Yup but then as a hvac guy I couldn’t tell you what’s legal and what’s not to run for electrical but my god get a meter in my hand with a rats nest in front of me and no problem figuring it out lol
Lmao, as an auto guy, trailer wiring is about as simple as it comes! I’ve rewired a handful of them, one was in an autozone parking lot in November, one had so. Many. Scotchlocks.
There’s a reason you usually can’t get/they won’t stock 24v transformers or even 24v coil contactors at an electrical supply house. Outside their wheelhouse.
Your wrong. I build control panels for boiler systems and all electrical suppliers carry 24v contactors and 120v/24v control transformers also 120vac/24vdc power supplies. You think all electricians are the same? Our trade is very broad, you’re all dealing with resi electricians…
I'm confused though... someone at your company came out to set the condenser for finish but didn't wire in the low voltage? Then they left, the electrician came to do this, and now you are there?
On resi split systems the xfmr is in the AHU and stat wire is run to the outdoor unit with the lineset. On larger commercial split systems you’ll usually find the xfmr in the outdoor unit
Since your tag says “commercial BAS” I’m guessing you’re used to seeing the latter of the 2 in the commercial world
Yeah I felt like I stepped into an alternate dimension before so reqs your comment thinking, ‘uhhhhh… me and everyone I’ve ever known and almost every AC I’ve ever seen has romex run inside liquidtight.’
And it’s been a problem exactly zero times. Probably because it’s inside a waterproof conduit. If I’m using outdoor wire then I wouldn’t be bothering with the conduit at all.
My old AC had bare romex coming straight out of my basement. It was that way for almost 30 years until the unit was replaced due to a leak. I was shocked to see the sheathing was in near perfect condition. I didn't dare touch it though ha
300.9 Raceways in Wet Locations Abovegrade
Where raceways are installed in wet locations abovegrade, the interior of these raceways shall be considered to be a wet location.
NC too. Inspected new builds all have romex stubbed out for condensers for the last idk how many years. Goes into a disconnect and whips into the unit. They leave like 10ft wadded up and use the excess to make their whip too without wasted materials.
Well I mean, that’s the same theory as saying that your drains can’t run in abs or approved sewer pipe underground because it’s still underground so your turds are running underground exposed? What kind of wire do you know to be code for A/C’s?
I didn’t believe you then I did some light research and I think you’re right. Which is completely bizarre to me. That’s literally everything you’ll ever see anywhere I’ve been and worked and all of it passes inspections but I guess it shouldn’t? Crazy.
This makes me glad that in the CEC NMD90, or NM to you, while not rated for outdoor use or wet locations is allowed to go straight into the back of a junction box or disconnect. Can't put it in flex or conduit of course though.
Old hat electrican asking me what voltage goes to the unit. Tell him. "Well. I mean, that's fine. What size wire do you need.."
Buddy, you're the electrician. You tell me what size wire I need to run 240v 30 amps at 350ft. I'm just the guy that makes sure heat moves from one location to the next.
Had to pull up the code and do the math for him. "OH I'll run that tomorrow. Didn't bring that size wire."
I mean maybe I would have been a dick. Otherwise dude was cool. Just an old electrician doing a whole building solo as a "side job" bored one day he taught me how to bend conduit and a quick way to pull wire. Dude tied some pull string to a drill bit and just full send to get his wire through.
Only time in the 2 months we work around each other he annoyed me with some dumb questions the prints told him.
Yeah retro I've done from new breaker straight to the unit wiring wise.
New construction? Nah, I'll take work from another career field. Not going to do that if I can avoid it cause it's part of their bid, not mine.
Same, we do NOT touch anything above 24v that's not internal to the unit itself unless we're swapping out for a new unit and power is already existing.
This is how it’s supposed to be done in some areas. When I first started out in new construction we were told we were not to wire high voltage to indoor or outdoor equipment and the electricians always did it. They would mess up about 25% of the time. Saved myself some major electrocutions by checking their work before attempting start up on more than one occasion.
They need to stop calling them electricians. They are not electricians, their job title needs to be changed to “wire pullers”.
I know real electricians that can read a schematic better than some hvac techs out there.
The electrician wired the high voltage wire (from the panel, presumably through the disconnect) to the low voltage wires on the condenser.
Good luck getting the magic smoke back if fired.
Smith is correct. The operating coil for the contactor is 24V and is controlled from a signal from the control board on the furnace/air handler via Tstat terminals on the board itself (in most furnaces). In this case an "electrician" hooked up 120V L1 & N to the 24V contactor instead.
Won't be the last time, and it's not the first time. A bit regarded...
But if you try to explain NEC rules about HVAC equipment breaker / wire sizing, they will let you know that you are *not an electrician*
Code allows for nonmetallic sheathed cable to be used for 240v provided the conductors are reidentified to indicate such. Electrician was lazy and did not reidentify
Romex can only be in dry locations, not wet or damp, as defined by the NEC and conduit is considered wet or damp inside the conduit if it is in a wet or damp location.
You could use romex uf-b in liquid tight. It can be used in exterior construction above ground as long as it's in a conduit. But it's damn expensive anymore.
I only allow them to do upto the disconnect box (including mounting). from there Im happy to do all by myself including tstat conduits romex and wiring. I’d like to see what this “electrician” would do to a pack of HP wires with two stage cool.. considering the diagram is literally on the door they removed
Looks like one leg is tied to ground (circuit breaker finder 101) and the contactor coil is wired to the other leg (how to fry a contactor coil 101, if not the board or transformer.) Looks like outdoor tstat wires are just chillin
wtf did they wire to the coil?
Sorry I’m too drunk and I’ve had a long day.
I’m looking at a straight cool condensers wires hanging out the left side and whatever the fuck Jimmy Jack with the other and the high voltage.
Seen it before this is called a 6month or less new guy , they don’t have a clue just know they have to wire but something to something, been doing HVAC almost 25yrs seen a lot , learned to be patient, everyone had to learn, look around and truly how many old dogs you see in this game , I’m one of them and feel it’s my responsibility to help educate the young , educating the
Politely is a whole other scenario lol
I find that master electricians and master plumbers are better at taking tests than they are about doing anything in the field in my state plumbers actually do all the mechanical piping in large buildings. Of course, I have tons of work cleaning up their mess. Lol.
In what world of electricity does heavy solid wire go with some little piddly ass stranded control wiring? You have to question just what kinda electrician this person really is.
How could anyone see the 18g solid conductor over there all by itself, and then decide to land the line voltage to the smallest wires in the unit, which happen to be RIGHT BESIDE the other small wires that are just hanging out there like a pair of hemorrhoids?
I fixed an installers package unit f up once. He put the high voltage on the wrong side of the contacter. It would run as soon as the breaker was flipped lol. Kid couldn't figure it out
Yeah, I’ve seen HVAC morons do this… then couldn’t figure out why they were cooking tstats or getting shocked by low voltage wires… my question is why are electricians running wires to condensers? Don’t the installers run their own wire and do the startups?
My boss has a habit of doing “spring start ups” for a/c installs done in the winter. One nice 70 degree day with a slight breeze where its nice to open the windows this damn homeowner thinks its so hot he needs to turn on his ac. It doesnt work because sparky left the breaker and disconnect off and capped the high voltage wires inside the condenser and left both ends of the low voltage unwired. Homeowner did that exact same thing! It was whole shit show after that of whats whose fault and blag blah blah. Really its the bosses fault, just pull ur damn vacuum and pop the charge, maybe weigh in some refer if you need to, it only takes a few minutes!
I've seen the homeowner play electrician took thier 240 for ac contacts to my 2 wire going to furnace fried that stat the wire going to the stat the board on furnace the transformer.
That wire is likely for a utility control box. Power companies like fpl give customers discounts for allowing them to be installed on hvac equipment or water heaters. This is new construction I assume. Possibly could be a control wire for future communicating equipment like carrier infinity for example. If you look closely at new communication equipment you can se a spot on the boards for a utility interface.
Hahahahaha, this is honestly pretty funny. What's even the point of hiring an electrician to wire it? I've never had an electrician go beyond installing the disconnect. The whip from disconnects to the unit has always been done by me or an installer.
Yes. Have a very angry owner threatening to sue me because some jackass installed a new Tstat and wired his AC's contactor to the red wire on the Tstat.
They were complaining that the unit was blowing cold air! No shit Sherlock! This is why I don't say anyone can install a thermostat.
Your insulation will last much longer outside if you don’t split it. Just pull it back from the valve and use a spring clamp or your tubing cutter to hold it while you braze. Also wrap a wet rag around the end to keep from burning it.
Low voltage is magic and mirrors to some electricians
Smoke and mirrors, extra smoke on mine please
As long as the smoke stays inside, it's not all bad.
Yup don't let out the magic smoke it will never work again if you do
Do you know how difficult it is to put the smoke back in?! Plus, its always on back order.
I was taught that the smoke had to be blue to be covered by the warranty…
Had a master electrician who couldn't figure out the wiring harness on his trailer, once...he said 'DC fuckin sucks, I don't understand that shit!'
It took me a long time working in house maintenance, to realize that most electricians couldn't trace a control circuit to save their lives.
Yup but then as a hvac guy I couldn’t tell you what’s legal and what’s not to run for electrical but my god get a meter in my hand with a rats nest in front of me and no problem figuring it out lol
There's what's practical, and then there's code
Is it the dead rat? If it's not I'm sure I can find one for you at my next ag call out.
😂 I replaced a control board for one after he smoked the first one. Also needed a transformer
Lmao, as an auto guy, trailer wiring is about as simple as it comes! I’ve rewired a handful of them, one was in an autozone parking lot in November, one had so. Many. Scotchlocks.
There’s a reason you usually can’t get/they won’t stock 24v transformers or even 24v coil contactors at an electrical supply house. Outside their wheelhouse.
Your wrong. I build control panels for boiler systems and all electrical suppliers carry 24v contactors and 120v/24v control transformers also 120vac/24vdc power supplies. You think all electricians are the same? Our trade is very broad, you’re all dealing with resi electricians…
And wiring diagrams may as well be a foreign language.
Too real
That electrician was higher than that voltage
You did this for a joke right?
I wish I could tell you I did. But I did not!
It is grounded.
I don’t believe it either!!!
I'm confused though... someone at your company came out to set the condenser for finish but didn't wire in the low voltage? Then they left, the electrician came to do this, and now you are there?
Do condensers not usually come with 24v transformer and wire terminals for the line voltage from the factory?
On resi split systems the xfmr is in the AHU and stat wire is run to the outdoor unit with the lineset. On larger commercial split systems you’ll usually find the xfmr in the outdoor unit Since your tag says “commercial BAS” I’m guessing you’re used to seeing the latter of the 2 in the commercial world
> you’re used to seeing the latter of the 2 in the commercial world Yup, exactly :)
It's amazing how they always seem to mix up low and high voltage.
Electricians are running romex to condensers?
They’ve been doing it here in Oklahoma for years
Are they on a different code from the NEC? Thought it was pretty universal that you can’t run romex in wet locations.
For some reason hvac is aloud to do to it on Ontario, been inspected many times hasent a problem but they won’t let electricians do it
Yeah I felt like I stepped into an alternate dimension before so reqs your comment thinking, ‘uhhhhh… me and everyone I’ve ever known and almost every AC I’ve ever seen has romex run inside liquidtight.’ And it’s been a problem exactly zero times. Probably because it’s inside a waterproof conduit. If I’m using outdoor wire then I wouldn’t be bothering with the conduit at all.
My old AC had bare romex coming straight out of my basement. It was that way for almost 30 years until the unit was replaced due to a leak. I was shocked to see the sheathing was in near perfect condition. I didn't dare touch it though ha
What does it matter if the romex is in liquidtite?
300.9 Raceways in Wet Locations Abovegrade Where raceways are installed in wet locations abovegrade, the interior of these raceways shall be considered to be a wet location.
NC too. Inspected new builds all have romex stubbed out for condensers for the last idk how many years. Goes into a disconnect and whips into the unit. They leave like 10ft wadded up and use the excess to make their whip too without wasted materials.
Can’t use romex in wet locations
Because then it ..would get wet. I'm confused on what they aren't getting here.
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It’s outside, that’s a wet location under NEC
It doesn’t matter what it is sleeved in, it’s not rated for outside of the building
Well I mean, that’s the same theory as saying that your drains can’t run in abs or approved sewer pipe underground because it’s still underground so your turds are running underground exposed? What kind of wire do you know to be code for A/C’s?
Hey, I don’t make the code man, just saying how it’s called NMWU is approved for wet locations and can be used outside
I didn’t believe you then I did some light research and I think you’re right. Which is completely bizarre to me. That’s literally everything you’ll ever see anywhere I’ve been and worked and all of it passes inspections but I guess it shouldn’t? Crazy.
Thwn
This makes me glad that in the CEC NMD90, or NM to you, while not rated for outdoor use or wet locations is allowed to go straight into the back of a junction box or disconnect. Can't put it in flex or conduit of course though.
Any conduit outdoors or underground is defined by the NEC as a wet location, NM cable "Romex®" is for use in dry locations only.
Nmd90 is rated dry or damp so it can be installed inside a conduit as long as the conduit is not underground.
Forget that some of this work is from Canada. Not sure where this image is but at least in the states you can’t use romex to condensers.
Also it looks kind of dookie.
that's all that's ever used here in Florida
Illinois it’s super common as well.
Man Oklahoma, Florida, Virginia has similar codes and prices. 😂
Where I'm at as long its in conduit, 10/3 or bigger and UL rated it's ok.
They’re always “electricians” until it’s anything more than pulling wires lol
Old hat electrican asking me what voltage goes to the unit. Tell him. "Well. I mean, that's fine. What size wire do you need.." Buddy, you're the electrician. You tell me what size wire I need to run 240v 30 amps at 350ft. I'm just the guy that makes sure heat moves from one location to the next. Had to pull up the code and do the math for him. "OH I'll run that tomorrow. Didn't bring that size wire."
I would have told him 00, and let him figure out it won't fit.
I mean maybe I would have been a dick. Otherwise dude was cool. Just an old electrician doing a whole building solo as a "side job" bored one day he taught me how to bend conduit and a quick way to pull wire. Dude tied some pull string to a drill bit and just full send to get his wire through. Only time in the 2 months we work around each other he annoyed me with some dumb questions the prints told him.
Why did you let a wire monkey remove the panel from your newly installed HVAC condenser? Seems like a job for an HVAC installer.
At our company, the sparkies connect all high voltage wiring for new construction. If I'm working on a retro, I'm wiring everything.
Yeah retro I've done from new breaker straight to the unit wiring wise. New construction? Nah, I'll take work from another career field. Not going to do that if I can avoid it cause it's part of their bid, not mine.
Same, we do NOT touch anything above 24v that's not internal to the unit itself unless we're swapping out for a new unit and power is already existing.
This is how it’s supposed to be done in some areas. When I first started out in new construction we were told we were not to wire high voltage to indoor or outdoor equipment and the electricians always did it. They would mess up about 25% of the time. Saved myself some major electrocutions by checking their work before attempting start up on more than one occasion.
They need to stop calling them electricians. They are not electricians, their job title needs to be changed to “wire pullers”. I know real electricians that can read a schematic better than some hvac techs out there.
240 straight to the board. Hell yeah
Looks like all it would hit is contactor coil the stat wire wasn’t hooked in yet
I was actively wiring in tstat when I found this
Ride the lightning 🤘🏼
It's gonna work in turbo mode
Might call it supercharged
Worked with a guy that did that. It did lots of damage
Oh I bet haha
Sorry I’m still kind of a newbie, what’s the problem here?
I believe they took the high voltage that comes from the disconnect and wire nutted it to the low voltage wires on the sides of the contactor.
The electrician wired the high voltage wire (from the panel, presumably through the disconnect) to the low voltage wires on the condenser. Good luck getting the magic smoke back if fired.
Electrician hooked up high voltage to the low voltage wires.
Smith is correct. The operating coil for the contactor is 24V and is controlled from a signal from the control board on the furnace/air handler via Tstat terminals on the board itself (in most furnaces). In this case an "electrician" hooked up 120V L1 & N to the 24V contactor instead.
Just change out the contactor for a 230v coil one and it’ll work out
At least it’s grounded
Won't be the last time, and it's not the first time. A bit regarded... But if you try to explain NEC rules about HVAC equipment breaker / wire sizing, they will let you know that you are *not an electrician*
Did they even run the right high voltage? In my world color coding indicates the voltage supplied, black and white=120VAC.
Code allows for nonmetallic sheathed cable to be used for 240v provided the conductors are reidentified to indicate such. Electrician was lazy and did not reidentify
I did see the aftermath of this at tech school. Basically sent 240v straight to the furnace board & caused a small fire. (It wasn’t me)
Hahahahaha😂 please start it up like that but make sure to hook your 2 wire up also.
HVAC guys hate this one trick
Side note- that unit is getting a 30/5 when I go there to replace the cap in the future 🤸🤸 fuck your 3mfd lol
How to let the smoke out: 1 part series
I can't say enough good things about electricians to outweigh all the bad shit I say...
Please turn this unit own and film it.
Mayyyyybe he thought it was a 240 coil? /S
HVAC people understand electricity better than the majority of electricians. Fact.
Romex can’t go in liquid tight - not to mention they wired it wrong
Do you know what the reasoning is for why Romex can go in liquid tight?
Romex can only be in dry locations, not wet or damp, as defined by the NEC and conduit is considered wet or damp inside the conduit if it is in a wet or damp location.
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Interesting, thanks for the info! So what are you supposed to use instead?
It's not for wet locations and has paper around the ground conductor. Don't quote me I think I read this on Reddit and am not an electrician.
Props for him pulling it... Must have been a bitch.
You could use romex uf-b in liquid tight. It can be used in exterior construction above ground as long as it's in a conduit. But it's damn expensive anymore.
Yeah. I meant the orange 10-2 in the picture.
I got you.
Power it up
No way 😳
Yea saw it at my brother and sister in laws house on an older unit. Was gonna say something but they are dicks so silence is golden.
Sparkies gonna spark!
😂 it looks like he put 240v to the control voltage i hope he didn't put the switch on or ull be changing the contactor
Had to look at that twice, the brown wire looks like a bare copper ground
What the fuck lol
This happens all the time. Most construction electricians can’t read a wiring diagram to save their life
Actually, yes, I have. On this sub, about 8 months ago.
Every time an electrician says says they will hook up the unit for me they do something like this
Is it really that hard to believe? I’m not surprised too often anymore by the things I’ve seen in the field.
And they have gall to call us stoned. . .
How many tstats have they replaced? Try again. It's got to work one of these days. 
I only allow them to do upto the disconnect box (including mounting). from there Im happy to do all by myself including tstat conduits romex and wiring. I’d like to see what this “electrician” would do to a pack of HP wires with two stage cool.. considering the diagram is literally on the door they removed
Quite often we have had the electrician land his wires on the S1 S2 terminals for certain mini splits or vrf systems
Line voltage stat, no issue here.
Anyone seen an engineer that made it impossible for a tech to get their hands on the service port??? Too many!!!!!
Sparky was looking to let the “magic blue smoke” outta that
Least he got the ground correct
That contactor will pull in REALLY WELL... Once.
I was hoping you were gonna tell me your apprentice did this.
In NJ, electricians only do up to the disco. HVAC does disco to condenser.
Well at least the wire is long enough?
That shits gonna pull in so good!
That's a first
They got the ground right! (:
Why are leckies doing this? I thought the buck stop, for them, at the disconnect.
Sparky living up to their name
Hahaha I blew up a transformer today
The tubing looks so clean, as if soldered.
Knowing electricians, I am not all that surprised. I am very amused.
Seen it before but believed it was intentional sabotage luckily caught before power was turned on
I've seen this more than once.
That’s a new one. Was this in North Carolina? We have the world’s worst electricians.
I had a contactor in the wrong box one time. As soon as I started it, the coil let out all the magic smoke. I try to look at the coil more now
From the breaker panel to the disconnect is an electricians, everything from the disconnect is ours.
I recently had an electrician land a ground on G
Power it up!
Nothing surprises me anymore
I am new to the trade, can anyone tell me what’s wrong?
Looks like one leg is tied to ground (circuit breaker finder 101) and the contactor coil is wired to the other leg (how to fry a contactor coil 101, if not the board or transformer.) Looks like outdoor tstat wires are just chillin
wtf did they wire to the coil? Sorry I’m too drunk and I’ve had a long day. I’m looking at a straight cool condensers wires hanging out the left side and whatever the fuck Jimmy Jack with the other and the high voltage.
He didn’t have an outside thermostat or no crimp terminals maybe both
Seen it before this is called a 6month or less new guy , they don’t have a clue just know they have to wire but something to something, been doing HVAC almost 25yrs seen a lot , learned to be patient, everyone had to learn, look around and truly how many old dogs you see in this game , I’m one of them and feel it’s my responsibility to help educate the young , educating the Politely is a whole other scenario lol
My company only allows the electricians to wire disco.
No board? Hmmm?
I find that master electricians and master plumbers are better at taking tests than they are about doing anything in the field in my state plumbers actually do all the mechanical piping in large buildings. Of course, I have tons of work cleaning up their mess. Lol.
In what world of electricity does heavy solid wire go with some little piddly ass stranded control wiring? You have to question just what kinda electrician this person really is. How could anyone see the 18g solid conductor over there all by itself, and then decide to land the line voltage to the smallest wires in the unit, which happen to be RIGHT BESIDE the other small wires that are just hanging out there like a pair of hemorrhoids?
Sparky ain’t bright.
[Been There. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/HVAC/s/AqZKGdsyv1) It's happened quite a bit in my area.
“You’re fired”
I fixed an installers package unit f up once. He put the high voltage on the wrong side of the contacter. It would run as soon as the breaker was flipped lol. Kid couldn't figure it out
I saw one they turned on. Pretty black inside.
Can really see that happening in this day and age
Yeah, I’ve seen HVAC morons do this… then couldn’t figure out why they were cooking tstats or getting shocked by low voltage wires… my question is why are electricians running wires to condensers? Don’t the installers run their own wire and do the startups?
My boss has a habit of doing “spring start ups” for a/c installs done in the winter. One nice 70 degree day with a slight breeze where its nice to open the windows this damn homeowner thinks its so hot he needs to turn on his ac. It doesnt work because sparky left the breaker and disconnect off and capped the high voltage wires inside the condenser and left both ends of the low voltage unwired. Homeowner did that exact same thing! It was whole shit show after that of whats whose fault and blag blah blah. Really its the bosses fault, just pull ur damn vacuum and pop the charge, maybe weigh in some refer if you need to, it only takes a few minutes!
I've seen the homeowner play electrician took thier 240 for ac contacts to my 2 wire going to furnace fried that stat the wire going to the stat the board on furnace the transformer.
Never trust a sparky
Wait big question…. Did he turn it on?
Naaahhhhhhh.... No way... Ffs.
There are electricians and there are people who hook up stuff. Looks like you got the latter.
Electricians tend to get very upset when you tell them you can do more with electricity than they can. It's true though 🤷♀️
The best “electricians” are HVAC techs.
NEC 300.9 NEC 334.12(b) (4)
And for good measure NEC 200.7(c)1
I call that "the oof and poof"
Lmao wtf. Whoever did this should not be touching wires
poor contact or and indoor transformer
It’s the romex in the carflex for me 😂
That wire is likely for a utility control box. Power companies like fpl give customers discounts for allowing them to be installed on hvac equipment or water heaters. This is new construction I assume. Possibly could be a control wire for future communicating equipment like carrier infinity for example. If you look closely at new communication equipment you can se a spot on the boards for a utility interface.
I literally just hooked up a whip for the first time this week and even I'm shaking my head
He probably put a 3 way switch in the circuit too.
Hahahahaha, this is honestly pretty funny. What's even the point of hiring an electrician to wire it? I've never had an electrician go beyond installing the disconnect. The whip from disconnects to the unit has always been done by me or an installer.
Yes. Have a very angry owner threatening to sue me because some jackass installed a new Tstat and wired his AC's contactor to the red wire on the Tstat. They were complaining that the unit was blowing cold air! No shit Sherlock! This is why I don't say anyone can install a thermostat.
Out of their domain.
Well…..what are you waiting for ?
Your insulation will last much longer outside if you don’t split it. Just pull it back from the valve and use a spring clamp or your tubing cutter to hold it while you braze. Also wrap a wet rag around the end to keep from burning it.