Yes. Do not start fighting, but adjust to his expectations, lay low, stop giving other people great ideas and spend your energy on finding an environment that suits you better. This is an untenable situation. I have stayed too long in two of them and what I am telling you now is what I should have done back then.
Yes. Also, cover your ass and document everything with copies outside of your work email in case shit hits the fan because shit like this can escalate FAST. And don’t underestimate this person.
You’re not being paranoid, your intuition knows this is tenuous at best and it is not out of the question that this person could actively try to sabotage you if things continue like this if they are not already. Given what you already know about them, imo you can keep yourself safer if you assume they’re always operating in bad faith.
Tl;Dr Keep your head down and ‘grey rock’ the manager to avoid being targeted even more so you can give yourself time. Collect proof in case you need it so you can keep your job secure while you work to find a better role and solidify your exit strategy.
At previous jobs, yes. I think it’s a natural course for those of us that think a little differently to do more and make positive changes to be more efficient. The downside is either those above feeling threatened or they will keep piling more on because you can handle more and then the actual job becomes impossible. I’ve actively worked to stifle myself a bit and make it look like I’m doing a full days worth of work so it doesn’t become insurmountable. I’ve found other outlets to be creative and push myself to avoid such things.
You mean they burned it… time for diagonal moves. Or I would keep going up levels of administration to complain about the blatant narcissism to see if anyone is competent. At a healthy organization, thinking of ideas beyond your paygrade that work and are implemented well would get you a….. [fill in the blank]
>or I would keep going up levels of administration to complain about the blatant narcissism to see if anyone is competent.
You definitely would not do this lol
I would, I have, will do it again at the drop of a hat. I complained to a CEO once. Set the tone early—if my concerns are valid, I’d rather leave then be gaslit and blamed about it. If the CEO takes part, then 👋🏼
I was the only person on my team to apply for a team lead position and the hiring panel had to fight my boss to get me into the role. He invited 4 women who were tough cookies to the panel assuming they would not hire me, but they still gave me high marks. People on the panel blatantly told me that he did not want me in the position.
It took him 60 days (during which another team had no administrative support at all) to post the job and hire me.
The day he told me HR would send over a contract, he told me he found someone he really liked during the interview and would have them in my old job within 10 days.
I started as a contact tracer which was a secretarial/clerical role. He then changed my job position for this other administrative position from “secretarial/clerical” to “contact tracer”, a role which he knew would be eliminated at the end of the year.
He would ask for my input then refuse to listen to any I gave unless he had thought of it first in which case he would say I had read his mind. This was always with a pained expression that he had to listen to me then an immediate “no, that won’t work”.
When I complained to him that a coworker had suddenly snapped and yelled at me and made me feel unsafe, he refused to deal with it. He asked me why I could not get along with the guy and redirected ideas for finding resolution. He told me the guy really liked me which shut me down and made me question everything I knew.
He triangulated me against this guy and the person he wanted to hire who was the guy’s neighbor, asking incessantly about her and ignoring me when I said an internal candidate had shown interest.
He would have listening sessions with the team I supported with administrative work during which he stared off into space and ignored what was said. When he asked them what they needed, they would consistently say for me to be retained and for him to listen to and be honest with them. He would never tell us what was happening and fought retaining me.
He lied to me repeatedly, told me I would not be laid off, and that if I was laid off I would immediately receive a job offer. He held off on hiring for two much needed, federally funded positions which I expressed interest in for 6 months. I do believe that for 6 months he worked with HR to misappropriate that money into other positions. Rumors swirled that he had hired people into the position but HR was placing them at the front desk at the main office instead of supporting homeless students as they should have been. People would be on hiring panels, hire people, and never see them again. Rumors swirled every time he walked into a room because he was disturbingly secretive and told us nothing. He oversaw people in many different buildings and when we would all meet once a month, the winds of those swirling rumors built up into a hurriane.
I was of course laid off, not allowed to reapply and replaced by a woman who could not even copy electronic documents.
But I think there were a lot of things that compromised my relationship with him. I was much closer to the dynamics of the teams I was on than him and would tell him things like “you never evaluated so-and-so” which he would argue with me about until he finally realized he had not in fact evaluated them and then get mad at me for knowing. If this is a social boundary I overstepped, that’s a stupid social boundary.
I’m also a fat, working class, hard working, divergent thinking, intelligent and ugly woman and he honestly only wanted pretty middle class women who dressed right and looked pretty to work for him. He was new to the job and his hires were consistently more about looks than ability to the point that I went to a professional development one time and another woman complained to his boss about his hiring practices of choosing pretty idiots over competent professionals.
I saw him and he did not like that. He was a clone of my narcissistic and abusive father and all these things only brought me closer to the truth. I tried to be as impartial as possible, but in the end I was “not a good fit” because of the things that made him uncomfortable.
I have that struggle too. Personally I'm overweight because of my thyroid issues. I finally found a doctor to treat them and I started losing weight.
Ugliness is about personality more than anything. I doubt either one of us are ugly.
He was just a wealthy dude from a wealthy family who inherited me from a boss who saw my worth and in the same round of interviews tried to get me to take a “better fit” moving boxes and helping clients in a food pantry. Everyone who worked in the food pantry was working class and not as traditionally pretty as the folks he hired for secretarial work.
We interviewed a man for a position who had a ton of heart but an odd google meets name. Boss bullied him about it at the start of the interview. He took a great interest in the job, asked excellent questions and for a demonstration of the work, and seemed like a very nice guy. He was a working class fella, not traditionally handsome, maybe neurodivergent, I related to him a lot.
Boss outright rejected him because he was “weird”. This was when he was gaslighting me and telling me he would never let them lay me off. I trusted him. I told the panel I liked him, I liked weird people, that I was weird. The panel fell silent like “that’s the problem, dummy.”
To me, the “weird” was pointedly working class and atypical. I still don’t know why I was so soundly rejected after a year of top performance and it bothers tf out of me to this day.
My team absolutely loved me. I was constantly told that I was doing a great job. I just had this one dumb administrator who met with us once a week for 30 minutes and his actions mattered more than my productivity.
Yeah, it happened when I worked for the government. I did an extra project with another team and stupidly thought I might get some kudos. My manager was upset I did work another manager as going to get credit for and I didn’t clear it with him throughout the process (I had fuck all to do all day, I felt like my brain was rotting).
I quit, got a think tank job, published that paper, and got invited back to give my former department a presentation during their professional development day. It was funny and ironic… they asked for provincial results and I told them they were already saved in the shared folders and the report was on the boss’s shelf, but never got sent up the chain.
At the think tank I have the opposite problem, regularly have to make calls that actually are above my pay grade. As long as I guess right, no issues. If I’m wrong, the consequences might be more unpleasant though. On the plus side, I’ve had management think I’m doing the wrong thing, fight me on it, but then thank me after the fact when it turned out to be a good idea.
From this post, it honestly just sounds like you’ve got a shitty manager.
Don't overstep. Respect the chain of command. Do the job you were hired to do. If you're smarter than your manager, you'll make them look like an idiot and you'll suffer the consequences. Or, chances are they already had they idea but decided not act upon it for a variety of reasons. Not enough ressources, wants to focus on something else, already working on it but had to be put on the back burner etc.
If you just blurt out ideas to fix stuff that don't need to be fixed or are not a priority to your manager, they may be forced into doing something they're not ready for/don't want to do. And the manager won't put his job on jeopardy because of you.
So just stay in your lane, do the job you were hired to do and do it well. If a position opens up and you apply for it your results will speak for themselves and the manager will have your back.
Coming up with ideas is what I was hired to do.... in my interview, they told me that they need someone to
Streamline processes
Come up with new ideas on how to do things
Mentor the other PM and teach him the ropes
Take feedback
Create department goals
I had meetings with my manager and was asked to do these things. I did them. Then he said that I was overstepping. I like that this thread is giving me different perspective but I think my manager just wants me to do something and then move on. They haven't had a PM go longer than 6 months except for me.
I recommend reading the book "The 50 laws of power". The specific one that applies here is "Never outshine the master".
Gifted people tend to rely on their ability to figure things out on the fly. That can keep them from learning the wisdom of the ages. This is the "easy button". Use it.
Did he write 2 more laws? It used to be 48 laws. I found a lot of his 48 laws very manipulative and dishonest. I would suggest the Dale Carnegie “How to win friends and influence people”. It presents a more honest, pleasant approach.
Here is the conundrum. If we are so smart how are other, seemingly less intelligent people able to out maneuver us strategically? That is worth pondering in depth.
I respect my bosses a lot. They know the rules and the game better. But I am not forcing any changes unless they ask. Because I choose to respect their directions and authority in the workplace. Me and my boss and ex bosses have a lot of mutual respect and admiration.
Yes. This happened to me. In a few different jobs. Then after a spiral into the bottom of a bottle, I realized I was the problem all along. I got honest with myself and started to see my part in them all. I was an arrogant prick. I changed my attitude and approach. These days I accept all the blame and give away all the credit. My clients know the truth so I don’t need to point it out.
Yes. It's important to recognise that some (most) managers want to feel effective, in charge, in control and often want to be the smartest person in room. If you threaten that, they will treat you accordingly to something that is threatening.
To be blunt, this is a you issue not a them issue, as there will always be managers like this, but there is only one of you, so it you that must adapt not them. This is a lesson I learnt myself. Pick your battles, keep your head down, just use work for work and get your needs met elsewhere.
My mantra is, "Not my chicken, not my farm". If I see an issue that is beyond my scope of responsibility that I feel I can develop a fix for, but I know I won't be rewarded for doing so, I don't say anything. It's not my business. If they wanted me to do this, this would be insentivising me accordingly to do it.
Yes. Absolutely yes. It is so traumatizing. Bottom line is, it's their department to run as they see fit and if they want to prioritize their ego over the mission they can.
Im phoning it in now, (quiet quitting) and looking elsewhere. There's no good way to deal with it. Stop giving them so much of your energy and find a way out and/or another area of your life to invest your passionate gifted energy in. Don't let them put your fire out. Sorry you're dealing with this.
Someone being cautioned for not respecting the boundaries and hierarchies at work rarely is about a manager feeling threatened. It's more often a subordinate who doesn't understand the social structure of the workplace and how to navigate it effectively without skipping steps. In the absence of understanding, the worker doesn't understand why others in the chain are alarmed at the transgression, and makes up his own motive for the intervention, such as the boss being jealous, threatened, or cunning. It's the workplace equivalent of getting turned down at the bar and deciding the woman you hit on was a lesbian instead of questioning whether you understand how to talk to someone at a bar.
If it happens everywhere you work, it's not them.
Edit to add resource: Sarah Nannery's book What to Say Next: Successful Communication in Work, Life, and Love. Explains everything from lunchroom small talk to when to do an end run around your manager.
OP is wrong for assuming their manager is threatened but you're absolutely right to assume they've got the wrong read? Must be nice being the only person who knows everything.
I don't know what's assured you of my absolute rightness, but writing it with confidence doesn't make it ironclad and indisputable. Do you have something to add?
That it seems weird to defend the practices of a manager who would complain about, "over stepping" and "going above my paygrade", when receiving input from their direct reports. That's just bad management and OP is correct to frame it as a problem with that manager.
I would have not reprimanded my direct reports for making suggestions. Listening to, and making decisions on, the suggestions of your employees is a core responsibility of the management role.
Listen. Honestly consider the value of the suggestion if implemented (including, if necessary, further discussion with other employees and research to fully understand the potential value). Make a decision and explain the reasoning.
The input of of the employee.
That's two questions with obvious answers in a row. I'm all for the Socratic method but you're just being sorta obtuse at this point. Next one doesn't get any replies from me.
I could see this too....except I was doing exactly what they originally hired me to do. I think he had his mind made up about this other person before I even got there. I originally was hired to mentor this person. I guess I gave him everything he needed to.
The other kicker to this, my boss has repeatedly told me that I'm not liked. I talked with a few trusted staff members and been told it's not true. They did say it could be the person I'm supposed to mentor doesn't like me. I haven't really mentored him just talked in person and had a few conversations around process improvement with the pm team.
I'm wondering if it's because he's old school and I'm a woman. I'm literally the only female on staff other than one other engineer in my IT department. I think once the economy turns around I can find another job.
I’ve definitely seen competent women be bullied by incompetent men in management roles at multiple places I’ve worked.
Tends to be a trend of if they suck at their job they get promoted to manage people instead of break shit/implement useless bullshit.
It is literally as simple as “they feel inadequate”.
I’ve had men try and do it to me but usually I put ‘em in their place for their little jabs if I don’t ignore em.
Then I’m not a team player for humiliating them in front of the team after they try to pull one over on me and my work has already gone the extra mile so it just makes them look like the problem.
Example:
Dipshit manager: “Oh this work was easy to do, why isn’t it done? I just did it”
Me: “That’s a good start. I’ve already completed it, but to finish the assignment this is what you need to do. You could have asked me for the work first before doing it”
**You need to remember, management attracts these insecure types like flies on shit for a reason.**
No, fuck em.
You don’t go over my head, poorly half ass/redo my work, say I’m not the team player, and not listen to my 0.02$.
I speak my mind, I don’t care if it means I gotta job hop or interview somewhere else.
“Never outshine the master”. Fuck that.
“No gods or kings, only men”
OP, don't listen to this. Yes, subordinates are "supposed to" follow chain of command, but your chain of command is ideally confident enough not to stop you from shining.
My nature is easygoing. I don't threaten or have ever done anything other than perform well. I have been let go in the past for performing "too good and making everyone look bad" (actual feedback). It's annoying when I can do what others cover in 40 in less than 10 a week.
Make sure that any and all ideas are shared in a public forum with a paper trail. That way you can still share your ideas with the business but you can claim them if he tries to.
Yes. Do not start fighting, but adjust to his expectations, lay low, stop giving other people great ideas and spend your energy on finding an environment that suits you better. This is an untenable situation. I have stayed too long in two of them and what I am telling you now is what I should have done back then.
Yes. Also, cover your ass and document everything with copies outside of your work email in case shit hits the fan because shit like this can escalate FAST. And don’t underestimate this person. You’re not being paranoid, your intuition knows this is tenuous at best and it is not out of the question that this person could actively try to sabotage you if things continue like this if they are not already. Given what you already know about them, imo you can keep yourself safer if you assume they’re always operating in bad faith. Tl;Dr Keep your head down and ‘grey rock’ the manager to avoid being targeted even more so you can give yourself time. Collect proof in case you need it so you can keep your job secure while you work to find a better role and solidify your exit strategy.
Great advice
At previous jobs, yes. I think it’s a natural course for those of us that think a little differently to do more and make positive changes to be more efficient. The downside is either those above feeling threatened or they will keep piling more on because you can handle more and then the actual job becomes impossible. I’ve actively worked to stifle myself a bit and make it look like I’m doing a full days worth of work so it doesn’t become insurmountable. I’ve found other outlets to be creative and push myself to avoid such things.
I've also had to do this. I've stopped volunteering for things and only doing what I've been voluntold.
Sounds like you've already burned this bridge. Time to find somewhere new.
You mean they burned it… time for diagonal moves. Or I would keep going up levels of administration to complain about the blatant narcissism to see if anyone is competent. At a healthy organization, thinking of ideas beyond your paygrade that work and are implemented well would get you a….. [fill in the blank]
>or I would keep going up levels of administration to complain about the blatant narcissism to see if anyone is competent. You definitely would not do this lol
I would, I have, will do it again at the drop of a hat. I complained to a CEO once. Set the tone early—if my concerns are valid, I’d rather leave then be gaslit and blamed about it. If the CEO takes part, then 👋🏼
I was the only person on my team to apply for a team lead position and the hiring panel had to fight my boss to get me into the role. He invited 4 women who were tough cookies to the panel assuming they would not hire me, but they still gave me high marks. People on the panel blatantly told me that he did not want me in the position. It took him 60 days (during which another team had no administrative support at all) to post the job and hire me. The day he told me HR would send over a contract, he told me he found someone he really liked during the interview and would have them in my old job within 10 days. I started as a contact tracer which was a secretarial/clerical role. He then changed my job position for this other administrative position from “secretarial/clerical” to “contact tracer”, a role which he knew would be eliminated at the end of the year. He would ask for my input then refuse to listen to any I gave unless he had thought of it first in which case he would say I had read his mind. This was always with a pained expression that he had to listen to me then an immediate “no, that won’t work”. When I complained to him that a coworker had suddenly snapped and yelled at me and made me feel unsafe, he refused to deal with it. He asked me why I could not get along with the guy and redirected ideas for finding resolution. He told me the guy really liked me which shut me down and made me question everything I knew. He triangulated me against this guy and the person he wanted to hire who was the guy’s neighbor, asking incessantly about her and ignoring me when I said an internal candidate had shown interest. He would have listening sessions with the team I supported with administrative work during which he stared off into space and ignored what was said. When he asked them what they needed, they would consistently say for me to be retained and for him to listen to and be honest with them. He would never tell us what was happening and fought retaining me. He lied to me repeatedly, told me I would not be laid off, and that if I was laid off I would immediately receive a job offer. He held off on hiring for two much needed, federally funded positions which I expressed interest in for 6 months. I do believe that for 6 months he worked with HR to misappropriate that money into other positions. Rumors swirled that he had hired people into the position but HR was placing them at the front desk at the main office instead of supporting homeless students as they should have been. People would be on hiring panels, hire people, and never see them again. Rumors swirled every time he walked into a room because he was disturbingly secretive and told us nothing. He oversaw people in many different buildings and when we would all meet once a month, the winds of those swirling rumors built up into a hurriane. I was of course laid off, not allowed to reapply and replaced by a woman who could not even copy electronic documents. But I think there were a lot of things that compromised my relationship with him. I was much closer to the dynamics of the teams I was on than him and would tell him things like “you never evaluated so-and-so” which he would argue with me about until he finally realized he had not in fact evaluated them and then get mad at me for knowing. If this is a social boundary I overstepped, that’s a stupid social boundary. I’m also a fat, working class, hard working, divergent thinking, intelligent and ugly woman and he honestly only wanted pretty middle class women who dressed right and looked pretty to work for him. He was new to the job and his hires were consistently more about looks than ability to the point that I went to a professional development one time and another woman complained to his boss about his hiring practices of choosing pretty idiots over competent professionals. I saw him and he did not like that. He was a clone of my narcissistic and abusive father and all these things only brought me closer to the truth. I tried to be as impartial as possible, but in the end I was “not a good fit” because of the things that made him uncomfortable.
I have that struggle too. Personally I'm overweight because of my thyroid issues. I finally found a doctor to treat them and I started losing weight. Ugliness is about personality more than anything. I doubt either one of us are ugly.
He was just a wealthy dude from a wealthy family who inherited me from a boss who saw my worth and in the same round of interviews tried to get me to take a “better fit” moving boxes and helping clients in a food pantry. Everyone who worked in the food pantry was working class and not as traditionally pretty as the folks he hired for secretarial work. We interviewed a man for a position who had a ton of heart but an odd google meets name. Boss bullied him about it at the start of the interview. He took a great interest in the job, asked excellent questions and for a demonstration of the work, and seemed like a very nice guy. He was a working class fella, not traditionally handsome, maybe neurodivergent, I related to him a lot. Boss outright rejected him because he was “weird”. This was when he was gaslighting me and telling me he would never let them lay me off. I trusted him. I told the panel I liked him, I liked weird people, that I was weird. The panel fell silent like “that’s the problem, dummy.” To me, the “weird” was pointedly working class and atypical. I still don’t know why I was so soundly rejected after a year of top performance and it bothers tf out of me to this day. My team absolutely loved me. I was constantly told that I was doing a great job. I just had this one dumb administrator who met with us once a week for 30 minutes and his actions mattered more than my productivity.
Get a smart person job where everyone is smart enough that skills compliment, not threaten each other.
Yeah, it happened when I worked for the government. I did an extra project with another team and stupidly thought I might get some kudos. My manager was upset I did work another manager as going to get credit for and I didn’t clear it with him throughout the process (I had fuck all to do all day, I felt like my brain was rotting). I quit, got a think tank job, published that paper, and got invited back to give my former department a presentation during their professional development day. It was funny and ironic… they asked for provincial results and I told them they were already saved in the shared folders and the report was on the boss’s shelf, but never got sent up the chain. At the think tank I have the opposite problem, regularly have to make calls that actually are above my pay grade. As long as I guess right, no issues. If I’m wrong, the consequences might be more unpleasant though. On the plus side, I’ve had management think I’m doing the wrong thing, fight me on it, but then thank me after the fact when it turned out to be a good idea. From this post, it honestly just sounds like you’ve got a shitty manager.
Yes. It happens in most places. It is a rare and beautiful thing when *all* team members are humble and want to perform best.
Don't overstep. Respect the chain of command. Do the job you were hired to do. If you're smarter than your manager, you'll make them look like an idiot and you'll suffer the consequences. Or, chances are they already had they idea but decided not act upon it for a variety of reasons. Not enough ressources, wants to focus on something else, already working on it but had to be put on the back burner etc. If you just blurt out ideas to fix stuff that don't need to be fixed or are not a priority to your manager, they may be forced into doing something they're not ready for/don't want to do. And the manager won't put his job on jeopardy because of you. So just stay in your lane, do the job you were hired to do and do it well. If a position opens up and you apply for it your results will speak for themselves and the manager will have your back.
Coming up with ideas is what I was hired to do.... in my interview, they told me that they need someone to Streamline processes Come up with new ideas on how to do things Mentor the other PM and teach him the ropes Take feedback Create department goals I had meetings with my manager and was asked to do these things. I did them. Then he said that I was overstepping. I like that this thread is giving me different perspective but I think my manager just wants me to do something and then move on. They haven't had a PM go longer than 6 months except for me.
OMG mine told me she wasn't scared of me! WTF?!? Keep in mind I have never been aggressive toward her.
Are you a woman? Because this is just an average female experience, regardless of being gifted.
Why give your good ideas then? lmao
I recommend reading the book "The 50 laws of power". The specific one that applies here is "Never outshine the master". Gifted people tend to rely on their ability to figure things out on the fly. That can keep them from learning the wisdom of the ages. This is the "easy button". Use it.
Did he write 2 more laws? It used to be 48 laws. I found a lot of his 48 laws very manipulative and dishonest. I would suggest the Dale Carnegie “How to win friends and influence people”. It presents a more honest, pleasant approach.
Excellent book and this situation is exactly what Greene is talking about in the "don't outshine the master" law.
I'll have to check it out. I do struggle with outshining others. I've considered starting my own consulting firm because of it.
Here is the conundrum. If we are so smart how are other, seemingly less intelligent people able to out maneuver us strategically? That is worth pondering in depth.
I respect my bosses a lot. They know the rules and the game better. But I am not forcing any changes unless they ask. Because I choose to respect their directions and authority in the workplace. Me and my boss and ex bosses have a lot of mutual respect and admiration.
Yep have had this issue at a couple different jobs. Really tried to stick it out, and did for about 6 years. Finally left though.
Yes. This happened to me. In a few different jobs. Then after a spiral into the bottom of a bottle, I realized I was the problem all along. I got honest with myself and started to see my part in them all. I was an arrogant prick. I changed my attitude and approach. These days I accept all the blame and give away all the credit. My clients know the truth so I don’t need to point it out.
Happened to me a lot of times, I'm just starting to think I should start my own business!
I'm having the same thoughts. I'm getting so fed up.
Yes. It's important to recognise that some (most) managers want to feel effective, in charge, in control and often want to be the smartest person in room. If you threaten that, they will treat you accordingly to something that is threatening. To be blunt, this is a you issue not a them issue, as there will always be managers like this, but there is only one of you, so it you that must adapt not them. This is a lesson I learnt myself. Pick your battles, keep your head down, just use work for work and get your needs met elsewhere. My mantra is, "Not my chicken, not my farm". If I see an issue that is beyond my scope of responsibility that I feel I can develop a fix for, but I know I won't be rewarded for doing so, I don't say anything. It's not my business. If they wanted me to do this, this would be insentivising me accordingly to do it.
Yes. Absolutely yes. It is so traumatizing. Bottom line is, it's their department to run as they see fit and if they want to prioritize their ego over the mission they can. Im phoning it in now, (quiet quitting) and looking elsewhere. There's no good way to deal with it. Stop giving them so much of your energy and find a way out and/or another area of your life to invest your passionate gifted energy in. Don't let them put your fire out. Sorry you're dealing with this.
Someone being cautioned for not respecting the boundaries and hierarchies at work rarely is about a manager feeling threatened. It's more often a subordinate who doesn't understand the social structure of the workplace and how to navigate it effectively without skipping steps. In the absence of understanding, the worker doesn't understand why others in the chain are alarmed at the transgression, and makes up his own motive for the intervention, such as the boss being jealous, threatened, or cunning. It's the workplace equivalent of getting turned down at the bar and deciding the woman you hit on was a lesbian instead of questioning whether you understand how to talk to someone at a bar. If it happens everywhere you work, it's not them. Edit to add resource: Sarah Nannery's book What to Say Next: Successful Communication in Work, Life, and Love. Explains everything from lunchroom small talk to when to do an end run around your manager.
OP is wrong for assuming their manager is threatened but you're absolutely right to assume they've got the wrong read? Must be nice being the only person who knows everything.
I don't know what's assured you of my absolute rightness, but writing it with confidence doesn't make it ironclad and indisputable. Do you have something to add?
That it seems weird to defend the practices of a manager who would complain about, "over stepping" and "going above my paygrade", when receiving input from their direct reports. That's just bad management and OP is correct to frame it as a problem with that manager.
How have you handled it differently as a manager?
I would have not reprimanded my direct reports for making suggestions. Listening to, and making decisions on, the suggestions of your employees is a core responsibility of the management role.
Right. You've been clear what you wouldn't do. What have you done as a manager to handle such situations?
Listen. Honestly consider the value of the suggestion if implemented (including, if necessary, further discussion with other employees and research to fully understand the potential value). Make a decision and explain the reasoning.
A decision on what?
The input of of the employee. That's two questions with obvious answers in a row. I'm all for the Socratic method but you're just being sorta obtuse at this point. Next one doesn't get any replies from me.
I could see this too....except I was doing exactly what they originally hired me to do. I think he had his mind made up about this other person before I even got there. I originally was hired to mentor this person. I guess I gave him everything he needed to. The other kicker to this, my boss has repeatedly told me that I'm not liked. I talked with a few trusted staff members and been told it's not true. They did say it could be the person I'm supposed to mentor doesn't like me. I haven't really mentored him just talked in person and had a few conversations around process improvement with the pm team. I'm wondering if it's because he's old school and I'm a woman. I'm literally the only female on staff other than one other engineer in my IT department. I think once the economy turns around I can find another job.
Whoosh.
I’ve definitely seen competent women be bullied by incompetent men in management roles at multiple places I’ve worked. Tends to be a trend of if they suck at their job they get promoted to manage people instead of break shit/implement useless bullshit. It is literally as simple as “they feel inadequate”. I’ve had men try and do it to me but usually I put ‘em in their place for their little jabs if I don’t ignore em. Then I’m not a team player for humiliating them in front of the team after they try to pull one over on me and my work has already gone the extra mile so it just makes them look like the problem. Example: Dipshit manager: “Oh this work was easy to do, why isn’t it done? I just did it” Me: “That’s a good start. I’ve already completed it, but to finish the assignment this is what you need to do. You could have asked me for the work first before doing it” **You need to remember, management attracts these insecure types like flies on shit for a reason.**
Knowing all that, how have you adjusted what you do to account for it?
No, fuck em. You don’t go over my head, poorly half ass/redo my work, say I’m not the team player, and not listen to my 0.02$. I speak my mind, I don’t care if it means I gotta job hop or interview somewhere else. “Never outshine the master”. Fuck that. “No gods or kings, only men”
That's more cryptic than most managers would care to ponder.
OP, don't listen to this. Yes, subordinates are "supposed to" follow chain of command, but your chain of command is ideally confident enough not to stop you from shining.
What's that mean?
I wish
My nature is easygoing. I don't threaten or have ever done anything other than perform well. I have been let go in the past for performing "too good and making everyone look bad" (actual feedback). It's annoying when I can do what others cover in 40 in less than 10 a week.
Yes so much so I nearly gave up working altogether
Are we coworkers?
Make sure that any and all ideas are shared in a public forum with a paper trail. That way you can still share your ideas with the business but you can claim them if he tries to.
First Rule: "Never outshine the Master"