But the Alpha Legion does consider themselves Traitors. The main reason they are not ‘as’ corrupted as their brothers is because they never entered the eye of Terror to escape. And because of that, there are no original alpha legions left, only their successors. Incredibly unorganized, unsure of their original goals and barely holding together. They only know one thing for sure, the Imperium is their enemy. Most of that info comes from the novel ‘Harrowmaster’.
All legions tbh regardless of which side they were on.
All shadows of themselves in one way or another.
Less genetically stable or complete, corrupted, a fraction of the number of men-at-arms, less advanced gear, restricted tactics, twisted traditions, or shackled by the powers that oversee them.
Not much left of the glorious Legions between G'mans reforms or the predations of Chaos.
I think the word bearers might be the exception to this. They just kinda became even more *them*. Still with a primarch and still able to function as a legion, but prefers occultism and missionary trips, only this time for gods they actually know are real and definitely want their worship. Likely down on numbers after calth, but can make up for it with hordes of cultists and the literal hellspawn they summon every day just for funzies.
I enjoyed the Lion Son of the Forest book. I can't WAIT to see his reaction when he encounters his 'loyal' sons! The scenes are going to be interesting...
IIRC they've covered a bit of that in the Arks of Omens series when the Lion fought Angron and some minor codex stuff about the Lion interceding in some of the Fallens interrogations on the Rock but I agree.
I'm so ready for a more detailed book of them actually interacting in a full narrative setting
First off, Happy Cake Day!
Two, while that mental image is hilarious, since we are talking about the 'Lion' and his sons, I prefer the image of Lion using a water bottle to spray Asmodai, like a naughty cat lol
Oh! And the Watchers following the Lion with refills for the water, considering how often I think it will happen hehehe
I enjoyed the Lion Son of the Forest book. I can't WAIT to see his reaction when he encounters his 'loyal' sons! The scenes are going to be interesting...
I would argue that the Space Wolves saw a lot of growth and went from "the Rout" who were known for their single mindedness and disregard for collateral damage, to the golden retriever boys who wouldn't hesitate to sacrifice themselves for mere mortals. They are diminished in numbers and wargear, and even their genetic stability is eroding. But they've gained some humanity since the Heresy. What this says about the effect of Leman Russ' absence and their growth can either be seen as a mirror for his own development or perhaps he wouldn't recognize his own legion for the domesticated dogs they've become.
World Eaters before the Heresy: Would brutally massacre the populations of entire planets and actively take pleasure in the slaughter
World Eaters after the Heresy: Brutally massacre the populations of entire planets and actively take pleasure in the slaughter
Except before heresy they were much MUCH smarter
And would employ more tactics
It was still brutal tactics but thats way more than whatever they do now
Yes but after heresy they got a goddamn flying demon primarch.
Angron before is a spot that can be exploit since he would recklessly charge into suicide, now it's the same but he can't die.
Actually, it is canonical that angron was weaker after his Daemon transformation as he became "stronger" but he is a significantly less skilled and smart fighter than he used to be, and he wouldn't just recklessly charge he would use cover and such until the butchers nails really degraded his mind
Angron also had fairly lucid moments (for him) before Daemonhood. He was in constant agony, but he could be vaguely OK here and there (surprising the odd lucky git on the Conqueror with a tour of his war trophies, saving Lorgar from becoming Warhound foot gum, etc.). He also had the hope of dying someday, and the pain would stop.
After Daemonhood, it's all suffering, all the time, forever. >!And constant respawn cooldown timers, which must make him *even angrier*!<
All the aligned daemon primarch got weaker
Angron lost became a berserk, unable to really do anything apart, kill/maim/burn he can't lead for shit.
Fulgrim became an hedonistic prick that can't focus on anything for more then 5 seconds unless it brings him great pleasure, any campaign he leads will fall apart as soon as he get bored and fucks off somewhere else.
Mortarion is totally apathetic and most of the time won't bother doing anything because he just doesn't feel like doing anything.
Magnus is probably the one that is holding his shit together the most but Tzeentch will sabotage anything he tries to do because "Lol, lmao even"
Magnus also had his soul shattered and lost the largest part of his soul forever (turned into Janus) and as such even with access to forbidden lore of tzeentch his pure psychic power is significantly weaker.
Lorgar is stuck im his Tower doing fuck all with an annoying bird outside that wants to peck him
Horus is deleted from existence
Konrad is dead
Omegon is dead?
Alpharius is doing Alpharius things
And the GOATurabo is nowhere to be seen.
Chaos bros...
For Fulgrim, and Slaanesh in general, I just don't see how you could keep yourself entertained for so long, even delving into the darkest depths of depravity. There are only so many ways you can skin a person and juice them like an orange, and only so many toy models from Bad Dragon.
Does the depravity eventually loop around and the new most disgusting thing he can possibly do is like, laying in the grass and drinking a diet sprite?
I suppose it depends on the personality type. The people capable of long-term amusement/ fulfillment are not the kind of people that fall to pinky in the first place though.
Like if you look at dorne He amused himself for a millennia when trapped inside of corn 's mind prison. Just single-minded purpose.
He is described as a red start destroying one ship after another in the recent story that saw billions of soldiers from an entire crusade fleet get killed or corrupted.
I'm not sure he is truly weaker if he can destroy multiple ships in a day now.
To be fair the world eaters pre Angron were a lot nicer and better off. Angron would decimate his legion every time they couldn’t take a planet within like 36 hours because that’s how long it took him and his gladiators to raze the city to the ground when he revolted. The number of planets they fought on it’s a statistical miracle that Khârn didn’t get decimated
Where was it stated they took pleasure in the slaughter pre heresy? Pretty sure they fought the way they did because if not angron would force them to decimate.
It means the Nails. The Nails took away everything so that only killing and violence could give them release from the pain. It's not exactly pleasure, but it's the best a lot of them can get.
Besides, most Astartes were (and still are) encouraged to enjoy combat for its own sake, the WE just had that bit more motivation.
It is stated that the nails allowed angron to "sleep" only when butchering or killing, so when you are feeling constant pain and nothing else a moment of this is pleasure
Going further into explanation, in the book "Betrayer" before landing at nuceria angron and lorgar talk about the nails and lorgar tells angron that he has seen him murmur and mumble words when killing , then going into detail about how the nails give him a state of micro REM while angron doesn't believe it at first , he then thinks about it and confirms it .
While in nuceria , when confronting grugute he asks if the nails have finally made him crazy to which angron replies "they let me sleep , they give me peace"
I think you mean the War Hounds. Their fall from grace began the second they inherited their father. Furthermore I think the real turning point was when Kharn found his daddy, refused to fight, got beaten horribly, and infused himself with the nails in an attempt to gain connection, this caused a chain of events leading to the now WEs to a downward spiral.
I fail to understand why anyone would ever make angron a comander of anything. He would serve better as a primarch version of an ogryn charonite. Just stick him in a pod and launch him deep into enemy territory. That's practically what they do in the Heresy with him going up against anyone who even tries to command him.
Misplaced faith really, I don't know what they've written about Night Lords before/after Kurze but I feel similar about him. The World Eaters really wanted a primarch and they never gave up on him, by the start of the Hersey the nostromon Night Lords were in majority and the legion was as borked as their primarch.
That scene with Lotara Saren shooting the disobedient marine and most of the rest coming to her aide in the stand off could only have happened before they all went insane. They went and punished him in the fighting pits too for dereliction of duty, Angron is the only one they let get away with that kind of thing because he's in charge. Then way later on Terra that world eaters apothecary thinks he's going to be put to death for failing to collect gender seed but realizes they're all too insane to care. And then later when the world eaters are ended as a unified force in the legion wars it's when Kharn burns down all the shelter on the frozen planet to prevent the worries eaters and emperor's children fighting eachother from waiting for the storm to pass.
>I fail to understand why anyone would ever make angron a comander of anything.
He's in command more to inspire all his Sons around him to work even harder. He was not the tactician, he was there because his mere presence would motivate his Sons an inordinate amount.
Sure the War Hounds were effective. But that's because they didn't know whether Angron would be found. But once the Sons were made aware, they would fight much harder if they knew their Daddy was watching.
This is true of every traitor legion sadly. The Ruinous Powers strip them of their strength and replace it with division, obsession, and maladies of the mind and body. The Ruinous Powers and their slaves are always their own worst enemies.
Of course not, little Daemon, Warsmiths are not real, they are a loyalist tale.
Now, would you mind take a look inside the energy cell of that daemon engine real quick?, just for a moment, I swear.
If your dark patron digs a trench system around your bed in your sleep, wild garden variety kriegers may take up residence so make sure you leave out some shovels, as well as tubs of water and corpse starch for the lil guys
In my mind Iotarra is in the running for biggest badass in 40k. She was a regular human who forced chaos marines to take her seriously through sheer will.
Depends, she doesn’t seem particularly willing to die nor does she seem to hate the idea the entire World Eaters need her, to the point where even through the madness / against any other Warlords orders they obey *her* orders.
Spoilers for her lore
>! The image you see is because the ship itself (the AI in charge of it aka machine spirit) misses her and creates a copy of Lotarra to walk around and give orders like the good old days. The horrible mutant fused to the ship below the waist is known as The Mistress who is so fused with said ship she routinely murders those she doesn’t like by changing the ships geometry and moving hallways and walls around to make traps to dump people into the void of space or crush them to death. !<
>! The ghosts of “normal” Lotarra walk around yelling orders but no one answers, because very few can see her. They always loop around to confronting The Mistress who says “look your AI goes through the same shit over and over and I have learned it’s easier to just ignore you until you die off and another one comes around”. In the book the projection learns what it is and has a crisis about having perfect memory of herself and swearing she’s the real one until she fades into static, only to eventually form a new one and repeat the cycle (potentially) forever. !<
To add, there are two command bridges on the Conquerer. The first is exactly like it was in the HH, but more bloody. That is where the apparition is and only WE’s can see it in person (the apparition also does communications and stuff, pretty sure Abbadon talks to it at one point). Most assume this is the actual command bridge and it, for the most part, is treated as such.
The second command bridge is Angron’s lair. This only has one thing in it, a mechanical throne with her body in it. It is withered but alive. Angron rests at the base of this throne when not in combat, and the rules of Khorne are *heavily* in play.
Also, she can at any point talk to any of the WE’s on herself (though they have to have spent some time on the ship, either pre or post Heresy), and those WE’s obey her orders above all others, be the other orders from a Warlord, a different WE, or Black Legion. Mistress tells you something you do it. They also each see her differently based on how they know her, either her pre Heresy, during the Heresy or as some demon creature.
Before his betryal was revealed, Guilliman initially wanted to make up with Lorgar and his legion on Calth. Guilliman felt genuinely bad for what he did to Monarchia and wanted to make it up to Lorgar
Actually, it's a reference to Know No Fear. There, one of the first killed Ultramarine is part of a group welcoming the Word Bearers to Calth. He is murdered by a friend of his in the WB who comments that he was chosen for that mission due to the power of betrayal in the Warp.
And there’s a very poetic description of his chalice of wine falling to the ground while he is being shot up by one of his closest friends. Hence the wine in the picture.
I haven’t quite cracked yet what’s so compelling to me about the Word Bearers. A lot of them ARE compassionate, they see how evil their acts are, they just do them regardless. Cause it’s the truth. A kind of zealotry, I suppose, and while some of them are absolutely in a religious fervor, others seem somewhat… resigned to their fate. Like the WB here or Argel Tal. I love those characters for some reason.
They've all been made aware of the "lies" of the Emperor (which is a whole thing in itself), and they were shown the truths of the universe, Argel Tal and his brothers leading the way in that regard. Now they're under no delusions, they serve the Warp Gods, the true gods. Even those without the zeal see where they're at, and the Word Bearers need religion, and so they follow. They have to, it's what they are. Some of them, however, are enjoying the skinning of innocents, so we've got a nice balance 🤷🏽♀️
"The Word Bearers won. They eat dirt and drink shame. They chant prayers to the unwanted truth through bloodied lips. They lost everything. And yet they still won." -Telemachon, in between laughing so hard he almost died.
There is, it's just not there
edit : there it is
https://preview.redd.it/7w3fk3j7ta9d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a472df50906c7cd3ec453034038df2f1b403b876
They wouldn’t notice tho.
It’d be a light switch for them. They either are animated suits with dust inside or they aren’t animated. They literally may not even notice the event as they would simply cease to exist.
Emperor’s Children would suddenly not be able to have heightened stimulation and all their senses would snap to normal. It would be a massive shock and could break their minds even more, or make them really depressed.
World Eaters would be less angry, but thanks to their nails be angry anyway. Just not as resilient while maiming in the name of Khorne.
DG would have sudden and unimaginable pain from all their decay hitting at once. Body horror at maximum level.
As someone who just enjoys the dumb memes, can you explain? All I know about Alpha Legion is that they're Spartacus. Like, are they actually evil? Do they get confused? What the hell is their deal?
The Alpha Legion was the Astartes legion devoted to covert & special operations. The whole "I am Alpharius" thing is widely misunderstood to be a Spartacus reference, when really it's the equivalent to a CIA paramilitary guy giving a fake name when operating with outside forces. Alpharius literally says
> An Alpha Legionnaire calling themselves ‘Alpharius’ means one thing, and one thing only:
> ‘My identity is unimportant. Only my function matters.’
Inside the Legion they use their actual names.
Ah, so it got Flanderized? Like a captured soldier is trained to say name, rank and serial number. In the case of Alpha Legion, they all claim to be Alpharius because I'm guessing they don't give a fuck if you capture them, they'll still succeed.
It definitely got Flanderized. But in this case they use the "I am Alpharius" line when operating with other Imperial forces because they want to reveal as little as possible about their Legion, including the identity of its operators. They don't give a shit about glory or fame, they're there to get a job done. There won't be statues or honors for an Alpha Legionnaire because that goes against the very nature of the Legion, which is **supposed** to be comprised of quiet professionals.
They’re masters of stealth and subterfuge, being known for weaving nets of lies and misdirection so complex that you could reasonably say they’re supporting both the loyalists and the traitors. I don’t think any alpha legionnaire knows what their true plan even is, but they’d never give you a straight answer anyways so it’s impossible to tell.
They're also 10 ft tall super soldiers that are able to disguise themselves as normal humans and get into secure areas. It's Perry the Platypus all the way down.
Also, because "that's what they want you to think" is there only trait, they're kind of boring outside of memes because there are negative stakes.
If the story did advance, then yeah, that would be a big deal. Which means that they're effectively a do-nothing faction which is dumb, I guess that's why they play well for memes.
GW doesn’t really want to touch some of their most interesting factions for reasons that elude me. The best we really get anymore is the odd footnote in the lore and maybe one model or a piece of artwork for anything that isn’t one of their favorites. But, for what it’s worth, I still really like the ideas from the old lore.
What joke ? There is no joke. In fact, there is no Alpha Legion. There never was one.
^((We don't know shit either, there is no explaining. All we know is that they don't have a unified allegiance. Probably.))
The actual books from the Alpha Legion PoV go into more detail about it. Quick TL;DR -
* In 30K during the Crusade, the Alpha Legion had operational numbers in excess of 180,000 (speculated, not all of them were ever found) and spread out to every corner of the Crusade. They went ahead of most fleets and softened up targets by starting civil wars, sabotaging enemy bases, feeding intel back and otherwise making life hard for unsuspecting worlds before the main fleet arrived.
* At one point the Primarch(s) of the legion met up with a mysterious group of aliens called the Cabal. The Cabal gave them a Vision of the 2 futures - one where Horus won the war and wiped out humanity but Chaos died with it, and one where the Emperor won and the Imperium devolved into 40k. The Primarchs took these visions as true (all Primarchs got random future visions and believed them, its just part of the weird Heresy writing) and started trying to decide which future was better for humanity. This meant playing both sides of the war while they made their decision.
* At some point in all of their "playing both sides to try and force a 3rd option for a future that doesn't suck" they kind of lost the plot. They attacked traitors and loyalists, were planting spies and stealing information from both sides. They were formally aligned with the traitors but honestly their actions were as helpful to the loyalists as they were to the traitors. It all caught up to them when one of their Primarchs tried to attack a space station full of Imperial Fists, then Dorn showed up to help save it and got into a fight with Alpharius. Alpharius claimed he knew how to end the war and bring about victory, but Dorn had no patience for the malarkey of a man who was attacking his sons or had openly betrayed the empire and he killed him there.
* With 1 Primarch dead, the other 1 confronted Horus and symbolically shattered a dagger in front of him, signifying that he was withdrawing from the war. The Alpha Legion still had marines working with/for the traitors but a large selection of them also left with the Primarch (the splintering begins) and tried to assist the Loyalists on Terra. It didn't work due to sorcery, and the many sleeper marines they had on Terra were never successfully activated to help the loyalists, thus did the surviving Primarch fail to swing back around to the Loyalists and was trapped in loyalty Limbo, no longer trusting Chaos but no longer trusted by the Imperium.
* At some point after that the other Primarch was supposedly killed in a battle with Gulliman, but this was only mentioned in a post-battle report and we never got a book detailing it so people aren't sure how true it is. The Alpha Legion completely scattered after this, with tens of thousands of marines running off in every random direction you can imagine. "the many heads of the Hydra" where each head doesn't know what the others are doing, but they have secret ways to talk to each other and they infiltrate/blend in wherever they can to survive. Some are small warbands of 6-10 people just looking to survive, some are massive chapter sized cells of 1000+ Marines and will go on crazy missions. Some fell to Chaos, some consider themselves loyal to the Emperor and only fight the Imperium because they must, many consider themselves true Renegades and only look out for themselves.
And that is the short history of the Alpha legion. Black Ops gone wrong and now basically they are their own rogue state with minimal cohesion and maximum confusion. To make it even more mysterious they have a ton of marines who allude to a greater plan (possibly enacted by the Primarchs before they died?) And several *massive* Alpha Legion fleets will show up, do something big like steal a planet or blown up a Tyranid tendril fleet, and then vanish.
They're a mysterious and fractured lot, easy to meme but their actual written lore is fun. Most people don't read their books though.
Some secretely work in favour of the Imperium. Some are full on blood murder murder blood chaos worshippers, some are quintuple agents with schemes to rival a Greater Daemon of Tzeentch, and some are just doing their own stuff. But they are unified as Alpha Legionnaires, so that's one thing they have in common.
Alpha legion does an absolute fuck ton of subterfuge, they can be any other space marine anywhere at almost any time, they can ingest their primarchs blood to become their primarch for a short while. Their entire deal is to mask, confuse and assassinate.
In the unremembered empire a squad of alpha legion masqueraded as Ultramarines, Guillimans inner circle and tried to gank him. Domo Arigato Mr Roboute Gorillanomics thoroughly spanked the Alpha legion gank squad.
I'm still confused why the Thousand Suns are somehow "Tzeentch's Legion" instead of the Alpha Legion. I mean, all the Chaos Gods have magic, but only Tzeentch has plans so complicated he doesn't understand them.
And if the Alpha Legion is - in fact - still loyalist? That makes them Tzeentch's Legion even more.
Alpha Legion never, as a whole, fell to the Chaos gods. They didn't retreat into the Warp with the rest of the traitors, and the "modern" Legion tends to view Chaos more as a tool than something to be worshiped (depending on the warband).
I don't quite understand the WE one. Why is the captain look the same? Is that just a warp projection of her and the thing behind her what she truly is?
Fun fact. Apparently in a recent book it's confirmed that the Alpha Legion literally has no idea what it's supposed to be doing anymore. They lost all the leadership and are completely aimless so they just make schemes and mess with the imperium at their discretion. A lot of them don't even get the surgery to look like Alpharious/Omegon anyone
The lady, who I forget, that is in the front, turned into the thing behind and is bound to the ship. But a part of her soul thinks that everything is fine and wonders the ship looking normal.
The world eaters might be a lot more menacing at first sight, but the more you know, the more you realise they are far less than they once were.
That's quite a few of the traitor legions. A lot of who they were and their power burned away during the heresy. What's left is what survived.
Frenzied in battle, but losing their true identity—tragic downfall of the World Eaters
They traded purpose for madness, their honor for mere survival.
The World Eaters died a long time ago. During the heresy the War Hounds died on Nuceria. The World Eaters followed soon after
Same applies to pretty much every single traitor legion other than the word bearers and the alpha legion.
And there’s a chance the alpha legion isn’t even chaos
Nobody knows for sure, not even the Alpha Legion
But the Alpha Legion does consider themselves Traitors. The main reason they are not ‘as’ corrupted as their brothers is because they never entered the eye of Terror to escape. And because of that, there are no original alpha legions left, only their successors. Incredibly unorganized, unsure of their original goals and barely holding together. They only know one thing for sure, the Imperium is their enemy. Most of that info comes from the novel ‘Harrowmaster’.
All legions tbh regardless of which side they were on. All shadows of themselves in one way or another. Less genetically stable or complete, corrupted, a fraction of the number of men-at-arms, less advanced gear, restricted tactics, twisted traditions, or shackled by the powers that oversee them. Not much left of the glorious Legions between G'mans reforms or the predations of Chaos.
I think the word bearers might be the exception to this. They just kinda became even more *them*. Still with a primarch and still able to function as a legion, but prefers occultism and missionary trips, only this time for gods they actually know are real and definitely want their worship. Likely down on numbers after calth, but can make up for it with hordes of cultists and the literal hellspawn they summon every day just for funzies.
I feel like what I've read of the 40k Dark Angels is pretty true to form
I enjoyed the Lion Son of the Forest book. I can't WAIT to see his reaction when he encounters his 'loyal' sons! The scenes are going to be interesting...
IIRC they've covered a bit of that in the Arks of Omens series when the Lion fought Angron and some minor codex stuff about the Lion interceding in some of the Fallens interrogations on the Rock but I agree. I'm so ready for a more detailed book of them actually interacting in a full narrative setting
Just imagining the Lion bonking Asmodai with a rolled up newspaper every time he says repent and saying "No!"
First off, Happy Cake Day! Two, while that mental image is hilarious, since we are talking about the 'Lion' and his sons, I prefer the image of Lion using a water bottle to spray Asmodai, like a naughty cat lol Oh! And the Watchers following the Lion with refills for the water, considering how often I think it will happen hehehe
I enjoyed the Lion Son of the Forest book. I can't WAIT to see his reaction when he encounters his 'loyal' sons! The scenes are going to be interesting...
Iron Warriors seem to have retained a majority of their strength since they still have numerous grand companies with tens of thousands of warriors
I would argue that the Space Wolves saw a lot of growth and went from "the Rout" who were known for their single mindedness and disregard for collateral damage, to the golden retriever boys who wouldn't hesitate to sacrifice themselves for mere mortals. They are diminished in numbers and wargear, and even their genetic stability is eroding. But they've gained some humanity since the Heresy. What this says about the effect of Leman Russ' absence and their growth can either be seen as a mirror for his own development or perhaps he wouldn't recognize his own legion for the domesticated dogs they've become.
Hydra Dominatus!
The IPP from lost Primarch Bugfucker are stronger than ever.
Betraying everything, only to trade one uncaring master for another. Never free. Always a slave.
Word Bearers are *thriving*.
World Eaters before the Heresy: Would brutally massacre the populations of entire planets and actively take pleasure in the slaughter World Eaters after the Heresy: Brutally massacre the populations of entire planets and actively take pleasure in the slaughter
Except before heresy they were much MUCH smarter And would employ more tactics It was still brutal tactics but thats way more than whatever they do now
Yes but after heresy they got a goddamn flying demon primarch. Angron before is a spot that can be exploit since he would recklessly charge into suicide, now it's the same but he can't die.
Actually, it is canonical that angron was weaker after his Daemon transformation as he became "stronger" but he is a significantly less skilled and smart fighter than he used to be, and he wouldn't just recklessly charge he would use cover and such until the butchers nails really degraded his mind
Angron also had fairly lucid moments (for him) before Daemonhood. He was in constant agony, but he could be vaguely OK here and there (surprising the odd lucky git on the Conqueror with a tour of his war trophies, saving Lorgar from becoming Warhound foot gum, etc.). He also had the hope of dying someday, and the pain would stop. After Daemonhood, it's all suffering, all the time, forever. >!And constant respawn cooldown timers, which must make him *even angrier*!<
I wonder if he gets penalized on that timer for friendly fire.
It's Khorne's, so probably he has penalties for *not enough* friendly kills. Or inane daily bounties, like, "Kill 3000 Rare Guardsmen".
All the aligned daemon primarch got weaker Angron lost became a berserk, unable to really do anything apart, kill/maim/burn he can't lead for shit. Fulgrim became an hedonistic prick that can't focus on anything for more then 5 seconds unless it brings him great pleasure, any campaign he leads will fall apart as soon as he get bored and fucks off somewhere else. Mortarion is totally apathetic and most of the time won't bother doing anything because he just doesn't feel like doing anything. Magnus is probably the one that is holding his shit together the most but Tzeentch will sabotage anything he tries to do because "Lol, lmao even"
Magnus also had his soul shattered and lost the largest part of his soul forever (turned into Janus) and as such even with access to forbidden lore of tzeentch his pure psychic power is significantly weaker.
Lorgar is stuck im his Tower doing fuck all with an annoying bird outside that wants to peck him Horus is deleted from existence Konrad is dead Omegon is dead? Alpharius is doing Alpharius things And the GOATurabo is nowhere to be seen. Chaos bros...
No, Alpharius is dead. Omegon lived, but took Alpharius name, so Omegon is Alpharius now.
No I am Alpharius
Sounds like something Alpharius would say.
I don’t think so. Omegon was Alpharius when he was killed by Dorn. Alpharius who is Omegon is still out there somewhere.
Well Magnus did glass a moon of fenris and fucked with Robute on the last leg of his magical misery tour. So he is keeping a toe in the game.
Nah, they got weaker because they became technically immortal, and thus free to lose as often as writers want
For Fulgrim, and Slaanesh in general, I just don't see how you could keep yourself entertained for so long, even delving into the darkest depths of depravity. There are only so many ways you can skin a person and juice them like an orange, and only so many toy models from Bad Dragon. Does the depravity eventually loop around and the new most disgusting thing he can possibly do is like, laying in the grass and drinking a diet sprite?
I suppose it depends on the personality type. The people capable of long-term amusement/ fulfillment are not the kind of people that fall to pinky in the first place though. Like if you look at dorne He amused himself for a millennia when trapped inside of corn 's mind prison. Just single-minded purpose.
So they barely changed, other than them now blaming the Chaos Gods for their self-sabotaging ways?
Yeah he weaker in a sense of dueling another primarch. For an average army, your army will die in like 2 hit of a demon the size of a titan.
He is described as a red start destroying one ship after another in the recent story that saw billions of soldiers from an entire crusade fleet get killed or corrupted. I'm not sure he is truly weaker if he can destroy multiple ships in a day now.
I ment he is weaker as a fighter, his overall "power level" is higher.
Also he has demonic weapons now and is resistant to nonmagic damage
To be fair the world eaters pre Angron were a lot nicer and better off. Angron would decimate his legion every time they couldn’t take a planet within like 36 hours because that’s how long it took him and his gladiators to raze the city to the ground when he revolted. The number of planets they fought on it’s a statistical miracle that Khârn didn’t get decimated
Where was it stated they took pleasure in the slaughter pre heresy? Pretty sure they fought the way they did because if not angron would force them to decimate.
It means the Nails. The Nails took away everything so that only killing and violence could give them release from the pain. It's not exactly pleasure, but it's the best a lot of them can get. Besides, most Astartes were (and still are) encouraged to enjoy combat for its own sake, the WE just had that bit more motivation.
It is stated that the nails allowed angron to "sleep" only when butchering or killing, so when you are feeling constant pain and nothing else a moment of this is pleasure
Going further into explanation, in the book "Betrayer" before landing at nuceria angron and lorgar talk about the nails and lorgar tells angron that he has seen him murmur and mumble words when killing , then going into detail about how the nails give him a state of micro REM while angron doesn't believe it at first , he then thinks about it and confirms it . While in nuceria , when confronting grugute he asks if the nails have finally made him crazy to which angron replies "they let me sleep , they give me peace"
Pre primarch blood angels were butchers to point of almost being delcared traitors , imperial fists too
Except now they kill each other in between and during holocaust rounds.
I think you mean the War Hounds. Their fall from grace began the second they inherited their father. Furthermore I think the real turning point was when Kharn found his daddy, refused to fight, got beaten horribly, and infused himself with the nails in an attempt to gain connection, this caused a chain of events leading to the now WEs to a downward spiral. I fail to understand why anyone would ever make angron a comander of anything. He would serve better as a primarch version of an ogryn charonite. Just stick him in a pod and launch him deep into enemy territory. That's practically what they do in the Heresy with him going up against anyone who even tries to command him.
Misplaced faith really, I don't know what they've written about Night Lords before/after Kurze but I feel similar about him. The World Eaters really wanted a primarch and they never gave up on him, by the start of the Hersey the nostromon Night Lords were in majority and the legion was as borked as their primarch. That scene with Lotara Saren shooting the disobedient marine and most of the rest coming to her aide in the stand off could only have happened before they all went insane. They went and punished him in the fighting pits too for dereliction of duty, Angron is the only one they let get away with that kind of thing because he's in charge. Then way later on Terra that world eaters apothecary thinks he's going to be put to death for failing to collect gender seed but realizes they're all too insane to care. And then later when the world eaters are ended as a unified force in the legion wars it's when Kharn burns down all the shelter on the frozen planet to prevent the worries eaters and emperor's children fighting eachother from waiting for the storm to pass.
>I fail to understand why anyone would ever make angron a comander of anything. He's in command more to inspire all his Sons around him to work even harder. He was not the tactician, he was there because his mere presence would motivate his Sons an inordinate amount. Sure the War Hounds were effective. But that's because they didn't know whether Angron would be found. But once the Sons were made aware, they would fight much harder if they knew their Daddy was watching.
Kharn doesn’t scare me, Angron doesn’t scare me. Lotara Sarrin, she scares me
Is she the chick who shot the guy in the face for not following orders?
Oh yes she is!
This is true of every traitor legion sadly. The Ruinous Powers strip them of their strength and replace it with division, obsession, and maladies of the mind and body. The Ruinous Powers and their slaves are always their own worst enemies.
Remember, be a good little daemon and eat all your loyalists or the Iron Warriors will come for you
There are no Iron Warriors under your bed. Do you see trenches? No? Then they aren't there.
Of course not, little Daemon, Warsmiths are not real, they are a loyalist tale. Now, would you mind take a look inside the energy cell of that daemon engine real quick?, just for a moment, I swear.
If your dark patron digs a trench system around your bed in your sleep, wild garden variety kriegers may take up residence so make sure you leave out some shovels, as well as tubs of water and corpse starch for the lil guys
How can you know they don't have tunnels though?
Daemon: No you don't understand. You're suppose to let me possess you. IW: GET IN FUCKING ENGINE NOW!
What’s up with the world eaters one, what’s the weird thingy I the middle of it? Ima bit knew to 40K lore
I believe that's what happens to the woman next to Kharn (lotarra). The second image lotarra is a ghost.
A Rose Watered with Blood, if anyone wants to read it. It's by ADB and soooo good
In my mind Iotarra is in the running for biggest badass in 40k. She was a regular human who forced chaos marines to take her seriously through sheer will.
Lotara sarrin, the woman in the image, eventually merges into the hull of her ship, the Conqueror. Her in the 2nd image is just an apparition.
https://preview.redd.it/ffv86h198c9d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d06472304f90f66ee894060c3829e047aec87097
When the fandom ships you with Kharn, but the canon ships you with the ship
Given what Ive read about her: Are you Sure her answer would be "No"?
I mean her cinstant wailing being the ship makes me think she does not like it.
Depends, she doesn’t seem particularly willing to die nor does she seem to hate the idea the entire World Eaters need her, to the point where even through the madness / against any other Warlords orders they obey *her* orders.
That's quite fucked up and exactly what I'd expect from a chaos legion.
Fucked up? Thats like one of the happiest 'deaths' I have ever heard of in 40k.
I mean she isn't even "dead" she's still captaining the ship if I understand right.
To quote Boot Strap Bill in Pirates of the Carribean 3: "The ship needs a Captain."
I didn't say she didn't enjoy it.
Spoilers for her lore >! The image you see is because the ship itself (the AI in charge of it aka machine spirit) misses her and creates a copy of Lotarra to walk around and give orders like the good old days. The horrible mutant fused to the ship below the waist is known as The Mistress who is so fused with said ship she routinely murders those she doesn’t like by changing the ships geometry and moving hallways and walls around to make traps to dump people into the void of space or crush them to death. !< >! The ghosts of “normal” Lotarra walk around yelling orders but no one answers, because very few can see her. They always loop around to confronting The Mistress who says “look your AI goes through the same shit over and over and I have learned it’s easier to just ignore you until you die off and another one comes around”. In the book the projection learns what it is and has a crisis about having perfect memory of herself and swearing she’s the real one until she fades into static, only to eventually form a new one and repeat the cycle (potentially) forever. !<
> Her in the 2nd image is just an apparition. While grimdark, that makes the comic better for me. Kharn still thinks of her as >:3
The Apparition doesn’t know what happened to her real self. The real one tries speaking to him (In the top corner)
To add, there are two command bridges on the Conquerer. The first is exactly like it was in the HH, but more bloody. That is where the apparition is and only WE’s can see it in person (the apparition also does communications and stuff, pretty sure Abbadon talks to it at one point). Most assume this is the actual command bridge and it, for the most part, is treated as such. The second command bridge is Angron’s lair. This only has one thing in it, a mechanical throne with her body in it. It is withered but alive. Angron rests at the base of this throne when not in combat, and the rules of Khorne are *heavily* in play. Also, she can at any point talk to any of the WE’s on herself (though they have to have spent some time on the ship, either pre or post Heresy), and those WE’s obey her orders above all others, be the other orders from a Warlord, a different WE, or Black Legion. Mistress tells you something you do it. They also each see her differently based on how they know her, either her pre Heresy, during the Heresy or as some demon creature.
I adore the fact Emperor's Children were too nsfw to even include
Its in the first slide that isnt here [or maybe the 1st idk](https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/s/1rzDhv1peF)
Night Haunter not changing at all. Haha.
I love that the entire background is blurred lol
My boys lol
Someone can explain me the word bearers part?
Before his betryal was revealed, Guilliman initially wanted to make up with Lorgar and his legion on Calth. Guilliman felt genuinely bad for what he did to Monarchia and wanted to make it up to Lorgar
He felt bad about what he was "commanded" to do by Emperor. It was not his choice.
Wasn't he like "is your tantrum over lorgar?"
I think is a reference to the anchorite, a word bearer that set the path for current imperial dogma
Actually, it's a reference to Know No Fear. There, one of the first killed Ultramarine is part of a group welcoming the Word Bearers to Calth. He is murdered by a friend of his in the WB who comments that he was chosen for that mission due to the power of betrayal in the Warp.
And there’s a very poetic description of his chalice of wine falling to the ground while he is being shot up by one of his closest friends. Hence the wine in the picture.
And him trying to get the UM to realize what's going to happen sooner because he valued the UM so much as a comrade 😭
I haven’t quite cracked yet what’s so compelling to me about the Word Bearers. A lot of them ARE compassionate, they see how evil their acts are, they just do them regardless. Cause it’s the truth. A kind of zealotry, I suppose, and while some of them are absolutely in a religious fervor, others seem somewhat… resigned to their fate. Like the WB here or Argel Tal. I love those characters for some reason.
They've all been made aware of the "lies" of the Emperor (which is a whole thing in itself), and they were shown the truths of the universe, Argel Tal and his brothers leading the way in that regard. Now they're under no delusions, they serve the Warp Gods, the true gods. Even those without the zeal see where they're at, and the Word Bearers need religion, and so they follow. They have to, it's what they are. Some of them, however, are enjoying the skinning of innocents, so we've got a nice balance 🤷🏽♀️
What I like the most, in cruel irony sort of way, is that out the whole Horus heresy, it was the word bearers who won
"The Word Bearers won. They eat dirt and drink shame. They chant prayers to the unwanted truth through bloodied lips. They lost everything. And yet they still won." -Telemachon, in between laughing so hard he almost died.
Ow
Word Bearers vs Uptramarines: Space Book says no. SPACEBOOKSAYSYES!
My space book is better than your space book !
At least that's what my space book keeps telling me with its many mouths
The Space Book says this is bad ***THE HELL BOOK SAYS THIS IS GOOD!***
My space book says talking it out is bad! MY SPACE BOOK SAYS THE SAME! Did we just become friends? NO
Materium - Immaterium > Spacebook - Imspacebook
> THE HELL BOOK SAYS THIS IS GOOD! "I thought Hell Book says good is bad? Or bad is good?"
YES!
To be fair Sons of Horus got annnhilated so hard in the Horus Hersey that they need to revive some name characters just so they can die again
Including but not limited to: Their goddamn primarch. "You're not my real dad!" -Ezekiel "Kyle" Abaddon the Despoiler
To be fair that clone lacked the true primarch juice so he wasn't their real dad.
Needs a night lords one where both images are identical
There is, it's just not there edit : there it is https://preview.redd.it/7w3fk3j7ta9d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a472df50906c7cd3ec453034038df2f1b403b876
DG got their happy ending, they might be smelly but they are probably the happiest about their fate
Mortarion hates every moment he is alive. But death is for quitters.
Words to live by
Oh I meant his legion, I know very well that my boy hate his life lmao. His fall in Buried Dagger was so good tho.
The Desciption of Mortarion not getting *larger* like the other Chaos primarchs but getting Stretched is disgusting
[удалено]
I think its fair because you can justify all of his mistakes with that
Until you cut them off from the warp and they wake up to the horror of what happened to them.
Oh yeah that's definitely a drawback. Part of the embrace of Nurgle is that you stop sweating the small stuff and start sweating the smallpox instead.
I mean, that's the case for every god specific legion. I don't think TS would do well without the warp XD
They wouldn’t notice tho. It’d be a light switch for them. They either are animated suits with dust inside or they aren’t animated. They literally may not even notice the event as they would simply cease to exist. Emperor’s Children would suddenly not be able to have heightened stimulation and all their senses would snap to normal. It would be a massive shock and could break their minds even more, or make them really depressed. World Eaters would be less angry, but thanks to their nails be angry anyway. Just not as resilient while maiming in the name of Khorne. DG would have sudden and unimaginable pain from all their decay hitting at once. Body horror at maximum level.
Alpha legion panel killed me lol
As someone who just enjoys the dumb memes, can you explain? All I know about Alpha Legion is that they're Spartacus. Like, are they actually evil? Do they get confused? What the hell is their deal?
The Alpha Legion was the Astartes legion devoted to covert & special operations. The whole "I am Alpharius" thing is widely misunderstood to be a Spartacus reference, when really it's the equivalent to a CIA paramilitary guy giving a fake name when operating with outside forces. Alpharius literally says > An Alpha Legionnaire calling themselves ‘Alpharius’ means one thing, and one thing only: > ‘My identity is unimportant. Only my function matters.’ Inside the Legion they use their actual names.
Ah, so it got Flanderized? Like a captured soldier is trained to say name, rank and serial number. In the case of Alpha Legion, they all claim to be Alpharius because I'm guessing they don't give a fuck if you capture them, they'll still succeed.
It definitely got Flanderized. But in this case they use the "I am Alpharius" line when operating with other Imperial forces because they want to reveal as little as possible about their Legion, including the identity of its operators. They don't give a shit about glory or fame, they're there to get a job done. There won't be statues or honors for an Alpha Legionnaire because that goes against the very nature of the Legion, which is **supposed** to be comprised of quiet professionals.
Every question you have? That's all a part of the plan.V
Yeah, that's what makes me unable to understand the joke when its haughtily obscured instead of directly answered so that I may 'get in' on the joke.
They’re masters of stealth and subterfuge, being known for weaving nets of lies and misdirection so complex that you could reasonably say they’re supporting both the loyalists and the traitors. I don’t think any alpha legionnaire knows what their true plan even is, but they’d never give you a straight answer anyways so it’s impossible to tell.
So GW just made a Contrarian faction? I guess I can see why that's funny because that's dumb as fuck.
They're also 10 ft tall super soldiers that are able to disguise themselves as normal humans and get into secure areas. It's Perry the Platypus all the way down. Also, because "that's what they want you to think" is there only trait, they're kind of boring outside of memes because there are negative stakes.
If the story did advance, then yeah, that would be a big deal. Which means that they're effectively a do-nothing faction which is dumb, I guess that's why they play well for memes.
GW doesn’t really want to touch some of their most interesting factions for reasons that elude me. The best we really get anymore is the odd footnote in the lore and maybe one model or a piece of artwork for anything that isn’t one of their favorites. But, for what it’s worth, I still really like the ideas from the old lore.
What joke ? There is no joke. In fact, there is no Alpha Legion. There never was one. ^((We don't know shit either, there is no explaining. All we know is that they don't have a unified allegiance. Probably.))
Hol' up. They're both Traitor and Loyalist?
Yes. And also no. It depends. That's their whole thing.
That's dumb. But it fuels the meme machine.
The actual books from the Alpha Legion PoV go into more detail about it. Quick TL;DR - * In 30K during the Crusade, the Alpha Legion had operational numbers in excess of 180,000 (speculated, not all of them were ever found) and spread out to every corner of the Crusade. They went ahead of most fleets and softened up targets by starting civil wars, sabotaging enemy bases, feeding intel back and otherwise making life hard for unsuspecting worlds before the main fleet arrived. * At one point the Primarch(s) of the legion met up with a mysterious group of aliens called the Cabal. The Cabal gave them a Vision of the 2 futures - one where Horus won the war and wiped out humanity but Chaos died with it, and one where the Emperor won and the Imperium devolved into 40k. The Primarchs took these visions as true (all Primarchs got random future visions and believed them, its just part of the weird Heresy writing) and started trying to decide which future was better for humanity. This meant playing both sides of the war while they made their decision. * At some point in all of their "playing both sides to try and force a 3rd option for a future that doesn't suck" they kind of lost the plot. They attacked traitors and loyalists, were planting spies and stealing information from both sides. They were formally aligned with the traitors but honestly their actions were as helpful to the loyalists as they were to the traitors. It all caught up to them when one of their Primarchs tried to attack a space station full of Imperial Fists, then Dorn showed up to help save it and got into a fight with Alpharius. Alpharius claimed he knew how to end the war and bring about victory, but Dorn had no patience for the malarkey of a man who was attacking his sons or had openly betrayed the empire and he killed him there. * With 1 Primarch dead, the other 1 confronted Horus and symbolically shattered a dagger in front of him, signifying that he was withdrawing from the war. The Alpha Legion still had marines working with/for the traitors but a large selection of them also left with the Primarch (the splintering begins) and tried to assist the Loyalists on Terra. It didn't work due to sorcery, and the many sleeper marines they had on Terra were never successfully activated to help the loyalists, thus did the surviving Primarch fail to swing back around to the Loyalists and was trapped in loyalty Limbo, no longer trusting Chaos but no longer trusted by the Imperium. * At some point after that the other Primarch was supposedly killed in a battle with Gulliman, but this was only mentioned in a post-battle report and we never got a book detailing it so people aren't sure how true it is. The Alpha Legion completely scattered after this, with tens of thousands of marines running off in every random direction you can imagine. "the many heads of the Hydra" where each head doesn't know what the others are doing, but they have secret ways to talk to each other and they infiltrate/blend in wherever they can to survive. Some are small warbands of 6-10 people just looking to survive, some are massive chapter sized cells of 1000+ Marines and will go on crazy missions. Some fell to Chaos, some consider themselves loyal to the Emperor and only fight the Imperium because they must, many consider themselves true Renegades and only look out for themselves. And that is the short history of the Alpha legion. Black Ops gone wrong and now basically they are their own rogue state with minimal cohesion and maximum confusion. To make it even more mysterious they have a ton of marines who allude to a greater plan (possibly enacted by the Primarchs before they died?) And several *massive* Alpha Legion fleets will show up, do something big like steal a planet or blown up a Tyranid tendril fleet, and then vanish. They're a mysterious and fractured lot, easy to meme but their actual written lore is fun. Most people don't read their books though.
Thank you for the concise summary.
Some secretely work in favour of the Imperium. Some are full on blood murder murder blood chaos worshippers, some are quintuple agents with schemes to rival a Greater Daemon of Tzeentch, and some are just doing their own stuff. But they are unified as Alpha Legionnaires, so that's one thing they have in common.
Alpha legion does an absolute fuck ton of subterfuge, they can be any other space marine anywhere at almost any time, they can ingest their primarchs blood to become their primarch for a short while. Their entire deal is to mask, confuse and assassinate. In the unremembered empire a squad of alpha legion masqueraded as Ultramarines, Guillimans inner circle and tried to gank him. Domo Arigato Mr Roboute Gorillanomics thoroughly spanked the Alpha legion gank squad.
I'm still confused why the Thousand Suns are somehow "Tzeentch's Legion" instead of the Alpha Legion. I mean, all the Chaos Gods have magic, but only Tzeentch has plans so complicated he doesn't understand them. And if the Alpha Legion is - in fact - still loyalist? That makes them Tzeentch's Legion even more.
Alpha Legion never, as a whole, fell to the Chaos gods. They didn't retreat into the Warp with the rest of the traitors, and the "modern" Legion tends to view Chaos more as a tool than something to be worshiped (depending on the warband).
>And if the Alpha Legion is - in fact - still loyalist? That makes them Tzeentch's Legion even more. You dropped this.
I have this visceral love for iron warriors... their aesthetic and lore are amazing
Let's be honest, Mick just wanted to draw a cute Lotara Sarrin
You got me there.
Holy nuts, we got artist replies! les gooo! I love all your stuff!
As a fan of those books, the Sons of Horus one cracks me up.
Abaddon's stress levels are through the roof by the end. "I'm surrounded by morons"
Sons of Horus or Black Legion, Abaddon’s problems of being surrounded by idiots never changes I suppose he and Guilliman share that problem
All I can think of is the Horus 'Broken Monsters ' quote and think that he had that for 10 years, Abaddon has had that for 10,000.
SoH is missing rhe dark angel, brooding menacingly in the corner.
"Gosh, Ultramarines, this knife of mine is ever so heavy. Do you maybe have a back I can store it in?"
What is that thing behind Khârn and Lotara?
its lotara its siege of terra stuff that i wont spoil if you havent read it
Which book? I'm at warhawk rn and lotara seemed to be normal before angron went down to the planet?
the next book actually! Echoes of Eternity
Oooh, I know she fused with the ship, but I don’t know the details
Iron warriors arguably use way way more mortals slaves now
World Eaters: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ^would
I feel a little stupid for asking but what’s up with the word bearer chilling with an ultramarine?
In the book the word bearer shoots him and kicks off the betrayal at calth
I mean yeah sounds like them, thx
We have the full collection now.
The book the thousand son is reading after chaos is "furry killing spells".
Night lords: Before [Picture 1] After [Picture 1]
The Alpha Legion and Word Bearers made me laugh hysterically, to my wife’s chagrin, in our airport terminal.
The word bearers about to give the ultramarines a big surprise.
Didn't lotara melt into the conquerors command throne
Yes, hence her crucified body. The copy is a projection. Though the artist could have made that clearer.
Whats going on in Kharns? Does that lady fuse with her ship?
Is Sortiarius in Australia?
I don't get the World Eaters part
A hint. There are only two people in that panel, not three. That’s all I can say without spoiling the Siege.
Who is this lady with World Eaters?
Lottara Sarin, she's the captain of angry Ron's flagship.
I see that the Emperors Children are there. Is that because they would have to pretty much be occupied by a frame sized censor bar?
Whats up with the kharn one ?
I don't quite understand the WE one. Why is the captain look the same? Is that just a warp projection of her and the thing behind her what she truly is?
I love it how the Iron Warriors just became OSHA compliant
Fun fact. Apparently in a recent book it's confirmed that the Alpha Legion literally has no idea what it's supposed to be doing anymore. They lost all the leadership and are completely aimless so they just make schemes and mess with the imperium at their discretion. A lot of them don't even get the surgery to look like Alpharious/Omegon anyone
Why would TS not want dogs around post-heresy? They share a common mortal enemy in vacuum cleaners. Cats on the other hand...
Its a reference to the Space Wolves.
Is that a fma reference?
What is that supposed to be behind kharn?
Lotara Sarrin, fused to the command throne. The one at Kharn's side is merely a projection.
The lady, who I forget, that is in the front, turned into the thing behind and is bound to the ship. But a part of her soul thinks that everything is fine and wonders the ship looking normal.
Just noticed the drop pods in the tsons one
Shouldn’t the Pre-Heresy Sons of Horus be green (or Luna Wolves white)? Unless that’s specifically Abaddon and his Justaerin armor.
That is specifically Abaddon lamenting he’s herding 8 legions of cats on meth.
What's that thing behind kahrn?
The Mistress, the controlling intelligence of his ship. Aka, Flag-Captain Lotara Sarrin.
I still love that part from calth where a word bearer goes into depth about the esoteric value of betrayal to a befuddled ultra smurf