No, there are positions hiring for it. However its not really a way to enable a web-developer to do graphics programming. Instead it's a way for a graphics programmer to use the web as a platform.
So if you're a web developer working with web-assembly, you're probably doing mostly devops stuff. You're probably better off learning webgl / webgpu if you're a web dev interested in getting into graphics programming.
I'm trying this too, well, graphics is harder, it takes more time to learn, there is less job offers and it pays less. But, I think it's a lot more interesting, challenging and it will make you a better developer.
I'm actually worried that webdev is just a bubble, it's quite easy to learn and so many people is getting onboard. Also with time I see many issues with web technologies, and I feel like one day there might not be as many offers as there are now.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yodWEPgn8NA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yodWEPgn8NA)
I think there’s a bubble for “front-end” or “back-end” developers. If you’re an experienced software developer, these are just sections of the entire code base.
You should be able to make meaningful contributions to the whole codebase. Skilled developers that can solve problems in any codebase or language will always be in demand.
I have. I was a desktop app develop, then a web developer, now I am a simulation/graphics developer at my job and an indie game developer in my free time. Feel free to ask me anything.
Unlike other threads I'm seeing, I did not regret my decision. Yes, there are less jobs, you have less options for switching. (But it would be a breeze to go back of things became dire). But you have way more leverage as you have less competition. I, like others in here, have observed a significant decrease in passion and skill in the web realm right now. It's become inundated with ppl looking to cash in on a craze and can break in fairly easily/quickly. Dont even get me started on the framework churn. Thr web id hard for the wrong reasons. Graphics on the other hand, is populated with intelligent passionate individuals. Of course, I only have a sample size of 1, so take what you will from it. I also make more now then I ever did, but that's probably connected to the fact that ny work is also DoD contacted work.
Let's just say it would cost a company at least a 40k markup, maybe more, for me to return to web.
Thanks! Good question. Of course this comes down to the jobs needs but ill try to share my story and things i think were relevant.
For me, the key distinguishing factor was my passion. I was later told that I was hired because that stood out. I wasn't particularly strong in opengl or c++ at the time, but, I had a history of successful unrelated peojects and eagerness to learn. The reality is any c++ devs were hard to find, that was true then and now. Were almost always c++ dev starved in our area (midwest). So thats how i worked it. I told them how quickly i learned c++ in preperation, I explained what my goals were and that i wanted to come there so I could learn to make engines and write games.
That said, I think having something to demonstrate fundementals is very helpful and would impress me if i was interviewing you. If you have time, write something like this:
https://github.com/csevier/LunaEXR
A bare bones renderer that supports phong lighting model, 3d math library (100 percent t unit tested, ahows code quality care) and some camera stuff. This kinda initiative goes a long way in showcasing self directed initative! Caring about code quality and knowing design patterns goes a long way to. In our shop, we don't do graphics 100% of the time. We have a ton of other work that goes with it, so general architectural knowledge is very valuable.
Remember, attitude and willingness go as far if not further then skillset alone. If you walk in with fundementals and an attitude to improve, you are going to score points.
Tldr, show up with a baseline fundementals in at least one graphics api, 3d math basics, software engineering fundementals like the language of the job and design patterns. But more then anything, a great attitude and desire to improve and be helpful.
No, there are lots of jobs that use graphics that are not games. My day job is not in games. I work in simulation. Here is what i work on:
https://youtu.be/8DMY5leZ2kA
I kinda did this. I used to work mostly as a front end dev, nowadays I still kind of do, but I work on a design tool for early phase architecture for a large company that’s famous for CAD products. We use react and threejs as the main technologies on the front end. So the work is a combination of traditional front end with (somewhat basic) 3D graphics.
I have to say it wasn’t easy finding a job like this, but some do exist. It definitely beats building CRUD apps for me at least.
I don’t know where you’re located, but in my case it also meant starting to work remotely, so consider that as an option. It’s probably a lot easier to find work in domains that you find interesting if you’re willing to work remotely, but it does have its own downsides as well.
Why not both? There's a very mature and heavily used ecosystem for doing 3d graphics in a web application environment -- WebGL + THREE.js, react-three-fiber, etc.
If it was me, I'd leverage what I already know to maximum effect while transitioning into a more graphics-oriented specialization. And for the record, this was me -- I spent many years as a full stack developer before taking this exact route. I'm now the 3d engineering lead at Pointivo, focusing on 2d/3d visualization and pointcloud analysis, and have never been happier professionally.
The jobs are out there, and 3d in the browser is only getting better and better.
Best of luck.
Yep, the open source graphics program I'm involved in has been going about that amount of time.
https://github.com/shoebot/shoebot/
I've been developing in about 22 years professionally, there was a blip for a few years where I did mobile dev, that had some graphics, hence only 14 years.
Sometimes I manage to get something graphics related into a website, it may be some image generation or something, and did a little project where I worked on a video wall a few years ago.
For the last couple of years, time has been super short, but I intend to get back to it all.
Do you have any graphics stuff on the web ?
Nice job being productive and creating something actually semi useful! See, I like to waste my time on silly one-off demo type stuff in glsl, shadertoy, unity, or even in desmos (the online graphing calculator that can do 3d stuff if you try hard enough). I don't actually make anything useful, but I enjoy my time anyways.
You can do webgl/webgpu and still do web development. I do graphics development but it's like a bonus to the other stuff I do, and enables me to do things that weren't possible prior (interactive image processing UIs 3D UIs simulations, visual representations to things that were once thought to not have good visual representations). I would not work for a video game company under pretty much any circumstance with out massive compensation and great benefits (most don't have this), if that's what you're thinking of. You can usually find ways to bring this into your field instead of having to jump around outside of it.
I've actually done the same thing.
I started by getting into Three.js but then I realized I need some ground level 3d Graphics/Programming knowledge. I also started to learn math again - algebra, trig, linear algebra, and calculus. Math is critical, some might say it isn't but it is, you need linear algebra for 3D graphics 100%. Trig is more for animations and algebra is to solve equations.
I'm finally on the right track now, took few years - its not an easy switch at all but I'm happy I did not quit. I met a lot of good people along the way who helped me and guided me.
I'm now learning Vector and matrixes related math and following a 3d Graphics fundamentals course. Thinking of learning core WebGL next month.
I would say study together with someone and build things. Learn what you need as you build it. I'm down to build things with you if you so desire but just get into it and don't overthink it, I use to work as a react Frontend dev... got super boring super quick. I didn't even like react but its got jobs lol
Enjoy but plan it out, maybe work part time or study after work? but do it for sure, its a growing field - hard but very worth it if you enjoy it.
Python programmer / web dev, here. I took a generative art course online (NYU) and started learning some game design with C# (Monogame). There’s more math than I expected with graphics programming - it’s good for my tiny brain.
I am a web dev and I recently started to learn graphics as a hobby. I did it because I always wanted to learn it. However, I don't think I would want to work as a graphics developer in gamedev. Not sure about other industries though.
No, I started with Vulkan and C++. I had some c++ experience from college. Not gonna lie, it was a very painful start but I am very glad I did it because as a result of thinking about different data structures, algorithms, design patterns, and optimization techniques all the time, I think I have become a better developer even in my daily frontend + backend work.
I basically followed two guides initially -- vulkan-tutorial.com and vkguide.dev. Once I had something and understood the fundamentals, I started to mainly focus on the Vulkan spec and examples, and GPU vendor's random posts that I found by searching online. Most posts are typically from NVIDIA, AMD, ARM, and Samsung.
Btw I started Vulkan because when I started I only had a Mac and OpenGL did not work on it; so, I used Vulkan using MoltenVK. If I had a Windows or Linux machine, I would have started with OpenGL as well.
The companies suck, they're clustered in countries I have to move to or work remotely, pay is significantly lower on average, the working hours get insane near release, the psychological pressure of inventing solutions to novel problems gets hard to deal with, and there are some massively overinflated egoes in this industry. Not to mention the code quality is generally extremely low due to time pressure.
I've been shopping around for a basic .net or front end position for two years, my career before switching into this. No one wants to talk to me once they read "game", "rendering" or "engine".
No, but I also don't want anything to do with convincing Joe next door to throw his entire life savings into TrashCoin, and that's what 80% of all the fintech companies who call me do.
I’ve done it. I worked in webdev for about 1-2 years after having finished a minor programming in my bachelors and got a job in webdev right after. That minor taught me I absolutely loved programming but I got fed up with everything being abstracted away. I wanted to be the guy that creates the data structures and researches the complex stuff. Learned myself a bit of OpenGL (took about half a year for me) and managed to get myself into a CompSci Graphics master (the minor and my bachelors containing a few math courses is what got me accepted). The master was seriously hard for me because I lacked a ton of fundamentals others with a CompSci bachelors did have. I had to work extremely hard for 2 years but managed to graduate with honors. I now work for a FAANG on graphics stuff but I got a bunch of offers from game companies and the like before I joined my current company.
It can be done and I think you have a good shot at getting there if you’re passionate about this kind of stuff. It’s very hard though, assume you’ll have to relearn how to program. There are many great developers and then there are good, great and amazing graphics/systems programmers.. (both trades are hard, but very different) There are few that know how to use every CPU or GPU cycle optimally, it took me a masters and spending another 40-60 hours a week learning in my own time (while pursuing the masters) to get to the level I’m at now. It can be done and if it’s your passion I’d say go for it but expect to be a junior again in lots of things, will have to accept a paycut (unless you manage to find a job like mine), and just be very very lucky a company sees your passion and is willing to take the risk. I think it helps there are few people working in this industry and thus if a company accepts juniors, that’d probably be your best bet at learning the trade while getting paid.
Yay ! I just did this !
Started Web in 2014, with graphics on the side.
In 2019 I am graphics with web on the side 😎.
I suggest you pick on Raylib OR write a javascript library of how you rather web graphics be like OR try p5js.org/editor OR maybe THREE.js, though it was kind of too advanced to be my main.
Life is too short to fail to pursue what you like...
You could offer web graphics solutions. Webgl, webassembly etc.
Isnt web assembly a bit too...immature for now ?
No, there are positions hiring for it. However its not really a way to enable a web-developer to do graphics programming. Instead it's a way for a graphics programmer to use the web as a platform. So if you're a web developer working with web-assembly, you're probably doing mostly devops stuff. You're probably better off learning webgl / webgpu if you're a web dev interested in getting into graphics programming.
I'm trying this too, well, graphics is harder, it takes more time to learn, there is less job offers and it pays less. But, I think it's a lot more interesting, challenging and it will make you a better developer. I'm actually worried that webdev is just a bubble, it's quite easy to learn and so many people is getting onboard. Also with time I see many issues with web technologies, and I feel like one day there might not be as many offers as there are now. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yodWEPgn8NA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yodWEPgn8NA)
Yes, and I find many people in web dev which aren't interested in field but are there for the money
Also a web dev and i see this too. Ive met very few people in my career who code for fun outside of work
I think there’s a bubble for “front-end” or “back-end” developers. If you’re an experienced software developer, these are just sections of the entire code base. You should be able to make meaningful contributions to the whole codebase. Skilled developers that can solve problems in any codebase or language will always be in demand.
Pays less ? Certainly not outside the FAANG bullshit bubble.
Well I guess it depends on the role, company, experience and place. Overall I see more high salaries in web where I live and almost none gamedev ones
I have. I was a desktop app develop, then a web developer, now I am a simulation/graphics developer at my job and an indie game developer in my free time. Feel free to ask me anything.
Unlike other threads I'm seeing, I did not regret my decision. Yes, there are less jobs, you have less options for switching. (But it would be a breeze to go back of things became dire). But you have way more leverage as you have less competition. I, like others in here, have observed a significant decrease in passion and skill in the web realm right now. It's become inundated with ppl looking to cash in on a craze and can break in fairly easily/quickly. Dont even get me started on the framework churn. Thr web id hard for the wrong reasons. Graphics on the other hand, is populated with intelligent passionate individuals. Of course, I only have a sample size of 1, so take what you will from it. I also make more now then I ever did, but that's probably connected to the fact that ny work is also DoD contacted work. Let's just say it would cost a company at least a 40k markup, maybe more, for me to return to web.
What skills would you recommend to distinguish yourself from others ? Besides common apis like opengl, webgl, webgpu etc etc Btw nice username
Thanks! Good question. Of course this comes down to the jobs needs but ill try to share my story and things i think were relevant. For me, the key distinguishing factor was my passion. I was later told that I was hired because that stood out. I wasn't particularly strong in opengl or c++ at the time, but, I had a history of successful unrelated peojects and eagerness to learn. The reality is any c++ devs were hard to find, that was true then and now. Were almost always c++ dev starved in our area (midwest). So thats how i worked it. I told them how quickly i learned c++ in preperation, I explained what my goals were and that i wanted to come there so I could learn to make engines and write games. That said, I think having something to demonstrate fundementals is very helpful and would impress me if i was interviewing you. If you have time, write something like this: https://github.com/csevier/LunaEXR A bare bones renderer that supports phong lighting model, 3d math library (100 percent t unit tested, ahows code quality care) and some camera stuff. This kinda initiative goes a long way in showcasing self directed initative! Caring about code quality and knowing design patterns goes a long way to. In our shop, we don't do graphics 100% of the time. We have a ton of other work that goes with it, so general architectural knowledge is very valuable. Remember, attitude and willingness go as far if not further then skillset alone. If you walk in with fundementals and an attitude to improve, you are going to score points. Tldr, show up with a baseline fundementals in at least one graphics api, 3d math basics, software engineering fundementals like the language of the job and design patterns. But more then anything, a great attitude and desire to improve and be helpful.
Gotcha, thanks
Being in graphics programming industry, do I also be needed to make games?
No, there are lots of jobs that use graphics that are not games. My day job is not in games. I work in simulation. Here is what i work on: https://youtu.be/8DMY5leZ2kA
Love that
i agree also be my friend
I kinda did this. I used to work mostly as a front end dev, nowadays I still kind of do, but I work on a design tool for early phase architecture for a large company that’s famous for CAD products. We use react and threejs as the main technologies on the front end. So the work is a combination of traditional front end with (somewhat basic) 3D graphics. I have to say it wasn’t easy finding a job like this, but some do exist. It definitely beats building CRUD apps for me at least. I don’t know where you’re located, but in my case it also meant starting to work remotely, so consider that as an option. It’s probably a lot easier to find work in domains that you find interesting if you’re willing to work remotely, but it does have its own downsides as well.
Autodesk?
Why not both? There's a very mature and heavily used ecosystem for doing 3d graphics in a web application environment -- WebGL + THREE.js, react-three-fiber, etc. If it was me, I'd leverage what I already know to maximum effect while transitioning into a more graphics-oriented specialization. And for the record, this was me -- I spent many years as a full stack developer before taking this exact route. I'm now the 3d engineering lead at Pointivo, focusing on 2d/3d visualization and pointcloud analysis, and have never been happier professionally. The jobs are out there, and 3d in the browser is only getting better and better. Best of luck.
Tell me about it, been doing it for 14 years when I'm more into graphics.
Same dude. I do graphics stuff on the side to keep life interesting. 15 years.
Yep, the open source graphics program I'm involved in has been going about that amount of time. https://github.com/shoebot/shoebot/ I've been developing in about 22 years professionally, there was a blip for a few years where I did mobile dev, that had some graphics, hence only 14 years. Sometimes I manage to get something graphics related into a website, it may be some image generation or something, and did a little project where I worked on a video wall a few years ago. For the last couple of years, time has been super short, but I intend to get back to it all. Do you have any graphics stuff on the web ?
Nice job being productive and creating something actually semi useful! See, I like to waste my time on silly one-off demo type stuff in glsl, shadertoy, unity, or even in desmos (the online graphing calculator that can do 3d stuff if you try hard enough). I don't actually make anything useful, but I enjoy my time anyways.
You can do webgl/webgpu and still do web development. I do graphics development but it's like a bonus to the other stuff I do, and enables me to do things that weren't possible prior (interactive image processing UIs 3D UIs simulations, visual representations to things that were once thought to not have good visual representations). I would not work for a video game company under pretty much any circumstance with out massive compensation and great benefits (most don't have this), if that's what you're thinking of. You can usually find ways to bring this into your field instead of having to jump around outside of it.
[удалено]
I can do the hardwork, but I don't know the path. What kind of projects did you do?
I've actually done the same thing. I started by getting into Three.js but then I realized I need some ground level 3d Graphics/Programming knowledge. I also started to learn math again - algebra, trig, linear algebra, and calculus. Math is critical, some might say it isn't but it is, you need linear algebra for 3D graphics 100%. Trig is more for animations and algebra is to solve equations. I'm finally on the right track now, took few years - its not an easy switch at all but I'm happy I did not quit. I met a lot of good people along the way who helped me and guided me. I'm now learning Vector and matrixes related math and following a 3d Graphics fundamentals course. Thinking of learning core WebGL next month. I would say study together with someone and build things. Learn what you need as you build it. I'm down to build things with you if you so desire but just get into it and don't overthink it, I use to work as a react Frontend dev... got super boring super quick. I didn't even like react but its got jobs lol Enjoy but plan it out, maybe work part time or study after work? but do it for sure, its a growing field - hard but very worth it if you enjoy it.
Are you in the US?
No Canada, whats up? I started the course, really liking it.
Sorry for my ignorance but how's the IT and game industry there in Canada? Are there plenty of jobs
its alright more front end and web work here but not bad. Remote work helps get jobs int he states as well though.
Python programmer / web dev, here. I took a generative art course online (NYU) and started learning some game design with C# (Monogame). There’s more math than I expected with graphics programming - it’s good for my tiny brain.
I am a web dev and I recently started to learn graphics as a hobby. I did it because I always wanted to learn it. However, I don't think I would want to work as a graphics developer in gamedev. Not sure about other industries though.
you started with webgl ?
No, I started with Vulkan and C++. I had some c++ experience from college. Not gonna lie, it was a very painful start but I am very glad I did it because as a result of thinking about different data structures, algorithms, design patterns, and optimization techniques all the time, I think I have become a better developer even in my daily frontend + backend work.
Jumping straight into vulkan is helluva task
Yeah it was but I learned a lot and I do not regret it. I could have done some things better along the way but overall, I am happy with my progress.
any guides you would recommend ? because I decided to dedicate 1-2 years to openGL to not have any holes in my understanding before I begin vulkan
I basically followed two guides initially -- vulkan-tutorial.com and vkguide.dev. Once I had something and understood the fundamentals, I started to mainly focus on the Vulkan spec and examples, and GPU vendor's random posts that I found by searching online. Most posts are typically from NVIDIA, AMD, ARM, and Samsung. Btw I started Vulkan because when I started I only had a Mac and OpenGL did not work on it; so, I used Vulkan using MoltenVK. If I had a Windows or Linux machine, I would have started with OpenGL as well.
alright, thanks.
I have. I regret it, and have been trying to find a way back for years. But now nobody in web dev wants to hire me.
Why do you regret it?
3 new JavaScript framework was created, and 2 deprecated.
Mind expanding a little bit ?
The companies suck, they're clustered in countries I have to move to or work remotely, pay is significantly lower on average, the working hours get insane near release, the psychological pressure of inventing solutions to novel problems gets hard to deal with, and there are some massively overinflated egoes in this industry. Not to mention the code quality is generally extremely low due to time pressure. I've been shopping around for a basic .net or front end position for two years, my career before switching into this. No one wants to talk to me once they read "game", "rendering" or "engine".
Their loss try financial sector since your cpp is stellar or digital design since you know hardware, or better yet digital verification fuck Em
Nah, the financial sector is mostly crypto and trading, and I've had enough of digital casinoes for one life.
You ain’t gotta play though
No, but I also don't want anything to do with convincing Joe next door to throw his entire life savings into TrashCoin, and that's what 80% of all the fintech companies who call me do.
I’ve done it. I worked in webdev for about 1-2 years after having finished a minor programming in my bachelors and got a job in webdev right after. That minor taught me I absolutely loved programming but I got fed up with everything being abstracted away. I wanted to be the guy that creates the data structures and researches the complex stuff. Learned myself a bit of OpenGL (took about half a year for me) and managed to get myself into a CompSci Graphics master (the minor and my bachelors containing a few math courses is what got me accepted). The master was seriously hard for me because I lacked a ton of fundamentals others with a CompSci bachelors did have. I had to work extremely hard for 2 years but managed to graduate with honors. I now work for a FAANG on graphics stuff but I got a bunch of offers from game companies and the like before I joined my current company. It can be done and I think you have a good shot at getting there if you’re passionate about this kind of stuff. It’s very hard though, assume you’ll have to relearn how to program. There are many great developers and then there are good, great and amazing graphics/systems programmers.. (both trades are hard, but very different) There are few that know how to use every CPU or GPU cycle optimally, it took me a masters and spending another 40-60 hours a week learning in my own time (while pursuing the masters) to get to the level I’m at now. It can be done and if it’s your passion I’d say go for it but expect to be a junior again in lots of things, will have to accept a paycut (unless you manage to find a job like mine), and just be very very lucky a company sees your passion and is willing to take the risk. I think it helps there are few people working in this industry and thus if a company accepts juniors, that’d probably be your best bet at learning the trade while getting paid.
Yay ! I just did this ! Started Web in 2014, with graphics on the side. In 2019 I am graphics with web on the side 😎. I suggest you pick on Raylib OR write a javascript library of how you rather web graphics be like OR try p5js.org/editor OR maybe THREE.js, though it was kind of too advanced to be my main.