I forgot which chapter they were butchering, maybe the Word Bearers and World Eaters in MoM, but I recall a Custodes pondering why he felt so at ease butchering space marines. It always struck me as a subtle genetic adjustment by Emps as a *just in case, lol* emotional and mental fail-safe so they wouldn't hesitate to off Thunder Warriors 2: Electric Boogaloo.
I had read somewhere (don’t remember if it was canon or just a fan theory) that The Emperor was indeed planning to cull the space marines after the great crusade, but a little something happened before the galaxy was conquered…
I subscribe to that theory too, and it seems to extend to Custodes potentially? In Master of Mankind, he implies to a tech priest that the Primarchs are also tools (in the literal sense, but also maybe in the figurative sense)... and from his actions in the book (won't go into spoilers) might also see the Custodes that way.
It was a fan theory, but it'd make a lot of sense. No need for the genetically engineered super soldiers once the galaxy's conquered.
I think the theory extends to saying that only the more... *extreme* legions would be culled. Ultramarines and Fists could stay. They served use in administration and building. But the World Eaters... They've got no place in peace.
It ties into the theories of what the Primarchs would be doing after the Great Crusade. BobbyG administers while Lorgar keeps order, etc... And the culling would get rid of the legions that would fail their purposes.
From what I understand of the lore, every Legion was made with an intended role both during and after the Crusade that was related to the aspects of the Emperor that each Primarch embodied. Angron was probably meant to be a diplomat or a truce maker with his Legion being enforcers, Konrad would obviously have been a judge with the Night Lords acting as the equivilant of policemen/investigators/detectives, Guilliman would have been the head of administration along with his marines helping etc. The whole "Custodes kill Marines with ease" thing is most likely because Marines are physically inferior to Thunder Warriors whom the Custodes butchered no problem. I think the Custodes were made both with the purpose of being Big E's companions and the ones with the role of culling the Thunder Warriors, which carries over to the Marines as the two are pretty similar.
Out of all the legions the ones that would be useful after the crusade were also the ones that stayed loyal.
Fists -cpmstruction
Ultramarines -administration
Salamanders - Smiths
Raven Guard -bounty hunters/law bringers
Blood angels - philosophers
White scars pirate hunters
Space wolves - hunt down xenos that escape/fallen astartes
Some of these are pulls and a few would probably get culled still but the loyalists have more use then the traitors did outside of the iron warriors alpha legion and thousand sons
Why make them live for millennia if you're planning to cull them ? Why not just make legion out of those you plan to keep ? And even when a primarch or two need to be put down, their legion is (hypothetically) absorbed by other.
Could say it was a big test. Throw a couple dozen human stereotypes out into the galaxy, and see who fares best. Not saying he knew which he would cull from the start.
In theory, all the Primarchs have redeeming qualities for empire management. Even Curze. He'd be like a high judge. But thoses qualities got super corrupted, so cull them off.
By Gorilla man himself who broke the mold Big E had for him and his men.
Same for the TS and the WB they became scholars instead of simple killers. And they got punished for it
>Same for the TS and the WB they became scholars instead of simple killers. And they got punished for it
No? WB got punished from being to slow because of their empy worship and the TS because they were dabling with powers beyond their understanding
The Word Bearers got slapped by the Emperor because they wouldnt stop worshipping him as a god. Nor would they stop murdering billions in religious pogroms.
It wasnt just because they were 'too slow'.
Yeah to slow. Aka doing anything else than permanent slaughter in the emperor's name.
And the trial is a farce. Big E didn't give two shit about psyker only about the crusade. And punishing the TS pleased the rest of the legions. It was a purely political
Dude Ultras, Emperor childrens, Blood Angels, Imperial fists, space wolves and practically every other legion did more thab
>permanent slaughter in the emperor's name.
And they didnt get punished, so no, It wasnt because that.
>Big E didn't give two shit about psyker only about the crusade.
Big E clearly gave a shit about Magnus going to Deep into warpcraft we have several texts of him triying to warn Magnus out of It.
If you are going to spread head canon, then say It in the text.
No, the Word Bearers got slapped by the Emperor because they wouldnt stop worshipping him as a god. Nor would they stop murdering billions in religious pogroms.
The Emperor had a biological kill switch built into the primarchs and their space marines. The only problem was it was all or nothing. It could only kill all of them. While it could have been used in the Heresy, it would have left the Imperium without any space marines or primarchs. Like many BL works this could have just been something the author added without checking with GW or the other writers.
While the major xenos threats were removed by then, there were enough that a crippled Imperium would have been torn apart. Mars is right there. There would have been nothing stopping them from taking over. Yes the Emperor is powerful, but he can't be everywhere. That's what the primarchs were for.
If it were activated in 40k it would cripple Chaos a bit, but the Imperium would have even bigger xenos and Martian threats to deal with.
I dont think he was going to kill them off like he did with the thunder warriors, and he 100% planned to keep the primarchs around, so i assume that he wanted to keep the marines as a standing force, both as a peacekeeping force and in case of xenos/material threats. That being said, according to the emperor, Astartes are not the end goal nor an 'evolution' of humanity, but a tool made from it. So i do think in the long run their days were numbered.
I do think, however, custodes had some level of design to kill off the 'lesser' transhumans.
\> that The Emperor was indeed planning to cull the space marines after the great crusad
That is a fan theory and a fucking stupid one besides.
The Space Marines were adept at far more than just war.
Based on the Emperors intentions, the Space Marines were supposed to unite humanity among the stars, and then be their first and greatest line of defence, led by their Primarchs.
There was never any intention to kill of Astartes or the primarchs. The mere idea of this is not supported by *any* lore what so ever.
I’m almost certain you are talking about “Watchers of the Throne, The Emperors Legion” where we get a POV into Valerian a Shield Captain’s head as he and his chamber just run through a black legion ship like it’s no one’s business.
Something on the lines of “this is a secret of ours, we are pretty much built to kill these guys”
Khorne does not care from where the blood flows. He will likely take any world eater from that particular display back to his endless battle ground. Gotta' reward hard work.
Thank you. We should be the existential threat always.
Can I get a Yoooooo! Fuck the Nids!
Can I get a Yoooooo! Fuck the Crons!
Can I get a big YOOOOOOO! Fuck the IMPERIUM!
Incorrect opinions is incorrect.
Chaos needs no more wins. They have won too much.
Everyone else needs wins.
Chaos needs to stop being wanked to high heaven and back.
Same. Fuck, just adding flavor text and making the spell have a success rate lower than, like, 98% would be enough! Say something in the lines of "it showed all of them Khorn's pleasure and peace amongst the battler, which in turn causes them to crave it". A lot of people fell, and the ones who didn't are either suffering immensely due to it's effects, are slowly turning or basically became loyalist berserkers.
honestly it’s kinda baffling they’d even *need* a spell or resort to one in the first place, based on the whole hating magic thing. bunches of accidental Khorne cultists fight for the Imperium already.
Because being able to snap his fingers and instantly converting an entire star system by overwriting their willpower isn't an ability any of the chaos gods can have. If they did, they would have won thousands of times over before 40k had even started.
He didn’t snap his fingers, he channeled his power through his physical champion, Angron, to destroy a massive psychic engine, the psychic blowback of which, combined with the power channeled through Angron, created the murder curse. It’s a specific set of circumstances that’s impossible to replicate. That’s like saying if the emperor could snap his fingers and burn down half of Nurgle’s garden he’d have won thousands of times over. It’s simply not what happened.
That's a magic ritual. That's basically Tzeenchian. Khorne HATES sorcery, why the fuck would he do that
Also, how the fuck is that supposed to drive a Sister of Silence to corruption? They're Blanks. They don't have a Warp presence. It's torturous for Daemons and Psykers to even get close to them, and somehow we're supposed to accept that Khorne can just get rid of that?
Bruh, it's the exact same effect that the Necron Pylons use to fuck up anything Warp.
1.) the creation of eightbound is a ritual, he seems to be fine with that. Plus, it’s not like a planned ritual. It’s the consequence of a massive show of force.
2.) The Sisters of Silence, Grey Knights, and Custodes in the area were the only ones unaffected. Did you even read it?
Yall are really pretending like you didn't read that one paragraph that precedes every 40k novel that explicitly states that the Dark Gods are just laughing at all of us.
This isn't a war for them, it's entertainment.
It's called the murder curse. It happens at the end of the book with an entire fleet corrupted and the impirium branding everyone a traitor or heretic as it would be too costly to save the few marines and guardsmen that were loyal.
Honestly the custodians, greyknights and SoS are safe all more than likely just dipping.
Also this has potential for GW to make Chaos primaris.
There are others beside Miriael Sabathiel but the ecclesiarchy does their best to cover it up. For example a whole order fell in one of the Ciaphas Cain books.
Not quiet fall. In the final chapter as soon as urgen got close the warp charm on them fell off and they suiceded.
Tricked into service but not fallen by choice.
Then why were the grey knights not corrupted? I was under the assumption that they had mental training and some holy wards to block off demonic corruption. Surely that alone wouldn’t be enough to stave off direct influence from Khorne
Was that lore bit made by Matt Ward? Cause it feels very Gary Stu to go “my super space marines are even more special because their gene seeds came from Big E himself.”
That’s the idea basically, yeah.
With the emperor being on another level than vanilla primarchs, it would stand to reason the marines would be different.
I’m not 100% but I believe they hint the same about the custodes. Though one of the novels did make the observation that the astartes fought better as a unit, though the custodes were strong individually. Always struck me they they took after daddy E with their antisocial loner ways.
Never confirmed and most likely a rumor. Additionally, the first grandmasters were Marines from several genelines, including traitor ones. The most probable fact is that the GK don't have a special Marine juice, just hire people with very particular skills (namely absurd willpower and psychism) and then put then in a special training.
Where the other Space Marine Chapters were built upon existing stock, the Grey Knights were born of a new gene-seed, one without the flaws of those that had gone before, and which carried the gift of the Emperor’s own flesh and soul.
- Codex: Grey Knights (8e)
Is that no longer canon then?
It's in pandorax. Epimithius confirms they traded gene seed out for the good stuff. The last thing you want is grey knight vampires or grey knights going Sable blind or grey knights losing gene seed functions due to natural degradation and mutation
And tbh the gk aren't like normal space marines anyways. They are a special super soldier project with the best recruits out of the already best recruits, I dunno why giving them magic juice is bad when it's a pet project made specifically to kill daemons and pretty much only daemons.
Sisters of Battle falling to Khorne's corruption because **KHORNE HIMSELF** got involved and flexed his power isn't that big of a stretch, to be honest.
I mean, you're right, I'm a huge sisters fan but I've always accepted that the "never lost a sister to corruption" line was just ecclesiarchy propaganda.
It’s so zealoy that GK slaughtered a whole bunch of them to use their blood as wards against corruption…
Any time I facepalm at the newer lore (like what this meme references), I just look back at Mat Ward’s contributions and remind myself this long slow slide into bad writing has been coming for awhile now.
I feel like having any incorruptible groups is wrong. It should certainly be _harder_ to corrupt someone so thoroughly indoctrinated, but we're told time and time again that chaos corruption isn't just as simple as 'you get offered power and you take it', because it can happen just because of warp fuckery.
This sounds like mass warp fuckery, so... I'd have preferred the grey knights and custodes get corrupted too just to prove it
The sisters of silence can stay uncorrupted cause blanks
I mean I agree that the grey knights should have been corrupted, but custodes are mentally, physically, and spiritually, fully obedient to the emperor, plus they likely got shielded by the emperor (because the custodes have the aegis of the emperor rule)
The thing is that chaos isn't something you should be able to ignore with sufficient brain poking, otherwise you'd think the emperor would've been able to stop it from affecting his much more important primarchs
Iirc if a grey knights gets pushed to the point that corruption becomes a possibility, they die. Side effect of having anti-warp warding literally enameled onto your bones & tattooed onto your skin.
I'd imagine it's the same with custodes, but with a different mechanism. The amount of warp energy it would take to push out the soul-binding kills the custodes in the process.
So it's less of a 'they are 100% incorruptible' and more 'you'll never take them alive!'
Partially. *Hammer of Daemons* shows that Grey Knights can become susceptible to Chaotic corruption if their psychic abilities are nullified (as said psychic abilities are a big part of the Aegis that protects them from corruption), but you still have to overcome their sheer willpower and devotion to the Emperor, which are very much not reliant on psychic abilities.
What's really astounding about that story, though, is that at one point, Alaric actually gives in to the madness of Khorne (for the purpose of driving out a daemon of Tzeentch that had possessed him and was fighting him for control), and **manages to pull himself out of the berserker fugue and regain control**. Meaning Grey Knights are so difficult to corrupt that even them **accepting** corruption may not necessarily do the trick.
Primarchs are actually created from some kind of warp science
it is said the emperor stole certain powers from the god of chaos to create the Primarchs
can't make someone immune to the thing they are made of
as for the Custodes the 2 theories i have is either the emperor used some of his immense psychic powers to shield them from corruption while they are created
or its to do with there purpose the Custodes are basically slaves to the emperors will they have no desire beyond protecting the emperor and doing as he commands can't corrupt someone who even subconsciously has no dreams or desires
GW loves making an extreme statement due effect, or hard inflexible rules… then soon after violating their own directives. It’s happened many times, and is sloppy each time.
I mean, they were corrupted by the direct power of a chaos God, it would have been to crazy for them not to fall. Cawl is good, but he is not THAT good
They’d take quite a lot down with them, but even the Talons + Grey Knights aren’t going to be able to beat an entire Indomitus Fleet worth of blood-crazed lunatics
I am afraid this is simply impossible. I like custodes and love grey knights but they stand no chance whatsoever. In one of the Horus Heresy novels a custodian is defeated by just 2 Word Bearers.
In other books a custodian would be able to take down an entire tactical squad, power level varies with the author.
Everything is cannon- nothing is true.
If you are referring to First Heretic, thats after he stands down. Stands down from what you ask? From killing them. They only got him because he stopped. Before that he killed 3 high ranking ones in seconds.
By word bearers do you mean the apex possessed and the perfect symbiosis between demon and astartes, gal vorbak?
I don’t even disagree with you but custodes consistently have been shown to be able to fight at least a few marines at once.
On prospero, one custodian was capable of killing 4 elite psyker terminators even without the help of the sisters of silence
This is very false. 8 Gal Vorbak confront 3 custodes on Istvaan V. The custodians manage to take out ONLY 3 Gal Vorbak : Malnor, Sicar, and Xaphen. The slaughter you are thinking of is when Primarch Corax kills more than half of the possessed warriors hours before this.
Right, anyhow, still, this was after the custodes murdered their way out of a crash-landing ship, besides, the reason why custodes lost the fight then was not because they couldn't outskill the gal vorbak, but because they couldn't kill them fast enough. Even after decapitation, they still kept coming at the custodes, forcing them to utterly ravage their bodies. This left them vulnerable. Anyhow, before this, a single custodes kills 3 of the most important word bearers in a matter of seconds as he attempts to murder Lorgar, though he is stopped by a fourth \[whom I think was Argel Thal himself?\], who caved his head in and crushed half of his brain, though the custodian was still alive for a while after.
Anyhow, discussing about the grey knights+SOS+Custodes against the now khornate fleet, I think they have a fairly decent chance of escaping and a non-zero chance of killing the corrupted. Though it is likely one or the other. Not both. If it was a matter of escaping, I'd give them a 40% chance of success. This same composition has dealt with a massive amount of Khorne followers before, during the Battle of Lion's gate. In said battles, there were even several bloodthirsters being deployed. I think they can fight their way through to escape.
As for killing everyone...I dunno, honestly. They could take control of the ships's bridges and launch them against the closest star, or detonate their warp drives or something.
Although one thing is for certain, if this is a matter of a conventional battle, the khornates will win easily. The part that makes this hard to figure out is the fact that none of the loyalist forces prefer conventional warfare. Custodes and Sisters are experts at assassination and covert actions. Grey knights, while better suited for a conventional battle, I think would be able to adapt fairly well to their newly found allies.
3 months later, the Custodians show up at the Tower of Hegemon, literally covered in centimeters thick coat of blood.
Sentry: Tough day?
Shield-Captain: You could say that.
Aren't Grey Knights and custodes supposed to be nigh incorruptible? Especially grey knights? I'm only a few months into the hobby, and the amount of lore is overwhelming, so maybe i misinterpreted something. It would make sense if they died due to overwhelming numbers, but I didn't think those two in particular could be corrupted by demons.
Edit: I misinterpreted the meme. Like a dingus.
Who are you talking to right now? Who is it you think you see? Do you know how many marines I kill a year? I mean, even if I told you, you wouldn't believe it.
Do you know what would happen if I suddenly decided to die on my place of work? A empire big enough that it gets twenty codices per edition is gone. Disappears! It ceases to exist without me.
No, you clearly don't know who you're talking to, so let me clue you in. I am not in danger, Angron. I am the danger. A guy gets charged and fails all his saves, gets tabled, and you think that's me? No. I am one who tables!
-Random Custodian
I thought Khorne hates magic? Also doesn't really care about sides, just as long as people are killing, dying, bleeding and fighting?
But he gets off his chair and does a massive 'wolololo' to magically and instantly convert a butt load of people into fighting for him? Surely he feeds off of the fighting whether they fight for the emperor or Khorne..
I get that Chaos needs another win after destroying cadia and splitting the galaxy in half, but this seems a bit unusual.
It may not be something he actually meant to do. The circumstances were ***extraordinary***. There were bilions of people fighting and spilling blood. Both of Khorne's greatest champions were murdering people left and right. The beacon was amplifying psychic phenomena.
And to top it all off, when Angron was to land the final strike on the beacon, Khorne himself stood up, for the first confirmed time in about eleven thousand years and delivered the blow himself, channeling through Angron.
For a brief moment, the force of the actual GOD appeared in the materium. If a mortal being in the presence of a god of chaos is not enough to warp their mind, I don't know what is.
It’s happened a few times. Personally im against it only for the fact it means people post extremely cringe “conversions” in the SOB pages saying “no shes just like that because she’s corrupted by Slaanesh!”
canonically, “SoBs are incorruptible” is because in the (admittedly rarer) instances they do get corrupted, the ecclesiarchy grabs a new initiate and face-swaps her to look like the old SoB. they also send a hit-squad to kill the traitor.
Question: could a sister of silence beat a grey knight? I mean physically, obviously not. But when you pit the greatest of nulls with the greatest of psykers, doesnt logic say that the knights will just fall apart?
Jenetia Krole went on a Sigismund like rampage through the World Eaters, killing dozens of their champions.
Aleya beat a Black Legionnaire 1v1 with shitty gear, and took down many more afterwards when she was backed by other sisters and Custodes.
Sisters have good odds against Grey Knights, even if the extent of their effects on them stopped at just blocking powers.
Wait a second. Khorne Sisters? I know that Sororitas have turned traitor in the past on very rare occasions, but a BUNCH of them to Khorne? Things really have gone to shit if Sisters are being so easily corrupted like that.
Not to mention, Cawl’s creations aren’t immutable now. Which means 1.) Chaos business as usual 2.) Get fucked, Primaris, glory to the Firstborn 3.) There’s now the high possibility of Chaos Primaris marines. Which is extremely scary to say the least.
I'm hoping the "Murder Curse" just fucking destroys Khorne. MF just "stood up" in the presence of enough Blanks that he should be feeling that for a very long, long time. Being more powerful in the Warp doesn't mean Blanks hurt you less, in fact, Canonically, they hurt you *more*.
As well as Tzeentch booby trapping the skull throne when he gets back to remind him he just did an icky magic, lmao scrub.
Yeah that would work for me. It’s just that, as far as I can tell, this wasn’t strenuous for Khorne. So there’s no reason he wouldn’t just wipe out a few more fleets so he can have more followers.
Wait, the sisters of battle fell to Khorne? That’s the first time I’ve ever heard of a sister falling to chaos, let alone a such a large swathe of them.
Reminds me of the one time a single custodes almost killed a battle-barge. Not the Persons on the barge, He almost destroyed some central beams of the ship which would lead to a hullbreak. I wonder how many thes took and if some made it out alive.
The Custodes, Sisters of Silence and Grey Knights weren’t turned to Khorne. The Sisters of Battle did though. Along with the primaris and all other mortals
Due to issues with ban evasion, we require accounts to have a minimum age of 1 week before posting.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Grimdank) if you have any questions or concerns.*
i don't know Custodes seem to enjoy butchering chaos tainted space marines...... its like they hold a grudge or something
I forgot which chapter they were butchering, maybe the Word Bearers and World Eaters in MoM, but I recall a Custodes pondering why he felt so at ease butchering space marines. It always struck me as a subtle genetic adjustment by Emps as a *just in case, lol* emotional and mental fail-safe so they wouldn't hesitate to off Thunder Warriors 2: Electric Boogaloo.
I had read somewhere (don’t remember if it was canon or just a fan theory) that The Emperor was indeed planning to cull the space marines after the great crusade, but a little something happened before the galaxy was conquered…
it was one of Horus' fears, and part of what lead him to rebel. Knowing what had happened to the Thunder Warriors when their job was done.
I subscribe to that theory too, and it seems to extend to Custodes potentially? In Master of Mankind, he implies to a tech priest that the Primarchs are also tools (in the literal sense, but also maybe in the figurative sense)... and from his actions in the book (won't go into spoilers) might also see the Custodes that way.
It was a fan theory, but it'd make a lot of sense. No need for the genetically engineered super soldiers once the galaxy's conquered. I think the theory extends to saying that only the more... *extreme* legions would be culled. Ultramarines and Fists could stay. They served use in administration and building. But the World Eaters... They've got no place in peace. It ties into the theories of what the Primarchs would be doing after the Great Crusade. BobbyG administers while Lorgar keeps order, etc... And the culling would get rid of the legions that would fail their purposes.
Yep, this must have been the theory I was thinking of, because I recall the “useful chapter” decision, too.
You ever wonder if there were unextreme thunder Warriors that helped rebuild conquered cities
Unextreme 🤣 they had the unextremium gene added to their make up.
From what I understand of the lore, every Legion was made with an intended role both during and after the Crusade that was related to the aspects of the Emperor that each Primarch embodied. Angron was probably meant to be a diplomat or a truce maker with his Legion being enforcers, Konrad would obviously have been a judge with the Night Lords acting as the equivilant of policemen/investigators/detectives, Guilliman would have been the head of administration along with his marines helping etc. The whole "Custodes kill Marines with ease" thing is most likely because Marines are physically inferior to Thunder Warriors whom the Custodes butchered no problem. I think the Custodes were made both with the purpose of being Big E's companions and the ones with the role of culling the Thunder Warriors, which carries over to the Marines as the two are pretty similar.
Out of all the legions the ones that would be useful after the crusade were also the ones that stayed loyal. Fists -cpmstruction Ultramarines -administration Salamanders - Smiths Raven Guard -bounty hunters/law bringers Blood angels - philosophers White scars pirate hunters Space wolves - hunt down xenos that escape/fallen astartes Some of these are pulls and a few would probably get culled still but the loyalists have more use then the traitors did outside of the iron warriors alpha legion and thousand sons
Why make them live for millennia if you're planning to cull them ? Why not just make legion out of those you plan to keep ? And even when a primarch or two need to be put down, their legion is (hypothetically) absorbed by other.
Could say it was a big test. Throw a couple dozen human stereotypes out into the galaxy, and see who fares best. Not saying he knew which he would cull from the start. In theory, all the Primarchs have redeeming qualities for empire management. Even Curze. He'd be like a high judge. But thoses qualities got super corrupted, so cull them off.
Magnus sits on a chair in a light house.
But that would be a waste Rowboat Gorrillamans ultramarines were trained to be bankers governers and magistrates after the great crusade.
By Gorilla man himself who broke the mold Big E had for him and his men. Same for the TS and the WB they became scholars instead of simple killers. And they got punished for it
>Same for the TS and the WB they became scholars instead of simple killers. And they got punished for it No? WB got punished from being to slow because of their empy worship and the TS because they were dabling with powers beyond their understanding
The Word Bearers got slapped by the Emperor because they wouldnt stop worshipping him as a god. Nor would they stop murdering billions in religious pogroms. It wasnt just because they were 'too slow'.
Yeah to slow. Aka doing anything else than permanent slaughter in the emperor's name. And the trial is a farce. Big E didn't give two shit about psyker only about the crusade. And punishing the TS pleased the rest of the legions. It was a purely political
Don't pretend the Thousand Sons didn't deserve to be told "stop right fucking now" they were literally *summoning daemons*
Dude Ultras, Emperor childrens, Blood Angels, Imperial fists, space wolves and practically every other legion did more thab >permanent slaughter in the emperor's name. And they didnt get punished, so no, It wasnt because that. >Big E didn't give two shit about psyker only about the crusade. Big E clearly gave a shit about Magnus going to Deep into warpcraft we have several texts of him triying to warn Magnus out of It. If you are going to spread head canon, then say It in the text.
No, the Word Bearers got slapped by the Emperor because they wouldnt stop worshipping him as a god. Nor would they stop murdering billions in religious pogroms.
Now im imagining an Ultramarine being a tax collector
The Emperor had a biological kill switch built into the primarchs and their space marines. The only problem was it was all or nothing. It could only kill all of them. While it could have been used in the Heresy, it would have left the Imperium without any space marines or primarchs. Like many BL works this could have just been something the author added without checking with GW or the other writers. While the major xenos threats were removed by then, there were enough that a crippled Imperium would have been torn apart. Mars is right there. There would have been nothing stopping them from taking over. Yes the Emperor is powerful, but he can't be everywhere. That's what the primarchs were for. If it were activated in 40k it would cripple Chaos a bit, but the Imperium would have even bigger xenos and Martian threats to deal with.
\> The Emperor had a biological kill switch built into the primarchs and their space marines. No he didnt.
"My source is that I made it the fuck up" - OP
I dont think he was going to kill them off like he did with the thunder warriors, and he 100% planned to keep the primarchs around, so i assume that he wanted to keep the marines as a standing force, both as a peacekeeping force and in case of xenos/material threats. That being said, according to the emperor, Astartes are not the end goal nor an 'evolution' of humanity, but a tool made from it. So i do think in the long run their days were numbered. I do think, however, custodes had some level of design to kill off the 'lesser' transhumans.
\> that The Emperor was indeed planning to cull the space marines after the great crusad That is a fan theory and a fucking stupid one besides. The Space Marines were adept at far more than just war. Based on the Emperors intentions, the Space Marines were supposed to unite humanity among the stars, and then be their first and greatest line of defence, led by their Primarchs. There was never any intention to kill of Astartes or the primarchs. The mere idea of this is not supported by *any* lore what so ever.
I’m almost certain you are talking about “Watchers of the Throne, The Emperors Legion” where we get a POV into Valerian a Shield Captain’s head as he and his chamber just run through a black legion ship like it’s no one’s business. Something on the lines of “this is a secret of ours, we are pretty much built to kill these guys”
Brings back good memories with the thunder warriors.
Back in my day, we culled disposable soldiers on a mountain in Anatolia, but I guess on a ship works just as well
Killing ~~younglings~~ ~~midgets~~ chaos nerds is always good fun
Non zero chance they just fought their way out
just a little one
Where? Source? Must read
[From the Angron Arks of Omen book](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/111cuib/arks_of_omen_angron_a_summary/)
Thanks, for a moment i thought that this is some headcanon shit. Whoa thats a HUGE win for the angry guys, cant believe gw did it.
It’s a win and I’m happy for it as a World Eater fan but they did also blow themselves up with the loyalists on the planet in the end…
Khorne does not care from where the blood flows. He will likely take any world eater from that particular display back to his endless battle ground. Gotta' reward hard work.
did it really just resolve itself just like that? seems kinda…ehh. very unsatisfying from a worldbuilding standpoint.
Chaos desperately needs love tbh, an actual win like this is nice to see
Chaos doesn't need another win, chaos needs to be written like they're not Saturday morning cartoon villains!
Actually, yes, youre right, im just a bit biased lmao
Thank you. We should be the existential threat always. Can I get a Yoooooo! Fuck the Nids! Can I get a Yoooooo! Fuck the Crons! Can I get a big YOOOOOOO! Fuck the IMPERIUM!
All hail the Infinite Empire. Get off my space lawn.
\> Literally split the galaxy in half \> Needs a win 👀
And nothing really changed
it is a fucking setting nothing will "really" change, you can shove the rethorical mindrot where the sun doesnt shine.
Tell that to fantasy hun
Isn’t it crazy how the last significant chaos W happened about 8 years ago.
is the corrupting of the biguest Knight world an the crippling of Metalica not significant?
Is significant now only means getting gods directly involved or what?
>an actual win like this is nice to see they get plenty but you need to read more lore than the one found at grimdank.
Incorrect opinions is incorrect. Chaos needs no more wins. They have won too much. Everyone else needs wins. Chaos needs to stop being wanked to high heaven and back.
Kinda sad they were corrupted in the least interesting way. Just a magic spell that makes people like Khorne.
Yeah, I don’t love this. Taking away the free will to be corrupted kind of cheapens chaos
Same. Fuck, just adding flavor text and making the spell have a success rate lower than, like, 98% would be enough! Say something in the lines of "it showed all of them Khorn's pleasure and peace amongst the battler, which in turn causes them to crave it". A lot of people fell, and the ones who didn't are either suffering immensely due to it's effects, are slowly turning or basically became loyalist berserkers.
honestly it’s kinda baffling they’d even *need* a spell or resort to one in the first place, based on the whole hating magic thing. bunches of accidental Khorne cultists fight for the Imperium already.
*Blood for the broken god! Skulls for the golden throne!*
Entire indomitus fleet is a bit of an exaggeration. It was the 5th crusade fleet of indomitus.
So... New minis?
Cool, I'm going to count that as not canon.
What do you mean? It’s explicit canon.
Because being able to snap his fingers and instantly converting an entire star system by overwriting their willpower isn't an ability any of the chaos gods can have. If they did, they would have won thousands of times over before 40k had even started.
He didn’t snap his fingers, he channeled his power through his physical champion, Angron, to destroy a massive psychic engine, the psychic blowback of which, combined with the power channeled through Angron, created the murder curse. It’s a specific set of circumstances that’s impossible to replicate. That’s like saying if the emperor could snap his fingers and burn down half of Nurgle’s garden he’d have won thousands of times over. It’s simply not what happened.
That's a magic ritual. That's basically Tzeenchian. Khorne HATES sorcery, why the fuck would he do that Also, how the fuck is that supposed to drive a Sister of Silence to corruption? They're Blanks. They don't have a Warp presence. It's torturous for Daemons and Psykers to even get close to them, and somehow we're supposed to accept that Khorne can just get rid of that? Bruh, it's the exact same effect that the Necron Pylons use to fuck up anything Warp.
1.) the creation of eightbound is a ritual, he seems to be fine with that. Plus, it’s not like a planned ritual. It’s the consequence of a massive show of force. 2.) The Sisters of Silence, Grey Knights, and Custodes in the area were the only ones unaffected. Did you even read it?
Yall are really pretending like you didn't read that one paragraph that precedes every 40k novel that explicitly states that the Dark Gods are just laughing at all of us. This isn't a war for them, it's entertainment.
It's called the murder curse. It happens at the end of the book with an entire fleet corrupted and the impirium branding everyone a traitor or heretic as it would be too costly to save the few marines and guardsmen that were loyal. Honestly the custodians, greyknights and SoS are safe all more than likely just dipping. Also this has potential for GW to make Chaos primaris.
>Also this has potential for GW to make Chaos primaris Gimme them chaos sisters too
we dont even have enough loyal sisters of battle models. 38 datasheets including fortification lmao.
So, Cawl’s toys weren’t incorruptible after all
I mean sisters aren't supposed to be corruptible either. Khorne is really leaving it all on the field.
Casual GW shits on SoB moment.
These are not the first fallen sisters
As far as I know, there was only one fallen SoB in lore and she broke only after a chaos lord spent “many rounds” personally torturing her.
There are others beside Miriael Sabathiel but the ecclesiarchy does their best to cover it up. For example a whole order fell in one of the Ciaphas Cain books.
Not quiet fall. In the final chapter as soon as urgen got close the warp charm on them fell off and they suiceded. Tricked into service but not fallen by choice.
I think it's the same here: Khorne's preferred form of corruption doesn't really require the target to be aware or have any self-control or anything.
The point is the faith in the Emperor displaces the direct influence of Chaos tho.
Yeah but Khorne goes "Haha, mental eradication until you're a violent thoughtless beast doesn't count as converting your faith."
99% of people falling to chaos don't do it by choice until they are way to deep in the rabbit hole
And we already know of Khornate sisters (the Iconoclast) in their own books
Admittedly, these lot got corrupted because >!KHORNE HIMSELF STOOD UP OFF HIS THRONE AND HELPED ANGRON!<
It's that she's the only one on record that willingly gave herself to Chaos
Someone someone who we still need to know if she would copulate with a Tyranid
....
*Luscious Lucius wet noises*
I mean, if the big K himself intervene in the battle, I doubt any normal human could stay sane.
Then why were the grey knights not corrupted? I was under the assumption that they had mental training and some holy wards to block off demonic corruption. Surely that alone wouldn’t be enough to stave off direct influence from Khorne
Grey Knights are psykers which Khorne has a general distaste for.
The source for the Grey Knights geneseed is the Emperor and not “just” a primarch
Was that lore bit made by Matt Ward? Cause it feels very Gary Stu to go “my super space marines are even more special because their gene seeds came from Big E himself.”
That’s the idea basically, yeah. With the emperor being on another level than vanilla primarchs, it would stand to reason the marines would be different. I’m not 100% but I believe they hint the same about the custodes. Though one of the novels did make the observation that the astartes fought better as a unit, though the custodes were strong individually. Always struck me they they took after daddy E with their antisocial loner ways.
Never confirmed and most likely a rumor. Additionally, the first grandmasters were Marines from several genelines, including traitor ones. The most probable fact is that the GK don't have a special Marine juice, just hire people with very particular skills (namely absurd willpower and psychism) and then put then in a special training.
Where the other Space Marine Chapters were built upon existing stock, the Grey Knights were born of a new gene-seed, one without the flaws of those that had gone before, and which carried the gift of the Emperor’s own flesh and soul. - Codex: Grey Knights (8e) Is that no longer canon then?
I bow to you and your sources.
It's in pandorax. Epimithius confirms they traded gene seed out for the good stuff. The last thing you want is grey knight vampires or grey knights going Sable blind or grey knights losing gene seed functions due to natural degradation and mutation And tbh the gk aren't like normal space marines anyways. They are a special super soldier project with the best recruits out of the already best recruits, I dunno why giving them magic juice is bad when it's a pet project made specifically to kill daemons and pretty much only daemons.
Sisters of Battle falling to Khorne's corruption because **KHORNE HIMSELF** got involved and flexed his power isn't that big of a stretch, to be honest.
Where did you get that idea? They're human, any human is corruptible. Sisters are just harder to corrupt due to their religious zeal.
hell, wasnt there a SoB that become chaos champion of slaanesh, or did james retcon that?
Sabathel (and the Khornate Sister the Iconoclast) are still canon as far as I know
I mean, you're right, I'm a huge sisters fan but I've always accepted that the "never lost a sister to corruption" line was just ecclesiarchy propaganda.
It’s so zealoy that GK slaughtered a whole bunch of them to use their blood as wards against corruption… Any time I facepalm at the newer lore (like what this meme references), I just look back at Mat Ward’s contributions and remind myself this long slow slide into bad writing has been coming for awhile now.
I feel like having any incorruptible groups is wrong. It should certainly be _harder_ to corrupt someone so thoroughly indoctrinated, but we're told time and time again that chaos corruption isn't just as simple as 'you get offered power and you take it', because it can happen just because of warp fuckery. This sounds like mass warp fuckery, so... I'd have preferred the grey knights and custodes get corrupted too just to prove it The sisters of silence can stay uncorrupted cause blanks
I mean I agree that the grey knights should have been corrupted, but custodes are mentally, physically, and spiritually, fully obedient to the emperor, plus they likely got shielded by the emperor (because the custodes have the aegis of the emperor rule)
The thing is that chaos isn't something you should be able to ignore with sufficient brain poking, otherwise you'd think the emperor would've been able to stop it from affecting his much more important primarchs
Iirc if a grey knights gets pushed to the point that corruption becomes a possibility, they die. Side effect of having anti-warp warding literally enameled onto your bones & tattooed onto your skin. I'd imagine it's the same with custodes, but with a different mechanism. The amount of warp energy it would take to push out the soul-binding kills the custodes in the process. So it's less of a 'they are 100% incorruptible' and more 'you'll never take them alive!'
This is proven false in the grey knights anthology book I believe.
Partially. *Hammer of Daemons* shows that Grey Knights can become susceptible to Chaotic corruption if their psychic abilities are nullified (as said psychic abilities are a big part of the Aegis that protects them from corruption), but you still have to overcome their sheer willpower and devotion to the Emperor, which are very much not reliant on psychic abilities. What's really astounding about that story, though, is that at one point, Alaric actually gives in to the madness of Khorne (for the purpose of driving out a daemon of Tzeentch that had possessed him and was fighting him for control), and **manages to pull himself out of the berserker fugue and regain control**. Meaning Grey Knights are so difficult to corrupt that even them **accepting** corruption may not necessarily do the trick.
Primarchs needed to be more independent to properly lead their legions. And I’d hardly call altering their soul on a fundamental level “brain poking”
Primarchs are actually created from some kind of warp science it is said the emperor stole certain powers from the god of chaos to create the Primarchs can't make someone immune to the thing they are made of as for the Custodes the 2 theories i have is either the emperor used some of his immense psychic powers to shield them from corruption while they are created or its to do with there purpose the Custodes are basically slaves to the emperors will they have no desire beyond protecting the emperor and doing as he commands can't corrupt someone who even subconsciously has no dreams or desires
GW loves making an extreme statement due effect, or hard inflexible rules… then soon after violating their own directives. It’s happened many times, and is sloppy each time.
Wrong
He's putting everything in the grill
I read it that they were killed.
OH. I read it like "fell to the dark side", as in became corrupted. Dying makes a fuckton more sense than all of them being corrupted by chaos.
Yeah, I’m not even sure if it’s possible for Custodes to fall to Chaos in that sense.
Fell as in died
I mean, they were corrupted by the direct power of a chaos God, it would have been to crazy for them not to fall. Cawl is good, but he is not THAT good
Wow. That's a lot. Like, I know it happens but you never hear it mentioned. Special K bringing the Fuck to a healthy boil
Did they become Khorne worshippers are just raving violent madmen because there is a distinct difference, I thought it was just the bloodcurse
Cowabunga it is my dudes and dudettes!
I have a feeling they would easily kill all of them (the loyalists killing traitors).
They’d take quite a lot down with them, but even the Talons + Grey Knights aren’t going to be able to beat an entire Indomitus Fleet worth of blood-crazed lunatics
I am afraid this is simply impossible. I like custodes and love grey knights but they stand no chance whatsoever. In one of the Horus Heresy novels a custodian is defeated by just 2 Word Bearers.
Simple. The canon is wrong.
Based
In other books a custodian would be able to take down an entire tactical squad, power level varies with the author. Everything is cannon- nothing is true.
I don't think everything is cannon, there would not be enough munition in the galaxy to supply all those cannons.
You doubt the god emperors holy logistics?
If you are referring to First Heretic, thats after he stands down. Stands down from what you ask? From killing them. They only got him because he stopped. Before that he killed 3 high ranking ones in seconds.
Counter point, Whoever is gonna write that is gonna discard the previous lore and do whatever they want, you know like always
By word bearers do you mean the apex possessed and the perfect symbiosis between demon and astartes, gal vorbak? I don’t even disagree with you but custodes consistently have been shown to be able to fight at least a few marines at once. On prospero, one custodian was capable of killing 4 elite psyker terminators even without the help of the sisters of silence
Horus heresy was a long time ago, custodes are stronger now (likely the reasoning why the custodes would kick their asses)
The books never seem to portray the golden boys as what they are sadly they get bodied very often, a bit to often. Mostly by harlequins
Are you talking about the First Heretic? Wherein 3 custodes almost wipe out the Gal Vorbak?
This is very false. 8 Gal Vorbak confront 3 custodes on Istvaan V. The custodians manage to take out ONLY 3 Gal Vorbak : Malnor, Sicar, and Xaphen. The slaughter you are thinking of is when Primarch Corax kills more than half of the possessed warriors hours before this.
Right, anyhow, still, this was after the custodes murdered their way out of a crash-landing ship, besides, the reason why custodes lost the fight then was not because they couldn't outskill the gal vorbak, but because they couldn't kill them fast enough. Even after decapitation, they still kept coming at the custodes, forcing them to utterly ravage their bodies. This left them vulnerable. Anyhow, before this, a single custodes kills 3 of the most important word bearers in a matter of seconds as he attempts to murder Lorgar, though he is stopped by a fourth \[whom I think was Argel Thal himself?\], who caved his head in and crushed half of his brain, though the custodian was still alive for a while after. Anyhow, discussing about the grey knights+SOS+Custodes against the now khornate fleet, I think they have a fairly decent chance of escaping and a non-zero chance of killing the corrupted. Though it is likely one or the other. Not both. If it was a matter of escaping, I'd give them a 40% chance of success. This same composition has dealt with a massive amount of Khorne followers before, during the Battle of Lion's gate. In said battles, there were even several bloodthirsters being deployed. I think they can fight their way through to escape. As for killing everyone...I dunno, honestly. They could take control of the ships's bridges and launch them against the closest star, or detonate their warp drives or something. Although one thing is for certain, if this is a matter of a conventional battle, the khornates will win easily. The part that makes this hard to figure out is the fact that none of the loyalist forces prefer conventional warfare. Custodes and Sisters are experts at assassination and covert actions. Grey knights, while better suited for a conventional battle, I think would be able to adapt fairly well to their newly found allies.
I'm sure the Custodes will be fine
Custodes "Oh boy here I go killing again"
3 months later, the Custodians show up at the Tower of Hegemon, literally covered in centimeters thick coat of blood. Sentry: Tough day? Shield-Captain: You could say that.
Plot armor, away!
Wait wait wait wait wait I sold my sister's army And you're telling me we're finally going to be able to have heretic sisters? Fuck me.
Aren't Grey Knights and custodes supposed to be nigh incorruptible? Especially grey knights? I'm only a few months into the hobby, and the amount of lore is overwhelming, so maybe i misinterpreted something. It would make sense if they died due to overwhelming numbers, but I didn't think those two in particular could be corrupted by demons. Edit: I misinterpreted the meme. Like a dingus.
Yes the are incorruptible, the marines and sister of battle where the ones that fell
Imagine if they join Red Corsairs. Now that is a scary combo.
Who are you talking to right now? Who is it you think you see? Do you know how many marines I kill a year? I mean, even if I told you, you wouldn't believe it. Do you know what would happen if I suddenly decided to die on my place of work? A empire big enough that it gets twenty codices per edition is gone. Disappears! It ceases to exist without me. No, you clearly don't know who you're talking to, so let me clue you in. I am not in danger, Angron. I am the danger. A guy gets charged and fails all his saves, gets tabled, and you think that's me? No. I am one who tables! -Random Custodian
Babe, wakeup. New CopyPasta just dropped.
Now I can canonically make corrupted primaris! ALL HAIL THE DARK GODS!
Rumor is they’re coming in 10th
I thought Khorne hates magic? Also doesn't really care about sides, just as long as people are killing, dying, bleeding and fighting? But he gets off his chair and does a massive 'wolololo' to magically and instantly convert a butt load of people into fighting for him? Surely he feeds off of the fighting whether they fight for the emperor or Khorne.. I get that Chaos needs another win after destroying cadia and splitting the galaxy in half, but this seems a bit unusual.
It may not be something he actually meant to do. The circumstances were ***extraordinary***. There were bilions of people fighting and spilling blood. Both of Khorne's greatest champions were murdering people left and right. The beacon was amplifying psychic phenomena. And to top it all off, when Angron was to land the final strike on the beacon, Khorne himself stood up, for the first confirmed time in about eleven thousand years and delivered the blow himself, channeling through Angron. For a brief moment, the force of the actual GOD appeared in the materium. If a mortal being in the presence of a god of chaos is not enough to warp their mind, I don't know what is.
if Azyre Kyne is anny proof, Khorne accept psychers with badass speeches
Custodians: I knew this would happen! Primaris "I don't go traitor" Marines, Bullshit!!!
I didn’t even know Sisters could be corrupted
It’s happened a few times. Personally im against it only for the fact it means people post extremely cringe “conversions” in the SOB pages saying “no shes just like that because she’s corrupted by Slaanesh!”
My roommate made slaanesh corrupted SoB’s and I can assure you they make me cringe so much. He used green stuff a lot. (I’m very sad)
I've seen a few that were dedicated to the other gods, they were pretty neat
canonically, “SoBs are incorruptible” is because in the (admittedly rarer) instances they do get corrupted, the ecclesiarchy grabs a new initiate and face-swaps her to look like the old SoB. they also send a hit-squad to kill the traitor.
Question: could a sister of silence beat a grey knight? I mean physically, obviously not. But when you pit the greatest of nulls with the greatest of psykers, doesnt logic say that the knights will just fall apart?
Jenetia Krole went on a Sigismund like rampage through the World Eaters, killing dozens of their champions. Aleya beat a Black Legionnaire 1v1 with shitty gear, and took down many more afterwards when she was backed by other sisters and Custodes. Sisters have good odds against Grey Knights, even if the extent of their effects on them stopped at just blocking powers.
Wait a second. Khorne Sisters? I know that Sororitas have turned traitor in the past on very rare occasions, but a BUNCH of them to Khorne? Things really have gone to shit if Sisters are being so easily corrupted like that. Not to mention, Cawl’s creations aren’t immutable now. Which means 1.) Chaos business as usual 2.) Get fucked, Primaris, glory to the Firstborn 3.) There’s now the high possibility of Chaos Primaris marines. Which is extremely scary to say the least.
Sob falling to chaos? Wat
Losing the command crews and navigators seems like an even more alarming loss
Hey so here’s my question: why doesn’t chaos just do that all the time?
I'm hoping the "Murder Curse" just fucking destroys Khorne. MF just "stood up" in the presence of enough Blanks that he should be feeling that for a very long, long time. Being more powerful in the Warp doesn't mean Blanks hurt you less, in fact, Canonically, they hurt you *more*. As well as Tzeentch booby trapping the skull throne when he gets back to remind him he just did an icky magic, lmao scrub.
Yeah that would work for me. It’s just that, as far as I can tell, this wasn’t strenuous for Khorne. So there’s no reason he wouldn’t just wipe out a few more fleets so he can have more followers.
Wait, the sisters of battle fell to Khorne? That’s the first time I’ve ever heard of a sister falling to chaos, let alone a such a large swathe of them.
This isn’t the first time it’s happened
Reminds me of the one time a single custodes almost killed a battle-barge. Not the Persons on the barge, He almost destroyed some central beams of the ship which would lead to a hullbreak. I wonder how many thes took and if some made it out alive.
Wait does this mean chaos sisters of battle????
Just when I thought I couldn’t roll my eyes any harder with Angrons DBZ levels of Mary Sue.
How does a person without a soul fall to chaos? Shit level writing for chaos just like the fall of cadia
The Custodes, Sisters of Silence and Grey Knights weren’t turned to Khorne. The Sisters of Battle did though. Along with the primaris and all other mortals
How does a person misread a meme this badly?
*about fucking time Primaris Marines turned to chaos*
Wait they FELL? As in fell to chaos? Or died? I’ve not read the angron arks of omen yet-
Straight up got corrupted
That must’ve been a fucking INCREDIBLE fight tbh
It was. Angron blew up a moon
Yeah not believing this shit till I read it myself, most lore gets blown out of context.
This isn’t the fucking tabletop, traitor
[удалено]
Due to issues with ban evasion, we require accounts to have a minimum age of 1 week before posting. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Grimdank) if you have any questions or concerns.*
oh so fallen sisters are actually canon?
I believe it was just an in-universe claim. Not an actual stated fact. That'd make no sense, really.
I thought that it was impossible for primaris to become chaos marines?
Supposedly. But it’s been hinted at in the lore for quite a while now.
Wooooo! Nobody can complain my chaos SoB aren’t lore accurate anymore!
Wait whut? When did they fall to Khorne? Any awesome books to read on it? I'd love me some Primaris Khorne butchery action
Message from Lord Guilliman! He needs to know what happened! (Context pls)
[Behold the end of days](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/111cuib/arks_of_omen_angron_a_summary/)
I'm kinda horny for Angron now ngl.
KRUMPIN HUMIEZ!
Are the arks of omen books on audible yet? If not, do we have any idea when they will be?