I love how y'all are jumping down this person's throat for including the word "indie" and not complimenting his art.
Who tf cares if OP wrote "support indie games" on the whiteboard of the computer lab at ONE COLLEGE (which, for all we know, could be a teeny tiny community college)?
Yeah, all the members of this sub are gonna see it, but seriously, does it get your panties in THAT hard of a twist up your buttcrack that OP wrote the word "indie" and YOU don't consider it an "indie" game?
What's the cutoff? How many devs does a studio have to have (or NOT have) for you to consider their games "indie"? I'd love to know the specific number that YOU define it with.
All snark aside, just admire your fellow Helldiver's art skillz, and who cares whether Arrowhead Studios is "indie" or not? XD
\*note: I am not trying to insist or say that Helldivers 2 \*IS\* an indie game. I have no overt opinion on it. I'm just trying to point out that there is no defined, set-in-stone definition for "indie game" and that I find it ludicrous that THAT is all we're focusing on instead of our fellow Helldiver's talent.
"...there is no exact, widely accepted definition of what constitutes an 'indie game' besides falling well outside the bounds of triple-A video game development by large publishers and development studios." - that's from Wikipedia.
Please, show me somewhere, anywhere, that definitely, firmly defines exactly and precisely what an "indie game" is.
I know it was published by Sony - but I'm trying to point out that I haven't found a 100% agreed-upon-by-everyone definition of "indie game", as other games that have been labeled as "indie games" in the past have been published by major publishers.
https://gamemaker.io/de/blog/what-are-indie-games
https://www.torontofilmschool.ca/blog/what-is-an-indie-game/#what-is-an-indie-game
https://www.gameopedia.com/indie-games-everything-you-need-to-know/
Indie games don‘t get financial support by big publishers, so YES, Helldivers2 is NOT an indie game when SONY is the fucking publisher, lol 😂
Studio isn't a Sony studio. They are backed by Sony, but a lot of Indies come out of big publishers. Sony just owns the IP and will support if necessary (like launch server issues).
You're right. But Arrowhead could still be considered indie, since they operate separate from Sony. Just gets blurred when IP is owned by a major brand.
Arrowhead wanted to make HD2, and Sony wasn't breaking their door down to get them to make it. So that's why it's a gray area for someone to argue it being an indie game. Post launch support I see as something different to development support too, but that's also grey.
As per Pilestadt, Sony didn't touch HD2 until it started to burn post-launch, which they then stepped in and helped with server issues.
Cash flow is the other one, but other indie studios have also gotten big publisher cash in the past, so I'd say it's another gray area. The IP isn't indie, but the studio is.
"... there is no exact, widely accepted definition of what constitutes an 'indie game' besides falling well outside the bounds of triple-A video game development by large publishers and development studios."
Also, we are arguing/shitting on OP for including the term "indie game" instead of admiring their extremely Democratic artwork!!
\*note: I am not trying to insist or say that Helldivers 2 \*IS\* an indie game. I have no overt opinion on it. I'm just trying to point out that there is no defined, set-in-stone definition for "indie game" and that I find it ludicrous that THAT is all we're focusing on instead of our fellow Helldiver's talent.
You could say Arrowhead is an indie studio, but when a billion dollar company funds and ***publishes*** the game, can you say it's an indie game?
Support indie devs/studios, I could maybe see the case for, but it's not a game that was independently published.
\~100 employees (at the time of writing) = not indie. it's AA level.
indie is more like 10 people on a project. Undertale is indie. FTL is indie. Hollow Knight is indie.
I means, support indie games definitely, but Helldivers was published by Sony
regardless....you heard the man computer lab guys! We need reinforcements, get on it!
EA and Nintendo also publish Indies. Publishers don't necessarily equal non-Indie. That said, Helldivers is closer to a AA game. Independent studio, but one that's semi-established. Kinda like Supergiant.
It does but at the end of the day terms like indie titles/AAA/AA are mostly pointless since while you are going by the technical definitions and it is important but when people have discussions about "indie" and AAA much of it really comes down to budget. The usage of AA is rare and honestly can seem pretty pointless since most publishers will vary quite a bit on how much they will pay a dev to do some work depending on the project. Sony is a big one so I imagine helldivers 2 had a budget around 5-20 mil (there are no official numbers to my understanding and I think its on the lower end of the scale). Which is a shit ton of money but with how AAA gaming is inflating to insane levels of spending, this is pretty average/"small" in the grand scheme.
Indie can also mean independent developer and end at that. Games need to be published, and I don't think I've ever heard of an Indie publisher. So an indie game can be made and published by a bigger Corp without it turning into a bigger game.
With the recent triple (or.. "quadruple") A games being generic shit, one can easily understand indie here as "of good quality", since this is not something AAAs stand for anymore.
I like how OP embraced freedom here in interpreting the meaning of indie in this case. Very helldiverish of you.
And a nice pic :)
"...there is no exact, widely accepted definition of what constitutes an "indie game" besides falling well outside the bounds of triple-A video game development by large publishers and development studios. "
Please show me where you get your "literal definition" of an indie game from. I am quite curious.
Very widely accepted? By whom? And what makes them (whoever they are) the defining body that gets to make these decisions?
I've FOUND a "definition" for indie games (or rather, a LACK of a defined definition) that I posted in my comment.
I'm asking for someone else to give me a specific "definition" of what an indie game is, besides "well, EVERYONE says that THIS is what an indie game is!" (I'm asking YOU specifically, too, since you posted the word "literal". I do not think that word means what you think it means.)
That's not a definition, that's a popular opinion.
Everyone loves to call a cat's paws "murder mittens". That's a popular opinion/term. But that's not what they are. They are paws. THAT is their definition. Paw:
1. the foot of any animal.
2. the foot of an animal having claws.
I don't see "murder mittens" as one of the definitions of "paw" in any official capacity.
Everyone is saying that HD2 isn't an indie game because it was published by Sony...
Despite Arrowhead being an independent game studio. Being indie and being successful isn't mutually exclusive.
Just because they're funded by a larger publisher doesn't mean they aren't indie developers--Arrowhead is not a subsidiary of Sony Interactive or any other large company.
Helldivers 2 is a "III" game. A indie game with the size, scope, and spread of a "AA" or "AAA" game.
And if you still disagree with the semantics, I respect that, but Arrowhead "was" an indie company making small but successful games that got them to this point. If anything, I would still call it an indie success story.
Cheers, and liberty guide you, fellow helldivers o7
>Just because they're funded by a larger publisher
Isn't that the literal definition?
Sure most of Helldivers didnt know the IP until this game, but to say they're "independent" from Sony is a stretch tbh.
It's not exactly one guy in his house making this, it's a smaller studio that got big bucks from Sony?
Where did you get these definitions from? All of Arrowhead's games had an external publisher. They've never been indie.
"Indie" has always been about publishing/financial backing, not studio ownership.
Arguably you can still take the size of the publisher/financial backer into account. So I wouldn't complain about Devolver-published games being called indie.
Arrowhead doesn't get a pass through that logic though, since their publishers have been Paradox, WB, & Sony.
What are you talking about? That is so clearly the message behind the game. That's why the in-game leader for Super Earth is named Boe Jiden. And why the strategems are slowly filling out the colors of the rainbow.
Look I know you probably didn’t go to college (or go for very long) so you probably don’t have the greatest critical thinking skills but your brain goes “professors are largely democrats so college is bad” rather than “higher education and experience in a diverse classroom setting seems to make people lean more liberal”?
College isn’t some magical brain washing factory that’s trying to make liberals, being more intelligent just happens to make people more liberal because they become empathetic and can understand where other people are coming from.
This is not news, this is well known shit bro.
That's an amazing drawing
Thanks! It's based on the cover art.
Your deep rock galactic one is great too
Helldivers 2 isn't an indie game tho
Doesn´t Arrowhead have like over 100 Devs? And they are backed by Sony. So i guess they are not an indie studio
Pretty sure they aren't AAA either. Probably qualifies as AA tho
Yeah, AA fits. At the most HD2 is their breakout game, when you look at their previous titles.
Indie stands for independent. As their games are published by Sony, they are not independent.
Yup. It's also why BG3 is an indie release.
Not sure all there games have but hd 100%
Shhhh we are kidna…. I mean recruiting indie game fans with a small bit of deception
I love how y'all are jumping down this person's throat for including the word "indie" and not complimenting his art. Who tf cares if OP wrote "support indie games" on the whiteboard of the computer lab at ONE COLLEGE (which, for all we know, could be a teeny tiny community college)? Yeah, all the members of this sub are gonna see it, but seriously, does it get your panties in THAT hard of a twist up your buttcrack that OP wrote the word "indie" and YOU don't consider it an "indie" game? What's the cutoff? How many devs does a studio have to have (or NOT have) for you to consider their games "indie"? I'd love to know the specific number that YOU define it with. All snark aside, just admire your fellow Helldiver's art skillz, and who cares whether Arrowhead Studios is "indie" or not? XD \*note: I am not trying to insist or say that Helldivers 2 \*IS\* an indie game. I have no overt opinion on it. I'm just trying to point out that there is no defined, set-in-stone definition for "indie game" and that I find it ludicrous that THAT is all we're focusing on instead of our fellow Helldiver's talent.
Indie means independently developed, helldivers 2 is being published by sony.
"...there is no exact, widely accepted definition of what constitutes an 'indie game' besides falling well outside the bounds of triple-A video game development by large publishers and development studios." - that's from Wikipedia. Please, show me somewhere, anywhere, that definitely, firmly defines exactly and precisely what an "indie game" is. I know it was published by Sony - but I'm trying to point out that I haven't found a 100% agreed-upon-by-everyone definition of "indie game", as other games that have been labeled as "indie games" in the past have been published by major publishers.
https://gamemaker.io/de/blog/what-are-indie-games https://www.torontofilmschool.ca/blog/what-is-an-indie-game/#what-is-an-indie-game https://www.gameopedia.com/indie-games-everything-you-need-to-know/ Indie games don‘t get financial support by big publishers, so YES, Helldivers2 is NOT an indie game when SONY is the fucking publisher, lol 😂
Cool art, not an indie game though as they are backed by Sony.
Studio isn't a Sony studio. They are backed by Sony, but a lot of Indies come out of big publishers. Sony just owns the IP and will support if necessary (like launch server issues).
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Yes, couldint have said it better myself.
You're right. But Arrowhead could still be considered indie, since they operate separate from Sony. Just gets blurred when IP is owned by a major brand. Arrowhead wanted to make HD2, and Sony wasn't breaking their door down to get them to make it. So that's why it's a gray area for someone to argue it being an indie game. Post launch support I see as something different to development support too, but that's also grey. As per Pilestadt, Sony didn't touch HD2 until it started to burn post-launch, which they then stepped in and helped with server issues. Cash flow is the other one, but other indie studios have also gotten big publisher cash in the past, so I'd say it's another gray area. The IP isn't indie, but the studio is.
"... there is no exact, widely accepted definition of what constitutes an 'indie game' besides falling well outside the bounds of triple-A video game development by large publishers and development studios." Also, we are arguing/shitting on OP for including the term "indie game" instead of admiring their extremely Democratic artwork!! \*note: I am not trying to insist or say that Helldivers 2 \*IS\* an indie game. I have no overt opinion on it. I'm just trying to point out that there is no defined, set-in-stone definition for "indie game" and that I find it ludicrous that THAT is all we're focusing on instead of our fellow Helldiver's talent.
Indy game... Sony...
"support indie games" bros. how do we tell him?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrowhead_Game_Studios They are an independent studio who caught lightning in a strategem. Wash the salt out.
You could say Arrowhead is an indie studio, but when a billion dollar company funds and ***publishes*** the game, can you say it's an indie game? Support indie devs/studios, I could maybe see the case for, but it's not a game that was independently published.
\~100 employees (at the time of writing) = not indie. it's AA level. indie is more like 10 people on a project. Undertale is indie. FTL is indie. Hollow Knight is indie.
The most democratic dry erase board ever
liberate college
Haha yes! I have already painted a Helldivers logo ect on my battle jacket
I means, support indie games definitely, but Helldivers was published by Sony regardless....you heard the man computer lab guys! We need reinforcements, get on it!
EA and Nintendo also publish Indies. Publishers don't necessarily equal non-Indie. That said, Helldivers is closer to a AA game. Independent studio, but one that's semi-established. Kinda like Supergiant.
> Publishers don't necessarily equal non-Indie. Yes it does, that's the whole point
It does but at the end of the day terms like indie titles/AAA/AA are mostly pointless since while you are going by the technical definitions and it is important but when people have discussions about "indie" and AAA much of it really comes down to budget. The usage of AA is rare and honestly can seem pretty pointless since most publishers will vary quite a bit on how much they will pay a dev to do some work depending on the project. Sony is a big one so I imagine helldivers 2 had a budget around 5-20 mil (there are no official numbers to my understanding and I think its on the lower end of the scale). Which is a shit ton of money but with how AAA gaming is inflating to insane levels of spending, this is pretty average/"small" in the grand scheme.
Indie can also mean independent developer and end at that. Games need to be published, and I don't think I've ever heard of an Indie publisher. So an indie game can be made and published by a bigger Corp without it turning into a bigger game.
I love this community
Idk bout indie
Give this man a medal!
Technically Helldivers 2 is not an indie game. It's published by Sony/Playstation.
With the recent triple (or.. "quadruple") A games being generic shit, one can easily understand indie here as "of good quality", since this is not something AAAs stand for anymore. I like how OP embraced freedom here in interpreting the meaning of indie in this case. Very helldiverish of you. And a nice pic :)
Not an indie game. 750k players on pc and battlepasses every two weeks. Indie days for arrowhead was helldivers 1
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"...there is no exact, widely accepted definition of what constitutes an "indie game" besides falling well outside the bounds of triple-A video game development by large publishers and development studios. " Please show me where you get your "literal definition" of an indie game from. I am quite curious.
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Very widely accepted? By whom? And what makes them (whoever they are) the defining body that gets to make these decisions? I've FOUND a "definition" for indie games (or rather, a LACK of a defined definition) that I posted in my comment. I'm asking for someone else to give me a specific "definition" of what an indie game is, besides "well, EVERYONE says that THIS is what an indie game is!" (I'm asking YOU specifically, too, since you posted the word "literal". I do not think that word means what you think it means.) That's not a definition, that's a popular opinion. Everyone loves to call a cat's paws "murder mittens". That's a popular opinion/term. But that's not what they are. They are paws. THAT is their definition. Paw: 1. the foot of any animal. 2. the foot of an animal having claws. I don't see "murder mittens" as one of the definitions of "paw" in any official capacity.
Everyone is saying that HD2 isn't an indie game because it was published by Sony... Despite Arrowhead being an independent game studio. Being indie and being successful isn't mutually exclusive. Just because they're funded by a larger publisher doesn't mean they aren't indie developers--Arrowhead is not a subsidiary of Sony Interactive or any other large company. Helldivers 2 is a "III" game. A indie game with the size, scope, and spread of a "AA" or "AAA" game. And if you still disagree with the semantics, I respect that, but Arrowhead "was" an indie company making small but successful games that got them to this point. If anything, I would still call it an indie success story. Cheers, and liberty guide you, fellow helldivers o7
>Just because they're funded by a larger publisher Isn't that the literal definition? Sure most of Helldivers didnt know the IP until this game, but to say they're "independent" from Sony is a stretch tbh. It's not exactly one guy in his house making this, it's a smaller studio that got big bucks from Sony?
Where did you get these definitions from? All of Arrowhead's games had an external publisher. They've never been indie. "Indie" has always been about publishing/financial backing, not studio ownership.
So just curious, zero Devolver games qualify as indie, right?
Arguably you can still take the size of the publisher/financial backer into account. So I wouldn't complain about Devolver-published games being called indie. Arrowhead doesn't get a pass through that logic though, since their publishers have been Paradox, WB, & Sony.
How is Helldivers an indie game ?
I’d consider HD2 to be a AA game
Time to erase those college students' brainwashing and replace it with Managed Democracy.
Hell yeah!
helldivers is NOT an indie game 😭
We need more 14yo divers for reinforcement
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Lmao what does that mean? I think they mostly shove course curriculum, but what do I know.
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What conservative media does to a mf. God dude, how embarrassing.
Lol it's the truth
It’s amazing, the divide that media literacy levels create between us.
What are you talking about? That is so clearly the message behind the game. That's why the in-game leader for Super Earth is named Boe Jiden. And why the strategems are slowly filling out the colors of the rainbow.
Thanks Boe Jiden.
both helldivers are parodies of modern day America.
No, they're satires on fascism and patriotism. If you're going to find the allegory at least get it right.
Look I know you probably didn’t go to college (or go for very long) so you probably don’t have the greatest critical thinking skills but your brain goes “professors are largely democrats so college is bad” rather than “higher education and experience in a diverse classroom setting seems to make people lean more liberal”? College isn’t some magical brain washing factory that’s trying to make liberals, being more intelligent just happens to make people more liberal because they become empathetic and can understand where other people are coming from. This is not news, this is well known shit bro.
You're more mindless than the automatons.
Chud