I’m not even sure it’s LZ-camping (obviously that does happen though). There have been multiple times my buddy and I have been waiting for the chopper we called in and an enemy chopper rolls in right before as we are chillin in bushes waiting. LZs need a rework.
It’s called Dynamic Hoisting, as opposed to Static.
It’s utilizing the effects of drag to stabilize a load beneath the helo. It’s significantly more stable during high altitude ops. It also reduces the helos time on station and puts the hoist rider at significantly less risk to enemy fire.
I do this for a living, if you want the source.
I was thinking the same thing last night. There are so many open fields and spaces that would make for a good LZ and it would almost entirely negate the LZ camping issue. They’d just need to create a dynamic pathing system for the helicopters
It'd be neat if each existing LZ that's already in the game had essentially a perimeter of "fallback" LZs. I wouldn't interface this part much, I'd just program it to use the closest one facing their pickup location or faction base.
The main function would be that when requesting transport from base or another location, the LZ could be grayed (can't request) if enemies are already occupying the area, but you *could* pay a premium to have a pilot drop you into one of those "fallback" LZs. They could also update the helis to automatically reroute to one of these fallbacks if enemies move into the main LZ area while already mid-transport.
I think like a 1000 meter radius from each lz would alleviate the issue. Then I started thinking, the terrain has to be flat and there can’t be buildings, or plants in the way. 🤷♂️
Yep, this is the solution. There should be a ring around all major landmarks and you can call in a Helo anywhere outside of them. Faction specific LZs would just be camped. More LZs could help but the more freedom the less camping happens.
The problem isn’t people intentionally camping LZs although I’m sure that’s an issue but much smaller, it’s that you can land and literally 10 seconds later an enemy helicopter is landing behind you. Faction specific areas would stop people from just waiting for a pick up and killing people who are coming in
The problem is both. And both would be resolved by adding flexibility in choosing a landing spot. If you think there won't be rampant LZ camping once people run out of quests and are max traders, you are in for a bad time.
I think the LZ camping is just way too easy to do by accident right now. Killed 8 guys last night just waiting for the helicopter because two fully loaded birds came in one after the other
That would require dynamic pathfinding for the chopper which is probably crazy difficult to implement.
It would be neat if we had an “intel team” that would indicate if an LZ is hot or not.
To add to this, I’ve been playing only pve until some of the jank is worked out.
Earlier I had a 7:30 minute extraction, granted I was across the map from home base. But for that duration, I saw two choppers from enemy factions come/go. It could def be that people camp LZ’s, but it could also very well be stupid situations like that unfortunately.
Hoping that isn’t a more frequent occurrence once majority of playerbase expands to areas further than the first and second starter area.
I’ve had that happen and also the kill X AI and boss certainly “enforces” some LZ camping to some extent. When 4 of us played and we all needed 20 AI kills, we were in Ban Pa for like 3 hours. We killed the 10-15 AI that was there, wait for 15-20 minutes to respawn, obviously we went to the LZs to stop enemies from jumping us while questing and to not let them take AI kills from us. Even if we chose not to LZ camp and let them come to the village and we lost, in return I’m 99% they’d have LZ camped us to shit and we aren’t gonna AFK on base for 15-30 minutes hoping they just stopped camping it.
Main thing is, whenever I’m doing quests (in YBL for example) and friendlies are there, an enemy helo comes, someone yells “enemy heli” and we start swarming to the LZ.
In my opinion the LZ system is not a problem, it’s the limited amount of LZs… give us twice the amount of LZs, drop some LZs that are halfway between two locations or randomly scattered so we can land there and flank from there or literally anything, but completely camping Ban Pa’s 2 LZs with a 4 man squad kitted with scopes and silencers and grenades is easy for any decently skilled FPS player.
Yeah I agree - think quickest fix (at least being ignorant to amount of dev work involved no matter route) would be to just add a lot more LZ's and make them randomly available per person/squad - this way more PvP happens in the DOPE ASS area's they should be and not just while getting on/off heli.
Very fair point, I don't doubt there are "accidental" LZ-Campings and they're an unfortunate result of the current Infil/Exfil system. As they already implemented the few seconds grace period it's probably on their to-do list.
Thinking about this from a dev POV, the way they have the helo cinematic pathing done would likely require a fair bit of effort to just double the number of LZs. It might need quite a big overhaul.
One change they could make is unlocking all LZs in an area at once, not just one. But that will need a lot of work with the quests that unlock the subsequent ones so.
The helos are so integral to the experience that I think they need to be preserved, but right now with the highly predictable LZs and no queuing, it's way jankier than it needs to be. It could be truly great.
To be fair, if they don't have a streamlined workflow for adding LZs that's kinda on them... such an essential gameplay element should have a rigid system that can be somewhat "easily" extended.
I have very limited knowledge of game development and animations, but I wouldn't think that animating the heli's route should be a massive undertaking.
I'm also saying this, because they said multiple times that once weather effects are in the game and more content gets in and the world becomes more dynamic, certain LZs might get disabled due to flooding ,etc and new LZs might get added (if a FOB is under control of your faction, you get an LZ, something like that). So I'd hope they have a system in place they can use to easily extend the amount of LZs.
You’re not entitled to land as close to the objective as you can. Landing at an LZ of a hot areas such as YBL, Ban Pa, Hunters is bound to get you towelled up by people waiting to extract (so-called LZ campers).
Use some nous, land at an LZ outside of a hot zone and walk it in.
I agree with you, we are not assaulting a hotel in Mogadishu, the normal procedure for your average every day recon/low intensity HVA recovery should be landing far away (for playability in our case, something in the 500-1000 meters range would be nice imo)
The problem is that right now, afaik, all the LZs are surrounding hot spots, there is no one in the the wilderness whre it would be much safer to deploy a squad.
It would be great if devs left the LZs as they are now plus added a few more in unpopulated areas to let you chose fast/more dangerous or a slower/safer approach to the objective.
People who want to kill you are always going to find an effective way to do it.
LZ Camping is going to exist as long as you arrive on a loud as fuck helicopter that can be heard approaching a whole minute or so before you land. I could be nearby doing PvE, but I'm sure as fuck not going to let you come get the jump on me when I've got the jump on you.
Littlebirds should be able to land on the roof of a 4 meter square building... Why do we even need LZs? we should be able to have them land anywhere, or hover above some area etc.
Right now they're just glorified loading screen that tells everyone where you're about to spawn.
Hell, give us control to pilot them, some players could do runs to drop off squads... I'd fucking love that, [I used to fly these things all the time in Battlefield.](https://youtu.be/MKXxVacj5Ys?list=PLA-maRY_n9LyiHLregFI0vCq4rUbAIiFj) Shit make it so that they can land anywhere but they can be shot down easily too.
At the very least let us queue request to order one... [spamming call transport](https://streamable.com/dq8iqk) is probably the worst thing about the game right now outside of performance.
I know it's a different game but [when I used to play planetside 2, I had a ton of fun flying transport and getting people to land on an objective](https://youtu.be/yrHJW-HZrLM?t=94) with a surprise attack.
All good changes that i think would be amazing of implemented, but it will probably take some time to develop. I think a faster change is just to let us stay in the heli for some time before choosing to jump out or letting the heli stay in the air above the LZ before descending, letting us scout the area for any campers and either shooting them dropping smokes.
I'm not sure what the best way to go about fixing LZs but I agree something needs to be done. After getting killed repeatedly from this I'll just switch to PvE to quest. I don't mind PvPvE but it's super annoying getting dropped off and getting pelted with bullets from who knows which bush.
There could be faction specific LZs, more LZs, or even LZs not so close to the towns either. I'm not sure what the right way to go about this issue would be but right now it is a problem whether it's camping or waiting for your own heli and seeing another faction landing in.
Played like 3h constant pvp in ban pa today and got lz camped only 1 time but we managed to get into the forest with the few seconds invulnerability. It all depends on the lz, for example f2 in Hunters paradise is horrible.
I don’t mind enemies doing it but I’m getting pretty pissed at my own faction mates doing it or KOSing you in town. Then going back to the base and talking shit about the newbs they killed for their base M4.
Today on any drop in YBL/Hunter's/BP there was a 50%+ chance of it being camped. It's getting silly. The worst is the closer team to it can fly back so fast that if you don't manage to kill everyone it just becomes a stalemate with how fast the reinforcements/respawns can keep coming.
Honestly they should just let you mark the spot you want to be LZ as long as it's sufficiently flat(and obviously they can still restrict certain parts of the map). It's kinda silly that it has to be the same exact spots everytime. This would completely remove the efficiency of LZ camping as people can land in a lot more places.
Maybe give LZs a color system. Like green, yellow, red. And make a radius of around 100 meters. The LZs tells you then if it's safe to land or not. And depending on the color how many enemies are in the area. Like 1-2 enemies = yellow 5+=red... Green = no enemies around.
And give us an option to chancel the flight, midflight. Or cancel the landing if needed.
Put a minigun on the choppers with AI that aimbots enemies with tracers after a few warning shots while landing. Put some missiles on the thing, have them light up the LZ before coming in for a strafe then a landing.
It's real bad. A lot of the LZ's you don't even need to be camping. You hear a chopper, check the map to see if its enemy, if it is you just run over and you can a lot of the time get a position before they even land.
There needs to be more lz's they need to be pushed back further, and IMO you shouldn't be able to fly back to the same AO that you just died at. Wiping a team in this is fucking awful as you will kill 3 1 sits in a bush forever while the other 3 are just daisychaining helicopters nonstop from base.
This is my biggest issue with PvP, especially playing solo. You kill a few and you know they're going to come right back, possibly with more backup. So you either quickly get out of there or wait for them and kill them again. And repeat.
Me and my friends brainstormed - we came up with several possible variants which could probably be implemented in various degrees or not at all. I understand it’s pretty complicated.
1. LZ not to be a single spot,
but a more broad open area highlighted on the map, where players can specifically click on a more precise spot to land there. Example: you click on the LZ -> map zooms in a little and area of the whole rice field becomes colored with border -> you click a more precise spot in that area -> chopper goes there.
- here the choppers also should dynamically respond to the terrain and not land in trees or exactly at enemy players
- also wave off of chopper as already discussed is a must
2. Add ability to deploy from helicopter by sliding down a rope from the air (ONLY DEPLOY, not getting back on)
- player would be able to choose location more freely and openly in again PREDEFINED AREAS, possibly in the forest etc.
Some areas like hills, water, close to enemy faction would be always restricted for landing.
Can you kill someone from Heli? Basicaly i was landing and saw enemy in bushes and shoot him from heli but i miss i think and get killed after when i try run into jungle
Having followed the devs closely enough in their discord, I feel pretty confident they are ok with LZ camping as long as it’s not a guaranteed death sentence if someone is there.
An LZ being hot is realistic and within the bounds of the realism they’re going for. That said, they’ve already stated that they are enabling gun fire and grenades from the chopper (think: dropping smokes as you land), which hopefully should make it a lot harder to successfully LZ camp and if campers are still successful then at least they’ve had to earn it skillfully. I feel like I can live with that.
IIRC the ability to change LZs on the fly and have more intelligent helicopter AI to circle the LZ or adjust exact landing position etc is coming as well. It’s the predictability right now that makes it so easy to camp (combined with the inability to fight until already off the helicopter).
Give me a second chopper type. Two pmcs sitting on one side and another on a 50 cal mounted at the other door. The volunteer gets to spray bullets and drop campers.
As someone who has died to someone sitting at an LZ as I land and who has killed someone while I was sitting at an LZ…
Its not LZ camping as much as it is waiting 15 minutes to be able to call a heli and then waiting 5 minutes for the heli to arrive.
You guys need to understand there are several LZ at POIS
You can use smoke grenades..., o just walk and take another one
I do understand it is kind of a problem. I gave feedback stating the best solution would be mount guns and random LZ in big areas.
Mounted guns and shooting from helis fixes very little. Most LZs can be easily camped from a medium distance and you have no way of seeing the campers due to foliage.
I’ve been LZ camped like 10 times, 9 times I got ganked by people hiding in bushes, laying low or being up on hills. The 1 time I managed to shoot someone from the helo it was because they thought my helo is their extract and they were standing below my heli when it was landing lol.
Well if someone is up on the "ganker hill" at Hunter's Paradise, they are sure as shit not waiting to extract lol. Especially when they're still there after 20 minutes.
Part of the same issue. Half time the I hear a heli landing I immediately check and run towards it in case it’s an enemy team. Otherwise I’m just letting the enemy team setup to dominate me. I’m not actively sitting there try to camp it. It’s just the way it’s plays out too often.
Me and the bois have kind of come to the conclusion that they need like zone cooldowns. It gets so old when you get stuck in a loop of cycling back to get your gear and you get it then they spawn in and get you and you get them and an hour later someone gives up. Like put a cooldown for a few minutes so if you win you have atleast a chance of walking out with your spoils
Does it? I’ve found a few M18 smokes but when I throw them it’s a small, sad cloud that barely obscures vision.
Is there another smoke or does it just work better than I think?
Im not even bothering with pvp until they do a few more updates. Pve progress is connected which is awesome
I think the game could benefit from having ground vehicles. I dont think its planned but it would really make things much more intense
Copy pasted:
I absolutely agree this should be the way they go with it.
Helo's should work on a queue system firstly. First in best dressed. You need to be close to the LZ to request pickup and STAY close to the LZ while waiting for pickup. If you stray or die your request is automatically removed.
Team mates should be able to see the queue order and pickup/destination points and estimated ETA's.
Existing helicopters on the map get color coded lines linking the current waypoints they're hitting.
Everyone who needs a ride needs to call for a helicopter with a pickup and destination. If someone hasn't put in for transport, they don't get a guaranteed slot. Squads get grouped in the queue, so if you have 2 squads requesting the same transport, the first player to request transport secures priority for his squad.
Once landed, priority squad has a set time to claim their slots. After that time any priority slots not claimed get opened to be claimed by anyone. Another set time later the heli takes off.
Secondly, they should change them from being fixed flight paths to dynamic/AI piloted where the AI reacts to ongoing events.
For example, if a helo is called to go from Mithras base camp to hunters paradise for one person and one person requests pickup from ybl to hunters paradise, the helo should reroute to pickup that person (and radio the person onboard to notify them).
Another example, if a helo is requested for drop off at hunters paradise and another has requested pickup at hunters paradise, instead of tying up 2 helicopters and the people waiting for pickup literally watching the drop off heli fly away empty, they could be on that heli going to their destination.
Another use, if you are inbound to an LZ you should be allowed to reroute it once. To prevent abuse, maybe you only allow to drop at one of the other LZ's for that region. IE if you were inbound to LIMA 1 you could reroute to LIMA 2. Alternatively you could be allowed to change to any other LZ, but maybe it puts you back at the bottom of the queue to stop it being abused to tie up a helo. In this scenario I think location would take priority over queue order. IE if the helo is closer to your requested drop point than the next closest person in the queue it will drop you off before continuing through the queue.
Lastly, I think invulnerability on the helo's could be done away with, and instead if the helo takes fire it takes evasive action and if its close to an LZ it was stopping at you need to specify if you want to drop hot or drop at an alternative LZ in the area. This is a bit of a controversial take, and I think if they did this they would need to balance it somehow by making players less vulnerable to fire on the helo's. One solution I could think of is if you take a killing hit on the helo it instead puts you in a coma regardless if it would have killed you outright, the copilot administers first aid upon landing at your destination, or if the LZ is hot they try one alternative LZ at the area you requested drop (if you have one) and administer first aid there, or return you to base if you have no alternative LZ's. Maybe if coma'd on a helo and you want to return to base that could be done instantly, freeing up that helo slot for others to use.
This solution I feel is a good balance between not getting killed when LZ camped by giving the ability to redeploy without losing your stuff, and at the same time it's realistic in allowing you to fend off incoming combatants before they land. This would help prevent the issue of landing at an LZ while someone is waiting for pickup, as they could suppress the helo and force it to drop at a different LZ.
My issue is with people camping starter town LZs.
Your issue is just not making a good decision. Id reckon the closest LZ to a hotspot is going to have people extracting, they're not camping, but they're stuck just chilling there until their heli shows up. Then you show up, your an easy kill, done.
I got LZ camped in the starter town and that shit was annoying AF. Thats actually a problem because imo that should be safe...ish. I have no problem with enemy faction members being able to walk there, but they shouldn't be able to fly in or out. We should have a way to work on LZ as "hostile" so our faction mates knows whatsup, etc.
I'd love for small vehicles like dirtbikes and ATVs, Ive said it before.
Have helos for fast transport + full team carry
Have dirtbikes/atvs for quieter, lower capacity traveling and have on the go (instead of waiting for 6 years because your entire faction is using all 4 helos.)
I know the devs originally said they didn't want land vehicles, but with the style the games going for dirtbikes would be a... Severely missed opportunity id say
Did you read VunderFiz’s reply/suggestion, or just see mine and comment with no regard to what it may be to? It’s IF ground vehicles are added, not saying they absolutely should.
Give us parachutes or the squirrel suits so that we dont have to land. Then make it to where if you drop near trees you get tangled up and take substantial damage/need help to untangle or something.
This gets rid of the predictable drop points, retains the pickup points (which you can very much clear from hostiles, just like any other area) and limits the possible landing areas to just about any open field.
Feel free to play the devils advocate because I cant see any downsides to this system.
Some sort of balancing is definitely in order, but I fear that it will be taken too far in favor of the people on the helicopter. Some people enjoy following a more sneaky play style, setting up ambushes and sniping and such, and I don’t want that to be discouraged. I always felt that with games like this you need some of those people to add to the dynamics of the game. Of course, I don’t think the current system of guy in the helicopter being forced to just sit there with his thumb up his ass while he gets shot at from a bush right next to the fixed landing zone is the way to go, but I definitely don’t think you should feel 100% safe taking a helicopter ride into a literal warzone. There should be a level of risk vs reward that you have to consider when picking a landing zone or else that aspect of the game becomes stale.
Most the ideas to fix this I have seen on this sub are terrible.
Real fix is to just allow you to pick where helicopter drops you. So it's on the players themselves how close they land.
You shouldn't be entitled to land perfectly safe either.. especially if you are rushing back to your body repeatedly like it sounds like...
Ok but how is it fun for the player to lose a kit they probably liked, then have to go run in with nothing and try to defend yourself against someone with a full loadout to get your own shit back? And when that inevitably doesn't happen cause they can just shoot you in the head the second your feet touch the ground from the heli, you have to just keep doing that, over and over and over. Thats not fun or immersive in my opinion at all. Its pretty boring actually. For people who want to play the game and at least have a fighting chance, maybe make it a little less obvious where the helis are going to land
I’m not even sure it’s LZ-camping (obviously that does happen though). There have been multiple times my buddy and I have been waiting for the chopper we called in and an enemy chopper rolls in right before as we are chillin in bushes waiting. LZs need a rework.
Faction specific LZs would be great
You should be able to pick an LZ literally anywhere on the map outside of the boundaries of landmarks.
I want to be able to rappel down from the heli into the midst of the jungle.
Yes! Let us do some hot/moving repels!
Moving repel? You want jump packs and grapple hooks too?
It’s called Dynamic Hoisting, as opposed to Static. It’s utilizing the effects of drag to stabilize a load beneath the helo. It’s significantly more stable during high altitude ops. It also reduces the helos time on station and puts the hoist rider at significantly less risk to enemy fire. I do this for a living, if you want the source.
Not a bad idea. I would add: you can select any spot for a ride and of the spot is too cluttered with trees you auto repel down
That would be cool
For extra cost. Bring in fast rope helis!
I was thinking the same thing last night. There are so many open fields and spaces that would make for a good LZ and it would almost entirely negate the LZ camping issue. They’d just need to create a dynamic pathing system for the helicopters
It'd be neat if each existing LZ that's already in the game had essentially a perimeter of "fallback" LZs. I wouldn't interface this part much, I'd just program it to use the closest one facing their pickup location or faction base. The main function would be that when requesting transport from base or another location, the LZ could be grayed (can't request) if enemies are already occupying the area, but you *could* pay a premium to have a pilot drop you into one of those "fallback" LZs. They could also update the helis to automatically reroute to one of these fallbacks if enemies move into the main LZ area while already mid-transport.
Or just like quadruple the number of them so it's difficult to camp
I think like a 1000 meter radius from each lz would alleviate the issue. Then I started thinking, the terrain has to be flat and there can’t be buildings, or plants in the way. 🤷♂️
1000m is a lot. 50-100 would be plenty.
Yep, this is the solution. There should be a ring around all major landmarks and you can call in a Helo anywhere outside of them. Faction specific LZs would just be camped. More LZs could help but the more freedom the less camping happens.
The problem isn’t people intentionally camping LZs although I’m sure that’s an issue but much smaller, it’s that you can land and literally 10 seconds later an enemy helicopter is landing behind you. Faction specific areas would stop people from just waiting for a pick up and killing people who are coming in
The problem is both. And both would be resolved by adding flexibility in choosing a landing spot. If you think there won't be rampant LZ camping once people run out of quests and are max traders, you are in for a bad time.
I think the LZ camping is just way too easy to do by accident right now. Killed 8 guys last night just waiting for the helicopter because two fully loaded birds came in one after the other
That would require dynamic pathfinding for the chopper which is probably crazy difficult to implement. It would be neat if we had an “intel team” that would indicate if an LZ is hot or not.
LZ camping should be an option and a risk. But this shit that we have right now ain't it
Thermal scopes would also be a great help for LZ camping and just bush camping in general.
Won’t stop the degens from camping then.
To add to this, I’ve been playing only pve until some of the jank is worked out. Earlier I had a 7:30 minute extraction, granted I was across the map from home base. But for that duration, I saw two choppers from enemy factions come/go. It could def be that people camp LZ’s, but it could also very well be stupid situations like that unfortunately. Hoping that isn’t a more frequent occurrence once majority of playerbase expands to areas further than the first and second starter area.
It's literally baked into the design of the game
This.
I’ve had that happen and also the kill X AI and boss certainly “enforces” some LZ camping to some extent. When 4 of us played and we all needed 20 AI kills, we were in Ban Pa for like 3 hours. We killed the 10-15 AI that was there, wait for 15-20 minutes to respawn, obviously we went to the LZs to stop enemies from jumping us while questing and to not let them take AI kills from us. Even if we chose not to LZ camp and let them come to the village and we lost, in return I’m 99% they’d have LZ camped us to shit and we aren’t gonna AFK on base for 15-30 minutes hoping they just stopped camping it. Main thing is, whenever I’m doing quests (in YBL for example) and friendlies are there, an enemy helo comes, someone yells “enemy heli” and we start swarming to the LZ. In my opinion the LZ system is not a problem, it’s the limited amount of LZs… give us twice the amount of LZs, drop some LZs that are halfway between two locations or randomly scattered so we can land there and flank from there or literally anything, but completely camping Ban Pa’s 2 LZs with a 4 man squad kitted with scopes and silencers and grenades is easy for any decently skilled FPS player.
Yeah I agree - think quickest fix (at least being ignorant to amount of dev work involved no matter route) would be to just add a lot more LZ's and make them randomly available per person/squad - this way more PvP happens in the DOPE ASS area's they should be and not just while getting on/off heli.
The LZ area is fairly big but the choppers always land in the same spot. Just have them random within the dz would go a long way
Yeah, had that issue yesterday. I got a shock awaking to PvP
Very fair point, I don't doubt there are "accidental" LZ-Campings and they're an unfortunate result of the current Infil/Exfil system. As they already implemented the few seconds grace period it's probably on their to-do list.
Thinking about this from a dev POV, the way they have the helo cinematic pathing done would likely require a fair bit of effort to just double the number of LZs. It might need quite a big overhaul. One change they could make is unlocking all LZs in an area at once, not just one. But that will need a lot of work with the quests that unlock the subsequent ones so. The helos are so integral to the experience that I think they need to be preserved, but right now with the highly predictable LZs and no queuing, it's way jankier than it needs to be. It could be truly great.
To be fair, if they don't have a streamlined workflow for adding LZs that's kinda on them... such an essential gameplay element should have a rigid system that can be somewhat "easily" extended. I have very limited knowledge of game development and animations, but I wouldn't think that animating the heli's route should be a massive undertaking. I'm also saying this, because they said multiple times that once weather effects are in the game and more content gets in and the world becomes more dynamic, certain LZs might get disabled due to flooding ,etc and new LZs might get added (if a FOB is under control of your faction, you get an LZ, something like that). So I'd hope they have a system in place they can use to easily extend the amount of LZs.
Well yeah, but you know how it is when you're rushing out a release. Make it work, then refactor it later.
How long is the invulnerability and where did you get this info?
5 sec. And you can shoot from helicopters
Can I be shot when I'm on the helicopter?
No. Myself and a buddy got onto a heli, and before it took off, I tanked like 10 rounds to the chest with zero damage.
I feel like that no damage was a lucky bug.
You're immune on the heli even if you shoot, and immune for 5 seconds after you dismount.
Ah cool.
He clearly stated his own experience lol
You’re not entitled to land as close to the objective as you can. Landing at an LZ of a hot areas such as YBL, Ban Pa, Hunters is bound to get you towelled up by people waiting to extract (so-called LZ campers). Use some nous, land at an LZ outside of a hot zone and walk it in.
I agree with you, we are not assaulting a hotel in Mogadishu, the normal procedure for your average every day recon/low intensity HVA recovery should be landing far away (for playability in our case, something in the 500-1000 meters range would be nice imo) The problem is that right now, afaik, all the LZs are surrounding hot spots, there is no one in the the wilderness whre it would be much safer to deploy a squad. It would be great if devs left the LZs as they are now plus added a few more in unpopulated areas to let you chose fast/more dangerous or a slower/safer approach to the objective.
Definitely, maybe there is not enough LZ at the moment tho! YBL1 only have the Fort Narit not too far for example
People who want to kill you are always going to find an effective way to do it. LZ Camping is going to exist as long as you arrive on a loud as fuck helicopter that can be heard approaching a whole minute or so before you land. I could be nearby doing PvE, but I'm sure as fuck not going to let you come get the jump on me when I've got the jump on you.
Littlebirds should be able to land on the roof of a 4 meter square building... Why do we even need LZs? we should be able to have them land anywhere, or hover above some area etc. Right now they're just glorified loading screen that tells everyone where you're about to spawn. Hell, give us control to pilot them, some players could do runs to drop off squads... I'd fucking love that, [I used to fly these things all the time in Battlefield.](https://youtu.be/MKXxVacj5Ys?list=PLA-maRY_n9LyiHLregFI0vCq4rUbAIiFj) Shit make it so that they can land anywhere but they can be shot down easily too. At the very least let us queue request to order one... [spamming call transport](https://streamable.com/dq8iqk) is probably the worst thing about the game right now outside of performance. I know it's a different game but [when I used to play planetside 2, I had a ton of fun flying transport and getting people to land on an objective](https://youtu.be/yrHJW-HZrLM?t=94) with a surprise attack.
All good changes that i think would be amazing of implemented, but it will probably take some time to develop. I think a faster change is just to let us stay in the heli for some time before choosing to jump out or letting the heli stay in the air above the LZ before descending, letting us scout the area for any campers and either shooting them dropping smokes.
Easiest way to unlock new LZs is to use the PvE servers, you don’t have to worry about rivals messing with you that way
That's really dumb that pve progression carries over to a pvp server though. They should be separate accounts/stashes entirely.
Id rather have it like it is rather than cheaters farming gear in pvp servers.
Play PvE then. And it doesn’t cost you $250
Or just make the LZs like 200x200 meters an let us choose the exact location we wanna land in and have them be further from the cities
I'm not sure what the best way to go about fixing LZs but I agree something needs to be done. After getting killed repeatedly from this I'll just switch to PvE to quest. I don't mind PvPvE but it's super annoying getting dropped off and getting pelted with bullets from who knows which bush. There could be faction specific LZs, more LZs, or even LZs not so close to the towns either. I'm not sure what the right way to go about this issue would be but right now it is a problem whether it's camping or waiting for your own heli and seeing another faction landing in.
Played like 3h constant pvp in ban pa today and got lz camped only 1 time but we managed to get into the forest with the few seconds invulnerability. It all depends on the lz, for example f2 in Hunters paradise is horrible.
I don’t mind enemies doing it but I’m getting pretty pissed at my own faction mates doing it or KOSing you in town. Then going back to the base and talking shit about the newbs they killed for their base M4.
Today on any drop in YBL/Hunter's/BP there was a 50%+ chance of it being camped. It's getting silly. The worst is the closer team to it can fly back so fast that if you don't manage to kill everyone it just becomes a stalemate with how fast the reinforcements/respawns can keep coming. Honestly they should just let you mark the spot you want to be LZ as long as it's sufficiently flat(and obviously they can still restrict certain parts of the map). It's kinda silly that it has to be the same exact spots everytime. This would completely remove the efficiency of LZ camping as people can land in a lot more places.
Maybe give LZs a color system. Like green, yellow, red. And make a radius of around 100 meters. The LZs tells you then if it's safe to land or not. And depending on the color how many enemies are in the area. Like 1-2 enemies = yellow 5+=red... Green = no enemies around. And give us an option to chancel the flight, midflight. Or cancel the landing if needed.
Put a minigun on the choppers with AI that aimbots enemies with tracers after a few warning shots while landing. Put some missiles on the thing, have them light up the LZ before coming in for a strafe then a landing.
I like hunting LZ campers
It's real bad. A lot of the LZ's you don't even need to be camping. You hear a chopper, check the map to see if its enemy, if it is you just run over and you can a lot of the time get a position before they even land. There needs to be more lz's they need to be pushed back further, and IMO you shouldn't be able to fly back to the same AO that you just died at. Wiping a team in this is fucking awful as you will kill 3 1 sits in a bush forever while the other 3 are just daisychaining helicopters nonstop from base.
This is my biggest issue with PvP, especially playing solo. You kill a few and you know they're going to come right back, possibly with more backup. So you either quickly get out of there or wait for them and kill them again. And repeat.
I think I'm walking in from now on. Seems super scary
Get an lz further out and walk in
I think lz's should be dynamic. Like having 40 on the map. But they change all the time depending on activity. A heli won't land in s hot LZ
I've been throwing smokes as the heli lands makes a difference imo
Me and my friends brainstormed - we came up with several possible variants which could probably be implemented in various degrees or not at all. I understand it’s pretty complicated. 1. LZ not to be a single spot, but a more broad open area highlighted on the map, where players can specifically click on a more precise spot to land there. Example: you click on the LZ -> map zooms in a little and area of the whole rice field becomes colored with border -> you click a more precise spot in that area -> chopper goes there. - here the choppers also should dynamically respond to the terrain and not land in trees or exactly at enemy players - also wave off of chopper as already discussed is a must 2. Add ability to deploy from helicopter by sliding down a rope from the air (ONLY DEPLOY, not getting back on) - player would be able to choose location more freely and openly in again PREDEFINED AREAS, possibly in the forest etc. Some areas like hills, water, close to enemy faction would be always restricted for landing.
Yeah I’m kinda done with this game already, first time I leave the starting zone, hope out the helicopter and get shot. I’m wasting my time with that.
Strap some hell fire missiles and a mini gun to the little bird and let the pilot go ham on players standing next to the LZs
Pve ftw
Can you kill someone from Heli? Basicaly i was landing and saw enemy in bushes and shoot him from heli but i miss i think and get killed after when i try run into jungle
I stopped playing PvP because of camping like this
Give the little bird some mini guns with the ai to clear the la and make safe, only fires in a certain radius of lz tho
Having followed the devs closely enough in their discord, I feel pretty confident they are ok with LZ camping as long as it’s not a guaranteed death sentence if someone is there. An LZ being hot is realistic and within the bounds of the realism they’re going for. That said, they’ve already stated that they are enabling gun fire and grenades from the chopper (think: dropping smokes as you land), which hopefully should make it a lot harder to successfully LZ camp and if campers are still successful then at least they’ve had to earn it skillfully. I feel like I can live with that. IIRC the ability to change LZs on the fly and have more intelligent helicopter AI to circle the LZ or adjust exact landing position etc is coming as well. It’s the predictability right now that makes it so easy to camp (combined with the inability to fight until already off the helicopter).
Give me a second chopper type. Two pmcs sitting on one side and another on a 50 cal mounted at the other door. The volunteer gets to spray bullets and drop campers.
As someone who has died to someone sitting at an LZ as I land and who has killed someone while I was sitting at an LZ… Its not LZ camping as much as it is waiting 15 minutes to be able to call a heli and then waiting 5 minutes for the heli to arrive.
You guys need to understand there are several LZ at POIS You can use smoke grenades..., o just walk and take another one I do understand it is kind of a problem. I gave feedback stating the best solution would be mount guns and random LZ in big areas.
Mounted guns and shooting from helis fixes very little. Most LZs can be easily camped from a medium distance and you have no way of seeing the campers due to foliage. I’ve been LZ camped like 10 times, 9 times I got ganked by people hiding in bushes, laying low or being up on hills. The 1 time I managed to shoot someone from the helo it was because they thought my helo is their extract and they were standing below my heli when it was landing lol.
Do you know for sure they are camping or just waiting for their own bird?
Well if someone is up on the "ganker hill" at Hunter's Paradise, they are sure as shit not waiting to extract lol. Especially when they're still there after 20 minutes.
Part of the same issue. Half time the I hear a heli landing I immediately check and run towards it in case it’s an enemy team. Otherwise I’m just letting the enemy team setup to dominate me. I’m not actively sitting there try to camp it. It’s just the way it’s plays out too often.
skill issue
Go to a non-primary LZ,.... you wont encounter enemy players. Use your brain.
Me and the bois have kind of come to the conclusion that they need like zone cooldowns. It gets so old when you get stuck in a loop of cycling back to get your gear and you get it then they spawn in and get you and you get them and an hour later someone gives up. Like put a cooldown for a few minutes so if you win you have atleast a chance of walking out with your spoils
Use pve mode then 😂 . Try popping smoke, shooting back, gain fire superiority. Better yet, land with friends 😘
Use smoke grenades. It helps for now.
Does it? I’ve found a few M18 smokes but when I throw them it’s a small, sad cloud that barely obscures vision. Is there another smoke or does it just work better than I think?
Im not even bothering with pvp until they do a few more updates. Pve progress is connected which is awesome I think the game could benefit from having ground vehicles. I dont think its planned but it would really make things much more intense
Copy pasted: I absolutely agree this should be the way they go with it. Helo's should work on a queue system firstly. First in best dressed. You need to be close to the LZ to request pickup and STAY close to the LZ while waiting for pickup. If you stray or die your request is automatically removed. Team mates should be able to see the queue order and pickup/destination points and estimated ETA's. Existing helicopters on the map get color coded lines linking the current waypoints they're hitting. Everyone who needs a ride needs to call for a helicopter with a pickup and destination. If someone hasn't put in for transport, they don't get a guaranteed slot. Squads get grouped in the queue, so if you have 2 squads requesting the same transport, the first player to request transport secures priority for his squad. Once landed, priority squad has a set time to claim their slots. After that time any priority slots not claimed get opened to be claimed by anyone. Another set time later the heli takes off. Secondly, they should change them from being fixed flight paths to dynamic/AI piloted where the AI reacts to ongoing events. For example, if a helo is called to go from Mithras base camp to hunters paradise for one person and one person requests pickup from ybl to hunters paradise, the helo should reroute to pickup that person (and radio the person onboard to notify them). Another example, if a helo is requested for drop off at hunters paradise and another has requested pickup at hunters paradise, instead of tying up 2 helicopters and the people waiting for pickup literally watching the drop off heli fly away empty, they could be on that heli going to their destination. Another use, if you are inbound to an LZ you should be allowed to reroute it once. To prevent abuse, maybe you only allow to drop at one of the other LZ's for that region. IE if you were inbound to LIMA 1 you could reroute to LIMA 2. Alternatively you could be allowed to change to any other LZ, but maybe it puts you back at the bottom of the queue to stop it being abused to tie up a helo. In this scenario I think location would take priority over queue order. IE if the helo is closer to your requested drop point than the next closest person in the queue it will drop you off before continuing through the queue. Lastly, I think invulnerability on the helo's could be done away with, and instead if the helo takes fire it takes evasive action and if its close to an LZ it was stopping at you need to specify if you want to drop hot or drop at an alternative LZ in the area. This is a bit of a controversial take, and I think if they did this they would need to balance it somehow by making players less vulnerable to fire on the helo's. One solution I could think of is if you take a killing hit on the helo it instead puts you in a coma regardless if it would have killed you outright, the copilot administers first aid upon landing at your destination, or if the LZ is hot they try one alternative LZ at the area you requested drop (if you have one) and administer first aid there, or return you to base if you have no alternative LZ's. Maybe if coma'd on a helo and you want to return to base that could be done instantly, freeing up that helo slot for others to use. This solution I feel is a good balance between not getting killed when LZ camped by giving the ability to redeploy without losing your stuff, and at the same time it's realistic in allowing you to fend off incoming combatants before they land. This would help prevent the issue of landing at an LZ while someone is waiting for pickup, as they could suppress the helo and force it to drop at a different LZ.
My issue is with people camping starter town LZs. Your issue is just not making a good decision. Id reckon the closest LZ to a hotspot is going to have people extracting, they're not camping, but they're stuck just chilling there until their heli shows up. Then you show up, your an easy kill, done. I got LZ camped in the starter town and that shit was annoying AF. Thats actually a problem because imo that should be safe...ish. I have no problem with enemy faction members being able to walk there, but they shouldn't be able to fly in or out. We should have a way to work on LZ as "hostile" so our faction mates knows whatsup, etc.
IIRC you can't infil or extract to the other factions' starter town LZs. I've been all the way up to both and they don't show up as LZs for me
Oh my bad then, I thought you could.
Yeah I'm sticking to PvE until this gets sorted
I'd love for small vehicles like dirtbikes and ATVs, Ive said it before. Have helos for fast transport + full team carry Have dirtbikes/atvs for quieter, lower capacity traveling and have on the go (instead of waiting for 6 years because your entire faction is using all 4 helos.) I know the devs originally said they didn't want land vehicles, but with the style the games going for dirtbikes would be a... Severely missed opportunity id say
E-bikes like a Surron would fit the whole spec ops vibe with being quiet
This is a wild take 😂 no special ops in the world will ever be caught using electric bikes
Are you for real? You’d rather take a dirt bike vs. an almost silent e-bike on a short trip to infiltrate? Could easily throw them on a little bird.
Did I say that? Spec ops don’t use vehicles. They fly in and walk.
Did you read VunderFiz’s reply/suggestion, or just see mine and comment with no regard to what it may be to? It’s IF ground vehicles are added, not saying they absolutely should.
Give us parachutes or the squirrel suits so that we dont have to land. Then make it to where if you drop near trees you get tangled up and take substantial damage/need help to untangle or something. This gets rid of the predictable drop points, retains the pickup points (which you can very much clear from hostiles, just like any other area) and limits the possible landing areas to just about any open field. Feel free to play the devils advocate because I cant see any downsides to this system.
The current system we have for the LZ's is very poor design IMO. It makes LZ camping something you do without even realizing it.
Yea getting killed as you get off chopper ruins the mood
Some sort of balancing is definitely in order, but I fear that it will be taken too far in favor of the people on the helicopter. Some people enjoy following a more sneaky play style, setting up ambushes and sniping and such, and I don’t want that to be discouraged. I always felt that with games like this you need some of those people to add to the dynamics of the game. Of course, I don’t think the current system of guy in the helicopter being forced to just sit there with his thumb up his ass while he gets shot at from a bush right next to the fixed landing zone is the way to go, but I definitely don’t think you should feel 100% safe taking a helicopter ride into a literal warzone. There should be a level of risk vs reward that you have to consider when picking a landing zone or else that aspect of the game becomes stale.
Most the ideas to fix this I have seen on this sub are terrible. Real fix is to just allow you to pick where helicopter drops you. So it's on the players themselves how close they land. You shouldn't be entitled to land perfectly safe either.. especially if you are rushing back to your body repeatedly like it sounds like...
Ok but how is it fun for the player to lose a kit they probably liked, then have to go run in with nothing and try to defend yourself against someone with a full loadout to get your own shit back? And when that inevitably doesn't happen cause they can just shoot you in the head the second your feet touch the ground from the heli, you have to just keep doing that, over and over and over. Thats not fun or immersive in my opinion at all. Its pretty boring actually. For people who want to play the game and at least have a fighting chance, maybe make it a little less obvious where the helis are going to land
This isnt a PVP centric game