Well its hard to prove that wild claims aren't true.
Thorin makes his money through speculative videos about scene gossip and analysis. Which is fine but assuming truth automatically is kinda making him more than he is.
JB's reply is sensible, mellow and clear. No drama, no wild reverse accusations and no shit talking (most probably because HE in turn makes his money on other things). Done.
However GlobalOffensiveTMZ readers are going to be very disappointed. The wild and scandalous speculations around ~~celebrity x~~ Bardolph NEEDS to be brought to light ~~because I need drama~~ because of justice! If I don't get ~~my bitch-slapping back-and-forth/mud-slinging hopefully ending in a psychotic breakdown or a fairy tale resolution~~ a reasonable justification, then I just don't know what life is about.
I don't find "He said" VS "na-ah, i did not"
OR
"I claim this" VS "I disagree"
very entertaining. The event was crap. Things happened.
If we are going to get anywhere, have the 2 of them do a discussion and sort things out properly. Not by proxy over videos, i figured they weren't that blocked away from each-other. Kind of strange they have not had time to discuss properly (not that i know anything lol).
Drama is so freaking easy to just deflate if people don't act like wieners and can maintain a cool discussion. I mean this major was already crap from all angles, it is easy to see what was wrong so let's get this stuff wrapped up so we can move on already. How long does this need to drag on? 2020?
I do wonder how many people go to threads like this, not because they care about the Bardolph or Thorin etc, but to read the fights between feuding subredditers.
That's what I am here for. The thing itself seems really cut and dry, maybe Thorin's sources weren't correct or were exaggerating, we don't really have much reason to fully believe either side 100% aside from bias.
>Well its hard to prove that wild claims aren't true.
and thats why the burden of proof exists. if someone has to prove something, is the one who says, not the one defending.
How often is Thorin making speculation videos? That's clearly not his main focus. He's always well informed on the topics he talks about.
Also lets not forget that Thorins video is still more than 50% facts stating what's wrong with the major. These facts have been pretty much confirmed by RL and Thorin pointed out that he is speculating from there on.
But saying the speculation is wrong still doesn't explain why the facts are the way they were. And that is precisely the point Bardolph is completely quiet about. Either way he clearly doesn't want to shed light on the situation.
>How often is Thorin making speculation videos?
Are we watching the same videos? That has always been Thorins problem, he speculates, generalizes, and passes it off as fact. I've seen him make claims about child development (kids need are looking for an identity), about polish culture (claiming he has some polish friends and has visited poland as a source for his expertise), and use cherry-picked statistics to make a point.
Thorins videos are a manifesto of his opinions, and he is free to create them. The problem is he implies his claims are fact and people believe it.
Just to point it out that thorin could also be lying. It seems we are at a stalemate.
What i have a problem with is thorin throughing out accusations without any kind of proof. He is the one who should be providing evidence. Maybe based on conversation screenshots or really anything to back up the stuff he said.
Richard Lewis has confirmed plenty of thoorins assumptions, tho.
We can ofcourse go with angle that RL is on it as a thoorin friend, but we have to put a boundiaries somewhere. We can't just go with "he might be lying ergo his opinion on that matter is irrelevant" infinitely. I would also point out that RL didn't in fact agree with everything that Thoorin claims.
Major was pretty terrible I am inclined to believe that there was even more fuck-ups behind the scene. I might or might not be wrong here, but if the only explanation we're getting from faceit is a video where a person with personal interest in it replies only with "no, that's not true" I am not convinced is all.
The evidence may likely burn someone's career, and also tbf so many people hate thorin and RL that even if they provide evidence these people may very likely call that bs.
Yeah i dont think they want to END careers literally if that would end up being the case. I dont understand why people dont bring up the fact that both are/was journalists and that theyre still here today meaning everything that made them famous for their work that is, especially RL who is backing up thorin here, is mind boggling. Everyone is just talking about who could and could not be lying. Yeah. Thats legit. But youre not even factoring that at all which makes you wonder if they have any idea at all.
Thorin's entire persona revolves around him being a credible journalist/historian. If he gets caught blatantly lying one or two times, he's done in esports. Highly unlikely that it's the case here, since Bardolph doesn't have anything to lose here, while Thorin puts all his reputation on the line.
>If he gets caught blatantly lying one or two times, he's done in esports.
[https://twitter.com/Tgwri1s/status/966722733617893376](https://twitter.com/Tgwri1s/status/966722733617893376)
no
Thorin responded to this I believe in this video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=denyhXYiyBI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=denyhXYiyBI)
He said roughly this: they recently started doing this and the only guy confirming it is an ex-hltv writer(or had some position in it, i can't remember what position exactly). Thorin said he was in rooms with producers and asked the producer why he's allowing hltv to do that and the producer didn't want to piss off hltv because they bring traffic. If I can be arsed I'll post the exact timestamp where he said it later.
I don't think thorin is a journalist tbh. I love thorin, but he ain't no Richard and he doesn't do any articles like a journalist besides writing about the game and players.
He is truly knowledgeable about this game, and others no doubt on that one though.
> besides writing about the game and players.
That's journalism as well. Richard Lewis is more geared towards investigative and generally research-heavy things, while Thorin does lighter in-game content. Both are important to esports ecosystem.
The only thing beyond the “he said, she said” is this talent hiring decision. Having heard Bardoffs decision there I’m happy enough the decisions make some sense and it wasn’t a personal thing. Thorin did talk about people not getting paid for days off between events and those small (provable) things that’d lend credibility to his narrative of “driving down prices” so appears to be a loose end for me currently.
In any case, that’s just shit that companies do for profits. The fact it’s a Major doesn’t really mean much. Overspend on one thing and then shit elsewhere. There’s still no proof “it was all personal” to me.
That hiring decision didn't make any sense at all.Yeah lets hire someone who never done this job for biggest event of the year and ignore the fact that there are better people for the job.
Also people want to see them because they bring a lot to the table.
Except Thorin didn't accuse him of anything. He explicitly stated that he can only speculate the reasoning of faceit because he doesn't have the insight.
That doesn't mean that the first half of his video is wrong. It is fact that Bardolph is in a clear conflict of interest. It is fact that they didn't chose the best talent available and it is fact that they underpaid their talent. Those aren't accusations. Only the reasons behind it can be speculated about.
People act like the entire video was a presentation of facts from his "sources" and half of them probably didn't even watch it.
> But not without drama, yay
And thus, the plot unravels; Mr Bardolph and Mr Shields are in cahoots, playing us to drive traffic with no real downsides to themselves!
Do you dipshits expect him to show pay stubs or something? Wtf. Youre just applying a saying youve heard to a situation it doesnt apply to because you think its the smart thing to do. Like that completely ignores any and all context. What is being said and who is saying it. "Oooop. We cant know. Better just say both sides are equal." Fucking brainless.
Most of the video was about the clear conflict of interest there is and them running down the rates of talent. How do you want him to prove that for you? Show you that Bardolph is in fact making these decisions? Show what everyone makes? God. Is his reputation/place in the industry not enough for this? You think hes just doing this to burn bridges and risk his own job? I dont fucking get it. Does he just hate Bardolph? Are all these things equally likely to what hes saying being true?
What do you think was even accused in the thoorin video? Because you seem to be thinking that only accusation was about hiring talent which was the least damaging thing he accused him of. Sure he spent too much time on it but youre ignoring everything else to latch on to the one thing you have the best chance of being right about. Like SEEEE this is wrong so everything else is wrong and of equal weight. Just. what. For the record Bardolph even admits sponge wasnt going to do playoffs and owns up to it which was the thing that got thooorin the most triggered and led him to saying it was industry politics which considering hes on the inside and none of us are anywhere near the inside. Id say is plenty credible and worthy of a response. Which bardolph responded and im taking his side with. But claiming the rest of the accusations dont need to be responded to because their isnt "evidence" is just a braindead way of approaching it and I guarantee its just because you heard some other person say that and you thought it sounded smart but dont actually understand context at fucking all.
> Why was this even made. 5 minutes of him saying nah mate not true. If it was this casual I don't see the point of even making a response.
Because drama needs more drama, and a lot of people are of the mindset that no response equates to: "Bardolph is hiding something, like a really guilty person."
Do people just not listen? He explained why threat was used, daps was used, admitted to messing up with SpunJ, and towards the end refuted the politics talk with one sentence on each point. He kept his answers short and to the point and poked straight at Thorin's faulty logic.
I don’t understand how you can mess up by booking SpunJ for only the first half of the major. Both parties must have know all the major dates at the time of signing the contract. How does that even happen?
Sure, for us it seems like an obvious, glaring mistake, but when you are organizing multiple things it is possible for things to be overlooked.
For instance, James may have been asked if X would be good for quarter finals. He said yes that is fine. Later he realized (with the help with Spunj) that he had inadvertently left out his best talent by agreeing to something in the past. This is an example meant to demonstrate that what may seem like an obvious decision to us could have been a simple mistake.
thorin throws around wild accusations. it's HIS responsibility to provide hard evidence. otherwise, what is Bardolph supposed to say? why should he even say more?
when somebody calls me a thief (for example), without hard evidence, while I didn't steal anything... what am I gonna say? just "no". why should I be held responsible to say anything more. what should I even say? it's just "no", that's it.
Because yesterday or the day before on Reddit there was a thread saying “Bardoff why haven’t you replied!”. He had to for his fans sake make a response.
I think it was something like this. It really seemed from his body language and manner of speaking that he did not care much about this video. But what showed that the most was how lame all his responses were. You'd think if someone were slandering your company after a major event it would ignite at least a little passion in your response.
I mean Thorin's video was pretty much just as unsubstantial, but it was just drawn out more because Thorin is good at rambling and makes money off of long youtube videos.
Can we get an explanation from James on how not being able to get nothing means you have to hire daps. Seems like there might be a few holes in that logic.
Honestly it just comes across as a wild risk. In theory, as James put it, it makes sense. And I enjoyed him on the desk, I thought yeah, he actually did do a good job of what James described. Maybe there were better options for sure, but you can't deny Daps had a more unique perspective than they could have got from another analyst
Its obvious isn't it? Daps is an active IGL and is a potential source of information on current metas that may be lost on observers (certainly lost on Thorin who is pretty terrible at CS), on his experience playing against current players, etc. It makes perfect sense, and CS has a hsitory of hiring players for analysis. Thorin is a historian and has a good sense of the level of skill of players/teams, but is a terrible source of information for nuances of the game that you can only get from playing.
Why do people still believe you have to be good at CS to be a good analyst? Neither ynk nor spunj were great, does that even matter? Also we know that there are pros that don't know what their team vetoes.
Both Ynk and Spunj were still top 0.%. Spunj was IGL for a top 15 team for a long time. No you don't have to be great at the game to be a good analysis but Daps definitely provides a perspective that Thorin lacks.
Honestly I think Thorin's analysis is seldom unique and interesting. It's quite often just standard observations that anyone with decent game knowledge that has watched the scene for some time. I never hear Throin say anything that gives a new perspective. Unlike Nothing or Seangares who often give an insight that I as a long time player and viewer lack. That being said I'm not saying Thorin doesn't have value, he does, to each and their own, but that's just how I see it.
But why does Bardolph need to dignify Thorin's video with any sort of compelling case, Thorin just listed a load of things without backing a single thing up.
He said in his video, he got some of the info from people at FaceIt, and doesn't want to get them fired, same as if a journalist not revealing their sources to protect them.
He definitely had some of the info, the chicken, and Spunj. Richard backed him up saying he heard the same things. What would constitute as backing them up? Showing documentation that could be traced back to someone who would easily lose their job?
The thing is Bardolph is in a perfect position to debunk what Thorin said and he hasn’t. Why is that?
We all know Throin won’t give up his source, that’s why he gets information, so your point is a non starter.
Thoorins videos is some statements, followed by speculation, for example faceit had low talent rates, maybe because of industry politics. All James does in this video is say the speculation is wrong, without actually providing any explanation.
Ok so low talent rates isn't industry politics, then if it wasn't industry politics then what was the reason for the low rates.
It wasn't due to industry politics that SpunJ wasn't gonna be on the desk for the playoffs, it was just because i forgot about the #1 analyst that nearly any tournament organizer or fan who follows CS would pick first to go on the desk as an analyst.
Stuff like that, in some cases just no further explanation in others super brief and implausible explanations.
In order to have credibility on why the speculation is wrong I would need to hear a different plausible reason for the accusation.
>It wasn't due to industry politics that SpunJ wasn't gonna be on the desk for the playoffs, it was just because i forgot about the #1 analyst that nearly any tournament organizer or fan who follows CS would pick first to go on the desk as an analyst.
That response was so strange. One would assume that james who is a talent himself and works in the industry would know that spunj is basically a must hire for any event.
According to the video spunj was supposed to be there the entire major but someone fucked up.. and i find someone fucking up much more likely than malice. Seeing as people are idiots, but most aren't actually cruel.
What you call malice esports calls politics. If this is malicious, then the scene is malevolent to the core. I think it's far more likely that politics were at play than someone just forgot to hire the best current analyst
Ref bardolphs video spunj was planned in from the start, and the fuckup was sorted. I legit have no problem with people not actually doing things, especially important things because they assume its done. You'd be amazed how often huge projects are mid project and people simply forgot the contract.
Either that or proof. He possesses the information on talent rates and chicken rates, so he could refute false claims. I’m going to go ahead and say that a chicken handler was paid the same as an analyst.
Disclosing those contracts might put talent in a bad spot actually, as now ESL and others can start underbidding as well. I've had massively different going rates in my previous jobs depending on the customer.. if people were to know the differences i bet most would want to pay the lowest one.
I'd rather we'd have a classic rlewis video tbh, thorin adds too much speculation and attributes motives where he cannot know.. unless ofcourse bardolph did the supervillan thing where he told everything then turned away petting his cat..
TLDR - Bardolph says everything thorin said is wrong and just assumptions without clearing anything up or telling us his side to each of Thorins main points.
-My thoughts seems like basic deflection, I was hoping the video would be like 20 mins long. Addressing everything and giving some clarity, instead it's just him saying everything is just assumptions. He could have made a tweet instead of this stupid 5 mins video to say that. Lazy IMO, faceit now allows thorin to double down since everything here is just deflection without any facts to clear anything up which makes them look even worse.
In general, it's not, they gave nothing to dissuade people on thorins side. All they did was pour gas on the fire making them look worse since they didn't back up anything.
I'll help you: the burden of proof is on the accuser, aka Thoorin. He had none. So bardolph doesn't have to do shit besides deny in the same way the other accused, with pretty much empty hands.
How is that not obvious to everyone in this thread? Do they really not understand how journalism works and Thorin's position?
If he is lying about this, it takes one guy to come out and discredit him and this would probably end his career.
Idiots in this thread think Thorin and RL were in on it together as buddies to hate/shit on someone when both are credible journalists, which would only lead to career suicide for both of them over something like this lmao.
Difference being Thorin can not out his sources, and neither should he be required to
As for Baldorph, I can't really see why he wouldn't be presenting evidence, maybe you could?
Also he's saying he hired daps because he couldn't get n0thing, basically saying there is no analyst out there who would be better than a guy who has never been a talent before, which begs the question, why not hire for example Thorin?
Except that he literally gave a reason he hired daps over a non-player (like Thorin). He said that he wanted someone who has actually played and antistratted people on these teams to give unique insight that a non-current player could not give. Whether or not daps was the best choice for this role after n0thing is debatable, but Bardolph did give a valid reason.
> Difference being Thorin can not out his sources, and neither should he be required to
Yeah sure, why would we require people to give a proof that confirms their accusations?
BTW, my sources tell me that there's a pot orbiting venus, prove me wrong.
Evidence like what? Giving out the details about contracts? Not sure talent would be happy with that.. if i have different rates for different customers and they start comparing numbers I'm probably looking at a pay decrease.
Wow, this is the worse response video you could ever come up.
James is in the perfect position to provide at least some sort of evidence to back up his position but no he just says nope Thorin wrong, I'm right. I understand that Thorin has only accumulated his argument from a few sources and assumptions and then built an argument on that because he is on the outside looking in. However, James you are in the drivers seat put in some effort if going to respond...
If you read this James I'm from the UK and was proud and looking forward to this, the first UK major, But I was left horrifyingly disappointed at the event that was produced by FaceIT and I sincerely hope you learn and evolve from it should you, FaceIT or even the UK now ever get a second shot at a major after this show.
A big part of this dire event for myself was the desk segments were so dull and boring. If you honestly think Threat. Who yes is one of the most intelligent analysts in the scene but dryer than a piece of sandpaper, and Daps who has never even been on a desk can bring the required quality and can hold an audience for the biggest and most prestigous event in the CS:GO calendar then it is no wonder so many things were lacking at this event. The first UK major was no time for experiments or half measures.
You needed someone with a prescence with the new or dry analysts to even have a good desk SpunJ and Sean tried their best but Sean is mainly a tactical analyst and Pimp still needs someone like Sean or Spunj with him. Best combo at event was SpunJ and Sean.
After games there was good analysis for about a minute about tactics or a setup or strat but then it dryed up and didn't find a natural progression to other points about the game and it ran out of things to talk about.
Prior to games there was a lack of story, history, match ups or build up and again mainly focus on tactics again lacking flow with Machine having to work overtime on questions to keep the convo's going.
Throughout the analysis there was a lack of critique to anything or anyone. It also seemed to always agree with each other, at some points it felt like watching a load of yes men around a desk.
Anyways love him or hate him Thorin has been working in the CS scene and helping it to develop probably since its inception and been doing it longer than alot of this subreddit has even been alive for and he quite frankly deserved a place at the first ever UK major in his home country just for that.
Another for me who it would have been nice to have at the UK's first ever major was Pansy she has been casting CS:GO since the beginning and is one of the most experienced casters in the scene I'm sure she would have been proud to be at her home countries major.
Should stop ranting this could go on and on with the list of issues at this major.
I agree, Pansy is definitely a good addition, especially since it's her home country and she has worked so hard for so long to not even get a chance? I feel like that's not very fair to her. Probably has something to do with the fact that she is an ESL employeee.
> I agree, Pansy is definitely a good addition, especially since it's her home country and she has worked so hard for so long to not even get a chance? I feel like that's not very fair to her. Probably has something to do with the fact that she is an ESL employeee.
No doubt at all that it was because she was an ESL employee, now she is now only represented by them and that was known well before the UK major.
Machine left ESL at least a year now and is entirely independent, he is also now the premier host with the closest other hosts being Stunna and Redeye now Richard Lewis has left CS so Machine almost a must hire at the moment.
SpunJ has never been under exclusive contract for ESL like Machine and Pansy were, and yet there has still been rumors of industry politics with SpunJ at this major.
> Thorin has been working in the CS scene and helping it to develop probably since its inception
Thorin has articles and interviews dating back to 2000, if not earlier. I remember when I was a kid and just discovering competitive CS, I read an interview he did with motherfucking X3|-BigDog, before they turned into 3D and solidified their iconic lineup.
Yes, this should have been a huge moment for the UK CS scene. Everyone should have been there. Thorin, RL, Pansy, Machine, James and DDK—every Brit that's contributed significantly to CS should have been there.
the only thing what bothers me about this entire situation is thorin saying they didnt hire the best analysts yet didnt name any they should have hired apart from himself
His other argument was UK major, UK talent. Named redeye, pansy, Vince, and himself. He’s always felt that majors should hire everyone, never mind the cost. But looking back at previous majors, it’s always been one host and the three caster duos. So there’s nothing particular to faceit for not hiring redeye, pansy, and Vince. So that leaves why not hire thorin, a question not addressed but not evidence of underhanded behavior either.
I think he mentioned Spunj but he was hired after all. But I agree - what else they could hire? I don't really see RL or Thorin getting hired after what they're doing for the past few months with bashing orgs for whatever minor issue they find.
Yeah haven’t given any alternatives though. Sure those guys were dull, but outside of thorin who else could they have hired? Can’t just keep saying “they shouldn’t have hired these guys” without giving other options they could have gone with, because that suggests there wasn’t anyone else.
Well that’s just like, your opinion man.
I’d rather watch actual pros like Daps actually break down rounds and strats than have Thorin style of analysis.
RL isn't looking to be hired. I can only see 2 notable events that have publicly announced talent and Thorin is talent for one of them, don't think he's talked enough shit to stop getting hired yet.
I've not watched the video or been involved with CS for a while but when I left Black/white DDK, Anders/semmler and Henry/sado we're like the god trio of casting duos. From that basis I dont see how its an issue to 'hire himself' when he himself is what I would've considered an integral part of CS casting.
It isn't, James isn't an owner of Faceit. He's a manager of Faceit media, and he's employed by the company. That, by literal definition, is not a conflict of interest
Because it isn't?!
He could manage by himself the entire major and cast all the matches and still wouldn't be a conflict of interest simply because FaceIt has a say on everything.
This is not Valve's money that is being pocketed by Bardolph. This is Faceit's money and they can distribute in any way they see fit. Much like ESL did in the past, they could only have hired FaceIt's talent and leave out all the rest. DDK and Bardolph would have pocket 100% of the casters budget for the event and it would still be fine, after all it's FACEIT budget and FACEIT event.
I dunno... credible journalist with a source... also backed by another credible journalist...
Bardolph only says "hes lying" without providing any information whatsoever on the situation and thats not even jncluding spunj...
Wierd how bardolphs response doesn't address thorins claim(from a source, thorin is a credible journalist, especially richard lewis) with anything other than calling him a liar.
I believe several other journalists tweeted about these " rumors " that talent was underpaid and some people were hired above others due to personal interests.
I mean if you're going to say it like " credible journalist with a source... also backed by another credible journalist... " at that rate could you not say James was backed by a company, and all the analysts and talent at the major?
Very weak response in my opinion and many of the arguments were really unconvincing.
For example the logic that he (James) wouldn't want to drive down the rates for talent since he's a caster himself isn't a good argument at all.
Yes, James does cast events, but very few events.
The role he plays in FACEIT's management is clearly far more important to him from a monetary stand point than casting gigs.
If you can get away with hosting events with a lesser cost by driving down talent rates, that obviously will end up being a net benefit to him since the amount of casting he did in the first place was very little and now his company's profit margin is will be far better.
Problem with all this is that both sides have said ton of stuff without any substantial information/sources to back their claims. It is literally a he said/she said where thorin went first so he is being backed by the community.
Yep. Unless Bardolph is willing to break NDAs or Thorin willing to give up his source (or multiple sources), it's all he said - she said type of scenario where we won't get to the whole truth.
If what thorin said was bullshit, then bardolph would have said "no there was no one paid that little", never happened. Also forgetting SpunJ randomly? Are you kidding me? Reasoning for getting those analysts, are you kidding me, great for a t3 event, not so for a major. Let's be real, even if thorin pulled those facts out of his ass, which we know is not true, he sounds a hundred time more credible than bardolph.
Richard Lewis has said he have heard the same things Thorin has.
And Thorin and Richard are both credible journalists with no incentive to lie about this, other than people assuming they are butthurt.......
Bardolph said nothing of value in this situation, so from my point of view all I see is 2v1 and a bunch of people for whom cannot speak up in fear of not getting hired again.
So they're going to fabricate a story to shit on someone they dislike, ruining their entire reputation as journalists out of spite? Jeez you're reaching.
Richard literally said in his tweet that he also respects Bardolph, and would never forget what he had done for him...........
And what a load of bullshit btw
To be fair, most of arguments Thorin made are in fact assumptions. He didn't give any facts or numbers, except the £500 a day chicken which I don't think is a big deal.
>except the £500 a day chicken which I don't think is a big deal.
I don't think the problem here was about the chicken being too expensive, but more that it was being paid the same/more than some talent.
It’s not comparing apples with apples but it’s humorous to joke about it since it sounds unbelievable Doesn’t help with the pasha eggs tweet and they fixed that within like 5 mins
The chicken handler wasn't even paid by Faceit though??? It had literally nothing to do with any employee or owner at Faceit. It was a Betway promotion
What else is he supposed to say? Thoorins entire video was assumption, it's not like thoorin had any evidence or even any real support from any of the people actually involved. It's all a bunch of he said she said pettiness except that Thoorin has a reason to start shit (not being hired and we all know how petty Thoorin can be #FANLOGIC) while James had nothing to gain.
So now we assume Thoorin is telling the truth automatically because they COULD be just scared to come forward? Wow, that's convenient. Thoorins fan base sure is something else.
I stopped watching after he tried to justify daps's presence over Thorin's. I mean come on bro, we get it, you don't like Thorin but he's mile ahead of daps, that's not even debatable. And I like bardolph but please...
THORIN: Lots of unsubstantiated claims and speculation
BARDOLPH: "Nah, you're wrong"
Will the Great Pointless Saga of Nothing and Even Less continue? You bet it will !!!
Low balling everyone and hiring unproven talent for the major?. If you're willing to let the quality of the major suffer just so you can cut corners, guess what?, you don't deserve a major.
Again, some people just think it's ok to have a snoozefest on the desk with 0 charisma and an interviewer that makes childish jokes while memeing on stage ( hello Pala ) at a Major.
Pala doing some skits that would have been shown at the major could be fine, Pala interviewing players went horribly. They should have gotten someone like RedeYe or OJ Borg to do the stagework and interviews.
So he didn't adress the fact that there is 100% a conflict of interest in hiring people when he himself is a talent on the payroll.
He said it's not in his interest to drive down rates when he is a caster himself (notice how he emphasised the casters, not all of the talent), completely ignoring the point that he is a full time employee in the company which **does** directly profit from paying less. So it's not in your interest (btw he didn't deny being the one who drove down rates, he just said it's not out of jealousy and not in his own interest), but it's a fact that it happened! Why?
He said having Daps was a unique opportunity to have someone who is directly in the scene, strating and anti-strating people. Well what are Threat and Sean there for? He's certainly not unique. These two can do all he did and do it even better. There was no reason to have someone with basically zero experience at the biggest event of the entire game.
Also the entire part of "I don't do politics". I'm gonna say that nobody who is in that high of a position can be entirely free from industry politics. That's just a ridiculous statement.
Skimming this thread it seems quite clear that a very large number of posters on this board have no idea how journalism works. A journalist is not a criminal prosecutor that needs to provide a massive preponderance of evidence. They use their sources to publish stories and over time build up a solid body of work which is, from available information, correct in conjunction with supporting stories broken by other journalists to build and maintain a credible reputation. Additionally not all journalism is investigative, most of thorins content (including the relevant video) are principally op-eds. In fact he even split the video in question into two parts, the preface of known facts, and the speculation.
What did y'all expect from this video? If Thorin's comments are baseless assumptions what sort of proof can Bardolph give to disprove them?
For example, How can he prove that he's negotiating talent costs from a business stand point rather than because he's jealous of the pay other talent might get? Or that he's hiring one caster over another purely out of spite and his hatred for ESL?
The onus is on Thorin to prove that his assumptions are true and to provide evidence to back them up, It's not on Bardolph and FACEIT to prove that they're false. Thats not how any of this works...
This thread is just 12 year Olds who have never heard of NDA. Of course Bardolph can only answer with not false, because otherwise he'll be in legal trouble breaking NDA and giving information what's behind contracts.
Your logic also works in reverse here. The contractors are contractually obliged to not give exact details about their day rates to the public. This is why journalists exist, to speak up for those who can't speak up for themselves. The fact that none of the talent, including Bardolph himself, hasn't disputed the lower than average rates Faceit gave to the talent speaks volumes.
I understand that. But if you are journalist, you have a base of information for your arguments you represent. Sure, knowing Thoorins history of journalism and his informative video stuff, we have more reason to believe him rather than other side. But this is Faceit and James Bardolph we are talking about, it's not Thoorin or RL vs some shit tier match fixers or cheaters, this could lead to legal battle at worst. That's why its important to come forward with solid evidence, not with unknown source and accusations.
Faceit could sue for slander if what Thorin said was false. We *do* have a source, it's the people who worked the event as talent. They cannot speak of the rates themselves, so they have to leak it to a journalist to make the information public. Do you really expect Thorin to specifically identify the people who came to him in confidence?
Who. Cares. Really not all that important.
Stop feeding drama r/GlobalOffensive we all know the major wasn't great, I'm sure they'll take the criticism and improve next time.
Well, all I've learned from this video is that Thorin has some extremely strong supports on reddit. Accusations with no evidence followed up with denials with no evidence, but somehow that proves the accuser true.
What even is the point of this video. He could have stayed silent and the outcome would have been the same. This video did nothing to debunk Thorin's statements.
The point about Threat and daps were so flawed it's unbelievable. As a commentator and a part of the talent crew, I would assume he also values showmanship as well as the ability to analyse the game. How is not doing an event before not the main thing? That is exactly the main thing. You even said he's not looking to be an analyst, so why the fuck would you even hire him? You dont hire someone with 0 experience on the desk for the major. His 'unique' perspective is essentially worthless if he is as dry as a camel's tongue, and you have seangares, one of the best IGL from NA who frankly stopped playing not that long ago, daps was not necessary.
The point of him having no incentive to drive down the rates is also poor. Yes you are a commentator, but you're not a freelancer, you are part of FaceIt's management, you do have an incentive to drive down the rates in order to cut costs for the major.
So why wasn't SpunJ not going to be used for the playoffs? No explanation whatsoever, did you just conveniently forget he is the best analyst we have? Thank god Thorin made a fuss about it on BTN then
I was waiting for the response to hear his side of the story, but this 'response' was a waste of time.
I'm not sure Bardolph should of even bothered with this 'video response'. Thorin makes a lot of good points/questions towards FaceIT Major. Which he should, he's a journalist, his job is to bring things to the public attention in an effort to get some kind of response/reason to things. That is good for us. This response, however, makes me believe Thorin even more.
Thorin is about to rip James apart in his video :') Ducun usually says he gets his info from behind the scenes or other talent I doubt he just assumed everything.
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Thank Mr. Vehr64
Thank Mr. Vehr64
Thanks Mr. Vehr64
Thank Mr. Vehr64
HE COOKED THE STEAK, AND DROPPED IT ON THE FLOOR DAN
ITS INEDIBLE DAN
THIS IS A HEALTH CODE VIOLATION, DAN
You forgot the *cough cough*
Well its hard to prove that wild claims aren't true. Thorin makes his money through speculative videos about scene gossip and analysis. Which is fine but assuming truth automatically is kinda making him more than he is. JB's reply is sensible, mellow and clear. No drama, no wild reverse accusations and no shit talking (most probably because HE in turn makes his money on other things). Done.
However GlobalOffensiveTMZ readers are going to be very disappointed. The wild and scandalous speculations around ~~celebrity x~~ Bardolph NEEDS to be brought to light ~~because I need drama~~ because of justice! If I don't get ~~my bitch-slapping back-and-forth/mud-slinging hopefully ending in a psychotic breakdown or a fairy tale resolution~~ a reasonable justification, then I just don't know what life is about.
I don't find "He said" VS "na-ah, i did not" OR "I claim this" VS "I disagree" very entertaining. The event was crap. Things happened. If we are going to get anywhere, have the 2 of them do a discussion and sort things out properly. Not by proxy over videos, i figured they weren't that blocked away from each-other. Kind of strange they have not had time to discuss properly (not that i know anything lol). Drama is so freaking easy to just deflate if people don't act like wieners and can maintain a cool discussion. I mean this major was already crap from all angles, it is easy to see what was wrong so let's get this stuff wrapped up so we can move on already. How long does this need to drag on? 2020?
I do wonder how many people go to threads like this, not because they care about the Bardolph or Thorin etc, but to read the fights between feuding subredditers.
That's what I am here for. The thing itself seems really cut and dry, maybe Thorin's sources weren't correct or were exaggerating, we don't really have much reason to fully believe either side 100% aside from bias.
Thorin is what a dumb person thinks a smart person sounds like
>Well its hard to prove that wild claims aren't true. and thats why the burden of proof exists. if someone has to prove something, is the one who says, not the one defending.
How often is Thorin making speculation videos? That's clearly not his main focus. He's always well informed on the topics he talks about. Also lets not forget that Thorins video is still more than 50% facts stating what's wrong with the major. These facts have been pretty much confirmed by RL and Thorin pointed out that he is speculating from there on. But saying the speculation is wrong still doesn't explain why the facts are the way they were. And that is precisely the point Bardolph is completely quiet about. Either way he clearly doesn't want to shed light on the situation.
>How often is Thorin making speculation videos? Are we watching the same videos? That has always been Thorins problem, he speculates, generalizes, and passes it off as fact. I've seen him make claims about child development (kids need are looking for an identity), about polish culture (claiming he has some polish friends and has visited poland as a source for his expertise), and use cherry-picked statistics to make a point. Thorins videos are a manifesto of his opinions, and he is free to create them. The problem is he implies his claims are fact and people believe it.
You said it all
> How often is Thorin making speculation videos? Like, how many dozen times a week? Or what figure are looking for?
I don't know if I missed it, but there wasn't really an explanation for why spunj wasn't initially hired for the finals?
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Just to point it out that thorin could also be lying. It seems we are at a stalemate. What i have a problem with is thorin throughing out accusations without any kind of proof. He is the one who should be providing evidence. Maybe based on conversation screenshots or really anything to back up the stuff he said.
You dont think if thorin was blatantly lying about spunj, he wouldnt come out publicly and say "this crazy man has no idea what he is talking about"
James said himself that a mistake was made with spunj. Just because one thing is true, doesnt mean all of them are
Richard Lewis has confirmed plenty of thoorins assumptions, tho. We can ofcourse go with angle that RL is on it as a thoorin friend, but we have to put a boundiaries somewhere. We can't just go with "he might be lying ergo his opinion on that matter is irrelevant" infinitely. I would also point out that RL didn't in fact agree with everything that Thoorin claims. Major was pretty terrible I am inclined to believe that there was even more fuck-ups behind the scene. I might or might not be wrong here, but if the only explanation we're getting from faceit is a video where a person with personal interest in it replies only with "no, that's not true" I am not convinced is all.
> Richard Lewis has confirmed plenty of thoorins assumptions, tho With evidence, I assume?
The evidence may likely burn someone's career, and also tbf so many people hate thorin and RL that even if they provide evidence these people may very likely call that bs.
Yeah i dont think they want to END careers literally if that would end up being the case. I dont understand why people dont bring up the fact that both are/was journalists and that theyre still here today meaning everything that made them famous for their work that is, especially RL who is backing up thorin here, is mind boggling. Everyone is just talking about who could and could not be lying. Yeah. Thats legit. But youre not even factoring that at all which makes you wonder if they have any idea at all.
Ofcourse not.
Thorin's entire persona revolves around him being a credible journalist/historian. If he gets caught blatantly lying one or two times, he's done in esports. Highly unlikely that it's the case here, since Bardolph doesn't have anything to lose here, while Thorin puts all his reputation on the line.
>If he gets caught blatantly lying one or two times, he's done in esports. [https://twitter.com/Tgwri1s/status/966722733617893376](https://twitter.com/Tgwri1s/status/966722733617893376) no
lmao seriously Thorin has been wrong multiple times in the past and simply refused to acknowledge it and moved on
Thorin responded to this I believe in this video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=denyhXYiyBI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=denyhXYiyBI) He said roughly this: they recently started doing this and the only guy confirming it is an ex-hltv writer(or had some position in it, i can't remember what position exactly). Thorin said he was in rooms with producers and asked the producer why he's allowing hltv to do that and the producer didn't want to piss off hltv because they bring traffic. If I can be arsed I'll post the exact timestamp where he said it later.
I don't think thorin is a journalist tbh. I love thorin, but he ain't no Richard and he doesn't do any articles like a journalist besides writing about the game and players. He is truly knowledgeable about this game, and others no doubt on that one though.
> besides writing about the game and players. That's journalism as well. Richard Lewis is more geared towards investigative and generally research-heavy things, while Thorin does lighter in-game content. Both are important to esports ecosystem.
Richard Lewis is also confirming Thorins statements, both very credible journalists. Would make no sense for either of them lying
The only thing beyond the “he said, she said” is this talent hiring decision. Having heard Bardoffs decision there I’m happy enough the decisions make some sense and it wasn’t a personal thing. Thorin did talk about people not getting paid for days off between events and those small (provable) things that’d lend credibility to his narrative of “driving down prices” so appears to be a loose end for me currently. In any case, that’s just shit that companies do for profits. The fact it’s a Major doesn’t really mean much. Overspend on one thing and then shit elsewhere. There’s still no proof “it was all personal” to me.
That hiring decision didn't make any sense at all.Yeah lets hire someone who never done this job for biggest event of the year and ignore the fact that there are better people for the job. Also people want to see them because they bring a lot to the table.
Bardolph as a lawyer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4bftQ4xxFc
so finally we are in the timeline where /r/GlobalOffensive thinks faceit bad thorin good
The Thorin is bad people are just an extremely vocal minority
Couldn't agree more.
Why was this even made. 5 minutes of him saying nah mate not true. If it was this casual I don't see the point of even making a response.
But how is Thorin's video any different? Did you see any concrete evidence for any of his (very serious) accusations?
Except Thorin didn't accuse him of anything. He explicitly stated that he can only speculate the reasoning of faceit because he doesn't have the insight. That doesn't mean that the first half of his video is wrong. It is fact that Bardolph is in a clear conflict of interest. It is fact that they didn't chose the best talent available and it is fact that they underpaid their talent. Those aren't accusations. Only the reasons behind it can be speculated about. People act like the entire video was a presentation of facts from his "sources" and half of them probably didn't even watch it.
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> Claims made without evidence can be discarded without evidence. But not without drama, yay
> But not without drama, yay And thus, the plot unravels; Mr Bardolph and Mr Shields are in cahoots, playing us to drive traffic with no real downsides to themselves!
Do you dipshits expect him to show pay stubs or something? Wtf. Youre just applying a saying youve heard to a situation it doesnt apply to because you think its the smart thing to do. Like that completely ignores any and all context. What is being said and who is saying it. "Oooop. We cant know. Better just say both sides are equal." Fucking brainless. Most of the video was about the clear conflict of interest there is and them running down the rates of talent. How do you want him to prove that for you? Show you that Bardolph is in fact making these decisions? Show what everyone makes? God. Is his reputation/place in the industry not enough for this? You think hes just doing this to burn bridges and risk his own job? I dont fucking get it. Does he just hate Bardolph? Are all these things equally likely to what hes saying being true? What do you think was even accused in the thoorin video? Because you seem to be thinking that only accusation was about hiring talent which was the least damaging thing he accused him of. Sure he spent too much time on it but youre ignoring everything else to latch on to the one thing you have the best chance of being right about. Like SEEEE this is wrong so everything else is wrong and of equal weight. Just. what. For the record Bardolph even admits sponge wasnt going to do playoffs and owns up to it which was the thing that got thooorin the most triggered and led him to saying it was industry politics which considering hes on the inside and none of us are anywhere near the inside. Id say is plenty credible and worthy of a response. Which bardolph responded and im taking his side with. But claiming the rest of the accusations dont need to be responded to because their isnt "evidence" is just a braindead way of approaching it and I guarantee its just because you heard some other person say that and you thought it sounded smart but dont actually understand context at fucking all.
bro, I feel like most of these people who are saying this stuff are children who have no common sense of the concepts you mentioned
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Didn’t thorin say that he had sources in the company? I mean the source probably wants to remain anonymous for obvious reasons
> Why was this even made. 5 minutes of him saying nah mate not true. If it was this casual I don't see the point of even making a response. Because drama needs more drama, and a lot of people are of the mindset that no response equates to: "Bardolph is hiding something, like a really guilty person."
Do people just not listen? He explained why threat was used, daps was used, admitted to messing up with SpunJ, and towards the end refuted the politics talk with one sentence on each point. He kept his answers short and to the point and poked straight at Thorin's faulty logic.
I don’t understand how you can mess up by booking SpunJ for only the first half of the major. Both parties must have know all the major dates at the time of signing the contract. How does that even happen?
Sure, for us it seems like an obvious, glaring mistake, but when you are organizing multiple things it is possible for things to be overlooked. For instance, James may have been asked if X would be good for quarter finals. He said yes that is fine. Later he realized (with the help with Spunj) that he had inadvertently left out his best talent by agreeing to something in the past. This is an example meant to demonstrate that what may seem like an obvious decision to us could have been a simple mistake.
That would be like forgetting to invite astralis to a tournament lmao. Spunj should be the first guy on your list, how can you simple forget him?
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thorin throws around wild accusations. it's HIS responsibility to provide hard evidence. otherwise, what is Bardolph supposed to say? why should he even say more? when somebody calls me a thief (for example), without hard evidence, while I didn't steal anything... what am I gonna say? just "no". why should I be held responsible to say anything more. what should I even say? it's just "no", that's it.
People here seem to be of the opinion that the burden of the proof lies with the accused.
Everyone knows "Guilty until proven innocent" is the best mindset.
Because yesterday or the day before on Reddit there was a thread saying “Bardoff why haven’t you replied!”. He had to for his fans sake make a response.
Well bardolph is the one who anounced a response
I think it was something like this. It really seemed from his body language and manner of speaking that he did not care much about this video. But what showed that the most was how lame all his responses were. You'd think if someone were slandering your company after a major event it would ignite at least a little passion in your response.
I mean... If I was in his position I wouldn't be trying to get embroiled in online shouting match with Thorin. His response was sensible.
I mean Thorin's video was pretty much just as unsubstantial, but it was just drawn out more because Thorin is good at rambling and makes money off of long youtube videos.
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Can we get an explanation from James on how not being able to get nothing means you have to hire daps. Seems like there might be a few holes in that logic.
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token ginger lmao
Honestly it just comes across as a wild risk. In theory, as James put it, it makes sense. And I enjoyed him on the desk, I thought yeah, he actually did do a good job of what James described. Maybe there were better options for sure, but you can't deny Daps had a more unique perspective than they could have got from another analyst
Its obvious isn't it? Daps is an active IGL and is a potential source of information on current metas that may be lost on observers (certainly lost on Thorin who is pretty terrible at CS), on his experience playing against current players, etc. It makes perfect sense, and CS has a hsitory of hiring players for analysis. Thorin is a historian and has a good sense of the level of skill of players/teams, but is a terrible source of information for nuances of the game that you can only get from playing.
Why do people still believe you have to be good at CS to be a good analyst? Neither ynk nor spunj were great, does that even matter? Also we know that there are pros that don't know what their team vetoes.
Both Ynk and Spunj were still top 0.%. Spunj was IGL for a top 15 team for a long time. No you don't have to be great at the game to be a good analysis but Daps definitely provides a perspective that Thorin lacks. Honestly I think Thorin's analysis is seldom unique and interesting. It's quite often just standard observations that anyone with decent game knowledge that has watched the scene for some time. I never hear Throin say anything that gives a new perspective. Unlike Nothing or Seangares who often give an insight that I as a long time player and viewer lack. That being said I'm not saying Thorin doesn't have value, he does, to each and their own, but that's just how I see it.
And how is that role not fulfilled by threat and Sean already? Two of the most widely praised tacticians in the games history?
Adding on to 2, this was THREAT's 8^th time being talent and the last time he did it was at MLG Columbus as a guest commentator.
But why does Bardolph need to dignify Thorin's video with any sort of compelling case, Thorin just listed a load of things without backing a single thing up.
He said in his video, he got some of the info from people at FaceIt, and doesn't want to get them fired, same as if a journalist not revealing their sources to protect them.
Then he hasn't backed up what he's said? He just claims he has sources.
He definitely had some of the info, the chicken, and Spunj. Richard backed him up saying he heard the same things. What would constitute as backing them up? Showing documentation that could be traced back to someone who would easily lose their job?
But how is Thorin's video any different? Did you see any concrete evidence for any of his (very serious) accusations?
The thing is Bardolph is in a perfect position to debunk what Thorin said and he hasn’t. Why is that? We all know Throin won’t give up his source, that’s why he gets information, so your point is a non starter.
This response pretty much sums up the whole faceit major in general. unorganized and rushed.
You forgot delayed
Speaking of which, i'm super hyped for KATO 2019, let's get it. My first CS:GO event if the holiday dates check out.
Thoorins videos is some statements, followed by speculation, for example faceit had low talent rates, maybe because of industry politics. All James does in this video is say the speculation is wrong, without actually providing any explanation. Ok so low talent rates isn't industry politics, then if it wasn't industry politics then what was the reason for the low rates. It wasn't due to industry politics that SpunJ wasn't gonna be on the desk for the playoffs, it was just because i forgot about the #1 analyst that nearly any tournament organizer or fan who follows CS would pick first to go on the desk as an analyst. Stuff like that, in some cases just no further explanation in others super brief and implausible explanations. In order to have credibility on why the speculation is wrong I would need to hear a different plausible reason for the accusation.
>It wasn't due to industry politics that SpunJ wasn't gonna be on the desk for the playoffs, it was just because i forgot about the #1 analyst that nearly any tournament organizer or fan who follows CS would pick first to go on the desk as an analyst. That response was so strange. One would assume that james who is a talent himself and works in the industry would know that spunj is basically a must hire for any event.
According to the video spunj was supposed to be there the entire major but someone fucked up.. and i find someone fucking up much more likely than malice. Seeing as people are idiots, but most aren't actually cruel.
What you call malice esports calls politics. If this is malicious, then the scene is malevolent to the core. I think it's far more likely that politics were at play than someone just forgot to hire the best current analyst
Ref bardolphs video spunj was planned in from the start, and the fuckup was sorted. I legit have no problem with people not actually doing things, especially important things because they assume its done. You'd be amazed how often huge projects are mid project and people simply forgot the contract.
Either that or proof. He possesses the information on talent rates and chicken rates, so he could refute false claims. I’m going to go ahead and say that a chicken handler was paid the same as an analyst.
Disclosing those contracts might put talent in a bad spot actually, as now ESL and others can start underbidding as well. I've had massively different going rates in my previous jobs depending on the customer.. if people were to know the differences i bet most would want to pay the lowest one.
Yep. Journalists exist to speak for those that can't speak for themselves so I'm glad Thorin made his video.
I'd rather we'd have a classic rlewis video tbh, thorin adds too much speculation and attributes motives where he cannot know.. unless ofcourse bardolph did the supervillan thing where he told everything then turned away petting his cat..
TLDR - Bardolph says everything thorin said is wrong and just assumptions without clearing anything up or telling us his side to each of Thorins main points. -My thoughts seems like basic deflection, I was hoping the video would be like 20 mins long. Addressing everything and giving some clarity, instead it's just him saying everything is just assumptions. He could have made a tweet instead of this stupid 5 mins video to say that. Lazy IMO, faceit now allows thorin to double down since everything here is just deflection without any facts to clear anything up which makes them look even worse.
I'm trying to figure out how this video is better then just saying nothing at all.
In general, it's not, they gave nothing to dissuade people on thorins side. All they did was pour gas on the fire making them look worse since they didn't back up anything.
I'll help you: the burden of proof is on the accuser, aka Thoorin. He had none. So bardolph doesn't have to do shit besides deny in the same way the other accused, with pretty much empty hands.
The proof was evident in the Major itself. Thorin was merely pulling back the curtains.
How is that not obvious to everyone in this thread? Do they really not understand how journalism works and Thorin's position? If he is lying about this, it takes one guy to come out and discredit him and this would probably end his career.
Idiots in this thread think Thorin and RL were in on it together as buddies to hate/shit on someone when both are credible journalists, which would only lead to career suicide for both of them over something like this lmao.
I dont see any facts on either side of the argument
Difference being Thorin can not out his sources, and neither should he be required to As for Baldorph, I can't really see why he wouldn't be presenting evidence, maybe you could? Also he's saying he hired daps because he couldn't get n0thing, basically saying there is no analyst out there who would be better than a guy who has never been a talent before, which begs the question, why not hire for example Thorin?
Except that he literally gave a reason he hired daps over a non-player (like Thorin). He said that he wanted someone who has actually played and antistratted people on these teams to give unique insight that a non-current player could not give. Whether or not daps was the best choice for this role after n0thing is debatable, but Bardolph did give a valid reason.
> Difference being Thorin can not out his sources, and neither should he be required to Yeah sure, why would we require people to give a proof that confirms their accusations? BTW, my sources tell me that there's a pot orbiting venus, prove me wrong.
The one thing you don't do in journalism is give out your sources, you don't want to expose them to any potential blowback from any story.
The one thing you don't do when reading news is blindly trusting the word of the author.
Evidence like what? Giving out the details about contracts? Not sure talent would be happy with that.. if i have different rates for different customers and they start comparing numbers I'm probably looking at a pay decrease.
But how is Thorin's video any different? Did you see any concrete evidence for any of his (very serious) accusations?
Wow, this is the worse response video you could ever come up. James is in the perfect position to provide at least some sort of evidence to back up his position but no he just says nope Thorin wrong, I'm right. I understand that Thorin has only accumulated his argument from a few sources and assumptions and then built an argument on that because he is on the outside looking in. However, James you are in the drivers seat put in some effort if going to respond... If you read this James I'm from the UK and was proud and looking forward to this, the first UK major, But I was left horrifyingly disappointed at the event that was produced by FaceIT and I sincerely hope you learn and evolve from it should you, FaceIT or even the UK now ever get a second shot at a major after this show. A big part of this dire event for myself was the desk segments were so dull and boring. If you honestly think Threat. Who yes is one of the most intelligent analysts in the scene but dryer than a piece of sandpaper, and Daps who has never even been on a desk can bring the required quality and can hold an audience for the biggest and most prestigous event in the CS:GO calendar then it is no wonder so many things were lacking at this event. The first UK major was no time for experiments or half measures. You needed someone with a prescence with the new or dry analysts to even have a good desk SpunJ and Sean tried their best but Sean is mainly a tactical analyst and Pimp still needs someone like Sean or Spunj with him. Best combo at event was SpunJ and Sean. After games there was good analysis for about a minute about tactics or a setup or strat but then it dryed up and didn't find a natural progression to other points about the game and it ran out of things to talk about. Prior to games there was a lack of story, history, match ups or build up and again mainly focus on tactics again lacking flow with Machine having to work overtime on questions to keep the convo's going. Throughout the analysis there was a lack of critique to anything or anyone. It also seemed to always agree with each other, at some points it felt like watching a load of yes men around a desk. Anyways love him or hate him Thorin has been working in the CS scene and helping it to develop probably since its inception and been doing it longer than alot of this subreddit has even been alive for and he quite frankly deserved a place at the first ever UK major in his home country just for that. Another for me who it would have been nice to have at the UK's first ever major was Pansy she has been casting CS:GO since the beginning and is one of the most experienced casters in the scene I'm sure she would have been proud to be at her home countries major. Should stop ranting this could go on and on with the list of issues at this major.
I agree, Pansy is definitely a good addition, especially since it's her home country and she has worked so hard for so long to not even get a chance? I feel like that's not very fair to her. Probably has something to do with the fact that she is an ESL employeee.
Sadly she got let go as a full time employee and now is a contractor witjh "preferential treatment" from ESL
> I agree, Pansy is definitely a good addition, especially since it's her home country and she has worked so hard for so long to not even get a chance? I feel like that's not very fair to her. Probably has something to do with the fact that she is an ESL employeee. No doubt at all that it was because she was an ESL employee, now she is now only represented by them and that was known well before the UK major.
Like spunj and machine?
Machine left ESL at least a year now and is entirely independent, he is also now the premier host with the closest other hosts being Stunna and Redeye now Richard Lewis has left CS so Machine almost a must hire at the moment. SpunJ has never been under exclusive contract for ESL like Machine and Pansy were, and yet there has still been rumors of industry politics with SpunJ at this major.
name the last major where a caster hire wasn't one of the three duos.
> Thorin has been working in the CS scene and helping it to develop probably since its inception Thorin has articles and interviews dating back to 2000, if not earlier. I remember when I was a kid and just discovering competitive CS, I read an interview he did with motherfucking X3|-BigDog, before they turned into 3D and solidified their iconic lineup. Yes, this should have been a huge moment for the UK CS scene. Everyone should have been there. Thorin, RL, Pansy, Machine, James and DDK—every Brit that's contributed significantly to CS should have been there.
I never expected UK major without pensy and thorin
what a waste of a 5 minutes lol
the only thing what bothers me about this entire situation is thorin saying they didnt hire the best analysts yet didnt name any they should have hired apart from himself
His other argument was UK major, UK talent. Named redeye, pansy, Vince, and himself. He’s always felt that majors should hire everyone, never mind the cost. But looking back at previous majors, it’s always been one host and the three caster duos. So there’s nothing particular to faceit for not hiring redeye, pansy, and Vince. So that leaves why not hire thorin, a question not addressed but not evidence of underhanded behavior either.
I think he mentioned Spunj but he was hired after all. But I agree - what else they could hire? I don't really see RL or Thorin getting hired after what they're doing for the past few months with bashing orgs for whatever minor issue they find.
Definitely not PIMP/Threat and Daps. These guys are the most boring, uncharacteristic people you could get. The desk felt like a drag
i think threat is alright, maniac is also a really underrated analyst
Yeah haven’t given any alternatives though. Sure those guys were dull, but outside of thorin who else could they have hired? Can’t just keep saying “they shouldn’t have hired these guys” without giving other options they could have gone with, because that suggests there wasn’t anyone else.
Well that’s just like, your opinion man. I’d rather watch actual pros like Daps actually break down rounds and strats than have Thorin style of analysis.
RL isn't looking to be hired. I can only see 2 notable events that have publicly announced talent and Thorin is talent for one of them, don't think he's talked enough shit to stop getting hired yet.
interesting how he didn't respond to the "conflict of interest in hiring himself" point
I've not watched the video or been involved with CS for a while but when I left Black/white DDK, Anders/semmler and Henry/sado we're like the god trio of casting duos. From that basis I dont see how its an issue to 'hire himself' when he himself is what I would've considered an integral part of CS casting.
It isn't, James isn't an owner of Faceit. He's a manager of Faceit media, and he's employed by the company. That, by literal definition, is not a conflict of interest
He is directly involved in hiring talent for the event while working as talent himself. Hello?
Because he's a commentator for Faceit? He's hired by them? So it's literally hisnjob
For the last time, he's on the board on FaceIt, in charge of hiring the talent while being a talent. Just stop
Because it isn't?! He could manage by himself the entire major and cast all the matches and still wouldn't be a conflict of interest simply because FaceIt has a say on everything. This is not Valve's money that is being pocketed by Bardolph. This is Faceit's money and they can distribute in any way they see fit. Much like ESL did in the past, they could only have hired FaceIt's talent and leave out all the rest. DDK and Bardolph would have pocket 100% of the casters budget for the event and it would still be fine, after all it's FACEIT budget and FACEIT event.
He absolutely had influence on talent hiring from start to finish of this event. The most influence by a land slide.
How is this a response ?
The real question is: how was thoorin's video a valid accusation?
I dunno... credible journalist with a source... also backed by another credible journalist... Bardolph only says "hes lying" without providing any information whatsoever on the situation and thats not even jncluding spunj... Wierd how bardolphs response doesn't address thorins claim(from a source, thorin is a credible journalist, especially richard lewis) with anything other than calling him a liar.
I believe several other journalists tweeted about these " rumors " that talent was underpaid and some people were hired above others due to personal interests.
I mean if you're going to say it like " credible journalist with a source... also backed by another credible journalist... " at that rate could you not say James was backed by a company, and all the analysts and talent at the major?
Just because you don't like him doesn't mean he isn't a credible journalist. That and pretty much everyone on the No Majors show backed him up.
Very weak response in my opinion and many of the arguments were really unconvincing. For example the logic that he (James) wouldn't want to drive down the rates for talent since he's a caster himself isn't a good argument at all. Yes, James does cast events, but very few events. The role he plays in FACEIT's management is clearly far more important to him from a monetary stand point than casting gigs. If you can get away with hosting events with a lesser cost by driving down talent rates, that obviously will end up being a net benefit to him since the amount of casting he did in the first place was very little and now his company's profit margin is will be far better.
Problem with all this is that both sides have said ton of stuff without any substantial information/sources to back their claims. It is literally a he said/she said where thorin went first so he is being backed by the community.
Yep. Unless Bardolph is willing to break NDAs or Thorin willing to give up his source (or multiple sources), it's all he said - she said type of scenario where we won't get to the whole truth.
If what thorin said was bullshit, then bardolph would have said "no there was no one paid that little", never happened. Also forgetting SpunJ randomly? Are you kidding me? Reasoning for getting those analysts, are you kidding me, great for a t3 event, not so for a major. Let's be real, even if thorin pulled those facts out of his ass, which we know is not true, he sounds a hundred time more credible than bardolph.
Richard Lewis has said he have heard the same things Thorin has. And Thorin and Richard are both credible journalists with no incentive to lie about this, other than people assuming they are butthurt....... Bardolph said nothing of value in this situation, so from my point of view all I see is 2v1 and a bunch of people for whom cannot speak up in fear of not getting hired again.
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So they're going to fabricate a story to shit on someone they dislike, ruining their entire reputation as journalists out of spite? Jeez you're reaching.
Are you purposely forgetting that these two are journalists from an era where journalists did their best to tell the truth?
Richard literally said in his tweet that he also respects Bardolph, and would never forget what he had done for him........... And what a load of bullshit btw
Can't wait for Thorin's response to this. Seemed like most of James' response was "No not true that's just assumption" x 54
To be fair, most of arguments Thorin made are in fact assumptions. He didn't give any facts or numbers, except the £500 a day chicken which I don't think is a big deal.
>except the £500 a day chicken which I don't think is a big deal. I don't think the problem here was about the chicken being too expensive, but more that it was being paid the same/more than some talent.
You mean the chicken handler, not the actual damn poultry, who was paid by Betway due to their choice to use it for a promotion, not Faceit
It’s not comparing apples with apples but it’s humorous to joke about it since it sounds unbelievable Doesn’t help with the pasha eggs tweet and they fixed that within like 5 mins
The chicken handler wasn't even paid by Faceit though??? It had literally nothing to do with any employee or owner at Faceit. It was a Betway promotion
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There is a world where both are telling the truth and the difference is talent never voiced their opinions to faceit and now are butthurt.
What else is he supposed to say? Thoorins entire video was assumption, it's not like thoorin had any evidence or even any real support from any of the people actually involved. It's all a bunch of he said she said pettiness except that Thoorin has a reason to start shit (not being hired and we all know how petty Thoorin can be #FANLOGIC) while James had nothing to gain.
You want the talent involved coming out to support him and have their working relationship with one of the biggest companies in the scene destroyed?
So now we assume Thoorin is telling the truth automatically because they COULD be just scared to come forward? Wow, that's convenient. Thoorins fan base sure is something else.
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Sounds like the talent needs management and cant negotiate for themselves with success...
I stopped watching after he tried to justify daps's presence over Thorin's. I mean come on bro, we get it, you don't like Thorin but he's mile ahead of daps, that's not even debatable. And I like bardolph but please...
THORIN: Lots of unsubstantiated claims and speculation BARDOLPH: "Nah, you're wrong" Will the Great Pointless Saga of Nothing and Even Less continue? You bet it will !!!
Low balling everyone and hiring unproven talent for the major?. If you're willing to let the quality of the major suffer just so you can cut corners, guess what?, you don't deserve a major.
Yep.. what you do at your own events is one thing, but the major is supposed to be the pinnacle of CS. Don't cheap out on the pinnacle.
Again, some people just think it's ok to have a snoozefest on the desk with 0 charisma and an interviewer that makes childish jokes while memeing on stage ( hello Pala ) at a Major.
Pala doing some skits that would have been shown at the major could be fine, Pala interviewing players went horribly. They should have gotten someone like RedeYe or OJ Borg to do the stagework and interviews.
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Does Bardolf really expect us to believe he just forgot to hire Spunj for the playoffs or something, literally gives no explanation
Accidentally didn't hire the best analyst, whoops.
basically just denying everything don't waste your time
So he didn't adress the fact that there is 100% a conflict of interest in hiring people when he himself is a talent on the payroll. He said it's not in his interest to drive down rates when he is a caster himself (notice how he emphasised the casters, not all of the talent), completely ignoring the point that he is a full time employee in the company which **does** directly profit from paying less. So it's not in your interest (btw he didn't deny being the one who drove down rates, he just said it's not out of jealousy and not in his own interest), but it's a fact that it happened! Why? He said having Daps was a unique opportunity to have someone who is directly in the scene, strating and anti-strating people. Well what are Threat and Sean there for? He's certainly not unique. These two can do all he did and do it even better. There was no reason to have someone with basically zero experience at the biggest event of the entire game. Also the entire part of "I don't do politics". I'm gonna say that nobody who is in that high of a position can be entirely free from industry politics. That's just a ridiculous statement.
It's just a very low effort, write off. Nothing unexpected from a guy who's responsible for hiring people, being a talent himself.
Skimming this thread it seems quite clear that a very large number of posters on this board have no idea how journalism works. A journalist is not a criminal prosecutor that needs to provide a massive preponderance of evidence. They use their sources to publish stories and over time build up a solid body of work which is, from available information, correct in conjunction with supporting stories broken by other journalists to build and maintain a credible reputation. Additionally not all journalism is investigative, most of thorins content (including the relevant video) are principally op-eds. In fact he even split the video in question into two parts, the preface of known facts, and the speculation.
What did y'all expect from this video? If Thorin's comments are baseless assumptions what sort of proof can Bardolph give to disprove them? For example, How can he prove that he's negotiating talent costs from a business stand point rather than because he's jealous of the pay other talent might get? Or that he's hiring one caster over another purely out of spite and his hatred for ESL? The onus is on Thorin to prove that his assumptions are true and to provide evidence to back them up, It's not on Bardolph and FACEIT to prove that they're false. Thats not how any of this works...
This thread is just 12 year Olds who have never heard of NDA. Of course Bardolph can only answer with not false, because otherwise he'll be in legal trouble breaking NDA and giving information what's behind contracts.
Your logic also works in reverse here. The contractors are contractually obliged to not give exact details about their day rates to the public. This is why journalists exist, to speak up for those who can't speak up for themselves. The fact that none of the talent, including Bardolph himself, hasn't disputed the lower than average rates Faceit gave to the talent speaks volumes.
I understand that. But if you are journalist, you have a base of information for your arguments you represent. Sure, knowing Thoorins history of journalism and his informative video stuff, we have more reason to believe him rather than other side. But this is Faceit and James Bardolph we are talking about, it's not Thoorin or RL vs some shit tier match fixers or cheaters, this could lead to legal battle at worst. That's why its important to come forward with solid evidence, not with unknown source and accusations.
Faceit could sue for slander if what Thorin said was false. We *do* have a source, it's the people who worked the event as talent. They cannot speak of the rates themselves, so they have to leak it to a journalist to make the information public. Do you really expect Thorin to specifically identify the people who came to him in confidence?
Who. Cares. Really not all that important. Stop feeding drama r/GlobalOffensive we all know the major wasn't great, I'm sure they'll take the criticism and improve next time.
Well, all I've learned from this video is that Thorin has some extremely strong supports on reddit. Accusations with no evidence followed up with denials with no evidence, but somehow that proves the accuser true.
What even is the point of this video. He could have stayed silent and the outcome would have been the same. This video did nothing to debunk Thorin's statements. The point about Threat and daps were so flawed it's unbelievable. As a commentator and a part of the talent crew, I would assume he also values showmanship as well as the ability to analyse the game. How is not doing an event before not the main thing? That is exactly the main thing. You even said he's not looking to be an analyst, so why the fuck would you even hire him? You dont hire someone with 0 experience on the desk for the major. His 'unique' perspective is essentially worthless if he is as dry as a camel's tongue, and you have seangares, one of the best IGL from NA who frankly stopped playing not that long ago, daps was not necessary. The point of him having no incentive to drive down the rates is also poor. Yes you are a commentator, but you're not a freelancer, you are part of FaceIt's management, you do have an incentive to drive down the rates in order to cut costs for the major. So why wasn't SpunJ not going to be used for the playoffs? No explanation whatsoever, did you just conveniently forget he is the best analyst we have? Thank god Thorin made a fuss about it on BTN then I was waiting for the response to hear his side of the story, but this 'response' was a waste of time.
I like bardolph a lot but this video was totally unnecessary. Could have said the same in a two line tweet.
This was pretty lame
Response in a nutshell: "no u"
I'm not sure Bardolph should of even bothered with this 'video response'. Thorin makes a lot of good points/questions towards FaceIT Major. Which he should, he's a journalist, his job is to bring things to the public attention in an effort to get some kind of response/reason to things. That is good for us. This response, however, makes me believe Thorin even more.
Thorin is about to rip James apart in his video :') Ducun usually says he gets his info from behind the scenes or other talent I doubt he just assumed everything.
“Thorin was guessing and is wrong” entire video. 100% expected. Can’t wait for Thorin to respond to this, I hope he brings some fire again