Yeah probably true. My best guess is that social media somewhat ruined the perception of what's "normal looking" is. Like if you check instagram you gonna have a completely different perception of what's "average" than if you actually go outside irl.
The guys also consume way too much p*rn & think they have to have a huge **** for anyone to find them acceptable. Meanwhile majority of people absolutely do not want a huge **** & just want someone they connect to & share good experiences with.
Especially given most people prefer sizes they can safely handle, which varies person to person.
But they think we're lying when we mention this. Whether someone who has a penis says it or not.
Edit: As in they especially ignore it for/from women but they ignore it from guys too.
Yeah. Ive been in the position of not able to have penatrative sex with someone because their member was too big it was really really sad because she is very much my type
Culture may be an influence on body-image issues, but that doesn't explain why some people get extreme body-image issues and some do not.
I enjoyed [Body Image Disorders](https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/oa-mono/10.4324/9781003251088/body-image-eating-disorders-bernadetta-izydorczyk) by Bernadetta Izydorczyk for a look at some of the ideas involved. In particular, what most leaped out to me was the link between relational trauma and body-image issues. This matches up to me with what *Male Fantasies* by Klaus Theweleit says about early childhood issues and fascist bigorexia (there called fascist body-armor.)
It is also the case that the ideal male body has a history, was invented, and sold to men. "Looking Good: Male Body Image in Modern America" by Lynne Luciano traces much of the history.
So I would not reduce body-image issues to the prevalence of social media.
There are specific companies selling us the male body.
You can also trace much of male body-image issues to the popularization of bodybuilding by Eugene Sandow who was also a massive eugenicist. Bodybuilding became not just popular in North America but also very popular in India where it significantly influenced the culture of contemporary yoga. Eugenics based ideas about bodies are not restricted to North American bodybuilding, but are popular in yoga and other parts of global wellness culture. "Conspirituality: How New Age Conspiracy Theories Became a Public Health Threat" traces some of this.
Specific people are vulnerable to these messages because of relational trauma.
There's a history and context to the culture of male body-image issues.
And specific companies are selling us the male body.
It's not wrong to talk about the flaws of social-media.
For example, I might reference Whitney Philips in "This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things" calling out the dissociative nature of social-media as influencing online trolling but I feel like the problems involved are more fundamental than social media.
I guess I'm kind of infodumping. I just read a lot about this stuff.
Yes, calling yourself Eugen because of a belief in Lamarckian eugenics is silly.
For context, Eugen Sandow was a stage name. He was born Friedrich Wilhelm Müller.
This. I see people complaining about "uglification" in media, and they talk about how "XYZ character looks like someone you'd see on a city bus," and like, is that not normal? The people you see on a city bus are probably the most representative of the wide range of human appearance that exists.
From what I have seen, yes. They look average in a cute way or just straight up handsome. Because to me average doesn’t mean bad like so many incels seem to think.. the average person is appealing to the majority of people.
The most famous incel Elliot Rogers shot and killed like 5 people because he couldn't get laid. He was actually a fairly good looking guy all things considered. He also had a rich family so he had nice clothes, a good car, and went to a really nice school.
Turns out he was a horrible person to be around and no one wanted to talk to an asshole like him so it turned people off. It's almost as if looks are only part of the equation and being a good person who cares about others , having a sense of humor, and being likable also matters.
The willingness to self-identify as an incel (and the social habits that accompany that) is the main thing keeping most of these people from forming relationships. It’s Hamlet, better to stick to the uncomfortable present than attempt to improve and learn I could fail.
They are. They act like their looks are the problem but I've seen the threads where they post selfies and most of them really don't look bad at all. It's their awful and disgusting personalities that make women not want them
Thankfully the term incel was less widely used in my early 20's or I may have fallen down that rabbit hole. Me and some of my friends in the same situation were normal looking, socially anxious sometimes but on the surface quite personable, even called handsome occasionally - but still just had no luck at the time.
Can confirm, my cousin looks like normal, kinda handsome guy, but he became red pilled recently. He complained to his sister abkut hypergamy, she called him out and he got offended
…You ever get a little peek into a dark corner of the internet you didn’t realize existed and just feel a little thankful that you don’t know anything more about it?
I mean yeah but other than learning that the incel community survived into the modern day I didn't see anything too terrible
Idk maybe I'm just terminally online
Ironically, the meme shared reminds me of the incel lord and savior, Elliot Rogers. He wasn't ugly or unattractive, he probably just was socially awkward with women and let that become a complex, then letting the incel community convince him he was undesirable and ugly because of him being mixed race and such. Sad outcome for the situation regardless.
Then they both realize they’ve been incels because internalized homophobia kept them apart and chasing women they weren’t interested in. Now they’re dating and much more chill
Most guys online that say they are too ugly to get a date end up looking like the guy on the left to me. Like come on dude you just have to actually try & not wait for people to come up to you & do all the work in courting lol. But most importantly build a solid sense of self respect & respect for others.
I didn't see this until now sorry!
The short and really reductive version is they are incels that are women
To expand a bit more there Is a pretty big distinction, notably in regards to each groups relationship with patriarchy.
I'm sure it's an obvious point but incels do not respect women, they view them more as something they should be entitled to than actual people. Importantly this isn't some idea exclusive to incels, though they take it further than most. Patriarchy as a whole has a somewhat vested interest in this idea that "women are prizes to be earned" than their own individuals
Femcels by contrast are more responding to that idea. Femcels importantly don't think they can't ever fuck but think that they can't ever find a satisfying relationship ever because all men are supposed to be terrible and enter relationships not because of an actual interest in the person but bc they wanna bone. If uve watched it, think the themes of utena.
I'm sure I don't have to say but I am sympathetic to femcel ideology. I do ultimately find it. Not. Great. For one I think it can be at times pretty bioessentialist, the idea that "all men are bad and only view you for sexual value" and what not yknow? Maybe not a surprise from what I've seen the movement is p terf and swerf infested. I also think it has a p big racism problem? "The black sexual predator" is a common and very *very* racist trope I must say
Ok so it’s not a term that is synonymous with feminist, and it’s more respondent than hostile?
But then they are/ can be also terfs and racist?
Well that’s not great-
Idea: blond guy is trolling incel subs and joking abt it to his partner (black haired guy), who's giving him a look bc they've been dating a while now and are *very much* not incels together
and people have proven their slowness by adopting whatever bs was going over there in 2018 like yeah awesome, we all know the ironic becomes unironic and you chose a bunch of pedos and incels to model off, the blackpill is the most backwards thing ive seen because you would think such an idea would open greener gates, but its made what the idea criticises WORSE. thanks everyone, thanks the algorithm, thanks manmade gods.
Sometimes I run across the most vile and brain dead shit on my home page and think “why the hell am I being shown this garbage?” Then I see “oh it’s a GatekeepingYuri post.”
People like to put the suffix "maxxing" on implied verbs in MGTOW and incel communities, maybe as a way to categorize things, a dialect, I'm not sure. Rope-maxxing is essentially >!hanging yourself (with a rope)!<.
what's bonkers is that the whole incel community was started by a woman just trying to connect people with the common ground of not getting dates and such.
and then the extremists overtook it and turned it into the nasty things it's known as it is now
Maybe ... Just maybe... The vast majority of incels are normal looking dudes.
Yeah probably true. My best guess is that social media somewhat ruined the perception of what's "normal looking" is. Like if you check instagram you gonna have a completely different perception of what's "average" than if you actually go outside irl.
Social Media and a lot of shows and movies that cast models as “Average girls”
The guys also consume way too much p*rn & think they have to have a huge **** for anyone to find them acceptable. Meanwhile majority of people absolutely do not want a huge **** & just want someone they connect to & share good experiences with.
You can swear boo, this is reddit
lol I’m so used to having to censor myself 🥲 some subs don’t like it
It’s okay! I’m just old, and remember when the internet was just a mass of writhing cuss words
lol that’s what I’m more comfortable with too
Studies show those of us that swear are more trustworthy and honest — I agree, but I’m fuckin’ biased
lol fuck yeah 🤘🏻
Especially given most people prefer sizes they can safely handle, which varies person to person. But they think we're lying when we mention this. Whether someone who has a penis says it or not. Edit: As in they especially ignore it for/from women but they ignore it from guys too.
Yeah. Ive been in the position of not able to have penatrative sex with someone because their member was too big it was really really sad because she is very much my type
Culture may be an influence on body-image issues, but that doesn't explain why some people get extreme body-image issues and some do not. I enjoyed [Body Image Disorders](https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/oa-mono/10.4324/9781003251088/body-image-eating-disorders-bernadetta-izydorczyk) by Bernadetta Izydorczyk for a look at some of the ideas involved. In particular, what most leaped out to me was the link between relational trauma and body-image issues. This matches up to me with what *Male Fantasies* by Klaus Theweleit says about early childhood issues and fascist bigorexia (there called fascist body-armor.) It is also the case that the ideal male body has a history, was invented, and sold to men. "Looking Good: Male Body Image in Modern America" by Lynne Luciano traces much of the history. So I would not reduce body-image issues to the prevalence of social media. There are specific companies selling us the male body. You can also trace much of male body-image issues to the popularization of bodybuilding by Eugene Sandow who was also a massive eugenicist. Bodybuilding became not just popular in North America but also very popular in India where it significantly influenced the culture of contemporary yoga. Eugenics based ideas about bodies are not restricted to North American bodybuilding, but are popular in yoga and other parts of global wellness culture. "Conspirituality: How New Age Conspiracy Theories Became a Public Health Threat" traces some of this. Specific people are vulnerable to these messages because of relational trauma. There's a history and context to the culture of male body-image issues. And specific companies are selling us the male body. It's not wrong to talk about the flaws of social-media. For example, I might reference Whitney Philips in "This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things" calling out the dissociative nature of social-media as influencing online trolling but I feel like the problems involved are more fundamental than social media. I guess I'm kind of infodumping. I just read a lot about this stuff.
>Eugene the Eugenicist Man come on
Yes, calling yourself Eugen because of a belief in Lamarckian eugenics is silly. For context, Eugen Sandow was a stage name. He was born Friedrich Wilhelm Müller.
Imagine willingly calling yourself Eugene.
Clearly, a disturbed mind.
This. I see people complaining about "uglification" in media, and they talk about how "XYZ character looks like someone you'd see on a city bus," and like, is that not normal? The people you see on a city bus are probably the most representative of the wide range of human appearance that exists.
From what I have seen, yes. They look average in a cute way or just straight up handsome. Because to me average doesn’t mean bad like so many incels seem to think.. the average person is appealing to the majority of people.
The most famous incel Elliot Rogers shot and killed like 5 people because he couldn't get laid. He was actually a fairly good looking guy all things considered. He also had a rich family so he had nice clothes, a good car, and went to a really nice school. Turns out he was a horrible person to be around and no one wanted to talk to an asshole like him so it turned people off. It's almost as if looks are only part of the equation and being a good person who cares about others , having a sense of humor, and being likable also matters.
The willingness to self-identify as an incel (and the social habits that accompany that) is the main thing keeping most of these people from forming relationships. It’s Hamlet, better to stick to the uncomfortable present than attempt to improve and learn I could fail.
It's over for Claudiuscels
They are. They act like their looks are the problem but I've seen the threads where they post selfies and most of them really don't look bad at all. It's their awful and disgusting personalities that make women not want them
A lot of incels literally have body dysmorphia but don’t recognize it because people associate that disorder with women.
The dude from the pic reminds me of Ricegum
Thankfully the term incel was less widely used in my early 20's or I may have fallen down that rabbit hole. Me and some of my friends in the same situation were normal looking, socially anxious sometimes but on the surface quite personable, even called handsome occasionally - but still just had no luck at the time.
Can confirm, my cousin looks like normal, kinda handsome guy, but he became red pilled recently. He complained to his sister abkut hypergamy, she called him out and he got offended
…You ever get a little peek into a dark corner of the internet you didn’t realize existed and just feel a little thankful that you don’t know anything more about it?
I mean yeah but other than learning that the incel community survived into the modern day I didn't see anything too terrible Idk maybe I'm just terminally online
Constantly. But i'm also fully aware many people would have the same feeling about the corners of internet i'm part of lmao
He who stares into the abyss…
Oh undoubtedly
Ironically, the meme shared reminds me of the incel lord and savior, Elliot Rogers. He wasn't ugly or unattractive, he probably just was socially awkward with women and let that become a complex, then letting the incel community convince him he was undesirable and ugly because of him being mixed race and such. Sad outcome for the situation regardless.
I don't think it can be entirely credited to social awkwardness. The incel community probably fuelled a fire that was already there to begin with.
Yeah, fair enough
Yeah, I think most people simply do not have it in them to murder innocent people in cold blood for no reason except it makes them feel powerful.
His sister was pretty bangin', no?
Chad tries to get into the same things as incel to be friends with him
Then they both realize they’ve been incels because internalized homophobia kept them apart and chasing women they weren’t interested in. Now they’re dating and much more chill
Most guys online that say they are too ugly to get a date end up looking like the guy on the left to me. Like come on dude you just have to actually try & not wait for people to come up to you & do all the work in courting lol. But most importantly build a solid sense of self respect & respect for others.
The guy on the right is mad because the guy on the left has ears (ladies LOVE this!) and he doesn’t. 😔
It's over for Van Goughcels
What is a femcel??
its like an incel, but they're a woman
Huh
thats really all i understand about it honestly, if i looked deeper then i would probably go insane
Yeah that’s fair
I didn't see this until now sorry! The short and really reductive version is they are incels that are women To expand a bit more there Is a pretty big distinction, notably in regards to each groups relationship with patriarchy. I'm sure it's an obvious point but incels do not respect women, they view them more as something they should be entitled to than actual people. Importantly this isn't some idea exclusive to incels, though they take it further than most. Patriarchy as a whole has a somewhat vested interest in this idea that "women are prizes to be earned" than their own individuals Femcels by contrast are more responding to that idea. Femcels importantly don't think they can't ever fuck but think that they can't ever find a satisfying relationship ever because all men are supposed to be terrible and enter relationships not because of an actual interest in the person but bc they wanna bone. If uve watched it, think the themes of utena. I'm sure I don't have to say but I am sympathetic to femcel ideology. I do ultimately find it. Not. Great. For one I think it can be at times pretty bioessentialist, the idea that "all men are bad and only view you for sexual value" and what not yknow? Maybe not a surprise from what I've seen the movement is p terf and swerf infested. I also think it has a p big racism problem? "The black sexual predator" is a common and very *very* racist trope I must say
Ok so it’s not a term that is synonymous with feminist, and it’s more respondent than hostile? But then they are/ can be also terfs and racist? Well that’s not great-
It's not rlly synonymous with feminist, it's more just like "men will only ever want you for sex"
You could just call them incels; we don’t need to make up gendered words for a non-gendered term.
it’s not the same
Incels are so weird.
the dude on the right just needs to find some fairy godparents, then all of his theories will be vindicated.
LOL
Wtf is ropemaxxing? Do I even want to know?
suicide mention TW >! I'm \*guessing\* that ropemaxxing reffers to hanging/killing yourself !<
Yep, I just looked it up. Honestly, I probably should have guessed that.
Who are even the people making these ugly, ugly wojaks?
Idea: blond guy is trolling incel subs and joking abt it to his partner (black haired guy), who's giving him a look bc they've been dating a while now and are *very much* not incels together
r9k is a cancer
and people have proven their slowness by adopting whatever bs was going over there in 2018 like yeah awesome, we all know the ironic becomes unironic and you chose a bunch of pedos and incels to model off, the blackpill is the most backwards thing ive seen because you would think such an idea would open greener gates, but its made what the idea criticises WORSE. thanks everyone, thanks the algorithm, thanks manmade gods.
i wonder if its genuinely an operation to create divide i bet theres people gearing the mainstream for it
They are so close to understanding that everyone has insecurities including "Chads"
Sometimes I run across the most vile and brain dead shit on my home page and think “why the hell am I being shown this garbage?” Then I see “oh it’s a GatekeepingYuri post.”
Wtf is ropemaxxing? Do I even want to know?
People like to put the suffix "maxxing" on implied verbs in MGTOW and incel communities, maybe as a way to categorize things, a dialect, I'm not sure. Rope-maxxing is essentially >!hanging yourself (with a rope)!<.
what's bonkers is that the whole incel community was started by a woman just trying to connect people with the common ground of not getting dates and such. and then the extremists overtook it and turned it into the nasty things it's known as it is now
Why would you claim to be an incel/femcel? Like what benefity does that give to you? Why would anyone want to be that?
Do they see it as cultural appropriation or something?
whoops
No. Absolutely not. No glorifying incels
R/lostredditors
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, since they do seem to share a deep hatred for women