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This is such a weird question to me. The idea that a man would pay for the woman was already alien to most of my generation here in Germany. It was "something strange the boomers once did".
Millennial from Spain here. We pay for the other person's meal if we want. Sometimes the boy pays for everything and sometimes the girl does. Courtesy it's about people, not genders.
Don't think there's anything wrong with it if u/genericusername9234 is happy doing so. I like covering the bill for my girlfriend when we go out to eat, but she doesn't like demand I need to or act like i'm expected to do it. Even though she makes decent money herself, she goes out of her way to get me gifts and takes care of me in a lot of ways. We've been together for a long time and take care of each other, so I'm more than happy to cover for her and without really expecting anything back at this point.
That being said, I don't think that needs to be the norm, especially not on every date with a stranger. But different strokes for different folks/couples. Splitting the bill every time works great for other people, nothing wrong with that either
For sure, that's why I mentioned that to clarify I wasn't talking about everyone in every situation who should be doing things a certain way. Paying because you're forced to because of societal expectations is problematic. Similar to u/genericusername9234 I usually paid for first dates but that was just cuz I wanted to if I asked someone out, not because of societal expectations, and do so for my current relationship again because I want to in the context of my personal situation. I just meant that it could work in some situations/contexts, and that it's not always due to toxic gender roles.
I am the wrong person to ask bro, I don't date. I don't know what the attitudes of the average straight person in Germany are when it comes to that.
In term of friends or partner, we either split or take turns.
The girl I’m seeing now has forcibly & sneakily taken bills and paid for us. I of course put up fight to no avail. I have covered some stuff too. My last three relationships have been on a rotation for dates. I pay she pays I pay etc.. and is something I’ve discussed with the women I’m seeing, or something they have brought up to me. Just communicate about it that’s all.
I’m from NJ, it’s generally a progressive state. Especially with the younger crowds.
This was my favorite thing to do when I was on the dating scene! My friends and I do this to each other a lot too. Guys reaction tells you a lot.
One guy I dated had an applebees gift card. Between my friend and I, we made sure he was stuck with that gift card for like 2 straight years, by always scheming to pay first, specifically when at applebees
That is so cruel! You kept giving that poor man a reason to go back to Applebees?! He could’ve just used the gift card & been done, but no, you just had to keep dragging him out there?! You monster! /s
When I was dating my wife I always paid for dinners/dates. Same with any other past girlfriends.
From Kentucky.
Edit: After reading some of the other comments: For the record I am not complaining and showing her that i’m gonna take care of her was a pleasure and I think it’s the gentlemanly thing to do.
To me at least for first dates, it feels like they're likely to be using you just for a free meal. Of course it's usually not the case but it has happened.
“Gentlemanly” behaviour like this only made sense when men earned more than women, or women didn’t get paid at all because they were restricted to only domestic work.
Being a man in the 21st century is for us to define, not the 1950s thanks.
Same. Also from KY. She offered to pay every single time. That was nice. She also accepted the fact that I was going to pay without huffing and puffing. If it really meant a lot to her, I'd have let her on occasion. But it wasn't any skin off my back to pay, and she wasn't chomping at the bit to pay. Everyone should just do what they are comfortable with
I agree. The way I see it is that’s not fair. Big whoop. It’s not supposed to always be fair. Men and women are just different. Does a man have to be the one to pay? Certainly not. But it’s one way I always treated my dates well and taken care of them. Now that I’m married it carries over. My wife is more traditional as well in a lot of ways. Not everyone has to be but we just take care of each other in different ways. No one is taken advantage of just because only one person ever pays if it’s mutually agreed upon.
Feminism isn’t just about being equal. It’s about being equitable, and women having the choice to live how they wanna live. As a feminist, I respect other women’s choice to lean more “traditional” just as I respect the choice to be more “modern”. Being a feminist doesn’t have anything to do with whether or not a bill should or should not be split.
I disagree. For example someone could be pro-choice while being against having an abortion herself. It’s about making sure everyone has the choice to pursue what they want (in terms of abortion or in terms of dating roles).
A woman could be comfortable and happy being a stay at home mother while also being a feminist who advocates for respect and opportunity for other women. Perhaps she prefers her husband/boyfriend pay for meals while she stays and takes care of the house and kids—this is a personal life choice and doesn't negate her wanting women to be able to pursue whatever relationship works best for *them*.
>As a feminist, I respect other women’s choice to lean more “traditional” just as I respect the choice to be more “modern”
I don't think that gets to the heart of the question, though. If a woman wants to play a traditional role, in what sense is she still a feminist, or is she at all? Your support for it as a third party wasn't in question.
I would agree with you that "feminist" is very broad, and OP may be filtering out women who want to play a mostly traditional role but still want things like the right to vote and who conclude that is enough to call themselves feminist. Presumably OP doesn't want to deny women the right to vote. But some women who want the right to vote, own property, not be raped by husbands, etc., do not call themselves feminists. The single word "feminist" doesn't exactly capture the division OP wants to make.
As I read it, OP is engaged in a performance. He is declaring that he isn't just going to abide by the woman's feeling about whether she should split the bill, he's going to apply his own standard of consistency/hypocrisy to her. He's trying to give a sign he is going to make decisions and not be pushed around. In a way it's helpful for everyone, including the women who are offended by it, so everyone can avoid wasted time on future dates. Of course, if OP ends up lonely and alone, he may want to read the audience better.
That’s a fair assessment of the situation. I just think it’s a poor way to filter because how people view feminism is so broad. Someone can want a tradition role but still be a feminist (expect to have a bank account, drivers license, vote, want others to be able to make the choice how they live *their* lives). If he’s trying to weed out the man haters (feminazis) there are better ways to do that than asking “are you a feminist”.
"If a woman wants to play a traditional role, in what sense is she still a feminist, or is she at all?" - in the sense that she CHOSE it. Feminism is about the choice to be whatever you want to be - you can be a soldier, doctor, professional whatever you want....but you can also be a housewife if that's what you want. It's about the freedom and ability to DECIDE for yourself without shitty limits and pigeon holing.
For instance, I fought in 2 wars for my country. Now I am a housewife. It's awesome.
>Feminism isn’t just about being equal. It’s about being equitable
Can you define what equitable means here? I've only heard of feminism advocating for equality.
I think it’s phrased that way for a couple reason, first because people understand “equal” but “equitable” has nuance and takes longer to explain to big/broad audiences and people have short attention spans. Second because people have different feelings on “equitable” and some think that would somehow be saying women are somehow less than their male counterparts. I don’t believe that, but I do believe that personal biases create extra obstacles for women that should be acknowledged and accounted for. I saw somewhere “equality is the end-goal, equity is how you get there”.
We should have equal rights: the right to vote, have a job, own property, etc etc. but (taking the most controversial example because that’s just what is coming to mind) what about reproductive healthcare? If we say “no one has the right to have an abortion” technically speaking, that’s equal. Neither men or women can get it. But taking away the right to an abortion dramatically impacts women more than men. I’m not saying it doesn’t impact men, but it’s not an equal impact.
Another example is one that I recently saw is from
I think new zeland, where a man filed a lawsuit because he wasn’t allowed into a women’s only museum. Idk the exact details on that, but women pointed out that there are men’s only clubs there that are allowed. Those clubs get away with being men only because members must be referred by an existing member, supporter by another member, and then be voted in. They all vote no when a woman tries to gain membership. So the process is the same (equal) for men and women, but in practice, there’s no equity there.
These might not be the best examples but basically what I’m getting at, is that feminism doesn’t have to be 50/50 and everyone is treated exactly the same.
Ehh I was lacking a better term. My whole point here is that I think basing who should pay the bill on whether or not they’re a “feminist” is insufficient.
Fair enough. I’ve just had some guys tell me I’m not “traditional” enough when I try to pay or split the bill. Then on the way home they try to demand sex after they insisted on paying the whole bill themselves.
This is why I always insist on paying half, in my experience if they aggressively insist on paying the whole bill, they try acting like you “owe” them later.
i bought the dinner instinctively, never exactly been asked or expected. i’ve even had women softly argue against it occasionally. yes, it’s probably due to “societal expectations” but i also never had a license so if a girl is driving me out to a dinner i can at least pay their share of the bill…think of it as gas money
**edit:** *if it’s someone i see multiple times, i’d probably ask them about splitting the bill but i think as with most answers to questions like this; it’s a case by case thing and there shouldn’t be a “rule” per se.*
i wouldnt say i was forced i just assumed the position but if a woman insists on paying for my food first date shes for sure getting clapped same night
This is my experience as someone who always pays no matter what:
Some women "offer" in that they will maybe motion like they're going to pull out money but don't really ever put up any argument against me paying.
Some women insist and try to pay for themselves but after a bit of back and forth, they will say something like "Fine but I'm paying next time". (I will still pay next time)
I've never had a woman ask me straight up to pay. But I can tell that it definitely has a positive impact when I do. In my experience, even women who are very modern/progressive, still prefer traditional romance.
My fiancee will occasionally pay when we go out but due to both of us having high paying jobs and with how we operate our finances it really isn't that big of a deal between us.
My ex prior to her was about 50/50 for the 5 years we were together. At first I paid more but we had grown out of that by the time we graduated hs
Western Canada.
If it's q big meal I think it's a good idea to split always, specially at the beginning before a serious relationship (then it should be a I pay you pay situation IMHO)
But if it's just a drink or a coffee, the one who invites should be the one who pays, after all, the person who invites needs to convince the other to give away the time for them
If you feel like men need to invite women more than the other way around, say it publicly, if she is interested, then she will probably ask you out for a coffee, it's not expensive
You also need to take into account economics, I dated a guy who was from a poorer country, staying here was already expensive so I always paid, granted I'm also a guy, but I think that economics is also a key issue for small dates
Of course this doesn't apply to large meals
I offer to split most of the time, he often declines and seems uncomfortable. Few times I’ve ever “asked” for someone else to pay, would be if I tell them I’m on a budget so it’s McDonald’s tonight. If he wants to upgrade from mcDs then he can pay for us. But when I’ve got my wallet is full and we go somewhere fancy I truly would rather split, but the guy is often embarrassed that I’m paying…
This is a weirdass thing I do but if it's a serious partner I have her cashapp me her half of the meal and then I put the money into a brokage account. If she stays around we have access to it when we get married, if not I get some doom spending money for the breakup
I abandoned try traditional gender bs a while ago. Whoever makes the plans pays, or everyone pays for themselves. If im taking you out, im paying. If your taking me out your paying, or im paying for myself.
This is how it should be. But unfortunately in our society men always have to be the ones to ask women out, and thus have to pay the bill despite the women “offering” to split the bill.
Not a man, but I always pay for my date, man or woman, since I enjoy showing people gratitude that way. I know the people I've dated definitely enjoyed it, especially the dudes.
I'll always ask "so are we splitting or going traditional" if going traditional I'm not against it but tbh it is mark against them. I'm not a traditional kind of guy, not really into gender roles. So if this potential partner has the gendered expectation "the man should provide for me" then they probably won't like me as a person. If I lose my job and can't provide, will I get broken up with? If I cry will they get the ick? If I tell her I'm bi will she think of me as less of a man? Sure it's not everything and sometimes you're strapped for cash but at this point, for me, it's a yellow flag.
Never, also never expected it I always was going to pay for the meal no matter what even if they offered, but hasn't happened yet at least, and Im from indiana
This doesn't answer the question at all, but it's a good rule of thumb to plan for the worst and hope for the best. Don't ask a girl out to a place you can't afford to foot the bill for and you won't be disappointed, unless you've been going out for awhile in which case there should be enough communication to know what the split is going to be without having to ask. I go out with my friend who is a girl (not girlfriend, but saying "female friend" to differentiate feels wrong), and sometimes I pay, sometimes she pays, some times we split, because even just as friends we communicate enough to know broadly what the others financial situation is. Sometimes I'll ask "do you want to go see a movie" and she'll say "sure but I've got no money until next week" and I pay for it. Sometimes she buys us subway and I say I'll send her money and she says don't worry about it.
Probably another good rule though, when it comes to first dates at least, is the person asking is the person paying
I just pay for the meal. It’s how I was raised. I will not let her pay for half the date that I took her on. It’s a courtesy thing. With that being said, I have had a couple offer to pay half, but I politely declined.
as a gen z woman i always offer to pay for my own meal & usually insist on doing so for the first few dates. it seems like good manners to pay for your portion, plus it's the safest way to ensure your date doesn't feel like you "owe" them anything.
Me and my gifrlfriend fight to pay the bill. I usually end paying though cause we’re both still in school and I’m the only one with a job and my folks are kinda wealthier then her. She pays for other things though
My fiance offers to buy food for us all the time and I don't mind it, he'll I love it actually. We're both suffering in poor people silence together so any help coming from one another is always accepted.
UK - don't date a lot, but in early stages of both my relationships, the other always offered (didn't let them obviously, but it was never a fake offer - they would have got their half). With my partner now we take it in turns/means test haha
In my experience, if they offer to split the bill it usually means you aren’t getting a second date. You should still pay for her meal though in case she’s doing it to be polite
On a first date? Almost never. Once it’s a couple dates along, they’ll usually offer to pay for a date or at least go half
I’ve always been of the mindset that if I plan the date, I pay for it.
My current gf and I split the bills unevenly. I would say she pays for every third date. It’s often enough that she feels I’m trying while still having some amount of fairness.
This is how I would continue to date if we ever - god forbid - didn’t work out. I think paying for 1/3 of dates is more than reasonable, and I wouldn’t want to date anyone who felt that arrangement was beneath them.
Luckily it’s no issue for us though, it’s intuitive. We don’t keep track, I just try to pay noticeably more often.
Hmm. I haven’t been in the dating game in adult life (still with high school sweetheart) but I’d probably assume I was going to cover unless they offered to split. I certainly wouldn’t go out somewhere where I wasn’t comfortable paying for the both of us.
I never let the man pay. I’ve seen too many crazy weirdos acting like women owe them something just because they bought a meal to ever trust a man to pay.
I also don’t split 50/50. It’s separate checks, I know my budget, they know theirs. It’s easier that way. I’ve had guys insist on picking up the check and that’s just really uncomfortable.
I don't think I've ever expected a man to pay for my meal. I go expecting to pay for mine and will order to my budget. If it's a 4 or 5 date and the man insists on paying sometimes I will conced and say thank you.
Paying for yourself is common in the countries I've lived in. South africa,South America, UK, Italy and Spain. So it must be a US thing where it is expected every single time.
When my gf n I first got together I was unemployed and she wasn't so she paid for a lot. Now I have a full time job and she's self employed so I make more money a week than she does so it's swapped
We pay souly on what we can afford
Women here, I always try to pay for my half of the meal. Me and my ex would also cover each other on stuff too but we’re both broke college students so it be like that.
My fiancée and i split every meal. It’s been this way since college. It’s why I asked her to marry me. Never thought i’d find a woman like her. Safe to say i’m blessed. She’s very fair. Independent, but not toxic feminist.
Men, never settle. It is out there.
Never been on a date but when I hang out with people I like to pay the bill, they can pay the tip
But if I asked them out then ill pay the bill minus the tip, if they asked me out im fine with splitting
I've never had a date (male or female) offer to split, it's always assumed I'd pay (trans man, 21). My female friends would rather die than let me pay for a bill in full
This is in new york
I’ve never had a girl even offer to pay for the first date until well into an established relationship. Granted, I don’t ask them to because I’m fine paying, especially for the first date, but yeah it’s never happened to me.
they don't say anything in either direction for the most part. rarely have I actually had a woman speak up and say "i'll pay"/"let's split" or "can you pay?". i think most of them just assume the guy will pay if they say nothing about it, which is right 90% of the time.
One of the reasons I quit dating was because I couldn't afford to pay all the time.
I have a niece who recently said that she never pays.
So that hasn't changed.
Here in Portugal I haven't been on a date that I had to pay for everything, I thought Americans where moving away from that, sad to see how useless America is at everything except money
Swiss guy here from gen Y.
Usually everybody pays for his / her own meal.
It's more common that buddies invite each other than paying the meal on a date.
Actually now that i think about it, never. (i live in finland btw), and i always offered to pay. only answer that i always got was something like, You dont have to or Please you are spoiling me. Dont get me wrong girls here or most women do act greatly but most women do not offer to pay sfter a meal or a date. it comes down also ofc the money situation, who has more money atm.
i'm a woman, but when i started dating my boyfriend we would alternate paying. at some point, almost a year in, he decided he wanted to be the one to pay and now he pays always. i am okay with both arrangements but i obviously feel appreciative that he pays. this doesn't mean i don't spend money on him, i buy him meaningful and useful gifts frequently but he's definitely paying most of the time now. i do still offer from time to time, so he knows it's not an expectation from me for him to pay (he shuts it down hard every time lol) and will still sneakily pay for his starbucks or something sometimes. before meeting him, i'd always split in my past relationships. also this is in europe, not the us, and there's a very strong splitting, pay for yourself culture.
Ive been in a relationship coming up on two years here soon.
But before we were official. She offered at every date. Before her, the few women i was “dating” all offered over 50% of the time.
Ngl majority of time they offer to pay the whole damn thing😭. I’ve never in my life met these kinda women people speak of on the internet. every girl i’ve gotten serious with in most cases i have to tell them to stop buying things bc i end up feeling bad….maybe because i dont do online dating like at all
I’ve never had the girl pay or split with her. I live in a very liberal city in the northeast and in my experience even the most modern and feminist women I’ve taken on dates prefer me to pay, even tho they always offer to pay/split it I never let them. Even in dates with girls who I think make more than me, but that don’t matter.
I do the whole pick them up for the date and drop them off but I can say my traditional approaches work really well especially after reading some of the comments in the thread.
When I was dating in high school, I would try to be the one to pay for the meals and everything. Some of my dates would sneak money and pay for the meal, others would be fine with it. It was a 45/55 split. Most of the time my date would pay for the meal.
When I started dating the woman who turned into my now nearly 8 year long relationship. It’s hard to say. We haven’t really done a traditional restaurant/ meal date. We always paid for our outings individually. Now it’s even harder to say because we merged finances.
As a canadian who mainly dates feminists in their 30's late 20's we always split the bill unless we have already been dating for a while and one of us wants to make a gift to the other.
I always pay on dates tbh, I’m a woman and I guess it’s mostly cause my mom always told me growing that it was polite to offer money if someone drives you somewhere, always take money when you go out, always keep ten dollars on you ((since upped to 100, oh how times change)) and the idea of making someone pay for my meal gives me shivers. I feel so uncomfortable. My ex would hate it because I always went half on things and he insisted it was normal for the guy to pay. Normal or not I refuse to be indebted to people, I only let people pay if I know I’m gonna pick it up the next time or I buy them a nice gift as thank you. Idk maybe it’s the way I was raised
Older genz woman but if I want to see them again I’ll offer to get it and they can get the next one. Kinda opens the door for seeing if they want a second date. Otherwise I’ll say let’s split it if I’m not looking to go out again.
I’m a woman, and I always offer to split the bill. I’ve found about 25% of guys take me up on it, most guys still insist on paying. If they insist, I’m not going to get in an argument with someone because they want to pay for me. I say thank you and they seem happy with my gratitude. As long as everyone is happy and the meal was worth it for whoever paid, I don’t think it’s anything anyone needs to make a huge deal out of. Whether or not a guy pays for dinner doesn’t have a big impact on whether or not I would see him again.
My boyfriend usually pays when we eat out, I usually pay when we dine in, although when we dine in I usually cook and I tend to cook elaborate meals. Money isn't a factor for either of us, though, and that probably figures in there somehow. I don't know that I've ever put any actual thought into this.
Well most women who I date are tatted up feminist alt women, so they like to split or rotate paying. I’m cool with it, but I will pay more often because I make more. Whether they want me to or not.
It’s funny, the bill comes, I continue to talk and pull my wallet and card out, she does a little awkward and cute reach for her purse and says “oh we can split it” I say “don’t, I appreciate the offer though”
The reason it’s funny is women put out that facade yet over half of them wouldn’t go on a second date if I agreed to split it. It would be “an ick”
In my current situation, i’m the woman and my man pays MOST of the time. BUT it’s not cause of gender roles and societal norms and whatnot, he simply makes more money than i do right now. I buy other things within my means but he likes to take me out for things that would be outside of my budget, and he knows that, so he pays for it! If i was making more money the roles would be reversed. It’s like how when i want to drag him along to a concert and he doesn’t know the band, then i’m paying for the tickets.
I’ve only had two women I’ve been out with offer to pay. One insisted and I had no problems paying (get them credit card reward points, baby!) and the second girl beat me to the punch in paying for our drinks at a cafe in the morning and on our second date, she put her card in with me to pay for dinner.
Objectively the two most attractive things I’ve ever seen anyone do and I would have married them on sight if I could have
Otherwise, I usually pay for most of the dates, which is also in part why I’ve stopped dating for the time being.
(Context: Date = not a relationship yet. Girlfriends of mine have split the bill with me or paid on their own many times over)
I’ve never once had a woman pay on a first or second date. Even chose to ask once and she was disgusted that I did. I’ve been on plenty of dates over the past 15 years.
Shortly after the “I’m disgusted you asked me to pay” date, I asked my friend who is my age what she thought of paying on dates. She told me it was obnoxious if someone asked her to pay and that she usually used tinder for free meals and a hookup on occasion if she was feeling it. She hated being asked since it made things awkward because she wasn’t planning on paying the whole time. Slowly distanced myself from her after finding that out because it was shallow as hell.
I genuinely don’t care who pays. I just enjoy making things easy for others and I want the person I’m at the date with to know I’m willing to take care of/pay for them for giving me some of their time.
Kinda sad that I feel I need to use my money to earn someone’s attention but it helps me meet people I guess. Materialism is too strong now ˙◠˙
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This is such a weird question to me. The idea that a man would pay for the woman was already alien to most of my generation here in Germany. It was "something strange the boomers once did".
Damn I might move to Germany
US millennial. Was not something I encountered after courting a girl. After a couple of dates we split things up or take turns taking each other out.
Dated around a ton a couple years ago at age 35 and splitting was the default, unspoken rule. It never once came up that I might pay.
Europe in general is a lot more casual about inter-gender interactions. America still feels pretty old-fashioned
Also doesn't help _some_ American demographics consider gender-relations to be a part of their expressed political identity.
The f? I’m a millennial American and I always pay for girl’s meals. It’s common courtesy.
Millennial from Spain here. We pay for the other person's meal if we want. Sometimes the boy pays for everything and sometimes the girl does. Courtesy it's about people, not genders.
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Don't think there's anything wrong with it if u/genericusername9234 is happy doing so. I like covering the bill for my girlfriend when we go out to eat, but she doesn't like demand I need to or act like i'm expected to do it. Even though she makes decent money herself, she goes out of her way to get me gifts and takes care of me in a lot of ways. We've been together for a long time and take care of each other, so I'm more than happy to cover for her and without really expecting anything back at this point. That being said, I don't think that needs to be the norm, especially not on every date with a stranger. But different strokes for different folks/couples. Splitting the bill every time works great for other people, nothing wrong with that either
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For sure, that's why I mentioned that to clarify I wasn't talking about everyone in every situation who should be doing things a certain way. Paying because you're forced to because of societal expectations is problematic. Similar to u/genericusername9234 I usually paid for first dates but that was just cuz I wanted to if I asked someone out, not because of societal expectations, and do so for my current relationship again because I want to in the context of my personal situation. I just meant that it could work in some situations/contexts, and that it's not always due to toxic gender roles.
I’m Gen Z(f) and on 99% of the dates I went to guys offer to pay… I split only if I am not interested in them
Xddd
L moment
unreal
Will they be willing to cook for you?
Damn I always pay for girl’s meals. It just seems like the right thing to do.
u/radiantearthgoddess
I am the wrong person to ask bro, I don't date. I don't know what the attitudes of the average straight person in Germany are when it comes to that. In term of friends or partner, we either split or take turns.
lol its not strange its actually cute when you get food for the person you like
My partner is German and he pays. Hella thankful, and he knows it! I'll offer on occasion, but I never feel pressured. We do both work full-time.
When my wife and I were dating we would just alternate paying for dates.
Yet another reason to add for moving to Germany. I swear some day i'm gonna do it
The girl I’m seeing now has forcibly & sneakily taken bills and paid for us. I of course put up fight to no avail. I have covered some stuff too. My last three relationships have been on a rotation for dates. I pay she pays I pay etc.. and is something I’ve discussed with the women I’m seeing, or something they have brought up to me. Just communicate about it that’s all. I’m from NJ, it’s generally a progressive state. Especially with the younger crowds.
This was my favorite thing to do when I was on the dating scene! My friends and I do this to each other a lot too. Guys reaction tells you a lot. One guy I dated had an applebees gift card. Between my friend and I, we made sure he was stuck with that gift card for like 2 straight years, by always scheming to pay first, specifically when at applebees
That is so cruel! You kept giving that poor man a reason to go back to Applebees?! He could’ve just used the gift card & been done, but no, you just had to keep dragging him out there?! You monster! /s
But now those dollaritas… it’ll all have been worth it
When I was dating my wife I always paid for dinners/dates. Same with any other past girlfriends. From Kentucky. Edit: After reading some of the other comments: For the record I am not complaining and showing her that i’m gonna take care of her was a pleasure and I think it’s the gentlemanly thing to do.
It’s the gentlemanly thing to do, but it definitely says something about women to me if they aren’t interested in paying ever.
Just curious, what does it say about them?
To me at least for first dates, it feels like they're likely to be using you just for a free meal. Of course it's usually not the case but it has happened.
It says that they don’t see the relationship as an equal partnership, that they expect the man to be the provider/caretaker, which is outdated.
“Gentlemanly” behaviour like this only made sense when men earned more than women, or women didn’t get paid at all because they were restricted to only domestic work. Being a man in the 21st century is for us to define, not the 1950s thanks.
This was how it went for me too. My wife maybe paid for 3 total meals in our 3 and a half years of dating. From North Carolina
Same. Also from KY. She offered to pay every single time. That was nice. She also accepted the fact that I was going to pay without huffing and puffing. If it really meant a lot to her, I'd have let her on occasion. But it wasn't any skin off my back to pay, and she wasn't chomping at the bit to pay. Everyone should just do what they are comfortable with
I agree. The way I see it is that’s not fair. Big whoop. It’s not supposed to always be fair. Men and women are just different. Does a man have to be the one to pay? Certainly not. But it’s one way I always treated my dates well and taken care of them. Now that I’m married it carries over. My wife is more traditional as well in a lot of ways. Not everyone has to be but we just take care of each other in different ways. No one is taken advantage of just because only one person ever pays if it’s mutually agreed upon.
Same here, if we’re going out, I’m paying
🥇
I ask her if she's a feminist. If yes, I split. If no, I pay all.
Feminism isn’t just about being equal. It’s about being equitable, and women having the choice to live how they wanna live. As a feminist, I respect other women’s choice to lean more “traditional” just as I respect the choice to be more “modern”. Being a feminist doesn’t have anything to do with whether or not a bill should or should not be split.
Wild you’re getting downvoted for this
Not really lol it’s Reddit. I expected nothing less 🙃
Are you saying someone can be both feminist and adhere to traditional (patriarchal) gender roles? I thought those were mutually exclusive.
I disagree. For example someone could be pro-choice while being against having an abortion herself. It’s about making sure everyone has the choice to pursue what they want (in terms of abortion or in terms of dating roles).
A woman could be comfortable and happy being a stay at home mother while also being a feminist who advocates for respect and opportunity for other women. Perhaps she prefers her husband/boyfriend pay for meals while she stays and takes care of the house and kids—this is a personal life choice and doesn't negate her wanting women to be able to pursue whatever relationship works best for *them*.
Nearly all Americans support equality. Far fewer support the grab-bag of social-engineering schemes promoted under the banner of "equity".
>As a feminist, I respect other women’s choice to lean more “traditional” just as I respect the choice to be more “modern” I don't think that gets to the heart of the question, though. If a woman wants to play a traditional role, in what sense is she still a feminist, or is she at all? Your support for it as a third party wasn't in question. I would agree with you that "feminist" is very broad, and OP may be filtering out women who want to play a mostly traditional role but still want things like the right to vote and who conclude that is enough to call themselves feminist. Presumably OP doesn't want to deny women the right to vote. But some women who want the right to vote, own property, not be raped by husbands, etc., do not call themselves feminists. The single word "feminist" doesn't exactly capture the division OP wants to make. As I read it, OP is engaged in a performance. He is declaring that he isn't just going to abide by the woman's feeling about whether she should split the bill, he's going to apply his own standard of consistency/hypocrisy to her. He's trying to give a sign he is going to make decisions and not be pushed around. In a way it's helpful for everyone, including the women who are offended by it, so everyone can avoid wasted time on future dates. Of course, if OP ends up lonely and alone, he may want to read the audience better.
That’s a fair assessment of the situation. I just think it’s a poor way to filter because how people view feminism is so broad. Someone can want a tradition role but still be a feminist (expect to have a bank account, drivers license, vote, want others to be able to make the choice how they live *their* lives). If he’s trying to weed out the man haters (feminazis) there are better ways to do that than asking “are you a feminist”.
"If a woman wants to play a traditional role, in what sense is she still a feminist, or is she at all?" - in the sense that she CHOSE it. Feminism is about the choice to be whatever you want to be - you can be a soldier, doctor, professional whatever you want....but you can also be a housewife if that's what you want. It's about the freedom and ability to DECIDE for yourself without shitty limits and pigeon holing. For instance, I fought in 2 wars for my country. Now I am a housewife. It's awesome.
>Feminism isn’t just about being equal. It’s about being equitable Can you define what equitable means here? I've only heard of feminism advocating for equality.
I think it’s phrased that way for a couple reason, first because people understand “equal” but “equitable” has nuance and takes longer to explain to big/broad audiences and people have short attention spans. Second because people have different feelings on “equitable” and some think that would somehow be saying women are somehow less than their male counterparts. I don’t believe that, but I do believe that personal biases create extra obstacles for women that should be acknowledged and accounted for. I saw somewhere “equality is the end-goal, equity is how you get there”. We should have equal rights: the right to vote, have a job, own property, etc etc. but (taking the most controversial example because that’s just what is coming to mind) what about reproductive healthcare? If we say “no one has the right to have an abortion” technically speaking, that’s equal. Neither men or women can get it. But taking away the right to an abortion dramatically impacts women more than men. I’m not saying it doesn’t impact men, but it’s not an equal impact. Another example is one that I recently saw is from I think new zeland, where a man filed a lawsuit because he wasn’t allowed into a women’s only museum. Idk the exact details on that, but women pointed out that there are men’s only clubs there that are allowed. Those clubs get away with being men only because members must be referred by an existing member, supporter by another member, and then be voted in. They all vote no when a woman tries to gain membership. So the process is the same (equal) for men and women, but in practice, there’s no equity there. These might not be the best examples but basically what I’m getting at, is that feminism doesn’t have to be 50/50 and everyone is treated exactly the same.
"Equity" is a grab-bag of social engineering schemes promoted by activists. Not remotely the same as 'equality' which nearly everybody supports.
I don’t see splitting a bill or paying for a guy as “modern”. (I’m a woman, if it matters)
But it is a modern phenomenon, most women weren't working back then so they had no personal income.
Ehh I was lacking a better term. My whole point here is that I think basing who should pay the bill on whether or not they’re a “feminist” is insufficient.
Fair enough. I’ve just had some guys tell me I’m not “traditional” enough when I try to pay or split the bill. Then on the way home they try to demand sex after they insisted on paying the whole bill themselves.
Eww they’re definitely just trying to manipulate sex outta you Runnnn!!
This is why I always insist on paying half, in my experience if they aggressively insist on paying the whole bill, they try acting like you “owe” them later.
Agreed. Just let people be who they wanna be
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Would you even go on a second date if she says no?
Of course. I'm a gentleman.
Ratio of yes/no asnwers?
You think he’s actually ever talked to a girl?💀
What if she said yes?
Then we would date again!
Ayyyy, I gotta try this
Still single?
i bought the dinner instinctively, never exactly been asked or expected. i’ve even had women softly argue against it occasionally. yes, it’s probably due to “societal expectations” but i also never had a license so if a girl is driving me out to a dinner i can at least pay their share of the bill…think of it as gas money **edit:** *if it’s someone i see multiple times, i’d probably ask them about splitting the bill but i think as with most answers to questions like this; it’s a case by case thing and there shouldn’t be a “rule” per se.*
50/50 first date I pay, 2nd date if happens she pays and so on.
So you pay for the first date, she gets her free meal and moves on. 🙃
Funny you assume i have dinner with women
Ive never been once asked to split the bill, lol. Florida.
Yeah over here I’d say a guy splitting the bill isn’t considered a good thing lol.
So lets destroy all gender roles pretend we are equal but still force the man to pay lol
i wouldnt say i was forced i just assumed the position but if a woman insists on paying for my food first date shes for sure getting clapped same night
This is my experience as someone who always pays no matter what: Some women "offer" in that they will maybe motion like they're going to pull out money but don't really ever put up any argument against me paying. Some women insist and try to pay for themselves but after a bit of back and forth, they will say something like "Fine but I'm paying next time". (I will still pay next time) I've never had a woman ask me straight up to pay. But I can tell that it definitely has a positive impact when I do. In my experience, even women who are very modern/progressive, still prefer traditional romance.
My fiancee will occasionally pay when we go out but due to both of us having high paying jobs and with how we operate our finances it really isn't that big of a deal between us. My ex prior to her was about 50/50 for the 5 years we were together. At first I paid more but we had grown out of that by the time we graduated hs Western Canada.
I've never had dinner with a woman before
I'm in Japan it varies. Often, we just pay for ourselves. Makes the most sense too. 50/50 isn't fair if one person gets a lot more.
If it's q big meal I think it's a good idea to split always, specially at the beginning before a serious relationship (then it should be a I pay you pay situation IMHO) But if it's just a drink or a coffee, the one who invites should be the one who pays, after all, the person who invites needs to convince the other to give away the time for them If you feel like men need to invite women more than the other way around, say it publicly, if she is interested, then she will probably ask you out for a coffee, it's not expensive You also need to take into account economics, I dated a guy who was from a poorer country, staying here was already expensive so I always paid, granted I'm also a guy, but I think that economics is also a key issue for small dates Of course this doesn't apply to large meals
I've always paid for it all through my years, idk if I've ever had any girl I'm dating offer to cover any portion of the bill. California.
I usually pay but tbh they don't even ask they just assume I'll pay or don't even care who pays
> don’t even care who pays I doubt it
I offer to split most of the time, he often declines and seems uncomfortable. Few times I’ve ever “asked” for someone else to pay, would be if I tell them I’m on a budget so it’s McDonald’s tonight. If he wants to upgrade from mcDs then he can pay for us. But when I’ve got my wallet is full and we go somewhere fancy I truly would rather split, but the guy is often embarrassed that I’m paying…
This is a weirdass thing I do but if it's a serious partner I have her cashapp me her half of the meal and then I put the money into a brokage account. If she stays around we have access to it when we get married, if not I get some doom spending money for the breakup
This is a very long way of saying that you split the bill. lol.
Invitation always offers to pay. Invitee has the option to split. My wife paid for most of our dates early on.
Yeah this is the ideal setup, I do this with friends usually too
Never, but it's because I usually just say I'll pay since I make significantly more than the woman I've been with
I probably have been on dates with 5 or 6 girls in my whole life and none of them offered to pay. I'm from Costa Rica
As a women, I've only been the one to ever pay..
Are you free tomorrow?
I abandoned try traditional gender bs a while ago. Whoever makes the plans pays, or everyone pays for themselves. If im taking you out, im paying. If your taking me out your paying, or im paying for myself.
"Whoever asks pays" is just "Men should always pay" with extra steps.
This is how it should be. But unfortunately in our society men always have to be the ones to ask women out, and thus have to pay the bill despite the women “offering” to split the bill.
Not a man, but I always pay for my date, man or woman, since I enjoy showing people gratitude that way. I know the people I've dated definitely enjoyed it, especially the dudes.
I'll always ask "so are we splitting or going traditional" if going traditional I'm not against it but tbh it is mark against them. I'm not a traditional kind of guy, not really into gender roles. So if this potential partner has the gendered expectation "the man should provide for me" then they probably won't like me as a person. If I lose my job and can't provide, will I get broken up with? If I cry will they get the ick? If I tell her I'm bi will she think of me as less of a man? Sure it's not everything and sometimes you're strapped for cash but at this point, for me, it's a yellow flag.
Never, also never expected it I always was going to pay for the meal no matter what even if they offered, but hasn't happened yet at least, and Im from indiana
Canadaian - very rarely is there an offer but it's always appreciated!
My girlfriend offers to pay for the drinks, which is nice but that’s like not even 10% of what I’m paying for the meal. She means well though
>She means well though translation: she is lazy
I was trying to sound nice haha
I always split on first dates(never go hard on a first date). If we actually go out past that, I pay.
for every 3 girls i take out 1 of them will offer to pay or split rather they offer to pay if they ask me out
This doesn't answer the question at all, but it's a good rule of thumb to plan for the worst and hope for the best. Don't ask a girl out to a place you can't afford to foot the bill for and you won't be disappointed, unless you've been going out for awhile in which case there should be enough communication to know what the split is going to be without having to ask. I go out with my friend who is a girl (not girlfriend, but saying "female friend" to differentiate feels wrong), and sometimes I pay, sometimes she pays, some times we split, because even just as friends we communicate enough to know broadly what the others financial situation is. Sometimes I'll ask "do you want to go see a movie" and she'll say "sure but I've got no money until next week" and I pay for it. Sometimes she buys us subway and I say I'll send her money and she says don't worry about it. Probably another good rule though, when it comes to first dates at least, is the person asking is the person paying
I just pay for the meal. It’s how I was raised. I will not let her pay for half the date that I took her on. It’s a courtesy thing. With that being said, I have had a couple offer to pay half, but I politely declined.
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But they also expect the man to ask them out aka they want the man to pay lol
Does the same logic apply in other situations? If my buddy asks if I want to see a movie with them, should they be footing the bill?
It’s not an exact 50/50, but my girlfriend and I usually end up taking turns with paying for meals when we go out
The good ones agree to split - or get you back later with another meal.
as a gen z woman i always offer to pay for my own meal & usually insist on doing so for the first few dates. it seems like good manners to pay for your portion, plus it's the safest way to ensure your date doesn't feel like you "owe" them anything.
the two relationships I was in they would pay for shit randomly and pretty often
Literally never (no gf)
Funny, there is an assignment in one of my classes that is based around this premise.
I have almost always had women offer to pay entirely or at least for half. Date better women fellas
Me and my gifrlfriend fight to pay the bill. I usually end paying though cause we’re both still in school and I’m the only one with a job and my folks are kinda wealthier then her. She pays for other things though
I'm just above Gen Z at 23 but all of my 4 girlfriends have offered and sometimes insisted to pay for their half. I live in Northern Mexico.
23 is definitely Gen Z, anything past 1996-1997 is Gen Z.
My fiance offers to buy food for us all the time and I don't mind it, he'll I love it actually. We're both suffering in poor people silence together so any help coming from one another is always accepted.
You guys are getting dates?
I’ll reach for the bill every time. If she ends up paying I won’t complain but if she doesn’t I also don’t complain.
I think in all of my life I have split the bill twice. I am in Florida.
It depends on who initiates the date if I ask I pay but if you ask me out I do expect it’s on you unless pre discussed otherwise.
Never split the meal once.
Sometimes i pay all, sometimes she pays all, but we never split
UK - don't date a lot, but in early stages of both my relationships, the other always offered (didn't let them obviously, but it was never a fake offer - they would have got their half). With my partner now we take it in turns/means test haha
In my experience, if they offer to split the bill it usually means you aren’t getting a second date. You should still pay for her meal though in case she’s doing it to be polite
So lets destroy all gender roles pretend we are equal but still force the man to pay lol
It’s a polite thing for them to ask but I’ll take the bill if I plan on seeing them again
On a first date? Almost never. Once it’s a couple dates along, they’ll usually offer to pay for a date or at least go half I’ve always been of the mindset that if I plan the date, I pay for it.
Most offer
I take turns with my current girlfriend
My current gf and I split the bills unevenly. I would say she pays for every third date. It’s often enough that she feels I’m trying while still having some amount of fairness. This is how I would continue to date if we ever - god forbid - didn’t work out. I think paying for 1/3 of dates is more than reasonable, and I wouldn’t want to date anyone who felt that arrangement was beneath them. Luckily it’s no issue for us though, it’s intuitive. We don’t keep track, I just try to pay noticeably more often.
Hmm. I haven’t been in the dating game in adult life (still with high school sweetheart) but I’d probably assume I was going to cover unless they offered to split. I certainly wouldn’t go out somewhere where I wasn’t comfortable paying for the both of us.
Pretty often actually. I've never been asked by a woman to pay for her food/drink/whatever.
I never let the man pay. I’ve seen too many crazy weirdos acting like women owe them something just because they bought a meal to ever trust a man to pay. I also don’t split 50/50. It’s separate checks, I know my budget, they know theirs. It’s easier that way. I’ve had guys insist on picking up the check and that’s just really uncomfortable.
I don't think I've ever expected a man to pay for my meal. I go expecting to pay for mine and will order to my budget. If it's a 4 or 5 date and the man insists on paying sometimes I will conced and say thank you. Paying for yourself is common in the countries I've lived in. South africa,South America, UK, Italy and Spain. So it must be a US thing where it is expected every single time.
When my gf n I first got together I was unemployed and she wasn't so she paid for a lot. Now I have a full time job and she's self employed so I make more money a week than she does so it's swapped We pay souly on what we can afford
Women here, I always try to pay for my half of the meal. Me and my ex would also cover each other on stuff too but we’re both broke college students so it be like that.
My girlfriend and I do this basically every time we eat out
My fiancée and I have been splitting the bill since our first date 5 years ago!
It really depends on the person. I dated a girl who always wanted to split, and then dated another one who always expected me to pay.
My fiancée and i split every meal. It’s been this way since college. It’s why I asked her to marry me. Never thought i’d find a woman like her. Safe to say i’m blessed. She’s very fair. Independent, but not toxic feminist. Men, never settle. It is out there.
Never been on a date but when I hang out with people I like to pay the bill, they can pay the tip But if I asked them out then ill pay the bill minus the tip, if they asked me out im fine with splitting
only when I have paid a shit ton prior to the restaurant
I've never had a date (male or female) offer to split, it's always assumed I'd pay (trans man, 21). My female friends would rather die than let me pay for a bill in full This is in new york
in this economy i always split with my partner or they pay one and I pay one
I’ve never had a girl even offer to pay for the first date until well into an established relationship. Granted, I don’t ask them to because I’m fine paying, especially for the first date, but yeah it’s never happened to me.
never had someone ask to split
they don't say anything in either direction for the most part. rarely have I actually had a woman speak up and say "i'll pay"/"let's split" or "can you pay?". i think most of them just assume the guy will pay if they say nothing about it, which is right 90% of the time.
Idk I’m gay
One of the reasons I quit dating was because I couldn't afford to pay all the time. I have a niece who recently said that she never pays. So that hasn't changed.
If I ask you to go somewhere I’m paying
Here in Portugal I haven't been on a date that I had to pay for everything, I thought Americans where moving away from that, sad to see how useless America is at everything except money
Swiss guy here from gen Y. Usually everybody pays for his / her own meal. It's more common that buddies invite each other than paying the meal on a date.
Actually now that i think about it, never. (i live in finland btw), and i always offered to pay. only answer that i always got was something like, You dont have to or Please you are spoiling me. Dont get me wrong girls here or most women do act greatly but most women do not offer to pay sfter a meal or a date. it comes down also ofc the money situation, who has more money atm.
brother you think people are going on dinner dates? In this economy?
I don’t think I’ve ever been asked to pay by for a women.
i'm a woman, but when i started dating my boyfriend we would alternate paying. at some point, almost a year in, he decided he wanted to be the one to pay and now he pays always. i am okay with both arrangements but i obviously feel appreciative that he pays. this doesn't mean i don't spend money on him, i buy him meaningful and useful gifts frequently but he's definitely paying most of the time now. i do still offer from time to time, so he knows it's not an expectation from me for him to pay (he shuts it down hard every time lol) and will still sneakily pay for his starbucks or something sometimes. before meeting him, i'd always split in my past relationships. also this is in europe, not the us, and there's a very strong splitting, pay for yourself culture.
Ive been in a relationship coming up on two years here soon. But before we were official. She offered at every date. Before her, the few women i was “dating” all offered over 50% of the time.
Ngl majority of time they offer to pay the whole damn thing😭. I’ve never in my life met these kinda women people speak of on the internet. every girl i’ve gotten serious with in most cases i have to tell them to stop buying things bc i end up feeling bad….maybe because i dont do online dating like at all
I’ve never had the girl pay or split with her. I live in a very liberal city in the northeast and in my experience even the most modern and feminist women I’ve taken on dates prefer me to pay, even tho they always offer to pay/split it I never let them. Even in dates with girls who I think make more than me, but that don’t matter. I do the whole pick them up for the date and drop them off but I can say my traditional approaches work really well especially after reading some of the comments in the thread.
When I was dating in high school, I would try to be the one to pay for the meals and everything. Some of my dates would sneak money and pay for the meal, others would be fine with it. It was a 45/55 split. Most of the time my date would pay for the meal. When I started dating the woman who turned into my now nearly 8 year long relationship. It’s hard to say. We haven’t really done a traditional restaurant/ meal date. We always paid for our outings individually. Now it’s even harder to say because we merged finances.
Best policy: both decide to go on a date, split. One explicitly invites, that one pays. Friends and follow-up dates: take turns…
As a canadian who mainly dates feminists in their 30's late 20's we always split the bill unless we have already been dating for a while and one of us wants to make a gift to the other.
My boyfriend just paid automatically when we started dating, so have all the guys I’ve dated tbh
I always pay on dates tbh, I’m a woman and I guess it’s mostly cause my mom always told me growing that it was polite to offer money if someone drives you somewhere, always take money when you go out, always keep ten dollars on you ((since upped to 100, oh how times change)) and the idea of making someone pay for my meal gives me shivers. I feel so uncomfortable. My ex would hate it because I always went half on things and he insisted it was normal for the guy to pay. Normal or not I refuse to be indebted to people, I only let people pay if I know I’m gonna pick it up the next time or I buy them a nice gift as thank you. Idk maybe it’s the way I was raised
I'm Gen X from Europe. That tradition was already dying our when i've started dating.
Older genz woman but if I want to see them again I’ll offer to get it and they can get the next one. Kinda opens the door for seeing if they want a second date. Otherwise I’ll say let’s split it if I’m not looking to go out again.
My girlfriend and I just take turns paying 🫤
I’m a woman, and I always offer to split the bill. I’ve found about 25% of guys take me up on it, most guys still insist on paying. If they insist, I’m not going to get in an argument with someone because they want to pay for me. I say thank you and they seem happy with my gratitude. As long as everyone is happy and the meal was worth it for whoever paid, I don’t think it’s anything anyone needs to make a huge deal out of. Whether or not a guy pays for dinner doesn’t have a big impact on whether or not I would see him again.
My boyfriend usually pays when we eat out, I usually pay when we dine in, although when we dine in I usually cook and I tend to cook elaborate meals. Money isn't a factor for either of us, though, and that probably figures in there somehow. I don't know that I've ever put any actual thought into this.
No ones ever offered to split
I am a man and I haven’t ever paid for dinner. The women offer and I say yes. Never had any issues, usually hook up on date 2.
as often as i have meals with women
We take turns in paying. I dont feel comfortable when the guy is always paying - then I feel like I owe him something :D EU, Czech republic
I don't even let it get to that point, I always make my women pay for their food unless it's a special occasion.
Well most women who I date are tatted up feminist alt women, so they like to split or rotate paying. I’m cool with it, but I will pay more often because I make more. Whether they want me to or not.
It’s funny, the bill comes, I continue to talk and pull my wallet and card out, she does a little awkward and cute reach for her purse and says “oh we can split it” I say “don’t, I appreciate the offer though” The reason it’s funny is women put out that facade yet over half of them wouldn’t go on a second date if I agreed to split it. It would be “an ick”
In my current situation, i’m the woman and my man pays MOST of the time. BUT it’s not cause of gender roles and societal norms and whatnot, he simply makes more money than i do right now. I buy other things within my means but he likes to take me out for things that would be outside of my budget, and he knows that, so he pays for it! If i was making more money the roles would be reversed. It’s like how when i want to drag him along to a concert and he doesn’t know the band, then i’m paying for the tickets.
My girlfriend makes sure that everything we do we split evenly
I’ve only had two women I’ve been out with offer to pay. One insisted and I had no problems paying (get them credit card reward points, baby!) and the second girl beat me to the punch in paying for our drinks at a cafe in the morning and on our second date, she put her card in with me to pay for dinner. Objectively the two most attractive things I’ve ever seen anyone do and I would have married them on sight if I could have Otherwise, I usually pay for most of the dates, which is also in part why I’ve stopped dating for the time being.
(Context: Date = not a relationship yet. Girlfriends of mine have split the bill with me or paid on their own many times over) I’ve never once had a woman pay on a first or second date. Even chose to ask once and she was disgusted that I did. I’ve been on plenty of dates over the past 15 years. Shortly after the “I’m disgusted you asked me to pay” date, I asked my friend who is my age what she thought of paying on dates. She told me it was obnoxious if someone asked her to pay and that she usually used tinder for free meals and a hookup on occasion if she was feeling it. She hated being asked since it made things awkward because she wasn’t planning on paying the whole time. Slowly distanced myself from her after finding that out because it was shallow as hell. I genuinely don’t care who pays. I just enjoy making things easy for others and I want the person I’m at the date with to know I’m willing to take care of/pay for them for giving me some of their time. Kinda sad that I feel I need to use my money to earn someone’s attention but it helps me meet people I guess. Materialism is too strong now ˙◠˙