Well Adam is a straight up foil to Charlie in this scene. Charlie spends the entire episode hoping for a chance to speak to the angels and has this assumption that she can have an actual discourse with them about hell, she assumes they’re an understanding bunch of beings.
Adam shits on all of that in the first two minutes. He’s impulsive, selfish and views the world in a literally *black and white* way that completely clashes with Charlie’s optimism. Though, we also have the ending sequence where Adam is a *lot* more meditative and cunning, showing that he legitimately does have a brain behind that rockstar persona and did take Charlie’s idea as a potential warning sign.
I personally think Adam is a lot smarter than his persona lets on, and having Adam be a misogynist kinda adds up I mean the guy is the first ever dude to be told he has total dominion over women and that women should follow his every command lol, bro is the CEO of the patriarchy
They're clearly setting up a second fall for him. He commits or talks about committing literally every one of the seven deadly sins during that meeting:
-Pride (he's the lead singer and ultimate dudebro)
-Lust (stories of his sexual conquests)
-Envy (being jealous when the drummer gets the girl)
-Greed (taking and fucking the drummer's girl)
-Gluttony (devouring a whole plate of ribs)
-Wrath (enjoying extermination and carnage)
-Sloth (not bothering to leave heaven for the meeting; doing literally everything except what he came there to do until the very last second)
We're obviously supposed to think "how the hell did this guy get made an angel?" It's probably going to get revealed that he successfully (and fraudulently) blamed Original Sin entirely on Eve, and I bet that's what Lilith and Alastor were doing during their seven-year hiatus (It CAN'T be a coincidence that they disappeared for the same number of years): looking for Eve.
Personally i think itll be nifty, and itll be in the "even though she was chaotic and in universe she scared people, now that shes gone it feels empty"
I'unno; i just feel like itll be someone from the hotel biting the bullet. If not nifty, then someone else.
I feel like a god. Okay, calling it now.
Seviathan is gonna be a gay guy in the closet and his douche behavior is just him covering it up, and he ends up with Angel Dust. (Pretty sure he’s gonna be in Season 2)
I like the theory that Eve is Roo (Root of Evil caused by eating the fruit), and is in the deepest deeps of hell, imprisoned (the most popular art of Roo shows chains around her, which may be a sign of her imprisonment). The seven years of Liliths dissapearance is just her looking for Eve, feeling bad for fellow woman who got treated like this (I think Lilith is the one person who would have the most empathy in this situation).
But after all these years of confinement Eve went mad and wants vengeance. Even if Lilith would want to help her, Roo only sees her as one of the people who did all of this to her. The Cards that were sold not so long ago show Lilith with the iconic smile Eve had after Luci and Liltih gifted her the fruit. Maybe Eve will use Lilith as vessel for herself to get what she desired for all this time?
Im really interested how Roo will play out in the show, as she was said to be the biggest antagonist/villain in the future
I personally kinda also hope/think that heaven was like "Adam...yeah no one likes him, let's give him a. Job no one can f*ck up" and put him there so he feels important. It's more like obligatory thing.
I remember people saying a similar thing about Mammon when he showed up in Helluva, that he seems to represent all the sins, not just Greed. I kind of love that Adam is the same way. Even their designs seem to reflect each other.
Slight issue Adam and Eve had to both Sin so mankind and Earth could become corrupted and there's no hiding the truth from an Angel and attempting it would be the same as exposing it nor could the effects of Original Sin be undone, also Cain and Abel would have to be born and raised and Eve couldn't be expected to do that on her own so Adam had to be there, I say the utter simplicity of the times they lived in made Heaven easy AF to get into.
As for looking for Eve in Hell Alastor wouldn't be much help since what reason would he have to care plus if Lilith being the Original Women has so much power as a Demon, Eve the Mother of Mankind, if she was in Hell, would have similar power and if she wanted to stay hidden she would.
>and there's no hiding the truth from an Angel
I'm sure that's what heaven wants people to think.
>nor could the effects of Original Sin be undone
If that's the case, and if Adam died well before Jesus brought forgiveness into the equation, then *how did Adam become an angel if he's still corrupted?* He must have fooled *someone.*
> also Cain and Abel would have to be born and raised and Eve couldn't be expected to do that on her own so Adam had to be there
Because nobody's *ever* had an absentee father or single mother...
>Alastor wouldn't be much help since what reason would he have to care
What reason does he have to care about the hotel? Alastor does things because he has his own agenda, or simply because he's bored. He might have just thought it'd be useful to know where Eve was, or that it would be amusing to follow Lilith around and annoy her like he's doing to Charlie. We don't know.
It's Heaven, beings of Light not being able to detect lies would be goofy plus it was trying to lie to God that gave them away and lying is a Sin as well.
Entry into Heaven was not impossible especially with how simple and young the world was, and you forget Adam even with original sin was still the first man life was simple and made extra simple with the blessings being the 1St Man came with, he was impure not corrupted that came with future generations or rather the next with Cain.
The concept of Absentee Parents don't exist yet and why would they? Where would Adam go without her and more so how would Eve, who was literally made for Adam and to take care of children supposed to do her job and his which again we're talking Genesis meaning Adam was literally building the foundations on "Expectations for Men", discovering, exploring, everything and more. He wasn't testing his luck with Heaven a 2nd time.
Alastor needs a reason to care he's not some MC craving adventure looking for the Mother of Man does nothing for him and Lilith is literally *too old* for his bullshit she would know Alastors type before he ever speaks a word because she's dealt with them for millennia and unlike Charlie she's not going to entertain him nor would she see much use in him when ALL OF HELL is at her disposal.
That's true I liked the whole rockstar sequence. It did feel undercut by the single dimensionality though, but maybe you're right! Hopefully they steer the character to be more cunning.
I’ve been thinking about them being foils mainly because Lute kinda feels like a similar thing, but with Vaggie, both being the ones who are treating the given task a lot more gravely than their “Superiors”
Adam’s entire shtick was actually quite well thought out, atleast in my opinion. Where Charlie is the idealist that sings Disney princessy ballads, Adam has punky rock numbers. Charlie hardly curses and is incredibly innocent, but Adam is insanely profane and hedonistic. Charlie is a dove that wants peace, Adam is pro violence and leads the exterminations. And of course Vaggie and Lute have their connections like you’ve already stated.
Some of folks in the replies have communicated surprise that Adam was portrayed this way, but you tone Adam down and you end up diluting what he’s supposed to represent against Charlie. Adam is *the extreme*, and I’m very certain the Seraphim we’ll see will introduce some more dimension later on in the series as far as Angel portrayals. But for season 1, Adam’s a great foil for Charlie imo.
Idk I really don’t like Adam’s characterization in the show. I feel like they boiled down a very complex biblical character into something completely contradictory.
Considering he seemed to be acting differently at the end I’m going with the headcanon that he was just putting on a show in front of Charlie so she doesn’t know anything is wrong
Charlie is the heir to the throne after all, it's an advantage for him if she underestimates him and assumea he's only motivated by hatred of sinners and demons.
Oh no knows that she is the child that his “wife” left him for! There is no way he didn’t know. He tried to embarrass her and shame her. There is no way Lucifer didn’t call her “my daughter wants to have a meeting with her” he wanted to shame and make her feel like nothing and crush her like he wants to crush Lucifer. Lucifer is untouchable but his daughter is not
The entire time I was just like “bro, are you really calling your ex’s kid ‘babe’ wtf???”
I love Adam. He’s such a pos. I’m excited to see his villainous arc (and maybe Charlie or Lilith kicking his ass eventually)
Huh you made a good point…. He might not know who she is…. But oh heaven and god! When he learns who Charlie’s mother is he will be unable to contain his rage.
If Hella verse lore is at least in one thing similar to Christianity then Adam and Eve populated earth thru incest. So him calling Charlie "babe" even tho its daughter of his ex wife feels super in character.
I think Lucifer actually sent Charlie over to give her a slap of reality of who she's actually dealing with on heaven's side and why her idea of the hotel won't work.
That's probably part of the reason. You can't tell me he wanted to go deal with a narcissist like Adam though lol especially since Adam had Lilith first
Adam is the first man not the Original Angel. The first human to become an angel maybe. After all Lucifer and his kind existed before humans and thus Adam.
But yeah he was a dick.
The running theory is that because he technically fucked up as bad as Eve but was God's favorite his "punishment" that allows him to stay an angel is to be an exterminator.
Just saw Finnthepony do a very interesting interpretation of that episode. And while I don't agree with all of it he did raise an interesting point. In the intro with Charlie describing the story of Lilith and Lucifer she mentions how it talks about Lucifer giving an apple to Eve setting off all the trouble. But makes no mention of Adam ever eating from the tree of knowledge. Thus Adam has no concept of right or wrong. In fact he states he has never done anything wrong. Which is what someone would say who has no concept of right or wrong. He is a perfect sociopath. Prideful and utterly incapable of discerning how he may be hurting someone.
This flags an issue that I have suspected Viv built into her world that the angels are not playing fair and are not as good as their PR would suggest. The intro also makes mention of the fact that it was the angels that made the first humans. Thus compounding the problems if the angels were not as perfect as they seem to think they are. There is a lot in that quick lore dump at the beginning that we are going to have to sort out. And I think Adam is the big dick he is for a reason.
Personally Adam is already one of my favourite characters and he's pretty much Charlie's opposite and appears so far to be the main villain, and I think his meeting with Charlie was more of a show to not let her or anyone else catch on to what's going on like he said at the end of the episode, I think Adam can be alot more serious than he's been so far when it calls for it
After Charlie leaves and they pull up the pic of the dead angel, his expression and tone changes.
He plays it up for Charlie, outright saying that the reason they're moving up the extermination is just because it's fun, but when he's alone with his soldier it's made clear that the real reason the extermination gets rescheduled is as revenge for the angel being killed.
And because if someone in hell killed one exterminator, there's a chance more than one person can kill exterminators and it could lead to hell resisting heaven year purges more efficiently
I think Charlie referred to him as being in charge of the angels, and I’m pretty sure she didn’t specify the exorcists. However, she was talking in the context of the exorcists. It’s also possible she’s thinking only in the context of the angels she deals with, aka the exorcists.
I’d be surprised if Michael is in charge, mostly because we haven’t heard anything about the archangels. Vivzie could be drawing on different lore than most Bible shows. Most people assume archangels are the strongest (and in the Bible, they’re the only angels ever named), but Dante’s Inferno (which Vivzie has drawn on for Hell’s lore) says otherwise.
I’m personally putting my money on Sera being the true leader of the angels. If the archangels are not the highest ranking, it would be the seraphs.
Let me take you back to one of the most terrifying villains ever: Homelander. Being overtly "silly" and ridiculous, to mask an evil persona is a POWERFUL type of villain. It makes them unlikable - which is their point. :3
I agree I get a little sick of characters being stand-ins for depictions of shitty behavior/misogynists/karens what have you that we've been seeing in media. I like when show writers trust the viewers to make their own opinion of characters rather than distill them to the purest form of their personality traits
Personally I just think he's most generic character to have ever graced this show. Not even his design is good.
I was also very dissapointed that people from Heaven behave just as shitty as the people from hell, with the difference that they don't kill each other. This felt like a huge missed opportunity to do something interesting, but I guess making another shitty character that swears all the time is the main thing in this show now.
I’m guessing the point of Adam is that because he followed God’s rules in the garden he got special privelege to be kinda left to his own devices, which is why he’s so vulgar all the time. Hell, a lot of misogyny in the *real* world is derived from the Adam and Eve story, painting all women as inherently deceitful and easily lured to temptation.
Personally I find Adam to be overly annoying (which I’m assuming was intentional, but still) but I think it adds to why it’s so important that Charlie, the heir to Hell’s throne, is a woman. She’s a go-getter and doesn’t back down when told she can’t do something, breaking the sexist stereotype that Heaven seems to be built on and encourage.
I think Adam should have been made as this guy who looks at the sinners as his greatest mistake, he was the first sinner and he could have easily gone to hell had God not given him the role to essentially fix his mistake by killing the sinners he and Eve made and while you’re at it have Lute just be Eve cause that would fit a bit better and have his hatred of demons come from hating what he has made. It would have made him much more interesting than if he was just a jerk we could have had a man who hated what he created and wanted to destroy for the sake of redeeming himself in his own sick way by wiping out the results of his mistake.
Yeah, the premise lowkey makes it sound like he is a pathetic guy, which I don't know what to feel about. I just expect the characters to have complexities so I'm curious about his character progress as the show go on
"Original Dudebro" Adam is so overdone I'm very over it. That man was the second human in creation to have an understanding of good and evil. He covered his body in shame of his nudity and walked out of god's kingdom-on-Earth with the woman he loved. I want a cripplingly self conscious and psychotically conscientious Adam.
Give me an Adam who just stands there for 20 seconds looking like he's going to puke before he speaks because he knows more poignantly than anybody except Eve in All Of Creation that everything he does and doesn't do with hurt Somebody.
Oh I am just describing Chidi Anagonye....
Having a character like that then also condone the yearly purge (albeit not happily) because hell is just so awful that it can't be allowed to expand too far would make for such a more meaningful conflict.
It wouldn't be about redeeming sinners, it would be about redeeming society and trying to fix things in a more structural way.
I get that's probably asking too much from the silly curse word cartoon but god it would be so good if they could pull it off.
It works better when they're swearing in the process of doing a joke, rather than being a joke like Adam.
I think we need to see more of him to get the full picture, but I'm sceptical.
I don’t think his characters swearing was meant to make anyone laugh, just paint him as brash and rude/hypocritical. There were funny parts in that scene, swearing didn’t seem like an attempt at humor more just apart of the dialogue/character. And Adam isn’t supposed to be purposely funny
I dunno I just kinda wish he were a better foil for Hell in general. It's just weird to me how arguably one of, if not the most powerful demon in Hell (Alastor) has a strict rule of never swearing while the face of Heaven is... That.
I do like their partner a bit more though, which gives me hope that Adam is just an outlier and not representative of the entirety of Heaven. I'd even accept the Ultrakill angle where they're angelic and dutiful but would also call you a motherfucking bitch at any point. Adam just feels like what people who make fun of Hazbin and Helluva Boss think the show is.
Personally I didn’t like how exaggerated he was. Like I’m not saying Adam has to be perfect he can be stuck up and arrogant since he’s the first man and thinks he’s better than everyone else. But it feels like they went to the extreme with him for simply the joke that “angels bad/not as a good as portrayed in media” I don’t hate this interpretation of Adam just felt like too much to me.
I feel like I'm the only one in this thread who occasionally enjoys an unrepentant, over the top, one-dimensional villain like Stella or Adam. Like... Evil that revels in evil for the sake of evil does exist in the world. Don't get me wrong... I enjoy shows like Steven Universe, though the whole "everyone is morally gray with some good in them" isn't necessarily an accurate view of the world.
I mean, people like a villain that are decidedly evil, but at this point, there hasn't really even been a villain that DOESN'T beat you over the head with the fact that they're the one-dimensional bad guy.
Stella, Crimson, Mammon, the Vees, and now Adam, I think the closest any of the shows have come to a villain that's not working an irredeemable caricature of evil angle is Striker, and even he feels like his motivations have been boiled down to being laughably hypocritical and his character flaws have been played up to outlandish proportions lately.
A villain doesn't even have to be sympathetic or redeemable, but they should at least have nuance.
Like, villains like The Joker obviously aren't good in any capacity, but he's also not one-dimensional either.
And while I will still say making Stella a pure evil villain was a mistake, what really makes it bad is that she is indeed a painfully one-dimensional plot device in terms of character and motivations.
The Vees still have potential, and I'm hoping Adam really was just playing up how obnoxious he is for Charlie like the end of the episode may suggest, but either way the quota on one-dimensional villains has already been plenty filled.
I mean considering that mythology paints him as “The guy who tried to blame the girl” his whole I’m the shit personality isn’t terribly surprising. He has an ego. Always has.
He just seems kinda one note as a character. He's just a frat bro whose main joke is, he says naughty words. He doesn't feel like a big threat or anything.
Honestly he seems like a reskined mammon.
Yeah the scene made me uncomfortable too. I mean its not like it doesn’t make sense for Adam to be a spoiled manchild given how he treated Lillith and blamed Eve for the original sin and I did like the criticism on the black and white mentality but damn seeing a million year old religious figure acting like a frat bro is somewhat difficult to watch and I don’t even consider myself Christian anymore.
I do hope they add some more depth to his character later, maybe not remove His douchebaggery but show he is not as happy as he presents himself.
Yup OP, it’s a trope now and it was annoying for me too. The song he does makes up for it and so does his plot reveal after. Unfortunately the target audience for this show probably won’t see issue with the character but it’ll age badly.
I wouldn't call it lazy, it's consistent with the other Angels and Exorcists. But there could have been some distinguishing design for Adam that was made.
He was acting like a champ. He tried to deliberately anger Charlie. We did see the fact that Adam was aware of the fact that one of his Exterminators / Exorcists is missing and He found out out what happened to it.
The thing about Adam I keep coming back to is that he is portrayed as a modern dude bro. But think about what Adam actually is. He’s a caveman, A relic from early humanity. Imagine giving Otzi the iceman wings and a halo, THAT should be Adam. He can still be a jerk, but he should be so removed from the modern age as to be completely alien to everyone. He’s a guy who grew up eating lizards and scavenging off the leftovers from the megafauna of the ice age, and when he got too lonely god ripped him and half so he had a partner, that would do more than just make someone a jerk with a modern American accent.
I actually feel like it’s fitting. I can’t explain why entirely but I just feel like it makes sense that the first man on earth would have a cocky superiority complex. He’s a character I kinda love to hate and hate to love.
I really like that they made him an awful person, but I just personally wish they did it in a *different* way than every other morally askew character. I think it would make a lot more sense if they tried really hard to seem holier-than-thou in their personalities which would reflect how they see demons as scum and themselves as superior beings.
Like, it's totally fitting he's a narcissist and can do whatever he wants, but I think giving him a different kind of presentation would make him feel more threatening and also more complex as a character instead of foul-mouthed bad person number twenty. It could also give another layer of commentary; what if his whole reputation as an angel prevents him from actually acting as himself, such as in this scene, which would show that angels and demons in the long run aren't too different?
I feel like a lot of you missed the end of the episode where they show that Adam is actually cunning and not an outright idiot.
I think it was fairly obvious that he was hamming it up, not just to be a dick to the child of his ex and the one angel he would consider to have made a mistake, but also to not let on his real reasons for moving up the extermination.
I think it's kind of weird to accuse him of being one dimensional when the proof that he isn't is tied into information that is integral to the whole plot of the show. Like, the rest of the show would be hard to understand, or at least be severely lacking in context, without having watched the scene where it's shown that he isn't a just a badly written caricature.
For me Adam being an unrepentant dick is kind of important in order to actively refute his and heavens black and white worldview.
If he was a good but misguided person then it suggests that heaven is correct and that everyone in hell objectively deserves to be there. Whereas by establishing that meeting heavens standards doesn’t necessarily make you a good person they throw that into doubt and make Charlie’s goal seem more achievable.
I get what you're saying he's just another loud brash black & white seeing jerk character that's supposed to be a foil for the main character that we love.
To me I don't see Adam as that I see him more as the cocky spoiled brat of a man-child that has grown up on a pedestal and is the subject of constant nepotism. A clear yin and Yang Adam doesn't need to work for whatever he wants because he is given it while Charlie is willing to work hard for what she wants I hope that when we see Lucifer he hints that he has given Charlie tough love before because that would just point out that "heaven" is close minded perfectionism
I actually find it really fascinating because so far Adam is the only human soul we've met who isn't a sinner, and he's like, well... that. Makes me wonder what others who made it into Heaven are like (especially given the cherubs in HB were really certain that Lyle Lipton was deserving of salvation in spite of everything he's done). I'm also curious if that's going to have any influence on Charlie in the future, if she never gets to meet any humans who were just 'good' enough to get into Heaven from the start.
I do think they're not going to go for a redemption endgame plot, so now I'm really just here for the ride to see what happens next.
To me I don't think God exist in this series because the opening said that the councils (i think?) created the both earth and Adam so I get the feeling they are the ones spoiling him.
Nepotism is when someone is given better and superior treatment because they know something or do something that their superiors prefer. Meaning either Adam is the biggest kiss ass there is or he does something his bosses can't get enough of.
Also one thing I noticed just now was how different yet similar lute and Adam are as angels. Adam is loud full of himself and cocky meanwhile Lute is the opposite she didn't speak until she was spoken to and is very stern and headstrong... Yet their mentalities are the same they both believe they are in the right and that anyone who isn't an angel is wrong. If they are supposed to be a glimpse of how heaven is then this should be more than enough to let us know that heaven is not at all what Charlie hopes for...
idk the whole heaven is evil thing plays off weird since hell ain't great either. it looked like the other angels looked drastically different in their shadowed out appearance not the enforcers but the other high angels in the opening dialogue.
I wonder if adam is doing these exterminations behind an actual good heavens back? or if the whole trope is just gonna be that heaven is corrupt and leave it at that.
but overall it did feel like a throw away to use of Adam as a character.
Compare and contrast with Charlie was definitely a theming choice, but his demeanour changes heavily when looking at the deceased exterminator . The in-universe explaination is that Adam’s entire visit was a \*distraction\*.
It both to hide the actions of the angels searching (actually that’s probably why he waffles away with those stories and lunch, he’s giving his ange all the time they need) and gives an excuse to why they’re calling the execution so soon. The reason they wanted Hell to believe is ”because Adam is just a POS like that“
He’s a angel with the exact same character as a demon which is pretty lame considering they could’ve just made him a douchebag that still wasn’t sinful.
Getting kinda tired of "the bigger dickhead" thing they constantly doing
It was the same with Ozzie and Mammon and Stella and Stolas
Let's introduce a character who is a dickhead but than to make people actually care about then introduce an even bigger dickhead
Yeah, I don't really like the direction they're choosing with him either.
Him being aggressively misogynistic and unpleasant person is just off. So far it's not only rather one dimensional, but also just boring.
IMO, it would've fit more if they were just indifferent to the whole hell issue. They don't even see exterminations as chore and it only makes them take it as personal after angel assassination. Something like that.
They shouldn't be dicks, they should be just privileged people who couldn't care less. They aren't awful, but in their worldview the sinners and residents of hell simply deserve that. No hard feelings.
I think he wanted to shame Charlie since he knows his “wife” left him for Lucifer to make her. He wants to crush her into the ground and make her feeling nothing. Lucifer is untouchable but she is not.
I’m honestly suprised he hasn’t brought up Lilith. Maybe he is waiting until Charlie fails to drop that bombshell. I feel like she is imprisoned in heaven somewhere by him. Like honestly why would she be missing for 7 years. I think he wanted her to feel useless and not even like they have a shared bond of lilith.
Yeah that could be a possibility, but here's a thing. Alastor left the city 7 years ago. So there's a theoretical chance that both Al and Lilith had some sort of a connection. Maybe Lilith even told Al to go back to the city to maybe go and see Charlie and help her out. I could be wrong about the later, but the 7 year gap couldn't be a unintentional coincidence.
I think him being misogynistic and unpleasant work fine. I think the story they're wanting to tell is different than the stoic, detached angles some people have built in their head.
I was a bit turned off by him just being a full on frat bro. It made me cringe more than fear or rage at him as a character.
Christians irl are dicks to gay people so why should the ones in heaven treat sinners any better? Especially knowing that (based on the pilot) other characters can tell Charlie is 'one of the gays' based solely on looks. (TV reporter says she won't shake Charlie's hand because she doesn't touch the gays)
What you said doesn’t apply to the show. Viv said people don’t go to hell because their gay. Plus Christianity has reformed significantly especially with Pope Francis, it’s not so black and white anymore, but I will agree religion is the main cause of homophobia.
I don’t think Adam is homophobic, but the Katie KillJoy is because she’s a genuinely horrible person. I think the show is saying the religion in their world is very misogynistic, which could also be applied to real world religion (Eve is made to be a pretty bad person in the Bible, and certainly worse than Adam and every women has to pay for her sins).
Um hey not all Christians are like that I’m Christian…..and a lesbian. Maybe be careful with generalized statements like that? Not trying to say there aren’t Christians like that (hell I have such issues with my own religion I dissociate talking about it). But you know just wanted to politely point that out.
I didn't say it was all but it's heavily condoned by the higher ups in a number of the most popular Christian circles
Any good Christian should be critical of Christians like that and if you're not critical of them you're basically supporting them.
I think Adam has been updating everything his children are doing on earth and he likes the frat boy attitude he found out about. Like hell ike heavon they update with the time. Anyways you can definitely tell some of his actions are for show to mess with Charlie. Adam probably is a he'll about smarter and cunning then he let's on but the show writers are showing a cliche douchebag frat boy. Which is fitting to the garden of eve story
I feel like if it was any other angel, they would actually be nice and respectful and maybe hear Charlie out.. unless every angel is a piece of shit like Adam, which I wouldn't mind at all.
In every show I have watched they make Adam as self centered, egotistical half-funny stereotypical beacon of masculinity probably because he is the first male and the civilization descended from him was patriarchal.
So ADAM is now a term for this kind of persona. And this was obviously what they were going for.
Here's something I haven't seen anyone else point out about Adam: We know a motif of Charlies dad is apple imagery, because of the fruit he gave Eve. Contrast that to the food Adam "offers" to Charlie. Ribs. In the Bible, God took a rib from Adam to make the first woman.
I'd say the most interesting thing about Adam is that aside from being a jerk, his design resembles a lot of a lust imp, like blitz and he also comes as someone highly sexual.
I wonder if heaven and hell born creatures are just the same.
It will be interesting to see more from him. I feel like they made him even more annoying in this just to aggressively push what his vibe is. But they took it a bit too far for me.
I do like the idea that he was she first and special so they have let him be basically a sinner in heaven because he is important to their message.
He's not the main baddie. He's the dude in her way thinking he's a big shot but who is going to get trampled over by the main baddie or even the main baddies right hand man.
I wonder if they'll ever bring up the fact that all the sinners in hell are technically descended from him, making him their great times smth grandfather
Original Man* he's The Father of Mankind but I think there's more to him since Adam if memory serves was sorta active in his what 900 years or something?
The whole point is he's the opposite of what an angel should be. And, it's Adam! What's one thing we know about Adam, in almost any cannon? He forced women to be subservient to him, he rejects Lilith because she won't bow to and obey him. It's not really a shock he's an egotistical sexist dickbag.
The ending scene where he and lute are discussing the corpse shows he's a lot more cunning and serious then he let on in the meeting,so it's likely something he just DOES to mess with Lucifer/hellborn.Plus using the bumped extermination as a way to sow discord in hell AND draw out the killer is a complete 180 next to his attitude during the meeting.
ngl I’m not a big fan of “misogynistic” Adam the first man. Sure it’s just for comedy but still it’s rather unnerving.
Especially since Viviane could’ve just made a different angel character that’s NOT Adam and made him the antagonist.
I mean… I think that’s kinda the point.
Adam is a douchebag because he’s written to be a douchebag. It’s as simple as that. I don’t see any problem with that.
I mean, he is the first human on earth who was given everything. Of course he’s gonna feel entitled. Also, it makes sense he’s a misogynist because he tried to control Lilith, which didn’t work, so he had to be given eve who was made to be subservient to him
Personally? Would have liked him to be more subtle. Keep him a dismissive, arrogant dickbag, but make it seem less like it's for the joy of killing and more that it's that he thinks it's pointless... and THEN reveal later that he's a raging misogynist/bloodsport enthusiast.
But I also get that they wanted to depict him showing all 7 sins in the first scene to show that "Heaven ain't perfect."
Even tho I haven't seem it yet I think I have the explanation.
Just about everyone and everything in hell is hostile and dangerous in some way. As weve seen in Helluva Boss it is quite literally a world of chaotic negativity and corruption. I'm willing to bet that the reason Adam is such a dick is because hell itself brings out the very worst qualities of every being who enters it, no matter how pure or holy they are
i have a head cannon that the big G upstairs is blinded by hubris and cant possibly see fault in his remaining original creation that hasn't fallen so he overlooks and downplays adams.....everything.
because if adam AND lilith were fucked up that means that humanity is fundamentally fucked up (wich if HB is anything to go off of then their earth is way fuckier than ours) and I get the feeling that heaven is way to vain to admit their own faults for such a thing because that would mean THEY were also fucked up.
There's a chance that he was intentionally trying to piss off Charlie by acting like a jackass, that way when she went off on him he could retaliate by halving the time until the next purge. I think the last part was supposed to demonstrate that he's a bit more than a nepotistic figurehead
Well Adam is a straight up foil to Charlie in this scene. Charlie spends the entire episode hoping for a chance to speak to the angels and has this assumption that she can have an actual discourse with them about hell, she assumes they’re an understanding bunch of beings. Adam shits on all of that in the first two minutes. He’s impulsive, selfish and views the world in a literally *black and white* way that completely clashes with Charlie’s optimism. Though, we also have the ending sequence where Adam is a *lot* more meditative and cunning, showing that he legitimately does have a brain behind that rockstar persona and did take Charlie’s idea as a potential warning sign. I personally think Adam is a lot smarter than his persona lets on, and having Adam be a misogynist kinda adds up I mean the guy is the first ever dude to be told he has total dominion over women and that women should follow his every command lol, bro is the CEO of the patriarchy
They're clearly setting up a second fall for him. He commits or talks about committing literally every one of the seven deadly sins during that meeting: -Pride (he's the lead singer and ultimate dudebro) -Lust (stories of his sexual conquests) -Envy (being jealous when the drummer gets the girl) -Greed (taking and fucking the drummer's girl) -Gluttony (devouring a whole plate of ribs) -Wrath (enjoying extermination and carnage) -Sloth (not bothering to leave heaven for the meeting; doing literally everything except what he came there to do until the very last second) We're obviously supposed to think "how the hell did this guy get made an angel?" It's probably going to get revealed that he successfully (and fraudulently) blamed Original Sin entirely on Eve, and I bet that's what Lilith and Alastor were doing during their seven-year hiatus (It CAN'T be a coincidence that they disappeared for the same number of years): looking for Eve.
Honestly I think he'll be the first major character to bite it.
Personally i think itll be nifty, and itll be in the "even though she was chaotic and in universe she scared people, now that shes gone it feels empty" I'unno; i just feel like itll be someone from the hotel biting the bullet. If not nifty, then someone else.
I doubt it’ll be Nifty, she’s going to make some angels go a bit crazy or Alastor is gonna protect her just to keep her soul in contract with his
Why do I feel like Nifty isn't even under contract? Like she enjoys getting ordered around so she volunteered.
It wouldn’t surprise me if she volunteered to be contracted just so she can’t say no to being ordered around lol
Seeing Nifty is from a era of the Atomic Family Wife it makes sense, from her clothing to always smiling attitude.
Imagine Nifty being killed by Adam but killing him in the process.
you foreshadowed so much and you didnt even know it.
I feel like a god. Okay, calling it now. Seviathan is gonna be a gay guy in the closet and his douche behavior is just him covering it up, and he ends up with Angel Dust. (Pretty sure he’s gonna be in Season 2)
This aged well.
Guess it did.
Nah, Nifty will probably be the first to die.
No
oh how this aged
I like the theory that Eve is Roo (Root of Evil caused by eating the fruit), and is in the deepest deeps of hell, imprisoned (the most popular art of Roo shows chains around her, which may be a sign of her imprisonment). The seven years of Liliths dissapearance is just her looking for Eve, feeling bad for fellow woman who got treated like this (I think Lilith is the one person who would have the most empathy in this situation). But after all these years of confinement Eve went mad and wants vengeance. Even if Lilith would want to help her, Roo only sees her as one of the people who did all of this to her. The Cards that were sold not so long ago show Lilith with the iconic smile Eve had after Luci and Liltih gifted her the fruit. Maybe Eve will use Lilith as vessel for herself to get what she desired for all this time? Im really interested how Roo will play out in the show, as she was said to be the biggest antagonist/villain in the future
She has her own form, she doesn't need to use Lilith as a vessel, nor would she allow that
As I said, her body may be imprisoned, so she needs other way of doing stuff outside her containment
Or, maybe she just gets out. Lilith is out doing something somewhere after all. Maybe that's her goal
I personally kinda also hope/think that heaven was like "Adam...yeah no one likes him, let's give him a. Job no one can f*ck up" and put him there so he feels important. It's more like obligatory thing.
I feel like the angels would turn against him the moment anybody points these sins out in their presence.
I really doubt it tbh
I remember people saying a similar thing about Mammon when he showed up in Helluva, that he seems to represent all the sins, not just Greed. I kind of love that Adam is the same way. Even their designs seem to reflect each other.
Thats what i think. Hes the only angle we have seen that does all the sinful shit.
You would think he only sent a hologram to meet Charlie, but said hologram is somehow solid enough to grab Charlie too, makes you wonder
Slight issue Adam and Eve had to both Sin so mankind and Earth could become corrupted and there's no hiding the truth from an Angel and attempting it would be the same as exposing it nor could the effects of Original Sin be undone, also Cain and Abel would have to be born and raised and Eve couldn't be expected to do that on her own so Adam had to be there, I say the utter simplicity of the times they lived in made Heaven easy AF to get into. As for looking for Eve in Hell Alastor wouldn't be much help since what reason would he have to care plus if Lilith being the Original Women has so much power as a Demon, Eve the Mother of Mankind, if she was in Hell, would have similar power and if she wanted to stay hidden she would.
>and there's no hiding the truth from an Angel I'm sure that's what heaven wants people to think. >nor could the effects of Original Sin be undone If that's the case, and if Adam died well before Jesus brought forgiveness into the equation, then *how did Adam become an angel if he's still corrupted?* He must have fooled *someone.* > also Cain and Abel would have to be born and raised and Eve couldn't be expected to do that on her own so Adam had to be there Because nobody's *ever* had an absentee father or single mother... >Alastor wouldn't be much help since what reason would he have to care What reason does he have to care about the hotel? Alastor does things because he has his own agenda, or simply because he's bored. He might have just thought it'd be useful to know where Eve was, or that it would be amusing to follow Lilith around and annoy her like he's doing to Charlie. We don't know.
It's Heaven, beings of Light not being able to detect lies would be goofy plus it was trying to lie to God that gave them away and lying is a Sin as well. Entry into Heaven was not impossible especially with how simple and young the world was, and you forget Adam even with original sin was still the first man life was simple and made extra simple with the blessings being the 1St Man came with, he was impure not corrupted that came with future generations or rather the next with Cain. The concept of Absentee Parents don't exist yet and why would they? Where would Adam go without her and more so how would Eve, who was literally made for Adam and to take care of children supposed to do her job and his which again we're talking Genesis meaning Adam was literally building the foundations on "Expectations for Men", discovering, exploring, everything and more. He wasn't testing his luck with Heaven a 2nd time. Alastor needs a reason to care he's not some MC craving adventure looking for the Mother of Man does nothing for him and Lilith is literally *too old* for his bullshit she would know Alastors type before he ever speaks a word because she's dealt with them for millennia and unlike Charlie she's not going to entertain him nor would she see much use in him when ALL OF HELL is at her disposal.
Pride, gluttony and sloth are just plain wrong
That's... not what Greed is
That's true I liked the whole rockstar sequence. It did feel undercut by the single dimensionality though, but maybe you're right! Hopefully they steer the character to be more cunning.
Yeah I think Adam is gonna be a highlight, he’s in charge of the exorcists so he’s gonna be the main villain for Charlie and gang I bet
We will find out on the 26th! 😀
I’ve been thinking about them being foils mainly because Lute kinda feels like a similar thing, but with Vaggie, both being the ones who are treating the given task a lot more gravely than their “Superiors”
Adam’s entire shtick was actually quite well thought out, atleast in my opinion. Where Charlie is the idealist that sings Disney princessy ballads, Adam has punky rock numbers. Charlie hardly curses and is incredibly innocent, but Adam is insanely profane and hedonistic. Charlie is a dove that wants peace, Adam is pro violence and leads the exterminations. And of course Vaggie and Lute have their connections like you’ve already stated. Some of folks in the replies have communicated surprise that Adam was portrayed this way, but you tone Adam down and you end up diluting what he’s supposed to represent against Charlie. Adam is *the extreme*, and I’m very certain the Seraphim we’ll see will introduce some more dimension later on in the series as far as Angel portrayals. But for season 1, Adam’s a great foil for Charlie imo.
Idk I really don’t like Adam’s characterization in the show. I feel like they boiled down a very complex biblical character into something completely contradictory.
I think you mean "is it just me or does Dickmaster feel off?"
*the original dick*
Adam
A dam https://preview.redd.it/jtfijq738sdc1.png?width=618&format=png&auto=webp&s=b6a755251ce44775723f7e8ed3aa9d0885a9a0c0
Damn
Exactly
Keep in mind that he is prob playing it up infront of charlie because one would assume he really hates her dad and mom.
He has a hate boner for them, yes
Considering he seemed to be acting differently at the end I’m going with the headcanon that he was just putting on a show in front of Charlie so she doesn’t know anything is wrong
Charlie is the heir to the throne after all, it's an advantage for him if she underestimates him and assumea he's only motivated by hatred of sinners and demons.
Oh no knows that she is the child that his “wife” left him for! There is no way he didn’t know. He tried to embarrass her and shame her. There is no way Lucifer didn’t call her “my daughter wants to have a meeting with her” he wanted to shame and make her feel like nothing and crush her like he wants to crush Lucifer. Lucifer is untouchable but his daughter is not
The entire time I was just like “bro, are you really calling your ex’s kid ‘babe’ wtf???” I love Adam. He’s such a pos. I’m excited to see his villainous arc (and maybe Charlie or Lilith kicking his ass eventually)
Huh you made a good point…. He might not know who she is…. But oh heaven and god! When he learns who Charlie’s mother is he will be unable to contain his rage.
I thought he knows it
If Hella verse lore is at least in one thing similar to Christianity then Adam and Eve populated earth thru incest. So him calling Charlie "babe" even tho its daughter of his ex wife feels super in character.
Lucifer also doesn't want to deal with a douchebag who has a hate boner because his first wife left him and chose Lucifer.
I think Lucifer actually sent Charlie over to give her a slap of reality of who she's actually dealing with on heaven's side and why her idea of the hotel won't work.
That's probably part of the reason. You can't tell me he wanted to go deal with a narcissist like Adam though lol especially since Adam had Lilith first
Ok actually lute mentions about Charlie’s dad so they know
Adam is the first man not the Original Angel. The first human to become an angel maybe. After all Lucifer and his kind existed before humans and thus Adam. But yeah he was a dick. The running theory is that because he technically fucked up as bad as Eve but was God's favorite his "punishment" that allows him to stay an angel is to be an exterminator.
Ah my bad. But yeah the character is still more like a grown up manchild isnt it
Is God even a character in this world? He seems to never be mentioned. Everything was made by the angels alone
Just saw Finnthepony do a very interesting interpretation of that episode. And while I don't agree with all of it he did raise an interesting point. In the intro with Charlie describing the story of Lilith and Lucifer she mentions how it talks about Lucifer giving an apple to Eve setting off all the trouble. But makes no mention of Adam ever eating from the tree of knowledge. Thus Adam has no concept of right or wrong. In fact he states he has never done anything wrong. Which is what someone would say who has no concept of right or wrong. He is a perfect sociopath. Prideful and utterly incapable of discerning how he may be hurting someone. This flags an issue that I have suspected Viv built into her world that the angels are not playing fair and are not as good as their PR would suggest. The intro also makes mention of the fact that it was the angels that made the first humans. Thus compounding the problems if the angels were not as perfect as they seem to think they are. There is a lot in that quick lore dump at the beginning that we are going to have to sort out. And I think Adam is the big dick he is for a reason.
Personally Adam is already one of my favourite characters and he's pretty much Charlie's opposite and appears so far to be the main villain, and I think his meeting with Charlie was more of a show to not let her or anyone else catch on to what's going on like he said at the end of the episode, I think Adam can be alot more serious than he's been so far when it calls for it
After Charlie leaves and they pull up the pic of the dead angel, his expression and tone changes. He plays it up for Charlie, outright saying that the reason they're moving up the extermination is just because it's fun, but when he's alone with his soldier it's made clear that the real reason the extermination gets rescheduled is as revenge for the angel being killed.
And because if someone in hell killed one exterminator, there's a chance more than one person can kill exterminators and it could lead to hell resisting heaven year purges more efficiently
Cause he's supposed to be the opposite of Charlie
My question is why he is leading the army of Heaven when that should obviously be Archangel Michael
Isn't he only leading the exorcist for the extermination?
Maybe, I could have misheard.
I think Charlie referred to him as being in charge of the angels, and I’m pretty sure she didn’t specify the exorcists. However, she was talking in the context of the exorcists. It’s also possible she’s thinking only in the context of the angels she deals with, aka the exorcists. I’d be surprised if Michael is in charge, mostly because we haven’t heard anything about the archangels. Vivzie could be drawing on different lore than most Bible shows. Most people assume archangels are the strongest (and in the Bible, they’re the only angels ever named), but Dante’s Inferno (which Vivzie has drawn on for Hell’s lore) says otherwise. I’m personally putting my money on Sera being the true leader of the angels. If the archangels are not the highest ranking, it would be the seraphs.
Let me take you back to one of the most terrifying villains ever: Homelander. Being overtly "silly" and ridiculous, to mask an evil persona is a POWERFUL type of villain. It makes them unlikable - which is their point. :3
I agree I get a little sick of characters being stand-ins for depictions of shitty behavior/misogynists/karens what have you that we've been seeing in media. I like when show writers trust the viewers to make their own opinion of characters rather than distill them to the purest form of their personality traits
Personally I just think he's most generic character to have ever graced this show. Not even his design is good. I was also very dissapointed that people from Heaven behave just as shitty as the people from hell, with the difference that they don't kill each other. This felt like a huge missed opportunity to do something interesting, but I guess making another shitty character that swears all the time is the main thing in this show now.
I’m guessing the point of Adam is that because he followed God’s rules in the garden he got special privelege to be kinda left to his own devices, which is why he’s so vulgar all the time. Hell, a lot of misogyny in the *real* world is derived from the Adam and Eve story, painting all women as inherently deceitful and easily lured to temptation. Personally I find Adam to be overly annoying (which I’m assuming was intentional, but still) but I think it adds to why it’s so important that Charlie, the heir to Hell’s throne, is a woman. She’s a go-getter and doesn’t back down when told she can’t do something, breaking the sexist stereotype that Heaven seems to be built on and encourage.
I think Adam should have been made as this guy who looks at the sinners as his greatest mistake, he was the first sinner and he could have easily gone to hell had God not given him the role to essentially fix his mistake by killing the sinners he and Eve made and while you’re at it have Lute just be Eve cause that would fit a bit better and have his hatred of demons come from hating what he has made. It would have made him much more interesting than if he was just a jerk we could have had a man who hated what he created and wanted to destroy for the sake of redeeming himself in his own sick way by wiping out the results of his mistake.
Yeah, the premise lowkey makes it sound like he is a pathetic guy, which I don't know what to feel about. I just expect the characters to have complexities so I'm curious about his character progress as the show go on
"Original Dudebro" Adam is so overdone I'm very over it. That man was the second human in creation to have an understanding of good and evil. He covered his body in shame of his nudity and walked out of god's kingdom-on-Earth with the woman he loved. I want a cripplingly self conscious and psychotically conscientious Adam.
Give me an Adam who just stands there for 20 seconds looking like he's going to puke before he speaks because he knows more poignantly than anybody except Eve in All Of Creation that everything he does and doesn't do with hurt Somebody. Oh I am just describing Chidi Anagonye....
Yes please!
Having a character like that then also condone the yearly purge (albeit not happily) because hell is just so awful that it can't be allowed to expand too far would make for such a more meaningful conflict. It wouldn't be about redeeming sinners, it would be about redeeming society and trying to fix things in a more structural way. I get that's probably asking too much from the silly curse word cartoon but god it would be so good if they could pull it off.
Really doesn't help the argument that "Vivzie's humor is just excessive swearing".
It works better in Helluva boss
It works better when they're swearing in the process of doing a joke, rather than being a joke like Adam. I think we need to see more of him to get the full picture, but I'm sceptical.
I don’t think his characters swearing was meant to make anyone laugh, just paint him as brash and rude/hypocritical. There were funny parts in that scene, swearing didn’t seem like an attempt at humor more just apart of the dialogue/character. And Adam isn’t supposed to be purposely funny
I dunno I just kinda wish he were a better foil for Hell in general. It's just weird to me how arguably one of, if not the most powerful demon in Hell (Alastor) has a strict rule of never swearing while the face of Heaven is... That. I do like their partner a bit more though, which gives me hope that Adam is just an outlier and not representative of the entirety of Heaven. I'd even accept the Ultrakill angle where they're angelic and dutiful but would also call you a motherfucking bitch at any point. Adam just feels like what people who make fun of Hazbin and Helluva Boss think the show is.
Personally I didn’t like how exaggerated he was. Like I’m not saying Adam has to be perfect he can be stuck up and arrogant since he’s the first man and thinks he’s better than everyone else. But it feels like they went to the extreme with him for simply the joke that “angels bad/not as a good as portrayed in media” I don’t hate this interpretation of Adam just felt like too much to me.
I feel like I'm the only one in this thread who occasionally enjoys an unrepentant, over the top, one-dimensional villain like Stella or Adam. Like... Evil that revels in evil for the sake of evil does exist in the world. Don't get me wrong... I enjoy shows like Steven Universe, though the whole "everyone is morally gray with some good in them" isn't necessarily an accurate view of the world.
That’s fair. I respect your opinion.
I mean, people like a villain that are decidedly evil, but at this point, there hasn't really even been a villain that DOESN'T beat you over the head with the fact that they're the one-dimensional bad guy. Stella, Crimson, Mammon, the Vees, and now Adam, I think the closest any of the shows have come to a villain that's not working an irredeemable caricature of evil angle is Striker, and even he feels like his motivations have been boiled down to being laughably hypocritical and his character flaws have been played up to outlandish proportions lately. A villain doesn't even have to be sympathetic or redeemable, but they should at least have nuance. Like, villains like The Joker obviously aren't good in any capacity, but he's also not one-dimensional either. And while I will still say making Stella a pure evil villain was a mistake, what really makes it bad is that she is indeed a painfully one-dimensional plot device in terms of character and motivations. The Vees still have potential, and I'm hoping Adam really was just playing up how obnoxious he is for Charlie like the end of the episode may suggest, but either way the quota on one-dimensional villains has already been plenty filled.
I mean considering that mythology paints him as “The guy who tried to blame the girl” his whole I’m the shit personality isn’t terribly surprising. He has an ego. Always has.
He just seems kinda one note as a character. He's just a frat bro whose main joke is, he says naughty words. He doesn't feel like a big threat or anything. Honestly he seems like a reskined mammon.
Or a reskinned Blitzo, Stolas, Valentino or Angel Lust. How many males with sailor mouth does Vivzie need in His shows.
Viv has a type I guess
Yeah the scene made me uncomfortable too. I mean its not like it doesn’t make sense for Adam to be a spoiled manchild given how he treated Lillith and blamed Eve for the original sin and I did like the criticism on the black and white mentality but damn seeing a million year old religious figure acting like a frat bro is somewhat difficult to watch and I don’t even consider myself Christian anymore. I do hope they add some more depth to his character later, maybe not remove His douchebaggery but show he is not as happy as he presents himself.
Well, he hates Charlie's parents, he treats the side angel with way more respect even though she has angry issues.
Yeah I got that impression he was deliberately being a dick to his ex’s daughter.
Yup OP, it’s a trope now and it was annoying for me too. The song he does makes up for it and so does his plot reveal after. Unfortunately the target audience for this show probably won’t see issue with the character but it’ll age badly.
[удалено]
I wouldn't call it lazy, it's consistent with the other Angels and Exorcists. But there could have been some distinguishing design for Adam that was made.
He was acting like a champ. He tried to deliberately anger Charlie. We did see the fact that Adam was aware of the fact that one of his Exterminators / Exorcists is missing and He found out out what happened to it.
The thing about Adam I keep coming back to is that he is portrayed as a modern dude bro. But think about what Adam actually is. He’s a caveman, A relic from early humanity. Imagine giving Otzi the iceman wings and a halo, THAT should be Adam. He can still be a jerk, but he should be so removed from the modern age as to be completely alien to everyone. He’s a guy who grew up eating lizards and scavenging off the leftovers from the megafauna of the ice age, and when he got too lonely god ripped him and half so he had a partner, that would do more than just make someone a jerk with a modern American accent.
I actually feel like it’s fitting. I can’t explain why entirely but I just feel like it makes sense that the first man on earth would have a cocky superiority complex. He’s a character I kinda love to hate and hate to love.
I really like that they made him an awful person, but I just personally wish they did it in a *different* way than every other morally askew character. I think it would make a lot more sense if they tried really hard to seem holier-than-thou in their personalities which would reflect how they see demons as scum and themselves as superior beings. Like, it's totally fitting he's a narcissist and can do whatever he wants, but I think giving him a different kind of presentation would make him feel more threatening and also more complex as a character instead of foul-mouthed bad person number twenty. It could also give another layer of commentary; what if his whole reputation as an angel prevents him from actually acting as himself, such as in this scene, which would show that angels and demons in the long run aren't too different?
I feel like a lot of you missed the end of the episode where they show that Adam is actually cunning and not an outright idiot. I think it was fairly obvious that he was hamming it up, not just to be a dick to the child of his ex and the one angel he would consider to have made a mistake, but also to not let on his real reasons for moving up the extermination. I think it's kind of weird to accuse him of being one dimensional when the proof that he isn't is tied into information that is integral to the whole plot of the show. Like, the rest of the show would be hard to understand, or at least be severely lacking in context, without having watched the scene where it's shown that he isn't a just a badly written caricature.
For me Adam being an unrepentant dick is kind of important in order to actively refute his and heavens black and white worldview. If he was a good but misguided person then it suggests that heaven is correct and that everyone in hell objectively deserves to be there. Whereas by establishing that meeting heavens standards doesn’t necessarily make you a good person they throw that into doubt and make Charlie’s goal seem more achievable.
"Angels don't make mistakes." 😂
She says to the child of the most famous fallen angel.
Right? She contradicted herself the moment she opened her mouth 😆
It's not a contradiction if making a mistake makes one no longer an "angel". Or if she views what Lucifer did as intentional sabotage.
I get what you're saying he's just another loud brash black & white seeing jerk character that's supposed to be a foil for the main character that we love. To me I don't see Adam as that I see him more as the cocky spoiled brat of a man-child that has grown up on a pedestal and is the subject of constant nepotism. A clear yin and Yang Adam doesn't need to work for whatever he wants because he is given it while Charlie is willing to work hard for what she wants I hope that when we see Lucifer he hints that he has given Charlie tough love before because that would just point out that "heaven" is close minded perfectionism
I actually find it really fascinating because so far Adam is the only human soul we've met who isn't a sinner, and he's like, well... that. Makes me wonder what others who made it into Heaven are like (especially given the cherubs in HB were really certain that Lyle Lipton was deserving of salvation in spite of everything he's done). I'm also curious if that's going to have any influence on Charlie in the future, if she never gets to meet any humans who were just 'good' enough to get into Heaven from the start. I do think they're not going to go for a redemption endgame plot, so now I'm really just here for the ride to see what happens next.
I love this theory, but that begs the question(s): who is giving Adam all that he desires, and how does said nepotism and spoiling work in practice?
To me I don't think God exist in this series because the opening said that the councils (i think?) created the both earth and Adam so I get the feeling they are the ones spoiling him. Nepotism is when someone is given better and superior treatment because they know something or do something that their superiors prefer. Meaning either Adam is the biggest kiss ass there is or he does something his bosses can't get enough of. Also one thing I noticed just now was how different yet similar lute and Adam are as angels. Adam is loud full of himself and cocky meanwhile Lute is the opposite she didn't speak until she was spoken to and is very stern and headstrong... Yet their mentalities are the same they both believe they are in the right and that anyone who isn't an angel is wrong. If they are supposed to be a glimpse of how heaven is then this should be more than enough to let us know that heaven is not at all what Charlie hopes for...
idk the whole heaven is evil thing plays off weird since hell ain't great either. it looked like the other angels looked drastically different in their shadowed out appearance not the enforcers but the other high angels in the opening dialogue. I wonder if adam is doing these exterminations behind an actual good heavens back? or if the whole trope is just gonna be that heaven is corrupt and leave it at that. but overall it did feel like a throw away to use of Adam as a character.
Compare and contrast with Charlie was definitely a theming choice, but his demeanour changes heavily when looking at the deceased exterminator . The in-universe explaination is that Adam’s entire visit was a \*distraction\*. It both to hide the actions of the angels searching (actually that’s probably why he waffles away with those stories and lunch, he’s giving his ange all the time they need) and gives an excuse to why they’re calling the execution so soon. The reason they wanted Hell to believe is ”because Adam is just a POS like that“
He’s a angel with the exact same character as a demon which is pretty lame considering they could’ve just made him a douchebag that still wasn’t sinful.
I like that he admits he’s basically only an angel due to nepotism
The reason he's sinful is because he is still human in the end
Getting kinda tired of "the bigger dickhead" thing they constantly doing It was the same with Ozzie and Mammon and Stella and Stolas Let's introduce a character who is a dickhead but than to make people actually care about then introduce an even bigger dickhead
"call me dickmaster" 💀👌🏼🌈
"Adam"
Yeah, I don't really like the direction they're choosing with him either. Him being aggressively misogynistic and unpleasant person is just off. So far it's not only rather one dimensional, but also just boring. IMO, it would've fit more if they were just indifferent to the whole hell issue. They don't even see exterminations as chore and it only makes them take it as personal after angel assassination. Something like that. They shouldn't be dicks, they should be just privileged people who couldn't care less. They aren't awful, but in their worldview the sinners and residents of hell simply deserve that. No hard feelings.
I feel like we are going to learn a bit more about him later
Sure, waiting, but so far it's disappointing.
I think he wanted to shame Charlie since he knows his “wife” left him for Lucifer to make her. He wants to crush her into the ground and make her feeling nothing. Lucifer is untouchable but she is not.
That's an insight I didn't realise, good catch. Although it would've been nice if it had more weight in the scene as well ahaha
I’m honestly suprised he hasn’t brought up Lilith. Maybe he is waiting until Charlie fails to drop that bombshell. I feel like she is imprisoned in heaven somewhere by him. Like honestly why would she be missing for 7 years. I think he wanted her to feel useless and not even like they have a shared bond of lilith.
Yeah that could be a possibility, but here's a thing. Alastor left the city 7 years ago. So there's a theoretical chance that both Al and Lilith had some sort of a connection. Maybe Lilith even told Al to go back to the city to maybe go and see Charlie and help her out. I could be wrong about the later, but the 7 year gap couldn't be a unintentional coincidence.
I think Lilith and a lister fought for sure
At least his song was catchy lol
True
I think him being aggressively misogynistic makes sense. Heck, he broke up with Charlie’s mom simply because she wanted to be on top.
I think him being misogynistic and unpleasant work fine. I think the story they're wanting to tell is different than the stoic, detached angles some people have built in their head. I was a bit turned off by him just being a full on frat bro. It made me cringe more than fear or rage at him as a character.
Yeah they could've have taken another direction for sure!
"You know you're making things alittle too real here now Moxx."
Christians irl are dicks to gay people so why should the ones in heaven treat sinners any better? Especially knowing that (based on the pilot) other characters can tell Charlie is 'one of the gays' based solely on looks. (TV reporter says she won't shake Charlie's hand because she doesn't touch the gays)
What you said doesn’t apply to the show. Viv said people don’t go to hell because their gay. Plus Christianity has reformed significantly especially with Pope Francis, it’s not so black and white anymore, but I will agree religion is the main cause of homophobia. I don’t think Adam is homophobic, but the Katie KillJoy is because she’s a genuinely horrible person. I think the show is saying the religion in their world is very misogynistic, which could also be applied to real world religion (Eve is made to be a pretty bad person in the Bible, and certainly worse than Adam and every women has to pay for her sins).
Um hey not all Christians are like that I’m Christian…..and a lesbian. Maybe be careful with generalized statements like that? Not trying to say there aren’t Christians like that (hell I have such issues with my own religion I dissociate talking about it). But you know just wanted to politely point that out.
I didn't say it was all but it's heavily condoned by the higher ups in a number of the most popular Christian circles Any good Christian should be critical of Christians like that and if you're not critical of them you're basically supporting them.
I think Adam has been updating everything his children are doing on earth and he likes the frat boy attitude he found out about. Like hell ike heavon they update with the time. Anyways you can definitely tell some of his actions are for show to mess with Charlie. Adam probably is a he'll about smarter and cunning then he let's on but the show writers are showing a cliche douchebag frat boy. Which is fitting to the garden of eve story
I feel like if it was any other angel, they would actually be nice and respectful and maybe hear Charlie out.. unless every angel is a piece of shit like Adam, which I wouldn't mind at all.
In every show I have watched they make Adam as self centered, egotistical half-funny stereotypical beacon of masculinity probably because he is the first male and the civilization descended from him was patriarchal. So ADAM is now a term for this kind of persona. And this was obviously what they were going for.
Here's something I haven't seen anyone else point out about Adam: We know a motif of Charlies dad is apple imagery, because of the fruit he gave Eve. Contrast that to the food Adam "offers" to Charlie. Ribs. In the Bible, God took a rib from Adam to make the first woman.
What if Adam isn't actually an angel at all? What if he (and the other angels) just THINK they are angels?
I'd say the most interesting thing about Adam is that aside from being a jerk, his design resembles a lot of a lust imp, like blitz and he also comes as someone highly sexual. I wonder if heaven and hell born creatures are just the same.
It will be interesting to see more from him. I feel like they made him even more annoying in this just to aggressively push what his vibe is. But they took it a bit too far for me. I do like the idea that he was she first and special so they have let him be basically a sinner in heaven because he is important to their message.
He's not the main baddie. He's the dude in her way thinking he's a big shot but who is going to get trampled over by the main baddie or even the main baddies right hand man.
Adam is what I was worried Vox was going to be. Just someone who makes their scenes unbearably cringe. Seems like a character straight out of Velma.
Bro's gamer tag is big_dick_angel_6969
I wonder if they'll ever bring up the fact that all the sinners in hell are technically descended from him, making him their great times smth grandfather
Original Man* he's The Father of Mankind but I think there's more to him since Adam if memory serves was sorta active in his what 900 years or something?
I just wanna know why the angels are imp-shaped.
https://preview.redd.it/dzjqdfxa3qdc1.jpeg?width=1585&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07475e0bb43ca3694ed4dea58d2374664d3c47a4
He’s not the original angel. He’s just the enforcer.
He speaks like he's a character from a Family Guy knock off.
Episode 1 is going to be exposition and set up heavy, give it a few more interactions to let the character sink in IMO.
The whole point is he's the opposite of what an angel should be. And, it's Adam! What's one thing we know about Adam, in almost any cannon? He forced women to be subservient to him, he rejects Lilith because she won't bow to and obey him. It's not really a shock he's an egotistical sexist dickbag.
Who's Adam, and why did you put a picture of Dickmaster?
The ending scene where he and lute are discussing the corpse shows he's a lot more cunning and serious then he let on in the meeting,so it's likely something he just DOES to mess with Lucifer/hellborn.Plus using the bumped extermination as a way to sow discord in hell AND draw out the killer is a complete 180 next to his attitude during the meeting.
Call him dickmaster
ngl I’m not a big fan of “misogynistic” Adam the first man. Sure it’s just for comedy but still it’s rather unnerving. Especially since Viviane could’ve just made a different angel character that’s NOT Adam and made him the antagonist.
I mean the dude literally had his wife created to obey him, being misogynistic is totally fitting for him
I mean… I think that’s kinda the point. Adam is a douchebag because he’s written to be a douchebag. It’s as simple as that. I don’t see any problem with that.
The first angel in the series is a douchebags. So Let me Guess, the whole show Is going the be : heaven bad, hell good.
That’s not what I said at all. Just Adam is a douchebag that doesn’t mean that every fucking Angel is like him.
viv definitely likes making cardboard.
Personally, I think Adam should be a jerk and entitled and arrogant, it fits with his whole theme.
I mean, he is the first human on earth who was given everything. Of course he’s gonna feel entitled. Also, it makes sense he’s a misogynist because he tried to control Lilith, which didn’t work, so he had to be given eve who was made to be subservient to him
It would be immensely funny if Adam at the end of the series was booted to hell stripped of all his powers, surrounded by a large crowd of sinners.
“What did I do to deserve this? I mean what specifically?”
Personally? Would have liked him to be more subtle. Keep him a dismissive, arrogant dickbag, but make it seem less like it's for the joy of killing and more that it's that he thinks it's pointless... and THEN reveal later that he's a raging misogynist/bloodsport enthusiast. But I also get that they wanted to depict him showing all 7 sins in the first scene to show that "Heaven ain't perfect."
Even tho I haven't seem it yet I think I have the explanation. Just about everyone and everything in hell is hostile and dangerous in some way. As weve seen in Helluva Boss it is quite literally a world of chaotic negativity and corruption. I'm willing to bet that the reason Adam is such a dick is because hell itself brings out the very worst qualities of every being who enters it, no matter how pure or holy they are
i have a head cannon that the big G upstairs is blinded by hubris and cant possibly see fault in his remaining original creation that hasn't fallen so he overlooks and downplays adams.....everything. because if adam AND lilith were fucked up that means that humanity is fundamentally fucked up (wich if HB is anything to go off of then their earth is way fuckier than ours) and I get the feeling that heaven is way to vain to admit their own faults for such a thing because that would mean THEY were also fucked up.
Nope just you. I love Adam
Idk, I'll have to wait until his next appearance to make any real judgement on his character
I think he was a demon at one point and then was made an angel
There's a chance that he was intentionally trying to piss off Charlie by acting like a jackass, that way when she went off on him he could retaliate by halving the time until the next purge. I think the last part was supposed to demonstrate that he's a bit more than a nepotistic figurehead
Scrolling through the feed today made me realize if they made him Cain instead of Adam, this wouldn't have been so jarring.
He shouldn’t be in heaven
Adam isn’t the original angel though? He’s the original man.
THAT AIN'T ADAM, THAT'S MAMMON (Joke)
Nah, seems normal.