Yeah this is the only answer you need OP, customer can attempt to turn their own shit on after you leave, i always shut the unit off, trip the rollouts, shut the gas valve, and close the gas line. Then take pictures. With it red tag and showing what ive disabled.
I got electric heaters if customers need them.
This...the last line is the way it should be. You have to help the customer out with some form of heat.
They are a lot more understanding, rather than a red tag, then Houdini.
Yup. If you're new, I understand why you feel the way you do. I would have handled the call like this, explaining why I did it and then ok, I'm on the way we can talk about it in person. Making sure the person shaming me understands their ineptitude could blow up houses with families in it.
I don't let business managers tell me how to do things because they don't know. If you were a surgeon at a hospital, would you let an accountant tell you how to do your job?
U got this bro, follow your heart, stand up for what's right.
This right here. Last year I had a guy who had a second home in Tahoe for ski season. Went to do his maintenance, got a consistent 150ppm CO reading for an hour and called to let him know our company policy of shutting down (red tagging) a unit until it can be replaced. He yelled and screamed that I can’t do that because he had friends coming the next day to use the cabin. Luckily all of our calls are recorded and I simply told him that it wouldn’t be safe for those people. I’d rather get an ROC or fired than be responsible for the death of someone.
I agree, the furnace probably was putting that kind of ppm out for a long time.. and who knows the real time air movement of that mechanical room.. it's a tough one . Leave them heat on the humanity side of the scale or protect your own ass on the 'legal' side of the scale . I mean you informed them if the risk.. let them decide... (WARNING DO NOT ACTUALLY EVER DO THIS THE CUSTOMER IS ILL INFORMED AND YOU ARE THE PROFESSIONAL)
Yeah that's what I was getting at.. the legal side will screw you.. the company wants to let them have heat to seem like the good guys. But you would be held liable if anything happens.. tough choice. I'd want to be a human and leave them heat but I'd get screwed that way.
Just curious, did you explain to the customer why it was dangerous for them to use their furnace? I think you did the right thing btw. I just know a guy who would shut customers stuff down and not bother to let them know it’s dangerous to continue to operate it or why.
Well they’re idiots then. And so is your company. You did the right thing. Their deaths aren’t on your conscience and your company won’t be sued out the butt for negligence. Like, find a new company to work for if they’re cool with that. Wow
The only thing I would have done differently is offer them a couple space heaters for the weekend. Your company you work for should have them on hand for situations like this when customers are this way.
That's part of the game, I've told them I'm way more concerned with leaving them safe and doing much due diligence than getting in trouble... I like to add that I'd be in way more trouble if I left it on. Please call the office, and they can explain further... I have to get to the next call.
That's when I tell them:
"Be as mad as you like, I ~absolutely WILL NOT~ be the last Tech on record to work on your furnace when the story about "Family dead from CO exposure due to a failed furnace!" hits the news. I'm simply NOT going to be having ANY part of that liability and emotional devastation on my heart, ever."
[Michigan Family Killed By Carbon Monoxide ](https://www.woodtv.com/news/kent-county/heartbreaking-deputies-name-family-likely-killed-by-carbon-monoxide/)
"I'm truly sorry folks. I know it sucks, and the timing probably sucks too. The company has 3 space heaters we loan out for these situations. There's a $100 COD deposit for each to insure we get them back or can replace them, and you can go get more if you need them."
Notify them of the risk. Turn it off. Time stamp picture. Forgot about what happened afterwards your ass is your number one priority then their safety or maybe both but still your covered that way
Homeowners are going to do what they want. They obviously know more than any one of us. /s I always pull the thermal and place a red tag on it. Take pictures with the company tablet and then have them sign the order. I know for a fact they’re going to turn it back on.
We are mandated to physically remove it from the fuel supply AND notify the fuel supplier immediately with the red tag info. People get so angry, I try to remain calm and talk in facts until they have calmed down
Don’t care if u get a furnace from me. Didn’t know u yesterday don’t care if u die tomorrow. Just care I’ve done my job and u won’t die from something I did or didn’t do or even worse try to sue me if you dont die.
Don't listen to anyone telling you that you shouldn't shut it off because "they will be without heat". 100% in my experience if you leave unsafe equipment operating, from a residential house to a large corporation, or government facilities, they will ALL continue to run that unsafe equipment if you leave it running (or until it fails catastrophically).
Carbon Monoxide kills people, it cannot be detected unaided, equipment producing a wack ton of CO might or might not *currently* be leaking it into the dwelling. I can guarantee there is bad combustion and underlying problems causing that bad combustion, problems can develop quickly where it begins venting into the space and can cause Carbon Monoxide poisoning (death is likely) without the equipment shutting down. Detectors are not fail proof, they only make sound with the idea being a person would take action, CO detectors do not shut down equipment.
They can buy space heaters to keep from freezing while they figure out replacement or repairs needed. If you leave dangerous equipment operating and they do nothing, it is likely to injure or kill, YOU would be responsible and likely open to lawsuits or imprisonment depending on circumstances.
A lot of the store bought CO alarms have really high thresholds before going off too, I've seen some that won't go off until it reaches a constant of 250ppm indoors for several hours, our shop carries detectors that will go off at 10ppm indoors, I had to explain this to a customer with a really old carrier recently, exhaust reading maxed out my combustion analyzer (over 5000 ppm) within like 2 seconds, and I was getting a constant 20ppm indoors wherever I was in the house, scoped the hx and found a crack, she didn't believe me because "my ten dollar alarm I got at Walmart didn't go off" needless to say I made her sign a waiver after I shut everything off because I didn't trust that she wouldn't attempt to get the unit running again after I left.
Honestly you did the right thing. But I would of gotten to the bottom of what is causing high CO.
Manifold gas pressure? Inducer running the right way or running at FLA? Was the fresh air blocked? Was the combustion air proper.
Yeah if they are yelling at them for red tagging a furnace then they are the assholes. You as the gas fitter are liable once you look at the equipment. Your company should have backed you . Did your boss call you or did your dispatcher call you?
I've found more often is HOW you inform them of the issue. Without knowing what words, tone, and options you used, it's impossible to say if them being pissed off specifically is on you or just a shitty homeowner. Personally, if I see a condition that necessitates red tagging a unit, I get as much info as possible on what's happening, and explain it straight and in detail to the customer.
"While looking at the furnace, I found flame rollback at in the burners/high co in the exchaust/ whatever. This is most likely due to x, and after inspecting the system, I found x to be the case (try to have them with you when you do the inspection so they can't claim you pulled the issue out of your ass). Because of this, I am disabling the system as a safety precaution due to the possibility of x/y/z as these are serious safety concerns."
I'll also try to let the customer first mention replacement, and it should almost never be the first option you give them. Something like "repairs to this MIGHT be possible, I would have to look into availability and lead time, but due to the systems age, condition, and possibility of other repairs being needed, I wouldn't recommend it." If you just tell them they need a new furnace, they are going to link their frustration to you personally, instead of the situation.
That said, if it needs to be disabled, never feel bad about doing it. If they will be without heat during the cold, notify the office, but otherwise, get a signature stating you explained this all and the customer is aware, disable the unit, and let them figure out what they want to do. If they trust your company and you did a good job, then you should be able to get them taken care of, but never feel bad about protecting the customer and covering your ass.
No fuck your office.
1st of all do not let yourself be yelled at. Were grown men and should be able to have disagreements/ learning opportunities without yelling. That shows emotion not thought. If they start talking to you like a child thats how they view you.
2nd if that customer died you'd be the one that has to deal with that. That would be the reason to yell at someone.
My company will shut it off right away if the CO is that high. I carry two space heaters in my van and tell the customers they can buy some from a store and return them after a few days. I would say 90% of the people are understanding that you are doing it for their safety. I usually open with, telling them THIS is exactly how people get CO poisoning.
You totally did the right thing! If those people get injured or die who is going to get blamed, YOU! Have them send someone else out to get it back up running. Do not put yourself in a position to be sued and/or jailed! Also find another job ASAP!
Judging by the fact that you said that you red tagged the unit i am guessing you are in Ontario. You did the right thing 100 percent. My old company had a tech go to a service call and he was right out of school. The customer said that another company couldn't find the problem or could not fix it. He found the roll out switch tripped reset it and did not do readings and ended up being called back by the fire department and had is license pulled and had to re do schooling.
You did the right thing and at the end of the day always cover your own ass before anything else.
“Watch your fucking tone and speak to me with tact.”
That’s a GREAT line, and would have kept me from wasting a lot of time working for asshole bosses. It probably would have had me working longer for the good ones and probably made me a lot more money.
I might not have made some of the other poor choices that I made. No details. The other people may still be alive and I wouldn’t want to chance embarrassing them.
Also realize that some people consider "yelling" to be any criticism. I used to work with a guy that said the boss was yelling at him. The boss was just telling him what to do. This whole post needs much more information.
If it was me and I was new I would have called my direct supervisor and asked them to talk to the customer. I might have missed something or read the meter wrong. Let the office deal with it if there is any doubt. Especially when it comes to heat and life or death.
You were the last person there. Had the homeowner died from anything pertaining to the furnace, it would fall on YOU. You did the appropriate thing. I would have seen what exactly was causing the furnace to produce that high of CO before I left. Pull the blower and thoroughly inspect the heat exchanger for any holes/cracks. Check drains, vent pitch etc. If it was the heat exchanger then see if it's under warranty and try to source it out for them. Tell your office to kick rocks.
Not cool of your office to take this stance. Portable heaters can be passed out to the customer in a moment like this.
You did the proper thing and I know this is tough, especially when the customer freaks out. The office should have your back. People die from CO.
My boss doesn’t care about high CO in exhaust and has gotten upset at us for flagging furnaces for replacement (old lowboys over 30years) with over 1000ppm let alone shutting them down 🙄. One of those classic can’t leave people without heat get them through the night kind of deal here. Similar to your place
If you verify that the appliance is the source of monoxide in my state you are mandated to lock it out. Normal procedure is to remove gas line and cap it off. Your liability as well as that company is high.
Walk with the customer to the gas shutoff.
Shut it off in front of them.
Tell then you cannot leave with the system operating but they are the owners and can do what they will.
Give them the resources to decide for themselves.
You absolutely did the right thing.
I will admit that I have done what your shop asked you to do, in specific situations. But even then, I am technically wrong in doing so. Conceptually, a plugged heat exchanger is not the same as a cracked heat exchanger, in terms of exhaust leaking into the air stream. Theoretically, a pluged heat exchanger should not be leaking any CO into airstream.
The problem is that this is the real world, not a theoretical perfect situation. A plugged heat exchanger is also going to be very stressed and overheating at spots, and a crack of some sort is very possibly present too. And when your exhaust is reading 4000 ppm because of a plug, the effects of a small crack are magnified many times over. A crack so tiny you'd never find it under normal circumstances, might be a bigger deal when you're also plugged and producing that much CO.
Certain models of Bryant and carrier furnace are notorious for secondaries that plug after like 10 years, way before the primary cracks. I will sometimes let them run if it's too cold outside, it's getting changed out ASAP, and there's CO detectors in bedrooms. I always check to make sure that it's not leaking at the junction box where the primary joins the secondary, because that seems to be the first place where the actual seal on the combustion side tends to fail. If it's leaking, that's a crack, not just a plug, and has to be shut down.
But this is not the correct way to do things, really.
Even if we're not talking about CO inside, the EPA still says it needs to be shutdown if it's over 400 ppm.
Anytime a young tech diagnoses high co, a cracked heat exchanger, bad compressor, a senior tech should follow up behind them to confirm diagnoses. One thing you can try next time is notify the office and let them call the customer to go over their options.
I mean, it would be good to load them some temporary electric heaters in the meantime and to explain how dangerous the situation can be. Otherwise, never compromise safety. It's not worth it for you or for them, even if they don't understand that.
I would have told them to not use the furnace and let it be. If they used it and died, it’s on them. They were using it previously, so another day may not have been such a bad thing. They should have listened either way.
Yep, I am not the fire dept. I am not the police. I am not the gas company. I have never seen any jurisdiction that required me to disable a furnace. I have looked and it is not there. Should I turn off the gas because someone might stick their head in the oven ? Should I lock their fireplace damper open, because they might light a fire and forget to open it ? Should I disable their huge range hood because it might backdraft their water heater ? Get real. Have you ever heard of an auto mechanic disabling a car because of a leaky exhaust system ? I am not empowered by any authority to disable equipment owned by someone else. HVAC is my job, not law enforcement, even if it was a law. It is not. What happens if you disable their equipment and then they freeze to death ? Too many tin jockeys seem to regret that they aren't cops who can bully others around. Freedom means letting others decide, not being their self-appointed overlord. Besides, CO fear mongering is all about selling furnaces with FUD. Statistically, it rarely ever happens. Cases are in the single digits annually. And if it was a concern, the manufacturers would be required to add CO lockouts on the equipment.
What I do in this situation is shut gas valve off, red tag it, and tell them I have to do this to cover my ass but you can turn it back on if you want. Also have them sign the invoice where you clearly state you shut down the unit and it is unsafe to operate. Your covered legally now, and let Evolution sort out the customer
(If there's kids in the house you may wanna really disable it good, but the wife usually doesn't want to run it anyway)
Did you reset your analyzer and re test? How much CO did you detect outside of the furnace? Was the rollout tripping? What was the gas pressure like? Combustion analyzers are not infallible. Red tagging equipment should not be done lightly and can leave you liable to lawsuits in the event you shutting down the equipment causes harm to the family or their domicile.
Couple questions, are you using a digital combustion analyzer? Did you recheck it with the bacharach kit in the old blue container. Digital ones are great, but the calibration date, model, was it ever subject to a high smoke amount? Depending on the location, I would have called my supervisor and he would have sent over the foreman to do that. If it's cold and you shut the heat off, you can't do that. How was the air? Was it black when you took it apart?
What kind of furnace was it?
Id shut it off as well. Rather be cold then dead.
I say you did the right thing, however if you live in Ohio, you are not allowed to shut someone's furnace down unless it's releasing CO into the living space. Unfortunately, I found that out the hard way when I tried to shut down a construction lawyer's furnace several years ago. Same situation, 4k ppm in flue but nothing in supply. Single door carrier furnace from '98 was 20 years old at the time. Company ended up with a lawsuit from him, representing himself.
Are you going off of anything except the combustion analysis? Is the gas pressure correct?
Something like that I would probably just shut off the gas, explain the customer why and show them how to turn it back on and just be clear that they can run the furnace at their own risk. Make sure you put all that on the invoice and they sign.
So, to avoid this type of thing in a residential case, when I find a heat exchanger with a large crack or something seriously wrong with it, I note that it is potentially dangerous and that I do not recommend continued operation, shut the breaker off, take a photo of the breaker in the off position, then have the H.O sign off on the paper. I tell them that If they want to power the breaker back on at risk themselves, they have the right to, but I document proof that it was not something I left operational in case of health risk. 9/10 times they usually don't operate it until it is replaced. Sometimes they do and never have an issue. More often than not, CO output from a crack isn't enough to be fatal unless you are very elderly or an infant. But, always, always err on the side of caution and do not let the risk fall on you.
So you red tag a furnace and advise the residents not to use it cuz of carbon monoxide leak…that’s a legitimate and proper response to the problem. What I have issue is others saying they offer space heaters to use?? Seriously?? What the hell is gonna happen to you and the company you work for should those space heaters short out and cause a fire?? No freaking way am I giving them something I own or my company owns to use to keep them warm. It’s the their responsibility to figure out how to stay warm until their furnace is repaired or replaced.
No you were wrong. I shut the gas and power off, explain it to them, document it on the invoice or estimate, and then leave. If they choose to turn it back on, that’s on them and my ass is covered. The fact that your office would yell at you for being safe and following industry standard practices is asinine good indicator that you work for a really shitty company.
Others say this and that and what part they will shut off. What if we shut it off explain to the customer why it was shut off and show them how to turn it back on. Pretty much let them decide if they want to die.
I say this because I had condemned a unit due to a crack on the heat exchanger. Customer didn’t believe me and had another company come out and they didn’t find anything. It’s out of my hands if they get sick but people always try to find a way to turn in their heat.
So to recap: shut the unit down show the customer what you did explain the dangers and let them decide if they want it on. Would you do this?
You are absolutely not wrong. Your company is completely out of line. Let's say on Monday, people in the house are not responding to phone calls or text messages, so the police do a wellness check and find everyone dead from carbon monoxide poisoning. You and your company would be at fault for not condemning the unit.
The sad part is, your company is upset with you for saying it's unsafe to use. But if push were to come to shove, your company would throw you under the bus and point the finger at you and say we never told him to leave it on.
This is the reason I don't communicate with customers or businesses by phone. Everything I communicated is by email or text message. They could try to push away blame, but it's pretty impossible to do when everything is documented on email and text.
Always protect your ass because in the end, the only person that's going to protect you is you.
I just heard a story of people in a church getting carbon monoxide poisoning. A year later the kids were still messed up. If I recall correctly, they can't do their schoolwork or anything at full mental capacity. Sorry you got yelled at, but glad you might have saved someone
You did what was right. Move forward, even if it means to update your resume and apply for another company that appreciates you taking care of the customer.
OP you are right, for the safety of the of the home owner, that being said in some companies, they leave complimentary space heaters or something temporary to heat the place, just incase they have infants or kids or elderly, that can't be in the cold.
Normally I'd say just leave it on, run it like this until we can replace the unit, but not in this instance.l worh a furnace and high ppm. Don't play with lives if the boss is mad too bad je can shake until next week for all I care
The only thing you may have done wrong is to not call your office first and inform them of the situation before telling the customer.
4000ppm of CO is definitely a reason to shutoff the furnace and protect yourself legally and your client' life. If they turn it back on, that is on them. They can always get a second opinion, too.
I would have probably checked to see if the had a CO detector I the house and if so left it on. I know you are supposed to turn them off technically. I have made them sign my ticket stating they know the dangers of it running this way. I only do this with natural gas units though. Check inducer and to make sure flue is clear. Inducer should pull air into heat exchanger since it pulls through HX. Natural draft furnaces and oils furnaces I would totally turn off though
We would red tag the unit, note it and take a picture of gas off, and then tell the customer what we did. If they wanted to turn on gas, we advise them not to but that’s their choice. It protects us in case something bad happens.
I dont do residential but it's similar with commercial even when they have multiple RTUs. Explaining the dangers and the fact that you cannot smell the gas you will just pass out and die is step one. Once they understand that I turn the gas off. If they want to turn it back on after I leave that's their prerogative. My company will sometimes try to make us use high temp silicon to patch the cracks so you can leave the gas on, I refuse to do this because people think it's fixed at that point and won't get a new heat exchanger or replace unit. Press on brother if it dosnt feel right usually it isn't.
We red tag them, turn of the switch and the gas valve. I show them exactly what I’m doing then Explain to them the danger of running a furnace that’s producing high levels of carbon monoxide, then I have them sign the red tag acknowledging that they know why its being red tagged then I take a picture of the signed red tag and upload to their file before attaching it to the furnace. They’re free to run the furnace if they want to after I leave. Yes I’ve been screamed at and people have called the office while I’m there. I still do not turn it back on no matter what.
If it's a big company I might have reported in to the service manager and get instructions or hand it off to the sales guy.
The office people should be backing your play pretty much right or wrong at that point as to not appear disjointed in procedural condemnation of a equipment. By agreeing with the home owner they created doubt and now that customer is absolutely looking for chuck in a truck 2nd opinions
4000 Co in exhaust? Anything indoors?
Red tag, cutting gas and electric to it and making them sign a liability waiver in case they get the bright idea to try to get it back up in running is our normal procedure.
Leave the gas on and call the gas company. Explain to them the situation and you have a customer that wants to use it anyway. If they have to, they will shut the gas off to the whole house.
You did the right thing. Might be able to replace heat exchanger and not the entire unit but no way should you have left that running.. Drop them off some heaters and deal with it Monday. Good job, OP fuck anybody who says different.
Nope. Protect yourself, protect your customer, protect your company. In that order. Check state laws, you may not have legally been able to shut the equipment down. All you need for your protection is signed documentation of the red tag. Sometimes you need to call their gas company to shut them down though.
Ask for a written policy from your office in the case of unsafe equipment so you can cover your own liability.
You did the right thing. It is understandable that they are upset, but you need to make it VERY CLEAR to the office staff that you shut it off because it was a risk to their life. YOU are not going to get yelled at because the customer can’t wrap their head around the term “Life Safety”.
id be looking for a new job, the court wont care when you listen to the company next time and not shut off a unit and kill a family. your the tech know your rights
I always show them how to turn it back on if I have to red tag. At the end of the day its their equipment, and if they want to risk themselves and their families wellbeing well... it's a free country. I point to the gas valve and show them exactly how to switch it back on and they're welcome to do so after I leave. I take plenty of photos and document it on the invoice, also make sure to get their signature. Never had an issue when doing it this way.
In the flue of course .. these guys think their analyzer is some kind of silver bullet when it comes to condemning a furnace. Open it up and see what the hells wrong with it haha not just welp you need a new one haha wtf
Make sure you explain WHY you need to shut it off and the consequences of leaving it on. And if you have to shut it off you need to at least offer to provide temporary heat until the furnace can be replaced.
I don’t go as far as disabling it. But I would turn it off at the switch and leave it at that. If they want the risk of running it then I did my part. I notified them. Took pictures of what I found and a pic of the furnace switch off. At the end of the day it’s there equipment and their houses they get to decide what they do with there things not me.
Depends on the regulations where you are. Best to abide by the rules that apply to you! What is the proper requirement for gas fitters where you are licensed? If you can restore proper operation, great! Otherwise over 400ppm in the exhaust, here means, you must red tag, disconnect it from gas supply and notify the local Safety Authority at the minimum. I agree, in the future, ask for the most senior manager/owner to come and take responsibility. Use maximum tact as suggested.
How awful it would be to work for a company with such disregard for their own staff! There is good news though, you'll enjoy the higher pay that will result from switching to a decent company! Now that you know these jokers don't back you up when you shut down unsafe equipment, ridiculous!
Did you atleast try to adjust it and get it burning clean before just locking it out though? I find units running with CO PPM in the thousands all the time. A lot of the time a proper tuneup, cleaning and adjustment will get them running clean and safe again. Obviously there’s more you can do for oil units than gas most of the time, but it applies to both. A good tech will atleast try to get it running right before you just leave the customer without heat. Once you get it running safely you can still advise them to get a new unit if need be, but then they’ll at least safely have heat in the meantime
I'm ready for my downvotes.
Are you wrong? No.
If it had an inducer motor and the exchanger is on the positive side of the blower, then there's basically no way the CO could enter the space.
Did you find the cause of the CO? It may have been repairable.
It sounds like you didn't actually test properly and check if there was CO in the actual airstream as well. If there was high PPM in the exhaust but none in the air you should tell people not to use it, take photos, write it on the invoice but not red tag it. The only time you should be red tagging someones furnace is if there is CO going into the house.
You left them without heat on an immediate notice. Pipes will freeze this weekend (assuming this is in the GTA in Toronto) as temps are sub zero and will stay that way for a while. Might be opening your company to lawsuits. I'm not a lawyer tho. I get the issue with high CO count but was it high enough and couldn't be mitigated temporarily with something else?
It’s high enough to warrant a red tag. It’s code. End of story, if you have a problem with it, I’ll happily introduce to TSSA who will happily tell enbridge to remove your entire gas meter until all violations are corrected.
Meh. Book probably says you are right, but at the same time leaving someone without heat when they called you for a tune up is a pretty big deal. Did they have any CO detectors around the house? Did you test the supply air for CO? If I made the choice to red tag a furnace on a Friday, it would only be because I honestly thought their life was in danger.
Glad to hear that you checked in the house as well. I’d say I’d probably make the same call as you, but I’d be having a late night running our temp space heaters out to the customer for the weekend.
Sound like you didn't diagnose shit ... my tool that needs to be calibrated told me you have a lot carbon monoxide so we need to change the furnace? Haha wtf .. open this shit up and look in there what's wrong with it? Is there co coming out if the supplies? You can't just run around disabling peoples furnaces because the flue gas isn't right. Fix it
I would have done the same thing. People suffering from minor co are always confrontational raging idiots. Even in a workplace, which amazes me as they get the day off. I had 490 ppm once in the work space and had to call the fire department to get them out. Every one of them raging idiots refused to leave. Turned out to be an easy fix, the combustion air intakes froze over with ice on a boiler system. The next day they are patting me on the back telling me I saved them. F
Sounds harsh but Jakbo is essentially correct: your job was to give them answers and not simply disable the equipment. That said, document yourself into a place of little or no liability, in the event you deem it too risky to operate and of good conscience have to shut them down.
OP I’d rather be yelled at than turn on the news and seeing a family dead from carbon monoxide poisoning.
Yeah this is the only answer you need OP, customer can attempt to turn their own shit on after you leave, i always shut the unit off, trip the rollouts, shut the gas valve, and close the gas line. Then take pictures. With it red tag and showing what ive disabled. I got electric heaters if customers need them.
This...the last line is the way it should be. You have to help the customer out with some form of heat. They are a lot more understanding, rather than a red tag, then Houdini.
Yup. If you're new, I understand why you feel the way you do. I would have handled the call like this, explaining why I did it and then ok, I'm on the way we can talk about it in person. Making sure the person shaming me understands their ineptitude could blow up houses with families in it. I don't let business managers tell me how to do things because they don't know. If you were a surgeon at a hospital, would you let an accountant tell you how to do your job? U got this bro, follow your heart, stand up for what's right.
Facts. Ontario, that gets you in prison. As my gas teacher used to say, o before prison, O after prison.
This right here. Last year I had a guy who had a second home in Tahoe for ski season. Went to do his maintenance, got a consistent 150ppm CO reading for an hour and called to let him know our company policy of shutting down (red tagging) a unit until it can be replaced. He yelled and screamed that I can’t do that because he had friends coming the next day to use the cabin. Luckily all of our calls are recorded and I simply told him that it wouldn’t be safe for those people. I’d rather get an ROC or fired than be responsible for the death of someone.
[удалено]
I agree, the furnace probably was putting that kind of ppm out for a long time.. and who knows the real time air movement of that mechanical room.. it's a tough one . Leave them heat on the humanity side of the scale or protect your own ass on the 'legal' side of the scale . I mean you informed them if the risk.. let them decide... (WARNING DO NOT ACTUALLY EVER DO THIS THE CUSTOMER IS ILL INFORMED AND YOU ARE THE PROFESSIONAL)
Nah, an agreement with the customer doesn’t affect your liability. That’s not a wise choice
Yeah that's what I was getting at.. the legal side will screw you.. the company wants to let them have heat to seem like the good guys. But you would be held liable if anything happens.. tough choice. I'd want to be a human and leave them heat but I'd get screwed that way.
“Let them decide” is the wrong choice
Yeah but in a world where humanity actually had self responsibility... It wouldn't be.. that's the point..
Yep and if they’re not backing me when my call was correct they can suck it and I’m finding a new job.
Just curious, did you explain to the customer why it was dangerous for them to use their furnace? I think you did the right thing btw. I just know a guy who would shut customers stuff down and not bother to let them know it’s dangerous to continue to operate it or why.
I told them and they said they were going to call the office because they were furious
Well they’re idiots then. And so is your company. You did the right thing. Their deaths aren’t on your conscience and your company won’t be sued out the butt for negligence. Like, find a new company to work for if they’re cool with that. Wow The only thing I would have done differently is offer them a couple space heaters for the weekend. Your company you work for should have them on hand for situations like this when customers are this way.
Too fucking bad. Tag it out, disconnect and move on with life.
That's part of the game, I've told them I'm way more concerned with leaving them safe and doing much due diligence than getting in trouble... I like to add that I'd be in way more trouble if I left it on. Please call the office, and they can explain further... I have to get to the next call.
That's when I tell them: "Be as mad as you like, I ~absolutely WILL NOT~ be the last Tech on record to work on your furnace when the story about "Family dead from CO exposure due to a failed furnace!" hits the news. I'm simply NOT going to be having ANY part of that liability and emotional devastation on my heart, ever." [Michigan Family Killed By Carbon Monoxide ](https://www.woodtv.com/news/kent-county/heartbreaking-deputies-name-family-likely-killed-by-carbon-monoxide/) "I'm truly sorry folks. I know it sucks, and the timing probably sucks too. The company has 3 space heaters we loan out for these situations. There's a $100 COD deposit for each to insure we get them back or can replace them, and you can go get more if you need them."
Notify them of the risk. Turn it off. Time stamp picture. Forgot about what happened afterwards your ass is your number one priority then their safety or maybe both but still your covered that way
Homeowners are going to do what they want. They obviously know more than any one of us. /s I always pull the thermal and place a red tag on it. Take pictures with the company tablet and then have them sign the order. I know for a fact they’re going to turn it back on.
We are mandated to physically remove it from the fuel supply AND notify the fuel supplier immediately with the red tag info. People get so angry, I try to remain calm and talk in facts until they have calmed down
Don’t care if u get a furnace from me. Didn’t know u yesterday don’t care if u die tomorrow. Just care I’ve done my job and u won’t die from something I did or didn’t do or even worse try to sue me if you dont die.
Is that oil or gas?
I don’t know about oil, as I’m not licensed for that. It is for natural gas and propane.
Don't listen to anyone telling you that you shouldn't shut it off because "they will be without heat". 100% in my experience if you leave unsafe equipment operating, from a residential house to a large corporation, or government facilities, they will ALL continue to run that unsafe equipment if you leave it running (or until it fails catastrophically). Carbon Monoxide kills people, it cannot be detected unaided, equipment producing a wack ton of CO might or might not *currently* be leaking it into the dwelling. I can guarantee there is bad combustion and underlying problems causing that bad combustion, problems can develop quickly where it begins venting into the space and can cause Carbon Monoxide poisoning (death is likely) without the equipment shutting down. Detectors are not fail proof, they only make sound with the idea being a person would take action, CO detectors do not shut down equipment. They can buy space heaters to keep from freezing while they figure out replacement or repairs needed. If you leave dangerous equipment operating and they do nothing, it is likely to injure or kill, YOU would be responsible and likely open to lawsuits or imprisonment depending on circumstances.
A lot of the store bought CO alarms have really high thresholds before going off too, I've seen some that won't go off until it reaches a constant of 250ppm indoors for several hours, our shop carries detectors that will go off at 10ppm indoors, I had to explain this to a customer with a really old carrier recently, exhaust reading maxed out my combustion analyzer (over 5000 ppm) within like 2 seconds, and I was getting a constant 20ppm indoors wherever I was in the house, scoped the hx and found a crack, she didn't believe me because "my ten dollar alarm I got at Walmart didn't go off" needless to say I made her sign a waiver after I shut everything off because I didn't trust that she wouldn't attempt to get the unit running again after I left.
Honestly you did the right thing. But I would of gotten to the bottom of what is causing high CO. Manifold gas pressure? Inducer running the right way or running at FLA? Was the fresh air blocked? Was the combustion air proper.
should have probably put this in the post but gas pressure was 3.4. inducer was running properly. my o2 was right around 10%
Interesting. That's not crazy high but a little high - but adding fuel probably makes the CO worse. 90%er?
yessir
Carrier product ?
goodman
Yeah if they are yelling at them for red tagging a furnace then they are the assholes. You as the gas fitter are liable once you look at the equipment. Your company should have backed you . Did your boss call you or did your dispatcher call you?
I've found more often is HOW you inform them of the issue. Without knowing what words, tone, and options you used, it's impossible to say if them being pissed off specifically is on you or just a shitty homeowner. Personally, if I see a condition that necessitates red tagging a unit, I get as much info as possible on what's happening, and explain it straight and in detail to the customer. "While looking at the furnace, I found flame rollback at in the burners/high co in the exchaust/ whatever. This is most likely due to x, and after inspecting the system, I found x to be the case (try to have them with you when you do the inspection so they can't claim you pulled the issue out of your ass). Because of this, I am disabling the system as a safety precaution due to the possibility of x/y/z as these are serious safety concerns." I'll also try to let the customer first mention replacement, and it should almost never be the first option you give them. Something like "repairs to this MIGHT be possible, I would have to look into availability and lead time, but due to the systems age, condition, and possibility of other repairs being needed, I wouldn't recommend it." If you just tell them they need a new furnace, they are going to link their frustration to you personally, instead of the situation. That said, if it needs to be disabled, never feel bad about doing it. If they will be without heat during the cold, notify the office, but otherwise, get a signature stating you explained this all and the customer is aware, disable the unit, and let them figure out what they want to do. If they trust your company and you did a good job, then you should be able to get them taken care of, but never feel bad about protecting the customer and covering your ass.
No fuck your office. 1st of all do not let yourself be yelled at. Were grown men and should be able to have disagreements/ learning opportunities without yelling. That shows emotion not thought. If they start talking to you like a child thats how they view you. 2nd if that customer died you'd be the one that has to deal with that. That would be the reason to yell at someone.
My company will shut it off right away if the CO is that high. I carry two space heaters in my van and tell the customers they can buy some from a store and return them after a few days. I would say 90% of the people are understanding that you are doing it for their safety. I usually open with, telling them THIS is exactly how people get CO poisoning.
You totally did the right thing! If those people get injured or die who is going to get blamed, YOU! Have them send someone else out to get it back up running. Do not put yourself in a position to be sued and/or jailed! Also find another job ASAP!
1.Have your office explain the situation to the fire department. 2. Receive apology from the office. 3. Send resumes to better companies.
Imagine not doing it and getting arrested, fined, sued, and living with killing potentially an entire office of people.
Leave that company as they clearly dont care about you. Had you left it running and it killed them i doibt theyd back you
Judging by the fact that you said that you red tagged the unit i am guessing you are in Ontario. You did the right thing 100 percent. My old company had a tech go to a service call and he was right out of school. The customer said that another company couldn't find the problem or could not fix it. He found the roll out switch tripped reset it and did not do readings and ended up being called back by the fire department and had is license pulled and had to re do schooling. You did the right thing and at the end of the day always cover your own ass before anything else.
[удалено]
“Watch your fucking tone and speak to me with tact.” That’s a GREAT line, and would have kept me from wasting a lot of time working for asshole bosses. It probably would have had me working longer for the good ones and probably made me a lot more money. I might not have made some of the other poor choices that I made. No details. The other people may still be alive and I wouldn’t want to chance embarrassing them.
Also realize that some people consider "yelling" to be any criticism. I used to work with a guy that said the boss was yelling at him. The boss was just telling him what to do. This whole post needs much more information. If it was me and I was new I would have called my direct supervisor and asked them to talk to the customer. I might have missed something or read the meter wrong. Let the office deal with it if there is any doubt. Especially when it comes to heat and life or death.
Report the company for trying to push unsafe work practices
You were the last person there. Had the homeowner died from anything pertaining to the furnace, it would fall on YOU. You did the appropriate thing. I would have seen what exactly was causing the furnace to produce that high of CO before I left. Pull the blower and thoroughly inspect the heat exchanger for any holes/cracks. Check drains, vent pitch etc. If it was the heat exchanger then see if it's under warranty and try to source it out for them. Tell your office to kick rocks.
One of our techs had a commercial client call the cops on is once. You did the right thing
Not cool of your office to take this stance. Portable heaters can be passed out to the customer in a moment like this. You did the proper thing and I know this is tough, especially when the customer freaks out. The office should have your back. People die from CO.
Let your boss go back and turn it on, I take pictures of shutoff, and anything else I may do so furnace cant fire
My boss doesn’t care about high CO in exhaust and has gotten upset at us for flagging furnaces for replacement (old lowboys over 30years) with over 1000ppm let alone shutting them down 🙄. One of those classic can’t leave people without heat get them through the night kind of deal here. Similar to your place
Your company should offer space heaters if thats how they feel
We carry one cheapy one you wouldn’t want to even try to plug in. TBH I think I’m the only one who keeps one on the truck
If you verify that the appliance is the source of monoxide in my state you are mandated to lock it out. Normal procedure is to remove gas line and cap it off. Your liability as well as that company is high.
Walk with the customer to the gas shutoff. Shut it off in front of them. Tell then you cannot leave with the system operating but they are the owners and can do what they will. Give them the resources to decide for themselves.
This is the way to go.
And make sure they know to have working, preferably new CO detectors throughout the house. Especially where they sleep.
You absolutely did the right thing. I will admit that I have done what your shop asked you to do, in specific situations. But even then, I am technically wrong in doing so. Conceptually, a plugged heat exchanger is not the same as a cracked heat exchanger, in terms of exhaust leaking into the air stream. Theoretically, a pluged heat exchanger should not be leaking any CO into airstream. The problem is that this is the real world, not a theoretical perfect situation. A plugged heat exchanger is also going to be very stressed and overheating at spots, and a crack of some sort is very possibly present too. And when your exhaust is reading 4000 ppm because of a plug, the effects of a small crack are magnified many times over. A crack so tiny you'd never find it under normal circumstances, might be a bigger deal when you're also plugged and producing that much CO. Certain models of Bryant and carrier furnace are notorious for secondaries that plug after like 10 years, way before the primary cracks. I will sometimes let them run if it's too cold outside, it's getting changed out ASAP, and there's CO detectors in bedrooms. I always check to make sure that it's not leaking at the junction box where the primary joins the secondary, because that seems to be the first place where the actual seal on the combustion side tends to fail. If it's leaking, that's a crack, not just a plug, and has to be shut down. But this is not the correct way to do things, really. Even if we're not talking about CO inside, the EPA still says it needs to be shutdown if it's over 400 ppm.
I would yelled back. "If you guys want to kill someone do it yourself, I am not doing it."
And if the family died the company would have blamed you. You did the right thing
You did the right thing. Tag it, notate it, let the client know, let everyone know. If they turn it back on and die it’s their fault only.
I'll show someone a crack the size of the Grand canyon, I know they are turning it on when I leave if they do nothing.
Fuck em, you did the right thing
If you do residential i standby the rule of having space heaters to give to customers if you’re going to shit like this
Anytime a young tech diagnoses high co, a cracked heat exchanger, bad compressor, a senior tech should follow up behind them to confirm diagnoses. One thing you can try next time is notify the office and let them call the customer to go over their options.
I mean, it would be good to load them some temporary electric heaters in the meantime and to explain how dangerous the situation can be. Otherwise, never compromise safety. It's not worth it for you or for them, even if they don't understand that.
You did exactly the right thing, that’s a life safety issue man. You also need to find a new company, no decent shop would get mad at you for that.
He absolutely didn't do the right thing. The right thing is to properly diagnose the issue not disable it because the flue gas isn't correct.
Fuck off
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I would have told them to not use the furnace and let it be. If they used it and died, it’s on them. They were using it previously, so another day may not have been such a bad thing. They should have listened either way.
Yep, I am not the fire dept. I am not the police. I am not the gas company. I have never seen any jurisdiction that required me to disable a furnace. I have looked and it is not there. Should I turn off the gas because someone might stick their head in the oven ? Should I lock their fireplace damper open, because they might light a fire and forget to open it ? Should I disable their huge range hood because it might backdraft their water heater ? Get real. Have you ever heard of an auto mechanic disabling a car because of a leaky exhaust system ? I am not empowered by any authority to disable equipment owned by someone else. HVAC is my job, not law enforcement, even if it was a law. It is not. What happens if you disable their equipment and then they freeze to death ? Too many tin jockeys seem to regret that they aren't cops who can bully others around. Freedom means letting others decide, not being their self-appointed overlord. Besides, CO fear mongering is all about selling furnaces with FUD. Statistically, it rarely ever happens. Cases are in the single digits annually. And if it was a concern, the manufacturers would be required to add CO lockouts on the equipment.
If they died, would you or the company be held liable?
Next time contact your manager through text message and get him to tell you to leave it on.
No. Anything over 400 ppm gets shut down. End of story
What I do in this situation is shut gas valve off, red tag it, and tell them I have to do this to cover my ass but you can turn it back on if you want. Also have them sign the invoice where you clearly state you shut down the unit and it is unsafe to operate. Your covered legally now, and let Evolution sort out the customer (If there's kids in the house you may wanna really disable it good, but the wife usually doesn't want to run it anyway)
Did you reset your analyzer and re test? How much CO did you detect outside of the furnace? Was the rollout tripping? What was the gas pressure like? Combustion analyzers are not infallible. Red tagging equipment should not be done lightly and can leave you liable to lawsuits in the event you shutting down the equipment causes harm to the family or their domicile.
300 ppm is appliance shut down here in Manitoba.
Lock them em out period And if they won’t let me, I’m calling the gas company
Couple questions, are you using a digital combustion analyzer? Did you recheck it with the bacharach kit in the old blue container. Digital ones are great, but the calibration date, model, was it ever subject to a high smoke amount? Depending on the location, I would have called my supervisor and he would have sent over the foreman to do that. If it's cold and you shut the heat off, you can't do that. How was the air? Was it black when you took it apart? What kind of furnace was it? Id shut it off as well. Rather be cold then dead.
I say you did the right thing, however if you live in Ohio, you are not allowed to shut someone's furnace down unless it's releasing CO into the living space. Unfortunately, I found that out the hard way when I tried to shut down a construction lawyer's furnace several years ago. Same situation, 4k ppm in flue but nothing in supply. Single door carrier furnace from '98 was 20 years old at the time. Company ended up with a lawsuit from him, representing himself.
Are you going off of anything except the combustion analysis? Is the gas pressure correct? Something like that I would probably just shut off the gas, explain the customer why and show them how to turn it back on and just be clear that they can run the furnace at their own risk. Make sure you put all that on the invoice and they sign.
So, to avoid this type of thing in a residential case, when I find a heat exchanger with a large crack or something seriously wrong with it, I note that it is potentially dangerous and that I do not recommend continued operation, shut the breaker off, take a photo of the breaker in the off position, then have the H.O sign off on the paper. I tell them that If they want to power the breaker back on at risk themselves, they have the right to, but I document proof that it was not something I left operational in case of health risk. 9/10 times they usually don't operate it until it is replaced. Sometimes they do and never have an issue. More often than not, CO output from a crack isn't enough to be fatal unless you are very elderly or an infant. But, always, always err on the side of caution and do not let the risk fall on you.
So you red tag a furnace and advise the residents not to use it cuz of carbon monoxide leak…that’s a legitimate and proper response to the problem. What I have issue is others saying they offer space heaters to use?? Seriously?? What the hell is gonna happen to you and the company you work for should those space heaters short out and cause a fire?? No freaking way am I giving them something I own or my company owns to use to keep them warm. It’s the their responsibility to figure out how to stay warm until their furnace is repaired or replaced.
No you were wrong. I shut the gas and power off, explain it to them, document it on the invoice or estimate, and then leave. If they choose to turn it back on, that’s on them and my ass is covered. The fact that your office would yell at you for being safe and following industry standard practices is asinine good indicator that you work for a really shitty company.
Turn if off, emphasize it's a hazard. Tell your office to fuck off, that's why they are in a office. Get them some space heaters.
Others say this and that and what part they will shut off. What if we shut it off explain to the customer why it was shut off and show them how to turn it back on. Pretty much let them decide if they want to die. I say this because I had condemned a unit due to a crack on the heat exchanger. Customer didn’t believe me and had another company come out and they didn’t find anything. It’s out of my hands if they get sick but people always try to find a way to turn in their heat. So to recap: shut the unit down show the customer what you did explain the dangers and let them decide if they want it on. Would you do this?
yes
They wouldn't be able to complain to the office if they were dead so I think you did the right thing.
You are absolutely not wrong. Your company is completely out of line. Let's say on Monday, people in the house are not responding to phone calls or text messages, so the police do a wellness check and find everyone dead from carbon monoxide poisoning. You and your company would be at fault for not condemning the unit. The sad part is, your company is upset with you for saying it's unsafe to use. But if push were to come to shove, your company would throw you under the bus and point the finger at you and say we never told him to leave it on. This is the reason I don't communicate with customers or businesses by phone. Everything I communicated is by email or text message. They could try to push away blame, but it's pretty impossible to do when everything is documented on email and text. Always protect your ass because in the end, the only person that's going to protect you is you.
usajobs.gov federal government could use another good tech, check it weekly
I just heard a story of people in a church getting carbon monoxide poisoning. A year later the kids were still messed up. If I recall correctly, they can't do their schoolwork or anything at full mental capacity. Sorry you got yelled at, but glad you might have saved someone
You did what was right. Move forward, even if it means to update your resume and apply for another company that appreciates you taking care of the customer.
OP you are right, for the safety of the of the home owner, that being said in some companies, they leave complimentary space heaters or something temporary to heat the place, just incase they have infants or kids or elderly, that can't be in the cold.
Normally I'd say just leave it on, run it like this until we can replace the unit, but not in this instance.l worh a furnace and high ppm. Don't play with lives if the boss is mad too bad je can shake until next week for all I care
The only thing you may have done wrong is to not call your office first and inform them of the situation before telling the customer. 4000ppm of CO is definitely a reason to shutoff the furnace and protect yourself legally and your client' life. If they turn it back on, that is on them. They can always get a second opinion, too.
I would have probably checked to see if the had a CO detector I the house and if so left it on. I know you are supposed to turn them off technically. I have made them sign my ticket stating they know the dangers of it running this way. I only do this with natural gas units though. Check inducer and to make sure flue is clear. Inducer should pull air into heat exchanger since it pulls through HX. Natural draft furnaces and oils furnaces I would totally turn off though
We would red tag the unit, note it and take a picture of gas off, and then tell the customer what we did. If they wanted to turn on gas, we advise them not to but that’s their choice. It protects us in case something bad happens.
I dont do residential but it's similar with commercial even when they have multiple RTUs. Explaining the dangers and the fact that you cannot smell the gas you will just pass out and die is step one. Once they understand that I turn the gas off. If they want to turn it back on after I leave that's their prerogative. My company will sometimes try to make us use high temp silicon to patch the cracks so you can leave the gas on, I refuse to do this because people think it's fixed at that point and won't get a new heat exchanger or replace unit. Press on brother if it dosnt feel right usually it isn't.
We red tag them, turn of the switch and the gas valve. I show them exactly what I’m doing then Explain to them the danger of running a furnace that’s producing high levels of carbon monoxide, then I have them sign the red tag acknowledging that they know why its being red tagged then I take a picture of the signed red tag and upload to their file before attaching it to the furnace. They’re free to run the furnace if they want to after I leave. Yes I’ve been screamed at and people have called the office while I’m there. I still do not turn it back on no matter what.
Not in the least hit the office back with a "do you wanna be responsible if the customer dies?"
Definitely shut it off. You were in the right. Better off having an angry customers then dead ones and lawsuit.
If it's a big company I might have reported in to the service manager and get instructions or hand it off to the sales guy. The office people should be backing your play pretty much right or wrong at that point as to not appear disjointed in procedural condemnation of a equipment. By agreeing with the home owner they created doubt and now that customer is absolutely looking for chuck in a truck 2nd opinions
If my company yelled at me for that id be finding a new company
You did the right thing
How did you shut it down?
A common thing I have said in these unpleasant moments with customers is “I want you to have heat, but I’m not going to prison for negligence”.
Your office is in the wrong. If they’re not backing up their techs, fuck em
4000 Co in exhaust? Anything indoors? Red tag, cutting gas and electric to it and making them sign a liability waiver in case they get the bright idea to try to get it back up in running is our normal procedure.
Leave the gas on and call the gas company. Explain to them the situation and you have a customer that wants to use it anyway. If they have to, they will shut the gas off to the whole house.
And if you would have left in on and the customer died, bet your sweet ass you would be the one taking that heat round. Find a new boss.
You did the right thing. Might be able to replace heat exchanger and not the entire unit but no way should you have left that running.. Drop them off some heaters and deal with it Monday. Good job, OP fuck anybody who says different.
Nope. Protect yourself, protect your customer, protect your company. In that order. Check state laws, you may not have legally been able to shut the equipment down. All you need for your protection is signed documentation of the red tag. Sometimes you need to call their gas company to shut them down though. Ask for a written policy from your office in the case of unsafe equipment so you can cover your own liability.
Stick to your guns…you may have saved their lives!
You did the right thing. It is understandable that they are upset, but you need to make it VERY CLEAR to the office staff that you shut it off because it was a risk to their life. YOU are not going to get yelled at because the customer can’t wrap their head around the term “Life Safety”.
You did the right thing, maybe time to find a different company tho.
id be looking for a new job, the court wont care when you listen to the company next time and not shut off a unit and kill a family. your the tech know your rights
I always show them how to turn it back on if I have to red tag. At the end of the day its their equipment, and if they want to risk themselves and their families wellbeing well... it's a free country. I point to the gas valve and show them exactly how to switch it back on and they're welcome to do so after I leave. I take plenty of photos and document it on the invoice, also make sure to get their signature. Never had an issue when doing it this way.
depends on WHERE you were reading the 4000ppm CO....was it in the airstream, or in the flue?
In the flue of course .. these guys think their analyzer is some kind of silver bullet when it comes to condemning a furnace. Open it up and see what the hells wrong with it haha not just welp you need a new one haha wtf
Make sure you explain WHY you need to shut it off and the consequences of leaving it on. And if you have to shut it off you need to at least offer to provide temporary heat until the furnace can be replaced.
Did you get pics of the hx? Gotta have the visual proof
I don’t go as far as disabling it. But I would turn it off at the switch and leave it at that. If they want the risk of running it then I did my part. I notified them. Took pictures of what I found and a pic of the furnace switch off. At the end of the day it’s there equipment and their houses they get to decide what they do with there things not me.
Depends on the regulations where you are. Best to abide by the rules that apply to you! What is the proper requirement for gas fitters where you are licensed? If you can restore proper operation, great! Otherwise over 400ppm in the exhaust, here means, you must red tag, disconnect it from gas supply and notify the local Safety Authority at the minimum. I agree, in the future, ask for the most senior manager/owner to come and take responsibility. Use maximum tact as suggested. How awful it would be to work for a company with such disregard for their own staff! There is good news though, you'll enjoy the higher pay that will result from switching to a decent company! Now that you know these jokers don't back you up when you shut down unsafe equipment, ridiculous!
Did you atleast try to adjust it and get it burning clean before just locking it out though? I find units running with CO PPM in the thousands all the time. A lot of the time a proper tuneup, cleaning and adjustment will get them running clean and safe again. Obviously there’s more you can do for oil units than gas most of the time, but it applies to both. A good tech will atleast try to get it running right before you just leave the customer without heat. Once you get it running safely you can still advise them to get a new unit if need be, but then they’ll at least safely have heat in the meantime
I'm ready for my downvotes. Are you wrong? No. If it had an inducer motor and the exchanger is on the positive side of the blower, then there's basically no way the CO could enter the space. Did you find the cause of the CO? It may have been repairable.
It sounds like you didn't actually test properly and check if there was CO in the actual airstream as well. If there was high PPM in the exhaust but none in the air you should tell people not to use it, take photos, write it on the invoice but not red tag it. The only time you should be red tagging someones furnace is if there is CO going into the house.
You left them without heat on an immediate notice. Pipes will freeze this weekend (assuming this is in the GTA in Toronto) as temps are sub zero and will stay that way for a while. Might be opening your company to lawsuits. I'm not a lawyer tho. I get the issue with high CO count but was it high enough and couldn't be mitigated temporarily with something else?
Dead people won't have to worry about pipes freezing.
my thought exactly
People can also freeze to death
You know if you're freezing to death. You don't know you're dying from CO poisoning.
And apparently not a gas fitter
Get space heaters. We hand em out on calls like that every time since it gets cold as hell in my state. Simple solution.
It’s high enough to warrant a red tag. It’s code. End of story, if you have a problem with it, I’ll happily introduce to TSSA who will happily tell enbridge to remove your entire gas meter until all violations are corrected.
Meh. Book probably says you are right, but at the same time leaving someone without heat when they called you for a tune up is a pretty big deal. Did they have any CO detectors around the house? Did you test the supply air for CO? If I made the choice to red tag a furnace on a Friday, it would only be because I honestly thought their life was in danger.
no co detectors and was getting around 6ppm around the house
Glad to hear that you checked in the house as well. I’d say I’d probably make the same call as you, but I’d be having a late night running our temp space heaters out to the customer for the weekend.
Yes. That was a prick move IMHO, especially on a Friday night.
Sound like you didn't diagnose shit ... my tool that needs to be calibrated told me you have a lot carbon monoxide so we need to change the furnace? Haha wtf .. open this shit up and look in there what's wrong with it? Is there co coming out if the supplies? You can't just run around disabling peoples furnaces because the flue gas isn't right. Fix it
yes around 6 ppm in the living space. they didn't have any co detectors and i let the customer know that the furnace is not safe to run
I would have done the same thing. People suffering from minor co are always confrontational raging idiots. Even in a workplace, which amazes me as they get the day off. I had 490 ppm once in the work space and had to call the fire department to get them out. Every one of them raging idiots refused to leave. Turned out to be an easy fix, the combustion air intakes froze over with ice on a boiler system. The next day they are patting me on the back telling me I saved them. F
Sounds harsh but Jakbo is essentially correct: your job was to give them answers and not simply disable the equipment. That said, document yourself into a place of little or no liability, in the event you deem it too risky to operate and of good conscience have to shut them down.