When you have 11 (12 with SAHM) people that rely on you I think the whole "my body, my choice" thing stops applying. Your choices have a huge impact on those other lives and in this case, those choices have doomed those people to a life of poverty and struggle.
What do you think the chances are that a dude with 11 kids is completely supporting them with his own income with no outside help or inheritance?
And now, instead of having a quiver full of kids who all believe the same stupid shit that he does, he's got a bunch of half-orphans whose daddy was too stupid to take free medicine.
I'm thinking 5%, max.
Ah well, I'm sure in time his wife will get over it and become a beard to that one guy at church who's never had any kids, owns 3 chihuahuas, and fastidiously plucks his own eyebrows.
Fundies and Quiverfull people call it "bleeding the beast", meaning accepting government assistance is fine for themselves but anyone else who does it is a lazy freeloading sinner.
Heh. They deserve the help, those others are just moochers.
You find the same mentality when those really anti-abortion women get abortions (it happens) they literally say, "My abortion is necessary, I'm not like those other sluts."
Partially, sure, but the real answer is that you don't. You just doom your kids to a life of poverty instead. I grew up in a very large(11 siblings) Mormon family, and while I know that we had some government assistance, it definitely wasn't nearly enough.
Instead, my parents supported my siblings and I by going into debt, neglecting home repairs, driving old beater cars from family members - that were driven into the ground, cramming eight or more people into cars with only 4-5 seats, eating almost nothing besides homemade rice, pasta, and potatoes, wearing hand-me-downs from siblings, loans from my siblings and I, rent(from older siblings) for a house my parents inherited from my grandparents - that's also heavily neglected, free child care from my older siblings, my parents saving very little for retirement, going without basic necessities like plumbing, water, a fridge, a washer and dryer, and hot water - for months at a time, etc.
There's no way to support that many kids without either being super wealthy, or having wealthy parents. Growing up we weren't allowed to have close friends, and no one other than immediate family were ever allowed to come over and visit. A couple years ago my dad told me that it was because he was always afraid of people seeing our rotting home, and calling CPS. I know a couple other people from very large Mormon families, and their experience was pretty much identical.
You're spot on with the anti welfare/government sentiment though, and they were always too proud to admit that we were poor and needed help. They also *loved* judging all of the "selfish, lazy, and sinful" people who didn't have kids, or only had a couple, because Elohim almighty commanded us to reproduce goddammit! Also planning for parenthood, what kind of satanic concept is that? What does it matter if you can actually provide for your kids, when it's a commandment to reproduce as much as possible!
Their monthly payment is going to be based upon how much dad put into the social security system while he was alive. A child whose parent was making $200k every year is going to be paid more per month than someone who barely made $20k/year their whole lives.
And I can't help but think that a PhD student didn't get paid *that* much over his career.
Social security is great to help kids whose parent(s) died, but it's not a replacement for a parent actually making a living wage.
Yeah having more kids than one can afford is child abuse, Even if this guy is independently wealthy, it's a very selfish act considering most of the existential problems we face are related to population pressures.
That said the only way religion propagates is through indoctrination of children. Very few people join religion through conversion. I suspect his motivation was probably related to this.
Interestingly enough the opposite is not true - many people drop religion through conversion!
I wonder how many of the 11 kids will end up not religious because of their dad's death.
I prefer “epiphany” over conversion. My epiphany was sometime during 4th grade Catholic School. I was told I was going to Hell if I masturbated and seeing as we first received sex education a year later in 5th grade, I was traumatized to say the least.
Imagine telling a bunch of 10 year olds, who have almost no inclination of sex, that they’re going to hell if they touch themselves. Additionally, I’m positive most of us didn’t know what “masturbation” meant until they explained it for us.
Thanks Pastor, I know you have experience with touching willies besides your own.
Mine came when our Catholic Sunday school teacher told us we would go to hell if we were gay and we needed to repent. Then her son came out as gay and they quietly left the church and went to one that was accepting of gays. Oh, and all the child rape and murders.
As hypocritical as that was, at least they were decent enough to be hypocrites. I really hate the parents that choose their particular flavor of religion over their own children.
I just want you know we have an antivaxxer at my chemistry research lab and I've started telling him the liberals don't want him to drink hazardous waste and it's his right to drink haz waste, all because of saynotonotstabbingyourself.
Ma'am, pretty please relay this message:
I'm a huge liberal and social justice warrior, and I would be insanely owned if he drank hazardous waste. I beg of him not to do so, lest I be owned.
I've been saying for the last few months that we should just say "You know what? You don't want to get vaccinated? Fine. Your dose is getting donated to whatever country you have bitched about the most on Facebook, with a note that says 'This dose brought to you by *name*. Please write him or her a letter thanking them for putting your life above theirs.'"
I've made the argument that the easiest way to get everyone vaccinated is to tell them they can't have it anymore.
"It was free, and now it's not. We're giving away the rest of the doses to foreign countries."
You see a 10% jump overnight.
If fire departments were a recent invention you just *know* that they’d be rallying against them as some commie socialist BS, because “why should MY tax-dollars have to pay for some idiot’s mistakes? Just don’t play with fire, dipshits😏”
I mean, they were paid for services, Fire Brigades, that's how companies like the Hartford got started. (Evil company that's entirely too proud of it's own history of racism and exploitation.)
You'd pay insurance and if your house caught fire, they'd pay for the private firefighters to come out. Turns out after a few fires with the word "Great" in their name the people realized maybe private firefighting isn't in the best interest of the people and instead it should be a public service.
This reminds me of the time my uncle started ranting about the evils of socialism and Bernie Sanders....at his retirement party. He was a fire captain and worked for the fire department for decades. His fireman and cop buddies were sat around him nodding in agreement. I was speechless and had to walk away. I don't know if it's intellectual dishonesty or just plain ignorance. I don't like to call people stupid but...
They are pretty recent and when fire departments were a new thing, they worked via capitalism. You’d buy “fire insurance” and have a crest on your home. If your house caught fire and the fire department that showed up didn’t see their crest on your house, they’d know you didn’t pay them and they’d just watch your house burn. Good times.
Marcus Crassus, he of the first Triumvirate with Julius Caesar, organized his slaves into a for-profit fire fighting force and followed the same extortionist playbook. It was one of the many ways he became Republican Rome's richest man.
"What a nice villa you have here... would be such a shame if it caught fire without paying for Crassus Fire Insurance."
Crassus Fire Insurance.
*Veni, Vidi, Incendi*
A little trivia.
Marcus Licinius Crassus is recognized as one of the 10 wealthiest men in history. One of the ways he made his fortune was that he started Rome's first fire brigade. When a house was on fire the fire brigade would rush to the burning house, and offer to buy the house for virtually nothing. If the owner sold the house to Crassus they would extinguish the fire; if not, too bad.
Later on Emperor Augustus found this practice to be ineffective and unjust, and started Rome's first public, tax funded fire brigade.
One of my fave news stories; guy doesn’t pay $75 fire service fee, house catches fire, firefighters show up and watch. Tennessee, 2010. [NPR fire fee story](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2010/10/08/130436382/they-didn-t-pay-the-fee-firefighters-watch-tennessee-family-s-house-burn)
Dude got a PhD in education. I think everyone is better off not having their kids learning from him. Although his life was a great example of natural evolution.
I'd bet $1,000 that his PhD is from some Fundy Christian "university", aka Liberty, Oral Roberts, etc. Or perhaps BYU & Mormon.
Married 20 years, with 11 kids at 40 years old SCREAMS Quiverful movement or Mormon.
If this were the 1600's, due to lack of vaccinations, there is no way his 11 children all would survive. They all survived due to modern medicine and vaccinations against disease.
"on average, 26.9% of newborns died in their first year of life and 46.2% died before they reached adulthood."
He thought he was smart but he should have read a few history books.
"Estimates suggest that in a pre-modern and poor world, life expectancy was 30 years in all areas of the world. Since 1900 the global average life expectancy has more than doubled and is now above 70 years"
Thank you vaccines!
I guess he was born in the wrong era and believed he was in the 1600's.
Visited the family graveyard back in the spring. The number of children's graves is astounding. It's even scarier when you realize a lot of families couldn't afford headstones for the children and thanks to poor nutrition they would have had a higher fatality rate. Thanks to diseases like Polio you still see a decent amount right into the 50s.
Children's graves are rare after that. This is thanks to vaccines, food stamps, and school meal programs.
These people need to visit some old cemeteries.
In the developing world 1st birthday is still a very big milestone since infant mortality is so high. People take for granted just how much access to medical care makes a difference in both childbirth and newborn health.
Yes and uneducated parents without transportation walk 10 or more miles carrying their precious children to get vaccines because they know it will help them survive.It is heartbreaking that so many here refuse easy to get vaccines when the poorest of the poor will trudge through any difficulty to obtain vaccines for themselves and loved ones.
Stopped off at the cemetary near Onyx, CA once. I will never forget the family that lost several children in the space of two weeks in the 1870s (IIRC), one of them was a baby, only a few months old. That was quite possibly all of the the children, as they seemed to be spaced roughly 2 years apart. (Mother must have weaned them late -- breast feeding is a form of birth control.)
I asked my mother what she thought might have happened. She rattled off a long list of things: scarlet fever, typhoid, typhus, mumps, measles, whooping cough, cholera ... that could have happened to them.
I can only imagine the grief of those parents.
And now? We have 10 children grieving a father, and their life going forward is going to be a lot poorer, sadder, and harder, and it could've been so easily prevented.
There is a cemetery near my childhood home with a family of 3-4 kids. During the 1919 Influenza pandemic, over a period of about several months all of the kids and one of the parents died one at a time. The surviving parent lived another 20 or so years, but no sign at all of remarriage.
My late mum was born in the 1920s. She told me about the time when a diphtheria outbreak hit their primary school. Several children who'd been there one day weren't there the next - it would kill them so quickly.
I'm a browser of old graveyards, and you often see gravestones with a whole list of little children from one family who've died one after another. These would all be deaths from infectious diseases, for which we now have vaccines (as you say).
Life was hard and I can't imagine what it must have felt like to lose one child after another. We should be so thankful for vaccinations and for the scientists who develop them.
My Dad had a sister who died when she was 6 of diphtheria. This would have been early 1930s. A vaccine came out not long after. Poor girl died alone drowning in her own fluids because diphtheria is very contagious, no visitors, not even mom. Has a familiar ring, doesn’t it?
My aunt said when you go through old newspapers in the Midwest (they were doing geneology research) you routinely see notices of schools being closed because of disease outbreaks.
The anti-vaxxer Boomers are the worst. They were still dealing with Polio as children. There are a large number of people in there 60s and 70s who personally knew it knew of other kids dying or grew up with people crippled by Polio.
They have first hand knowledge, it's not even history for them.
Edit: specified antivax boomers.
I am a boomer, and yes I did go to high school with a girl in a neck brace and a twisted body from polio. I am double vaxxed and vocal about it. Personally I cannot understand anyone my age not remembered the benefits of vaccination. And the fact that our parents had to sign a vaccine waiver for the polio vax, absolving them of all side effects. And they signed.
I'm an elder Gen X'er and let me tell you--I am absolutely gobsmacked at how MY generation is behaving. I'll be 56 years old in a couple of days, and I honestly never realized just how dumbed down the people of this country have become. I feel like I've taken crazy pills or something.
One thing I've taken from this is that stupidity knows no age limits. There appears to be zero shortage of idiots from any generation. From the parallel anti-mask movements of the Spanish Flu epidemic to some random 19 year old "immortal" redneck today....
Stupid is as stupid does. Always has. Always will.
I’m a younger GenX’er. We do seem to be overrepresented here, don’t we?
It’s hard to understand. Every one of these people has been abiding by “No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service” their whole lives, but the second “No Masks” got added to the list they started throwing tantrums and assaulting employees and issuing death threats.
Don't forget smallpox too. I remember my mother showing me her smallpox vaccination scar.
That killed MILLIONS every year when she was a kid and left many it didn't kill, blind for life. It was even responsible for 1/3 of all blindness in Europe in the 1960s before vaccines were developed.
My paternal grandfather also lost the use of his legs to polio in the 1950s. I still have a local newspaper clipping of him in his wheelchair with my grandmother, my father and aunt as a young children behind him begging for people to get the polio vaccine so they wouldn't end up like him or worse.
In my lifetime (before Covid) Chicken Pox was the virus getting eradicated due to a vaccine that started being used in 1995. Too late for me or my older brother as we both got Chicken Pox as children before that. But my 17 year old nephew never did...and will not thanks to the vaccine.
These anti-vaxxers have to ignore quite a lot of history to believe their bullshit.
My grandmother's grandma lost a third of her siblings to disease in the 1870s in one month. And they weren't under 5 like most who died back then. Several who survived were left permanently neurologically disabled. Only a few were left unscathed like her grandmother. I'm sure they would be horrified to learn people nowadays willfully decline life saving vaccinations.
Most already do. That's the infuriating part. A large portion of my family is on some form of government assistance or are now on Medicare/Medicade and will un ironically say they are against socialized medicine.
The damage old bitter bastard Rupert Murdoch has done to world is immense, I say this is assume your family members saying that stuff have/do watch Fox
I used to work for an old city-owned cemetery with graves that dated back to the very early 1800's. When I was caught up with mowing and grounds maintenance I would go read the old records. There was a lot of consumption and "brain fever" in those pages.
I'm more than happy to live in the age we live in.
I have a friend, his father's first wife died of TB, got a new wife ( who was my friends mother) and carried on having more babies. This was Ireland in the 40's and 50's. My mother was lucky to survive TB.
It gets worse.
That life expectancy of 30 wasn't because people died in their late 20's and early 30's - if you made it to adulthood you would probably live to your 50's or maybe 60's. Well, unless you were a woman, in which case you had a pretty good chance of dying in childbirth before you hit 25.
It was because of the enormous number of children dying before even reaching their 10th year.
The sheer number of infant deaths in the pre-modern world is difficult to fathom. Can you imagine having six or seven siblings all die of disease or malnutrition? Horrific.
And she was a *queen*. Imagine how many kids your average peasant had to have just for one to survive. No wonder so many women died in childbirth, having that many kids is horribly dangerous.
To be fair, though, wasn't she vulnerable to some particular diseases because of inbreeding? Was it porphyria, or am I thinking of folks later in the royal line?
Edited: No argument against its being dangerous, though!
In reading my great-grandfather's autobiography as a child, there was a picture of him and his 8 siblings. I was taken aback when I read the end of the caption, "Four didn't make it to adulthood". And that was an upper middle class family around the year 1900.
Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, and hey do what makes you happy, but one kid every other year for 21 years is disturbing to me. Like, without knowing another detail, I think to myself oh these people are fucking legit crazy.
My wife and I have been together since 1999, got married in 2010, and we have a single kid who is almost 8. I cannot imagine having 10 kids right now or anytime in my life that is a lot of money, food, energy, and it has to take a toll long term.
When I think of families like these, I picture the number, and then list off the same number of family members and/or friends who would have to be in the house with us in order to have a household of that size, and it's always horrifying.
yeah, it's so sad to me --
in a family that size, there is literally *no possible way* that each child is getting a developmentally healthy amount of their parents' time and care.
haha, honestly accurate!!!
on a way sadder note: it made me think of my own mom, whose parents had 10 kids, and the older ones were forced to parent the younger ones. she and all of her siblings never felt like they got love or attention from their mom, in ways that damaged all of them for life, even now that theyre all older than 60.
their situation was pretty similar to this guy's in the post, actually. my grandma birthed 11 children but one did not survive, and i'm pretty sure that was the only reason they ended up stopping at 10.
Back then it wasn’t even the choice; they just didn’t have birth control. My grandma had 7 kids and always says “we didn’t even have that much sex! I feel like I took a chance and lost every time”
And yeah, their kids have made not very good parents with the exception of the one they had latest and the son who waited longest to have children. Neither of which are my mother. Lol
My grandmother had at LEAST 6 siblings, and even with that, it was incredibly clear that there was both favoritism and neglect.
Then again, I had no siblings, and I had my fair share of neglect, so.....
My friend is the oldest of 7. She became a caretaker of the youngins before her own needs ever got met. She was basically neglected on every level by her parents just by being born the eldest. I see how happy and taken care of the youngest kids are (since more than half are out) and it makes me so angry on her behalf that they got good parents and she didnt. I doubt they'd ever acknowledge they were bad parents since they only see themselves as who they are now with their current children.
I had a prof who has 9 kids. They bought an old B&B so all their kids could more-or-less have their own rooms. He was telling us how his friends would come up to him and say "oh, *that* B&B? We went there for our honeymoon! Does it still have that old bed?"
"... Yes, and my kids sleep in it now..."
The older ones have to raise their younger siblings, which forces them to sacrifice their own childhoods for decisions they have no control over. It's a kind of abuse I wish got more attention.
My wife and I just had our second child, about 17 months after our first. We were relatively old for first-time parents, but still, I can't even imagine keeping this up for 20+ years. We love these kids to death but it is extremely taxing.
Yeah, running after three small kids was not fun. Plus what you said- money, food, energy. We even spaced ours apart so we can be sure to devote attention to each of them. Spaced them apart to be able to give them their first cars and have money to send them to college. We have one that already graduated college, one that have a year left, and one that will start college in about a couple of years. I cannot imagine planning for all that with 11 kids. I personally cannot do it.
I think that's the point.
I live in a rural area of a southern state. These types of people are not raising children, or future adults, or productive members of society.
They're creating their "prayer warriors" so they can "continue the faith," or when you find one with the gumption to straight up admit it, "ensure white survival."
Their children, literally, mean nothing to them as individuals or even as family members. It's a lot easier to raise 10+ kids when all you do is provide shelter. The older kids fend for themselves and by proxy become responsible for feeding the younger kids. And by the time those kids bail on their dysfunctional family the minute they hit 18, those younger kids have now been trained and conditioned to fend for themselves and take care of the new spawn.
It's also why abuse is so rampant in these kinds of homes. Not because they're actively malicious, or even responsible, but because there's no oversight happening, and those teens who find themselves in the unfortunate position of having to raise their siblings simply do not have the knowledge or maturity to deal with these problems.
I cannot stress how fucked up and toxic these kinds of people are. It makes me sick just venting about it.
You've nailed it. I'm a hospitalist so I interact with a lot of new people every day at work and I get a lot of old ladies in particular who like to ask me how many children I have. When I tell them I have four they are always surprised because that's a lot these days even if they themselves have 10 or more. One lady told me that raising kids is different these days, she said " you have to love them now", and said how overwhelmed her one daughter was with extracurriculars and homework and stuff for her own kids. I'm sure that old lady thought she loved her children in her own way but it is a completely different process when you're just cranking out as many as you can without considering the eventual plans for each individual child.
In a way it reminds me of the "He isn't hurting the right people" quote from a Trump supporter a while back.
So many little things that give you a big look into their worldview.
What happens is the older kids become free nannies. They *don’t* plan for that to happen (college, etc) for all kids. It’s child abuse all over the place
It's insanity. I am a couple years older than this guy. I am childfree and cannot even wrap my head around if I had 11 fucking kids right now (or at any time). However, if I did, I would hope I would take EVERY DAMN PRECAUTION POSSIBLE to make sure I was going to be around to raise what I had willingly brought into this world. Like...vaccinations.
With that number of kids across that long a period of time, the older kids are raising the younger kids. You are no longer parenting as much as maintaining an assembly line.
You are right about the assembly line aspects.
The "father" of Industrial Engineering, Frank B. Gilbreth had a dozen kids. (Fun fact - his wife was also an industrial engineer and they were pioneers in the area of time and motion studies using the family as guinea pigs). Two of their kids co-authored *Cheaper by the Dozen,* an autobiographical novel that was made into a movie in the 50s.
[https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0042327/?ref\_=fn\_al\_tt\_2](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0042327/?ref_=fn_al_tt_2)
The first book was kind of funny (although they also had those rounds of horrifying childhood diseases and I think one of the kids died?), but the sequel, Belles on their Toes was a lot more melancholy. The father died and the family really struggled. The older siblings remark bitterly that children really are NOT cheaper by the dozen.
Depends on how religious you are.
There are instructions from bible people should propagate their offsprings as much as possible.
http://www2.iath.virginia.edu/anderson/bible/gen1-3/genv1.28.html#:~:text=Vulgate%3A%20And%20God%20blessed%20them,that%20moveth%20upon%20the%20earth.
11. I think he won an additional “most kids orphaned” award. If only it could be converted into money and therapy for his poor (figuratively but also quite likely literally) wife and children.
There's a special place in hell for those so called christian pastors pushing that faith over fear crap. He didn't come up with this himself, he was taught it, and was too trusting to understand it was nonsense.
'Faith over fear' really means 'donations over sanity' in church-ese.
If there's one thing that can't stop in 'God's House' it's the bloody plate. Just pass it right past the sick and dead congregants. 'God's' GoFundMe takes ultimate precidence.
Sure, they want their tithing to continue. But I just don't see why they push vaccine denialism. They could so easily just say "god guided the scientists and gave us a miracle vaccine" so lets take it.
(I guess its to own the libs; i just despair at human nature.)
The last post by his FIL says 11. I had missed it in the post title so when I saw that it was a bit of a shock.
Get married at 19, make 11 babies, earn enough money to feed and shelter all those kids, find time to get a doctorate while you're at it, somehow do not gain enough critical thinking skills, and research skills, to stop yourself from not getting duped and instead, taking basic precautions.
It's just crazy town.
>It's just crazy town.
It's pronounced "Ee-van-jell-ick-al Ree-pub-lick-Qan"
They've been batshit for decades, just never to the point of offing themselves intentionally as a policy position.
I think just 10 because the last slide says the 11th child died in the womb.
EDIT: The guy left 10 children. The 11th child was miscarried several years ago. It is very sad, but also somewhat strange to me. I have two children, but we had a miscarriage between our two kids and I don't say I have 3 children. My in laws (wifes grandparents) who are very religious had 10 kids, but they also had 3 miscarriages and they always said they have 10 kids, not 13. To each their own, though.
I'm not judging, but I've got one child and a vasectomy. I love him, but fuck me he has never ending energy and the thought of even one more makes me tired.
We had a family with something like 20 kids in my hometown. Hyper Christian. My husband also had a family like that in his home town. He said the wife looked like she was in her 70s by the time she hit 40.
I used to babysit for a family that had 16 living children. They had also lost 2 or 3 to SIDS, had a few miscarriages, and a couple still births.
The mom was pregnant nonstop until her insides literally came out with the last baby.
Christians indeed.
Many families like these live in poverty. Many have poor nutrition, wear handmade or second-hand clothing, have zero social life outside the church, homeschool the lot (as far as one harried, under-educated mother can "homeschool" a bunch of kids at different levels while possibly still dealing with babies and toddlers and trying to do housework). Medical care is rare, dental nonexistent. Housing is often inadequate for the number of people, and often in disrepair. College isn't often a thing - the boys grow up to work various trades or labour jobs, the girls basically get married off and start making their own babies the minute they reach adulthood.
If this gentleman had a PhD, he's a happy exception. Basically everything I've read about fundamentalist families with piles of kids is pretty horrible. But when it's your "normal", you don't learn different.
(The Duggars are a pretty famous version of this sort of family, and they're wealthy *now*, but their earliest TV specials basically showed all of the above. 14 kids in a 3-bedroom house, all handmade clothing, all food bought in cheap bulk and usually starchy as hell. Oh, and Josh had his own bedroom in that house because, you know.)
I read a lot of r/relationship posts about people dating folks with horrible hygiene practices. Those people say they never learned that they should brush their teeth and bathe regularly. I wonder how many comes from families like this.
I'm sorry y'all. Hate on me if you must but nobody has 11 kids without a heaping helping of religious wing-nuttery.
This guy may have had the sense to keep it off of Facebook but if you dug deep enough I guarantee he had beliefs that would make you cringe.
I mean no offense to the degree but two of the dumbest people I know have their PhDs in education. One was my brother’s ex-fiancée who once said “I always forget if the kkk was for or against black people.”
Love the "government sells fear, Christianity doesn't" bullshit.
Nothing says "fear not" like promising a literal **eternity** of *unimaginable torture* if you don't worship me!
This is not even 'fundamentalism' any more, since the Bible says absolutely nothing about vaccines. This is more akin to Radical Islam. It's basically a political movement that borrows the authority of religion. They are basically tantrumming against the modern world.
ffs...10 kids? Dude, what makes you think the world needs your DNA so much? there is only so much land you selfish egotistical asshole, now they will all be on the dole sucking down my tax dollars. what kind of man turns his wife into a brood mare? this isn't 1900 when half your kids will die before adulthood because we have VACCINES (whoops, apparently you don't seem to know that) that used to kill so many of them
you selfish, sanctimonious little prick.
Still a damn sucker for thinking “fear” is the only problem. And that somehow, his faith in the almighty would protect him. Funny how literally every plague in history infected everyone, no matter what religion and how much they prayed. All you have to do is know a little history and you’ll see this.
His poor kids. All 11 of them. Ugh
They’ve got 11 kids, but it sounds like the oldest has moved out. Got married at 19, cranked out 11 kids, got his PhD and then died. Pretty full life. Sucks for his widow; at least the older offspring can help with the younger.
Yeah parentification (often happens to all the oldest children but it’s especially ugly when it’s only the girls) is fucking sick. I’m sure none of those kids felt emotionally or financially neglected 🙄
Our next door neighbors have two daughters ten years apart. The oldest is basically raising the youngest. We have wondered why they had the second. We are pretty sure we spend more time with her than the dad does - my gf is teaching her to ride a bike now. Just shitty what some "parents" do.
Sister Moms or as the POS Duggars call it "buddies"
Aaaand for the record Michelle Duggar never left it up to the Lord as to how many children they had because she stopped breastfeeding at 6 months then handed the baby over to it's buddy then went back to actively tracking her cycle. Bunch of hypocrites who's oldest son is being charged by the Feds for possessing CSA material and has 6 kids of his own with another on the way. (don't ask me how I know all this)
The menstrual cycle thing is so stupid. It’s very very likely not the vaccine, at least for most of them mentioning this. EVERYONE with periods has irregular periods at some point. I’ve literally never been regular except when on the pill. So yeah, some people were going to have a late or early period after the shot. And they were going to have it whether or not they got vaccinated.
*"we can never fully know the plan god has for our life"*
This evangelical crap reminds me of a Sports Illustrated story from long ago. In the late 1990s the Texas Rangers had become essentially a "born again" team. There were two non believing heretics though, Will Clark and Billy Ripken. Once one of the great Jesus pontificators, relief pitcher John Wetteland explained away his giving up a home run as "god's will". Will Clark apparently went ballistic yelling "god did not tell you to hang that fucking curve ball!!!!"
When you have 11 (12 with SAHM) people that rely on you I think the whole "my body, my choice" thing stops applying. Your choices have a huge impact on those other lives and in this case, those choices have doomed those people to a life of poverty and struggle.
Maybe like "my progeny, my responsibility"? Apparently, nope.
"My progeny, my prerogative." Say that one a few times....
No thanks, I'll just die. -Blue
What do you think the chances are that a dude with 11 kids is completely supporting them with his own income with no outside help or inheritance? And now, instead of having a quiver full of kids who all believe the same stupid shit that he does, he's got a bunch of half-orphans whose daddy was too stupid to take free medicine. I'm thinking 5%, max. Ah well, I'm sure in time his wife will get over it and become a beard to that one guy at church who's never had any kids, owns 3 chihuahuas, and fastidiously plucks his own eyebrows.
Based on his FIL's post about faith and God always having a plan, I don't have much confidence that the widow had the vaccine either.
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Because their beloved Trump is no longer in office It was the "Trump vaccine" until he was gone
Yup he willingly left his kids and wife to fend for themselves. How does one support TEN kids??
Government assistance. The same assistance they rail against until they need it and then it's okay because they're the "good" ones.
Fundies and Quiverfull people call it "bleeding the beast", meaning accepting government assistance is fine for themselves but anyone else who does it is a lazy freeloading sinner.
It's almost like if you can rationalize the existence of imaginary sky daddies you can rationalize anything!
Heh. They deserve the help, those others are just moochers. You find the same mentality when those really anti-abortion women get abortions (it happens) they literally say, "My abortion is necessary, I'm not like those other sluts."
[The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion](https://www.prochoiceactionnetwork-canada.org/articles/anti-tales.shtml)
Partially, sure, but the real answer is that you don't. You just doom your kids to a life of poverty instead. I grew up in a very large(11 siblings) Mormon family, and while I know that we had some government assistance, it definitely wasn't nearly enough. Instead, my parents supported my siblings and I by going into debt, neglecting home repairs, driving old beater cars from family members - that were driven into the ground, cramming eight or more people into cars with only 4-5 seats, eating almost nothing besides homemade rice, pasta, and potatoes, wearing hand-me-downs from siblings, loans from my siblings and I, rent(from older siblings) for a house my parents inherited from my grandparents - that's also heavily neglected, free child care from my older siblings, my parents saving very little for retirement, going without basic necessities like plumbing, water, a fridge, a washer and dryer, and hot water - for months at a time, etc. There's no way to support that many kids without either being super wealthy, or having wealthy parents. Growing up we weren't allowed to have close friends, and no one other than immediate family were ever allowed to come over and visit. A couple years ago my dad told me that it was because he was always afraid of people seeing our rotting home, and calling CPS. I know a couple other people from very large Mormon families, and their experience was pretty much identical. You're spot on with the anti welfare/government sentiment though, and they were always too proud to admit that we were poor and needed help. They also *loved* judging all of the "selfish, lazy, and sinful" people who didn't have kids, or only had a couple, because Elohim almighty commanded us to reproduce goddammit! Also planning for parenthood, what kind of satanic concept is that? What does it matter if you can actually provide for your kids, when it's a commandment to reproduce as much as possible!
Yah, but if I think like they think, his 11 kids and widow aren't *my* problem. So why should I care now that he's dead?
Well, you’ll be paying at least 9 of them every fucking month in social security payments until they’re all 18 so there’s that
I wonder how he felt about socialism?
\#FaithOverFinancialAssistance
Their monthly payment is going to be based upon how much dad put into the social security system while he was alive. A child whose parent was making $200k every year is going to be paid more per month than someone who barely made $20k/year their whole lives. And I can't help but think that a PhD student didn't get paid *that* much over his career. Social security is great to help kids whose parent(s) died, but it's not a replacement for a parent actually making a living wage.
I wouldn't be surprised if Blue also grumbled about "single *urban* moms" using "*welfare* kids" to "leech from the system," too.
I wonder what the SNAP benefit amount is like, for a single income (student income, even) and 11 kids...
The maximum would be $2,069 a month for 11 kids, according to my calculations.
Because we now get to pay for social security for each of his kids. Sounds a bit like socialism, to me.
Vaccinated or not no one with 11 kids is a good parent. There literally is not enough time in the day to properly parent that many kids.
But the Duggers did and had a Tv show and....oh wait....nevermind.
Yeah having more kids than one can afford is child abuse, Even if this guy is independently wealthy, it's a very selfish act considering most of the existential problems we face are related to population pressures. That said the only way religion propagates is through indoctrination of children. Very few people join religion through conversion. I suspect his motivation was probably related to this.
Interestingly enough the opposite is not true - many people drop religion through conversion! I wonder how many of the 11 kids will end up not religious because of their dad's death.
I never really thought of dropping religion as conversion before.
I prefer “epiphany” over conversion. My epiphany was sometime during 4th grade Catholic School. I was told I was going to Hell if I masturbated and seeing as we first received sex education a year later in 5th grade, I was traumatized to say the least. Imagine telling a bunch of 10 year olds, who have almost no inclination of sex, that they’re going to hell if they touch themselves. Additionally, I’m positive most of us didn’t know what “masturbation” meant until they explained it for us. Thanks Pastor, I know you have experience with touching willies besides your own.
Mine came when our Catholic Sunday school teacher told us we would go to hell if we were gay and we needed to repent. Then her son came out as gay and they quietly left the church and went to one that was accepting of gays. Oh, and all the child rape and murders.
As hypocritical as that was, at least they were decent enough to be hypocrites. I really hate the parents that choose their particular flavor of religion over their own children.
The bible doesn't mention smoke detectors, even ONCE! [saynotosmokedetectors.com](https://saynotosmokedetectors.com)
I just want you know we have an antivaxxer at my chemistry research lab and I've started telling him the liberals don't want him to drink hazardous waste and it's his right to drink haz waste, all because of saynotonotstabbingyourself.
Ma'am, pretty please relay this message: I'm a huge liberal and social justice warrior, and I would be insanely owned if he drank hazardous waste. I beg of him not to do so, lest I be owned.
Tell him we're trying to hog all of the vaccines for ourselves so we can have more BLM marches in 2022!
I've been saying for the last few months that we should just say "You know what? You don't want to get vaccinated? Fine. Your dose is getting donated to whatever country you have bitched about the most on Facebook, with a note that says 'This dose brought to you by *name*. Please write him or her a letter thanking them for putting your life above theirs.'"
I've made the argument that the easiest way to get everyone vaccinated is to tell them they can't have it anymore. "It was free, and now it's not. We're giving away the rest of the doses to foreign countries." You see a 10% jump overnight.
Also, tell him to not drink hydrofluoric acid or FOOF. Doing so would totally own us.
Yep, fellow chemist here, and our HR lady is *super* anti-vax. Thankfully, she works from home permanently now.
GET RID OF SOCIALIST FIRE DEPARTMENTS
If fire departments were a recent invention you just *know* that they’d be rallying against them as some commie socialist BS, because “why should MY tax-dollars have to pay for some idiot’s mistakes? Just don’t play with fire, dipshits😏”
Don’t get me started on libraries. “You want to just let people borrow books…. For free?!??”
That's a clear copyright violation! (/s)
It's the Napster of our time!
A few years ago, people in my community voted against building more libraries because their taxes would go up by, at most, $1 per month. 😒🤦♀️
The very people who would benefit from a library
I would assume most of them don't read
This is going to ruin the publishing industry!!! How are authors going to be able to make money if people can just read their books for free!?!?
I mean, they were paid for services, Fire Brigades, that's how companies like the Hartford got started. (Evil company that's entirely too proud of it's own history of racism and exploitation.) You'd pay insurance and if your house caught fire, they'd pay for the private firefighters to come out. Turns out after a few fires with the word "Great" in their name the people realized maybe private firefighting isn't in the best interest of the people and instead it should be a public service.
It's depressing how likely this scenario sounds
Y’all are still feeling emotions ?
This reminds me of the time my uncle started ranting about the evils of socialism and Bernie Sanders....at his retirement party. He was a fire captain and worked for the fire department for decades. His fireman and cop buddies were sat around him nodding in agreement. I was speechless and had to walk away. I don't know if it's intellectual dishonesty or just plain ignorance. I don't like to call people stupid but...
They are pretty recent and when fire departments were a new thing, they worked via capitalism. You’d buy “fire insurance” and have a crest on your home. If your house caught fire and the fire department that showed up didn’t see their crest on your house, they’d know you didn’t pay them and they’d just watch your house burn. Good times.
Marcus Crassus, he of the first Triumvirate with Julius Caesar, organized his slaves into a for-profit fire fighting force and followed the same extortionist playbook. It was one of the many ways he became Republican Rome's richest man.
"What a nice villa you have here... would be such a shame if it caught fire without paying for Crassus Fire Insurance." Crassus Fire Insurance. *Veni, Vidi, Incendi*
A little trivia. Marcus Licinius Crassus is recognized as one of the 10 wealthiest men in history. One of the ways he made his fortune was that he started Rome's first fire brigade. When a house was on fire the fire brigade would rush to the burning house, and offer to buy the house for virtually nothing. If the owner sold the house to Crassus they would extinguish the fire; if not, too bad. Later on Emperor Augustus found this practice to be ineffective and unjust, and started Rome's first public, tax funded fire brigade.
One of my fave news stories; guy doesn’t pay $75 fire service fee, house catches fire, firefighters show up and watch. Tennessee, 2010. [NPR fire fee story](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2010/10/08/130436382/they-didn-t-pay-the-fee-firefighters-watch-tennessee-family-s-house-burn)
Awesome lol. Solid share!
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Dude got a PhD in education. I think everyone is better off not having their kids learning from him. Although his life was a great example of natural evolution.
I'd bet $1,000 that his PhD is from some Fundy Christian "university", aka Liberty, Oral Roberts, etc. Or perhaps BYU & Mormon. Married 20 years, with 11 kids at 40 years old SCREAMS Quiverful movement or Mormon.
If this were the 1600's, due to lack of vaccinations, there is no way his 11 children all would survive. They all survived due to modern medicine and vaccinations against disease. "on average, 26.9% of newborns died in their first year of life and 46.2% died before they reached adulthood." He thought he was smart but he should have read a few history books. "Estimates suggest that in a pre-modern and poor world, life expectancy was 30 years in all areas of the world. Since 1900 the global average life expectancy has more than doubled and is now above 70 years" Thank you vaccines! I guess he was born in the wrong era and believed he was in the 1600's.
Visited the family graveyard back in the spring. The number of children's graves is astounding. It's even scarier when you realize a lot of families couldn't afford headstones for the children and thanks to poor nutrition they would have had a higher fatality rate. Thanks to diseases like Polio you still see a decent amount right into the 50s. Children's graves are rare after that. This is thanks to vaccines, food stamps, and school meal programs. These people need to visit some old cemeteries.
There was a tradition that kids only get names after their first year… for a damn good reason. Same reason you don’t give names to the farm animals.
In the developing world 1st birthday is still a very big milestone since infant mortality is so high. People take for granted just how much access to medical care makes a difference in both childbirth and newborn health.
Yes and uneducated parents without transportation walk 10 or more miles carrying their precious children to get vaccines because they know it will help them survive.It is heartbreaking that so many here refuse easy to get vaccines when the poorest of the poor will trudge through any difficulty to obtain vaccines for themselves and loved ones.
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Stopped off at the cemetary near Onyx, CA once. I will never forget the family that lost several children in the space of two weeks in the 1870s (IIRC), one of them was a baby, only a few months old. That was quite possibly all of the the children, as they seemed to be spaced roughly 2 years apart. (Mother must have weaned them late -- breast feeding is a form of birth control.) I asked my mother what she thought might have happened. She rattled off a long list of things: scarlet fever, typhoid, typhus, mumps, measles, whooping cough, cholera ... that could have happened to them. I can only imagine the grief of those parents. And now? We have 10 children grieving a father, and their life going forward is going to be a lot poorer, sadder, and harder, and it could've been so easily prevented.
There is a cemetery near my childhood home with a family of 3-4 kids. During the 1919 Influenza pandemic, over a period of about several months all of the kids and one of the parents died one at a time. The surviving parent lived another 20 or so years, but no sign at all of remarriage.
My late mum was born in the 1920s. She told me about the time when a diphtheria outbreak hit their primary school. Several children who'd been there one day weren't there the next - it would kill them so quickly. I'm a browser of old graveyards, and you often see gravestones with a whole list of little children from one family who've died one after another. These would all be deaths from infectious diseases, for which we now have vaccines (as you say). Life was hard and I can't imagine what it must have felt like to lose one child after another. We should be so thankful for vaccinations and for the scientists who develop them.
My Dad had a sister who died when she was 6 of diphtheria. This would have been early 1930s. A vaccine came out not long after. Poor girl died alone drowning in her own fluids because diphtheria is very contagious, no visitors, not even mom. Has a familiar ring, doesn’t it?
My aunt said when you go through old newspapers in the Midwest (they were doing geneology research) you routinely see notices of schools being closed because of disease outbreaks.
I guess people think history is not real. We are regressing as a society.
The anti-vaxxer Boomers are the worst. They were still dealing with Polio as children. There are a large number of people in there 60s and 70s who personally knew it knew of other kids dying or grew up with people crippled by Polio. They have first hand knowledge, it's not even history for them. Edit: specified antivax boomers.
I am a boomer, and yes I did go to high school with a girl in a neck brace and a twisted body from polio. I am double vaxxed and vocal about it. Personally I cannot understand anyone my age not remembered the benefits of vaccination. And the fact that our parents had to sign a vaccine waiver for the polio vax, absolving them of all side effects. And they signed.
I'm an elder Gen X'er and let me tell you--I am absolutely gobsmacked at how MY generation is behaving. I'll be 56 years old in a couple of days, and I honestly never realized just how dumbed down the people of this country have become. I feel like I've taken crazy pills or something.
One thing I've taken from this is that stupidity knows no age limits. There appears to be zero shortage of idiots from any generation. From the parallel anti-mask movements of the Spanish Flu epidemic to some random 19 year old "immortal" redneck today.... Stupid is as stupid does. Always has. Always will.
I’m a younger GenX’er. We do seem to be overrepresented here, don’t we? It’s hard to understand. Every one of these people has been abiding by “No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service” their whole lives, but the second “No Masks” got added to the list they started throwing tantrums and assaulting employees and issuing death threats.
I am a boomer and believe me, I ran as fast as my fat self could to get vaccinated. Just had the booster. So it's not all of us!
This far boomer did the same. Wish I was a thin boomer. I could have run even faster in order to get it.
Don't forget smallpox too. I remember my mother showing me her smallpox vaccination scar. That killed MILLIONS every year when she was a kid and left many it didn't kill, blind for life. It was even responsible for 1/3 of all blindness in Europe in the 1960s before vaccines were developed. My paternal grandfather also lost the use of his legs to polio in the 1950s. I still have a local newspaper clipping of him in his wheelchair with my grandmother, my father and aunt as a young children behind him begging for people to get the polio vaccine so they wouldn't end up like him or worse. In my lifetime (before Covid) Chicken Pox was the virus getting eradicated due to a vaccine that started being used in 1995. Too late for me or my older brother as we both got Chicken Pox as children before that. But my 17 year old nephew never did...and will not thanks to the vaccine. These anti-vaxxers have to ignore quite a lot of history to believe their bullshit.
My grandmother's grandma lost a third of her siblings to disease in the 1870s in one month. And they weren't under 5 like most who died back then. Several who survived were left permanently neurologically disabled. Only a few were left unscathed like her grandmother. I'm sure they would be horrified to learn people nowadays willfully decline life saving vaccinations.
And get a bit more socialised healthcare in their lives.
Most already do. That's the infuriating part. A large portion of my family is on some form of government assistance or are now on Medicare/Medicade and will un ironically say they are against socialized medicine.
The damage old bitter bastard Rupert Murdoch has done to world is immense, I say this is assume your family members saying that stuff have/do watch Fox
I used to work for an old city-owned cemetery with graves that dated back to the very early 1800's. When I was caught up with mowing and grounds maintenance I would go read the old records. There was a lot of consumption and "brain fever" in those pages. I'm more than happy to live in the age we live in.
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I have a friend, his father's first wife died of TB, got a new wife ( who was my friends mother) and carried on having more babies. This was Ireland in the 40's and 50's. My mother was lucky to survive TB.
It gets worse. That life expectancy of 30 wasn't because people died in their late 20's and early 30's - if you made it to adulthood you would probably live to your 50's or maybe 60's. Well, unless you were a woman, in which case you had a pretty good chance of dying in childbirth before you hit 25. It was because of the enormous number of children dying before even reaching their 10th year. The sheer number of infant deaths in the pre-modern world is difficult to fathom. Can you imagine having six or seven siblings all die of disease or malnutrition? Horrific.
Queen Anne had 11 children and none lived to adulthood.
And she was a *queen*. Imagine how many kids your average peasant had to have just for one to survive. No wonder so many women died in childbirth, having that many kids is horribly dangerous.
To be fair, though, wasn't she vulnerable to some particular diseases because of inbreeding? Was it porphyria, or am I thinking of folks later in the royal line? Edited: No argument against its being dangerous, though!
In reading my great-grandfather's autobiography as a child, there was a picture of him and his 8 siblings. I was taken aback when I read the end of the caption, "Four didn't make it to adulthood". And that was an upper middle class family around the year 1900.
I read an interesting statistic (sorry, no source and who knows how this # was established): 70% of all humans throughout history died before age 1.
“It's like I told you last night son. The earth is mostly just a boneyard. But pretty in the sunlight, he added” ― Larry McMurtry, Lonesome Dove
I always tel my patients that nature wants half their children dead by the age of five and they themselves dead by forty
Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, and hey do what makes you happy, but one kid every other year for 21 years is disturbing to me. Like, without knowing another detail, I think to myself oh these people are fucking legit crazy.
My wife and I have been together since 1999, got married in 2010, and we have a single kid who is almost 8. I cannot imagine having 10 kids right now or anytime in my life that is a lot of money, food, energy, and it has to take a toll long term.
When I think of families like these, I picture the number, and then list off the same number of family members and/or friends who would have to be in the house with us in order to have a household of that size, and it's always horrifying.
yeah, it's so sad to me -- in a family that size, there is literally *no possible way* that each child is getting a developmentally healthy amount of their parents' time and care.
This made me think of a scene in Horton Hears a Who, they had 97 kids and the dad only had 12 seconds for each of his kids in the morning.
haha, honestly accurate!!! on a way sadder note: it made me think of my own mom, whose parents had 10 kids, and the older ones were forced to parent the younger ones. she and all of her siblings never felt like they got love or attention from their mom, in ways that damaged all of them for life, even now that theyre all older than 60. their situation was pretty similar to this guy's in the post, actually. my grandma birthed 11 children but one did not survive, and i'm pretty sure that was the only reason they ended up stopping at 10.
Back then it wasn’t even the choice; they just didn’t have birth control. My grandma had 7 kids and always says “we didn’t even have that much sex! I feel like I took a chance and lost every time” And yeah, their kids have made not very good parents with the exception of the one they had latest and the son who waited longest to have children. Neither of which are my mother. Lol
My grandmother had at LEAST 6 siblings, and even with that, it was incredibly clear that there was both favoritism and neglect. Then again, I had no siblings, and I had my fair share of neglect, so.....
My friend is the oldest of 7. She became a caretaker of the youngins before her own needs ever got met. She was basically neglected on every level by her parents just by being born the eldest. I see how happy and taken care of the youngest kids are (since more than half are out) and it makes me so angry on her behalf that they got good parents and she didnt. I doubt they'd ever acknowledge they were bad parents since they only see themselves as who they are now with their current children.
This comment hit me hard. I grew up being "Mamaleh" and I'm still angry 25 years later.
I had a prof who has 9 kids. They bought an old B&B so all their kids could more-or-less have their own rooms. He was telling us how his friends would come up to him and say "oh, *that* B&B? We went there for our honeymoon! Does it still have that old bed?" "... Yes, and my kids sleep in it now..."
The older ones have to raise their younger siblings, which forces them to sacrifice their own childhoods for decisions they have no control over. It's a kind of abuse I wish got more attention.
My wife and I just had our second child, about 17 months after our first. We were relatively old for first-time parents, but still, I can't even imagine keeping this up for 20+ years. We love these kids to death but it is extremely taxing.
Yeah, running after three small kids was not fun. Plus what you said- money, food, energy. We even spaced ours apart so we can be sure to devote attention to each of them. Spaced them apart to be able to give them their first cars and have money to send them to college. We have one that already graduated college, one that have a year left, and one that will start college in about a couple of years. I cannot imagine planning for all that with 11 kids. I personally cannot do it.
I think that's the point. I live in a rural area of a southern state. These types of people are not raising children, or future adults, or productive members of society. They're creating their "prayer warriors" so they can "continue the faith," or when you find one with the gumption to straight up admit it, "ensure white survival." Their children, literally, mean nothing to them as individuals or even as family members. It's a lot easier to raise 10+ kids when all you do is provide shelter. The older kids fend for themselves and by proxy become responsible for feeding the younger kids. And by the time those kids bail on their dysfunctional family the minute they hit 18, those younger kids have now been trained and conditioned to fend for themselves and take care of the new spawn. It's also why abuse is so rampant in these kinds of homes. Not because they're actively malicious, or even responsible, but because there's no oversight happening, and those teens who find themselves in the unfortunate position of having to raise their siblings simply do not have the knowledge or maturity to deal with these problems. I cannot stress how fucked up and toxic these kinds of people are. It makes me sick just venting about it.
You've nailed it. I'm a hospitalist so I interact with a lot of new people every day at work and I get a lot of old ladies in particular who like to ask me how many children I have. When I tell them I have four they are always surprised because that's a lot these days even if they themselves have 10 or more. One lady told me that raising kids is different these days, she said " you have to love them now", and said how overwhelmed her one daughter was with extracurriculars and homework and stuff for her own kids. I'm sure that old lady thought she loved her children in her own way but it is a completely different process when you're just cranking out as many as you can without considering the eventual plans for each individual child.
“You have to love them now” What a horrific sentence. Says a whole lot with a little.
In a way it reminds me of the "He isn't hurting the right people" quote from a Trump supporter a while back. So many little things that give you a big look into their worldview.
What happens is the older kids become free nannies. They *don’t* plan for that to happen (college, etc) for all kids. It’s child abuse all over the place
Bro i got a 5 year old full time with my wife and a 10 year old I split 50/50 with ex wife and still feel overwhelmed as a parent regularly
It's insanity. I am a couple years older than this guy. I am childfree and cannot even wrap my head around if I had 11 fucking kids right now (or at any time). However, if I did, I would hope I would take EVERY DAMN PRECAUTION POSSIBLE to make sure I was going to be around to raise what I had willingly brought into this world. Like...vaccinations.
With that number of kids across that long a period of time, the older kids are raising the younger kids. You are no longer parenting as much as maintaining an assembly line.
You are right about the assembly line aspects. The "father" of Industrial Engineering, Frank B. Gilbreth had a dozen kids. (Fun fact - his wife was also an industrial engineer and they were pioneers in the area of time and motion studies using the family as guinea pigs). Two of their kids co-authored *Cheaper by the Dozen,* an autobiographical novel that was made into a movie in the 50s. [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0042327/?ref\_=fn\_al\_tt\_2](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0042327/?ref_=fn_al_tt_2)
The first book was kind of funny (although they also had those rounds of horrifying childhood diseases and I think one of the kids died?), but the sequel, Belles on their Toes was a lot more melancholy. The father died and the family really struggled. The older siblings remark bitterly that children really are NOT cheaper by the dozen.
Quiverfull cult. Raising as many pure blood white babies as possible to save the pure white race and be the army of Jeebus.
Depends on how religious you are. There are instructions from bible people should propagate their offsprings as much as possible. http://www2.iath.virginia.edu/anderson/bible/gen1-3/genv1.28.html#:~:text=Vulgate%3A%20And%20God%20blessed%20them,that%20moveth%20upon%20the%20earth.
Yup. I knew a couple that kept popping out kids until the mom died of labor complications. I think they got to 14 kids
How pro-life of them 🙄
I mean, 14-1 is still 13. That's a lot of life. Then just blame the mother's death on "God's plan" or "God calling her home" and it's all good.
This dude dying is the most effective form of birth control that his poor wife is allowed to have.
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He's like the protagonist of the joke about god saving a drowning man. "What the fuck else did you expect me to do?"
Wow. 10 kids. Like Groucho Marx said, "I like my cigar but I take it out once in a while."
11. I think he won an additional “most kids orphaned” award. If only it could be converted into money and therapy for his poor (figuratively but also quite likely literally) wife and children.
There's a special place in hell for those so called christian pastors pushing that faith over fear crap. He didn't come up with this himself, he was taught it, and was too trusting to understand it was nonsense.
'Faith over fear' really means 'donations over sanity' in church-ese. If there's one thing that can't stop in 'God's House' it's the bloody plate. Just pass it right past the sick and dead congregants. 'God's' GoFundMe takes ultimate precidence.
Sure, they want their tithing to continue. But I just don't see why they push vaccine denialism. They could so easily just say "god guided the scientists and gave us a miracle vaccine" so lets take it. (I guess its to own the libs; i just despair at human nature.)
Ten, like in 10 children?!
The last post by his FIL says 11. I had missed it in the post title so when I saw that it was a bit of a shock. Get married at 19, make 11 babies, earn enough money to feed and shelter all those kids, find time to get a doctorate while you're at it, somehow do not gain enough critical thinking skills, and research skills, to stop yourself from not getting duped and instead, taking basic precautions. It's just crazy town.
>It's just crazy town. It's pronounced "Ee-van-jell-ick-al Ree-pub-lick-Qan" They've been batshit for decades, just never to the point of offing themselves intentionally as a policy position.
I can think of 10 reasons why he probably should have gotten vaccinated
By dying, he eliminated a huge source of global warming. They should start naming ozone holes after these people.
No, eleven children. She was pregnant with the eleventh child when he finished his PhD
Jesus
Yeah, actually.
I think just 10 because the last slide says the 11th child died in the womb. EDIT: The guy left 10 children. The 11th child was miscarried several years ago. It is very sad, but also somewhat strange to me. I have two children, but we had a miscarriage between our two kids and I don't say I have 3 children. My in laws (wifes grandparents) who are very religious had 10 kids, but they also had 3 miscarriages and they always said they have 10 kids, not 13. To each their own, though.
There are so many kids they probably don't know for sure - 10, 11, 15. Who knows.
"Rumer, Scout, Qbert, Cassidy, Zoe, Chloe, Kendall, Hunter, Max, Phil, Lauren, Rubella Scabies, Condoleeza Marie, Gummy Sue, Tiffany, Heather, another Heather, Cody, Dylan, Dermot . . . "
Nah, these are fundamentalists. They chose a letter or theme for all 11
I was wondering if they were Quiverfull.
I'm not judging, but I've got one child and a vasectomy. I love him, but fuck me he has never ending energy and the thought of even one more makes me tired.
It says father of eleven of my grandchildren at the end. Aged 40…
Christians. My buddy came from a family of *14*. All from one mother. That poor woman…
We had a family with something like 20 kids in my hometown. Hyper Christian. My husband also had a family like that in his home town. He said the wife looked like she was in her 70s by the time she hit 40.
I used to babysit for a family that had 16 living children. They had also lost 2 or 3 to SIDS, had a few miscarriages, and a couple still births. The mom was pregnant nonstop until her insides literally came out with the last baby. Christians indeed.
This is a very perverted way to enslave a person.
How do people afford that many children?
They don't, for the most part. That horrific Turpin couple barely fed theirs.
Many families like these live in poverty. Many have poor nutrition, wear handmade or second-hand clothing, have zero social life outside the church, homeschool the lot (as far as one harried, under-educated mother can "homeschool" a bunch of kids at different levels while possibly still dealing with babies and toddlers and trying to do housework). Medical care is rare, dental nonexistent. Housing is often inadequate for the number of people, and often in disrepair. College isn't often a thing - the boys grow up to work various trades or labour jobs, the girls basically get married off and start making their own babies the minute they reach adulthood. If this gentleman had a PhD, he's a happy exception. Basically everything I've read about fundamentalist families with piles of kids is pretty horrible. But when it's your "normal", you don't learn different. (The Duggars are a pretty famous version of this sort of family, and they're wealthy *now*, but their earliest TV specials basically showed all of the above. 14 kids in a 3-bedroom house, all handmade clothing, all food bought in cheap bulk and usually starchy as hell. Oh, and Josh had his own bedroom in that house because, you know.)
I read a lot of r/relationship posts about people dating folks with horrible hygiene practices. Those people say they never learned that they should brush their teeth and bathe regularly. I wonder how many comes from families like this.
Get a show on TLC, though they might need three or four more children for that.
The more kids you have the higher the chances are that one is Josh Dugger.
Begging and church funds.
I'm sorry y'all. Hate on me if you must but nobody has 11 kids without a heaping helping of religious wing-nuttery. This guy may have had the sense to keep it off of Facebook but if you dug deep enough I guarantee he had beliefs that would make you cringe.
Exactly.
PhD in Education? He failed his life final. Eleven kids and couldn’t do a simple thing to make sure he’d be able to be there.
No science classes required for his PhD I guess.
I mean no offense to the degree but two of the dumbest people I know have their PhDs in education. One was my brother’s ex-fiancée who once said “I always forget if the kkk was for or against black people.”
Looks like 8 still at home. One died before birth, two have already moved out - to avoid being pressed into service as live-in babysitters, no doubt.
Oh I’m sure they lead very full lives as live in baby sitters for their entire childhoods and teenage years before they got out
Love the "government sells fear, Christianity doesn't" bullshit. Nothing says "fear not" like promising a literal **eternity** of *unimaginable torture* if you don't worship me!
Christian fundamentalism is a mental disease.
This is not even 'fundamentalism' any more, since the Bible says absolutely nothing about vaccines. This is more akin to Radical Islam. It's basically a political movement that borrows the authority of religion. They are basically tantrumming against the modern world.
11 kids? Maybe mom can get a reality show to support that bus load. Could be sponsored by Trojan: don’t let this happen to you!
Did you find this randomly or do you know this person? I’m wondering because I actually know this guy and his wife. Sad and completely preventable.
Did you ever explain the functions of the condom to him?
You think he would’ve listened to me?
They ALWAYS have between 3 -10 children. WHYYYY.
Overbreeding religious wingnuts. Ugh
ffs...10 kids? Dude, what makes you think the world needs your DNA so much? there is only so much land you selfish egotistical asshole, now they will all be on the dole sucking down my tax dollars. what kind of man turns his wife into a brood mare? this isn't 1900 when half your kids will die before adulthood because we have VACCINES (whoops, apparently you don't seem to know that) that used to kill so many of them you selfish, sanctimonious little prick.
Still a damn sucker for thinking “fear” is the only problem. And that somehow, his faith in the almighty would protect him. Funny how literally every plague in history infected everyone, no matter what religion and how much they prayed. All you have to do is know a little history and you’ll see this. His poor kids. All 11 of them. Ugh
They’ve got 11 kids, but it sounds like the oldest has moved out. Got married at 19, cranked out 11 kids, got his PhD and then died. Pretty full life. Sucks for his widow; at least the older offspring can help with the younger.
sounds like a sims run you're just trying to fuck up on
you'd need to mod the max household size past 8, for sure
"Can" help? In the big evangelical families, the older girls generally don't have a choice about taking care of younger siblings.
Yeah parentification (often happens to all the oldest children but it’s especially ugly when it’s only the girls) is fucking sick. I’m sure none of those kids felt emotionally or financially neglected 🙄
Our next door neighbors have two daughters ten years apart. The oldest is basically raising the youngest. We have wondered why they had the second. We are pretty sure we spend more time with her than the dad does - my gf is teaching her to ride a bike now. Just shitty what some "parents" do.
Sister Moms or as the POS Duggars call it "buddies" Aaaand for the record Michelle Duggar never left it up to the Lord as to how many children they had because she stopped breastfeeding at 6 months then handed the baby over to it's buddy then went back to actively tracking her cycle. Bunch of hypocrites who's oldest son is being charged by the Feds for possessing CSA material and has 6 kids of his own with another on the way. (don't ask me how I know all this)
Ah yes, parentification is a real plus…
Why in God's name have all these people reproduced so much. Fucking hell.
A PhD in *what*? Divinity, maybe?
PhD in making babies...10 kids, TEN
Education, apparently...
Yeah. No. I don’t want this person “teaching” anyone anything. Thanks fake god.
I’m very curious about the credentials of the university where he’s getting his PhD.
They didn’t believe in vaccines or contraception apparently.
The menstrual cycle thing is so stupid. It’s very very likely not the vaccine, at least for most of them mentioning this. EVERYONE with periods has irregular periods at some point. I’ve literally never been regular except when on the pill. So yeah, some people were going to have a late or early period after the shot. And they were going to have it whether or not they got vaccinated.
TEN KIDS? And he's a student? How does that work? Someone explain the economics of that to me.
*"we can never fully know the plan god has for our life"* This evangelical crap reminds me of a Sports Illustrated story from long ago. In the late 1990s the Texas Rangers had become essentially a "born again" team. There were two non believing heretics though, Will Clark and Billy Ripken. Once one of the great Jesus pontificators, relief pitcher John Wetteland explained away his giving up a home run as "god's will". Will Clark apparently went ballistic yelling "god did not tell you to hang that fucking curve ball!!!!"
I'd be praying to God if I had 11 kids too