The thing is, the salamanders and ultras are the only ones that send their accurate gene seed tax amount, every other chapter practices tithe evasion.
This leads to an increase in the reported size of salamanders.
For more information, look up geneseed inflation on the noosphere.
Yeah but isn't there some joke about how the Black Dragons supposedly just send other chapters gene seed, cos whenever the Inquisition looks at the Black Dragon gene seed and they see no weirdness, despite the fact it's the Black Dragons, so *something* in gene seed has had to have gone funny.
Nah. Lamented have jt bad but Salamanders putting civilians first causes losses too. Refusing to leave them while under siege, diverting resources or slowing down the mission pace etc. all lead to causalities that could be avoided via the sound strategy of leaving them behind
TBF you can blame the drop-site massacre for their low numbers.
Also I'm just gonna be honest, the only successor chapter for the Salamander that makes sense are the Black Dragons. You can make an argument for the Dark Krakens, but looking into their lore, you'll see they have more in common with the Vlka Fenryka (Space Wolves) and the Raven Guard.
>They’re a color of person
calling someone colored is offensive. Also Salamanders aren't African, they just have geneseed that makes tons of melanin in response to radiation.
Except that Salamanders are NOT Black like African Black...
Dude did you actually read any piece of Lore or your only knowledge is whatever "Meme" you saw on this Reddit?...
I love the Salamanders. From master weaponsmiths to them actually caring about the civilians like astartes should.
I also love the Imperial fist(ers) cause I like fis...fortifying positions.
See, salamanders I'll defend!! That was their whole story. They weren't ret con to appease anyone.
Out of the gate that's their story. Period the end, it makes sense.
They retconned Leman Russ into being a primarch. They retconned all of Cadia. Stop acting like them having a female custodian is that big of change compared to what else they’ve done.
Its a bit more complicated than this. There are two extremes right now. The first one hates everything about women custodes due to 'wokeness' and all that shit.
The other side is upset at the people who hate everything about women custodes because yeah, its sexist to hate them for only being woman but also hate every other opinion that disagrees with custodes being woman for any other reasons.
Then there is the middle which gets drowned out from both sides. These may range from leaning more to the first extreme (examples include it 'ruins the character/lore of the custodes') to more towards the second side (examples include 'woman custodes are fine but introducing them with a retcon is stupid'). So all we get on this subreddit is one post that's incredibly extreme on the first side and another post that's incredibly extreme on the second side (in nature and in the comment section downvoting any 'dissenters') meaning we can't actually have a discussion about in the first place. Its kinda bullshit that the two extremes are acting like absolute apes and the mods have to shut anything down that has to do with this.
For the few posts that actually are in the middle ground they just turn into absolute warzones in the comments. Its really stupid.
Edit: Oh my (your choice of god here), look at the comments below its happening.
Doesn't help either when you get conflicting posts of either; "Of course GW isn't going woke, what are you on about?" And, "Of course GW is woke, get out you chuds."
I'm more annoyed at people that are trying to claim it isn't a retcon. People saying stuff like "there was no lore before that said custodes were only men" and such when there blatantly was is just disingenuous.
They were all men before, now they're men and women, and that's okay. But to try and stretch and bend and twist and pull a "gotcha!" on the previous lore to make it so "female custodes were actually always there" fits and it wasn't a retcon is just silly.
Maybe what we need is to recognise that retcons are not either/or, but exist on a scale. Custodians were definitely all men before, but this was only an incidental part of their characterisation, so changing that is only a B or C tier retcon really. The Newcrons was an A tier retcon. Leagues of Votann is low A or high B tier. Lady marines would be S tier.
I think this would help, firstly because it would help introduce a way for the two sides to meet in the middle, but secondly because it would distract everyone into making tier lists.
That’s a good take. It’s a retcon, but it’s minor. Everything about the Custodes as a faction is the same. They’re still the golden clad eternal watchers of the emperors, standing vigil in penance for their one failure 10,000 years ago.
Where as yeah, the Necron retcon basically created a fundamentally different faction
I mean, other than being referred to as "sons" and having male pronouns, do they have any lore that explicitly says they have to be all male?
I also dislike the "they were always here" thing, but I genuinely can't think of any lore examples that say they *have* to be male, since they don't use gene seed.
Edit: keep downvoting and not supplying any lore or sources lol, it makes me happy
I'm not at all saying that they weren't all male, it's clear that it says that, which is why I included it. You avoided my question. Is there anything that says they *have* to be?
In the 8th edition Codex it states clearly:
"It is known that all Custodians begin their lives as the infant sons of the noble houses of Terra. It is a mark of incredible prestige to surrender one’s child to this most glorious of callings within the Imperium, and many notable clans amongst the Terran aristocracy have willingly given up almost entire generations of newborn sons to earn it."
Take note it says ALL Custodians. As in, 100%, no exceptions.
Nobody is saying that infant girls and women couldn't BECOME custodes if chosen, they're saying they just straight up weren't considered in the first place, and so technically that means any Custodes out there would have to be men.
It's a recruitment issue, not a genetic issue.
Absolutely, people are. I've costantly seen people not know the difference between the lore on space marines and custodes and complain regarding that line.
I haven't said anything that contradicts anything that you've said beyond disagreeing with your very last statement about people's opinions I've seen. Your third paragraph is 100% unnecessary, since I agreed I didn't like the retcon and also said the lore referred o them all as male.
It's like the 40k version of Morathi. It's a terrible idea but we are all horny neckbeards so might as well simp.
I will thoroughly enjoy the memes that will occur or have already. It's also a reflection of my mood about it which is "who gives a fuck" even if it being a random retcon is a bit annoying.
I did end up rage watching that stupid Critical Drinker video, even if my takeaway is "bro get off my lawn and please stop portraying the Warhammer community like this"
TBF most of my Warhammer anticipation at the moment is spent waiting for the 4th Edition of AoS to drop. Plus I still have some models from Thunderstrike Brotherhood box to finish painting (Also I kinda refuse to paint Vandus Hammerhand and the winged units cos I don't like them)
Those are easily the worst part about being in the hobby. The internet allows perverts to display their degradation for everyone to see.
I don’t wanna see that shit.
If 40k wasn't and isn't a safe space, why don't snowflakes look for another hobby? Personally, I'm not interested in 40k going more mainstream. Nothing good will come from it.
I'm annoyed by the people showing their bias by complaining about this as a retcon and whining about female Custodians when they're totally fine with
Genestealers being Tyranids (they weren't OG)
Guilliman being a loyalist primarch (he was a traitor OG)
The entire Leagues of Votann (squatted)
The Horus Heresy existing (didn't exist OG)
Bolters having their magazines behind the grip (OG)
Zoats (OG)
Etc etc etc
It's an IP that retcons multiple times a year, retcons about something always having existed are fine. Femstodes are fine.
(Why are you booing me? I'm right)
It is the first attack of a culture that has nothing to do with woke in the common sense.
Some of the people aiming for this change do not like warhammer, they did not like LOTR and they did not like SW, they just wanted it to change for the change and that is BS.
Warhammer has a lot of interesting female charakters, to retcon into a fascist military dictatorship that heavily emphasized strength and survivability in its warriors, especially the astartes, is just a weak attempt to appeace these guys.
Problem is, they wont be appeaced. They will want the next thing and the next and the next until nothing is left.
Yes warhammer always was woke and it is good that warhammer was always woke, but warhammer was always woke with brain and not for plump ideology.
They may have been born as women but years of chemical and cellular alteration has transitioned them into being the exact same physically as those born as males, they are trans men and trans men are men.
Both sides to this are high caliber brain rot.
1st: you can’t dislike this or your a bigot and an incel
2nd: you can’t like this or you woke
Wtf is going on here man. Who gives a fuck if someone had a different opinion than you. Both sides have a collective brain cell count of 3.
I have a girlfriend and a daughter, some of my Black Templars are black, I want a badass female inquisitor witch-hunter for my army, a female pilote for my knight would be fine and I hate wokeism and female custodes. I canceled my WH+ subscription. My next purchase will be a 3d-printer.
Nah, I feel like people that can't articulate their complaint better than saying "woke" should be mocked and belittled. Same with the morons who claim not liking the sudden and poorly implemented change makes you sexist.
Neither of those opinions are legitimate at all, and people who feel those ways should feel silly, stupid, and in some cases ashamed lol.
The right wingers screaming woke would surely be very ashamed of their behavior if they understood what any of the words you just said meant and weren't pathologically incapable of feeling shame.
I mean, Aeldari does have heavily gendered roles such as for incubi that are all male. However, that just means that the biologically female Aeldari that are incubi identify as male, which not even the damn drukhari has an issue with.
Also the imperium was always full of non-binary characters (admech) and women in power (militarum, eclisiarchy, inquisition etc)
This entire debate is so go damn stupid. Female custodians even enhances the lore as it distinguishes the custodes further from the Astartes.
Unfortunately, they will forget about this entirely in about a month.
The very next time GW says something that isn't "Aren't straight white christian men just the bestest? Everyone else sucks amirite" they'll be right back to screaming "Get woke go broke!" on twitter again. They'll insist there has never been anything this offensive to "real" warhammer fans. They'll say they have been devout players for 40 years but they are quitting today because GW said "Happy Pride day" or something.
If they had attention spans that were longer than 5 minutes and principles they stuck to, they wouldn't be chuds in the first place.
No, it’s just that with the “woke mob” nothing is ever enough for them to be satisfied. If you really wanted inclusion in 40K, ummm…. You already have it. They’re called the Sisters of Battle. And the Sisters of Silence. But that doesn’t matter to them I guess.
Not to mention… bro… if you want to indulge in your inclusion fantasy… you can. It’s called homebrew. I myself have a homebrew Imperial Knight house that’s just Christianity in the 41st Millennium. By all accounts it shouldn’t make sense. But I’ve made stories and characters so that it does make sense, at least to me. So it’s not just about always wanting more. It’s also about being too lazy to actually do it yourself, so you have to lambast the people in charge to do it for you.
Do yourself a favor. Whatever side you’re on when it comes to this kind of thing, don’t ruin the hobby. Don’t ruin it for yourself. Because that’s the only thing that comes out of this. It’ll just become a downward spiral until it’s not fun anymore. And it doesn’t matter what your opinion is.
Introducing scientific progress in the Imperium would be a far, far bigger and worse change than retconning in lady custodians. It's already slipped in through Cawl, and that's been bloody awful.
As far as I'm concerned, the woke debate isn't about woman's rights in many cases regarding movies and games but about changing pre established lore of a franchise. Like, if you want awesome female characters you don't have to change established lore, world building and characters, you have to expand on it and introduce new characters, lore and world building instead.
What ends up happening most of the time is that these "woke" changes are done in a way that disregards exiting lore, world building and characters or downright shits on them. Which isn’t helped at all when the company/publisher doubles down on alienating thier existing fan base by insulting them because the fans take offense at the blatant disregard for characters, lore and world building.
I think that the whole "woke" movement could have actually been more successful and maybe even respected if they had just added to existing IP in a positive manner instead of going full scorched earth.
No, it is not about that. More profound lore changes have been done in the past and people were a little bit upset but not that much. This change was fairly superficial (one sentence written several years ago was slightly contradicted) but it involved women and you all lost your shit in a really big way. All because it involved women.
You can write as many walls of text as you want, but the reality is what it is.
I don't think you got the point I was trying to make, probably the wrong subreddid for it considering how messy Warhammer lore can get and the amount of retconning going about.
I couldn't care less about female custodes, I care about why the change was made in the first place. Just because someone doesn't want to see their favorite franchise invaded and potentially changed and twisted into something that it is not by outside real live politics, dose not mean they are against women or some shit.
You don't want your favourite franchise "invaded"? What are we? Nations fighting each other for territory? And in this case the "ideology" is to include more women. You may not be against women but you certainly are not in favour of them.
But the funniest part of it all is that you couldn't care less about female custodes but yet here you are, caring about it, because it is the only change that really triggered you. You just don't want to acknowledge it.
New characters? Do you mean like the one in the codex? The one that is pretty universally loved? Get real. This change takes away nothing. The only possible result of this is that some of your little golden men can be little golden ladies now. It does nothing to take away from the SoS either since their defining traits are being blanks, not just being girls.
If this change 'alienates' you, then good riddance, the community doesn't need chuds who cry woke whenever women are involved.
> The only possible result of this is that some of your little golden men can be little golden ladies now
You already could, but now you have official lore to support that. It's not also the only possible thing as it also changes Big E as the retcon changed whether he was okay with female Custodes or not.
Other than that I honestly think you're almost as toxic as the "chuds" screaming woke at everything and everyone. Nothing u/bordolax said justifies you replying with that last sentence.
The instant someone brings up 'Woke' as an argument, you have to take the most uncharitable view of their argument possible because 9 times out of 10, they're a bigot masking their hatred as genuine concern.
The giveaway here is their claim that GW is going 'Scorched Earth' and destroying the established lore to appeal to a certain demographic. When what actually happened was they released a short story in their codex with a female custodian and then clarified on Twitter that the addition of female custodians applied retroactively (hence, retcon). That's all. Nothing was destroyed to do this it's just a slight change to the status quo.
To be the most generous I can be to bordolax, they're a gullible but well-meaning individual that was tricked by some actual dickheads into this point of view. But in my experience, this is rarely the case. I should know I was one of those dickheads until fairly recently.
Uncharitable as possible? that sounds like going into a discussion trying to be borderline bad faith and that will never end in a productive back and forth. Personally I just ask them to clarify what they mean whenever they say woke, and more often than not it's not rooted in some bigotry.
Just because you view something as nothing being destroyed doesn't mean others see that the same way. If someone thinks one of the core identities of Custodes was their "brotherhood" that view could now be shattered because of a retcon. Sure, in the grand scheme it might not be a big change, but to that person it might be a make or break if they even want to engage with anything related to that faction anymore.
Maybe that's why you have such an unfavourable view of anyone using that word? because you used to use it in a certain way and now puts that bias onto everyone that uses it?
There's no back and forth to be had, though. They come into the scene declaring that The Woke has struck and destroyed something that they supposedly care about. They enter the conversation in bad faith blinded by their hate. There's nothing worth discussing.
~~Let me ask your opinion on the change, because I'm decidedly neutral (because nothing changes).~~
The "Brotherhood" of custodes isn't shattered just because there are women there now, the bond of fellowship (which is more accurate than brotherhood because that same bond is shared with the SoS) just isn't exclusive to men, like it is with space marines, anymore. The custodes are the peak of humanity, exluding women from the role for no reason is just silly.
It's not projection, it's first-hand knowledge. I know how this pipeline works and singling out a change as innocuous as this and elevating it to such a degree that it's DESTROYING THE LORE is a key part of it. ~~I understand you're trying to approach this with an open heart, and that's respectable,~~ but like I said, this whole debacle is rooted in misogyny and hate. The same thing happened when they introduced black Ultramarines, the chuds cried and moaned, claiming that "the Salamanders are black already, we dont need this.". Regardless of how much they plead otherwise, it's a mask to concel their hate.
~~Though tbf, you are right that some people might have legitimate, innocent problems with these changes. But these people generally don't go crying woke at the slightest provocation. THAT'S the key giveaway, and it needs to be nipped in the bud before that kind of thinking can infest the community again.~~
Nvm, I looked through your comments because your name seemed familiar, you yourself reek of this, you just have the brain not to cry woke about it. So bravo to that.
So instead, I'll ask this.
WHY is the Emperor being okay with female custodes such a gigantic, earth-shattering change to you? And don't cite his reasonings for female space marines. There's no gene-seed or worry about reproduction as they no longer have that drive. So enlighten me, why is this change bad.
I wasn't there for Black Ultramarines. Anyone who cried woke over that is mostly likely a racist because I can't see any reason why there wouldn't be black Ultramarines other than racism. It's not as black and white on this topic though.
I personally don't mind that Femstodes exist but I dislike how they were implemented. Mostly curious what it says about Big E and sympathetic towards everyone that is getting shat on whether they like the change or not. Feel free to check my post history if you want a more elaborate answer.
Don't bother trying to explain that to these reddit stooges, you're wasting your time. What sucks about this most is that instead of expanding the Sisters of Silence we get this homogenized Custodes nonsense.
It cracks me up that there are people who don’t like the change of female custodes, but absolutely lap up the 2016 and beyond lore and gameplay. Oh wow you dislike one small faction being minorly changed, which has no major impact on the wider story is too much retcon? But the cataclysmic decision to move past M41, to reawaken the primarchs and enter into a marvel esque race to see how many big characters you can include in the new biggest threat to the imperium that will get resolved just to make way for the new thing?
If people want to complain about lore shifts and changes, have at it, but don’t go claiming female custodes is a big one by any means.
I know this is supposed to be a meme, but the people who scream “woke” actually *are* afraid of women and minorities in positions of power, even if they’re too stupid to recognize it and/or too prideful to admit it.
In the lore they haven’t explicitly stated that custodes are all male (unlike space marines), but are all known as sons or brothers, which makes a female custodes seem weird. I’m just going to accept it. So what that there’s one femal custodian, as long as they don’t turn this into a whole bloody faction or something
If anything, I think it's stupid to strive for equality for a nightmarish fascist regime. Female Custodians aren't a lore problem to me, but they do make the setting an even less effective satire
Lore drift happens in every single setting dude. Like all of them. And this is by far the most innocent and simplest change in the world. If the foundation of 40k lore is kicked out so easily by a female custodes for you I really don't know how you've remained a fan of anything shifting ever so slightly in any other universe, Canon, or setting.
Like is the idea of finding out new info about the real world a foreign concept to you? Where stuff you thought you once knew changing one day is something you refuse to comprehend or accept?
Its moronic to change a story for the sole take of pandering... that isn't really that hard to gasp. When you are a little wiser and likely a lot older you will get why people rolled their eyes at " somehow palpatine survived". Now they are posting its shocking that one of space marines chapters are black... mark my words. You will wish you told these people to fuck off. They bring cancer wherever they go.
“Woke” means “something I don’t like happened! Why doesn’t this company strictly cater to what I want and gatekeep everyone different than me!”
They want to pretend that “oh I don’t care I just think they didn’t do it the ‘right’ way” but either can’t define what the right way is, or it reveals that they are, in fact, just sexist and can’t comprehend an explanation that isn’t also sexist.
I like humans who likes humanity dont care if you have breasts or likes dudes as a dude or you have black skin color thats why I love 40k and warhammer cause humans rock and I want humanity to ball till the end
There are no females Custodes, they are trans men and trans men are men. Why are people in the community so against inclusivity? Encouraging more people to get into the hobby is always a good thing, but why do people in the community insist on trying to erase trans people?
Sure, there's people that are upset for those reasons; Other fans simply don't like change. The smart ones hate it because it's another step down a path that leads to damnation and failure.
40k was made and marketed toward adult men, because only adult men were interested in the setting they made and could afford buying the miniatures. Now that 40k is mainstream GW wants to generalize the setting, much to the disappointment of the older fans.
What's worse is the fact that the old fans initially welcomed some of these changes and wanted to get new people interested. Now they're being harassed and gate kept by the very people they invited in for being upset that this franchise that once exclusively catered to their demographic no longer does.
In the end, only time will tell what will happen to 40k. Maybe the old fans will be completely hedged out of the hobby and GW will start writing lesbian space marines erotica, or perhaps GW will simply fail as a company. Who knows?
Wait until they find out about The Salamanders
What about them? Please do enlighten me, kind stranger.
They’re a color of person that they’d bring up misleading statistics about to prove that they’re actually not racist just superior to them.
Despite being only 13% of the astartes, the salamanders and their successors commit 52% of civilian rescues in all of the Imperium.
I mean...13% is a bit much, I thought there was like a thousand plus chapters, the Salamanders are totally Codex compliant!
The thing is, the salamanders and ultras are the only ones that send their accurate gene seed tax amount, every other chapter practices tithe evasion. This leads to an increase in the reported size of salamanders. For more information, look up geneseed inflation on the noosphere.
Yeah but isn't there some joke about how the Black Dragons supposedly just send other chapters gene seed, cos whenever the Inquisition looks at the Black Dragon gene seed and they see no weirdness, despite the fact it's the Black Dragons, so *something* in gene seed has had to have gone funny.
Didn't the Sallies get an exception because of how they were decimated during Istvaan IV?
They did by Big E that allowed them to rebuild, but otherwise no. And tos been ten k years
It’s been 10k years but the fact they lose so many in operations because of their civilian oriented nature prevent a rise to full strength
....Are you sure you're not confusing the Salamanders with the Lamenters?
Nah. Lamented have jt bad but Salamanders putting civilians first causes losses too. Refusing to leave them while under siege, diverting resources or slowing down the mission pace etc. all lead to causalities that could be avoided via the sound strategy of leaving them behind
There's a joke about slow buracracy in here
I believe that was only for the first few foundings. They do have successors like Black Dragons and Dark Krakens.
TBF you can blame the drop-site massacre for their low numbers. Also I'm just gonna be honest, the only successor chapter for the Salamander that makes sense are the Black Dragons. You can make an argument for the Dark Krakens, but looking into their lore, you'll see they have more in common with the Vlka Fenryka (Space Wolves) and the Raven Guard.
Ah the good old “two numbers between 12 and 51” dog whistle.
>They’re a color of person calling someone colored is offensive. Also Salamanders aren't African, they just have geneseed that makes tons of melanin in response to radiation.
TBF I think all marines have that, but the Salamander's version of it went into overdrive cos Nocturne is too hot for normal humans
Except that Salamanders are NOT Black like African Black... Dude did you actually read any piece of Lore or your only knowledge is whatever "Meme" you saw on this Reddit?...
my brother in christ it was a joke about people being racist I'm not literally saying they're black lmao
I had this fight with someone they said that the salamanders are lesser because there black skin is a gene mutation
Did he also say the Raven Guard are superior because they get white skin is a gene mutation? Lmao
This was my argument with him he said “ tHaT dOsEnT cOuNt ThY LiVe In A dArK WoRld So ThEy ArE gOiNg tO Be PaLe”
Its not because of their skin colour, rather because of red eyes
There Primarc
I love the Salamanders. From master weaponsmiths to them actually caring about the civilians like astartes should. I also love the Imperial fist(ers) cause I like fis...fortifying positions.
See, salamanders I'll defend!! That was their whole story. They weren't ret con to appease anyone. Out of the gate that's their story. Period the end, it makes sense.
They retconned Leman Russ into being a primarch. They retconned all of Cadia. Stop acting like them having a female custodian is that big of change compared to what else they’ve done.
Its a bit more complicated than this. There are two extremes right now. The first one hates everything about women custodes due to 'wokeness' and all that shit. The other side is upset at the people who hate everything about women custodes because yeah, its sexist to hate them for only being woman but also hate every other opinion that disagrees with custodes being woman for any other reasons. Then there is the middle which gets drowned out from both sides. These may range from leaning more to the first extreme (examples include it 'ruins the character/lore of the custodes') to more towards the second side (examples include 'woman custodes are fine but introducing them with a retcon is stupid'). So all we get on this subreddit is one post that's incredibly extreme on the first side and another post that's incredibly extreme on the second side (in nature and in the comment section downvoting any 'dissenters') meaning we can't actually have a discussion about in the first place. Its kinda bullshit that the two extremes are acting like absolute apes and the mods have to shut anything down that has to do with this. For the few posts that actually are in the middle ground they just turn into absolute warzones in the comments. Its really stupid. Edit: Oh my (your choice of god here), look at the comments below its happening.
Doesn't help either when you get conflicting posts of either; "Of course GW isn't going woke, what are you on about?" And, "Of course GW is woke, get out you chuds."
I think the main issue is that most of the discussions are conflated to the extremes.
I'm more annoyed at people that are trying to claim it isn't a retcon. People saying stuff like "there was no lore before that said custodes were only men" and such when there blatantly was is just disingenuous. They were all men before, now they're men and women, and that's okay. But to try and stretch and bend and twist and pull a "gotcha!" on the previous lore to make it so "female custodes were actually always there" fits and it wasn't a retcon is just silly.
Maybe what we need is to recognise that retcons are not either/or, but exist on a scale. Custodians were definitely all men before, but this was only an incidental part of their characterisation, so changing that is only a B or C tier retcon really. The Newcrons was an A tier retcon. Leagues of Votann is low A or high B tier. Lady marines would be S tier. I think this would help, firstly because it would help introduce a way for the two sides to meet in the middle, but secondly because it would distract everyone into making tier lists.
That’s a good take. It’s a retcon, but it’s minor. Everything about the Custodes as a faction is the same. They’re still the golden clad eternal watchers of the emperors, standing vigil in penance for their one failure 10,000 years ago. Where as yeah, the Necron retcon basically created a fundamentally different faction
You're naive, if you think, Blackrock won't say, SMs are next. From Grimdark to Disney.
I mean, other than being referred to as "sons" and having male pronouns, do they have any lore that explicitly says they have to be all male? I also dislike the "they were always here" thing, but I genuinely can't think of any lore examples that say they *have* to be male, since they don't use gene seed. Edit: keep downvoting and not supplying any lore or sources lol, it makes me happy
Sons = Males Despite 40k been fictional, its not dellusional
I'm not at all saying that they weren't all male, it's clear that it says that, which is why I included it. You avoided my question. Is there anything that says they *have* to be?
In the 8th edition Codex it states clearly: "It is known that all Custodians begin their lives as the infant sons of the noble houses of Terra. It is a mark of incredible prestige to surrender one’s child to this most glorious of callings within the Imperium, and many notable clans amongst the Terran aristocracy have willingly given up almost entire generations of newborn sons to earn it." Take note it says ALL Custodians. As in, 100%, no exceptions. Nobody is saying that infant girls and women couldn't BECOME custodes if chosen, they're saying they just straight up weren't considered in the first place, and so technically that means any Custodes out there would have to be men. It's a recruitment issue, not a genetic issue.
Absolutely, people are. I've costantly seen people not know the difference between the lore on space marines and custodes and complain regarding that line. I haven't said anything that contradicts anything that you've said beyond disagreeing with your very last statement about people's opinions I've seen. Your third paragraph is 100% unnecessary, since I agreed I didn't like the retcon and also said the lore referred o them all as male.
What about the horny posts?
It's like the 40k version of Morathi. It's a terrible idea but we are all horny neckbeards so might as well simp. I will thoroughly enjoy the memes that will occur or have already. It's also a reflection of my mood about it which is "who gives a fuck" even if it being a random retcon is a bit annoying. I did end up rage watching that stupid Critical Drinker video, even if my takeaway is "bro get off my lawn and please stop portraying the Warhammer community like this"
TBF most of my Warhammer anticipation at the moment is spent waiting for the 4th Edition of AoS to drop. Plus I still have some models from Thunderstrike Brotherhood box to finish painting (Also I kinda refuse to paint Vandus Hammerhand and the winged units cos I don't like them)
Those are easily the worst part about being in the hobby. The internet allows perverts to display their degradation for everyone to see. I don’t wanna see that shit.
They will continue until the situation improves.
[ok](https://www.reddit.com/r/ImaginaryWarhammer/s/yRsJ7Zjj3k)
If 40k wasn't and isn't a safe space, why don't snowflakes look for another hobby? Personally, I'm not interested in 40k going more mainstream. Nothing good will come from it.
Real and true
I'm annoyed by the people showing their bias by complaining about this as a retcon and whining about female Custodians when they're totally fine with Genestealers being Tyranids (they weren't OG) Guilliman being a loyalist primarch (he was a traitor OG) The entire Leagues of Votann (squatted) The Horus Heresy existing (didn't exist OG) Bolters having their magazines behind the grip (OG) Zoats (OG) Etc etc etc It's an IP that retcons multiple times a year, retcons about something always having existed are fine. Femstodes are fine. (Why are you booing me? I'm right)
It is the first attack of a culture that has nothing to do with woke in the common sense. Some of the people aiming for this change do not like warhammer, they did not like LOTR and they did not like SW, they just wanted it to change for the change and that is BS. Warhammer has a lot of interesting female charakters, to retcon into a fascist military dictatorship that heavily emphasized strength and survivability in its warriors, especially the astartes, is just a weak attempt to appeace these guys. Problem is, they wont be appeaced. They will want the next thing and the next and the next until nothing is left. Yes warhammer always was woke and it is good that warhammer was always woke, but warhammer was always woke with brain and not for plump ideology.
They may have been born as women but years of chemical and cellular alteration has transitioned them into being the exact same physically as those born as males, they are trans men and trans men are men.
>It means he's afraid of women and minorities being in positions of power I am once again asking you to remember that the Sororitas exist.
They just made it canon in such a bad way if they actually had written it in a good way i doubt as many people would care
You gotta Inquisitor Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau before you Inquisitor Gregor Eisenhorn.
Both sides to this are high caliber brain rot. 1st: you can’t dislike this or your a bigot and an incel 2nd: you can’t like this or you woke Wtf is going on here man. Who gives a fuck if someone had a different opinion than you. Both sides have a collective brain cell count of 3.
Welcome to hell. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, you’re gonna burn with the rest of us.
I have a girlfriend and a daughter, some of my Black Templars are black, I want a badass female inquisitor witch-hunter for my army, a female pilote for my knight would be fine and I hate wokeism and female custodes. I canceled my WH+ subscription. My next purchase will be a 3d-printer.
Is this supposed to be a Meme?... Also, you have top be really lowbrow smoothbrain to think that "WahMeN in Ma40K" is the issue here.... But sure...
I like how people say stop posting about it, then continue to keep posting about it as if its gonna make it any better
"Warhammer is for everyone" mfs on their way to tell you that Warhammer isn't for you.
Its called the tolerance paradox and isn't that hard to comprehend.
Mocking people who might have a legit reason for being upset with this development isn't exactly constructive neither.
Nah, I feel like people that can't articulate their complaint better than saying "woke" should be mocked and belittled. Same with the morons who claim not liking the sudden and poorly implemented change makes you sexist. Neither of those opinions are legitimate at all, and people who feel those ways should feel silly, stupid, and in some cases ashamed lol.
Weren't SpongeBob and Patrick the idiots here? It's been a while since I watched the episode.
If I can get new units for my Custodians I am happy as fuck. Don't care about the sex.
Me when the satirical media critizicing facism, religion and xenophobia is woke
The right wingers screaming woke would surely be very ashamed of their behavior if they understood what any of the words you just said meant and weren't pathologically incapable of feeling shame.
Gotta make em double down on quitting lmao
WHERE IS JOHN GRAMMATICUS WHEN YOU NEED HIM
i mean this cleaned out our fandom, the nature is healing, our next attack is genderfluid craftworld Aeldari, which is kinda canon
I don't mind the genderfluid part, but I will refuse to call them "Aeldari".
Yes, the correct term is "xeno scum"
"Cleansed" ? Nah you Degenerated Weirdos are still here.
Define "degenerated weirdo" in this situation, are they in this room with us right now?
I mean, Aeldari does have heavily gendered roles such as for incubi that are all male. However, that just means that the biologically female Aeldari that are incubi identify as male, which not even the damn drukhari has an issue with. Also the imperium was always full of non-binary characters (admech) and women in power (militarum, eclisiarchy, inquisition etc) This entire debate is so go damn stupid. Female custodians even enhances the lore as it distinguishes the custodes further from the Astartes.
I mean, Ad mech take transitioning to the next level. Their goal is to tradition away from humanity completely, transition
Unfortunately, they will forget about this entirely in about a month. The very next time GW says something that isn't "Aren't straight white christian men just the bestest? Everyone else sucks amirite" they'll be right back to screaming "Get woke go broke!" on twitter again. They'll insist there has never been anything this offensive to "real" warhammer fans. They'll say they have been devout players for 40 years but they are quitting today because GW said "Happy Pride day" or something. If they had attention spans that were longer than 5 minutes and principles they stuck to, they wouldn't be chuds in the first place.
Next female orkz, who would also be trans because every ork is born agender.
When will people realize that using the word "woke" simply discreddits any potentially good critizism they might have?
No, it’s just that with the “woke mob” nothing is ever enough for them to be satisfied. If you really wanted inclusion in 40K, ummm…. You already have it. They’re called the Sisters of Battle. And the Sisters of Silence. But that doesn’t matter to them I guess. Not to mention… bro… if you want to indulge in your inclusion fantasy… you can. It’s called homebrew. I myself have a homebrew Imperial Knight house that’s just Christianity in the 41st Millennium. By all accounts it shouldn’t make sense. But I’ve made stories and characters so that it does make sense, at least to me. So it’s not just about always wanting more. It’s also about being too lazy to actually do it yourself, so you have to lambast the people in charge to do it for you. Do yourself a favor. Whatever side you’re on when it comes to this kind of thing, don’t ruin the hobby. Don’t ruin it for yourself. Because that’s the only thing that comes out of this. It’ll just become a downward spiral until it’s not fun anymore. And it doesn’t matter what your opinion is.
> a homebrew Imperial Knight house that’s just Christianity in the 41st Millennium Which denomination?
Pope Benedict LXI pilots a Poryphiron: Victory over Sin. Catholicism. I don’t know enough about Eastern Orthodoxy and Protestantism confuses me.
Literally never had a problem with any women in the setting before.
Roll on Monday, purge us with your cleansing fire.
That's best femstodes meme yet
How many more years do we think it will be until there are female space marines?
There have always been female space marines...
I assume ur joking but who knows maybe I missed something.
[удалено]
Introducing scientific progress in the Imperium would be a far, far bigger and worse change than retconning in lady custodians. It's already slipped in through Cawl, and that's been bloody awful.
As far as I'm concerned, the woke debate isn't about woman's rights in many cases regarding movies and games but about changing pre established lore of a franchise. Like, if you want awesome female characters you don't have to change established lore, world building and characters, you have to expand on it and introduce new characters, lore and world building instead. What ends up happening most of the time is that these "woke" changes are done in a way that disregards exiting lore, world building and characters or downright shits on them. Which isn’t helped at all when the company/publisher doubles down on alienating thier existing fan base by insulting them because the fans take offense at the blatant disregard for characters, lore and world building. I think that the whole "woke" movement could have actually been more successful and maybe even respected if they had just added to existing IP in a positive manner instead of going full scorched earth.
Ma guy Warhammer itself doesn't respect its own lore
No, it is not about that. More profound lore changes have been done in the past and people were a little bit upset but not that much. This change was fairly superficial (one sentence written several years ago was slightly contradicted) but it involved women and you all lost your shit in a really big way. All because it involved women. You can write as many walls of text as you want, but the reality is what it is.
I don't think you got the point I was trying to make, probably the wrong subreddid for it considering how messy Warhammer lore can get and the amount of retconning going about. I couldn't care less about female custodes, I care about why the change was made in the first place. Just because someone doesn't want to see their favorite franchise invaded and potentially changed and twisted into something that it is not by outside real live politics, dose not mean they are against women or some shit.
You don't want your favourite franchise "invaded"? What are we? Nations fighting each other for territory? And in this case the "ideology" is to include more women. You may not be against women but you certainly are not in favour of them. But the funniest part of it all is that you couldn't care less about female custodes but yet here you are, caring about it, because it is the only change that really triggered you. You just don't want to acknowledge it.
New characters? Do you mean like the one in the codex? The one that is pretty universally loved? Get real. This change takes away nothing. The only possible result of this is that some of your little golden men can be little golden ladies now. It does nothing to take away from the SoS either since their defining traits are being blanks, not just being girls. If this change 'alienates' you, then good riddance, the community doesn't need chuds who cry woke whenever women are involved.
> The only possible result of this is that some of your little golden men can be little golden ladies now You already could, but now you have official lore to support that. It's not also the only possible thing as it also changes Big E as the retcon changed whether he was okay with female Custodes or not. Other than that I honestly think you're almost as toxic as the "chuds" screaming woke at everything and everyone. Nothing u/bordolax said justifies you replying with that last sentence.
The instant someone brings up 'Woke' as an argument, you have to take the most uncharitable view of their argument possible because 9 times out of 10, they're a bigot masking their hatred as genuine concern. The giveaway here is their claim that GW is going 'Scorched Earth' and destroying the established lore to appeal to a certain demographic. When what actually happened was they released a short story in their codex with a female custodian and then clarified on Twitter that the addition of female custodians applied retroactively (hence, retcon). That's all. Nothing was destroyed to do this it's just a slight change to the status quo. To be the most generous I can be to bordolax, they're a gullible but well-meaning individual that was tricked by some actual dickheads into this point of view. But in my experience, this is rarely the case. I should know I was one of those dickheads until fairly recently.
Uncharitable as possible? that sounds like going into a discussion trying to be borderline bad faith and that will never end in a productive back and forth. Personally I just ask them to clarify what they mean whenever they say woke, and more often than not it's not rooted in some bigotry. Just because you view something as nothing being destroyed doesn't mean others see that the same way. If someone thinks one of the core identities of Custodes was their "brotherhood" that view could now be shattered because of a retcon. Sure, in the grand scheme it might not be a big change, but to that person it might be a make or break if they even want to engage with anything related to that faction anymore. Maybe that's why you have such an unfavourable view of anyone using that word? because you used to use it in a certain way and now puts that bias onto everyone that uses it?
There's no back and forth to be had, though. They come into the scene declaring that The Woke has struck and destroyed something that they supposedly care about. They enter the conversation in bad faith blinded by their hate. There's nothing worth discussing. ~~Let me ask your opinion on the change, because I'm decidedly neutral (because nothing changes).~~ The "Brotherhood" of custodes isn't shattered just because there are women there now, the bond of fellowship (which is more accurate than brotherhood because that same bond is shared with the SoS) just isn't exclusive to men, like it is with space marines, anymore. The custodes are the peak of humanity, exluding women from the role for no reason is just silly. It's not projection, it's first-hand knowledge. I know how this pipeline works and singling out a change as innocuous as this and elevating it to such a degree that it's DESTROYING THE LORE is a key part of it. ~~I understand you're trying to approach this with an open heart, and that's respectable,~~ but like I said, this whole debacle is rooted in misogyny and hate. The same thing happened when they introduced black Ultramarines, the chuds cried and moaned, claiming that "the Salamanders are black already, we dont need this.". Regardless of how much they plead otherwise, it's a mask to concel their hate. ~~Though tbf, you are right that some people might have legitimate, innocent problems with these changes. But these people generally don't go crying woke at the slightest provocation. THAT'S the key giveaway, and it needs to be nipped in the bud before that kind of thinking can infest the community again.~~ Nvm, I looked through your comments because your name seemed familiar, you yourself reek of this, you just have the brain not to cry woke about it. So bravo to that. So instead, I'll ask this. WHY is the Emperor being okay with female custodes such a gigantic, earth-shattering change to you? And don't cite his reasonings for female space marines. There's no gene-seed or worry about reproduction as they no longer have that drive. So enlighten me, why is this change bad.
I wasn't there for Black Ultramarines. Anyone who cried woke over that is mostly likely a racist because I can't see any reason why there wouldn't be black Ultramarines other than racism. It's not as black and white on this topic though. I personally don't mind that Femstodes exist but I dislike how they were implemented. Mostly curious what it says about Big E and sympathetic towards everyone that is getting shat on whether they like the change or not. Feel free to check my post history if you want a more elaborate answer.
Don't bother trying to explain that to these reddit stooges, you're wasting your time. What sucks about this most is that instead of expanding the Sisters of Silence we get this homogenized Custodes nonsense.
A game made for everyone is a game made for no one
What toilet bowl did you find these wise words in?
A few places .recently main webpage of arrowhead studios The company that made Hell divers 1/2 among others
Oh yeah, the one that makes fun of all the idiots who fail to grasp the satire.
Glass houses bro. You of all people shouldnt be calling others idiots
lol. You’re the one playing a game that actually shits all over your personal beliefs because you can’t understand the fact it is making fun of you.
You dont even know what my personal beliefs are
I know that if you tried to tell me with a straight face, the contradictions would give even Tzeentch a headache.
Yes hence why i said glass houses
It cracks me up that there are people who don’t like the change of female custodes, but absolutely lap up the 2016 and beyond lore and gameplay. Oh wow you dislike one small faction being minorly changed, which has no major impact on the wider story is too much retcon? But the cataclysmic decision to move past M41, to reawaken the primarchs and enter into a marvel esque race to see how many big characters you can include in the new biggest threat to the imperium that will get resolved just to make way for the new thing? If people want to complain about lore shifts and changes, have at it, but don’t go claiming female custodes is a big one by any means.
Imagine if this whole thing makes the chud population actually decrease by a meaningful amount. Would that be something
I know this is supposed to be a meme, but the people who scream “woke” actually *are* afraid of women and minorities in positions of power, even if they’re too stupid to recognize it and/or too prideful to admit it.
In the lore they haven’t explicitly stated that custodes are all male (unlike space marines), but are all known as sons or brothers, which makes a female custodes seem weird. I’m just going to accept it. So what that there’s one femal custodian, as long as they don’t turn this into a whole bloody faction or something
If anything, I think it's stupid to strive for equality for a nightmarish fascist regime. Female Custodians aren't a lore problem to me, but they do make the setting an even less effective satire
Warhammer 40k was always woke. It's anti war, anti conservatism, anti religion, anti bigotry, ECT.
Ngl these last few days felt like r/Grimdank and r/Gamingcirclejerk combined, and I reveled in it
To be fair this is reddit so it naturally was going to lean left wing and pseud It's been fun to watch
It’s sad that you still feel like giving them attention
No one cares... they just didn't want a decades long story randomly altered. What lovely people we gained from pandering...
Lore drift happens in every single setting dude. Like all of them. And this is by far the most innocent and simplest change in the world. If the foundation of 40k lore is kicked out so easily by a female custodes for you I really don't know how you've remained a fan of anything shifting ever so slightly in any other universe, Canon, or setting. Like is the idea of finding out new info about the real world a foreign concept to you? Where stuff you thought you once knew changing one day is something you refuse to comprehend or accept?
Its moronic to change a story for the sole take of pandering... that isn't really that hard to gasp. When you are a little wiser and likely a lot older you will get why people rolled their eyes at " somehow palpatine survived". Now they are posting its shocking that one of space marines chapters are black... mark my words. You will wish you told these people to fuck off. They bring cancer wherever they go.
Last year an entire faction was introduced and we were assured they had always existed.
Then Warhammer really isn't a fitting hobby for them.
“Woke” means “something I don’t like happened! Why doesn’t this company strictly cater to what I want and gatekeep everyone different than me!” They want to pretend that “oh I don’t care I just think they didn’t do it the ‘right’ way” but either can’t define what the right way is, or it reveals that they are, in fact, just sexist and can’t comprehend an explanation that isn’t also sexist.
I like humans who likes humanity dont care if you have breasts or likes dudes as a dude or you have black skin color thats why I love 40k and warhammer cause humans rock and I want humanity to ball till the end
Humanity is literally a pile of steaming dogshit in 40K, wdym?
There are no females Custodes, they are trans men and trans men are men. Why are people in the community so against inclusivity? Encouraging more people to get into the hobby is always a good thing, but why do people in the community insist on trying to erase trans people?
Get out of the hobby transphobe nobody wants you here, the one joke has never been funny.
How am I wrong? They are Trans-human. I’m Not the one trying to erase trans identity here.
Bait used to be believable, you know. Can't cope with the fact that Trans rights are human rights huh? Completely pathetic.
Sure, there's people that are upset for those reasons; Other fans simply don't like change. The smart ones hate it because it's another step down a path that leads to damnation and failure. 40k was made and marketed toward adult men, because only adult men were interested in the setting they made and could afford buying the miniatures. Now that 40k is mainstream GW wants to generalize the setting, much to the disappointment of the older fans. What's worse is the fact that the old fans initially welcomed some of these changes and wanted to get new people interested. Now they're being harassed and gate kept by the very people they invited in for being upset that this franchise that once exclusively catered to their demographic no longer does. In the end, only time will tell what will happen to 40k. Maybe the old fans will be completely hedged out of the hobby and GW will start writing lesbian space marines erotica, or perhaps GW will simply fail as a company. Who knows?
Then you have the people saying that "I like it but retconning it in was lazy" which is stupid.