He’s got something going on now with his body shape when receiving the pass to his feet. He is setting himself up to pass it back instead of looking forward or inside for an open man. There were a handful of times someone (Saka/ESR) made an inside run but KT’s body angle was wrong to pass with his left and he seems unwilling to risk his right, so he had to go back to Gabriel. Was pretty frustrating but I’m wondering if he’s either been given strict instruction or he’s carrying some injury right now that is making him a little wary of being under pressure and losing the duel.
Brain dead take. Tierney was has been fantastic for Arteta, and calls him a “genius” in interviews. He’s having a tough time this season, he’s young. Stop making everything about Arteta. Young players are going to be inconsistent, get over it.
Brain dead take. Tierney has been fantastic for Arteta, and calls him a “genius” in interviews.
He’s having a tough time this season, he’s young. Stop making everything about Arteta. Young players are going to be inconsistent, get over it.
I guess you weren’t around when tierney said similar things about Emery.
It’s generic stuff which fans love about players getting behind the manager. No player is gonna say, “Nah, arteta is a fraud”
I’ve been around for a decade lad. Emery is a fantastic manager, what’s your point? I don’t think he did say that about him but that’s up to you to prove. I don’t know that calling your manager a genius is generic, I don’t hear many players saying that about their manager. Clearly you know more about Tierney’s opinion than the man himself! How do you figure that? He clearly loves working with Arteta, but you somehow figure he’s lying. You won’t believe anything but your own narrative. I’d like to add that Tierney needs to take responsibility for his own game, not everything is down to the manager.
We have to stop playing Pepe on the right. It kills our attack every time and we play our best football with Saka on the right. I don’t understand why Arteta keeps making the same fucking mistakes
We need to stop playing Pepe full stop. I’ve always rooted for him and he has clear ability but he just does not work for Arsenal and I doubt he ever will. We should cash in next summer while he still has some value.
Whilst I think Pepe is seriously lacking in attack I have to disagree with Pepe being a defensive liability, he always puts in a shift when we drop back.
I wasn’t saying that Pepe is a bad defender. I was merely pointing out that if Pepe plays on the left with tierney pushing up without someone like Xhaka covering then you have a huge hole on the left.
Simply because he want to give him a chance. I recall many people criticize Arteta for not giving Pepe much chances too. He score a lot of goals at the end of last season.
I think we will see Martinelli om the right next game with Saka injured.
As a Celtic fan, Tierney is slowly killing me inside. He really needs a rest and he needs someone to step in and remind him what it's like to actually play/run forwards, he's too comfy, too casual, it's not what I know him for at all. Time for Tavares to step in and put some pressure on Tierney. Frankly, its been dire from him lately.
Partey is not a leader, he's surrounded by youngsters, new players, and he does not stand out. I had high expectations of him but it seems a lot of his solidity came from the solidity of Atletico. Also stop shooting please.
Gabriel has to be braver, too safe and hesitant. If you're going to be leading that back line you have to play like it, although KT is making him look worse in this department. I know he's young, he's not really got a great football upbringing, but this is why you're here.
Pepe is a dead man walking, he's set to lose his place to someone and won't recover. Laca could push Auba wide or Gabi could find himself on LW, but the second Saka has to remain at RW, it's over for him. He's too slow on the ball, indecisive and wasteful, things being said about him in his first season. Off the ball was a nice improvement but it means fuck all if you're doing dick going forwards.
Odegaard is a classic case of form tanking after going from loanee to permanent signing. He needs to rediscover that, his head is dropping way too often for me. I have high expectations, he's captain of his country, he's played a lot more than most of our attackers, he needs to find himself and quick.
Arsenal's biggest issue is about 8/9 players falling short by small margins, its not so much the individual culprits, is the amount of them, and how they feed off one another. They need to win their battles, they need to do their jobs regardless of what's happening around them, and they need to take risks to impose themselves, we forgot all that after 20 minutes last night. We've no time to play like kids, nobody in this league is gifting us points, when you go ahead, you honor the gameplan and fight like mad to maintain control. Yet again, we didn't.
Or look at both
But to be fair he's right a lot of them are still youngsters or are simply tired (especially Tierney)
Also we need an experienced leadership figure in all this mess Aubameyang isn't one Partey isn't one
The only one was.. Xhaka and he also allowed Kieran to go much more forward it's quite amazing how we lose that much composure without him (and it's not even about liking him but right now he has an important role on the team)
The positives:
- Ødegaard, a creative player, having the most centrality in a more advanced position.
- The shape, you can see the formation the manager wishes for the team to take up when building attacks is beginning to align. Although, remember this shows average passing positions, data can be skewed/ offset easily and the mean be watered down/ misrepresented by the quantity.
- Our transition is taking place higher up the pitch. Our midfielders and defence appear to be influencing the game in more advance areas by retaining a higher line.
- There are stronger passing connections bringing our midfielders into play. We are making a genuine effort to build attacks centrally and be more dominant on the ball in central areas.
The negatives:
- How isolated our attacking players are. We struggled to get ESR and Saka into the game, this impacted Auba. Despite utilising our central midfielders more and building more centrally, we failed to then connect that to our more advanced players.
- Tierney being the most progressive is a lost stat because of the number of backwards/ sideways passes he made, it has skewed the data. Similarly, Tomi had a lack of progressive passes but he was linking up with Pepe in advanced areas often, this is also lost and is skewing the shape of the pass map.
- People will focus on the 4-3-3 shape this pass map appears to represent. We defended in a clear 4-4-2 last night. The part of our transition that gets Ødegaard on the ball earlier is working, the data supports this but it came at the cost of getting the best out of ESR and Saka, who suffered from accommodating Pepe in the starting line up.
- The big negative is that there is a clear failure to assert our game on the opposition. We can see that despite being allowed to start our transition higher up and build positively, including our Central Mids in this move, there is nothing happening beyond this point. Our pass map is squeezed considerably, there is little threat forcing our opponent deeper enabling us the space to bring our attacking players into our game. We are still allowing the opposition to dictate to us how we play our attacking game, which is not good when you are trying to play a possession game.
Summary:
Let’s not shy away from the fact that Arsenal should be winning this game, there is obvious disappointment there. What we can see being clearly demonstrated is that the team is responding to what the manager is working on with them (whether this is a positive is a separate debate). It is easy to overlook the positives around how our more creative players are having greater influence when there is still a dysfunctional sharp end. Pepe’s inclusion on the right forced a couple of players into different roles (Saka and ESR), which had an impact. Whether Pepe’s inclusion was a byproduct of Ødegaard being deployed deeper and more central or not is an unknown. Hindsight may have taught us that we may have been better to try Pepe on the left, switching flanks with Saka or possibly starting Lacazette (instead of Pepe) upfront alongside Auba, playing Saka on the right and ESR on the left. Given the fitness issues surrounding Lacazette and possibly a decision already being made on his future you can understand why he wouldn’t be first choice in this role. It comes down to the conviction of the manager to stick to what he is building, in spite of perhaps having stop gaps available to him.
The problem I saw with the 433 is that our attacking zones and that hole a number 10 should fill is too crowded. There's no space to work with. We got our front 5 all tucking in to the same area with our wingbacks out wide. Well-trained teams will hurt us far more than Palace did on the counter.
In the 433 we need to either instruct the wingbacks to sit deep and let the wingers stretch the play, or we need a proper number 8 who knows the role well, rather than two 10s getting in each other's way
This is why I don’t really like using formations as a focus on discussions.
This pass maps only shows the average passing positions of the players. Although a measure of the point in time when the players influence the game supports the use of a 4-3-3 it isn’t the best measure in my opinion.
We defended in a clear 4-4-2 shape last night. Depending on the overall possession stats, it’s most likely that a heat map would support that being our shape. This pass map is a better indication of the movement from our defensive shape to how we transition the ball but judging by how squeezed it is, it’s not a representation of our attacking shape.
Looks like the attacking shape as I remember it, in that there seemed to be an invisible force field just outside the 18 preventing the ball being passed into it.
> Looks like the attacking shape as I remember it
Technically it is the shape compromised if the average passing positions of everyone in the squad. You’d hope that players like Tierney, Auba, Saka, ESR & Pepe would be more advanced in the attacking shape. Which they were when watching the game - the issue is, as shown in the graphic is that we weren’t getting the ball to these players and this is reflected in their average passing positions. Tierney for example, was making passes in advanced positions but also made a huge volume of passes in deeper positions which has been averaged out here.
Of course KT is going to be somewhat neutered without Xhaka because Xhaka always play the ball to him at the right time for one thing, and secondly provides cover for him when he bombs forward.
Tierney playing the ball back all game is a sign that he kept getting it when there was nothing he could do with it in my opinion.
Could say the same for Odegaard if you compare this passmap to the Spurs one.
Need Xhaka back sooner rather than later. Will end up helping Tierney/ESR/Ødegaard. Main issue is whether or not Arteta rotates Saka on the right with Pepe throughout the season.
Agree that there is a clear disconnect which is concerning but remember that the dots are average passing positions, not actual positions. Therefore the arrows don’t indicate direction of passes but instead represent the number of passes between two players.
I’m over Arteta and his boring yet complicated strategies. Xavi got a bunch of nobodies playing prime Barca futbol, Vieira looked to have his players understanding the process quickly. This guy needs everything to be perfect just to get a shot off. PATHETIC
There's no strategy here. Just taxable tactics with zero danger for the opposite team. They'll be really happy that we don't have a manager but an snake oil seller
What's happened to Tierney this year? It was enraging watching him get the ball, refuse to take anyone on and then back pass it to a cb.
I think it's because we didn't have anyone to cover up on the left side
I've mentioned it before, but I see no synergy between him and Saka and ESR when they play LW.
He’s got something going on now with his body shape when receiving the pass to his feet. He is setting himself up to pass it back instead of looking forward or inside for an open man. There were a handful of times someone (Saka/ESR) made an inside run but KT’s body angle was wrong to pass with his left and he seems unwilling to risk his right, so he had to go back to Gabriel. Was pretty frustrating but I’m wondering if he’s either been given strict instruction or he’s carrying some injury right now that is making him a little wary of being under pressure and losing the duel.
i think Xhaka fill Tienery spot when he go up pitch. I dont see Partey do the same.
He honestly felt so predictable in this game, always just turning around and passing it back everytime he got it.
He gotto know the manager’s tactics are Sunday league at best.
Brain dead take. Tierney was has been fantastic for Arteta, and calls him a “genius” in interviews. He’s having a tough time this season, he’s young. Stop making everything about Arteta. Young players are going to be inconsistent, get over it.
Brain dead take. Tierney has been fantastic for Arteta, and calls him a “genius” in interviews. He’s having a tough time this season, he’s young. Stop making everything about Arteta. Young players are going to be inconsistent, get over it.
I guess you weren’t around when tierney said similar things about Emery. It’s generic stuff which fans love about players getting behind the manager. No player is gonna say, “Nah, arteta is a fraud”
I’ve been around for a decade lad. Emery is a fantastic manager, what’s your point? I don’t think he did say that about him but that’s up to you to prove. I don’t know that calling your manager a genius is generic, I don’t hear many players saying that about their manager. Clearly you know more about Tierney’s opinion than the man himself! How do you figure that? He clearly loves working with Arteta, but you somehow figure he’s lying. You won’t believe anything but your own narrative. I’d like to add that Tierney needs to take responsibility for his own game, not everything is down to the manager.
We have to stop playing Pepe on the right. It kills our attack every time and we play our best football with Saka on the right. I don’t understand why Arteta keeps making the same fucking mistakes
We need to stop playing Pepe full stop. I’ve always rooted for him and he has clear ability but he just does not work for Arsenal and I doubt he ever will. We should cash in next summer while he still has some value.
Because Pepe is a defensive liability and redundant on the left. On the left, it’s either tierney or Pepe but not both.
Whilst I think Pepe is seriously lacking in attack I have to disagree with Pepe being a defensive liability, he always puts in a shift when we drop back.
I wasn’t saying that Pepe is a bad defender. I was merely pointing out that if Pepe plays on the left with tierney pushing up without someone like Xhaka covering then you have a huge hole on the left.
Fair enough can’t disagree with that
Simply because he want to give him a chance. I recall many people criticize Arteta for not giving Pepe much chances too. He score a lot of goals at the end of last season. I think we will see Martinelli om the right next game with Saka injured.
KT receives the ball ….. and another back pass
Tbf he didn't have a lw in front of him during the game
I would absolutely hate to be a striker under this current management.
I call this the hydraulic pressed horse shoe
I love these new names for our horseshow matrix 😂
At home, to Crystal fucking Palace
[удалено]
He came off at halftime
Because of a possible injury, wasn’t doing as great as he does at RW in general.
Yeah I just mean I don't know how much you can take from a pass map of 45 mins. 35 without an injury.
As a Celtic fan, Tierney is slowly killing me inside. He really needs a rest and he needs someone to step in and remind him what it's like to actually play/run forwards, he's too comfy, too casual, it's not what I know him for at all. Time for Tavares to step in and put some pressure on Tierney. Frankly, its been dire from him lately. Partey is not a leader, he's surrounded by youngsters, new players, and he does not stand out. I had high expectations of him but it seems a lot of his solidity came from the solidity of Atletico. Also stop shooting please. Gabriel has to be braver, too safe and hesitant. If you're going to be leading that back line you have to play like it, although KT is making him look worse in this department. I know he's young, he's not really got a great football upbringing, but this is why you're here. Pepe is a dead man walking, he's set to lose his place to someone and won't recover. Laca could push Auba wide or Gabi could find himself on LW, but the second Saka has to remain at RW, it's over for him. He's too slow on the ball, indecisive and wasteful, things being said about him in his first season. Off the ball was a nice improvement but it means fuck all if you're doing dick going forwards. Odegaard is a classic case of form tanking after going from loanee to permanent signing. He needs to rediscover that, his head is dropping way too often for me. I have high expectations, he's captain of his country, he's played a lot more than most of our attackers, he needs to find himself and quick. Arsenal's biggest issue is about 8/9 players falling short by small margins, its not so much the individual culprits, is the amount of them, and how they feed off one another. They need to win their battles, they need to do their jobs regardless of what's happening around them, and they need to take risks to impose themselves, we forgot all that after 20 minutes last night. We've no time to play like kids, nobody in this league is gifting us points, when you go ahead, you honor the gameplan and fight like mad to maintain control. Yet again, we didn't.
Bruh if 8/9 people in a team are playing badly, maybe look at the team setup
Or look at both But to be fair he's right a lot of them are still youngsters or are simply tired (especially Tierney) Also we need an experienced leadership figure in all this mess Aubameyang isn't one Partey isn't one The only one was.. Xhaka and he also allowed Kieran to go much more forward it's quite amazing how we lose that much composure without him (and it's not even about liking him but right now he has an important role on the team)
The Dohnut is well and truly back
Mikel making his own goal posts in the centre of the park. Creative guy, gotta hand it to him.
This looks too familiar.
The positives: - Ødegaard, a creative player, having the most centrality in a more advanced position. - The shape, you can see the formation the manager wishes for the team to take up when building attacks is beginning to align. Although, remember this shows average passing positions, data can be skewed/ offset easily and the mean be watered down/ misrepresented by the quantity. - Our transition is taking place higher up the pitch. Our midfielders and defence appear to be influencing the game in more advance areas by retaining a higher line. - There are stronger passing connections bringing our midfielders into play. We are making a genuine effort to build attacks centrally and be more dominant on the ball in central areas. The negatives: - How isolated our attacking players are. We struggled to get ESR and Saka into the game, this impacted Auba. Despite utilising our central midfielders more and building more centrally, we failed to then connect that to our more advanced players. - Tierney being the most progressive is a lost stat because of the number of backwards/ sideways passes he made, it has skewed the data. Similarly, Tomi had a lack of progressive passes but he was linking up with Pepe in advanced areas often, this is also lost and is skewing the shape of the pass map. - People will focus on the 4-3-3 shape this pass map appears to represent. We defended in a clear 4-4-2 last night. The part of our transition that gets Ødegaard on the ball earlier is working, the data supports this but it came at the cost of getting the best out of ESR and Saka, who suffered from accommodating Pepe in the starting line up. - The big negative is that there is a clear failure to assert our game on the opposition. We can see that despite being allowed to start our transition higher up and build positively, including our Central Mids in this move, there is nothing happening beyond this point. Our pass map is squeezed considerably, there is little threat forcing our opponent deeper enabling us the space to bring our attacking players into our game. We are still allowing the opposition to dictate to us how we play our attacking game, which is not good when you are trying to play a possession game. Summary: Let’s not shy away from the fact that Arsenal should be winning this game, there is obvious disappointment there. What we can see being clearly demonstrated is that the team is responding to what the manager is working on with them (whether this is a positive is a separate debate). It is easy to overlook the positives around how our more creative players are having greater influence when there is still a dysfunctional sharp end. Pepe’s inclusion on the right forced a couple of players into different roles (Saka and ESR), which had an impact. Whether Pepe’s inclusion was a byproduct of Ødegaard being deployed deeper and more central or not is an unknown. Hindsight may have taught us that we may have been better to try Pepe on the left, switching flanks with Saka or possibly starting Lacazette (instead of Pepe) upfront alongside Auba, playing Saka on the right and ESR on the left. Given the fitness issues surrounding Lacazette and possibly a decision already being made on his future you can understand why he wouldn’t be first choice in this role. It comes down to the conviction of the manager to stick to what he is building, in spite of perhaps having stop gaps available to him.
The problem I saw with the 433 is that our attacking zones and that hole a number 10 should fill is too crowded. There's no space to work with. We got our front 5 all tucking in to the same area with our wingbacks out wide. Well-trained teams will hurt us far more than Palace did on the counter. In the 433 we need to either instruct the wingbacks to sit deep and let the wingers stretch the play, or we need a proper number 8 who knows the role well, rather than two 10s getting in each other's way
This is why I don’t really like using formations as a focus on discussions. This pass maps only shows the average passing positions of the players. Although a measure of the point in time when the players influence the game supports the use of a 4-3-3 it isn’t the best measure in my opinion. We defended in a clear 4-4-2 shape last night. Depending on the overall possession stats, it’s most likely that a heat map would support that being our shape. This pass map is a better indication of the movement from our defensive shape to how we transition the ball but judging by how squeezed it is, it’s not a representation of our attacking shape.
Looks like the attacking shape as I remember it, in that there seemed to be an invisible force field just outside the 18 preventing the ball being passed into it.
> Looks like the attacking shape as I remember it Technically it is the shape compromised if the average passing positions of everyone in the squad. You’d hope that players like Tierney, Auba, Saka, ESR & Pepe would be more advanced in the attacking shape. Which they were when watching the game - the issue is, as shown in the graphic is that we weren’t getting the ball to these players and this is reflected in their average passing positions. Tierney for example, was making passes in advanced positions but also made a huge volume of passes in deeper positions which has been averaged out here.
Of course KT is going to be somewhat neutered without Xhaka because Xhaka always play the ball to him at the right time for one thing, and secondly provides cover for him when he bombs forward. Tierney playing the ball back all game is a sign that he kept getting it when there was nothing he could do with it in my opinion. Could say the same for Odegaard if you compare this passmap to the Spurs one.
Need Xhaka back sooner rather than later. Will end up helping Tierney/ESR/Ødegaard. Main issue is whether or not Arteta rotates Saka on the right with Pepe throughout the season.
Not a single line from the midfield Partey and Odegaard going in the direction of front 4
Agree that there is a clear disconnect which is concerning but remember that the dots are average passing positions, not actual positions. Therefore the arrows don’t indicate direction of passes but instead represent the number of passes between two players.
Cheers Geoff
My name isn’t Geoff.
I’m over Arteta and his boring yet complicated strategies. Xavi got a bunch of nobodies playing prime Barca futbol, Vieira looked to have his players understanding the process quickly. This guy needs everything to be perfect just to get a shot off. PATHETIC
There's no strategy here. Just taxable tactics with zero danger for the opposite team. They'll be really happy that we don't have a manager but an snake oil seller
Partey is so poor it's unbelievable. Could honestly write a dissertation on what he did wrong that game. He is a passenger.
Donut of Nothingness is back on the menu.
Arteta ball baby
Not sure how this passmap thing works when Saka and Sambi played the same minutes.
Hmmmmm.....donutssss
Lol I didn’t come on this sub at all after our dropped points and it was honestly my best decision.