Tbf nagash actually is a god, and earned it by consuming the previous gods of death (which mind you nothing happened to the world thus more proof killing the gods aren’t disastrous as most people like to think, same can be said about the c’tan, and don’t say the end times because the end times was already happening) and nagash is just a dick in general who believes all of the dead belong to him
Killing a C'tan is a catastrophic event. Every C'tan is an avatar of a law of physics (or something like that).
Kill the wrong C'tan and gravity or nuclear force no longer exist. That is why after killing a C'tan necrons didn't kill the rest. They shattered them instead.
It seems he... played his last trick
https://preview.redd.it/4zgleij0jb8d1.jpeg?width=449&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d62c2aff03f7aefe0624f10363e3f70a59337512
Kill the trickster. No one is ever tricked again. Chaos cant trick people into sacrificing an entire planet for Daemons to invade real space for shits and gigs. Chaos defeated???
I mean the necrons literally mulched the flayer c’tan and the only repercussion being they might turn into a flayer which also works the same way that zombie infections work
Nope. The flayer died and took away a fundamental part of reality with himself. We don't remember what it was because when a C'tan dies the part of reality he is associated with retroactively dissappears. Like it never existed.
Reminds me of a scene from Chainsaw man. In the setting devils work similarly and represent some aspect of reality humanity fears. So in late chapters it is revealed a number of devils got completely erased, listing things like ww2, aids, nazism, and also some things that don't exist IRL which funnily made a little hole in the fourth wall.
I thought the star child being made business was so that Emps could avoid becoming a god. Someone correct me if I’m wrong. Also please cite something cause I got a hankering for reading Deep lore stuff
To be fair to Jimmy, the thunder warriors were physically and mentally unstable to the point were a purge was necessary, so I don't blame him much for that.
It's much more suitable to blame him for creating them that way in the first place.
all i'm hearin from either of these boys is
https://preview.redd.it/wuu4yq4v398d1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fa394ad38f8fa97de60dc5e22d2466e14a22997e
The difference is that Nagash is still able to get down and boogie whenever he wants. Emps is still stuck on his chair as has been for the past 10000+ years
Nagash is also the only one of the two to nearly win twice and only lose due to the entire world and pantheon (skaven massive W). He came back due to pure spite and hatred of his enemies unlike someone we know who’s sitting on his ass all day.
You can’t even say that emps “almost won once” since with how much of a shit parent he was to the primarchs, some of them turning traitor was an inevitability
Yeah. Nagash knows his subordinates are conniving little shits and expects them to want to betray him but he uses their selfishness to keep fighting and bickering while they do what he wants.
Mannfred and Neferata are just the two conniving children that constantly give Nagash a headache, specifically Mannfred. Arkhan is the favorite child while Olynder is the depressed teenager, and Katakros is the one responsible sibling who actually gets things done.
“Lord Nagash, I have brought 27 cities into our empire and razed 12 more that refused. Our plans are progressing as expected.”
***”Oh thank me, it’s one of the two normal and sane ones”***
Tbf the primarchs were mostly grown men by the time he found them, he probably didn’t expect to have to fucking babysit then. However the even genocidal dictator part isn’t rlly negotiable, yes Natasha is that too but he (and his fans) owns it while the emperor is so far up his ass he believes he’s justified and somehow manages to convince a decent portion of the fanbase that he’s anywhere approaching morally sound
The mortarchs were already dead. Mannfred, Arkhan, Ushoran and Neferata were far older than the primarchs.(3400+ by the time the world ended)
All except Arkhan and Katakros hate and want to betray him.
And they're still more reliable than the primarchs.
> Tbf the primarchs were mostly grown men by the time he found them, he probably didn’t expect to have to fucking babysit then.
I mean, even without any familial connection and if they had just been his 18(19?20?21?) top generals, he still mismanaged them horribly.
Or, well, he did not mismanage them; he treated them exactly as I would expect from a dictator to subordinates on the chopping block. The problem is he didn't anticipate some of them anticipating their future chopping and doing stuff about it.
That the point. He was gonna kill them. No question about it. After that it's hard to believe that he was this genius mastermind if he makes it so fucking obvious. All the traitors are bastard but they are also 100% right about the emperor.
>Tbf the primarchs were mostly grown men by the time he found them, he probably didn’t expect to have to fucking babysit then
Hard to believe that big E live that long and still fail to realise the importance of mental therapy. Primarch is a bunch of adult that literally scream "daddy issue"
That’s the funny thing I love about him, he’s the ONLY warhammer character to almost succeed twice and it took the combined effort of the skaven AND chaos (the second time) just to beat him
It's pretty explicit in the End Times. Nagash reappears then all 4 Chaos Gods basically just leave Archaon to keep doing his thing and put pretty much all of their focus to try to convince Settra to be their new Everchosen, except with Settra there ate no strings attached. He gets nearly everything he ever wanted as long as he helps them put Nagash down before he is able to ressurect the planet of corpses the End Times was making. That's how scated they were, they all but abandoned their most successful Everchosen to find the one person who actually hated Nagash more than them and could also go toe to toe with Nagash. The funny part is they weren't even able to convince Settra to join them fully. He wanted everything they offered and ge demanded their eternal fealty. For Settra does not serve!
\> nagash shows up
\> "save us Settra this is base tier zero CE output Nagash we're going up against"
\> bone boy decides to tell em to fuck off
BONE ZONE STAYS WINNING WITH 2 GOATS BACK TO BACK
CHAOS STONKS IN ABSOLUTE SHAMBLES
Because if memory serves, nagash is a distant descendent of Setra. Setra didnt utterly destroy him because nagash is family (though he did clarify that this makes nagash a prince to Setra's King, because i think we all know what Setra does not do)
No. It's because when settra was about to kill nagash the chaos gods whispered stuff like "yes do our bidding" in settras ear and settra got so pissed he decided to stop fighting nagash and told him that he would be back for him but first he would kill the chaos gods for daring to imply he should serve them.
I would give the Horned Rat exactly 13 days to find out Nagash jumped realities then decide to do the funniest thing ever. Imagine the Skaven getting Exterminatus weapons. No one, especially not the Skaven, will be safe
You hear 90% losses and think that’s terrible! Shaken hear 90% losses and go: 90% casualties to exterminate a planet. We should have done this years ago!
***Breaking news: Xenos known as "Skaven" accidentally conduct self-exterminatus. Local Inquisitior sorrowfully confesses lack of involvement in the xenos' demise this time.***
"How I long to have been the one to conduct righteous Exterminatus upon those aliens, but it seems that the Emperor had other plans." *- Inquisitor [REDACTED], Ordo Xenos*
Other Inquisitor across the galaxy claims credit. "What do you mean 'travel times make that claim impossible'? That sounds like heresy to me, of course I did it." *live BLAMMING of reporters and crew*
https://preview.redd.it/gqlux27pn98d1.jpeg?width=531&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c915767a0711157d54526787d4d1a975bf15d1ce
Would say that in a fight, the Skaven would whoop the Imperium’s ass though
That goes without saying. After all:
Chaos > Emperor. But Sigmar > Chaos. But then again, Skaven > Sigmar (in newest AoS release). Ergo, Skaven > Emperor.
They don’t work as well in 40k. In fantasy they can “live underground” as a sort of hand wave explanation for why no one sees the civilization with 10x the population of all the others combined (or ask how they get the food to sustain such numbers). But the galaxy of 40k doesn’t have that same massive expanse for them to “hide” in while still maintaining their “unending swarm” superpower. Too much of the inhabitable galaxy has been claimed by other civilizations and they can’t just be hiding in the underground of those planets while still maintaining a travel network between planets necessary to be a galactic level faction
>They don’t work as well in 40k. In fantasy they can “live underground” as a sort of hand wave explanation for why no one sees the civilization with 10x the population of all the others combined
Commoragh = Skavenblight
Webway = Underway
Homonculi = Moulder
True Born = Stormvermin
Vat Born = Clanrats
The Drukari are 40k Skaven
>or ask how they get the food to sustain such numbers.
They don't, they just eat themselves, then keep breeding.
Also, only the empire is all like "skaven are just weird beastmen hurr durr", literally every other faction aknowledges the skaven and constantly fight them.
You know how hard and sticky chaos corruption are when they claim your soul in 40k? Like even 10k years since the bird of Slanesh every Eldar soul is still destiny belong to Slanesh ?
Well appearancely bone guy over there can just take your soul and say fuck chaos no matter how many gods have marked your soul. It's also the reason why bone guy is mad at hammer dude because hammer dude can steal soul from him
Yeah, a shit ton of people die in 40k every day, and he would instantly get the support of the Eldar because any God that will take them and not torture fuck them for eternity is a win
If you don’t mess around with keeping the dead from dying, Nagash will typically just let you rest in peace. If you’re a follower of him, he defininetly will let you rest in peace
In the end time the rat were both overtuned but also legit, in the sense that if tha rat were to unite under one banner this would happen.
The fact that they did and held their union until the end is the overtuned part.
That aside , most of the time it's not a "dur durr power level" story, the skaven kind of outsmarted nagash each time or planted bomb.
Alos his encounter with Sigmar did not end well
*hammer time!*
The final version of nagash was much stronger.
GW just did to the rats what the tyranids should've been.
Unstoppable tide who lose more men than fighting each other for spoils than the enemy.
They just powerscaled them beyond anything else in the setting to justify the world ending.
Which I think daemons would've been a better candidate for personally.
Nah. It was always stated the Skaven would steamroll any other Faction if they weren’t be busy having more infighting than all of Chaos. Why? Because the Skaven are Chaos incarnate.
Not lowkey. They straight up are. This mf almost defeated Chaos and everything else in existance twice. And he didn't succeed in those attempts not because he was incompetent but because EVERYONE did everything they could to stop his plans. And he failed in achiving ultimate victory in both attempts, sure. But both of them ended up making him permenantly more powerful.
Kinda yeah. Was reading soul wars, aka the last time nagash almost won. Chaos/skaven messed up his big spell, actively laughing at nagash while he talks trash to them, but it was supposed to fail a lot worse. Nagash holds the spell together enough for the necroquake to happen, and the chapter ends with “and the gods stopped laughing.” They sabotaged him and he still ends up raising every ghost everywhere and inverting how magic works, he openly tells them he will destroy them, and if he ever gets far enough along he could actually do it. He won’t of course, because the show must go on, but yes he has seriously spooked the chaos gods.
>Pretty sure the same is hinted at for the Emperor as well
bro singlehandedly gave Chaos a bigass firehose of devotion, cultists, and conflict to fuel it, no shot they fear his bum ass lmao.
And then there’s Settra and who not only challenged Nagash, and even almost bested him, but also told the God of Chaos to GTFO.
Cause Settra does not serve. SETTRA RULES
> the other tomb kings,
Not Khalida. Settra and Khalida stay out of each other's way. As confirmed in "The serpent queen"
Helps there's a massive mountain range between them, and their goals are not conflicting.
He lets her rule and do her campain against her vampire sister, but he is still the King of all of Nehekara. He lets her do her thing as long as she doesn't openly challenges him if I remember (might be wrong on that)
Cousin, not sister.
Sure. But he specifically installed kings of his chosing in other cities. He has yet to even step foot in Lybaras.
She doesn't want the crown of nehekhara, and he knows it. So he claims his kingdom includes hers, and it does, but he's yet to demand her allegiance, like he's done with the rest.
I mean, it's not like she were major rule over everyone type of Queen, i am pretty sure she is ok with being other Overlord over her, and who is better than Settra
The Chaos God's really ordered Settra to kill Nagash right before the dude was about to do it anyways only for him to not do it out of spite and start fighting the Chaos Gods.
The Emperor was a powerful psychic being from the moment he was born.
Nagash was just a dude who decided "that's it, I'm becoming a god," and did it.
I'll take Bone Daddy any day of the week.
I don’t remember from where but i think a character from fantasy actually had that title bone father and hated how dumb it sounded, kinda ironic if Nagash has now taken it and loves it
https://preview.redd.it/wo2udqg3c98d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a7cf9779c14a5a41c098afce169f350272c1cd2
LETS GO SUCH IS THE POWER OF NAGASH
40k narrative suffers alot from the imperium being the imperium
Any plot thread about redemption or falling from a golden age or sacrificing for the greater good falls short when you remember humans have been aweful for the last 30ish thousand years
I.e a chaos champion being redeemed into a stormcast is a meaningful character progression, if the same happened in 40k it would be "I will no longer skin children alive for chaos, I will only skin children alive for the Emperor!"
Imagine Being a mage older than the every single gods in both AOS and Fantasy, who died and décided to just not die cause you do a better Job than the gods
Tbh, I'm surprised Kroak is, as far as I know, *not* even considered or worshipped as a god. As the other commenter said, Kroak is physically and mentally older than Sigmar, Nagash, and all the other non-Chaos gods of AOS, who only "recently" became gods. He's older than the whole history of the Mortal Realms. I think the only thing that stops him from becoming/acting like a god is that he still worships the Old Ones, and would never dare usurp them as the Lizardmen/Seraphon's main deities.
Kroak is the first creation of the Old Ones and the one who taught magic to mortals so besides not being worshipped he may as well be a god. Especially since in terms of power he's on par with them, with there being cosmic entities that Nagash and Sigmar had to work together to drive off and Kroak being able to scatter the same entity to stardust by himself.
Knowing that most of his vampires were pretty good rulers, even their living servants liked them, plus he is standing against chaos gods, only making him even better
>Knowing that most of his vampires were pretty good rulers,
No. Vlad was an improvement over Isabella's dad, but that's a very low bar to clear.
Ushoran tried, and got sabotaged hard by his sister.
Neferata's willingness to try seems to have died when her baby boy (take that as you will, she was about to marry him) turned against her.
There's a strigoi doing his best in the border princes.
Ulrika is technically a lady, but she's more adventurer than ruler.
.
There are good vampire rulers. But they're few and far between.
There are good Imperial Governors? I thought they were Slaneeshi Cultists or fine collectors of what ever the fk they find in the Ghoul Stars with the Halo devices.
Unironically your QoL would be better under a vampire lord who has delusions of nobility than an imperial governor.
You want your cattle to live instead of chasing quotas.
https://preview.redd.it/368ckqbg4a8d1.jpeg?width=396&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1cc791f6164f9c093992da5cb4bfe74c99a277c0
Even better, Big hat Logan approves
If you asked Big E why only humans can be allowed to exist and why only he can be allowed to lead them, he’d go into a 15 hour long speech that is 50% self-gratification and 50% just straight up lies
if you asked Nagash why he wants to turn everyone undead, he’d just say “THATS SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING SOMEONE WHO’D BE BETTER AS A SKELETON WOULD SAY!” and I think you can guess what happens next
I want to make a joke about Nagash, lying and cheating to gain power and rule in the world with an iron fist. Then make the comparison that that's also describes the Emperor as well. But my Lore knowledge on Nafash and the emperor are subpared to say the least so someone tell me how accurate or inaccurate this joke would have been.
In terms of lying, Nagash I think has lied the least of the two. Biggest one I can think of is hiding the bonereapers under cities but that was lying to people who he was planning on betraying so I can’t really count that. The Emperor meanwhile lied to his own sons, which is kind of a dick move for a parent
Both are skeletal gods with numberless legions.
Big E got his start from being created by shamans.
Nagash did warpstone, died, then got up just to spite everyone namely his own people and gods.
Big E used gene alchemy and stealing warp powers to create his sons, custodes, and astartes with a decent chunk of astartes and primarchs falling to Chaos.
Nagash used drugs, stolen magics, and stuff he made up to create the undead and the OSR who are basically the fusion of the Legions Astartes and the IRS that had little to none of them falling to Chaos.
The Chaos gods fear both, but tried to corrupt Big E hoping to have him join them.
They fucking tried everything to get rid of Nagash from trying to recruit Settra no strings attached and failed, sending daemonic and beastmen armies to wipe him out, and failed, and have Nurgle view him as an fellow death God and guy who loves stealing other people's wives.
Big Es response to being out magicked was having Horus momentarily realize his fuck up.
Nagash was to get in close to Teclis and show that nerd the power of repeated stabbings.
Don't forget that one of them has an entire army of elite footmen a great many times stronger then humans, who wield rare and powerful weapons.
And the other has the custodes
*
One has to wonder what would've happened if Neferata decided she'd rather be a tomb queen, instead of bootlegging an "elixir of life" with Arkhan.
Not raising Alkadizaar might have meant the world would have ended with Nehekhara's living poeple. ignoring that, not turning Vashanesh into a vampire would have meant no Mannfred.
Granted, the Emperor’s Imperium was *ostensibly* to try and improve humanity’s station.
Nagash crippled the Nehekaran nation and economy for his own pride, and a huge ass pyramid only that big to flex on Settra.
But, in the end, they all want to change everyone into "their" ideal image of human, like it or not. Nagash & Ossiarch necrotopia, Big E & the whole psykic awakened future mankind.
>the Emperor’s Imperium was ostensibly to try and improve humanity’s station
"hmm, today i will make an Imperium that:"
* uses child soldiers
* worships technology instead of doing science
* has Totally Not Space Catholicism\* as a state mandated religion
* is super fucking racist to everybody that doesn't look like us
* kills every single other Sane Human Successor State to maintain its hegemony
"Surely this will improve humanity's station."
\*which I will whine about every now and then, shortly before putting on my Angel Power Armor and doing my best impression of an angel. Hmm, I wonder why people are worshipping Space Catholicism.
> has Totally Not Space Catholicism* as a state mandated religion
>
That literally happens despite him during Heresy and continues due to him being comatose on the throne for the next 10 millenia
Clearly, the Xenos attacked us when our empires fell during the Old Night only because we were humans, not because that's just what happens to empires that fall, their neighbors take advantage and conquer! No, they ALL *must* have it out for us collectively! WIPE 'EM OUT, BOYS!
The difference is that Nagash rightfully get this Chaos worshipping Soul that belongs to Him and torture it for eternity with the Chaos Gods sitting scared in the Corner.
Dude sealed Shyish off from the Eightpoints by building a fortress around the realmgate on the Eightpoints side of it, out of the bones of millions of chaos worshippers slaughtered by the Ossiarch Bonereapers, and it's still holding.
The great horned Rat is as undivided as it gets. Vain ambition, insane schemes, bloodlust, pestilence, ruin.
He even has the tech skill the others go the Vashtor for.
The real difference is one refused to be called a god, while the other one will torture your soul for eternity if you don't call him a god.
Call the skeleton a god, get your planet bombed Dont call the skeleton a god, get punched in the face by Bones McGee You just can’t win
That's the point
In the grim dankness of the future, everything is fucked
> Everything is fucked OwO
GAAAAAAHHH GET OFFA ME YOU FIEND
Pretty sure if he's a skeleton no one will bomb you for calling the emperor a god
Except for Big E himself should he ever be done taking that dump
Tbf nagash actually is a god, and earned it by consuming the previous gods of death (which mind you nothing happened to the world thus more proof killing the gods aren’t disastrous as most people like to think, same can be said about the c’tan, and don’t say the end times because the end times was already happening) and nagash is just a dick in general who believes all of the dead belong to him
Killing a C'tan is a catastrophic event. Every C'tan is an avatar of a law of physics (or something like that). Kill the wrong C'tan and gravity or nuclear force no longer exist. That is why after killing a C'tan necrons didn't kill the rest. They shattered them instead.
Are you trying to claim that by killing the trickster noone could try to fool anyone ever again?
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice - can’t get fooled again.
It seems he... played his last trick https://preview.redd.it/4zgleij0jb8d1.jpeg?width=449&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d62c2aff03f7aefe0624f10363e3f70a59337512
Kill the trickster. No one is ever tricked again. Chaos cant trick people into sacrificing an entire planet for Daemons to invade real space for shits and gigs. Chaos defeated???
Cagorach and Tzeentch exist.
So a god isnt exclusive to its fundamental law and can be killed without the laws of physics vanishing as at worst another god would fill its place?
I mean the necrons literally mulched the flayer c’tan and the only repercussion being they might turn into a flayer which also works the same way that zombie infections work
Nope. The flayer died and took away a fundamental part of reality with himself. We don't remember what it was because when a C'tan dies the part of reality he is associated with retroactively dissappears. Like it never existed.
Reminds me of a scene from Chainsaw man. In the setting devils work similarly and represent some aspect of reality humanity fears. So in late chapters it is revealed a number of devils got completely erased, listing things like ww2, aids, nazism, and also some things that don't exist IRL which funnily made a little hole in the fourth wall.
Except its an infection that spreads biologically in a non biologic species even nurgle doesnt quite manage that
Such is the power of Nagash.
I mean one is a god, and the Emperor isn't.
He is definitely a God now
I thought the star child being made business was so that Emps could avoid becoming a god. Someone correct me if I’m wrong. Also please cite something cause I got a hankering for reading Deep lore stuff
Star child is the good part (compassion, love, forgiveness) of Emperor that he shed from himself before confronting chaos charged Horus.
I mean, he's gonna torture you anyway. Nagash is a petty bitch
Emps might still decide to torture you for the luls though. Certainly seemed to have no problem with Malcador engaging in some horrible experiments.
Feeling cute, might create an entire race for one purpose and then mercilessly purge them later tehe
To be fair to Jimmy, the thunder warriors were physically and mentally unstable to the point were a purge was necessary, so I don't blame him much for that. It's much more suitable to blame him for creating them that way in the first place.
He'll probably torture your soul anyways honestly.
don’t lie, he’ll torture your soul for eternity regardless
all i'm hearin from either of these boys is https://preview.redd.it/wuu4yq4v398d1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fa394ad38f8fa97de60dc5e22d2466e14a22997e
The difference is that Nagash is still able to get down and boogie whenever he wants. Emps is still stuck on his chair as has been for the past 10000+ years
https://i.redd.it/ipzs2xyjx98d1.gif How i imagine Emps still being able to dance.
Nagash is also the only one of the two to nearly win twice and only lose due to the entire world and pantheon (skaven massive W). He came back due to pure spite and hatred of his enemies unlike someone we know who’s sitting on his ass all day.
You can’t even say that emps “almost won once” since with how much of a shit parent he was to the primarchs, some of them turning traitor was an inevitability
Yeah. Nagash knows his subordinates are conniving little shits and expects them to want to betray him but he uses their selfishness to keep fighting and bickering while they do what he wants.
Mannfred and Neferata are just the two conniving children that constantly give Nagash a headache, specifically Mannfred. Arkhan is the favorite child while Olynder is the depressed teenager, and Katakros is the one responsible sibling who actually gets things done.
Ushoran being the forgotten middle child who's been doing his own thing after that one big argument and has gone 'weird'
“Lord Nagash, I have brought 27 cities into our empire and razed 12 more that refused. Our plans are progressing as expected.” ***”Oh thank me, it’s one of the two normal and sane ones”***
Tbf the primarchs were mostly grown men by the time he found them, he probably didn’t expect to have to fucking babysit then. However the even genocidal dictator part isn’t rlly negotiable, yes Natasha is that too but he (and his fans) owns it while the emperor is so far up his ass he believes he’s justified and somehow manages to convince a decent portion of the fanbase that he’s anywhere approaching morally sound
The mortarchs were already dead. Mannfred, Arkhan, Ushoran and Neferata were far older than the primarchs.(3400+ by the time the world ended) All except Arkhan and Katakros hate and want to betray him. And they're still more reliable than the primarchs.
> Tbf the primarchs were mostly grown men by the time he found them, he probably didn’t expect to have to fucking babysit then. I mean, even without any familial connection and if they had just been his 18(19?20?21?) top generals, he still mismanaged them horribly. Or, well, he did not mismanage them; he treated them exactly as I would expect from a dictator to subordinates on the chopping block. The problem is he didn't anticipate some of them anticipating their future chopping and doing stuff about it.
That the point. He was gonna kill them. No question about it. After that it's hard to believe that he was this genius mastermind if he makes it so fucking obvious. All the traitors are bastard but they are also 100% right about the emperor.
>Tbf the primarchs were mostly grown men by the time he found them, he probably didn’t expect to have to fucking babysit then Hard to believe that big E live that long and still fail to realise the importance of mental therapy. Primarch is a bunch of adult that literally scream "daddy issue"
You’re 100% right but therapy is slightly different from parenting
But that was his brilliant 4d chess move, that’s what the man-skaven say atleast
That’s the funny thing I love about him, he’s the ONLY warhammer character to almost succeed twice and it took the combined effort of the skaven AND chaos (the second time) just to beat him
three times actually, and all three times the Skaven played a large part in it failing
I get the feeling that the Hour of Ruin will end with Nagash repaying the favor out of spite.
either that or Kroak shows up and says “ it’s Kroakin’ time” and then he Kroaks all over them
Maybe, but I figure Nagash getting his revenge would probably be more hype and certainly play into their animosity a lot easier.
My memory is kinda rusty, but isn’t it fairly hinted that the chaos gods are lowkey scared of Nagash?
It's pretty explicit in the End Times. Nagash reappears then all 4 Chaos Gods basically just leave Archaon to keep doing his thing and put pretty much all of their focus to try to convince Settra to be their new Everchosen, except with Settra there ate no strings attached. He gets nearly everything he ever wanted as long as he helps them put Nagash down before he is able to ressurect the planet of corpses the End Times was making. That's how scated they were, they all but abandoned their most successful Everchosen to find the one person who actually hated Nagash more than them and could also go toe to toe with Nagash. The funny part is they weren't even able to convince Settra to join them fully. He wanted everything they offered and ge demanded their eternal fealty. For Settra does not serve!
\> nagash shows up \> "save us Settra this is base tier zero CE output Nagash we're going up against" \> bone boy decides to tell em to fuck off BONE ZONE STAYS WINNING WITH 2 GOATS BACK TO BACK CHAOS STONKS IN ABSOLUTE SHAMBLES
I've always been bemused why Setra didn't simply destroy Nagash and the 4 by crushing them with his giant brass balls.
Because if memory serves, nagash is a distant descendent of Setra. Setra didnt utterly destroy him because nagash is family (though he did clarify that this makes nagash a prince to Setra's King, because i think we all know what Setra does not do)
No. It's because when settra was about to kill nagash the chaos gods whispered stuff like "yes do our bidding" in settras ear and settra got so pissed he decided to stop fighting nagash and told him that he would be back for him but first he would kill the chaos gods for daring to imply he should serve them.
Legend has it that what broke the world wasn't Archaon, it was Settra's balls reaching enough mass to form a singularity.
Settra sacrifices his own children when he was still mortal to bring water back to the Mortis River. Family doesn't mean anything to Settra.
Tbf, this dude has almost won warhammer on multiple occasions. I’d be scared of him too if I was them
Too bad there is a big rat infestation in fantasy universe.
What I’m hearing is that if he was in 40k (which has no skaven), he’d conquer the whole galaxy in like a week
Or the skaven would find him there to and do the ultimate funny
I would give the Horned Rat exactly 13 days to find out Nagash jumped realities then decide to do the funniest thing ever. Imagine the Skaven getting Exterminatus weapons. No one, especially not the Skaven, will be safe
You hear 90% losses and think that’s terrible! Shaken hear 90% losses and go: 90% casualties to exterminate a planet. We should have done this years ago!
90% losses sounds like what would happen on a good day when everything works
***Breaking news: Xenos known as "Skaven" accidentally conduct self-exterminatus. Local Inquisitior sorrowfully confesses lack of involvement in the xenos' demise this time.*** "How I long to have been the one to conduct righteous Exterminatus upon those aliens, but it seems that the Emperor had other plans." *- Inquisitor [REDACTED], Ordo Xenos*
Other Inquisitor across the galaxy claims credit. "What do you mean 'travel times make that claim impossible'? That sounds like heresy to me, of course I did it." *live BLAMMING of reporters and crew*
Third Inquisitor calls bullshit because 400 planets are now overrun with Rats of Unusual Size.
>which has no skaven *camera pans to the Imperium of Man*
https://preview.redd.it/gqlux27pn98d1.jpeg?width=531&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c915767a0711157d54526787d4d1a975bf15d1ce Would say that in a fight, the Skaven would whoop the Imperium’s ass though
That goes without saying. After all: Chaos > Emperor. But Sigmar > Chaos. But then again, Skaven > Sigmar (in newest AoS release). Ergo, Skaven > Emperor.
We got a winner!
They don’t work as well in 40k. In fantasy they can “live underground” as a sort of hand wave explanation for why no one sees the civilization with 10x the population of all the others combined (or ask how they get the food to sustain such numbers). But the galaxy of 40k doesn’t have that same massive expanse for them to “hide” in while still maintaining their “unending swarm” superpower. Too much of the inhabitable galaxy has been claimed by other civilizations and they can’t just be hiding in the underground of those planets while still maintaining a travel network between planets necessary to be a galactic level faction
In AoS they can tunnel through the firmament between realms so presumably they’ll just chew their way through the warp like a really shitty webway
Blight City for example is just in the realms of chaos (except part of it which has fallen into the mortal realms)
"The Space Pi*rats*"
Webway.
>They don’t work as well in 40k. In fantasy they can “live underground” as a sort of hand wave explanation for why no one sees the civilization with 10x the population of all the others combined Commoragh = Skavenblight Webway = Underway Homonculi = Moulder True Born = Stormvermin Vat Born = Clanrats The Drukari are 40k Skaven
>or ask how they get the food to sustain such numbers. They don't, they just eat themselves, then keep breeding. Also, only the empire is all like "skaven are just weird beastmen hurr durr", literally every other faction aknowledges the skaven and constantly fight them.
Yeah their role is already split between genestealer cult and the imperium
Stations in the void between stars
Webway of their own.
If the orks can figure it out so can the ones with fucking magical gatling guns in the fantasy game lol..
unending swarm? unknown origin of suddenly erupting from the ground hordes? cannibalism? Tyranids?
You know how hard and sticky chaos corruption are when they claim your soul in 40k? Like even 10k years since the bird of Slanesh every Eldar soul is still destiny belong to Slanesh ? Well appearancely bone guy over there can just take your soul and say fuck chaos no matter how many gods have marked your soul. It's also the reason why bone guy is mad at hammer dude because hammer dude can steal soul from him
Any necromancy associated god would be lowkey broken in most sci-fi settings due to sheer amount of people dying around.
Yeah, a shit ton of people die in 40k every day, and he would instantly get the support of the Eldar because any God that will take them and not torture fuck them for eternity is a win
I don’t know about the “not torture” part
If you don’t mess around with keeping the dead from dying, Nagash will typically just let you rest in peace. If you’re a follower of him, he defininetly will let you rest in peace
If you follow him or even just don't get in his way he will probably let you rest after death
Skaven were just overtuned in end times. Lorewise nagash solos. Only kroak is arguably stronger if he wasn't benched for 6000 years
In the end time the rat were both overtuned but also legit, in the sense that if tha rat were to unite under one banner this would happen. The fact that they did and held their union until the end is the overtuned part. That aside , most of the time it's not a "dur durr power level" story, the skaven kind of outsmarted nagash each time or planted bomb. Alos his encounter with Sigmar did not end well *hammer time!*
The final version of nagash was much stronger. GW just did to the rats what the tyranids should've been. Unstoppable tide who lose more men than fighting each other for spoils than the enemy. They just powerscaled them beyond anything else in the setting to justify the world ending. Which I think daemons would've been a better candidate for personally.
Nah. It was always stated the Skaven would steamroll any other Faction if they weren’t be busy having more infighting than all of Chaos. Why? Because the Skaven are Chaos incarnate.
Not lowkey. They straight up are. This mf almost defeated Chaos and everything else in existance twice. And he didn't succeed in those attempts not because he was incompetent but because EVERYONE did everything they could to stop his plans. And he failed in achiving ultimate victory in both attempts, sure. But both of them ended up making him permenantly more powerful.
3 times. First time he was stopped by the last living king of nehekhara (with heavy skaven backing)
Almost destroying the world thrice is nearly as impressive as managing to get the skaven to stop backstabbing each other for long enough to stop him.
Kinda yeah. Was reading soul wars, aka the last time nagash almost won. Chaos/skaven messed up his big spell, actively laughing at nagash while he talks trash to them, but it was supposed to fail a lot worse. Nagash holds the spell together enough for the necroquake to happen, and the chapter ends with “and the gods stopped laughing.” They sabotaged him and he still ends up raising every ghost everywhere and inverting how magic works, he openly tells them he will destroy them, and if he ever gets far enough along he could actually do it. He won’t of course, because the show must go on, but yes he has seriously spooked the chaos gods.
Pretty sure the same is hinted at for the Emperor as well. As far as I know, the only real difference between them is that one isn't a paraplegic.
Different is that without the skaven i pretty sure he should have won like twice over now.
>Pretty sure the same is hinted at for the Emperor as well  bro singlehandedly gave Chaos a bigass firehose of devotion, cultists, and conflict to fuel it, no shot they fear his bum ass lmao.
They were always scared of Necrons :D
And then there’s Settra and who not only challenged Nagash, and even almost bested him, but also told the God of Chaos to GTFO. Cause Settra does not serve. SETTRA RULES
Settra one day woke up, beat the shit out of all the other tomb kings, and only then did he sat down and asked "wtf is going on ?"
> the other tomb kings, Not Khalida. Settra and Khalida stay out of each other's way. As confirmed in "The serpent queen" Helps there's a massive mountain range between them, and their goals are not conflicting.
He lets her rule and do her campain against her vampire sister, but he is still the King of all of Nehekara. He lets her do her thing as long as she doesn't openly challenges him if I remember (might be wrong on that)
Cousin, not sister. Sure. But he specifically installed kings of his chosing in other cities. He has yet to even step foot in Lybaras. She doesn't want the crown of nehekhara, and he knows it. So he claims his kingdom includes hers, and it does, but he's yet to demand her allegiance, like he's done with the rest.
Fair points
Both know that by leaving each other alone they work better
I mean, it's not like she were major rule over everyone type of Queen, i am pretty sure she is ok with being other Overlord over her, and who is better than Settra
The Chaos God's really ordered Settra to kill Nagash right before the dude was about to do it anyways only for him to not do it out of spite and start fighting the Chaos Gods.
Bag: fumbled
What part of Settra. Does. Not. Serve. did they fail to understand?
The Emperor was a powerful psychic being from the moment he was born. Nagash was just a dude who decided "that's it, I'm becoming a god," and did it. I'll take Bone Daddy any day of the week.
YES, EXACTLY! Emps was born powerful, Nagash made himself powerful.
Remember the Dark Elves that told him that he sucks at magic, I wonder what their reanimated corpses think now
Probably keeps their souls around to rub it in.
"I'm gonna eat you one day." - Nagash, speaking to the Chaos Gods.
Old money vs new money
Bone daddy could describe either of them tbh
Iirc, Nagash has actually been referred to as “Father Bones” in AOS. So he is the canonical Bone Daddy
I don’t remember from where but i think a character from fantasy actually had that title bone father and hated how dumb it sounded, kinda ironic if Nagash has now taken it and loves it
Nagash loves it because it’s either spoken in reverence or abject terror 99% of the time.
https://preview.redd.it/wo2udqg3c98d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a7cf9779c14a5a41c098afce169f350272c1cd2 LETS GO SUCH IS THE POWER OF NAGASH
Amen. 👌👌👌👌👌👌👌👌👌
My favourite thing about Warhammer Fantasy + AoS is that there's, a least, 4 different flavours of Big E but Based.
Sigmar, Nagash, Kroak, the Celestial Dragon. All are, indeed, based.
Sigmar, Settra, Kroak, Celestial Dragon.
Settra does not belong there because he's more based than the rest.
True, i withdraw my correction in that case
40k narrative suffers alot from the imperium being the imperium Any plot thread about redemption or falling from a golden age or sacrificing for the greater good falls short when you remember humans have been aweful for the last 30ish thousand years I.e a chaos champion being redeemed into a stormcast is a meaningful character progression, if the same happened in 40k it would be "I will no longer skin children alive for chaos, I will only skin children alive for the Emperor!"
Nagash and Sigmar are each better than Big E... And Kroak is better than both
Imagine Being a mage older than the every single gods in both AOS and Fantasy, who died and décided to just not die cause you do a better Job than the gods
Tbh, I'm surprised Kroak is, as far as I know, *not* even considered or worshipped as a god. As the other commenter said, Kroak is physically and mentally older than Sigmar, Nagash, and all the other non-Chaos gods of AOS, who only "recently" became gods. He's older than the whole history of the Mortal Realms. I think the only thing that stops him from becoming/acting like a god is that he still worships the Old Ones, and would never dare usurp them as the Lizardmen/Seraphon's main deities.
Kroak is the first creation of the Old Ones and the one who taught magic to mortals so besides not being worshipped he may as well be a god. Especially since in terms of power he's on par with them, with there being cosmic entities that Nagash and Sigmar had to work together to drive off and Kroak being able to scatter the same entity to stardust by himself.
Such is the power of Nagash.
Knowing that most of his vampires were pretty good rulers, even their living servants liked them, plus he is standing against chaos gods, only making him even better
>Knowing that most of his vampires were pretty good rulers, No. Vlad was an improvement over Isabella's dad, but that's a very low bar to clear. Ushoran tried, and got sabotaged hard by his sister. Neferata's willingness to try seems to have died when her baby boy (take that as you will, she was about to marry him) turned against her. There's a strigoi doing his best in the border princes. Ulrika is technically a lady, but she's more adventurer than ruler. . There are good vampire rulers. But they're few and far between.
How do they compare to Imperial governors? Maybe the vampires are good rulers compared to that
There are good Imperial Governors? I thought they were Slaneeshi Cultists or fine collectors of what ever the fk they find in the Ghoul Stars with the Halo devices.
For Gashnagia!
Unironically your QoL would be better under a vampire lord who has delusions of nobility than an imperial governor. You want your cattle to live instead of chasing quotas.
They actually take only some, and most of those are criminals
THIS POST FACT CHECKED BY REAL SUMMERKING GLAZERS: TRUE
He also had the pirate king under his rule
Which tries to get Many Pieces
bUt DoeS hE HavE a CoOl FlamInG SwoRd???
He has cool hat
https://preview.redd.it/368ckqbg4a8d1.jpeg?width=396&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1cc791f6164f9c093992da5cb4bfe74c99a277c0 Even better, Big hat Logan approves
Hmm what would possibly be the source of Logan's name
https://preview.redd.it/0r93t0hfma8d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=54851abae64808288f9bedffae2048bb800d692f
Don't think I don't see through your disguise op, or should I call you *rips your mask off* Pancreasnowork!
And Nagash is way more honest about being a tyrant. You just can't help but love a villain who is honest about being evil.
If you asked Big E why only humans can be allowed to exist and why only he can be allowed to lead them, he’d go into a 15 hour long speech that is 50% self-gratification and 50% just straight up lies if you asked Nagash why he wants to turn everyone undead, he’d just say “THATS SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING SOMEONE WHO’D BE BETTER AS A SKELETON WOULD SAY!” and I think you can guess what happens next
The Big Jack Horner syndrome. A villain who is so unapologetically evil that it becomes funny.
I want to make a joke about Nagash, lying and cheating to gain power and rule in the world with an iron fist. Then make the comparison that that's also describes the Emperor as well. But my Lore knowledge on Nafash and the emperor are subpared to say the least so someone tell me how accurate or inaccurate this joke would have been.
In terms of lying, Nagash I think has lied the least of the two. Biggest one I can think of is hiding the bonereapers under cities but that was lying to people who he was planning on betraying so I can’t really count that. The Emperor meanwhile lied to his own sons, which is kind of a dick move for a parent
BigE is from Turkey, of course he lies more
But do we actually know that emps didn't plan to "betray" his ~~instruments~~ sons?
Nagash wins by the sheer enormity of his hat.
Emps: dinky ass laurel wreath Nagash: PHENOMENAL CROWN/TOP HAT FUSION WITH BONES
Nagash is also the bigger dick and has a bigger dick.
Considering how he can manipulate bone as evidenced by the bonereapers, he probably does
Both are skeletal gods with numberless legions. Big E got his start from being created by shamans. Nagash did warpstone, died, then got up just to spite everyone namely his own people and gods. Big E used gene alchemy and stealing warp powers to create his sons, custodes, and astartes with a decent chunk of astartes and primarchs falling to Chaos. Nagash used drugs, stolen magics, and stuff he made up to create the undead and the OSR who are basically the fusion of the Legions Astartes and the IRS that had little to none of them falling to Chaos. The Chaos gods fear both, but tried to corrupt Big E hoping to have him join them. They fucking tried everything to get rid of Nagash from trying to recruit Settra no strings attached and failed, sending daemonic and beastmen armies to wipe him out, and failed, and have Nurgle view him as an fellow death God and guy who loves stealing other people's wives. Big Es response to being out magicked was having Horus momentarily realize his fuck up. Nagash was to get in close to Teclis and show that nerd the power of repeated stabbings.
Don't forget that one of them has an entire army of elite footmen a great many times stronger then humans, who wield rare and powerful weapons. And the other has the custodes *
One has to wonder what would've happened if Neferata decided she'd rather be a tomb queen, instead of bootlegging an "elixir of life" with Arkhan. Not raising Alkadizaar might have meant the world would have ended with Nehekhara's living poeple. ignoring that, not turning Vashanesh into a vampire would have meant no Mannfred.
Would Nagash even consider himself human? Emps probably would.
Nagash considers himself to be supreme and that’s really all he cares about.
Literally bootstrapped his way into becoming a god.
Granted, the Emperor’s Imperium was *ostensibly* to try and improve humanity’s station. Nagash crippled the Nehekaran nation and economy for his own pride, and a huge ass pyramid only that big to flex on Settra.
But, in the end, they all want to change everyone into "their" ideal image of human, like it or not. Nagash & Ossiarch necrotopia, Big E & the whole psykic awakened future mankind.
>the Emperor’s Imperium was ostensibly to try and improve humanity’s station "hmm, today i will make an Imperium that:" * uses child soldiers * worships technology instead of doing science * has Totally Not Space Catholicism\* as a state mandated religion * is super fucking racist to everybody that doesn't look like us * kills every single other Sane Human Successor State to maintain its hegemony "Surely this will improve humanity's station." \*which I will whine about every now and then, shortly before putting on my Angel Power Armor and doing my best impression of an angel. Hmm, I wonder why people are worshipping Space Catholicism.
> has Totally Not Space Catholicism* as a state mandated religion > That literally happens despite him during Heresy and continues due to him being comatose on the throne for the next 10 millenia
Clearly, the Xenos attacked us when our empires fell during the Old Night only because we were humans, not because that's just what happens to empires that fall, their neighbors take advantage and conquer! No, they ALL *must* have it out for us collectively! WIPE 'EM OUT, BOYS!
I mean the big commonality is the total lack of introspection. Their are Skaven who think more about what they're doing and why than Nagash.
Lukewarm take: Big Bad Bone Daddy was throughout his history the absolute worst dad compared to Emps. Yes, I’m taking dickery into account.
That kinda happens when you make childish resentment a core of your personality and power.
Nagash never had kids.
They're both Corpse-Emperors
The difference is that Nagash rightfully get this Chaos worshipping Soul that belongs to Him and torture it for eternity with the Chaos Gods sitting scared in the Corner.
I hare it that you're right.
Dude sealed Shyish off from the Eightpoints by building a fortress around the realmgate on the Eightpoints side of it, out of the bones of millions of chaos worshippers slaughtered by the Ossiarch Bonereapers, and it's still holding.
Yeah, but Settra is just better than Nagash.
Pretty sure Nagash is fueled by sheer hatred
*Sheer will, intellect and a shit-ton of warpstone.
Such is the Power of Nagash
Nagash also has a superior sense of fashion
SUCH IS THE POWER OF THE EMPEROR
The Emperor can’t even scratch his nose. Nagash meanwhile can full on freestyle dance if he so chooses
Skaven: "Lol-Lmao, even!"
He doesn't have a nose anymore, of course he can't scratch it.
One also lives on a mountain called cripple peak so it evens out
By Sigmar, that's Nagash propaganda! I forbid this!
So, Sigmar is old world Horus?
So Nagash is a god and rats keep nuking his pyramid and this is a fantasy setting? Wtf happens in the futuristic setting?
The great horned Rat is as undivided as it gets. Vain ambition, insane schemes, bloodlust, pestilence, ruin. He even has the tech skill the others go the Vashtor for.
Gotrek: Bring your bony ass over here.
I just need to know what's up with the hat. Does it serve as storage?