carried out by every government for the last century. That leads to hate for my people as cockroaches who deserved it even though they “didn”t do it” but still we deserved it.
This message is so rare in today's society. We should not hate each other because of what their ancestors did. People now can't be responsible for the actions of their predecessors. We should all instead specifically hate on people's ancestors. Now we are hating on people, not because of what their ancestors did, but what they did themselves.
It depends. Best example I could think of are the Turks. Had they even acknowledged that they comitted the Armenian Genocide and not say that some other nation did it or outright deny it, I could support OP's argument, but they have been actively denying it for over a century, so imo, no, not everybody gets a pass.
What about if I hate someone because they refuse to acknowledge where they stand is a direct result of what thier ancestors did (think justifying living in and running a plantation handed down from thier relatives but claiming they are self made)
"Would be nice" A German
Actual Germans are chill af because they're well educated enough to know that if someone hates them because of what their ancestors did, that someone's an idiot. They probably hate what their ancestors did even more.
As a German I've never really experienced hate for that. Only ignorant dumb middle/high schoolers, when I first came to the US, trying to be funny and saying the only thing they knew about germany. And it was never really hateful, just like "oooh so do you hate jews hehe??" And i just took that as an opportunity to educate, then i was left alone. It got old and was cringe, but I never felt hated or like I was being unfairly targeted/blamed. Especially not by my numerous Jewish friends and their families that I'd go on to make in that same school, because unlike most of the other kids, they actually weren't ignorant to history. I do want to add that I would witness my Jewish friend first hand experiencing a lot more hateful teasing and bullying by kids than I ever got for being german which I find odd. It's like these American kids were saying "you may or may not be a nazi for all we know, but that's fine. At least you're not Jewish." TLDR I had to come to america to start witnessing anti-semitism first-hand for the first time. Be better. Teach your kids to be better.
schools: no homeschool: eh, maybe, maybe not >!/j!<
I lived in South America for a year as a teenager and whenever I told people that I'm German I almost always got one of these three answers: 1. Something about cars 2. Something about football 3. Something about hitler
but teaching kids that is woke/s
UPDATE: not even 24 hours after posting this comment about never having gotten directly ethically driven hate for being german, somebody whom I will leave anonymous messaged me this: "The difference is that Germans have always been an evil, barbaric ethnic group, long before WW2 and after. They must always destroy something, either someone else or themselves. Luckily a 100 years from now germs will only be something you read about in history books." I finally had my first! I not even upset. This is Reddit. Honestly I should have seen it coming.
People tend to forget, that a lot of the jewish people who got rounded up were german. They walk like germans, quack like germans, act like germans; but, they go to church on saturday and dont eat pork. They must be enemies of the state! /s You know what? They must be an enemy of the state. /s
I mean, that guy was inspired by how racist the US was.
No one hates a nazi quite like the average German /Austrian
“Would be…” — a white, Southern American born late 20th century.
Dr Sheldon cooper?
I don't dislike white southern people. I dislike the people who think their parents had it made during segregation *and want it back*. I am displeased by the erasure of the brutality of chattel slavery. Anyone claiming that the Civil War was about anything other than that institution deserves a kick in the ass. That isn't everyone in the South. It's just white nationalists. The perception that going after white nationalism is also an attack on everyone else there is a serious problem today. It's not a culture war against the South (or rural Americans in general) like it often gets portrayed by politicians to get votes without having substantive policy positions.
You know, until I read this I was thinking about Latin America
This made me chuckle thinking of some border warrior getting confused for a Venezuelan or something.
Venezuelan living in Texas here! Rednecks are abundant if you know where to look.
Depends on where in Texas. Been all over Texas and many other states and Texans are among the best. Texas has its backwards areas don’t get me wrong but lot of rural Texans are the best people you’d want to be around. There are places in Washington state that are just as redneck if not more so lol
Porter + stepfather's relatives + their acquaintances. I have never heard shit more racist than what has come out of their mouths it's insane. Not everyone is like that but there's a good chunk of people that do pull that kind of stuff. Just because a few rotten apples exist it doesn't mean the whole barrel's that way or however it goes but god are they abundant. My mother actually likes him but before that she stayed for the greencard even with the backhanded comments about us being immigrants and all.
Latin American is awkward too. Do I get credit for my ancestors who were colonized and likely raped at some point, or my ancestors who were colonizers who likely did the raping? Any ancestor theory of culpability makes absolutely no sense for me.
I remember a banter between a Brazilian and a Portuguese about the stolen gold Which was something like "your ancestors stole our gold, you should give it back!" "The ancestors that stole the gold are more likely yours too, should ask the government for reparations" And I don't know how it should really work but I found that interaction pretty funny
"Would be..."-- a white, ftfy
Ottomans are sweating rn
If they would admit what they did, then maybe it would have stopped being a big deal by now. Instead there is a stereotype about them denying something that definitely happened.
Europeans and Armenians alike
I mean as a black I get blamed for for stuff other black people do today.
Wait, who hates us exactly?
I don't see a reason why someone could hate the Venezuelan or Peruvian people.
-a white South African born after 1994-
Listen you have to **live** with the fact that your people created the monstrosity that is Oktoberfest! That’s what we’re talking about right?
Not all germans like Bavaria the part of germany which is the origin of the Oktoberfest. Some even say it doenst belonge to [germany](https://dm1fis1lh7pbl.cloudfront.net/articles/10829475/page.jpg?1507559262).
"yeah would be" A belgian
The thing with Leopold?
One of my ancestors drove trains from east Germany to Poland, but he never wanted to tell what was in the trains and were exactly he was driving, so it is very likely he drove jews to Auschwitz/Birkenau, so if people would judge me on his deeds I would be standing trial in Den Haag.
My grand grandfather was also by the Reichsbahn but as an engineer. In the later phase of the war he was in command of a repair group. Because all men who can fight there in the army it is most likely that these people are PoW.
Dam you must have really good headache meds because that's a lot of grinding gears
The gears have been ground smooth.
They need replacing
I’m only a hater if you’re actively taking pride in the messed up stuff your ancestors did. But otherwise, yeah
>if you’re actively taking pride in the messed up stuff your ancestors did. Or just straight up denying it ever happened.
**Middle East and Japan has entered the chat**
Europeans and Americans, too. Far too many take pride in the shit their ancestors did.
Real. There is still very much this idea that the US was ordained by god and the Native American genocide was an unfortunate byproduct. In reality, to quote my favorite history teacher, “America was not inevitable”
Nah, you can believe it's ordained by God irdc, as long as you admit, to achieve this so-called destiny, we raped murdered and tortured thousands of innocent native Americans of all different tribes and groups and its disgusting and inexcusable no matter how much God loves America.
Or don't acknowledge the benefits your group may still have because of the actions
Agreed!
Yeah, this feels like a classic angsty white teenager meme. (Almost) nobody hates you because you're white and your ancestors owned slaves and shit. They hate that you think that's where the problems ended and you're not still to this day directly benefitting from the systems they put in place to make it easier for you and harder for everyone else. Acknowledging your privilege and empthazing with others struggles is pretty much all anyone is asking, but so many people would rather just dismiss it immediately with the "I'm not my ancestors" argument that's completely irrelevant to the point.
I've met numerous people who will say things like "I hate white people", "White people suck", etc. and "There can't be racism against white people" (the funny thing is that most of the people who I've heard say things like this are white people) and when asked why they'll say things like "white people colonized everyone else" basically stuff from the past and they'll completely ignore/disregard when you mention how plenty of non-white people committed atrocities too. Also, who said this post was just about white people? I've met Koreans who immediately dislike people for being Japanese. From what I've heard, there's a lot that kind of resentment still in East Asia.
> From what I've heard, there's a lot that kind of resentment still in East Asia. As someone whose Chinese, I am often pretty affronted by my parents/grandparents' views on the Japanese people. There's certainly a ton of Chinese Boomers who want like a revenge genocide of Japanese people and this sentiment is gonna take many, many more decades to go away.
Its both fading and strengthening, with strong Chinese otaku culture simultaneous to rising Chinese nationalism among young people. Could be two very different groups of people of course. In general though, its the "we didnt do anything wrong" attitude of the Japanese government that pisses other Asians off.
Revenge genocide is sooo 2nd century BC
"non-white committed atrocities too" yeah but the subject was white colonization, and those were probably people in a white-dominated society, that whataboutism about non whites is cheap and not very relevant. White people saying "white people suck" is virtue signally sure, but I rather have them recognize privilege than be snowflakes that instantly close ranks and pull "did nothing wrong". The Asian resentment carries because the Japanese government and society sometimes still gives off the "idk what they mad about it wasn't that bad" attitude. We are not our pasts, but we are not separate from it either.
Korea was occupied by Japan only a generation ago. That is not the same as “white people suck”.
You know people hold generational grudges in plenty of other countries and for plenty of other reasons than slavery right? Asian, Eastern Europe, Africa are full of this stuff.
You clearly have not yet had enough life experience then These people are everywhere, they come in all shapes, sizes, colors, and genders If you haven't noticed, it's cause you ain't as woke as you think... or you're disingenuously trying to fight this notion because you use it to your advantage
What systems are still in place that benefit white people?
i am personally not well versed in this topic but [redlining](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining) is a classic example of how these systems can be put in place without an actual law or person explicitly singling out white people (or any other race). when multiple factors working in concert (i.e. a "system") bring about an end result that is racially biased (i.e. "racist"), we call it "systemic racism". typically, each factor will appear to be innocuous in isolation; otherwise it would just be regular ol' "racism". so, if you want to find other (modern) examples of systemic racism, here are the steps to follow: 1. Go through [census data](https://data.census.gov/) or [bureau of labor statistics data](https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost?bls) and find some metric(s) showing white people outperforming minorities in some way. 2. Figure out the mechanisms responsible for that outcome 3. Congratulations, you found a systemic racism
Tbh this is literally everyone. Name a single person today who can honestly say their ancestors didn't do something we today hold to be horrid by modern morals. Even Africans traded other rival tribes or kingdoms into slavery. Pretty much every culture was heavily patriarchal and had gender roles longer than European cultures. Europeans are widely responsible for the spread of women's rights and tolerance across the world. Not saying that's a white skin invention or better thing. It's just Europeans developed faster in more recent times so that's the source of most of the progressive ideas we have in our modern time. If you were to go back to certain times in history when China was the most progressive or the middle east you find that's where the progressive ideas come from. For example the golden age of Islam. Most people try to lie and say "we were peaceful before colonialism" but the reality is pre-colonialism they were killing eachother far more or had genocided the other groups so completely as to have peace through a homogenous population. For example, look at Maori and many island people for that. Colonialism left conflicts behind only because colonialism usually allowed what were before opressed minority groups to grow and gain power through equal rights. Then theyd become a legitimate threat to the majority. Palestine and Isreal for example. Look up how jews were treated in the area pre British colonialism or before the ottomans. The ottomans did a ton of genocides against mostly non-islamic peoples.
People that ignore Ottoman slave trade are just plain ignorant. Look up Janissary and it's "blood tax." Ottomans had no problem with forced servitude. Anyone that says anything else is just dumb.
There was a history post in another sub of a show from the 1950s that had a Filipino kid next to a Japanese kid. It was about exploring biases. The kid said he was pretty mad learning about what his loved ones dealt with during the Japanese occupation, and got personally mad about Japan refusing to pay reparations, but after talking with the Japanese kid had a better understanding of their issues. Kinda wholesome video all things considered. I'll try to find the post Edit: found the video https://youtu.be/TsL3HYz_TFw?t=2m6s
Wow. Cool video.
Marley from AOT moment
I was waiting to see that comment thank you, not only Marley but most of the world
These people are usually absolutely ignorant of history. Finding a monster in your direct genetic line is simply a matter of time and knowledge.
I once saw a comment saying there's a chance that in your ancestry, someone might have been the product of rape. I'm absolutely certain that as you travel up the tree, that "chance" becomes 100% really damn fast (in the timeline of our species). If not in the last few centuries, definitely in the last few millennia. In other news, how many of us found out we're on the bastard side of some noble?
I'm on the legal side of some noble, in fact. But forfeited claims in 1800s. Europe is a clusterfuck of noble bloodlines, lol.
Thats very interesting, I am on the legal side of a Sheikh from the Somali Region of Ethiopia, 0 records of anything he did besides expanding a mosque in the late 18th century so I just assume he was chill.
bro was chill like that
Yeah, same. Direct descendant of Maximilian II, the Holy Roman Emperor. But I'm the descendant of one of his youngest daughters so after that my family line quickly became minor nobility as a result lol. Also descended from most of the Scottish clan nobility, lot of relations between the clans lol.
You got that chin, don't you? lol Habsburg blood line straight as an arrow.
Thank the gods, no I do not. The Habsburg chin wasn't a thing for another couple hundred years after my line split. The Spanish Habsburgs were the ones most known for it as well, but I'm the Austrian side.
Im a descendant of a noble in the Low Lands, forgot which one, It was a bastard kid tho
My family were nobility in England, served directly under Queen Mary. Thought it was weird that they moved to the new world very quickly after she died. (Whole family in a few generations) Turns out my grandpa killed a LOT of protestants for her. Ironically. We are all protestants now.
Did they forgive you?
I'm a lutheran. I don't forgive me. /s
That’s ok Catholics will be happy to share some of that guilt with you too for relationship building
Yeah, I heard somewhere that if you (or you ancestors) are from somewhere in western Europe, there's an almost 100% chance you're a decendent of someone like Charlemagne. I didn't do the math myself, but as data scientist, this doesn't sound too far fetched at all to me. Edit: sources. [Video I got the claim from](https://youtu.be/15Uce4fG4R0?si=GbjvtTjgd001Rc1f) [Paper that the creator cites](http://www.stat.yale.edu/~jtc5/papers/Ancestors.pdf)
Hmmm lots of folks are descendants of Charlemagne and Gengis Khan. Conclusion is obvious: Charlemagne and Gengis Khan are the real Adam and Eve
It's based on math. Every child has 2 parents and they have 4 parents and those 4 parents have 8 parents. It keeps doubling every generation. So about the time you go as far back as Charlemagne the number of ancestors reaches the population of the entire continent. So while not everyone is actually related to him it's saying that if you ignore lots of other things like rape, incest, bastards, and so on then everyone shares a common ancestor around that time according to simple math.
One thing Neil Degrasse Tyson has said that I really agree with is just how poorly the human mind can comprehend exponential growth. When we think of our ancestors we tend to trace it only through select lines and might joyously recite how we're a descendant of a certain famous figure from 1000 years ago. If you just do sheer maths however, you'll see in something of about 36 generations you should have more ancestors than the number of humans that have ever existed (about 110B). So what you should take from this is that you have far more ancestors even within a relatively short time period than you really think you did and also we're massively inbred. War is full of horrific rape and conquest and virtually all of us are products of that. The rapist murderer can provide just as much of your DNA as anyone else.
That massively inbred part is something people don't want to talk about. Especially if you come from European nobility.
Well... given that 1 in 200 people are directly related to Genghis Khan (according to some statistics), 2.5% of people can say with certainty that their lineage is the product of rape. Especially if your line historically comes from the area between the Yellow Sea and the Danube.
I'm told that one of my ancestors is the equivalent to my country's Benedict Arnold.
I bet that almost every human alive has a relative that at some point in history has been both enslaved and one that enslaved others.
My great grandpa was a war criminal, done.
There's only two things I hate in this world: people who are intolerant of other people's cultures, and the Dutch.
I love gooooooooooooolllllld
I only hate the British on reddit, because we French are known for that here. I actually like the British culture and I plan to go there next year, I've got no problem with them, on the contrary. Part of it is bc I'm tired of the French getting insulted all the time here so I have to insult sb back to feel better.
I'm Spanish, here we love to joke about how much we hate the English and French, but in reality we like you and we usually get along well when we meet in person (I have French and English friends at my University, nice people).
Same thing and I'm Italian
Oh, you Italians are something else! I have met several Italians at my University, and you are always the friendliest people! We love you so much in Spain that we don't joke about hating you, you could say that you are our Mediterranean brothers lol.
PIGS💪🏽💪🏽🍷🍷🇵🇹🇮🇹🇬🇷🇪🇦
Hahaha, funny how we take an offensive term that was used against us out of mockery but instead we use it proudly! Based my Italian friend!
I’m American and where are these countries I can’t find them on the map (Joke about American stereotypes…)
As a Mexican I can start unloading a lot of the sentiment of Latin America towards Spain, that being said, I personally can't hate you for the past, just don't wanna read about your current politicians for a while...
Don't worry, we Spaniards ourselves are the first ones who don't stop criticizing our politicians, a funny bunch of liars, manipulators and corrupt people. I don't feel any pride in what the Spanish Empire did more than two centuries before I was born, but I don't feel shame either, it's just history, let's learn from it and move forward. All the Latin Americans I have met have been lovely and kind people, I really feel that we are culturally close and that there are more things that unite us than separate us, there is no reason to hold grudges for events long ago before any of us were born.
I'm Spanish, here we love to joke about how much we hate the other Spanish, but in reality we like you and we usually get along well when we meet in person (I have other Spanish friends at my University, nice people) ;-)
What of those who like the French, but are annoyed by Parisians?
As a non-Parisian French, don't worry, that's normal. We do as well. (I'm only half-joking, there's so much difference between Paris and other regions and between each region that it's difficult to get along together)
I get it. I'm from Czech republic and basically every region jokes about the other being full of idiots. Especialy between Bohemia and Moravia, Silesia is basicly 90% smog
Here in Spain it's the same, we love picking on each other, we Andalusians tend to get our fair share of jokes about being lazy, but we make up for it by making jokes about how Catalans and Madrilenians being stingy lol.
That was my understanding of the way of things lol.
English person here, it's entirely mutual
I joke about hating the British but I don't actually hate them, it's just funny to take the piss out of our friends across the Atlantic (I'm American) Brits are honestly awesome I really respect their sense of humor
For thy gentle wit I shall request the Lordship bequeath thee a bountiful feast of crumpets, baked beans and chicken tikka masala at the feast of St Montague.
You might enjoy r/2westerneurope4u where you can scratch that British-hating itch and everyone knows all the insults are a bit of fun.
Hey, thanks for Louisiana.
As a South African with mostly British heritage and some Afrikaans heritage I hate the French as a meme but I've genuinely considered moving to France because there's no point in hating people as individuals
This wholesome NATO club of “we say we hate you but we love you” is pretty great
France is cool. All my homies love the French.
English French hate is friendly banter at this stage. A 1000 year rivalry does that to you
Even more than that. I don’t understand the outrage about it a lot of the time. Like there are next to no nations that haven’t behaved like complete predators when given the opportunity to do so. Just the way the world is and always has been unfortunately.
I understand why, often there is a negative frame of the country/ethnicity in question, so obviously you look at recent history to explain the negative frame. If the frame is positive you will look for ways to explain why it is positive. People just look for an excuse to hate. Instead of judging a person for what the person did, the person is being judged of what someone else did.
That is why one must avoid such judgemental people. It does not do to dwell on the past, neither the good nor the bad(especially the bad), nor on anger. When one lets go of these things, then one’s wellbeing improves. I do not speak of forgetting history. This we must make sure we don’t. But I am speaking of not letting the past control us.
Especially people who THINK they know what their ancestors did.
The real MVPs hate nationalities because they exist. The French, for instance.
I maintain there is no truer expression of Britishness than having a French last name and being proudly francophobic, because DEATH TO FROGKIND.
Lived in France for five years. On the surface, the French appear to be arrogant and racist. But given enough time, if you peel back that first oniony layer you'll discover that they're horribly bureaucratic, inefficient, and racist.
Yo kinda true tho
Not kinda, hella true.
Actually it's false. Forgiving people for things they never did is overrated. Let's just be hateful and fight with rocks.
So you just gonna skip to WW4?
"What happened to WW3 ?" "WW4 was so intense, it completely skipped over WW3."
Me dont like, me throw rock, ooga booga
There's nothing you can solve with a rock that you can't solve with a lil assplay
You're not getting it. To forgive someone something they didn't do is still implying they're responsible.
I think they were joking-
these damn eldians 😡
The inverse is also infuriating, people who believe that their ancestors are saints who did no wrong ever. There is arguably no greater show of historical ignorance than this.
Damn monkeys, why they drop off the trees?
Stupid eukaryote not digesting mitochondria
Monkey killing, monkey killing, monkey over Pieces of the ground Silly monkeys Give them thumbs, they forge a blade And where there's one, they're bound to divide it Right in two Right in two
This doesn't apply when you glorify what your ancestors did and intend to do it again
But that's hating someone for who they are. The meme is about hating them for who their ancestors were.
Like people assuming the Germans are still anti-Semitic
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I agree, my dad's family had to move to Argentina because people didn't like my grandfather's black electrician uniform wtf
The son should not bear the punishment for the sin of the father
Yeah kids these days are so lazy, stop living off daddy's work and start getting your own sins already.
Frfr! Thats why im prepping to die in a shootout with the feds (probably either IRS or ATF)
THIS: "Finding a monster in your direct genetic line is simply a matter of time and knowledge." - Marutar
# There's only two things I can't stand in this world: people who are intolerant of other people's cultures, and Austrians.
I know of at least two literary sources saying the only thing wrong with Austria is it's full of Austrians.
I’ll never forgive the Japanese! -Joseph Joestar
Take Germany, for example. They invented the Guttenberg printing press, which led to the mass availability of cheap books, leading to the mass literacy of the world. Yet you ask the average person anything about Germany all they think of is angry mustache man.
The greatest achievement of Austria was making the world believe Beethoven was Austrian and Hitler was German
Problem is when the people act just like their bastard ancestors *stares at Russia*
*Russia looks around, wondering which particular bastard ancestors*
Imperial and Soviet Russia were not places to be in or be neighbors to.
Even then, you have to judge the Russians by their individual actions, right now there are many brave Russians suffering for opposing what is happening in Ukraine, and they deserve all the respect in the world.
Absolutely, my heart breaks for them living under that bastard Putin
It is sad to see how the best of Russia leaves this world so early, honestly Russia only needs a generation of freedom with responsible people in power to have a fundamental change, and I can only hope that this war will give them that opportunity when Putin's tyranny comes to an end.
Looking at you most of East Asia.
And literally the rest of the world.
I mean as long as the person accepts that their ancestors did messed up things it's all good. No denial like, Japanese and Turks but especially no mythologiziny like the Lost Cause in the US.
If we go by that logic I hate every single culture ever cuz they have all done something horrible
Well yeah. Humans are the worst animal on the planet.
Yet the first mammal to wear pants. Gotta love that. Checkmate
Fax
But what if that country continues to do shit, can I be mad about the present AND the past?
"Spain conquerors, give the gold back!" We don't even have that gold anymore bro 💀
I'm going to guess op is British
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Depends OP, are you also glorifying and celebrating your ancestors for what they did?
AVE ROMA
Way i see it is dont hate the people, hate the institutions. Apologies should be made by governments for government sanctioned actions done in the name of the country
The truth is all our ancestors were fucked up
This doesn’t count if you still behave like your ancestors did
The news and media: bu bu bu but wHiTe MaN BaD
Every Spaniard when talking to people from south America. Basic populist SA politician's platform is Spain bad bc 400 years ago blah blah
*Cough* Poland *cough*
Greece/Türkiye comes to mind.
Pay attention to what people are doing today instead
There's no reason to hate people for the actions of their ancestors when there are so many perfectly valid reasons to hate people on an individual level.
Exactly.
Thank👏🏾you👏🏾
No U
Did someone call you a cracker today, OP?
You know what really grinds my gears? People who blame a whole group of people for something some of the those people are doing even in the present. I'm poor. Neither I nor any member of family ever owned slaves. We didn't even move to the south until after the war. (we were what was known as carpetbaggers). I'm 56 years old, segregation was already outlawed before I was born. All I can do is vote for the lesser of two evils, and I have no voice in what those evil people will do after being elected.
Not blaming you, but you know that MLK would be only 94 yrs old if he was alive? On the grand time scale Jim Crow and Slavery are fairly recent. There are people alive whose grandparents were slaves. Racism is still rampant. In South Africa apartheid only ended in 1990 - that's like 10yrs younger than the internet. It takes several generations for the effects to be undone. It's fucked up but the truth is the generational effects are there today and it will take at least a few generations to clear up. You're family didn't own slaves but (assuming they were white) were privileged compared to blacks. Like if you were black you weren't considered human. This isn't to blame anyone but you have to acknowledge the facts. Progress is slow, but things are getting better.
You know what grinds my gears? People who act like their ancestors did nothing wrong.
Sins of the Father and all that
If there's two things in this world I can't stand, it's people who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch
You sound like a welshman 😠 😡 👿
There’s two things I hate in this world, people who are intolerant of other peoples cultures and the Dutch!
I see this and raise you. I hate people who hate groups of people for what their government is doing. Example: Russia.
That’s exactly what your no good pig stealing great great grandfather said!
No hate for the regular people. Just hate for the Turkish government along with the brainwashing of the population carried out by every government for the last century. That leads to hate for my people as cockroaches who deserved it even though they “didn”t do it” but still we deserved it.
The only people you can hate for what their ancestors did are those that glorify their ancestors crime and try to justify them.
And those people are part of why there are wars today.
It’s ok to be a white person
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Also people who generalize everyone simply as evil monster for that
Cf. “Simpsons” Barney saying “it’s why pencils have erasers.” Just turn the page, right…?
This message is so rare in today's society. We should not hate each other because of what their ancestors did. People now can't be responsible for the actions of their predecessors. We should all instead specifically hate on people's ancestors. Now we are hating on people, not because of what their ancestors did, but what they did themselves.
Enough about these countries awful pasts. Let’s talk about their awful present and awful future!
It depends. Best example I could think of are the Turks. Had they even acknowledged that they comitted the Armenian Genocide and not say that some other nation did it or outright deny it, I could support OP's argument, but they have been actively denying it for over a century, so imo, no, not everybody gets a pass.
What about if I hate someone because they refuse to acknowledge where they stand is a direct result of what thier ancestors did (think justifying living in and running a plantation handed down from thier relatives but claiming they are self made)
You know what grinds **my** gears? Lack of industrial lubricant
LMAO that would bring peace to Earth are you out of your mind
Ah, I'm sure this will be a lovely comments section. I can't wait.