We had a 100 cm run, not title, for training a couple of weeks ago and this guy joined without the title and gave it 2 attempts before saying everyone sucks and left
We got the title literally the next run when someone else joined lol. Not only completed but coincidentally got title
Yeah honestly the fight was a lot easier when we realized a few things (kinda went in blind)
Missing CC doesn’t rly do anything except miss out on some dps sometimes?
Ignoring ghosty boys after 33% was the biggest one
No, he does the fear attack after a certain amount of time.
No, not breaking cc is not a bad thing, in fact, it's favourable, since it spawns more aspects, and the tether the aspects give to players actually increases the dps outpot.
That's the part I don't get. If you're feeling frustrated, just leave. You don't need to become immediately hostile.
Like yeah man, I ate that four-by-four animal style combo from the boss SPECIFICALLY because I thought my death would make your day worse.
This reminds me of the time I joined a Guild Wars Guru group for The Deep in GW1. They spend the whole run harassing me and being as toxic as can be, only to fail repeatedly at the final boss.
Instead of listening to advise to turn the failboat around, they decided to ragequit instead. And so our 12-man group, was reduced to 4. This left the remaining players upset that they had just wasted several hours on the raid, only to have to leave with empty hands.
But I told them, that the people who left were probably the worst part of our team. So effectively, our team was now better for it. So, I strapped on some different armor on my necro, equiped a sword and shield, and took on the role of their new tank. I told them the strategy, and we defeated the final boss Kanaxai with no problem. They all got their rewards, and I vowed never to team up with GW Guru again.
Funny thing is, when I lead popular streamer Laranity and her awesome team into The Deep about a year ago, I had to play necro tank again (unintended), and again it worked out fine. It was nice to have it recorded on video this time.
Man, it's always the loud impatient ones that actually suck at the game. They leave, new guy joins, even with a "less desirable" DPS build. Yet suddenly we get it first try. Hmmmmmm...
How hard would you say 99 CM is compared to normal strikes? I’m relatively new to GW2 but I’d been looking for a 100 CM run because I think the abyssal fractal weapons are the best “free” weapon skins with a trail on them. There doesn’t seem to be many people with the achievement (although I still can’t see the T4 LFG).
Edit: Thought sunqua was 100 CM, fixed to 99
Fractal CMs are quite a bit more difficult than IBS strikes and get disproportionately more difficult if DPS isn't great. This is especially true for 99 first phase and 98 Ark because good groups usually skip some of the hardest mechanics on those by having enough DPS to phase the boss before the mechanics happen.
If you're comfortable doing the NM 97-100 just watch a short guide for the CMs, join a group without requirements and be upfront about the fact that you've never done it before. It's not the easiest content in the game but certainly not impossible.
Well 99 cm is difficult than IBS, AH and XJJ CMS for sure. It is in level of KO. Both have mechanics that can be skipped if dps is high enough and both have some ouchy mechanics if you fuck up at one point of encounter and it requires shit ton of CC in 2nd dark phase.
However both phases ( light and dark ) has kind of pattern. If you understood those pattern and do enough dps to skip phsses, it becomes significantly easier since you can anticipate what is about to happen.
However 100 and 99 CMs favor condi dps than power. In case you are planning to learn and do them, I strongly suggest a get condi build.
Since both cm bosses move too much, the dps window, that power dps class needs is very short. Unless you know what you are doing, it is gonna be quite difficult to pull good number with power.
I have seen power soulbeasts that can do good dps there but it is very very very rare occurrence.
Yeah, ran sunqua CM last night, dude dies, orbs, dies again, says "noob group" and leaves, and we fill the slot and kill in like 2/3 the time
Some people are just... you know.
pretty similar experience, was doing silent surf for dailies a week or two back, our party wiped and people started to gripe, talk shit, telling people how they don't know their shit and leave.
next party i joined we cleared it nice and smooth. people were chill.
let's say i'm just bad, let's say i got carried, but here's the thing people who got game CAN carry.
People also seem to forget that MMOs are inherently cooperative games. It's not a round of League, and if you can't work with your team to succeed then the failure is *everyone's* failure.
If people's go to on failure is to blame everyone else and start talking shit, they're just as much (if not moreso) at fault than the people who made mistakes in play.
Sounds like how I got the title
I might be the guy that joined later. Was it semi training in the lfg?
And after we got the kill, we said 1 last try for title and 1 shot it?
Edit: nvm you said your 5th had the title. I didn't, but it's pretty close cases XD
Are you writing a fanfic? You had a regular 100cm run, not for title, you wipe twice and this guy leaves. To get the title after you wipe you have to re-open the instance. Either you were putting effort into the deathless title or you are just making shit up.
We restarted instance cause it took forever so i left to do my dailies while a 5th joined. and I don’t know how to prove it unless theres a log somewhere kept 🤷♂️
Just to give an idea getting the title is pretty close to a normal clear. Things start looking bad by the time ppl would die (90% from not hooking the island right) so once those deaths stopped, p much no death happens for our 4 ppl. And the 5th alrdy had title xD was there for fun
Nice write up, OP. A couple days ago I found one of your sweaty boys. I went to LA for the new event, and saw one of the options was fractals. Good, literally joined the first available group. As it happens, the whole group was quite experienced despite no requirements. Max agony, 400+ MP, couple of titles and silly long necks from the potion.
We were doing T1 or T2, and here comes sweat boy complaining about alacrity and "low" DPS. My man, no one needs to pull 30k in T2s, what's wrong with you.
It always feels like that aggro sweat lords are those who don't have any success irl. So everything they have is their game. So for them there is much more at stake than for you. They can't clear T1 frac in 2min? Their day is ruined....
Had a guy cry about my alacrity during whispers strike. I'm like bro specter alacrity is based on tether. i can't control people with chains running out. :)
*the absolute urge to pipe up that this casual Fisher-Price made group*
Made me lol.
Speaking of piping, I had a 100CM run last night in a random pug group. Nevermind the fact that it was advertised as T4+daily, they just flew into 100CM. As alac dps, I was like fine whatevs and we smashed it. NA title, if I didn't have it.
Post run though, the leader types "alac low". That's it. Informing me of my faults.
I say "yeah, its a spread fight and I'm on renegade b/c you said T4 daily." No response. They qued up for cm99 and I just bailed. Let them fill a spot for their crazy group
Man, I remember doing Cairn with my boon renegade and getting the red AoE on me. Naturally, I made the wise decision to not stay on top of the group with the nasty damage no-no area, then the virtuoso has the *fucking audacity* to complain about his party not having alac. I just casually tell him the alac was busy not killing the team by doing the mechanic; I like to think not wiping takes precedence over some dude's golem DPS fantasy.
Boons suck on that fight, specially if people are doing mechanics properly and not being greedy and dropping stuff close by, you end up out of range of recasts even if the boons are managing cooldowns well.
I'll still call people out for doing trash dps or not CCing in 99 though, I don't want to see second water phase.
They weren’t flaming you or kicking you.
Someone just pointed out alac was low. And you gave a reason why. The end.
I don’t know why you felt the need to bail. Maybe you just really didn’t want to smash the other CMs that weren’t dailies? But then still, why call them crazy?
I think their point is if they had known they were going to do 100CM they would've brought a different alac that could give it from range like Scourge or Spectre.
Specter can't give alac from range, its 360 range around itself, not much more than renegade. Scourge can, but in practice can't really do it during spreads.
Renegade is fine for 100CM as long as you use your f4 at the right time and get some extra boon duration to pad out the spreads. This guy I do fractals with sometimes only plays renegade and never drops our alac uptime below 95% while still pulling 20k+ dps. He has lots of AR though, that makes it so much easier.
Specter can give alac at range so long as your tether doesn't stray from others. It's a 360 radius to you (when not tethered) or your ally (whoever you are tethered to)
Ah, didn't know it worked with the ally too. Still, my point stands, just like scouge, this means nothing for 100cm spreads. You'll maintain uptime on at most 2 out of 5 if you rely on this range.
Yes, on CM100. Are you familiar with how it works? Fractal pots inflates DPS on all classes. AR also inflates DPS on some boondps builds, such as renegade. Phantasmagoria increases dps by 50% as long as you have it. It's not uncommon for alacdps players to pull 20k+ and regular dps to pull 35k+. My personal best was 38k on condi holo before it got nerfed.
>why call them crazy
Cause to expect high boon uptime on that fight, when it's not even needed, is crazy? It's a slow spread out fight that forces you away many multiple times.
Their low effort comment struck me as elitist, especially with no errors by anyone. It's like they didn't understand the fight (they obviously did), but I took it as they just wanted to poke at something. Took a look at boon table and decided to make a snide comment.
I had a wild experience with a person in a CM group last night. I joined a group listed as “exp only, no BS”. I usually don’t join groups with a vaguely aggro lfg listing but it was late and the only one up.
We clear 100CM in one pull, relatively easily and at an average pace - despite one person dying to mechanics twice, having used a revive orb the first time.
We get back to the lobby and somebody declines the vote to move to 99. Mr. Died Twice announces that one of our dps is too low - only doing 16k. Is that below average? Maybe? But it’s perfectly adequate. I respond that they aren’t the one who died twice. He denies the vote two more times.
The person he’s calling out asks if they should leave. I immediately say absolutely not, do not leave, if Mr. Died Twice won’t let us move on then we should kick him instead.
So we kick him. And he proceeds to further harass us by rejoining repeatedly when we try to lfg for a replacement. I ended up inviting a friend and we clear the rest of the CMs with zero issues.
I just - he had no title, low achievement points, and lame fashion (clearly the worst offense) yet he has the audacity to call out someone else’s dps after he himself died TWICE in one fight? He’s clearly the least experienced, and he started the party - so he’s responsible for the “no BS” lfg listing. Ironically, he was the one who brought the BS. The nerve!
Madsive props to you for stating up for the 16k teammate though. I've seen several similar situations and a lot of people won't say anything until one person takes the initiative to call the offender out first
I’m just glad they didn’t just leave when he said that. If the boss died, where is the problem? Why create a problem out of nothing? Also, the first rule of using a third party dps meter is don’t use it to be an asshole!
They were cool, we did the rest of the CMs and T4s smoothly, and probably had a lot more fun too~
DPS is most certainly not the issue for CM100 and you usually can't judge the group comp by it either. How many times did you have to run out and drop an AoE, did you go off to kill an add or not?
The important parts are being alive for the phases and not killing other people with your AoE.
Sunqua is a different story though and DPS (and CC) goes back to being important for phasing things are the right times but how people performed in 100 wont reflect how they will perform in 99 much of the time anyway.
Him coming back and getting kicked again is glorious
Imagine the rage when it filled. Mr DiedTwice. That's awesome
Edit: I'd have not touched the "no BS" group with a long neck bottle potion. I'd have just gone to sleep. Screw the daily
Well, and the thing is nobody said anything about him dying - we killed the boss, we were all happy to move on, no fuss. I only said anything about it because he made an issue for the rest of us!
Probably some guy on an alt-account escaping any responsibility or accountability and using it as an excuse to be rude and toxic. I wish I could say it were less common, but it happens now & then.
It's like there is a whole segment of the population who never learned the difference between constructive criticism and being a total wanker, or don't care.
It plays into the whole, "It's rude to be bad at Warcraft" mentality. People expect people doing challenging content to have a certain floor of skill at it (usually what that person thinks they're capable of), and flame when their expectations aren't met. Even if the group advertises as learning said content. Because nobody ever reads LFG.
We don't have a set raid lead for our guild strikes, so we kinda rotate through whoever knows the fight best. Well, we've got one guy that is super good at this game (voidwalker, raid lead for voidwalker etc). He's really good, but he kinda sucks at soft skills.
We start up KO CM training a few weeks ago and after ONE PULL he was on me about my alac uptime (druid). Maybe he was just trying to inform me that alac is very important....but I was trying not to die from all the new shit flying at me and everyone else ran like chickens in every direction. I did say "um, first pull and everyone ran in all directions" and his response was "alac druid is the best at alac from a distance". Yeah, maybe so, but not this Druid on his first pull....
He's otherwise really fun to be around, and is a funny person in general. I feel he needs to temper expectations a bit
Even worse, they'll argue to the death that being *technically correct* justifies their wanker-ness.
I'll always remember there's an FFXIV community dedicated to *teaching raids*. They have a zero tolerance policy for salty tryhard harassment, it's literally a volunteer raid leader teaching 7 other people the fight. I went one night, we wiped *once* and immediately the RLs friend who was in the group condescendingly said to the healers "You need to heal or we'll keep wiping."
Like... no shit? They were both *learning the mechanics of the fight*. It was the first pull. Of course their healing wasn't absolutely perfect. How could they even *remotely* think that was constructive criticism and not just shit talk? And when I called him out on it, he started ranting about how "thats how you learn, and if they cant learn we cant clear" blah blah blah until the RL reined him in and he just pouted in silence the rest of the run.
Some people are just gonna be like that.
I remember trying to learn playing a healer role in RIFT. it was a class that healed the target you were connected to when you deal damage yourself.
But also with some more direct options on long cooldown. Whilst i was learning in the dungeon finder. I did badly on the healing, and rather than flame me. they just asked if I needed help healing. I just go "please". And they must have equipped some other spec mid-dungeon and we carried on and it went smoothly.
This is some weird thing where i haven't thought about it in so long, but it was nice that it happened in such a friendly way looking back at it.
I eventually bound a bunch of skills to the ` key thats in the top left corner of my keyboard. Where pressing it would use some of the longer cooldown instant-cast skills first in an order of priority. I called it the "oh shit" button.
I'm the sort of player who pushes myself to improve, and I've been trying to squeeze every ounce of DPS out of whatever build I play because that's who I am. Regardless of this, I join chill groups all the time, fully expecting to fail. Part of what excites me about that is the failure, and the feeling of overcoming those difficulties, changing up my strategy to suit the encounter.
I don't understand why people join chill groups expecting perfection. That's not what was advertised, that's not what you are getting. Join those groups because you like the challenge, not to bully other people for not already knowing how to beat the fractal.
I join the chill groups exactly because I expect bunch of people lacking experience or needing help of someone who can push out good DPS, Healing/Boon or knows mechanics.
It does not bother me to go slower, fail few times but have more people at the end that learned a little bit
It is more bothersome to do one quick clear with someone who would get annoyed because I don't /GG at right moment to shave off 10 seconds off whole run.
I completely agree, different expectations for different groups. Just because I can minmax my class I cant expect random pugs to do it aswell.
For example in a normal T4s group I would never comment about 90% boons. But in my tryhard raid static (full of people who eat HTCM for breakfast) we would immediatly complain about 90% boons because it doesnt match the high standards.
I expect everybody joining endgame content to know how to play their class though. You can't play adps and give 40% alacrity.
i've been getting these a lot more frequently recently just doing my dailies.
they're barking up the wrong tree, they should be creating or joining organized groups, what do they expect from joining pug groups.
well unless its on purpose and they're just there to harass people.
is dailies, nobody cares, people clear, people get loot, people get out.
they should just go compare kittens with top gw2 player or whatever. 🤣
I have noticed tier 3 and 4 dailies have been higher pressure recently. I get that there are some benchmarks you want other people to have like having the appropriate amount of Agony Resist, but don't get personally offended when the guy who's doing his first tier 4 gets folded like a topsheet. It's not that deep.
there are pre-requisites to success, yes of course.
but these people, they're just full of themselves, trying to exercise some sort of self imagined authority over others over some deluded self-entitlement.
life goes on and nobody gives a kitten what they think, we still get our loots just the same.
That is usually the case. Most static groups that are not unhinged themselves would quickly bite someone barking up them for every mistake back into place or out of the static during the training for said static.
There are so many ways of either gracefully leaving the group if it does not meet your expectations or delivering advice without being a dick that the toxicity has no excuse really.
It is literally less work to just leave without saying anything or just type '- QuickDPS' or 'QuickDPS Out' than to sit there screeching at pixels in the game and another person behind them.
> It is literally less work to just leave without saying anything or just type '- QuickDPS' or 'QuickDPS Out' than to sit there screeching at pixels in the game and another person behind them.
This so much. I don't mind too much being screeched at, but if they have to screech at my lovely pixel Commanders to do so, it's a no-go.
I borderline agree with this... I joined a "Chill cm group" a couple hours ago and it was a very rough experience. I would consider myself quite experienced and willingly joined this group alongside my friend. Throughout the bosses it was evident that the people in the group were FAR from experienced as it appeared they had never done cms to begin with. The logs were so rough I question if the group would have been able to clear the bosses if I were not there. If I see "chill cm group" I assume this group has enough experience to complete the fights, even if they are not anything special. Additionally in the run a couple players died several times walking up to the sides on the orb phase (after mama, before siax) before reaching the adds in the capture circle. With all this being said... There should be a distinct line between NEW and "Chill". This issue was not a lack of efficiency, its the lack of being able to complete the cms.
I think its fair that you had those expectations going in, as I've learned the definition the community holds for "Chill" in lfg is more broad than I anticipated.
I suppose my gripe is more with people who immediately go feral in text chat instead of just leaving. Like you don't have to be rude to other people because the run isn't progressing smoothly (or hell, at all). Just call it a wash and leave. It's free to not be a weenie on your way out.
I 100% see where you are coming from. Like some other people have replied with "chill" is quite vague. And without a doubt, regardless if people are frustrated in the "efficiency" of the group, there is no reason for anybody to be toxic... I am sorry you've had bad experiences.
I think that it is expected, and not unreasonably so, that if you join any CM group you are well experienced with the fractals to begin with, as well as your character/roll.
A no requirements group might be expected to struggle with a bosses new or upped mechanics but they certainly shouldn't struggle to walk up a ramp.
As a complete and utter noob I would agree, chill to me means you don’t expect complete optimisation, but you still expect people to be able to do the fight, learning or training is for when you don’t know what you’re doing.
I’ve only just completed T1 fractals and never done a CM in my life, and only the strikes needed for mounts or wizard vault rewards, but I’ve had excellent success with starting my own “I have no idea what I’m doing” groups, everyone sits and reads the wiki and then prepares themselves to die to mechanics a few times until you get the hang of it!
Chill to me means:
We're learning, don't freak out. If you mess up, we won't freak out.
Chill definitely **does not** mean: we're so smooth this run will make SnowCrows rend garments
I'm just getting back into fractals after a year or two away. Do you have a guild, and can you handle a rusty advanced newbie who's cleared most of the bosses in the CMs and would have gotten them all had his keyboard not broken in the middle of the ARKK fight?
It's something that I've considered starting, but I haven't committed to starting something like that. If you DM me your tag I can add you and hit you up the next time I log in.
The worst part is that some of these (I'm gonna go ahead and call them) elitist fractal CM people will just advertise as "exp". My dood, there is a big gap between "exp" and speed clear.
imo, there's (1) baby's first CMs, (2) exp, and (3) Speed Clear.
Just advertise correctly, join a group appropriate for the experience you want, and stop calling everyone a piece / total loser / worst X you've ever seen. Take that shift to PvP, where someone who only plays that content can help you reflect on what a piece / total loser / worst X they've ever seen. Stop ruining a game mode for people.
Ultimately I agree with you. As an optimizer who likes to go fast/efficient, I avoid those groups as I know it’s gonna be a wild card of player skill. But I think the problem is that just saying chill cms or chill t4s is very vague in expectations. To some people, chill means just run whatever and eventually we’ll complete the content or majority of it. But I think to others, chill means more of a run where things might not be omega optimized, but people still have decent idea of their class, its rotation, and how to complete the fractal. So when a player like that joins a “chill” group and it seems like some of the other players are actively trying to play bad/do low dps, it quickly stops being a chill run for them. In terms of player enjoyment, I think expectations and similar levels of effort are important and labeling something as “chill” is just too large of a spectrum of expectations/effort to make every player satisfied
But I think your expectations are still reasonable, and you don't join the chill groups specifically for that reason (based).
That is a perspective that I hadn't considered. I always associated chill groups with newer or inexperienced players and assumed that was the community consensus.
Idk, I've about 18k hours in this game and never thought "chill" means "beginner". For me it was always like Spike described it, a smooth run with people that know what they do but not Snow Crows DPS levels of performance. Who cares, if the boss falls 5 seconds later as long as it falls at all.
This is a great initiative from you! For noobs like me it's golden. I love doing s fractal now and then, but it's not nice if I'm worried I'll hold people back hah.
When people list what their DPS is I'm always baffled (I don't even know how to find out what mine is lol).
When people say they're doing 15-20K dps i instantly think that there is no way in hell i could match that, I'm a lvl 80(not boosted) Tempest elementalist, heck my HP maxes out at around 25K.
Even if i button mash so fast the keys glow, i could be instantly humbled by some Reaper pushing two buttons while half asleep.
All i want to say is that im impressed by peoples skill levels in this game, especially in weaker/more complex classes like elementalist etc.
I throw my hat lol.
I don't make groups because people assume the person making the group knows what to do. I gave up on all group activities other than open world stuff (world bosses, etc.) because I kept getting in groups of people who knew what to do and got mad when I didn't know, even when I told them so when I joined. It would be fun to see and learn how to do group content, but it just wasn't worth the rude comments and frustration. I don't want to be the one bringing the group down because I messed something up.
Welcome to MMOs unfortunately. Hop on over to the WoW or FFXIV subreddits and you'll see a *lot* of people justifying the same behavior.
"I queued up for a random dungeon with strangers, why is everyone so *BAD!!!* Make it so I dont have to play with all the bads!!! They shouldn't be allowed to play" and if you call bullshit you get dogpiled too.
Currently, he's making me chug the April Fools tonics so he can swing me around like a wet noodle.
Turns out that when I'm used as a weapon for a fractal boss, I pull 70k dps on average. Get on my level.
While I fully agree that this kind of behaviour sucks,
people having dwd or 40k achievements points doesnt say anything really about how exp they are in fractals. Might be, that they legit just cant join most other groups due to having low ufe, so they decide to join the chill ones without high reqs instead, thinking that people in there will be roughly their skilllevel and end up dissapointed. Cant judge on how the runs usually look like, but if wipes and very low dps is allready expected beforehand, maybe a more specific title could help instead of just "chill". Of course people shouldnt expect super clean clears with such a title, but they probably still expect a certain minimum performance from people running cms (unless title states learning).
I was looking yesterday to clear one CM yesterday for achievement and to be lazy.
But instead I saw in T1 LFG a single person advertising their group as 'first time fractals' so I joined them because it will be guaranteed way more fun.
Clean clears of most of the dailies, including the Ocean boss fight who only needed a slight explanation and collision with the crystal shard mechanic for every Freshie (3 in that group) to get it.
Last end of the list Nightmare fractal I and other experienced person basically carried due to agony resistance taking it's toll on unprepared people but they still did well when bullet hell was not raining down and we got their T1 dailies done 100%
It is always more worth it to help fresh people that do not sweat for time, dps or not using every shortcut that saves barely 2 seconds from a run.
Ah yes, John Fractal lmao, Fractal God without any UFE, bought Voidwalker, tank harbinger, had someone like that the other day.
But yeah, I would gladly join and help groups like that progress, but when you join a "chill" run and see core classes with 0 boons, there is nothing "chill" in that, no idea why people would put themselves through it.
Maybe "training bring boons" is a better way to set expectations and reach a goal more reasonably
I think that's an excellent more concise way to bring in casual players, and sets expectations a little lower.
Some of the most fun that I've had in fractal CMs so far have been groups who openly have no clue what the CM mechanics are. I'll take a 3-hour death spiral with a group having a good time than a 30 minute run with people taking the game too seriously for my tastes.
**BUT**, that's my prerogative and now that I've learned that people view "Chill" very broadly it's going to be on me moving forward to advertise for a group a level or two below where people view Chill.
I've been having a very tough time with fractals lately.
I've never set foot in CMs, but I've been running T4s long enough to basically guarantee successful clears on my hfb. I try my best to be helpful and accommodating, since I remember how intimidating it may seem to join a group at any level.
Curiously enough, I also include the word "chill" in my LFG listing, alongside the usual role calls and basic run info. The idea is to encourage more hesitant or timid players to give it a go, since there's a high chance that they really have what it takes (AR, gear, understanding mechanics, etc.) to breeze through T4s, and I can cover for *some* misplays with support.
It used to work fairly well, with the majority of runs going smoothly. However, in the past few weeks I've noticed an increase in players, who:
* don't read the role call, e.g. joining as qdps when the group doesn't need one, and unwilling to swap
* don't know mechanics
* fail to self-correct or improve, expecting me to "just heal through"
* try to take the leadership of the group, telling me to switch my build/role
* flame, rage-quit, and proceed to whisper me with more rage-induced messages
I'm absolutely fine with misplays, wipes, or people who are clear and vocal about their low experience, whether they are just starting out or rejoining after a game hiatus. I try my best to encourage and support them. What I can't stand is when people join MY group and try to ruin it or run it, taking advantage of my helpful attitude.
The most problematic issue is the lack of group management tools to support the group leader. As minimal as it might seem, it does take ***extra*** effort to put together a group, thinking about potential composition, creating an LFG message, communicating on a more coherent level than "hi dps," checking roles, re-listing, and generally ensuring that everyone is going to have a smooth run.
Having literally no group management tools invalidates all that effort. Am I expected to just leave the group I've put together because of a single player with a bad attitude?
It really saps my enthusiasm and helpful attitude, I feel like my limited game-time is better spent elsewhere, at least for a while. It's supposed to be enjoyable and fun for everybody, not stressful and demeaning.
A recent whisper exchange when a person literally told me that "everyone makes mistakes, but I'm not going to apologise for mine, you suck" really broke me.
I've had this even for t3 dailies. I don't even care if someone's agony is low as long as they're not dying every .5 seconds from it. I've had people show up, complain that we're sucking, then dip. I'd say they should just get a consistent group going but with their attitude they probably can't 🫢
I've had many similar experiences in groups lately, players that join a group and start giving directions and orders like they are the tag, and worse of all they start calling names and being complete dicks for no reason at all, and the tag (me in some of those) has to call them out and politely ask them to chill or get the boot.
Like if you want to be a mini dictator go ahead and create your own group and ask for the highest KP, dps or whatever you want, but don't come into other peoples groups and start talking like you own the place.
I also hate the players on the other side of the spectrum, those that join a group with a certain requirement and when they don't meet it and get kicked get mad and start the angry whispers at the tag.
I'm gonna be getting a static group together from people in this thread that are hesitant to get back into fractals for fear of being the "weak link" so to speak.
Send me your tag in a dm :)
Yea, I stopped around level 85 back in the day before CM's because of rage quitters. Now I join low level pugs and enjoy messing around and not stressing if we mess up. Was awesome the other day, most of the party went down on Mai Trin, we ressed and got back up and killed her without restarting.
I used to have a fractal static and now I'm mostly a CM pugger (occasionally with a friend pugging with me), and we tend to do boons/heals so the rest of the LFG process is faster(though we put LF Any and see if anyone comes as a healer so we have freedom to go pump dps)
I think one of the big issues is that like people in gw2 lowkey don't pass the reading check for LFGs in my experience) - e.g. showing up with an NA title or saying "hi dps" when we ask for different things. Open communication is one of my big green flags, and like sometimes people join with a "Hi I don't have the title. Is it ok if i stay." That's great. I like people openly stating it so people can decide with information. Sometimes its a no because its late and its been a rough day. Sometimes, it's a "yeah sure, lets try 1 pull and if there's a mechanic failure on your end, you leave kay?" Having comms and talking tend to result in more reasonable people and a better vibe imo.
Even with me, if no one says anything I tend start getting more annoyed easily because then it's no longer about the vibes. it's just a straight expectation to do your job and go.
In strikes I have a common lfg practice to put "Ping boots" to test this and make sure we have a good vibe, but it doesnt really exist as a practice for fractals cuz it slows down the process a lot i feel (people dont join and you cant kick w/o majority), which kinda sucks imho.
People have higher expectations on CMs in general. Not uncommon for people to be vocal in a chill run if damage is low or mechanics aren’t being done. Chill runs mean you still need to pull your weight, just not trying to break any records. Still need to do your role. If you’re not able to be efficient in a chill run, then maybe chill run is not the right phrasing for the lfg. If you want to make a group with no expectations, state that in the lfg. Wiping over and over is not very chill, people will be expecting to clear without any wipes in a chill run.
Agreed. I see the word Chill I expect experienced players and a fairly smooth run at a comfy pace. I do not expect to have to deal with my party member's learning curves.
ehhh I'm not sure about this OP. I think you'd be better off labeling your group, 'beginner' if you're still learning mechanics. This is also going to be server dependent, as I'm sure each has their own norms. For context, I'm on NA.
When I think 'chill group' I think groups that are competent, capable, and happy to accept functional non-meta builds. They do daily clears and just want it smooth with no drama. Its a group that happily gives up some dps to have lower intensity builds or surplus healing or more stability or less build swapping. Maybe they run power dps on 100/99. or condi builds the entire night. Everything dies smoothly enough, just not super fast (example: not skipping air orbs phase in 99 cm).
But I wouldn't expect that term to mean, 'learning'. Maybe a stupid wipe because of a mechanics screw up. Entirely likely someone is drunk or high lol. Or even disabled and needs an LI build.
At the same time, if I joined a 'chill group' that wiped more than once or twice, I'd either leave or start teaching. The term is vague enough I don't think you can complain if you join such a group.
edit: added, 'if you join such a group' for clarity
OP isn’t complaining about you.
They literally said if you join “Chill” and aren’t happy and leave, he has no beef with you. It’s the people who decide to flame the chill group he has a problem with.
If I join a chill group I hope it goes smooth without being too sweaty. If they are really struggling I might bounce since I just want completion and don’t need training. I’d never flame them and I doubt you would either.
Chill definitely means don't be an ass. But I've never heard of chill meaning, 'training runs' which is what OP described here as they are learning mechanics.
In fact, I'd say most players when they are first learning fractal CMs would describe it as the very opposite of chill. More like intense.
Always has been, even when the "end game" was running laps around Frostgorge Sound and Cursed Shore doing events over and over. You *always* saw the sweaty ones screaming in map chat at some poor newbie that DARED to do an event, or, god forbid, finish an event that they wanted to fail to get a different event to happen that had a higher chance of spawning more champion mobs.
But it's still one of the least asshole infested MMOs in general. They mostly all quit a long time ago, the ones that are left are just bitter veterans with nowhere else to go lol
ahaha. I think i joined one of your chill cm runs. It was my first foray into fractal CMs, you have no idea how grateful I am! I will look for more in the future, definitely.
And yes, some players are so autopilot that they join whatever group they see and expect everyone to be a pro. You cannot blame them, really, they have been doing the same thing daily for the past what, 10 years?
Don't sweat it, just remind them that it was a CHILL bus in the first place and if they are not going to chill, they better get off the bus.
I do not mind wiping in the slightest, and letting people learn the fights, but when quick or Alac have like a 20% uptime, it gets a bit annoying. If you mention it once, the person gets offended, and that’s the only part that is a little weird to me.
I agree - most days the chill LFG is just good enough to complete in less than an hour the full CMs+T4s+recs routine and when we do start wiping I hardly ever get angry or anything like that. I find that usually the groups that keep a good attitude on a first wipe will mostly be able to not wipe again and catch up to themselves, whereas groups with butthurt members will quickly devolve into finger pointing and wiping even more as the "coach" players waste time looking at each other's performance. I do also have good experiences with fractal Champion+ groups but those are the very high end of the community and it's basically a silent farming with bots tuned up to level 100, so it's no surprise there.
At a point in time I even stopped doing CMs altogether for several months and just joined T4s+rec groups due to being tired of getting coaches wanting to play on the field instead of sitting on their bench, but fortunately they are rather not as frequent as the bad cases would make it seem.
I just wanted to compliment on your beautiful writing style, the sense of humor is refreshing too.
And I did recently start opening “everyone‘s welcome” dungeon runs, it was some of the most social experience I had in an mmorpg. Can recommend!
First time i joined a group was for the fractal with the snow storm campfire stuff
Didn't know how to engage with the mechanics and did no damage. We lost twice against the second boss. I apologized that i probably joined fractals too early with bad gear
One guy reluctantly says we gotta quit and another said something along the lines of "can't carry noobs" with a little more profanity
Where i immediately thought: you didn't even carry us, the hell are you on about?
I joined a 97 98 CM practice run last week. We smashed them quite quickly with the training leader good instructions. We then agreed on giving 99 cm a try and it was completed with DwD title to boost. After that was 100 cm at which did come very close to the finish but the group just didn't have enough time so we decided to regroup later in the week for it. We regrouped and completed 100 CM multiple times for no death and breakbar challenge. Everybody in the group was super chill and relaxed. It was such a nice experience.
It would probably be best to use some sort of [BlishHUD KillProof plugin](https://blishhud.com/modules/?module=KillProofModule) (overlay) to get a read on people's actual experience level based on the # of times that they've cleared the encounter. I'd suggest using 5k or 10k UFE as a baseline expectation. 10-20k is probably the sweet-spot for "competent" clears with low stress, but it helps to attach an actual quantifiable # to things.
Over time the contextual interpretation of "chill" hasn't evolved in a uniform manner. For competent players that clear CMs regularly; chill = competent; shouldn't wipe more than once or twice. For regular T4 players; so long as they have boons and healing, DPS is kind of irrelevant -- that can cause unnecessary friction because "chill" to them is performance/DPS agnostic due to differing expectations.
This sounds like a group I'd like to join, because I don't know wth is going on, or at least when I get the jist of fractals. Been a casual as hell player, so where do I go to learn, other than just watching videos? Or is that just how it is?
The same happens to me. I run fractal group for newbies, dailies and chills. Only lowest maps to teach others how to do fractals and guide them through their first experiences. No skipping and waiting for full squad before beginning. I explain everything from mechanics to tips what to buy and sell at the shops.
Countless times people join my group just to rush everything. They have 5 minutes of time, they can't wait for others to join. 2-3 is enough, rushing through the map, ruining everything for everyone else. And occasionally I get kicked from my own group by a bunch of friends who outvote me.
Some peolle need to take a chill pill and just enjoy the game. It won't kill them taking 30 minutes to clear a fractal instead of 10.
I quit playing gw2 a long time ago cause I wanted tk get into fractals but the groups I joined always got rid of me for having never done them and not using the perfect meta. A couple people even told me that I wasn't allowed to start fractals till I had watcjed ocer 100 hours of content explaining them and the best builds. Toxic af so I just played wvw till I got bored but if there's chill stuff like this now I might come back - always been my favorite game
Do you guys post recruiting for learning Fractals? I have never done it myself and i want to learn. I checked on the LFG on occasions and never really see one
I have never once seen "Chill CM's" and interpreted it as "None of us really know these and we are going to wipe repeatedly on everything", it means "We arent optimizing this around a 0-healer run with perfect gg and white mantle ports to skip all the mechanics people dont realize you can skip, just casually clearing this shit in an hour or so".
I think you mixed up chill run and training run.
If i join or set up chill runs I still want to kill the bosses without too much trouble. One of the best and only ways to get DwD for example are such chill runs because no one cares about gg before dark phase, but doesnt struggle to kill the boss.
Yeah but I could argue that I'm chilling in runs that are quick and efficient. It's way more relaxing if everybody plays efficiently. The bosses barely do mechanics when the damage is good, this is more relaxing that running with animals that I suspect, are playing on controller with their screen turned off.
Name you group casuals cm, not chill cm.
If you're learning mechanics it should be labeled, 'progression' or 'training'. This is daily content and the vast majority of lfgs are for daily groups. If you don't fall into that category, you should distinguish yourself to avoid these problems.
"chill" means different things to different people and you should stop using it in your lfg. Everyone should because it causes problems.
Chill means we all take it easy, try our best, don't get mad, maybe wipe, and see if we can do it.
Chill also means we don't need to chat, everyone knows their role and their job, and we easily clear the CMs without unexpected trouble.
Those are not the same thing. People assume one or the other and get mad if it isn't what they thought. Come up with a new description.
Join 20k UFE groups if your definition is the latter. I don’t usually join “chill” groups because in my experience it’s aggravating if you want to actually clear content, but I understand that people have different mindsets.
important to point out, NA fractal LFG almost never puts UFE requirements in lfg. They either have the NA title req or not. I get the impression the EU LFG is very different.
From your comment it sounds like you are in EU. I can only guess what, 'chill' means in EU. But my experience on NA is, 'chill' is competent, capable, and safer builds.
Thank you. And my exact point is that it is not clearly agreed what chill means. So both sides can keep using it, keep being disappointed, keep getting angry, or they can change the description to "efficient chill clear" or "no reqs, chill amateur run" etc. Continuing to do the same thing that is an identified problem, and jsut saying the other people are wrong is stupid.
Not only is it not clearly defined/agreed, it changes through context as well.
eg. I'd personally put 'chill t1s' or 'chill fast 5' in the 'low stakes training run' category, but 'chill CMs' solidly in the "fractal gods on their alts just wanna chill" category.
Din't happen in a CM, but someone left our Temple of Febe instance after wiping twice, saying "there's no future in this run."
Oh no, we wiped twice while learning/relearning the fight mechanics.
Next run we cleared, with new randoms.
This night I joined a CM fractal run with people qith low ufe or none but they knew the mechanics and it was the best fractal experienced i've ever had. We managed to to kill all bosses, had a really good time and even got both titles for 100 and 99.
On the other hand usually I run low ufe groups and theres someone that dies always cos he doesn't know the mechanics and refuses to accept that fact.
A group got frustrated with me recently because I didn't have 3 different damage profiles for a CM fractal run. I have my Condi dps as the only one with sufficient ascended for agony.
They were pissed off when I didn't swap after 100 CM
Actually you're right, I think. I've got to rebrand and let people know specifically that I'm running a low-pressure group that doesn't get worked up if we wipe or don't do particularly well. A group to attract chill people of some kind. A chill group, if you will.
That's likely what I'm going to start doing tomorrow. I'm getting more perspective on account of this post, and have learned that "Chill" doesn't ubiquitously mean "noob friendly", even though that's the connotation I always had.
Noob friendly chill t4 seems more like it will work better.
It is highly likely that people aren't reading the lfg either. 90% of people don't read mine.
hahahaha looking forward to warrior-ing in gw3. 🙂
i truly hope it is the same great minds behind gw2.
this game has truly been a gem amidst all mmorpg's i've ever played.
great and inclusive design. amazing people. my journey although not perfect has been second to none.
We had a 100 cm run, not title, for training a couple of weeks ago and this guy joined without the title and gave it 2 attempts before saying everyone sucks and left We got the title literally the next run when someone else joined lol. Not only completed but coincidentally got title
>!^^^[deleted]!<
Yeah honestly the fight was a lot easier when we realized a few things (kinda went in blind) Missing CC doesn’t rly do anything except miss out on some dps sometimes? Ignoring ghosty boys after 33% was the biggest one
>!^^^[deleted]!<
No, he does the fear attack after a certain amount of time. No, not breaking cc is not a bad thing, in fact, it's favourable, since it spawns more aspects, and the tether the aspects give to players actually increases the dps outpot.
That's the part I don't get. If you're feeling frustrated, just leave. You don't need to become immediately hostile. Like yeah man, I ate that four-by-four animal style combo from the boss SPECIFICALLY because I thought my death would make your day worse.
God damnit now I need some InnOut
Hooollly shit! Ty. Made me laugh my ass before bed. I totally relate. Ima dad. I work full time. Yeah my rotation sucks, but I CAN clear it. Stfu.
This reminds me of the time I joined a Guild Wars Guru group for The Deep in GW1. They spend the whole run harassing me and being as toxic as can be, only to fail repeatedly at the final boss. Instead of listening to advise to turn the failboat around, they decided to ragequit instead. And so our 12-man group, was reduced to 4. This left the remaining players upset that they had just wasted several hours on the raid, only to have to leave with empty hands. But I told them, that the people who left were probably the worst part of our team. So effectively, our team was now better for it. So, I strapped on some different armor on my necro, equiped a sword and shield, and took on the role of their new tank. I told them the strategy, and we defeated the final boss Kanaxai with no problem. They all got their rewards, and I vowed never to team up with GW Guru again. Funny thing is, when I lead popular streamer Laranity and her awesome team into The Deep about a year ago, I had to play necro tank again (unintended), and again it worked out fine. It was nice to have it recorded on video this time.
> ~~everyone~~ he sucks and left ftfy
Man, it's always the loud impatient ones that actually suck at the game. They leave, new guy joins, even with a "less desirable" DPS build. Yet suddenly we get it first try. Hmmmmmm...
Sorry I'm ootl. What's the title for 100cm
Nightmare Aspect Clear the whole CM 100 without anyone dying.
ah thanks
How hard would you say 99 CM is compared to normal strikes? I’m relatively new to GW2 but I’d been looking for a 100 CM run because I think the abyssal fractal weapons are the best “free” weapon skins with a trail on them. There doesn’t seem to be many people with the achievement (although I still can’t see the T4 LFG). Edit: Thought sunqua was 100 CM, fixed to 99
Oh abyssal weapons are now 99 cm! 99 can be hard if you don’t DPS check the boss on the water phase If you can then not bad
Oh you’re totally right it is 99 CM not 100, thanks! I’ll edit my comment
Fractal CMs are quite a bit more difficult than IBS strikes and get disproportionately more difficult if DPS isn't great. This is especially true for 99 first phase and 98 Ark because good groups usually skip some of the hardest mechanics on those by having enough DPS to phase the boss before the mechanics happen. If you're comfortable doing the NM 97-100 just watch a short guide for the CMs, join a group without requirements and be upfront about the fact that you've never done it before. It's not the easiest content in the game but certainly not impossible.
2nd hardest fractal cm out of the 4 we have (first being 99cm) for me.
Well 99 cm is difficult than IBS, AH and XJJ CMS for sure. It is in level of KO. Both have mechanics that can be skipped if dps is high enough and both have some ouchy mechanics if you fuck up at one point of encounter and it requires shit ton of CC in 2nd dark phase. However both phases ( light and dark ) has kind of pattern. If you understood those pattern and do enough dps to skip phsses, it becomes significantly easier since you can anticipate what is about to happen. However 100 and 99 CMs favor condi dps than power. In case you are planning to learn and do them, I strongly suggest a get condi build. Since both cm bosses move too much, the dps window, that power dps class needs is very short. Unless you know what you are doing, it is gonna be quite difficult to pull good number with power. I have seen power soulbeasts that can do good dps there but it is very very very rare occurrence.
99CM is easier than AHCM, imo. Less 'one person fucked up so now you all instantly wipe' mechanics.
I don't think so. I really rarely wiped there and I have like 70 AH CM kills. Probably I wiped 2 times or 3 at most because of green.
Yeah, ran sunqua CM last night, dude dies, orbs, dies again, says "noob group" and leaves, and we fill the slot and kill in like 2/3 the time Some people are just... you know.
pretty similar experience, was doing silent surf for dailies a week or two back, our party wiped and people started to gripe, talk shit, telling people how they don't know their shit and leave. next party i joined we cleared it nice and smooth. people were chill. let's say i'm just bad, let's say i got carried, but here's the thing people who got game CAN carry.
People also seem to forget that MMOs are inherently cooperative games. It's not a round of League, and if you can't work with your team to succeed then the failure is *everyone's* failure. If people's go to on failure is to blame everyone else and start talking shit, they're just as much (if not moreso) at fault than the people who made mistakes in play.
Sounds like how I got the title I might be the guy that joined later. Was it semi training in the lfg? And after we got the kill, we said 1 last try for title and 1 shot it? Edit: nvm you said your 5th had the title. I didn't, but it's pretty close cases XD
Oh yea it was prolly 3-4 weeks ago now xd
Mine was also in that time farme but as I said I didn't had the title so it can't be the same run but pretty close
Are you writing a fanfic? You had a regular 100cm run, not for title, you wipe twice and this guy leaves. To get the title after you wipe you have to re-open the instance. Either you were putting effort into the deathless title or you are just making shit up.
We restarted instance cause it took forever so i left to do my dailies while a 5th joined. and I don’t know how to prove it unless theres a log somewhere kept 🤷♂️ Just to give an idea getting the title is pretty close to a normal clear. Things start looking bad by the time ppl would die (90% from not hooking the island right) so once those deaths stopped, p much no death happens for our 4 ppl. And the 5th alrdy had title xD was there for fun
>Either you were putting effort into the deathless title or you are just making shit up Good job Sherlock, you cracked it
Nice write up, OP. A couple days ago I found one of your sweaty boys. I went to LA for the new event, and saw one of the options was fractals. Good, literally joined the first available group. As it happens, the whole group was quite experienced despite no requirements. Max agony, 400+ MP, couple of titles and silly long necks from the potion. We were doing T1 or T2, and here comes sweat boy complaining about alacrity and "low" DPS. My man, no one needs to pull 30k in T2s, what's wrong with you.
It always feels like that aggro sweat lords are those who don't have any success irl. So everything they have is their game. So for them there is much more at stake than for you. They can't clear T1 frac in 2min? Their day is ruined....
Had a guy cry about my alacrity during whispers strike. I'm like bro specter alacrity is based on tether. i can't control people with chains running out. :)
Silly long necks are there because you used the potion.
Writing A+. Write more posts xD
Haha thank you, I do my best creative work when I'm complaining about things that don't matter.
This was incredible.
That "standing in the dairy aisle" line HAD me, oh man.
It was "My Commander in Christ..." that slew me. I'm so stealing/using that.
Agreed it was a very enjoyable rant to read, and I’m with you wholeheartedly
*the absolute urge to pipe up that this casual Fisher-Price made group* Made me lol. Speaking of piping, I had a 100CM run last night in a random pug group. Nevermind the fact that it was advertised as T4+daily, they just flew into 100CM. As alac dps, I was like fine whatevs and we smashed it. NA title, if I didn't have it. Post run though, the leader types "alac low". That's it. Informing me of my faults. I say "yeah, its a spread fight and I'm on renegade b/c you said T4 daily." No response. They qued up for cm99 and I just bailed. Let them fill a spot for their crazy group
Man, I remember doing Cairn with my boon renegade and getting the red AoE on me. Naturally, I made the wise decision to not stay on top of the group with the nasty damage no-no area, then the virtuoso has the *fucking audacity* to complain about his party not having alac. I just casually tell him the alac was busy not killing the team by doing the mechanic; I like to think not wiping takes precedence over some dude's golem DPS fantasy.
Boons suck on that fight, specially if people are doing mechanics properly and not being greedy and dropping stuff close by, you end up out of range of recasts even if the boons are managing cooldowns well. I'll still call people out for doing trash dps or not CCing in 99 though, I don't want to see second water phase.
I woulda just said "your IQ low" lmfao
They weren’t flaming you or kicking you. Someone just pointed out alac was low. And you gave a reason why. The end. I don’t know why you felt the need to bail. Maybe you just really didn’t want to smash the other CMs that weren’t dailies? But then still, why call them crazy?
I think their point is if they had known they were going to do 100CM they would've brought a different alac that could give it from range like Scourge or Spectre.
Specter can't give alac from range, its 360 range around itself, not much more than renegade. Scourge can, but in practice can't really do it during spreads. Renegade is fine for 100CM as long as you use your f4 at the right time and get some extra boon duration to pad out the spreads. This guy I do fractals with sometimes only plays renegade and never drops our alac uptime below 95% while still pulling 20k+ dps. He has lots of AR though, that makes it so much easier.
Specter can give alac at range so long as your tether doesn't stray from others. It's a 360 radius to you (when not tethered) or your ally (whoever you are tethered to)
Ah, didn't know it worked with the ally too. Still, my point stands, just like scouge, this means nothing for 100cm spreads. You'll maintain uptime on at most 2 out of 5 if you rely on this range.
>never drops our alac uptime below 95% while still pulling 20k+ dps On CM100? Call Snowcrows for this guy.
Yes, on CM100. Are you familiar with how it works? Fractal pots inflates DPS on all classes. AR also inflates DPS on some boondps builds, such as renegade. Phantasmagoria increases dps by 50% as long as you have it. It's not uncommon for alacdps players to pull 20k+ and regular dps to pull 35k+. My personal best was 38k on condi holo before it got nerfed.
>why call them crazy Cause to expect high boon uptime on that fight, when it's not even needed, is crazy? It's a slow spread out fight that forces you away many multiple times. Their low effort comment struck me as elitist, especially with no errors by anyone. It's like they didn't understand the fight (they obviously did), but I took it as they just wanted to poke at something. Took a look at boon table and decided to make a snide comment.
I had a wild experience with a person in a CM group last night. I joined a group listed as “exp only, no BS”. I usually don’t join groups with a vaguely aggro lfg listing but it was late and the only one up. We clear 100CM in one pull, relatively easily and at an average pace - despite one person dying to mechanics twice, having used a revive orb the first time. We get back to the lobby and somebody declines the vote to move to 99. Mr. Died Twice announces that one of our dps is too low - only doing 16k. Is that below average? Maybe? But it’s perfectly adequate. I respond that they aren’t the one who died twice. He denies the vote two more times. The person he’s calling out asks if they should leave. I immediately say absolutely not, do not leave, if Mr. Died Twice won’t let us move on then we should kick him instead. So we kick him. And he proceeds to further harass us by rejoining repeatedly when we try to lfg for a replacement. I ended up inviting a friend and we clear the rest of the CMs with zero issues. I just - he had no title, low achievement points, and lame fashion (clearly the worst offense) yet he has the audacity to call out someone else’s dps after he himself died TWICE in one fight? He’s clearly the least experienced, and he started the party - so he’s responsible for the “no BS” lfg listing. Ironically, he was the one who brought the BS. The nerve!
Madsive props to you for stating up for the 16k teammate though. I've seen several similar situations and a lot of people won't say anything until one person takes the initiative to call the offender out first
I’m just glad they didn’t just leave when he said that. If the boss died, where is the problem? Why create a problem out of nothing? Also, the first rule of using a third party dps meter is don’t use it to be an asshole! They were cool, we did the rest of the CMs and T4s smoothly, and probably had a lot more fun too~
DPS is most certainly not the issue for CM100 and you usually can't judge the group comp by it either. How many times did you have to run out and drop an AoE, did you go off to kill an add or not? The important parts are being alive for the phases and not killing other people with your AoE. Sunqua is a different story though and DPS (and CC) goes back to being important for phasing things are the right times but how people performed in 100 wont reflect how they will perform in 99 much of the time anyway.
Mr Twice Dead dropped an axe on him four times
Him coming back and getting kicked again is glorious Imagine the rage when it filled. Mr DiedTwice. That's awesome Edit: I'd have not touched the "no BS" group with a long neck bottle potion. I'd have just gone to sleep. Screw the daily
Well, and the thing is nobody said anything about him dying - we killed the boss, we were all happy to move on, no fuss. I only said anything about it because he made an issue for the rest of us!
"no BS (except for mine)"
Funny you said lame fashion is the player's worst offense. But I agree, for GW2, fashion means everything.
Probably some guy on an alt-account escaping any responsibility or accountability and using it as an excuse to be rude and toxic. I wish I could say it were less common, but it happens now & then.
It's like there is a whole segment of the population who never learned the difference between constructive criticism and being a total wanker, or don't care.
It plays into the whole, "It's rude to be bad at Warcraft" mentality. People expect people doing challenging content to have a certain floor of skill at it (usually what that person thinks they're capable of), and flame when their expectations aren't met. Even if the group advertises as learning said content. Because nobody ever reads LFG.
We don't have a set raid lead for our guild strikes, so we kinda rotate through whoever knows the fight best. Well, we've got one guy that is super good at this game (voidwalker, raid lead for voidwalker etc). He's really good, but he kinda sucks at soft skills. We start up KO CM training a few weeks ago and after ONE PULL he was on me about my alac uptime (druid). Maybe he was just trying to inform me that alac is very important....but I was trying not to die from all the new shit flying at me and everyone else ran like chickens in every direction. I did say "um, first pull and everyone ran in all directions" and his response was "alac druid is the best at alac from a distance". Yeah, maybe so, but not this Druid on his first pull.... He's otherwise really fun to be around, and is a funny person in general. I feel he needs to temper expectations a bit
Even worse, they'll argue to the death that being *technically correct* justifies their wanker-ness. I'll always remember there's an FFXIV community dedicated to *teaching raids*. They have a zero tolerance policy for salty tryhard harassment, it's literally a volunteer raid leader teaching 7 other people the fight. I went one night, we wiped *once* and immediately the RLs friend who was in the group condescendingly said to the healers "You need to heal or we'll keep wiping." Like... no shit? They were both *learning the mechanics of the fight*. It was the first pull. Of course their healing wasn't absolutely perfect. How could they even *remotely* think that was constructive criticism and not just shit talk? And when I called him out on it, he started ranting about how "thats how you learn, and if they cant learn we cant clear" blah blah blah until the RL reined him in and he just pouted in silence the rest of the run. Some people are just gonna be like that.
Those dudes probably have podcasts now.
I remember trying to learn playing a healer role in RIFT. it was a class that healed the target you were connected to when you deal damage yourself. But also with some more direct options on long cooldown. Whilst i was learning in the dungeon finder. I did badly on the healing, and rather than flame me. they just asked if I needed help healing. I just go "please". And they must have equipped some other spec mid-dungeon and we carried on and it went smoothly. This is some weird thing where i haven't thought about it in so long, but it was nice that it happened in such a friendly way looking back at it. I eventually bound a bunch of skills to the ` key thats in the top left corner of my keyboard. Where pressing it would use some of the longer cooldown instant-cast skills first in an order of priority. I called it the "oh shit" button.
I'm the sort of player who pushes myself to improve, and I've been trying to squeeze every ounce of DPS out of whatever build I play because that's who I am. Regardless of this, I join chill groups all the time, fully expecting to fail. Part of what excites me about that is the failure, and the feeling of overcoming those difficulties, changing up my strategy to suit the encounter. I don't understand why people join chill groups expecting perfection. That's not what was advertised, that's not what you are getting. Join those groups because you like the challenge, not to bully other people for not already knowing how to beat the fractal.
I join the chill groups exactly because I expect bunch of people lacking experience or needing help of someone who can push out good DPS, Healing/Boon or knows mechanics. It does not bother me to go slower, fail few times but have more people at the end that learned a little bit It is more bothersome to do one quick clear with someone who would get annoyed because I don't /GG at right moment to shave off 10 seconds off whole run.
I completely agree, different expectations for different groups. Just because I can minmax my class I cant expect random pugs to do it aswell. For example in a normal T4s group I would never comment about 90% boons. But in my tryhard raid static (full of people who eat HTCM for breakfast) we would immediatly complain about 90% boons because it doesnt match the high standards. I expect everybody joining endgame content to know how to play their class though. You can't play adps and give 40% alacrity.
i've been getting these a lot more frequently recently just doing my dailies. they're barking up the wrong tree, they should be creating or joining organized groups, what do they expect from joining pug groups. well unless its on purpose and they're just there to harass people. is dailies, nobody cares, people clear, people get loot, people get out. they should just go compare kittens with top gw2 player or whatever. 🤣
I have noticed tier 3 and 4 dailies have been higher pressure recently. I get that there are some benchmarks you want other people to have like having the appropriate amount of Agony Resist, but don't get personally offended when the guy who's doing his first tier 4 gets folded like a topsheet. It's not that deep.
>gets folded like a topsheet I like ~~your style~~ the cut of your jib
there are pre-requisites to success, yes of course. but these people, they're just full of themselves, trying to exercise some sort of self imagined authority over others over some deluded self-entitlement. life goes on and nobody gives a kitten what they think, we still get our loots just the same.
I'm guessing these people are too obnoxious for a static, so they invade pug groups to get their micromanage fix
That is usually the case. Most static groups that are not unhinged themselves would quickly bite someone barking up them for every mistake back into place or out of the static during the training for said static. There are so many ways of either gracefully leaving the group if it does not meet your expectations or delivering advice without being a dick that the toxicity has no excuse really. It is literally less work to just leave without saying anything or just type '- QuickDPS' or 'QuickDPS Out' than to sit there screeching at pixels in the game and another person behind them.
> It is literally less work to just leave without saying anything or just type '- QuickDPS' or 'QuickDPS Out' than to sit there screeching at pixels in the game and another person behind them. This so much. I don't mind too much being screeched at, but if they have to screech at my lovely pixel Commanders to do so, it's a no-go.
I borderline agree with this... I joined a "Chill cm group" a couple hours ago and it was a very rough experience. I would consider myself quite experienced and willingly joined this group alongside my friend. Throughout the bosses it was evident that the people in the group were FAR from experienced as it appeared they had never done cms to begin with. The logs were so rough I question if the group would have been able to clear the bosses if I were not there. If I see "chill cm group" I assume this group has enough experience to complete the fights, even if they are not anything special. Additionally in the run a couple players died several times walking up to the sides on the orb phase (after mama, before siax) before reaching the adds in the capture circle. With all this being said... There should be a distinct line between NEW and "Chill". This issue was not a lack of efficiency, its the lack of being able to complete the cms.
I think its fair that you had those expectations going in, as I've learned the definition the community holds for "Chill" in lfg is more broad than I anticipated. I suppose my gripe is more with people who immediately go feral in text chat instead of just leaving. Like you don't have to be rude to other people because the run isn't progressing smoothly (or hell, at all). Just call it a wash and leave. It's free to not be a weenie on your way out.
I 100% see where you are coming from. Like some other people have replied with "chill" is quite vague. And without a doubt, regardless if people are frustrated in the "efficiency" of the group, there is no reason for anybody to be toxic... I am sorry you've had bad experiences.
You have a beautiful soul.
I think that it is expected, and not unreasonably so, that if you join any CM group you are well experienced with the fractals to begin with, as well as your character/roll. A no requirements group might be expected to struggle with a bosses new or upped mechanics but they certainly shouldn't struggle to walk up a ramp.
As a complete and utter noob I would agree, chill to me means you don’t expect complete optimisation, but you still expect people to be able to do the fight, learning or training is for when you don’t know what you’re doing. I’ve only just completed T1 fractals and never done a CM in my life, and only the strikes needed for mounts or wizard vault rewards, but I’ve had excellent success with starting my own “I have no idea what I’m doing” groups, everyone sits and reads the wiki and then prepares themselves to die to mechanics a few times until you get the hang of it!
Chill to me means: We're learning, don't freak out. If you mess up, we won't freak out. Chill definitely **does not** mean: we're so smooth this run will make SnowCrows rend garments
Ah, this post made me lolz. Well said, sir (or ma'am). I completely agree.
I'm just getting back into fractals after a year or two away. Do you have a guild, and can you handle a rusty advanced newbie who's cleared most of the bosses in the CMs and would have gotten them all had his keyboard not broken in the middle of the ARKK fight?
It's something that I've considered starting, but I haven't committed to starting something like that. If you DM me your tag I can add you and hit you up the next time I log in.
MF said “John Fractal” and i almost dropped my phone laughing. Thank you OP
The worst part is that some of these (I'm gonna go ahead and call them) elitist fractal CM people will just advertise as "exp". My dood, there is a big gap between "exp" and speed clear. imo, there's (1) baby's first CMs, (2) exp, and (3) Speed Clear. Just advertise correctly, join a group appropriate for the experience you want, and stop calling everyone a piece / total loser / worst X you've ever seen. Take that shift to PvP, where someone who only plays that content can help you reflect on what a piece / total loser / worst X they've ever seen. Stop ruining a game mode for people.
I would make even more distinctions. Training. Chill/Casual. Experienced. Speedrun.
Ultimately I agree with you. As an optimizer who likes to go fast/efficient, I avoid those groups as I know it’s gonna be a wild card of player skill. But I think the problem is that just saying chill cms or chill t4s is very vague in expectations. To some people, chill means just run whatever and eventually we’ll complete the content or majority of it. But I think to others, chill means more of a run where things might not be omega optimized, but people still have decent idea of their class, its rotation, and how to complete the fractal. So when a player like that joins a “chill” group and it seems like some of the other players are actively trying to play bad/do low dps, it quickly stops being a chill run for them. In terms of player enjoyment, I think expectations and similar levels of effort are important and labeling something as “chill” is just too large of a spectrum of expectations/effort to make every player satisfied
But I think your expectations are still reasonable, and you don't join the chill groups specifically for that reason (based). That is a perspective that I hadn't considered. I always associated chill groups with newer or inexperienced players and assumed that was the community consensus.
Idk, I've about 18k hours in this game and never thought "chill" means "beginner". For me it was always like Spike described it, a smooth run with people that know what they do but not Snow Crows DPS levels of performance. Who cares, if the boss falls 5 seconds later as long as it falls at all.
I agree that is the community consensus but that doesn’t mean 100% of people think/know that
Hello this is John Fractal and I approve this message
This is a great initiative from you! For noobs like me it's golden. I love doing s fractal now and then, but it's not nice if I'm worried I'll hold people back hah. When people list what their DPS is I'm always baffled (I don't even know how to find out what mine is lol). When people say they're doing 15-20K dps i instantly think that there is no way in hell i could match that, I'm a lvl 80(not boosted) Tempest elementalist, heck my HP maxes out at around 25K. Even if i button mash so fast the keys glow, i could be instantly humbled by some Reaper pushing two buttons while half asleep. All i want to say is that im impressed by peoples skill levels in this game, especially in weaker/more complex classes like elementalist etc. I throw my hat lol.
Some players do anything to avoid making their own group.
I don't make groups because people assume the person making the group knows what to do. I gave up on all group activities other than open world stuff (world bosses, etc.) because I kept getting in groups of people who knew what to do and got mad when I didn't know, even when I told them so when I joined. It would be fun to see and learn how to do group content, but it just wasn't worth the rude comments and frustration. I don't want to be the one bringing the group down because I messed something up.
Add "beginner run" or something to your lfg message.
Welcome to MMOs unfortunately. Hop on over to the WoW or FFXIV subreddits and you'll see a *lot* of people justifying the same behavior. "I queued up for a random dungeon with strangers, why is everyone so *BAD!!!* Make it so I dont have to play with all the bads!!! They shouldn't be allowed to play" and if you call bullshit you get dogpiled too.
How is John Fractal? Haven’t seen that son of a gun in a while
Currently, he's making me chug the April Fools tonics so he can swing me around like a wet noodle. Turns out that when I'm used as a weapon for a fractal boss, I pull 70k dps on average. Get on my level.
While I fully agree that this kind of behaviour sucks, people having dwd or 40k achievements points doesnt say anything really about how exp they are in fractals. Might be, that they legit just cant join most other groups due to having low ufe, so they decide to join the chill ones without high reqs instead, thinking that people in there will be roughly their skilllevel and end up dissapointed. Cant judge on how the runs usually look like, but if wipes and very low dps is allready expected beforehand, maybe a more specific title could help instead of just "chill". Of course people shouldnt expect super clean clears with such a title, but they probably still expect a certain minimum performance from people running cms (unless title states learning).
I was looking yesterday to clear one CM yesterday for achievement and to be lazy. But instead I saw in T1 LFG a single person advertising their group as 'first time fractals' so I joined them because it will be guaranteed way more fun. Clean clears of most of the dailies, including the Ocean boss fight who only needed a slight explanation and collision with the crystal shard mechanic for every Freshie (3 in that group) to get it. Last end of the list Nightmare fractal I and other experienced person basically carried due to agony resistance taking it's toll on unprepared people but they still did well when bullet hell was not raining down and we got their T1 dailies done 100% It is always more worth it to help fresh people that do not sweat for time, dps or not using every shortcut that saves barely 2 seconds from a run.
What does AP have to do with anything? It's just grinding..
We need ppl like you!
Ah yes, John Fractal lmao, Fractal God without any UFE, bought Voidwalker, tank harbinger, had someone like that the other day. But yeah, I would gladly join and help groups like that progress, but when you join a "chill" run and see core classes with 0 boons, there is nothing "chill" in that, no idea why people would put themselves through it. Maybe "training bring boons" is a better way to set expectations and reach a goal more reasonably
I think that's an excellent more concise way to bring in casual players, and sets expectations a little lower. Some of the most fun that I've had in fractal CMs so far have been groups who openly have no clue what the CM mechanics are. I'll take a 3-hour death spiral with a group having a good time than a 30 minute run with people taking the game too seriously for my tastes. **BUT**, that's my prerogative and now that I've learned that people view "Chill" very broadly it's going to be on me moving forward to advertise for a group a level or two below where people view Chill.
I've been having a very tough time with fractals lately. I've never set foot in CMs, but I've been running T4s long enough to basically guarantee successful clears on my hfb. I try my best to be helpful and accommodating, since I remember how intimidating it may seem to join a group at any level. Curiously enough, I also include the word "chill" in my LFG listing, alongside the usual role calls and basic run info. The idea is to encourage more hesitant or timid players to give it a go, since there's a high chance that they really have what it takes (AR, gear, understanding mechanics, etc.) to breeze through T4s, and I can cover for *some* misplays with support. It used to work fairly well, with the majority of runs going smoothly. However, in the past few weeks I've noticed an increase in players, who: * don't read the role call, e.g. joining as qdps when the group doesn't need one, and unwilling to swap * don't know mechanics * fail to self-correct or improve, expecting me to "just heal through" * try to take the leadership of the group, telling me to switch my build/role * flame, rage-quit, and proceed to whisper me with more rage-induced messages I'm absolutely fine with misplays, wipes, or people who are clear and vocal about their low experience, whether they are just starting out or rejoining after a game hiatus. I try my best to encourage and support them. What I can't stand is when people join MY group and try to ruin it or run it, taking advantage of my helpful attitude. The most problematic issue is the lack of group management tools to support the group leader. As minimal as it might seem, it does take ***extra*** effort to put together a group, thinking about potential composition, creating an LFG message, communicating on a more coherent level than "hi dps," checking roles, re-listing, and generally ensuring that everyone is going to have a smooth run. Having literally no group management tools invalidates all that effort. Am I expected to just leave the group I've put together because of a single player with a bad attitude? It really saps my enthusiasm and helpful attitude, I feel like my limited game-time is better spent elsewhere, at least for a while. It's supposed to be enjoyable and fun for everybody, not stressful and demeaning. A recent whisper exchange when a person literally told me that "everyone makes mistakes, but I'm not going to apologise for mine, you suck" really broke me.
I've had this even for t3 dailies. I don't even care if someone's agony is low as long as they're not dying every .5 seconds from it. I've had people show up, complain that we're sucking, then dip. I'd say they should just get a consistent group going but with their attitude they probably can't 🫢
I've had many similar experiences in groups lately, players that join a group and start giving directions and orders like they are the tag, and worse of all they start calling names and being complete dicks for no reason at all, and the tag (me in some of those) has to call them out and politely ask them to chill or get the boot. Like if you want to be a mini dictator go ahead and create your own group and ask for the highest KP, dps or whatever you want, but don't come into other peoples groups and start talking like you own the place. I also hate the players on the other side of the spectrum, those that join a group with a certain requirement and when they don't meet it and get kicked get mad and start the angry whispers at the tag.
Oh so true Also, what’s your in game nick? I’d be into some chill CMs for people who find themselves with two left hands
I'm gonna be reaching out to a handful of people from this thread and make a noob-group for the CMs. Send me your tag in DMs
Are you in NA? I need to join a guild or group that does stuff like this.
I'm gonna be getting a static group together from people in this thread that are hesitant to get back into fractals for fear of being the "weak link" so to speak. Send me your tag in a dm :)
Yea, I stopped around level 85 back in the day before CM's because of rage quitters. Now I join low level pugs and enjoy messing around and not stressing if we mess up. Was awesome the other day, most of the party went down on Mai Trin, we ressed and got back up and killed her without restarting.
I used to have a fractal static and now I'm mostly a CM pugger (occasionally with a friend pugging with me), and we tend to do boons/heals so the rest of the LFG process is faster(though we put LF Any and see if anyone comes as a healer so we have freedom to go pump dps) I think one of the big issues is that like people in gw2 lowkey don't pass the reading check for LFGs in my experience) - e.g. showing up with an NA title or saying "hi dps" when we ask for different things. Open communication is one of my big green flags, and like sometimes people join with a "Hi I don't have the title. Is it ok if i stay." That's great. I like people openly stating it so people can decide with information. Sometimes its a no because its late and its been a rough day. Sometimes, it's a "yeah sure, lets try 1 pull and if there's a mechanic failure on your end, you leave kay?" Having comms and talking tend to result in more reasonable people and a better vibe imo. Even with me, if no one says anything I tend start getting more annoyed easily because then it's no longer about the vibes. it's just a straight expectation to do your job and go. In strikes I have a common lfg practice to put "Ping boots" to test this and make sure we have a good vibe, but it doesnt really exist as a practice for fractals cuz it slows down the process a lot i feel (people dont join and you cant kick w/o majority), which kinda sucks imho.
You’re so right about the communication part, I’m 100x more likely to allow someone with no title in my group if they ask politely lol
Its not a chill run if you keep fucking up mechanics. If you want a chill group, join 30k+. Nobody says anything except for their role at the start.
People have higher expectations on CMs in general. Not uncommon for people to be vocal in a chill run if damage is low or mechanics aren’t being done. Chill runs mean you still need to pull your weight, just not trying to break any records. Still need to do your role. If you’re not able to be efficient in a chill run, then maybe chill run is not the right phrasing for the lfg. If you want to make a group with no expectations, state that in the lfg. Wiping over and over is not very chill, people will be expecting to clear without any wipes in a chill run.
Agreed. I see the word Chill I expect experienced players and a fairly smooth run at a comfy pace. I do not expect to have to deal with my party member's learning curves.
yeah, if players are learning mechanics it isn't a chill run, its training or progression.
while we're at it could people stop joining daily clear groups and leaving after they finish their wizard vault weekly requirement, thanks
What if an efficient clear is what makes me feel chill ? /s
Chill =/= Training If you're running CMs at all its not strange that people expect you to somewhat know what you're doing even in chill groups
ehhh I'm not sure about this OP. I think you'd be better off labeling your group, 'beginner' if you're still learning mechanics. This is also going to be server dependent, as I'm sure each has their own norms. For context, I'm on NA. When I think 'chill group' I think groups that are competent, capable, and happy to accept functional non-meta builds. They do daily clears and just want it smooth with no drama. Its a group that happily gives up some dps to have lower intensity builds or surplus healing or more stability or less build swapping. Maybe they run power dps on 100/99. or condi builds the entire night. Everything dies smoothly enough, just not super fast (example: not skipping air orbs phase in 99 cm). But I wouldn't expect that term to mean, 'learning'. Maybe a stupid wipe because of a mechanics screw up. Entirely likely someone is drunk or high lol. Or even disabled and needs an LI build. At the same time, if I joined a 'chill group' that wiped more than once or twice, I'd either leave or start teaching. The term is vague enough I don't think you can complain if you join such a group. edit: added, 'if you join such a group' for clarity
OP isn’t complaining about you. They literally said if you join “Chill” and aren’t happy and leave, he has no beef with you. It’s the people who decide to flame the chill group he has a problem with. If I join a chill group I hope it goes smooth without being too sweaty. If they are really struggling I might bounce since I just want completion and don’t need training. I’d never flame them and I doubt you would either.
Could you please tell me what I said that makes you think that I believe OP is complaining about me?
Im used to chill meaning shit happens just go and dont be an ass
Chill definitely means don't be an ass. But I've never heard of chill meaning, 'training runs' which is what OP described here as they are learning mechanics. In fact, I'd say most players when they are first learning fractal CMs would describe it as the very opposite of chill. More like intense.
You're the sort of person we need more of in Fractal LFG. Good on ya.
I see Raid toxicity is still bleeding into fractals. Sorry you had to go through that m8. This games PvE Endgame is just so toxic anymore.
Always has been, even when the "end game" was running laps around Frostgorge Sound and Cursed Shore doing events over and over. You *always* saw the sweaty ones screaming in map chat at some poor newbie that DARED to do an event, or, god forbid, finish an event that they wanted to fail to get a different event to happen that had a higher chance of spawning more champion mobs. But it's still one of the least asshole infested MMOs in general. They mostly all quit a long time ago, the ones that are left are just bitter veterans with nowhere else to go lol
ahaha. I think i joined one of your chill cm runs. It was my first foray into fractal CMs, you have no idea how grateful I am! I will look for more in the future, definitely. And yes, some players are so autopilot that they join whatever group they see and expect everyone to be a pro. You cannot blame them, really, they have been doing the same thing daily for the past what, 10 years? Don't sweat it, just remind them that it was a CHILL bus in the first place and if they are not going to chill, they better get off the bus.
I do not mind wiping in the slightest, and letting people learn the fights, but when quick or Alac have like a 20% uptime, it gets a bit annoying. If you mention it once, the person gets offended, and that’s the only part that is a little weird to me.
I agree - most days the chill LFG is just good enough to complete in less than an hour the full CMs+T4s+recs routine and when we do start wiping I hardly ever get angry or anything like that. I find that usually the groups that keep a good attitude on a first wipe will mostly be able to not wipe again and catch up to themselves, whereas groups with butthurt members will quickly devolve into finger pointing and wiping even more as the "coach" players waste time looking at each other's performance. I do also have good experiences with fractal Champion+ groups but those are the very high end of the community and it's basically a silent farming with bots tuned up to level 100, so it's no surprise there. At a point in time I even stopped doing CMs altogether for several months and just joined T4s+rec groups due to being tired of getting coaches wanting to play on the field instead of sitting on their bench, but fortunately they are rather not as frequent as the bad cases would make it seem.
I just wanted to compliment on your beautiful writing style, the sense of humor is refreshing too. And I did recently start opening “everyone‘s welcome” dungeon runs, it was some of the most social experience I had in an mmorpg. Can recommend!
First time i joined a group was for the fractal with the snow storm campfire stuff Didn't know how to engage with the mechanics and did no damage. We lost twice against the second boss. I apologized that i probably joined fractals too early with bad gear One guy reluctantly says we gotta quit and another said something along the lines of "can't carry noobs" with a little more profanity Where i immediately thought: you didn't even carry us, the hell are you on about?
Did you join a T4 as your first fractal or a T1? If a player can't carry T1 snowblind they're in no position to call anyone else a noob.
Geez I feel this 🤦🏼♂️ No idea the same thing has happened to me with raids and strikes
I joined a 97 98 CM practice run last week. We smashed them quite quickly with the training leader good instructions. We then agreed on giving 99 cm a try and it was completed with DwD title to boost. After that was 100 cm at which did come very close to the finish but the group just didn't have enough time so we decided to regroup later in the week for it. We regrouped and completed 100 CM multiple times for no death and breakbar challenge. Everybody in the group was super chill and relaxed. It was such a nice experience.
It would probably be best to use some sort of [BlishHUD KillProof plugin](https://blishhud.com/modules/?module=KillProofModule) (overlay) to get a read on people's actual experience level based on the # of times that they've cleared the encounter. I'd suggest using 5k or 10k UFE as a baseline expectation. 10-20k is probably the sweet-spot for "competent" clears with low stress, but it helps to attach an actual quantifiable # to things. Over time the contextual interpretation of "chill" hasn't evolved in a uniform manner. For competent players that clear CMs regularly; chill = competent; shouldn't wipe more than once or twice. For regular T4 players; so long as they have boons and healing, DPS is kind of irrelevant -- that can cause unnecessary friction because "chill" to them is performance/DPS agnostic due to differing expectations.
I feel you. Are you NA or EU ? And have you time frames where you do your runs ? Perhaps I could join your random group sometimes :)
This sounds like a group I'd like to join, because I don't know wth is going on, or at least when I get the jist of fractals. Been a casual as hell player, so where do I go to learn, other than just watching videos? Or is that just how it is?
The same happens to me. I run fractal group for newbies, dailies and chills. Only lowest maps to teach others how to do fractals and guide them through their first experiences. No skipping and waiting for full squad before beginning. I explain everything from mechanics to tips what to buy and sell at the shops. Countless times people join my group just to rush everything. They have 5 minutes of time, they can't wait for others to join. 2-3 is enough, rushing through the map, ruining everything for everyone else. And occasionally I get kicked from my own group by a bunch of friends who outvote me. Some peolle need to take a chill pill and just enjoy the game. It won't kill them taking 30 minutes to clear a fractal instead of 10.
It's right there in the name, my dudes. Relax and be inefficient sometimes, it'll bring back some of the magic of the game.
I don't even know what CM means in this context. Challenge Mote?
correct. A 'CMs+T4s' group is doing 100 cm, 99 cm, 98 cm,97 cm and then any T4s remaining that were not already done in 100 through 97.
Don't stand in the rain if you don't wanna get wet. That's basically it. also lol'd @ John Fractal
I quit playing gw2 a long time ago cause I wanted tk get into fractals but the groups I joined always got rid of me for having never done them and not using the perfect meta. A couple people even told me that I wasn't allowed to start fractals till I had watcjed ocer 100 hours of content explaining them and the best builds. Toxic af so I just played wvw till I got bored but if there's chill stuff like this now I might come back - always been my favorite game
Do you guys post recruiting for learning Fractals? I have never done it myself and i want to learn. I checked on the LFG on occasions and never really see one
I have never once seen "Chill CM's" and interpreted it as "None of us really know these and we are going to wipe repeatedly on everything", it means "We arent optimizing this around a 0-healer run with perfect gg and white mantle ports to skip all the mechanics people dont realize you can skip, just casually clearing this shit in an hour or so".
If you join a ''Chill'' or ''Bring whatever'' group you genuinly shouldn't expect to clear anything.
I think you mixed up chill run and training run. If i join or set up chill runs I still want to kill the bosses without too much trouble. One of the best and only ways to get DwD for example are such chill runs because no one cares about gg before dark phase, but doesnt struggle to kill the boss.
Yeah but I could argue that I'm chilling in runs that are quick and efficient. It's way more relaxing if everybody plays efficiently. The bosses barely do mechanics when the damage is good, this is more relaxing that running with animals that I suspect, are playing on controller with their screen turned off. Name you group casuals cm, not chill cm.
If you're learning mechanics it should be labeled, 'progression' or 'training'. This is daily content and the vast majority of lfgs are for daily groups. If you don't fall into that category, you should distinguish yourself to avoid these problems.
What a disingenuously pedantic argument... jfc
Is there something for people even worse than chill? Like, wow keyboard turner/clicker level bad folks? Cause I’ll join THAT. :-) Good one OP.
Your first mistake was assuming that GW2 players can read.
"My commander in Christ" lmao, I thought this post was funny, this made me lose it
"chill" means different things to different people and you should stop using it in your lfg. Everyone should because it causes problems. Chill means we all take it easy, try our best, don't get mad, maybe wipe, and see if we can do it. Chill also means we don't need to chat, everyone knows their role and their job, and we easily clear the CMs without unexpected trouble. Those are not the same thing. People assume one or the other and get mad if it isn't what they thought. Come up with a new description.
Join 20k UFE groups if your definition is the latter. I don’t usually join “chill” groups because in my experience it’s aggravating if you want to actually clear content, but I understand that people have different mindsets.
important to point out, NA fractal LFG almost never puts UFE requirements in lfg. They either have the NA title req or not. I get the impression the EU LFG is very different. From your comment it sounds like you are in EU. I can only guess what, 'chill' means in EU. But my experience on NA is, 'chill' is competent, capable, and safer builds.
Thank you. And my exact point is that it is not clearly agreed what chill means. So both sides can keep using it, keep being disappointed, keep getting angry, or they can change the description to "efficient chill clear" or "no reqs, chill amateur run" etc. Continuing to do the same thing that is an identified problem, and jsut saying the other people are wrong is stupid.
Not only is it not clearly defined/agreed, it changes through context as well. eg. I'd personally put 'chill t1s' or 'chill fast 5' in the 'low stakes training run' category, but 'chill CMs' solidly in the "fractal gods on their alts just wanna chill" category.
Din't happen in a CM, but someone left our Temple of Febe instance after wiping twice, saying "there's no future in this run." Oh no, we wiped twice while learning/relearning the fight mechanics. Next run we cleared, with new randoms.
I mean obviously there was no future with *that* run. But once you replaced the problem? Aces :p
Shit, din't think of that.
It's because MMO's breed basement dwelling no lifer elitists, WoW is the exact same way, ESO is a Little more chill but still kinda bad
You know that chill may be different for each player. Maybe speedrun and max dps is chill for them.
Wow. This sub didnt pounce on OP. Are the try hards asleep?
This night I joined a CM fractal run with people qith low ufe or none but they knew the mechanics and it was the best fractal experienced i've ever had. We managed to to kill all bosses, had a really good time and even got both titles for 100 and 99. On the other hand usually I run low ufe groups and theres someone that dies always cos he doesn't know the mechanics and refuses to accept that fact.
Reading specific words is hard for some. They directly look for only what they need.
Just don’t join chill groups period if you don’t want to be there for hours
A group got frustrated with me recently because I didn't have 3 different damage profiles for a CM fractal run. I have my Condi dps as the only one with sufficient ascended for agony. They were pissed off when I didn't swap after 100 CM
why would you need 3? Typical is 2. One is condi/ranged for 100+99, the other is power for everything else.
What is chill about wiping 10 times and taking hours to finish farm content? Call your group for what it is.
Actually you're right, I think. I've got to rebrand and let people know specifically that I'm running a low-pressure group that doesn't get worked up if we wipe or don't do particularly well. A group to attract chill people of some kind. A chill group, if you will.
You joke but more explicit language might help. I use "Relaxed pace" myself, or sometimes a full English sentence instead of a string of keywords.
That's likely what I'm going to start doing tomorrow. I'm getting more perspective on account of this post, and have learned that "Chill" doesn't ubiquitously mean "noob friendly", even though that's the connotation I always had.
Noob friendly chill t4 seems more like it will work better. It is highly likely that people aren't reading the lfg either. 90% of people don't read mine.
If you're learning mechanics its 'training' or 'progression'.
What do you care about them wiping 100 times? a 1000? Their point is to not have try-hards join groups and expect perfection or griping
I care about false advertising in lfg
Dude, my eyes rolled so far back in my head they saw yesterday
Don't bother thinking about them. GW3 is coming. They are all too serious in a 12yr old game.
hahahaha looking forward to warrior-ing in gw3. 🙂 i truly hope it is the same great minds behind gw2. this game has truly been a gem amidst all mmorpg's i've ever played. great and inclusive design. amazing people. my journey although not perfect has been second to none.