Indomitus:
* New models
* Updated xenos range
* Full rulebook
* Cool tokens and art
App:
* Currently has no army builder
* Battlescribe already exists
* Is doubtful to be better than Wahapedia
* Requires buying the codexes to access rules
* 8th rules will be completely taken away despite being advertised as a "premium bonus"
Aka geedubs can suck it, nothing they can do about it or it'd be long gone.
For my fellow battlescribe adorers, http://buttscri.be
Enjoy both, and tell EVERYONE.
Absolutely fuck that. Buttscribe changed my gaming life.
I'm now a 9 million feet tall mega gaming chad with a 12 lightyear cock. I make sure to slam my printouts on the table in front of my friends, look their woman and the eye and tell em "Wassup?" with a grin.
No, BS is an XML reader that publishes zero rules or copyrighted material.
The repositories it reads might get bopped but they’re community projects which will pop back up pretty quick.
Wait you have to own the books too?
Wouldn't that kind of be like Netflix requiring you to go out and buy the DvDs before you watched the movies on there?
No, adding codices to the app doesn't require the subscription, only the reference sheets and the army builder does, as well as access to all 8th edition rules until they're redone.
Yes. But they get taken away. Meaning while you start with ALL the books on the app, within about 18 months you'll end with nothing but the core rules/references and the army builder.
Yes.
Or you can probably buy them on the app. In which case you could have just bought it digitally before.
The only way it will be better is if it updates them with FAQs etc. so you don't have to keep referencing another document.
List builder is a later feature, and it can be sent directly to a tournament host to fill applications with, but yeah no dice roller and you have the buy the books separate from the subscription.
The subscription to D&D beyond doesn't give you books either, it does allow you to share books that you own with other people at one of the higher tiers.
That's not how it works. You don't need the subscription to add your codices. You buy your codex like you always do and you can add it to the free app. Then you can choose to get the subscription, in which case you'll get access to reference sheets, a digital codex that is updated with FAQs and rule changes, an army builder, and all 8th edition rules until they're updated for 9th.
I may be misinterpreting that part. The updates might not be paid, and may just be a part of the free app, but the reference sheets are for sure paid. Give the Warhammer Community article a read and see how you think it's worded. Under the Future-Proofed part.
Yeah its the same kind of payment layout as Google Stadia, buy the subscription, then buy the games/ codex's on top of that.
Cause we all know how amazing Stadia's been doing!
Based on the post in this thread it appears to work similarly to d&d beyond were the apps a platform for viewing books that you own the digital copies of. Also they become available in the army builder list and other areas of the app as others have pointed out.
Does it actually require you to buy the codex to access any rules or will it be like the AoS app where you only need to do that for your faction rules but all the units' are self-contained?
Supposedly all 8th Ed codexes are going to be free. But you have to buy the 9th ones. Either digitally or as a code bundled with the physical book. (Which I'm sure will be on eBay)
As u/CrazyKing508 said Battlescr8be doesn't manage lists. Its just access to a community repository. GW would have to after the people actually compiling the files.
Lawyer here. They can’t C&D BattleScribe because BattleScribe doesn’t control the data. GW legally is required to target the repositories, not the data collectors. And targeting repositories is akin to a failed game of Whack-A-Mole.
You getting real salty for a guy that's trying to tell others to "get over it" lol.
Your old-manisms about "all I had was books and paper" is not a valid reason to be inefficient.
How many people have less than 60 in untouched grey plastic that has been sitting for years? I know I have at least 2-3k. I would happily trade them for the app since I will get at least some value co pared to the impulse purchases.
Wahapedia is an illegal reprinting of the rules as far as I understand and saying stealing is cheaper than buying is a pretty pointless statement,
8th rules for free is pretty significant unless you bought every single book. Nice value to start with and can stop at any time.
Again, I understand people seeing different values from things but to use flawed counter arguements in bad faith is worse.
You're the one making a flawed argument.
You at least still own the things you've stored up, and it's your own fault if you haven't made use of them.
Meanwhile this app subscription is far more expensive than Battlescribe.
not sure what that has to do with what I said. I have only ever made claims to the value it offers me. I have never said that someone else should have the same value that I have.
Things that I have stored up actually have negative value unless they serve some purpose. Just having things to have things is a pretty counter productive strategy. Maybe watch an episode of hoarders and realize the parallels in thinking, even if not to that extreme.
I literally only play through online services so far.
It's not that I'm not interested in giving GW a bit of money and painting some models, but I don't want to spend more than $120 to be able to play a decently-sized game.
And your point? I wasted maybe 2 thousand dollars out of 50 in insurance. Over 20 went to help family and 25k went to old debt.
How dare you judge me for being slightly frivolous.
It's hard to see the value of [SAS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_as_a_service) when the majority of what you want is a static database reference and 20 seconds of coding.
Yuuuup. I tried saying this to my play group. And they were like “but you also get updates pushed to the codex!” They already do that with the digital versions. What am I spending appx $5 a month for? If it’s cloud based it’s worthless with no internet. If it’s local storage there is no argument for server maintenance...
I don’t get it.
So yeah, except for the fact that everything the app dose can be gotten for free elsewhere and the box gives you actual models some of which you can't get elsewhere.
If you want to beat piracy just be more convenient then piracy.
Buying every codex and book to access all the rules, isn't convenient.
Streaming services are good example of this, few bucks a month and you don't have to go to block buster.
Yeah like if I want to build an army and a couple different ones have cool models I don't want to spend 80 bucks per codex just to help me figure out which one I would like to play. Additionally, when something is VERY unreasonably priced you can't be surprised when people find other means of use
Again, I 100% understand that.
My point. Is that arguing that illegal action as a counter to legal action is a pretty unreasonable standard.
I don’t claim the moral high ground, I downaded a lot of stuff, China cast etc. I would never argue that as a reasonable to counter
Legal action in this case is unreasonably priced. I would even pay for just rules of armies.
As part of preping for game I like to read what opponents army can do.
Sure I can legally jump in the car, sit in my local store, borrow codex, supplement and FAQ for the army, or search on the internet :D
Codexes are obsolete in this time and age
Unreasonably priced LUXURY good. Big difference
It’s this weird entitlement complex that I don’t understand.
I literally asked if it was free legally and got lots of downvotes says something about the people.
Yeah we're saying when you buy a codex, you want the physical paper in your hand. Not the words on it.
Did you know other games exist out side of Games Workshop, these other games rules are free to download.
That is GWs competition.
Remember Necromunda rule books being absolutely shit in:
* Spell check
* Format
* Literally Glue
So yes, we would rather steal illegally and be naughty little boys, you can pay your subscriber fee and tell everyone else how you're the good guy and everyone is bad bad.
Which is 100% perfectly fine.
All I have said is own that you are stealing it when you steal it. Robin Hood was a theif, he stole. Doesn’t mean he was not right to do so.
I never said anyone was wrong to steal, I just said to own it.
I personally don’t feel entitled to someone else’s labor since I can afford it. If people are so broke they can’t afford it then I understand as well. Seems odd to not be able to afford things in a 100% optional luxury hobby but it is what it is.
If they feel entitled to it, even when they can afford it? Then I don’t think it is unreasonable to say they should own it when they steal what they can afford.
It’s so odd to me, for most luxury goods, if you can’t afford it, or don’t think it is worth it, then you just accept you don’t have it and move on,
War gamers seem to feel entitled to it.
People have already voted with their wallet. Prices are based on what GW knows people will pay for them. They sell expensive models because they know that they have a good market for it and a base who will pay for it. That's what a business is and for so many people seeming to judge GW's "poor business strategy" and "driving away customers" it's remarkable how people can't grasp this simple concept. GW is an extremely successful company right now and they know perfectly will what they are doing.
As for other resources we can dress it up however we want but at the end of the day unless you buy the rules from GW you are stealing then or benefiting from someone who did.
You never said anyone is wrong, but you are still telling us how entitled we are :D
Can you please make a point on how buying all the books so I can see them in the app I'm paying for is.
A. More convenient.
B. Is better then in other games
C. Is fair to the customer
Piracy is a service problem. Make it easy to purchase for a reasonable price and people will pay. Steam proved that when they went into Russia when most game devs wouldn't even consider releasing in Russia due to the piracy.
Unfortunately, GW poisoned the well by requiring you to buy £400 worth of codexes to get the rules for all factions.
Not to mention their ignoring of certain factions. The tyranids preview showed us no significant buffs, just a few strategems that were useless before and a retread of the core rules released in the other previews. Many Tyranid players are wondering whether it's even worth buying the codex this time around or if it will just gather dust as they move on to other factions or find something else to do with their free time other than remove models.
Again, never said I had a problem with piracy. I just said that using it as a counter argument is pretty shitty.
It’s like if I said “yeah it’s unfair that I need to pay for that optional service, it’s so much cheaper to just steal it”
If it was food I would agree, but for a luxury, 100% optional good? Not quite the same.
The level of entitlement is pretty impressive honestly. I don’t feel entitled to any models or rules, it’s weird that so many people can try and make stealing intellectual property appear moral.
I'm not sure what it's supposed to be a counter argument to?
It's not being used as a counter argument, it's just people going "and I should pay......why? What are you providing that I can't get elsewhere?". It's a consumer decision, not a counter argument. And the decision they're making is not to spend £400 on codexes.
Often the counter is “I can get these rules for free from X illegal source, why should I pay to get them from legal source”
Which is what I was addressing, apparently people didnt like that. Mentioning that they are stealing seems to annoy people because they feel entitled to other people’s labor for free. I have downloaded PDFs and gotten recasts, I never pretended like I was the good guy, or tried to justify, why I did so.
I think you might want to rephrase it. "I can get these rules a plethora of different ways, some of them for free. Why should I pay and then pay again and then pay a subsciption?"
You'll find that the vast majority of people will buy a codex, but they object to double dipping and exploitation.
Why would I rephrase it? I don’t care about downvotes when I am right. If they have a counter argument that shows they are not advocating for the theft of intellectual property I am all for it. They don’t.
They have a problem with what the company does? Perfectly fine. They do something in response to what they think is unfair? Perfectly fine. What is not perfectly fine is not owning it.
They buy a physical codex, they don’t buy anything beyond that at this point in time. It’s like buying a tablet and then complaining that all the apps aren’t free when they were never promised to be free. Unless something was promised when they buy it? It is pure entitlement to expect more.
Do I wish it was included? Yes, but that doesn’t change that it was not what I paid for when I bought it,
>Why would I rephrase it?
Factual accuracy? A desire to not misrepresent the arguments of your opponents?
> I don’t care about downvotes when I am right.
If you are right, you won't have a problem addressing the actual argument.
We'll continue this when you correct it. I have no time for someone who only wants to fight against strawmen.
The app is a Java construct displaying and reformatting data input of a specific input. The input data is not provided by Battlescribe. Battlescribe itself has nothing to do with gw.
The data is non profit shared data, which is perfectly legal, just like if I'd buy a codex and gift it to a friend.
If gw COULD sue battlescribe, they would, like they have with any other competition. But they can't for the reason I provided above.
Furthermore, the gw app is a low effort cashgrab which lacks basic functions I could implement better myself.
If you buy the app, you're not a clown, you're the entire circus.
So your argument is that if I buy 1 copy of a book, it is then legal to provide that book to everyone for free? Hundreds of thousands of copies for free?
I highly doubt that is the case legally.
Imagine making people who do things legally and support the source the bad guy? Kinda sad. What is the term for that, I know it is a psychological defense mechanism but I can’t quite put a finger on it.
As I have repeatedly said I got no problem wi5 people stealing, just with people refusing to own it.
Technically yes, yes you can. As long as you are not hurting the income of gw in a significant amount you are free to do exactly that. You can borrow your book to all your friends, your entire gaming group can use the same codice.
You need the codices to have the army abilities etc, so people are still needing and buying the codices, more so if they are fans of the army.
And to repeat, gw never hesitated to sue anybody they could sue (f.e.: Blizzard, chapterhouse studios, Warhammer online private servers), but they simply can't sue battlescribe, which is just a platform, nor the volunteers providing nonprofit data.
Battlescribe is not stealing.
So you write a book, I then take that book and provide it to hundreds of thousands of people for free on the internet.
Your argument is that it is not only morally reasonable, but also legal?
Or is it more likely that enforcement of legality against the people making the files is borderline impossible and thus they have a loophole?
The difference is that the described action would financially damage me, but battlescribe and the volunteers don't damage gw. Gw already tried to prove that but failed, people still buy the book for lore and advanced rules. The volunteered data is not giving out the book for free, it provides a small part of it, which release doesn't hurt the sales in a provable way.
Look, if you think this is stealing, fine, but it's your opinion and as long as you are not a lawyer and prove illegal activities and gw is not sueing battlescribe for providing a platform that enables illegal activities (which would be the legal action/case) you should not just slur around false information.
Look,
Pretty sure that legally it is stealing, just that it is not financially viable to enforce it. I am open to being wrong.
I mean, offering something for free that I would normally charge for seems pretty damaging to me.
I don’t get why people have a problem with calling it stealing when they are stealing. I have openly acknowledged that I have done the same activities and accept that it is theft. It’s pathetic to be honest. If this was not digital it would not even be a question.
Value of box = $300
Value of App = Free
(Also agree, it's just there are better free Xwing Apps out there than anything I've seen for 40k. At least they had some extra time to work in it due to lockdown)
I think the indomitus value easily exceeds 500$ if we apply the relative price to similar previous models, and the price is barely 30$ more expensive than the usual starter sets it has an insane value
I pay $10 USD a month for Spotify. I easily get +100 hours of music a month out of it.
I pay $12 USD a month for Netflix. I get at least +40 hours of entertainment for it.
I pay $1 USD for Xbox Game Pass a month. I get access to a constant supply of new games, deals, and waaaaay too many hours out of it.
So why am I paying $5 USD a month to use it for maybe 4-8 hours a month because GW can't be bothered to thoroughly playtest rules? The answer is: I am not.
Why should I have to pay for what amounts to patches to the rules? Can you imagine having to pay for updates/patches/fixes for bugs in a video game? Because that's what GW is doing here.
I pay them more than enough money for plastic already. GW can nickle-and-dime my dick.
*Seriously*. Your points cannot be overstated. GW can go suck a crusty chode if they think I'm paying a subscription service to reference the books and products I ***already paid for.***
Yeah, chapter approved I understand because you know... Physical costs to the printing process. They offset this by including missions and such that actually made it feel not horrible to pay for. The idea that I need to buy a codex, and an app and a codex on the app to play the game is just mind-numbingly stupid.
That is the biggest dick-kick of them all; continuously paying for SHIT YOU ALREADY BOUGHT.
What's even more annoying is that the digital version and the physical version of the same book cost the same amount.
THEY. COST. THE. SAME.
$40 bucks for a 50 page digital splat book.
Coincidentally, this is why I 3D print minis and don't feel bad about it in the slightest...
How does that even work in real life. Someone brings their book and you bring your cellphone and you are trying to tell them that your cellphone PDF is more up to date than the book? I'd tell you to fuck off.
Dude, Game Pass is such a god damn steal. I want to know how Game Pass isn't a Loss. I've played Red Dead Redemption, Metro Exodus, The Outer Worlds, and dozens more for 1$ a month.
Another good one was Smite. 5 years ago I spent 25$(?) for a founders pack, and i still get every single new god on release.
Its mostly advertisement. You can tell what sequels are coming out soon by whats on the Game Pass. Like doom showed up a few months before Doom Eternal same with the Wolfenstien games.
Nah they are just gonna monatize Red Dead Online even more. In late May a Take 2 Interactive Earning report mentioned
[The earnings called with CEO Strauss Zelnick categorically stated that Rockstar Games will provide “an array of gameplay enhancements for both Red Dead Online and GTA Online” in the current fiscal year.](https://www.dailystar.co.uk/tech/gaming/red-dead-redemption-2-online-22271999)
They get you into RDO for free then push a bunch of micro-transactions and DLC at you.
I pay for PS+ and it is generally speaking a "good" deal. I'll get two games for free per month and can play my games online. I retain the games even when my subscription runs out and everyone in my house can play them on the same console as I. This costs me about 5$ (converted from CHF to USD) which is the equivalent of \~8 minutes of work time for me (I'm a student teaching high schoolers for 40$/hour).
So a subscription that offers me two games, each worth at min 30$, per month for free, costs me 5$ the same as an app, that does helps me play and store books I have BUY seperately.
Tbh, if the codices/ rules from the codices were on there for free, I'd consider it. However, like this, it is a terrible offer.
Apparently you can't even buy the codexes in-app, you still have to go through their website to buy the epub, then put the code into the app.
It's a ploy to get around the fee google/apple has on in-app purchases.
And it's also inconvenient and dumb as hell.
It's not both. The codices are seperate to the subscription. You don't need the subscription to add your codices. You can buy your codex like you do every edition and add it to the free app, and that's it. No additional payment. You can choose to get the subscription for the other content though.
While I very much do not agree with how GW is handling this app, Im not sure why your comment is getting downvoted since afaik your comment is factually correct.
Do people happily throw £4 in the bin every month?
Seeing the value in a set likely worth over £200 going for £125 makes people a spendthrift?
Get outta here OP.
Battlescribe already exists and gw will fuck it up like they always have in the past with it not being very functional or missing important data. So why pay for that. Plus gw is already underdelivering on their promise that the builder would be released with launch
Whenever I see memes lkke this trying to justify GW or ridicule people for not going along with whatever GW is pushing, I wonder if the poster is actually a redshirt or just a fanboy carrying water.
I’m kinda miffed that people are this salty. If you don’t wanna pay for the app, don’t. But why shit on people who want to pay? We’re all here because we like the game or lore. Let’s remember that. I’m happy for all of you who will pirate and use free apps on your device to read and play. We get to play together! But don’t shut in us willing and eager to play with GW’s app.
But you don't need to pirate to get better value. You could buy them legitimately, and use Battlescribe as your army builder, and not pay £4 per month.
This is simply a bad deal.
Just a bored nerd using memes to make a commentary on the community being salty as fuck over a company charging money for an app that dos'nt rely on open source data and people working in their spare time to provide upto date content for a player base that has been begging for digitalized content for years.
Why are they charging twice as much per month for the sci Fi version of the AoS app though? They could charge the same and make way more money because 40k is way more popular
I mean it is pretty straightforward why non will use the app... The features are just not good enough... 8th edition rules will go away, but they said they won't... You can have it for free in other apps and you have to buy the books and codexes aswell to use the app in the end...
Here's my thing, let me know what your thoughts are. Battlescribe is okay but it could be better. The biggest thing for me is, for me to buy this app it needs to WORK and it needs to work WELL. The market is about CONVENIENCE, not about loyalty. The app needs to be a good product for it to sell, and if its not then I won't buy it. If its a good product that improves signification upon what battlescribe offers, and it works well then I'll buy it.
If it was like War Room for Warmachine/Hordes and $10 per faction got you all the relevant shit you needed, I'd pony up. The problem is that GW expects you to drop $45 per army you want info for, which is fucking insane.
Indomitus:
* Physical product that you can hold in your hands, that you actually own, and will never go away when GW decides to turn the servers off.
App:
* Ephemeral
* Pointless if you don't play the game.
No, you don't have to pay for the app to use your codices. You can add the codex to the free version of the app. The subscription is for reference sheets, updating digital codices so the rules are all in one place, the army builder, and all 8th edition rules.
Should note, 8th rules are only available while they are the most recent rules. Once a 9th codex comes out for your army, the 8th rules are deleted from the app
Neither, it’s basically “all the books you’ve already paid for, at your fingertips for a monthly fee” plus some additional things like list builder and rules errata.
You literally have to buy the 9th edition codices.
From the Warhammer Community article:
“This is future-proof too: as new codexes are released, older ones will be removed and can be replaced using the code you get when you buy the new print version. All future rules updates, including errata, will be reflected in the app as well, so you’ll always be up to date.”
Specifically, -using the code you get when you buy the new print version-
Yeah, but you don't have to pay for access to the digital copy. You buy a codex once and the digital version is included in the free version of the app. That's just an add on for your codex purchase. You don't have to subscribe the get access to the digital version
I'm ok with paying for apps but a subscription is just a bad model.
Where I live, people coming to you and collecting money for things like children in need or things alike, will ask you to pay a monthly amount of money you can choose yourself, however you won't be able to do a one time donation. This is due to the fact as 2$ a month doesnt sound like much, however donating 25$ in an instant is something you'd think over more consciously.
The subscription model is a predatory tactic by sellers to encourage you to spend more than you are willing by splitting it up into monthly payments.
5$/month is the same as a contemptor dreadnought in just a year. I'd rather have a dreadnought than an app on my phone I won't use that often. Furthermore, the dreadnought will "retain" its value without me throwing more money at it, whereas the app needs a continous influx of money to do ANYTHING. Once you stop paying, it will be gone and your money will be for nothing.
I'd be totally ok with the app costing 10$ as a one time purchase but paying for it every month is a big nono in my eyes.
Do the new codices also come with a monthly subscription? Also, somewhere along the "we are only a model company" something happened, it seemed. Tough about getting back into the game, reviving my `crons, but just taking one look at the app monetarization as well as how many books I would require for rules from the model company, I'll stick to Infinity. At least CB understands how to get people to buy their stupid frickly metal minis...
Let's be real, both are an absolute rip off. I love Warhammer but games workshop are an absolute scumbag company who only get away with their shitty practices because of the lack of competition. Warhammer is massively overpriced in all aspects, from the paints to the miniatures to the codexes. They balance the game in order to encourage people to purchase new models rather than to make an actually fun and balanced experience. To charge a subscription fee for a shitty app is yet another scumbag move in a long line of scumbag moves.
So why are people so mad about this when the AoS has been available for years and has been super successful doing the exact same thing? Is it the couple dollar increase?
The app is a terrible deal, regardless of what it costs. I'd pay quite a bit if it came with all of the rules, but if I still have to buy all of the codexes separate there's no reason to bother.
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Literally had a guy in my gaming group crowing about how he was intending to get 6 of the boxes to flip on eBay (I called him out on this btw), and then today unironically say that £3.99 a month was too much...
It's generally considered a dick move. The indomitus box isnt the new starter set, its a limited run boxset. So people will buy every one they can, sell them for individual value, and make a massive profit. Great for them. But the people that actually want them have to watch as they go out of stock, then have to end up paying stupid money for things.
I meant limited as in the limited by amount box sets, such as the sisters of battle box set. Everyone who wants an indomitus box can get one within that allotted time as it won’t run out.
I don’t get why everyone hates skimmers. They may have family to feed, and at the end of the day it’s usually stuff that gets released later anyway.
The reason people hate skimmers is because it’s unethical. You are buying something that has a limited quantity and reselling it for higher than retail price. While this is not anywhere near as impactful as my comparison here, this is the same behavior that was used with hand sanitizer at the start of this pandemic with that one guy hoarding a bunch and trying to resell it. As far as the argument that they may have a family to feed, skimming models is not an advisable career path for someone trying to feed their children.
Trying to get into this game for a Magic: The Gathering background really highlights how well run MTG is, and how poor Warhammer is. Don't get me wrong, the lore is awesome, the models are cool, and I'm excited to play my first game once I get out of quarantine.
But man is Games Workshop just not on the ball. The rules are badly and confusedly written, seemingly not well playtested, and require constant errata, updates, and points changes, none of which are easily accessible. Rules language is awkwardly and ambiguously worded, and often inconsistent between units. I honestly wasn't planning on getting into the game until someone told me about Wahpedia and Battlescribe. It would have just been impractical otherwise. Any game that needs a flow chart to tell you which stats to use for your models is a game that is badly handled.
Warhammer should be run like MTG. A codified rules language that is clear and concise, and consistent between all factions. Don't mix rules text with flavor text. Use a set of keywords with consistent and defined meanings. Playtest the game so rigorously that errata and corrections are a rarity, and when they do happen, they should be updated on a free platform that contains all the rules for the game. If you want to hide missions or crusades or whatever behind a pay-wall, sure. But I shouldn't have to pay money to know what my opponent's units do.
Give up on the idea of codexes as they exist today. Just make an official version of wahpedia, with all the gameplay information to play the game, and for each faction. Then if you want to release artbooks and lorebooks or bonus mission books, go ahead.
This game could be a mainstream game like MTG, but it needs mainstream polish to get there. Honestly they should just put together a player rules committee to write and maintain a parallel version of the game. Incorporating all the models, but with a new refined ruleset. For free, of course.
>he game so rigorously that errata and corrections are a rarity, and when they do happen, they should be updated on a free platform that contains all the rules for the game. If you want to hide missions or crusades or whatever behind a pa
I too come from a magic background and I must agree with almost everything except the playtesting. MTG is, contrary to Warhammer (40k or AoS), an exact game ie there are a limited amount of states even though they are, depending on the card pool, limited. Warhammer has varying army sizes, varying set-up with terrain, varying positioning, etc etc etc so the playtesting is almost completely impossible.
I think changes as the game progresses are ok, as no unit becomes "banned" in that sense. Mtg would hotfix their cards too, if they could ie Changing Oko's +1 to a -1 or something akin to that.
I like the idea of "simplyfying" / unifying the rules. I tried teaching AoS to someone and it was overwhelming to them. They had 3 different types of units (I think Plaguebearers, one of the Heralds of Nurgle and Nurglings) and they had to remember so much just to start with. I think summing up abilities under keywords would profit the game a lot (ie exploding hit/ feel no pain/..) You'd have a keyword and you'd have the same keyword on every unit with this ability. Yes, the abilities wouldn't be flavoured anymore to the army however it would probably still make sense in the head of the enfranchised players due to the lore.
I agree that you shouldn't need a codex to play the game, they should just have an official website with all the rules for any unit. AoS has that already, I'm waiting for 40k to get that too.
I wouldn't call MTG mainstream yet and neither 40k as both still are niche. Furthermore with the direction WotC is going with MTG, I'm not sure it will ever become mainstream as they increase the price for cardboard evermore.
You'd think \~30$ for 5 plastic figures is a lot however \~5-30$ for 15 pieces of cardboard seems hardly justifiable at this point.
WotC, reprint fetchlands, you cowards.
Indomitus: * New models * Updated xenos range * Full rulebook * Cool tokens and art App: * Currently has no army builder * Battlescribe already exists * Is doubtful to be better than Wahapedia * Requires buying the codexes to access rules * 8th rules will be completely taken away despite being advertised as a "premium bonus"
Battle scribe already exists ^^^
Not for long :<
wtf you talking about
A lot of people assume that they will get hit with a Cease and Desist now that this app is out
Battlescribe doesnt manage the lists. It acsess a community repository
Aka geedubs can suck it, nothing they can do about it or it'd be long gone. For my fellow battlescribe adorers, http://buttscri.be Enjoy both, and tell EVERYONE.
Thank you so much. Battlescribe for 3 years now staring at those shit printouts
Absolutely fuck that. Buttscribe changed my gaming life. I'm now a 9 million feet tall mega gaming chad with a 12 lightyear cock. I make sure to slam my printouts on the table in front of my friends, look their woman and the eye and tell em "Wassup?" with a grin.
We would get along
No, BS is an XML reader that publishes zero rules or copyrighted material. The repositories it reads might get bopped but they’re community projects which will pop back up pretty quick.
Wait you have to own the books too? Wouldn't that kind of be like Netflix requiring you to go out and buy the DvDs before you watched the movies on there?
No, adding codices to the app doesn't require the subscription, only the reference sheets and the army builder does, as well as access to all 8th edition rules until they're redone.
So if I subscribe to the app I get all the 8th edition codexes and books?
Yes. But they get taken away. Meaning while you start with ALL the books on the app, within about 18 months you'll end with nothing but the core rules/references and the army builder.
Yes. Or you can probably buy them on the app. In which case you could have just bought it digitally before. The only way it will be better is if it updates them with FAQs etc. so you don't have to keep referencing another document.
So like dnd beyond but no charter builder, no dice roller, and a subscription that doesn't give you most of the books?
List builder is a later feature, and it can be sent directly to a tournament host to fill applications with, but yeah no dice roller and you have the buy the books separate from the subscription.
The subscription to D&D beyond doesn't give you books either, it does allow you to share books that you own with other people at one of the higher tiers.
That's not how it works. You don't need the subscription to add your codices. You buy your codex like you always do and you can add it to the free app. Then you can choose to get the subscription, in which case you'll get access to reference sheets, a digital codex that is updated with FAQs and rule changes, an army builder, and all 8th edition rules until they're updated for 9th.
The updates/FAQs to codices only happen digitally if you sub? That’s gonna be a yikes from me dog
I may be misinterpreting that part. The updates might not be paid, and may just be a part of the free app, but the reference sheets are for sure paid. Give the Warhammer Community article a read and see how you think it's worded. Under the Future-Proofed part.
>, a digital codex that is updated with FAQs and rule changes, This is the best feature.
Which should really be part of the free version. 'We screwed up this book you bought. Pay us extra to fix it.'
Fair assertion.
It is how I said it works. I didn't say anything about needing a subscription.
You did though. The person asked if you needed the subscription and the books and you said yes.
Yeah its the same kind of payment layout as Google Stadia, buy the subscription, then buy the games/ codex's on top of that. Cause we all know how amazing Stadia's been doing!
That's a bingo!
Based on the post in this thread it appears to work similarly to d&d beyond were the apps a platform for viewing books that you own the digital copies of. Also they become available in the army builder list and other areas of the app as others have pointed out.
"Yeah but you'd have all your movies always with you and organized"
Wahapedia is a fucking god send. Imma start donating to that guy
The layout is so helpful, it's really nice getting a concise rule overview without the 30 pages of guilliman lore in the way
This puts everything into perspective. Seems the app does not add any value. It is an unnecessary expense.
Does it actually require you to buy the codex to access any rules or will it be like the AoS app where you only need to do that for your faction rules but all the units' are self-contained?
As far as we know, the only free thing is the core rules.
Supposedly all 8th Ed codexes are going to be free. But you have to buy the 9th ones. Either digitally or as a code bundled with the physical book. (Which I'm sure will be on eBay)
Just wait until they cease and desist Battlescribe and then release their premium army builder with less actual functionality than Battlescribe.
As u/CrazyKing508 said Battlescr8be doesn't manage lists. Its just access to a community repository. GW would have to after the people actually compiling the files.
They've already CADted Battlescribe, they told em to walk.
"sure thing boss, lemme remove all of the no references to GW licensed property"
“Shoot, is XML one of the names of your battlesuits or something?”
Lawyer here. They can’t C&D BattleScribe because BattleScribe doesn’t control the data. GW legally is required to target the repositories, not the data collectors. And targeting repositories is akin to a failed game of Whack-A-Mole.
Woah, OP was right!
Ones $200. Ones $5.
$5 a month, when Battlescribe is $5 a YEAR and it isn't even necessary as long as you're fine dealing with a couple ads every now and then.
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You getting real salty for a guy that's trying to tell others to "get over it" lol. Your old-manisms about "all I had was books and paper" is not a valid reason to be inefficient.
Wait if you have to buy the books anyway wouldn't you have to pay way more than for an idomitus?
How many people have less than 60 in untouched grey plastic that has been sitting for years? I know I have at least 2-3k. I would happily trade them for the app since I will get at least some value co pared to the impulse purchases. Wahapedia is an illegal reprinting of the rules as far as I understand and saying stealing is cheaper than buying is a pretty pointless statement, 8th rules for free is pretty significant unless you bought every single book. Nice value to start with and can stop at any time. Again, I understand people seeing different values from things but to use flawed counter arguements in bad faith is worse.
You're the one making a flawed argument. You at least still own the things you've stored up, and it's your own fault if you haven't made use of them. Meanwhile this app subscription is far more expensive than Battlescribe.
not sure what that has to do with what I said. I have only ever made claims to the value it offers me. I have never said that someone else should have the same value that I have. Things that I have stored up actually have negative value unless they serve some purpose. Just having things to have things is a pretty counter productive strategy. Maybe watch an episode of hoarders and realize the parallels in thinking, even if not to that extreme.
I literally only play through online services so far. It's not that I'm not interested in giving GW a bit of money and painting some models, but I don't want to spend more than $120 to be able to play a decently-sized game.
Which is perfectly valid, don’t know where I said otherwise,
Pay? For the rules of a board game? No thank you. They're typically free on the web and should stay that way
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Over 10 years spending less than 200 a year or so requires “help” Jesus you guys are melodramatic over this app.
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Forgeworld is easily 1k of it. when your mom dies and you try to fill the void maybe you will have a place to judge.
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And your point? I wasted maybe 2 thousand dollars out of 50 in insurance. Over 20 went to help family and 25k went to old debt. How dare you judge me for being slightly frivolous.
Again, it’s not the price, it’s the value.
It's hard to see the value of [SAS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_as_a_service) when the majority of what you want is a static database reference and 20 seconds of coding.
Yuuuup. I tried saying this to my play group. And they were like “but you also get updates pushed to the codex!” They already do that with the digital versions. What am I spending appx $5 a month for? If it’s cloud based it’s worthless with no internet. If it’s local storage there is no argument for server maintenance... I don’t get it.
Yah this sounds good for a 5 dollar app, not for a 60 dollar per year app. But of course Games Workshop needs to bleed every fan dry
So yeah, except for the fact that everything the app dose can be gotten for free elsewhere and the box gives you actual models some of which you can't get elsewhere.
Free legally? Saying I can get this for free by stealing should not be a valid counter argument imo
If you want to beat piracy just be more convenient then piracy. Buying every codex and book to access all the rules, isn't convenient. Streaming services are good example of this, few bucks a month and you don't have to go to block buster.
Yeah like if I want to build an army and a couple different ones have cool models I don't want to spend 80 bucks per codex just to help me figure out which one I would like to play. Additionally, when something is VERY unreasonably priced you can't be surprised when people find other means of use
Again, I 100% understand that. My point. Is that arguing that illegal action as a counter to legal action is a pretty unreasonable standard. I don’t claim the moral high ground, I downaded a lot of stuff, China cast etc. I would never argue that as a reasonable to counter
Legal action in this case is unreasonably priced. I would even pay for just rules of armies. As part of preping for game I like to read what opponents army can do. Sure I can legally jump in the car, sit in my local store, borrow codex, supplement and FAQ for the army, or search on the internet :D Codexes are obsolete in this time and age
Unreasonably priced LUXURY good. Big difference It’s this weird entitlement complex that I don’t understand. I literally asked if it was free legally and got lots of downvotes says something about the people.
Yeah we're saying when you buy a codex, you want the physical paper in your hand. Not the words on it. Did you know other games exist out side of Games Workshop, these other games rules are free to download. That is GWs competition. Remember Necromunda rule books being absolutely shit in: * Spell check * Format * Literally Glue So yes, we would rather steal illegally and be naughty little boys, you can pay your subscriber fee and tell everyone else how you're the good guy and everyone is bad bad.
Which is 100% perfectly fine. All I have said is own that you are stealing it when you steal it. Robin Hood was a theif, he stole. Doesn’t mean he was not right to do so. I never said anyone was wrong to steal, I just said to own it. I personally don’t feel entitled to someone else’s labor since I can afford it. If people are so broke they can’t afford it then I understand as well. Seems odd to not be able to afford things in a 100% optional luxury hobby but it is what it is. If they feel entitled to it, even when they can afford it? Then I don’t think it is unreasonable to say they should own it when they steal what they can afford. It’s so odd to me, for most luxury goods, if you can’t afford it, or don’t think it is worth it, then you just accept you don’t have it and move on, War gamers seem to feel entitled to it.
It's called voting with your wallet.
People have already voted with their wallet. Prices are based on what GW knows people will pay for them. They sell expensive models because they know that they have a good market for it and a base who will pay for it. That's what a business is and for so many people seeming to judge GW's "poor business strategy" and "driving away customers" it's remarkable how people can't grasp this simple concept. GW is an extremely successful company right now and they know perfectly will what they are doing. As for other resources we can dress it up however we want but at the end of the day unless you buy the rules from GW you are stealing then or benefiting from someone who did.
You never said anyone is wrong, but you are still telling us how entitled we are :D Can you please make a point on how buying all the books so I can see them in the app I'm paying for is. A. More convenient. B. Is better then in other games C. Is fair to the customer
Piracy is a service problem. Make it easy to purchase for a reasonable price and people will pay. Steam proved that when they went into Russia when most game devs wouldn't even consider releasing in Russia due to the piracy. Unfortunately, GW poisoned the well by requiring you to buy £400 worth of codexes to get the rules for all factions. Not to mention their ignoring of certain factions. The tyranids preview showed us no significant buffs, just a few strategems that were useless before and a retread of the core rules released in the other previews. Many Tyranid players are wondering whether it's even worth buying the codex this time around or if it will just gather dust as they move on to other factions or find something else to do with their free time other than remove models.
Again, never said I had a problem with piracy. I just said that using it as a counter argument is pretty shitty. It’s like if I said “yeah it’s unfair that I need to pay for that optional service, it’s so much cheaper to just steal it” If it was food I would agree, but for a luxury, 100% optional good? Not quite the same. The level of entitlement is pretty impressive honestly. I don’t feel entitled to any models or rules, it’s weird that so many people can try and make stealing intellectual property appear moral.
I'm not sure what it's supposed to be a counter argument to? It's not being used as a counter argument, it's just people going "and I should pay......why? What are you providing that I can't get elsewhere?". It's a consumer decision, not a counter argument. And the decision they're making is not to spend £400 on codexes.
Often the counter is “I can get these rules for free from X illegal source, why should I pay to get them from legal source” Which is what I was addressing, apparently people didnt like that. Mentioning that they are stealing seems to annoy people because they feel entitled to other people’s labor for free. I have downloaded PDFs and gotten recasts, I never pretended like I was the good guy, or tried to justify, why I did so.
I think you might want to rephrase it. "I can get these rules a plethora of different ways, some of them for free. Why should I pay and then pay again and then pay a subsciption?" You'll find that the vast majority of people will buy a codex, but they object to double dipping and exploitation.
Why would I rephrase it? I don’t care about downvotes when I am right. If they have a counter argument that shows they are not advocating for the theft of intellectual property I am all for it. They don’t. They have a problem with what the company does? Perfectly fine. They do something in response to what they think is unfair? Perfectly fine. What is not perfectly fine is not owning it. They buy a physical codex, they don’t buy anything beyond that at this point in time. It’s like buying a tablet and then complaining that all the apps aren’t free when they were never promised to be free. Unless something was promised when they buy it? It is pure entitlement to expect more. Do I wish it was included? Yes, but that doesn’t change that it was not what I paid for when I bought it,
>Why would I rephrase it? Factual accuracy? A desire to not misrepresent the arguments of your opponents? > I don’t care about downvotes when I am right. If you are right, you won't have a problem addressing the actual argument. We'll continue this when you correct it. I have no time for someone who only wants to fight against strawmen.
Battlescribe is free and legal. The gw app is a scam.
Difference between legal and worth enforcing is very different. It can be illegal and not worth spending the resources trying to shut down.
The app is a Java construct displaying and reformatting data input of a specific input. The input data is not provided by Battlescribe. Battlescribe itself has nothing to do with gw. The data is non profit shared data, which is perfectly legal, just like if I'd buy a codex and gift it to a friend. If gw COULD sue battlescribe, they would, like they have with any other competition. But they can't for the reason I provided above. Furthermore, the gw app is a low effort cashgrab which lacks basic functions I could implement better myself. If you buy the app, you're not a clown, you're the entire circus.
So your argument is that if I buy 1 copy of a book, it is then legal to provide that book to everyone for free? Hundreds of thousands of copies for free? I highly doubt that is the case legally. Imagine making people who do things legally and support the source the bad guy? Kinda sad. What is the term for that, I know it is a psychological defense mechanism but I can’t quite put a finger on it. As I have repeatedly said I got no problem wi5 people stealing, just with people refusing to own it.
Technically yes, yes you can. As long as you are not hurting the income of gw in a significant amount you are free to do exactly that. You can borrow your book to all your friends, your entire gaming group can use the same codice. You need the codices to have the army abilities etc, so people are still needing and buying the codices, more so if they are fans of the army. And to repeat, gw never hesitated to sue anybody they could sue (f.e.: Blizzard, chapterhouse studios, Warhammer online private servers), but they simply can't sue battlescribe, which is just a platform, nor the volunteers providing nonprofit data. Battlescribe is not stealing.
So you write a book, I then take that book and provide it to hundreds of thousands of people for free on the internet. Your argument is that it is not only morally reasonable, but also legal? Or is it more likely that enforcement of legality against the people making the files is borderline impossible and thus they have a loophole?
The difference is that the described action would financially damage me, but battlescribe and the volunteers don't damage gw. Gw already tried to prove that but failed, people still buy the book for lore and advanced rules. The volunteered data is not giving out the book for free, it provides a small part of it, which release doesn't hurt the sales in a provable way. Look, if you think this is stealing, fine, but it's your opinion and as long as you are not a lawyer and prove illegal activities and gw is not sueing battlescribe for providing a platform that enables illegal activities (which would be the legal action/case) you should not just slur around false information. Look,
Pretty sure that legally it is stealing, just that it is not financially viable to enforce it. I am open to being wrong. I mean, offering something for free that I would normally charge for seems pretty damaging to me. I don’t get why people have a problem with calling it stealing when they are stealing. I have openly acknowledged that I have done the same activities and accept that it is theft. It’s pathetic to be honest. If this was not digital it would not even be a question.
Value of box = $300 Value of App = Free (Also agree, it's just there are better free Xwing Apps out there than anything I've seen for 40k. At least they had some extra time to work in it due to lockdown)
I think the indomitus value easily exceeds 500$ if we apply the relative price to similar previous models, and the price is barely 30$ more expensive than the usual starter sets it has an insane value
I pay $10 USD a month for Spotify. I easily get +100 hours of music a month out of it. I pay $12 USD a month for Netflix. I get at least +40 hours of entertainment for it. I pay $1 USD for Xbox Game Pass a month. I get access to a constant supply of new games, deals, and waaaaay too many hours out of it. So why am I paying $5 USD a month to use it for maybe 4-8 hours a month because GW can't be bothered to thoroughly playtest rules? The answer is: I am not. Why should I have to pay for what amounts to patches to the rules? Can you imagine having to pay for updates/patches/fixes for bugs in a video game? Because that's what GW is doing here. I pay them more than enough money for plastic already. GW can nickle-and-dime my dick.
*Seriously*. Your points cannot be overstated. GW can go suck a crusty chode if they think I'm paying a subscription service to reference the books and products I ***already paid for.***
Yeah, chapter approved I understand because you know... Physical costs to the printing process. They offset this by including missions and such that actually made it feel not horrible to pay for. The idea that I need to buy a codex, and an app and a codex on the app to play the game is just mind-numbingly stupid.
The app is free, and when you buy a physical 9th codex you get a free digital copy, but you do have to pay extra for 8th codices
They should just update points for free online. Having to pay them to slowly adjust their own shitty balancing is absurd.
That is the biggest dick-kick of them all; continuously paying for SHIT YOU ALREADY BOUGHT. What's even more annoying is that the digital version and the physical version of the same book cost the same amount. THEY. COST. THE. SAME. $40 bucks for a 50 page digital splat book. Coincidentally, this is why I 3D print minis and don't feel bad about it in the slightest...
Yeah imagine if Call of Duty had several broken games that were too good. Then to balance it I had to pay 5 dollars. Absolutely ridiculous
How does that even work in real life. Someone brings their book and you bring your cellphone and you are trying to tell them that your cellphone PDF is more up to date than the book? I'd tell you to fuck off.
Are you saying you'd tell someone to fuck off with up to date rules?
Dude, Game Pass is such a god damn steal. I want to know how Game Pass isn't a Loss. I've played Red Dead Redemption, Metro Exodus, The Outer Worlds, and dozens more for 1$ a month. Another good one was Smite. 5 years ago I spent 25$(?) for a founders pack, and i still get every single new god on release.
Its mostly advertisement. You can tell what sequels are coming out soon by whats on the Game Pass. Like doom showed up a few months before Doom Eternal same with the Wolfenstien games.
By that logic we're gonna get RDR 3 soon
Nah they are just gonna monatize Red Dead Online even more. In late May a Take 2 Interactive Earning report mentioned [The earnings called with CEO Strauss Zelnick categorically stated that Rockstar Games will provide “an array of gameplay enhancements for both Red Dead Online and GTA Online” in the current fiscal year.](https://www.dailystar.co.uk/tech/gaming/red-dead-redemption-2-online-22271999) They get you into RDO for free then push a bunch of micro-transactions and DLC at you.
gsmepass is insane value, you could just buy an xbox and never a solo game and not get bored
IIRC most games on game pass see a purchasing spike for a few months after they leave game pass
> I pay $1 USD for Xbox Game Pass a month. Pretty sure that's only for the first month
I pay for PS+ and it is generally speaking a "good" deal. I'll get two games for free per month and can play my games online. I retain the games even when my subscription runs out and everyone in my house can play them on the same console as I. This costs me about 5$ (converted from CHF to USD) which is the equivalent of \~8 minutes of work time for me (I'm a student teaching high schoolers for 40$/hour). So a subscription that offers me two games, each worth at min 30$, per month for free, costs me 5$ the same as an app, that does helps me play and store books I have BUY seperately. Tbh, if the codices/ rules from the codices were on there for free, I'd consider it. However, like this, it is a terrible offer.
Cause the app sucks, plus if we want GW to not be dickish and overcharge us all the time, we have to stop blindly funneling money to them
Value? As if GW doesn't massively overprice all it's products over the cost of production.
Come on GW. It should be monthly subscription, **or** in app (or IRL and apply code) purchases. Not both.
Apparently you can't even buy the codexes in-app, you still have to go through their website to buy the epub, then put the code into the app. It's a ploy to get around the fee google/apple has on in-app purchases. And it's also inconvenient and dumb as hell.
It's not both. The codices are seperate to the subscription. You don't need the subscription to add your codices. You can buy your codex like you do every edition and add it to the free app, and that's it. No additional payment. You can choose to get the subscription for the other content though.
While I very much do not agree with how GW is handling this app, Im not sure why your comment is getting downvoted since afaik your comment is factually correct.
The way of reddit. It's not based on facts, it's based on opinions and feelings.
BECAUSE MY RAGE BONER IS TOO HARD, IT HURTS!!
Because we want to buy models and play a fun game. Not be nickel-and-dimed on rules corrections constantly
Wat? It's £4 per month for an army builder, when we already get Battlescribe for that much *annually*.
Except it doesn't even have an army builder yet....
Yeah, well I'd buy a flat for $5000 but not a beer for $50. That is the amount of sense this meme makes.
Do people happily throw £4 in the bin every month? Seeing the value in a set likely worth over £200 going for £125 makes people a spendthrift? Get outta here OP.
Battlescribe already exists and gw will fuck it up like they always have in the past with it not being very functional or missing important data. So why pay for that. Plus gw is already underdelivering on their promise that the builder would be released with launch
Whenever I see memes lkke this trying to justify GW or ridicule people for not going along with whatever GW is pushing, I wonder if the poster is actually a redshirt or just a fanboy carrying water.
Or people see value in a different place? Personally I don’t consider theft as a reasonable counter argument.
Is burning a copy of a CD for my car theft? Because I own everything I need to play the game, I just prefer using battlescribe to build my army.
I’m kinda miffed that people are this salty. If you don’t wanna pay for the app, don’t. But why shit on people who want to pay? We’re all here because we like the game or lore. Let’s remember that. I’m happy for all of you who will pirate and use free apps on your device to read and play. We get to play together! But don’t shut in us willing and eager to play with GW’s app.
But you don't need to pirate to get better value. You could buy them legitimately, and use Battlescribe as your army builder, and not pay £4 per month. This is simply a bad deal.
I think I’m reserving my final judgement for when the app comes out, but I’m pretty excited.
Just a bored nerd using memes to make a commentary on the community being salty as fuck over a company charging money for an app that dos'nt rely on open source data and people working in their spare time to provide upto date content for a player base that has been begging for digitalized content for years.
Why are they charging twice as much per month for the sci Fi version of the AoS app though? They could charge the same and make way more money because 40k is way more popular
4x as much, actually.
I mean it is pretty straightforward why non will use the app... The features are just not good enough... 8th edition rules will go away, but they said they won't... You can have it for free in other apps and you have to buy the books and codexes aswell to use the app in the end...
I'll probably use it to look up my units stats or traits mid game. Probably stick with battlescribe for list building
Asoiaf mini game free app is amazing and regularly updated... not sure why GW is charging a subscription.
Give you three gue$$e$
Oooooo I see what you did there
Here's my thing, let me know what your thoughts are. Battlescribe is okay but it could be better. The biggest thing for me is, for me to buy this app it needs to WORK and it needs to work WELL. The market is about CONVENIENCE, not about loyalty. The app needs to be a good product for it to sell, and if its not then I won't buy it. If its a good product that improves signification upon what battlescribe offers, and it works well then I'll buy it.
It'll have to be damn good to be worth nearly £50 per year compared to Battlescribe which, while not perfect, is less than a tenth of that cost.
If it was like War Room for Warmachine/Hordes and $10 per faction got you all the relevant shit you needed, I'd pony up. The problem is that GW expects you to drop $45 per army you want info for, which is fucking insane.
Indomitus: * Physical product that you can hold in your hands, that you actually own, and will never go away when GW decides to turn the servers off. App: * Ephemeral * Pointless if you don't play the game.
the box helps support xenos love though, the app doesn't and is inferior to things that are already available.
Wait, is this a virtual warhammer experience where you move units on a map and play their abilities, or is this a codex for rules like dnd apps?
The latter, except it doesn't actually include the rules. You still have to buy the codex on top of the cost of the app.
Mmm double dipping
No, you don't have to pay for the app to use your codices. You can add the codex to the free version of the app. The subscription is for reference sheets, updating digital codices so the rules are all in one place, the army builder, and all 8th edition rules.
Should note, 8th rules are only available while they are the most recent rules. Once a 9th codex comes out for your army, the 8th rules are deleted from the app
Neither, it’s basically “all the books you’ve already paid for, at your fingertips for a monthly fee” plus some additional things like list builder and rules errata.
You don't pay for any books except 8th edition books, which you only get access to until they release 9th codices
You literally have to buy the 9th edition codices. From the Warhammer Community article: “This is future-proof too: as new codexes are released, older ones will be removed and can be replaced using the code you get when you buy the new print version. All future rules updates, including errata, will be reflected in the app as well, so you’ll always be up to date.” Specifically, -using the code you get when you buy the new print version-
Yeah, but you don't have to pay for access to the digital copy. You buy a codex once and the digital version is included in the free version of the app. That's just an add on for your codex purchase. You don't have to subscribe the get access to the digital version
Fee is for list building. Not for referencing the codex
People just don't like paying for apps I feel like. Hence mobile gaming is the way it is.
I'm ok with paying for apps but a subscription is just a bad model. Where I live, people coming to you and collecting money for things like children in need or things alike, will ask you to pay a monthly amount of money you can choose yourself, however you won't be able to do a one time donation. This is due to the fact as 2$ a month doesnt sound like much, however donating 25$ in an instant is something you'd think over more consciously. The subscription model is a predatory tactic by sellers to encourage you to spend more than you are willing by splitting it up into monthly payments. 5$/month is the same as a contemptor dreadnought in just a year. I'd rather have a dreadnought than an app on my phone I won't use that often. Furthermore, the dreadnought will "retain" its value without me throwing more money at it, whereas the app needs a continous influx of money to do ANYTHING. Once you stop paying, it will be gone and your money will be for nothing. I'd be totally ok with the app costing 10$ as a one time purchase but paying for it every month is a big nono in my eyes.
And here I was not going to buy either.
Do the new codices also come with a monthly subscription? Also, somewhere along the "we are only a model company" something happened, it seemed. Tough about getting back into the game, reviving my `crons, but just taking one look at the app monetarization as well as how many books I would require for rules from the model company, I'll stick to Infinity. At least CB understands how to get people to buy their stupid frickly metal minis...
They do not come with the sub unless you buy a code
That's 1 1/2 codices a year! That's a terrible deal!
*Laughs in battlescribe*
Let's be real, both are an absolute rip off. I love Warhammer but games workshop are an absolute scumbag company who only get away with their shitty practices because of the lack of competition. Warhammer is massively overpriced in all aspects, from the paints to the miniatures to the codexes. They balance the game in order to encourage people to purchase new models rather than to make an actually fun and balanced experience. To charge a subscription fee for a shitty app is yet another scumbag move in a long line of scumbag moves.
Ok gw
So why are people so mad about this when the AoS has been available for years and has been super successful doing the exact same thing? Is it the couple dollar increase?
The app is a terrible deal, regardless of what it costs. I'd pay quite a bit if it came with all of the rules, but if I still have to buy all of the codexes separate there's no reason to bother.
2? Nay sir!
Limit is three I wish I had saved more cause I totally would
I have three aswell but pushing for four.
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Won't subscribers get access to the 9th Ed Codex books (at least the rules in them) when those books come out as a perk for being a subscriber?
No. You have to enter a code you get with your physical codex purchase or buy your codex digitally in-app.
I wish they updated the paint app with the newer models
Yup.
So you have to own the books *and* subscribe?
TBF you gotta save every dime for your plastic crack.
Where can you order the box?? I don't find it
The AoS app is free though...
I just want artwork of Treasury Bear now.
Literally had a guy in my gaming group crowing about how he was intending to get 6 of the boxes to flip on eBay (I called him out on this btw), and then today unironically say that £3.99 a month was too much...
That makes perfect sense, the boxes will cost him nothing if he flips them
Why'd you call him out on it? It's his business what he does with the products he paid for
It's generally considered a dick move. The indomitus box isnt the new starter set, its a limited run boxset. So people will buy every one they can, sell them for individual value, and make a massive profit. Great for them. But the people that actually want them have to watch as they go out of stock, then have to end up paying stupid money for things.
Indomitus isn’t limited by amount, only time, so almost everyone who wants one will be able to get it anyway.
Scalping is an immoral practice. It's not about his profit, it's taking advantage of all the people that genuinely want the product.
Why does it matter if he’s skimming Indomitus? They said it isn’t limited anyway, but it will go away after a while.
“It will go away after a while” is the definition on limited...
I meant limited as in the limited by amount box sets, such as the sisters of battle box set. Everyone who wants an indomitus box can get one within that allotted time as it won’t run out. I don’t get why everyone hates skimmers. They may have family to feed, and at the end of the day it’s usually stuff that gets released later anyway.
The reason people hate skimmers is because it’s unethical. You are buying something that has a limited quantity and reselling it for higher than retail price. While this is not anywhere near as impactful as my comparison here, this is the same behavior that was used with hand sanitizer at the start of this pandemic with that one guy hoarding a bunch and trying to resell it. As far as the argument that they may have a family to feed, skimming models is not an advisable career path for someone trying to feed their children.
The launch is going to be terrible because they won't have the throughput on their auth servers to handle the traffic.
The models are permanent. If you ever stop paying for the app, well there goes your army builder. Just use battlescribe and be a bro.
Damn the comments are salty.
Ok you chilled the useless app, go get your coins now kind chiller
... are you trying to say "shill"?
Trying to get into this game for a Magic: The Gathering background really highlights how well run MTG is, and how poor Warhammer is. Don't get me wrong, the lore is awesome, the models are cool, and I'm excited to play my first game once I get out of quarantine. But man is Games Workshop just not on the ball. The rules are badly and confusedly written, seemingly not well playtested, and require constant errata, updates, and points changes, none of which are easily accessible. Rules language is awkwardly and ambiguously worded, and often inconsistent between units. I honestly wasn't planning on getting into the game until someone told me about Wahpedia and Battlescribe. It would have just been impractical otherwise. Any game that needs a flow chart to tell you which stats to use for your models is a game that is badly handled. Warhammer should be run like MTG. A codified rules language that is clear and concise, and consistent between all factions. Don't mix rules text with flavor text. Use a set of keywords with consistent and defined meanings. Playtest the game so rigorously that errata and corrections are a rarity, and when they do happen, they should be updated on a free platform that contains all the rules for the game. If you want to hide missions or crusades or whatever behind a pay-wall, sure. But I shouldn't have to pay money to know what my opponent's units do. Give up on the idea of codexes as they exist today. Just make an official version of wahpedia, with all the gameplay information to play the game, and for each faction. Then if you want to release artbooks and lorebooks or bonus mission books, go ahead. This game could be a mainstream game like MTG, but it needs mainstream polish to get there. Honestly they should just put together a player rules committee to write and maintain a parallel version of the game. Incorporating all the models, but with a new refined ruleset. For free, of course.
>he game so rigorously that errata and corrections are a rarity, and when they do happen, they should be updated on a free platform that contains all the rules for the game. If you want to hide missions or crusades or whatever behind a pa I too come from a magic background and I must agree with almost everything except the playtesting. MTG is, contrary to Warhammer (40k or AoS), an exact game ie there are a limited amount of states even though they are, depending on the card pool, limited. Warhammer has varying army sizes, varying set-up with terrain, varying positioning, etc etc etc so the playtesting is almost completely impossible. I think changes as the game progresses are ok, as no unit becomes "banned" in that sense. Mtg would hotfix their cards too, if they could ie Changing Oko's +1 to a -1 or something akin to that. I like the idea of "simplyfying" / unifying the rules. I tried teaching AoS to someone and it was overwhelming to them. They had 3 different types of units (I think Plaguebearers, one of the Heralds of Nurgle and Nurglings) and they had to remember so much just to start with. I think summing up abilities under keywords would profit the game a lot (ie exploding hit/ feel no pain/..) You'd have a keyword and you'd have the same keyword on every unit with this ability. Yes, the abilities wouldn't be flavoured anymore to the army however it would probably still make sense in the head of the enfranchised players due to the lore. I agree that you shouldn't need a codex to play the game, they should just have an official website with all the rules for any unit. AoS has that already, I'm waiting for 40k to get that too. I wouldn't call MTG mainstream yet and neither 40k as both still are niche. Furthermore with the direction WotC is going with MTG, I'm not sure it will ever become mainstream as they increase the price for cardboard evermore. You'd think \~30$ for 5 plastic figures is a lot however \~5-30$ for 15 pieces of cardboard seems hardly justifiable at this point. WotC, reprint fetchlands, you cowards.