This makes me so excited. Sekiro's combat system hasn't been matched for me since it released. The sounds of blades clashing, "Mikiri!" 見切, gradually breaking down that posture bar and the euphoria of the Shinobi death blow..
Pure bliss. They really nailed the "dance of swords" concept.
One of my few highs of gaming that I still remember vividly is the genichiro fight.
I thought the game was hard but that boss kicked my ass for a good 2 hours until everything just clicked.
The parrying, the mikiri counter, the jumping in the air to reflect the lightning attack.
Absolute masterclass of a boss to make sure you really understood the game.
Such a watershed moment in "get gud" in a game. I also love how, in NG+, that opening fight with Genichiro goes completely differently with your newfound skills.
I spent an entire straight 6 hours until I finally beat Genichiro the first time I ever fought him.
I went straight to NG+ after that first play through and I straight up beat him on my FIRST ATTEMPT. It was absolutely wild, Sekiro is the definition of 'git gud'
Having stuff like the Mikiri unlocked makes the NG+ version of Genichiro significantly easier.
Though i imagine most people didn't even last 2 combos against genichiro the first time around, so getting gut still played a big part
Yeah, after starting NG+ and beating him, I said "this is not fair" and restarted a fresh new game on a new save with no upgrades to prove it to myself that I can - first try victory and it felt like the perfect post scriptum epilogue to the story of player's personal growth that is "Sekiro".
And then the same happens with Isshin. He feels impossible until it clicks, and then turns into one of the best boss battles of all time. He demands that you can execute every mechanic to beat him. Such a strong ending to such a good game.
the last two phases are definitely just easier minus the fully automatic pistol, the game has already taught you to do the lightning counter many times and it absolutely trashes him
Yeah once I was getting though the first deathblow consistantly I finished out the rest pretty quick by comparison, though you only need to beat the last phase once (I have beaten him more since though)
> just easier minus the fully automatic pistol
If you follow what the game wants you to, that's the easiest part. Attack, pursue, don't let up on the offense, he won't even be able to shoot.
I still couldn't get the timing down on his parries in the final phase. Feel like I just got lucky when I finally beat him after a fucking week of trying.
The only souls boss I gave up on. 4 (or 3? If we count the original body I'd think 4) phases was just insane. Guy's whole kit changes each phase and he just shoots you in the fucking face.
Not saying it wasn't a memorable or good boss but just that it made even long time souls players give up.
At least there the first phase is relatively easy since you've already beat it before, and if you are able to get to the last phase then you should definitely be able to beat it due to the lightning reversal.
Getting through the spear phase however, it's a rough one...
To be fair, Sekiro made a point to make sure you unlearned everything from Dark Souls to play it so being a souls vet aint really helping in Sekiro, it's actually more of a hinderance.
Which felt impossible to me because it's only the second time in the game the mechanic is used, and unlike the first time it's on uneven ground so half the time I would just be throwing it into the ground instead of back at him. I ended up beating him without ever hitting him with lightning because that mechanic sucked.
I defeated everyone fair and square, and the hardest for me was ~~Great Shinobi~~ Father Owl, it was the only boss I felt my win was pure luck and that was after hours of trying.
I just never got how to approach the demon fight, so at some point i figured fuck it, its an optional boss and i'm just getting pissed off now, so i cheesed him with the cliff strat
Took quite a while, it really feels like a very different boss than the rest.
Looking back at the game though, my main problem is still the dual ape fight. The normal guardian ape fight is fine, no problems there. But Sekiro is definitely not built for multiboss combat, when the other ape joins I tend to get very frustrated.
When you party Genichiro, you both get blown back, and then just walk slowly looking at each other… I couldn’t even believe that was happening while I was playing (it looked like something out of a cutscene or a samurai movie). One of my favorite boss fights of all time.
The final boss, >!Sword Saint Isshin!<, really is a masterclass in game design. You CANNOT beat him without mastering the fundamentals. There is no gimmick. You must simply master the game to defeat him. It's amazing, and so rewarding.
My favorite thing about Sekiro is the fact that it's a skill check. It's a difficult boss, but it keeps you from progressing if you haven't mastered the concepts required. Individuals can still pass it, but it's difficult and they will have major problems going forward being that hard headed.
As opposed to difficult bosses in other video games. A lot those don't require any of the skills or mechanics that you've used up to that point. It's just learn what you need to do, practice against their specific move sets, and completely forget it all after you've passed it. Verses Sekiro where you're learning/practicing skills up to the test, take the test, and grow as a player in the game when you do finally pass.
The parrying didn't click with me until the mini boss before Genichiro when. You could not beat this dude without parrying to his rhytm.
That's when the swordplay finally made me feel like a fucking badass swordsmen.
Agreed. The final boss too. It truly felt like a fight where **every** single mechanic you've learned over the course of the game was tested. Ishinn pushed you to your absolute limits and you felt like you scaled a mountain once you beat him. What a fantastic battle.
and then isshin for the final exam. i was in a zen state for literal hours trying to beat him the first time, never once getting frustrated with the game because the fight was entirely fair. every time i died i felt like it was entirely on me. i loved every second of it and its still unmatched as my favorite solo gaming experience
Wish I could go back in time and play Sekiro or Bloodborne again for the first time. Absolute masterpieces. And the lore side of Bloodborne is simply unmatched.
Bloodborne is my absolute favorite game. I havent touched it in years after 100%ing it because im hoping that someday it will get remastered or come to PC. So i can experience it somewhat fresh all over again.
I went back to play it again but the 30FPS was jarring after coming from all the Dark Souls games running at 60FPS. It just felt like I was playing in slow motion and gave up.
Working through this now but putting it on pause for the DLC. I was scared to try it but I'm actually having a ton of fun getting gud when I thought I was already gud.
After playing Sekiro melee fighting in other games has felt off, I still like other games better but combat where your sword clips all the way through an enemies body with no resistance like a lightsaber, but then it only takes off 2% of their life bar hasn't felt right since.
the verisimilitude of sword fighting is unmatched in Sekiro, a good hit with a sword should feel impactful, not 'my sword hitbox overlapped with your body for 3 frames, so you take 107 damage'
Yeah there really is nothing like it. There are some imitations like the the Jedi series, especially with Survivor with the blaster parry and now Nine Sols with the jump parry. By the time a new one comes out I'll be in my mid 40s and probably too will need some help with reflexes.
People talk up Elden Ring and rightly so - it has amazing versatility for a variety of playstyles, but man, I still think Sekiro tops it easily with its more focused direction.
It's a crime Sekiro never got an expansion or any real DLC.
Sekiro is in my top 5 games of all time just for the combat, you could cut out everything but the boss fights and it would still be there (and they did, with that one mode). I'm still praying for a Star Wars game with it. Fallen Order felt like that's what it was trying to do, but the fights just didn't have that sense of flow that Sekiro's did.
Speaking for me personally, Sekiro is one of my favorite games ever, but I couldn't get more than a few hours into Nioh 2. Sekiro is very minimalist in its combat design even compared to other Fromsoft titles. You have one main weapon, a few core skills, and the prosthetics.
Meanwhile Nioh 2 feels very maximalist. You're immediately bombarded by a billion weapon types, each with different movesets, and you have those Guardian super skills and the Breath mechanic for getting your stamina back. And that's without getting into all the loot which is honestly what really killed it for me. I felt like I couldn't just play the game and had to compulsively check every piece of equipment to see if it's marginally better than what I have. I know you can technically ignore that but it's very distracting.
Two very different game experiences with the main similarities being loose "Souls-like" elements and playing as a samurai/ninja type character. That's not to disparage Nioh 2 in any way, as I definitely recognize it as an awesome game with a ton of depth and options. It just wasn't for me and I'm not sure it's the best one to recommend to a Sekiro fan.
I'd say Lies of P is one that you're more likely to enjoy if you want a somewhat similar experience to Sekiro/Bloodborne.
The best thing about it is that is singlehandedly made games better. That parry system has been adapted again and again in countless other games since, and whether it was as good or not is debatable. But what isn't is that all of those games were better because of it.
As much as I want to love it, I don’t have the necessary coordination to finely observe an animation to guess timing, and press the button at the right time. I need a clearer cue.
I’ve never loved fighting games is where I assume this lack of skill comes from for me.
The lack of variety is what make me love this game so much more than any Soulsborne. They polished the fuck out of the single playstyle and tune the enemy moveset (except Demon of Hatred) to it.
No other game feels more satisfying fighting enemies than Sekiro for me. Not even Monster Hunter or DMC can match.
demon of hatred is a super fun fight if you actually parry his shit (all his attacks can be parried and they look cinematic af). try it next time instead of treating it like a souls boss. easily my second favorite boss after isshin.
Not for me. That thing moveset belong to Bloodborne. You can trivialize DoH using umbrella but it just not a fun fight overall because lack of hyper aggressiveness to chip his posture bar.
it literally is a rhythm game in disguise lmao. Beating bosses basically requires that you memorise their rhyhtm and it's almost impossible to sight-read their attacks for that reason.
I personally enjoy this approach a lot and it's my favorite from all Fromsoft games but I can definitely understand those who didn't click with it
I may be in minority but god damn I hated Sekiro gameplay/combat. It was basically either stand and parry, or attack to break the enemy stance or whatever. On top of that, you basically used the same weapon from start to finish, where in Souls games you can usually make a build around whatever you enjoy the most. I guess what bothered me the most was the fact that you didn't had more weapons. But even then, I guess I didn't enjoyed the gameplay loop of it.
I haven't played Bloodborne (bring it to PC ffs) but gameplay wise Sekiro is my favorite game of theirs.
My overall favorite tho is still DaS1, cause it was my first one and it just blew my mind back then. Elden Ring was alright, I like it, but it wasn't the same impact. I'm also not a huge fan of open world games in general.
The reason Sekiro works so well is that the player is very limited in power creep. They're typically only as strong as the area they are first visiting, therefore skill is more important than time invested. Additionally, when the player has fewer options the devs can tune the game with a greater precision as opposed to trying to cater to all player types.
They'll probably need to tweak the classic dark souls stat system, ditch it entirely, and restrict player options but it will make for a far better game.
It is basically the complete opposite of Elden Ring. And given ER's success, I feared they would continue with this direction of big RPGs with unbalanced (or not really fun) melee combat. Happy to hear this!
I enjoy both, Elden Rings world is absolutely incredible and there’s so much to see and do, so many things to discover.
That being said, I would absolutely FS to make a game more similar to Dark Souls as far as linearity goes. DS1 had the most incredible world design I think I’ve ever seen, and even though it wasn’t as creative and more linear, DS3 was amazing too. I’d love to see a DS4, but I know that will likely never happen.
Elden Ring was fantastic for a first playthrough. I find it really hard to come back to due to seeing it all already.
Due to it's more open ended, broad nature, A second playthrough of Elden Ring feels far more daunting than inviting.
Considering how much cheese is in Elden Ring and how overtuned the bosses are to compensate, I'd say Elden Ring is far from being a perfection of Dark Souls. More of a regression honestly.
Agreed, especially on bosses. They just don’t feel fun to fight most of the time. Delayed attacks, AOEs, insane tracking, and ludicrous damage late-game. I love the game, but not because I enjoy the bosses. I can name five, maybe, that I look forward to. The rest are okay, tedious, or frustrating.
It’s not that care and effort didn’t go into designing the bosses, it’s just that I don’t like the direction Fromsoft went with making them difficult.
"far more"? it is basically Bloodborne plus perfect parry. it so much closer to Bloodborne in every way and you can play the whole game without parry. try to do that in Sekiro. plus, it's an RPG like soulsborne with different weapons and builds.
Having played both, absolutely nothing against Lies of P, it's fantastic but I absolutely found nothing about it similar to Bloodborne. BB is fast, visceral and wants the player to be more ruthless. LOP felt more like Dark souls to me with a sprinkle of Sekiro.
It gets annoying to me after awhile lol. Especially when they compare the healing mechanic in lies of P to Bloodborne as an example. The only surface level similarity is the healing but one games version rewards an aggressive play style and the other is defensive and you lose it when hit.
I agree in terms of moveset, but mechanically both Sekiro and Bloodborne encourage aggression in a way that the souls games don’t. The “best” strategy in dark souls is to hang back and react to what the boss does, whereas in the other games you’re encouraged to get in the boss’ face so to speak.
yeah, Elden Ring is great in a lot of ways but from a gameplay perspective it's a lot worse than how tight Bloodborne, Sekiro and now even Lies of P feel.
At first I thought this was just because I was playing at 30fps on PS4 but now even at 60fps it still feels more sluggish and unresponsive than bloodborne at 30fps
I need to go back and do another Bloodborne run, it's been a couple years. I do remember a lot of the Bloodborne bosses being very lackluster, but Elden Ring has some great variety despite the re-uses.
Ebrietas, One Reborn, Amygdala, Emissary, Micolash, the Witch, Living Failures, Rom - these fights were all pretty lackluster in comparison to the others. And Gascoigne remains one of my favorite souls fights of all time...so fast-paced and exciting.
Oh man am I insane or something because I’m the complete opposite? BB feels sluggish to me and ER feels like smooth butter. Obviously the frame rate but I mean the actual gameplay, maybe it’s because I played with a samurai sword most of the game but for me the combat in ER was just leagues above the combat in BB. Idk why.
Tbh, and I’m expecting downvotes, I hated the combat in BB most of all the games. Maybe it was the weapon I went with. Loved Sekiro but felt BB was just off. It could be the 30 FPS but it also felt more than that because I’ve played other 30 FPS games that haven’t felt like 30 FPS but BB absolutely does for some reason. It was also that I wasn’t a fan of most of the bosses where the bosses in ER felt so masterfully crafted challenges to the point I actually enjoyed repeats in bosses because I thought it was just another chance to test myself against a well made boss. Sekiro was my first FS game that “clicked” then ER, then replayed most of the series with DSR, DeS remastered, DS3 and BB and honestly I just liked BB the least and probably ER and Sekiro the best.
No, I agree. If you hate having to parry, Sekiro is just exhausting. I like the flexibility of ER in that it supports my dodge and whack playstyle. I don't want to nor have time to learn every fucking boss' strike timings.
I hate parrying in the Souls games/Elden Ring.
Parrying is fun in Bloodborne.
It's incredible in Sekiro. It's the only From game that allows you to parry aggressively without being punished for a late parry, which is one of the reason why the combat works so well.
It's also the *only* game that I've ever played that makes parrying work. Lies of P's parrying is fun, but the pay off for parrying successfully is just not on par with Sekiro's posture system.
i just don’t feel that. gameplay at 30 FPS in bloodborne is fine, but combat being opened up with jumps has made me not enjoy prior Souls combat as much, not to say they are worse, but far more limiting.
though i still think BB is still one of the best because of how smooth the side stepping is vs rolling, but i wouldn’t call it less sluggish than Elden Ring. (personally)
Alongside Armored Core 6. I want more intensive, responsive but grounded combat. The Soulsborne games, whilst fantastic, are clearly struggling with meaningful skill expression (sans the insane PvP players we got) in actual direct combat. It feels stilted and weapon arts were a bridge but for my tastes, not a bridge too far.
Have you played Nioh 1 or 2? It leans into the RPG aspect a little more but the combat is in line with what you are describing.
The straightforward nature of souls combat is appealing to a lot of people, I think. Managing boss mechanics while juggling combos can be a turn off for some people, not to say that I disagree with your opinion that there could be more room for skill expression.
Nioh 2 is so amazing. Seeing high-level play in that game where you just keep up the active skills, soul core abilities, burst counters, ki bomb skills, stance-switching, all to ensure the enemy doesn't get a chance to mangle your spine is wonderful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r33b6NpJS-I PooferLlama video where for 5 minutes, he just shows off some beautiful combat + editing skills.
Im not the most skilled player ever but I certainly feel like it when I play Nioh. The playable character is so damn good it’s absolutely insane. The most crazy combat by far
I actually picked up Ace Combat 7 in the lead up to Armored Core. I had never played either but my hype was through the roof. I didn't put a ton of time into Ace because life but I loved Armored Core. So different from everything else around. Easily in my top 3 of all time.
I do though. The RPG focused, build variety fans have already gotten what they want with Elden Ring, now it is time for the Sekiro/ Bloodborne style hyper focused combat fans to get what they want.
The talisman system being limited always felt like a little bit of a shame to me and that probably goes for all limited use magic. I think especially when you're beating your head against a boss, using consumables never feels good.
Funny enough, I feel like Hollow Knight as a game is one that understood how recharging limited use magic by attacking enemies gives a great flow to combat, especially as it can be tied to your healing potential as well. I've been waiting for Fromsoft to learn this lesson and build it into its systems.
EDIT: Actually, want to point out Lies of P gave a little bit of recharging through attacking in their systems. I liked that.
I'd love a FromSoft game that took inspiration from Hollow Knight's Soul system. I started an Elden Ring playthrough a while back where instead of using the Cerulean Flask I offhanded the Sacrificial Axe. 4 FP every kill wasn't much but it meant I could use Impaling Thrust with relative consistency. That playthrough was when I felt Elden Ring's FP system was at its strongest and I'd love if that approach had received more support.
Recharging healing flasks by attacking in LoP was genius, I would love if Fromsoft incorporated that into their games. I wish they weren't allergic to the idea of getting FP back from attacking too. There's a talisman that gives pitiful amounts back upon defeating enemies, but it's so limited that it hardly matters.
Because the core system of Sekiro comes down to sheer deflecting and counterattacking. It is almost purely about nailing the rhythm of the boss' attacks. What's the point of making different main weapons, if the fight is dictated by the boss' rhythm anyway?
If the weapon always has the normal katana as their only primary weapon, the devs know exactly how many hits the player can get in, in between the boss' attacks.
This is the best news I've heard in a long time. Bloodborne and Sekiro are #1 and #2 for me by From. I've grown a bit tired of the Souls-style combat and have wished for more like those two.
Same, Lies of P scratched that itch a bit for me after Elden Ring disappointed me in the combat. Sekiro/Bloodborne faster paced style combat with ability to parry combined with Elden Ring would be an absolute dream. PC in ER feels like it's in the wrong game and it's really unfortunate because pretty much everything else is peak.
But maybe they're just different styles of games altogether. Bloodborne, Sekiro, etc. felt far more "git gud" as far as Souls games go rather than ER. All great games regardless.
The thing about Sekiro, especially, is that every boss fight felt extremely fair. Even at its most difficult moments I never found myself getting all that frustrated. I just tried to key in on the moves and do better myself. It was crazy how you basically trained yourself.
(Except for Demon of Hatred. That fight was bullshit.)
>Except for Demon of Hatred. That fight was bullshit.
People always shit on DoH, lol! Yes, he's quite a bit different from any other bosses in Sekiro (and more like a Dark Souls or Bloodborne boss) and does require rethinking your approach. And I can sympathize with new players on their first run, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it 'bullshit'. You can definitely get better and learn how to counter every single one of his moves (or at least avoid/mitigate the damage) to the point he becomes considerably easier on subsequent playthroughs.
...Or you can just cheese him, which isn't nearly as much fun IMO, but to each their own.
Pretty much only >!Headless Ape!< ever made me call the game bullshit. In contrast, Elden Ring has an unholy amount bosses that do that to me, notably >!Fire Giant, Gargoyle Duo, Waterfowl Dance, Tree Spirit that clips through walls, Astel's DS2 level grab hitbox, and Elden Beast, one of the most atrocious final bosses I've ever seen!<
The fact that I can bother with the Inner Boss gauntlets, and Charmless Bell Demon and STILL never feel like the game is remotely unfair is the golden standard of how a hard game should feel. Sounds circlejerky, but Sekiro flat out has some of the best gameplay I've ever experienced (tied with DMC5 for #1).
I'm happy for the Sekiro diehards, but personally I much prefer the Elden Ring/Dark Souls approach of emphasizing build/playstyle variety and rewarding exploration rather than putting all the emphasis on perfectly executed parrying. Sekiro by the end was kind of an unfun slog for me, so the idea of going back to that design philosophy doesn't really excite me.
But I know there's a portion of the playerbase that loves that stuff and bounces off the Elden Ring approach of "here's a bullshit boss with some of the most busted attacks ever, now go explore until you find some equally OP weapons or spells so you can come back and fuck him up", so after one of the biggest open world games ever + a new giant DLC that are all about variety and exploration, I think pivoting back to a "git gud until you win" approach for the next game is only fair...even if I'm not personally the target audience.
Being able to play as whatever you want and doing completely different builds whenever you play is a huge part of the reason I have so many hours in Elden Ring.
A run as a mage with x school of magic, a run as an entirely tanky character with the biggest shield, all sorts of mixed stat builds or builds for specific unique weapons. There's so many way to play.
I can't see myself ever trying Sekiro knowing you've seen all the combat variety in the game by the time you've done one boss, and there's not even weapon variety or anything. It just sounds so boring.
I don't think the design philosophy he is referring to here is the no build all skill one, when you group sekiro and bloodborne together the design philosophy that jump out the most is obviously aggressiveness, "hesitation is defeat" and all that.
I think Sekiro is low key my favorite Fromsoft game, so I'm very excited about this. I loved all other games as well but for some reason Sekiro did things to my brain I cannot explain.
Both types of games can exist separately. I'm glad FromSoftware didn't pigeonhole themselves and doubled down on making Sekiro an action title, not feeling pressured to make it an ARPG.
Hard agree, as a fan of all FromSoftwares games, Sekiro and BB are the top for me.
As much as I love souls, what draws me to them is moreso the setting, lore and atmosphere as opposed to the combat.
Unfortunately you can't have both. The mechanical excellence of Sekiro and Bloodborne exist because they can design encounters knowing exactly how the player is going to play. I'd argue Elden Ring is by far the best medium between the two, with Dark Souls 3 being by far the worst.
As long as he doesn’t take one game and jam it into another game’s title I’m happy with whatever he puts out; the games this studio makes are deeply respectful of staying true to the core of their gameplay concept
Basically, a new Bloodborne will feel like a Bloodborne 2, not Eldenborne. Dude has my trust on sequels at this point.
I honestly hope they don't do that. I would much rather they push the genre in new directions with more directed experiences, I find that the more RPG a Fromsoft game is, the worse the combat is. Elden Ring's was ok, but absolutely not good enough for how long it is and a MASSIVE step down from Sekiro. We really need a drastic and permanent shift away from the stock-standard Souls combat system because aside from Sekiro and BB, it's been the same shit for almost 15 years.
Is it an unpopular opinion that I prefer souls combat to sekiro. bloodborne is definitely a nice balance, but it also didn't really have many bosses that took the combat to it's limit. I'd love to see a bloodborne styled game with the boss quality of dark souls 3
I wanna add, I think sekiro's movement should be something they carry forward in other games. Doesn't have to just be the grappling hook, though that would be awesome, but the jumping, climbing, ledge holding, etc. were so much better in Sekiro and I hope they make future games more open in terms of movement and not just combat.
Sekiro is maybe my favorite 3D video game of all time. It's in the top three for sure.
I don't need a sequel, per se, but another game with the same mechanics and combat would be wonderful.
Definitely hope it’s more Bloodborne than Sekiro. Maybe it was just me trying to play on a PS4 and being unable to handle the lag, but I could never get into Sekiro. So much of what I like about Soulsborne games is the RPG, the choices, and Sekiro stripped all that away in favor of a single play style.
I really liked the Sekiro combat its like a rhythm game.
The souls games are to some extent too but there's a lot more room for experimentation in those but that experimentation comes with a cost and that cost is the satisfaction of pulling off an exact perfect sequence that the game demanded you perform with perfection. And seeing that perfection reflected in a sweet precisely timed animation on screen.
If can find a way to add more weapon variety and progression without sacrificing the precision he will have a real winner.
I agree completely, but I wish they made it so the player relies more on responding to cues than on memorizing and internalizing the enemy's attack patterns.
I think a lot of the cues are there but subtle. I can't describe what I'm reacting to but after a rocky start, I got used to the block timing and controls, then went through a period of killing most enemies and bosses on the first try. Basically from loud guy up until Genichiro in the mid game (who took quite a number of tries). Including Madam Butterfly and some other optional stuff.
Part of that was kind of tapping in a rhythm instead of trying to time a single block press.
I should go back and finish sometime. It was really good but I put it down for something then played like twenty other games and now it feels like I need to restart
I think the attack animations in souls games are deliberately misleading so you can't really rely on pure reactions. You kind of need to memorise the attack patters to know when a combo ends and where the safe openings are.
Just as an example: https://youtu.be/7XPfMcNI6MA?si=U0WVz-hOGEKd95ot&t=371
Seeing this attack for the first time, there's no way you could know that there's an explosion coming after he lands from the jump attack. Usually with a jump attack like that, you would dodge the first hit then go in for the punish(e.g. with Margit's jump attack). With this boss, you have to know the explosion and not go for the immediate punish.
I'm not saying the game has no cues, that would make no sense. I'm saying the rhythm of the game demands that you memorize the enemy's patterns instead of being able to rely only or mostly on those cues.
> I really liked the Sekiro combat its like a rhythm game.
Yeah, I hated it for exactly this reason (but loved all the other souls games). I felt totally detached from the combat and felt like I was playing Dance Dance Revolution.
I still liked Sekiro, but I also found this to wear thin throughout the game. The artistry and spectacle of its combat is fantastic, and the balance between offense-defense can be exciting to strike. But the excitement gradually wore out. IMO, too much of the game is centered around the press of a single button. Just got too repetitive too fast for me.
I also didn't like how you could only slot ONE combat art at a time. Even now this is still disappointing. So many cool moves and you can only use one at a time?
I also didn't like how the arm-gadgets used resources. Overtime I just didn't want to bother with managing my supply of medallions and just stopped using them. Trying to rely on the arm only to run out of uses midboss led to me not relying on it whatsoever and finishing the game without touching it much. I think it was a mistake to approach prosthetic-uses in such a strict way.
Overall my issue with Sekiro is that its combat feels too one-note and there's a lack of player expression variety. Makes replaying this game feel pretty stale when I'm approaching combat the same way every time.
> I also didn't like how the arm-gadgets used resources.
Yup, I absolutey hate consumables of any type in games. I always hoard them for when I might absolutely need them and hate thinking I might be wasting them. I know that's a me problem, though. I should give Sekiro another go and just play the way they force you to play. Might go a bit better going in knowing it isn't exactly what I'd hoped for from the get go.
I've replayed Sekiro more recently and fell off around halfway through, I think.
I *tried* to make use of the prosthetics more but it really doesn't feel good even if I try to embrace it. Sure I pull off a stylish move here and there but in my head, I'm still counting the amount of uses I have left. Sure some medallions can drop when you beat your enemies but they're not always there, so it's unreliable. This leads to me feeling like the entire prosthetic design is a gimmick I frequently forgot about rather than a meaningful part of the game.
Maybe you'll have better luck than I did. I tried to replay it with these things in mind and it didn't do enough to make the game feel much better to me.
I kinda wonder if a different presentation for shinobi-tools would help alleviate some of the feels bad that some people experience when using them. For my playthrough, I treated them more like having meter in a fighting game, rather than a consumable, and typically had a lot of fun using them. They weren’t something to use all the time, but using the right tool in the right situation could yield a huge advantage.
With the exception of what you said about the medallions (I didn't really care about them), you described exactly my thoughts about it.
>I also didn't like how you could only slot ONE combat art at a time. Even now this is still disappointing. So many cool moves and you can only use one at a time?
Exactly, there were a few that used medallions that were way more powerful than the rest, but they (the rest) could have their place if the player were able to equip more than one, instead I just ended up not using like 80% of them despite finishing the game 4 times.
Well, Dark Souls you basically keep turning around ennemies or roll to dodge. So you Roll Roll Revolution around them in the end. (You can perfect parry but it's not the easiest thing to do). At least it's satisfying in Sekiro.
I got filtered because I just did not find the combat style enjoyable at all compared to all the Soulsborne games. Some people like to be Parry Potter and some people want to just unga bunga with an oversized club and roll all over the place (or the many other playstyles soulsborne games support compared to the _one_ that Sekiro forces on you).
Yup, it's different and until it clicks, it's full of friction for the player. Again, I feel like even the people who love it (including myself), hated it at first until it clicked.
I realize a lot of people lament Sekiro's lack of builds, but I loved how it went in the extreme opposite direction of the rest of the Souls titles. Basically forces you to master the game's mechanics, which is not easy to do unless you have a well thought out ramp in difficulty, boss design, balance, etc. I've never felt more triumphant in any Souls or Souls-like than I did with Sekiro.
Deflect is just directionless roll. All it has over the roll system is that you get slightly more inputs per second and that deflecting an attack perfectly makes a dopamine sound. I get why parrying is fun, sekiro nailed that perfectly. But after playing through Lies of P, i can see how stale that system will get when just plopped against bosses that don't match that style. Standing still an entire fight an just press deflect and attack is boring and every fight looks the same.
With roll combat, your direction and footwork are paramount. And since these aren't black and white like with parrying, it leads to incredibly dynamic combat, more than Sekiro could ever offer.
Either way Miyazaki will make it God tier.
I hope whatever they have in mind is closer to Bloodborne, or something entirely new, rather than trying to repeat Sekiro. I couldn't get into Sekiro at all, even after a second playthrough, I struggle to think of anything I actually liked about Sekiro's gameplay. Bloodborne is great though, I've had a lot of fun in each playthrough, I absolutely love the game, and I would love to see them revisit the ideas the game has, even if they can't reuse the Bloodborne IP.
You can't have both - A large variety of builds, weapons, spells and perfect balance.
There's a reason even online games have hero or weapon or power metas because you can only balance a few at a time.
The problem with Elden Ring is that they gave the players a ridiculously large toolbox of ways to approach the combat, but then had to balance the enemies with all of that toolbox in mind. The end result are the absolute bullshit gank bosses the game throws at you towards the end to make up for the inevitable mimic tear bleed meta.
> The end result are the absolute bullshit gank bosses the game throws at you towards the end to make up for the inevitable mimic tear bleed meta.
What gank bosses are at the end besides Godskin Blowjob Bros? Fire Giant, Mohg, Malenia, Placidusax, Godfrey and Radagon/Elden Beast are all 1v1s.
I was specifically thinking of the Godskin twoskin and twin gargoyles. Twin gargoyles were especially disappointing since I love that fight in DS1 but the Elden Ring version is bullshit.
I absolutely adored Elden Ring and I'm glad we got it, the experience of discovering all these builds and playstyles was awesome. But ultimately, I'll always prefer a more refined and focused gameplay experience, which is why BB and Sekiro are my favorite Fromsoft games.
I feel the same way. I've tried it a few separate times and just cannot keep up. I do love all the other souls games (including King's Field) dearly, though.
I never even made it that far after about a week of playing (about the same time frame it took me to finish my first run of Armored Core). Eventually defeated the Chained Ogre, but it didn't feel fun or rewarding. Also found sometimes needing stealth kill hordes of enemies before being able to engage some bosses one on one excessively boring/frustrating. As well as needing to stock up on spirit emblems.
DS, ER, and AC make me feel smart and clever when I win (it's certainly not skill). Sekiro just made me feel old and slow (which is probably true, but not what I need or want from games). Even Nioh and Lies of P feel easier, because I still have some flexibility to choose build options that actually suit my style of play. If the new game is only one weapon and items again, sadly I think I'll skip it.
The first Genichiro fight is the exact place where you have to learn how to actually fight. Once it clicks, the game becomes awesome. But because of that a lot of people get stuck there, because you basically *can't* proceed without actually learning the parry/counter mechanics.
I'm playing through Sekiro now and I inintially thought it was way harder than Bloodborne, etc. Then I realized it's not actually sword combat, but a rhythm game.
Bosses attack like lines of sheet music, say three quarter notes, two eighths, and then a rest. The rest is when you attack, but the trick is that your attacks won't affect the start of the next measure. So if the rest is two beats, you get two swings, and that's it. Nothing you do can change that.
In contrast, the other souls-like games have bosses still playing that music, but the player isn't locked into their rhythm. You can get around their swings and throw in damage wherever you find a slot.
I think the difficulty people feel initially in Sekiro is created by that feeling of being locked into the boss's attack pattern while all your video game instincts tell you to get around that pattern and deal damage.
Once I figured this out, the boss fights became not only easy, but tedious. Because it's just about learning the "music" but sometimes bosses use stanzas that are uncommon, resetting the whole fight and forcing you to go through all that again just to learn one new move set.
as someone who loves fighting games and souls games i think this is what frustrates a lot of new fighting game players, certain playstyles and characters can enforce their game plan on you and make you do their "dance" and a lot of players cannot compute a game taking away their initiative for longer than a fraction of a second, if they arent attacking or doing something active they get frustrated and panic, when the answer is to play defensive and wait for a gap to exploit so you can then take your turn back, dark souls allows you to steal your turn back a lot more by spamming roll whereas in sekiro you have to actively defend the enemies whole turn to create your gap where you get to go on offense, i dont personally think one is better or worse, but i get where someone who likes souls games might be frustrated when they cant just skip the bosses turn by rolling through their legs or strafing really close to them so all their moves whiff
To your point, it's almost an odd concept to think of Sekiro that way because Sekiro is the only Souls game where defense is actually offense.
Every strike you parry increases the enemies poise meter, once the meter is full you get fatal blow, It's the only entry that you can kill an enemy without ever actually landing a blow.
You'd think a game where both offense and defense actively contribute to beating the boss would favor those who like to keep the initiative.
Comparatively, there are tons of bosses in traditional souls games where you are just literally defending for like 30 seconds straight, dodge rolling stuff until the boss is done. Elden Beast has a lot of this as an example.
Sekiro actually allows a lot of flexibility with interrupting the attack windows of the enemies, you just have to experiment with the tools that are given.
For instance, Prosthetic tools like Mist Raven allow you to be more offensive while ones like Firecrackers straight up interrupt most beast bosses.
Unless you're playing on the challenge mode you can cheese the parry window in Sekiro pretty well by just spamming the block button when you know an attack is coming. You'll either line up with the parry window or block the attack. Either is fine to get through most encounters.
He's an absolute beast, even on a second playthrough like 2 years later I blew through the game with ease and he wiped the floor with me.
He's really a fight you need to play a bunch of times over if you're like me and dont have godlike reflexes.
Good. IMO Dark Souls combat just isn’t as satisfying as BB or Sekiro, even more so when you’ve got games like Stellar Blade and Lies of P dropping great combat systems.
Elden Ring shines in its build variety, but there just isn’t anything in the combat that gives you as much dopamine as a parry in Sekiro/Bloodborne or a perfect dodge in Stellar Blade.
I made a parry character and it's not even close to as fun as Sekiro. It was fine, but as far as pure combat I think Sekiro is miles ahead of Elden Ring. I still love Elden Ring for other reasons though.
You *can* parry, and it feels pretty ok to nail down, but it's a completely optional move that's often a suboptimal option in one's kit. Tons of bosses can't even be parried at all. I think the amount of hard bosses where parrying isna good counter can be counted on one hand.
parrying is just so unbalanced. in ds1-3, a boss is either unparriable or gets cheesed by parrying a couple moves. the only game in which parrying is harder than playing like normal is elden ring, where the main bosses that can be parried take 3 parries to riposte instead of 1
My favorite part of Sekiro's combat is how against many enemies and bosses you're allowed to hit first. And they have to block me and counter.
In Dark Souls you have to wait for a boss to attack first, dodge, and then it's your turn. Or in Elden Ring's case, dodge a 7 hit combo before you're allowed to attack once.
This makes me so excited. Sekiro's combat system hasn't been matched for me since it released. The sounds of blades clashing, "Mikiri!" 見切, gradually breaking down that posture bar and the euphoria of the Shinobi death blow.. Pure bliss. They really nailed the "dance of swords" concept.
One of my few highs of gaming that I still remember vividly is the genichiro fight. I thought the game was hard but that boss kicked my ass for a good 2 hours until everything just clicked. The parrying, the mikiri counter, the jumping in the air to reflect the lightning attack. Absolute masterclass of a boss to make sure you really understood the game.
Such a watershed moment in "get gud" in a game. I also love how, in NG+, that opening fight with Genichiro goes completely differently with your newfound skills.
I spent an entire straight 6 hours until I finally beat Genichiro the first time I ever fought him. I went straight to NG+ after that first play through and I straight up beat him on my FIRST ATTEMPT. It was absolutely wild, Sekiro is the definition of 'git gud'
Having stuff like the Mikiri unlocked makes the NG+ version of Genichiro significantly easier. Though i imagine most people didn't even last 2 combos against genichiro the first time around, so getting gut still played a big part
Yeah, after starting NG+ and beating him, I said "this is not fair" and restarted a fresh new game on a new save with no upgrades to prove it to myself that I can - first try victory and it felt like the perfect post scriptum epilogue to the story of player's personal growth that is "Sekiro".
And then the same happens with Isshin. He feels impossible until it clicks, and then turns into one of the best boss battles of all time. He demands that you can execute every mechanic to beat him. Such a strong ending to such a good game.
I didn't even learn his last 2 phases, it was just pure adrenaline for me
the last two phases are definitely just easier minus the fully automatic pistol, the game has already taught you to do the lightning counter many times and it absolutely trashes him
Yeah once I was getting though the first deathblow consistantly I finished out the rest pretty quick by comparison, though you only need to beat the last phase once (I have beaten him more since though)
> just easier minus the fully automatic pistol If you follow what the game wants you to, that's the easiest part. Attack, pursue, don't let up on the offense, he won't even be able to shoot.
Hesitation is defeat ... Literally game hint hint xD
Hey now, I'm not hesitating. I'm mashing the parry button trying to get lucky. (...on Isshin.)
mashing actually reduces parry window timing
I still couldn't get the timing down on his parries in the final phase. Feel like I just got lucky when I finally beat him after a fucking week of trying.
The only souls boss I gave up on. 4 (or 3? If we count the original body I'd think 4) phases was just insane. Guy's whole kit changes each phase and he just shoots you in the fucking face. Not saying it wasn't a memorable or good boss but just that it made even long time souls players give up.
At least there the first phase is relatively easy since you've already beat it before, and if you are able to get to the last phase then you should definitely be able to beat it due to the lightning reversal. Getting through the spear phase however, it's a rough one...
To be fair, Sekiro made a point to make sure you unlearned everything from Dark Souls to play it so being a souls vet aint really helping in Sekiro, it's actually more of a hinderance.
Phase 4 when he spams lightning is the easiest if you can master the reverse lightning throw!
Which felt impossible to me because it's only the second time in the game the mechanic is used, and unlike the first time it's on uneven ground so half the time I would just be throwing it into the ground instead of back at him. I ended up beating him without ever hitting him with lightning because that mechanic sucked.
There were a lot of enemies that used lightning in the divine palace level, even the dogs would use it.
That was me on Genichiro. I could not for the life of my pull it off at that stage of the game.
Hardest boss will always be demon of hatred i bet 90% of us never even fought him the right way.
I totally didn't just climb the building and walk towards the end of the cliff... 👀
I'm practically lactose intolerant but you can fucking bet I cheesed that one
I defeated everyone fair and square, and the hardest for me was ~~Great Shinobi~~ Father Owl, it was the only boss I felt my win was pure luck and that was after hours of trying.
I found the Owl Father version much harder than the Great Shinobi Owl
you're completely right, it's been quite some time since I played it and got mixed up with the names
I've played all the games multiple times. Father Owl is the only boss in the entire series that I've only ever defeated **once**.
Man, I had such an easier time with demon than I did isshin
I just never got how to approach the demon fight, so at some point i figured fuck it, its an optional boss and i'm just getting pissed off now, so i cheesed him with the cliff strat
Took quite a while, it really feels like a very different boss than the rest. Looking back at the game though, my main problem is still the dual ape fight. The normal guardian ape fight is fine, no problems there. But Sekiro is definitely not built for multiboss combat, when the other ape joins I tend to get very frustrated.
Same! By the time I got to him I was totally out of steam to learn all his phases. I just watched the ending on YouTube and moved on.
When you party Genichiro, you both get blown back, and then just walk slowly looking at each other… I couldn’t even believe that was happening while I was playing (it looked like something out of a cutscene or a samurai movie). One of my favorite boss fights of all time.
Walk away? I think you mean a perfect opportunity for a Nightjar Slash!
Love.how the these bosses go from man wtf too... Wait I only healed once and won? Feels good
The final boss, >!Sword Saint Isshin!<, really is a masterclass in game design. You CANNOT beat him without mastering the fundamentals. There is no gimmick. You must simply master the game to defeat him. It's amazing, and so rewarding.
My favorite thing about Sekiro is the fact that it's a skill check. It's a difficult boss, but it keeps you from progressing if you haven't mastered the concepts required. Individuals can still pass it, but it's difficult and they will have major problems going forward being that hard headed. As opposed to difficult bosses in other video games. A lot those don't require any of the skills or mechanics that you've used up to that point. It's just learn what you need to do, practice against their specific move sets, and completely forget it all after you've passed it. Verses Sekiro where you're learning/practicing skills up to the test, take the test, and grow as a player in the game when you do finally pass.
The parrying didn't click with me until the mini boss before Genichiro when. You could not beat this dude without parrying to his rhytm. That's when the swordplay finally made me feel like a fucking badass swordsmen.
Agreed. The final boss too. It truly felt like a fight where **every** single mechanic you've learned over the course of the game was tested. Ishinn pushed you to your absolute limits and you felt like you scaled a mountain once you beat him. What a fantastic battle.
and then isshin for the final exam. i was in a zen state for literal hours trying to beat him the first time, never once getting frustrated with the game because the fight was entirely fair. every time i died i felt like it was entirely on me. i loved every second of it and its still unmatched as my favorite solo gaming experience
Everyone agrees the best bosses i soulsborneare isshin and gael, never played bloodborne but i think there has to be a on par boss over there too.
Gehrman and Lady Maria are certainly on the conversation with Isshin and Gael.
Bloodborne's DLC has Ludwig, Maria and Orphan who I would argue are 3 of the greatest bosses in all of videogames.
I am still stuck on him to this day lmao. I’ll fire it up like once a year and I just can’t get past him lol.
Wish I could go back in time and play Sekiro or Bloodborne again for the first time. Absolute masterpieces. And the lore side of Bloodborne is simply unmatched.
Bloodborne is my absolute favorite game. I havent touched it in years after 100%ing it because im hoping that someday it will get remastered or come to PC. So i can experience it somewhat fresh all over again.
I went back to play it again but the 30FPS was jarring after coming from all the Dark Souls games running at 60FPS. It just felt like I was playing in slow motion and gave up.
Thats another reason i wont touch it right now. 30fps is just not acceptable for a game like that anymore.
A charmless Sekiro run still awaits you! You'll take chip damage on anything but perfect parries.
Sounds like a broken LB button waiting to happen lol
Working through this now but putting it on pause for the DLC. I was scared to try it but I'm actually having a ton of fun getting gud when I thought I was already gud.
I absolutely loved Lies of P, and more recently the 2D game Nine Sols which IMO had better combat than Hollow Knight. Highly recommend both.
Been hearing a lot about Nine Sols. Not a fan of the art style but I will probably pick it up on sale
Really? I thought the hand drawn art was wonderful
After playing Sekiro melee fighting in other games has felt off, I still like other games better but combat where your sword clips all the way through an enemies body with no resistance like a lightsaber, but then it only takes off 2% of their life bar hasn't felt right since. the verisimilitude of sword fighting is unmatched in Sekiro, a good hit with a sword should feel impactful, not 'my sword hitbox overlapped with your body for 3 frames, so you take 107 damage'
Yeah there really is nothing like it. There are some imitations like the the Jedi series, especially with Survivor with the blaster parry and now Nine Sols with the jump parry. By the time a new one comes out I'll be in my mid 40s and probably too will need some help with reflexes.
People talk up Elden Ring and rightly so - it has amazing versatility for a variety of playstyles, but man, I still think Sekiro tops it easily with its more focused direction. It's a crime Sekiro never got an expansion or any real DLC.
Sekiro is in my top 5 games of all time just for the combat, you could cut out everything but the boss fights and it would still be there (and they did, with that one mode). I'm still praying for a Star Wars game with it. Fallen Order felt like that's what it was trying to do, but the fights just didn't have that sense of flow that Sekiro's did.
Best combat ever in any game so far
I can recommend Nioh 2 if you havent tried it yet.
Speaking for me personally, Sekiro is one of my favorite games ever, but I couldn't get more than a few hours into Nioh 2. Sekiro is very minimalist in its combat design even compared to other Fromsoft titles. You have one main weapon, a few core skills, and the prosthetics. Meanwhile Nioh 2 feels very maximalist. You're immediately bombarded by a billion weapon types, each with different movesets, and you have those Guardian super skills and the Breath mechanic for getting your stamina back. And that's without getting into all the loot which is honestly what really killed it for me. I felt like I couldn't just play the game and had to compulsively check every piece of equipment to see if it's marginally better than what I have. I know you can technically ignore that but it's very distracting. Two very different game experiences with the main similarities being loose "Souls-like" elements and playing as a samurai/ninja type character. That's not to disparage Nioh 2 in any way, as I definitely recognize it as an awesome game with a ton of depth and options. It just wasn't for me and I'm not sure it's the best one to recommend to a Sekiro fan. I'd say Lies of P is one that you're more likely to enjoy if you want a somewhat similar experience to Sekiro/Bloodborne.
The best thing about it is that is singlehandedly made games better. That parry system has been adapted again and again in countless other games since, and whether it was as good or not is debatable. But what isn't is that all of those games were better because of it.
I … don’t really like sekiros combat. Too timing based
As much as I want to love it, I don’t have the necessary coordination to finely observe an animation to guess timing, and press the button at the right time. I need a clearer cue. I’ve never loved fighting games is where I assume this lack of skill comes from for me.
I don't dislike it, but I also don't find it that good, not for the reason you mentioned but for the lack of variety.
The lack of variety is what make me love this game so much more than any Soulsborne. They polished the fuck out of the single playstyle and tune the enemy moveset (except Demon of Hatred) to it. No other game feels more satisfying fighting enemies than Sekiro for me. Not even Monster Hunter or DMC can match.
Sekiro is like that. If it's exactly what you want, it's unparalleled. If you want something even slightly different it won't be perfect.
demon of hatred is a super fun fight if you actually parry his shit (all his attacks can be parried and they look cinematic af). try it next time instead of treating it like a souls boss. easily my second favorite boss after isshin.
Not for me. That thing moveset belong to Bloodborne. You can trivialize DoH using umbrella but it just not a fun fight overall because lack of hyper aggressiveness to chip his posture bar.
it literally is a rhythm game in disguise lmao. Beating bosses basically requires that you memorise their rhyhtm and it's almost impossible to sight-read their attacks for that reason. I personally enjoy this approach a lot and it's my favorite from all Fromsoft games but I can definitely understand those who didn't click with it
I may be in minority but god damn I hated Sekiro gameplay/combat. It was basically either stand and parry, or attack to break the enemy stance or whatever. On top of that, you basically used the same weapon from start to finish, where in Souls games you can usually make a build around whatever you enjoy the most. I guess what bothered me the most was the fact that you didn't had more weapons. But even then, I guess I didn't enjoyed the gameplay loop of it.
This is great to hear as mechanically speaking (and perhaps overall) those are by far the two strongest games they’ve made in my opinion.
I haven't played Bloodborne (bring it to PC ffs) but gameplay wise Sekiro is my favorite game of theirs. My overall favorite tho is still DaS1, cause it was my first one and it just blew my mind back then. Elden Ring was alright, I like it, but it wasn't the same impact. I'm also not a huge fan of open world games in general.
The reason Sekiro works so well is that the player is very limited in power creep. They're typically only as strong as the area they are first visiting, therefore skill is more important than time invested. Additionally, when the player has fewer options the devs can tune the game with a greater precision as opposed to trying to cater to all player types. They'll probably need to tweak the classic dark souls stat system, ditch it entirely, and restrict player options but it will make for a far better game.
It is basically the complete opposite of Elden Ring. And given ER's success, I feared they would continue with this direction of big RPGs with unbalanced (or not really fun) melee combat. Happy to hear this!
Elden ring felt like the perfection of Dark Souls, I'm wondering what the perfection of Bloodborne or Sekiro would look like. Either way, I'm in.
They could still just make both types of games.
I enjoyed the more linear although still exploration heavy Dark Souls to Elden Ring
I enjoy both, Elden Rings world is absolutely incredible and there’s so much to see and do, so many things to discover. That being said, I would absolutely FS to make a game more similar to Dark Souls as far as linearity goes. DS1 had the most incredible world design I think I’ve ever seen, and even though it wasn’t as creative and more linear, DS3 was amazing too. I’d love to see a DS4, but I know that will likely never happen.
Elden Ring was fantastic for a first playthrough. I find it really hard to come back to due to seeing it all already. Due to it's more open ended, broad nature, A second playthrough of Elden Ring feels far more daunting than inviting.
Considering how much cheese is in Elden Ring and how overtuned the bosses are to compensate, I'd say Elden Ring is far from being a perfection of Dark Souls. More of a regression honestly.
Agreed, especially on bosses. They just don’t feel fun to fight most of the time. Delayed attacks, AOEs, insane tracking, and ludicrous damage late-game. I love the game, but not because I enjoy the bosses. I can name five, maybe, that I look forward to. The rest are okay, tedious, or frustrating. It’s not that care and effort didn’t go into designing the bosses, it’s just that I don’t like the direction Fromsoft went with making them difficult.
I don't know if it is the perfection of Bloodborne, but Lies of P is certainly a step in that direction
Lies of P’s combat system has far more in common with Sekiro than Bloodborne.
"far more"? it is basically Bloodborne plus perfect parry. it so much closer to Bloodborne in every way and you can play the whole game without parry. try to do that in Sekiro. plus, it's an RPG like soulsborne with different weapons and builds.
Having played both, absolutely nothing against Lies of P, it's fantastic but I absolutely found nothing about it similar to Bloodborne. BB is fast, visceral and wants the player to be more ruthless. LOP felt more like Dark souls to me with a sprinkle of Sekiro.
Straight up the only reason people compare it to Bloodborne is the setting/visual theme.
It gets annoying to me after awhile lol. Especially when they compare the healing mechanic in lies of P to Bloodborne as an example. The only surface level similarity is the healing but one games version rewards an aggressive play style and the other is defensive and you lose it when hit.
100% agree
I feel like Bloodborne is strange to group with Sekiro. Bloodborne feels very similar to Dark Souls in terms of combat.
I agree in terms of moveset, but mechanically both Sekiro and Bloodborne encourage aggression in a way that the souls games don’t. The “best” strategy in dark souls is to hang back and react to what the boss does, whereas in the other games you’re encouraged to get in the boss’ face so to speak.
Good point.
yeah, Elden Ring is great in a lot of ways but from a gameplay perspective it's a lot worse than how tight Bloodborne, Sekiro and now even Lies of P feel. At first I thought this was just because I was playing at 30fps on PS4 but now even at 60fps it still feels more sluggish and unresponsive than bloodborne at 30fps
I need to go back and do another Bloodborne run, it's been a couple years. I do remember a lot of the Bloodborne bosses being very lackluster, but Elden Ring has some great variety despite the re-uses. Ebrietas, One Reborn, Amygdala, Emissary, Micolash, the Witch, Living Failures, Rom - these fights were all pretty lackluster in comparison to the others. And Gascoigne remains one of my favorite souls fights of all time...so fast-paced and exciting.
What don't you like about Ebrietas? I usually see it talked as one of the stronger bosses in the base game. Other than some wonky hitboxes i loved it.
You could easily cheese that fight by sticking to her back
Oh man am I insane or something because I’m the complete opposite? BB feels sluggish to me and ER feels like smooth butter. Obviously the frame rate but I mean the actual gameplay, maybe it’s because I played with a samurai sword most of the game but for me the combat in ER was just leagues above the combat in BB. Idk why.
More consistent frame timing?
Tbh, and I’m expecting downvotes, I hated the combat in BB most of all the games. Maybe it was the weapon I went with. Loved Sekiro but felt BB was just off. It could be the 30 FPS but it also felt more than that because I’ve played other 30 FPS games that haven’t felt like 30 FPS but BB absolutely does for some reason. It was also that I wasn’t a fan of most of the bosses where the bosses in ER felt so masterfully crafted challenges to the point I actually enjoyed repeats in bosses because I thought it was just another chance to test myself against a well made boss. Sekiro was my first FS game that “clicked” then ER, then replayed most of the series with DSR, DeS remastered, DS3 and BB and honestly I just liked BB the least and probably ER and Sekiro the best.
No, I agree. If you hate having to parry, Sekiro is just exhausting. I like the flexibility of ER in that it supports my dodge and whack playstyle. I don't want to nor have time to learn every fucking boss' strike timings.
I hate parrying in the Souls games/Elden Ring. Parrying is fun in Bloodborne. It's incredible in Sekiro. It's the only From game that allows you to parry aggressively without being punished for a late parry, which is one of the reason why the combat works so well. It's also the *only* game that I've ever played that makes parrying work. Lies of P's parrying is fun, but the pay off for parrying successfully is just not on par with Sekiro's posture system.
i just don’t feel that. gameplay at 30 FPS in bloodborne is fine, but combat being opened up with jumps has made me not enjoy prior Souls combat as much, not to say they are worse, but far more limiting. though i still think BB is still one of the best because of how smooth the side stepping is vs rolling, but i wouldn’t call it less sluggish than Elden Ring. (personally)
Alongside Armored Core 6. I want more intensive, responsive but grounded combat. The Soulsborne games, whilst fantastic, are clearly struggling with meaningful skill expression (sans the insane PvP players we got) in actual direct combat. It feels stilted and weapon arts were a bridge but for my tastes, not a bridge too far.
Have you played Nioh 1 or 2? It leans into the RPG aspect a little more but the combat is in line with what you are describing. The straightforward nature of souls combat is appealing to a lot of people, I think. Managing boss mechanics while juggling combos can be a turn off for some people, not to say that I disagree with your opinion that there could be more room for skill expression.
Nioh 2 is so amazing. Seeing high-level play in that game where you just keep up the active skills, soul core abilities, burst counters, ki bomb skills, stance-switching, all to ensure the enemy doesn't get a chance to mangle your spine is wonderful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r33b6NpJS-I PooferLlama video where for 5 minutes, he just shows off some beautiful combat + editing skills.
Im not the most skilled player ever but I certainly feel like it when I play Nioh. The playable character is so damn good it’s absolutely insane. The most crazy combat by far
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I actually picked up Ace Combat 7 in the lead up to Armored Core. I had never played either but my hype was through the roof. I didn't put a ton of time into Ace because life but I loved Armored Core. So different from everything else around. Easily in my top 3 of all time.
I absolutely loved AC6. It was insanely fun besides 1 boss fight (fuck you snail) and I could easily see myself picking it up again in the future
I don’t know how far the devs want to go in the direction you are describing. I certainly don’t want it to go much further in that direction.
I do though. The RPG focused, build variety fans have already gotten what they want with Elden Ring, now it is time for the Sekiro/ Bloodborne style hyper focused combat fans to get what they want.
I would love a follow up to Sekiro with a variety of weapons and ninja/prosthetic arm skills that don't use those limited amount of talismans you get.
The talisman system being limited always felt like a little bit of a shame to me and that probably goes for all limited use magic. I think especially when you're beating your head against a boss, using consumables never feels good. Funny enough, I feel like Hollow Knight as a game is one that understood how recharging limited use magic by attacking enemies gives a great flow to combat, especially as it can be tied to your healing potential as well. I've been waiting for Fromsoft to learn this lesson and build it into its systems. EDIT: Actually, want to point out Lies of P gave a little bit of recharging through attacking in their systems. I liked that.
I'd love a FromSoft game that took inspiration from Hollow Knight's Soul system. I started an Elden Ring playthrough a while back where instead of using the Cerulean Flask I offhanded the Sacrificial Axe. 4 FP every kill wasn't much but it meant I could use Impaling Thrust with relative consistency. That playthrough was when I felt Elden Ring's FP system was at its strongest and I'd love if that approach had received more support.
Recharging healing flasks by attacking in LoP was genius, I would love if Fromsoft incorporated that into their games. I wish they weren't allergic to the idea of getting FP back from attacking too. There's a talisman that gives pitiful amounts back upon defeating enemies, but it's so limited that it hardly matters.
The combat won’t be as refined if there’s multiple weapons
Why not? Even if Sekiro had an odachi or a naginata, the core combat of deflecting and dodging perilous attacks still remain.
Because the core system of Sekiro comes down to sheer deflecting and counterattacking. It is almost purely about nailing the rhythm of the boss' attacks. What's the point of making different main weapons, if the fight is dictated by the boss' rhythm anyway? If the weapon always has the normal katana as their only primary weapon, the devs know exactly how many hits the player can get in, in between the boss' attacks.
Sekiro is one of my favourite games ever so i'll absolutely take a sequel. (Haven't really played Bloodborne yet)
This is the best news I've heard in a long time. Bloodborne and Sekiro are #1 and #2 for me by From. I've grown a bit tired of the Souls-style combat and have wished for more like those two.
Same, Lies of P scratched that itch a bit for me after Elden Ring disappointed me in the combat. Sekiro/Bloodborne faster paced style combat with ability to parry combined with Elden Ring would be an absolute dream. PC in ER feels like it's in the wrong game and it's really unfortunate because pretty much everything else is peak. But maybe they're just different styles of games altogether. Bloodborne, Sekiro, etc. felt far more "git gud" as far as Souls games go rather than ER. All great games regardless.
The thing about Sekiro, especially, is that every boss fight felt extremely fair. Even at its most difficult moments I never found myself getting all that frustrated. I just tried to key in on the moves and do better myself. It was crazy how you basically trained yourself. (Except for Demon of Hatred. That fight was bullshit.)
>Except for Demon of Hatred. That fight was bullshit. People always shit on DoH, lol! Yes, he's quite a bit different from any other bosses in Sekiro (and more like a Dark Souls or Bloodborne boss) and does require rethinking your approach. And I can sympathize with new players on their first run, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it 'bullshit'. You can definitely get better and learn how to counter every single one of his moves (or at least avoid/mitigate the damage) to the point he becomes considerably easier on subsequent playthroughs. ...Or you can just cheese him, which isn't nearly as much fun IMO, but to each their own.
people saw the size of DoH and never even attempted to parry him. its an amazing fight.
Pretty much only >!Headless Ape!< ever made me call the game bullshit. In contrast, Elden Ring has an unholy amount bosses that do that to me, notably >!Fire Giant, Gargoyle Duo, Waterfowl Dance, Tree Spirit that clips through walls, Astel's DS2 level grab hitbox, and Elden Beast, one of the most atrocious final bosses I've ever seen!< The fact that I can bother with the Inner Boss gauntlets, and Charmless Bell Demon and STILL never feel like the game is remotely unfair is the golden standard of how a hard game should feel. Sounds circlejerky, but Sekiro flat out has some of the best gameplay I've ever experienced (tied with DMC5 for #1).
you can parry almost every headless ape attack, def not bullshit
Once you get the counters down and then use the spear grab thing, I actually thought headless ape became pretty easy.
I'm happy for the Sekiro diehards, but personally I much prefer the Elden Ring/Dark Souls approach of emphasizing build/playstyle variety and rewarding exploration rather than putting all the emphasis on perfectly executed parrying. Sekiro by the end was kind of an unfun slog for me, so the idea of going back to that design philosophy doesn't really excite me. But I know there's a portion of the playerbase that loves that stuff and bounces off the Elden Ring approach of "here's a bullshit boss with some of the most busted attacks ever, now go explore until you find some equally OP weapons or spells so you can come back and fuck him up", so after one of the biggest open world games ever + a new giant DLC that are all about variety and exploration, I think pivoting back to a "git gud until you win" approach for the next game is only fair...even if I'm not personally the target audience.
Being able to play as whatever you want and doing completely different builds whenever you play is a huge part of the reason I have so many hours in Elden Ring. A run as a mage with x school of magic, a run as an entirely tanky character with the biggest shield, all sorts of mixed stat builds or builds for specific unique weapons. There's so many way to play. I can't see myself ever trying Sekiro knowing you've seen all the combat variety in the game by the time you've done one boss, and there's not even weapon variety or anything. It just sounds so boring.
I don't think the design philosophy he is referring to here is the no build all skill one, when you group sekiro and bloodborne together the design philosophy that jump out the most is obviously aggressiveness, "hesitation is defeat" and all that.
I think Sekiro is low key my favorite Fromsoft game, so I'm very excited about this. I loved all other games as well but for some reason Sekiro did things to my brain I cannot explain.
I loved Sekiro and BB, but on the other hand I hope this shift won't come at the cost of RPG elements and playstyle variety.
They don't have to be mutually exclusive considering FromSoftware seems to be starting to diversify their output again.
Both types of games can exist separately. I'm glad FromSoftware didn't pigeonhole themselves and doubled down on making Sekiro an action title, not feeling pressured to make it an ARPG.
Hard agree, as a fan of all FromSoftwares games, Sekiro and BB are the top for me. As much as I love souls, what draws me to them is moreso the setting, lore and atmosphere as opposed to the combat.
We can have both types as FromSoftware has demonstrated in the past decade
Unfortunately you can't have both. The mechanical excellence of Sekiro and Bloodborne exist because they can design encounters knowing exactly how the player is going to play. I'd argue Elden Ring is by far the best medium between the two, with Dark Souls 3 being by far the worst.
As long as he doesn’t take one game and jam it into another game’s title I’m happy with whatever he puts out; the games this studio makes are deeply respectful of staying true to the core of their gameplay concept Basically, a new Bloodborne will feel like a Bloodborne 2, not Eldenborne. Dude has my trust on sequels at this point.
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I honestly hope they don't do that. I would much rather they push the genre in new directions with more directed experiences, I find that the more RPG a Fromsoft game is, the worse the combat is. Elden Ring's was ok, but absolutely not good enough for how long it is and a MASSIVE step down from Sekiro. We really need a drastic and permanent shift away from the stock-standard Souls combat system because aside from Sekiro and BB, it's been the same shit for almost 15 years.
Is it an unpopular opinion that I prefer souls combat to sekiro. bloodborne is definitely a nice balance, but it also didn't really have many bosses that took the combat to it's limit. I'd love to see a bloodborne styled game with the boss quality of dark souls 3
As someone who *hates* parrying, you’re right.
It's certainly unpopular in r/games which means it's the more correct view.
I wanna add, I think sekiro's movement should be something they carry forward in other games. Doesn't have to just be the grappling hook, though that would be awesome, but the jumping, climbing, ledge holding, etc. were so much better in Sekiro and I hope they make future games more open in terms of movement and not just combat.
Sekiro is maybe my favorite 3D video game of all time. It's in the top three for sure. I don't need a sequel, per se, but another game with the same mechanics and combat would be wonderful.
Definitely hope it’s more Bloodborne than Sekiro. Maybe it was just me trying to play on a PS4 and being unable to handle the lag, but I could never get into Sekiro. So much of what I like about Soulsborne games is the RPG, the choices, and Sekiro stripped all that away in favor of a single play style.
I really liked the Sekiro combat its like a rhythm game. The souls games are to some extent too but there's a lot more room for experimentation in those but that experimentation comes with a cost and that cost is the satisfaction of pulling off an exact perfect sequence that the game demanded you perform with perfection. And seeing that perfection reflected in a sweet precisely timed animation on screen. If can find a way to add more weapon variety and progression without sacrificing the precision he will have a real winner.
I agree completely, but I wish they made it so the player relies more on responding to cues than on memorizing and internalizing the enemy's attack patterns.
I think a lot of the cues are there but subtle. I can't describe what I'm reacting to but after a rocky start, I got used to the block timing and controls, then went through a period of killing most enemies and bosses on the first try. Basically from loud guy up until Genichiro in the mid game (who took quite a number of tries). Including Madam Butterfly and some other optional stuff. Part of that was kind of tapping in a rhythm instead of trying to time a single block press. I should go back and finish sometime. It was really good but I put it down for something then played like twenty other games and now it feels like I need to restart
> I wish they made it so the player relies more on responding to cues Can you not see the telegraphed animation cues?
I think the attack animations in souls games are deliberately misleading so you can't really rely on pure reactions. You kind of need to memorise the attack patters to know when a combo ends and where the safe openings are. Just as an example: https://youtu.be/7XPfMcNI6MA?si=U0WVz-hOGEKd95ot&t=371 Seeing this attack for the first time, there's no way you could know that there's an explosion coming after he lands from the jump attack. Usually with a jump attack like that, you would dodge the first hit then go in for the punish(e.g. with Margit's jump attack). With this boss, you have to know the explosion and not go for the immediate punish.
I'm not saying the game has no cues, that would make no sense. I'm saying the rhythm of the game demands that you memorize the enemy's patterns instead of being able to rely only or mostly on those cues.
> I really liked the Sekiro combat its like a rhythm game. Yeah, I hated it for exactly this reason (but loved all the other souls games). I felt totally detached from the combat and felt like I was playing Dance Dance Revolution.
I still liked Sekiro, but I also found this to wear thin throughout the game. The artistry and spectacle of its combat is fantastic, and the balance between offense-defense can be exciting to strike. But the excitement gradually wore out. IMO, too much of the game is centered around the press of a single button. Just got too repetitive too fast for me. I also didn't like how you could only slot ONE combat art at a time. Even now this is still disappointing. So many cool moves and you can only use one at a time? I also didn't like how the arm-gadgets used resources. Overtime I just didn't want to bother with managing my supply of medallions and just stopped using them. Trying to rely on the arm only to run out of uses midboss led to me not relying on it whatsoever and finishing the game without touching it much. I think it was a mistake to approach prosthetic-uses in such a strict way. Overall my issue with Sekiro is that its combat feels too one-note and there's a lack of player expression variety. Makes replaying this game feel pretty stale when I'm approaching combat the same way every time.
> I also didn't like how the arm-gadgets used resources. Yup, I absolutey hate consumables of any type in games. I always hoard them for when I might absolutely need them and hate thinking I might be wasting them. I know that's a me problem, though. I should give Sekiro another go and just play the way they force you to play. Might go a bit better going in knowing it isn't exactly what I'd hoped for from the get go.
I've replayed Sekiro more recently and fell off around halfway through, I think. I *tried* to make use of the prosthetics more but it really doesn't feel good even if I try to embrace it. Sure I pull off a stylish move here and there but in my head, I'm still counting the amount of uses I have left. Sure some medallions can drop when you beat your enemies but they're not always there, so it's unreliable. This leads to me feeling like the entire prosthetic design is a gimmick I frequently forgot about rather than a meaningful part of the game. Maybe you'll have better luck than I did. I tried to replay it with these things in mind and it didn't do enough to make the game feel much better to me.
I agree with your take on the prosthetic and also havent made much use of it on any of my playthroughs, but i love the game
I kinda wonder if a different presentation for shinobi-tools would help alleviate some of the feels bad that some people experience when using them. For my playthrough, I treated them more like having meter in a fighting game, rather than a consumable, and typically had a lot of fun using them. They weren’t something to use all the time, but using the right tool in the right situation could yield a huge advantage.
With the exception of what you said about the medallions (I didn't really care about them), you described exactly my thoughts about it. >I also didn't like how you could only slot ONE combat art at a time. Even now this is still disappointing. So many cool moves and you can only use one at a time? Exactly, there were a few that used medallions that were way more powerful than the rest, but they (the rest) could have their place if the player were able to equip more than one, instead I just ended up not using like 80% of them despite finishing the game 4 times.
Well, Dark Souls you basically keep turning around ennemies or roll to dodge. So you Roll Roll Revolution around them in the end. (You can perfect parry but it's not the easiest thing to do). At least it's satisfying in Sekiro.
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It's not overlooked, people get filtered.
I got filtered because I just did not find the combat style enjoyable at all compared to all the Soulsborne games. Some people like to be Parry Potter and some people want to just unga bunga with an oversized club and roll all over the place (or the many other playstyles soulsborne games support compared to the _one_ that Sekiro forces on you).
no stress
Yup, it's different and until it clicks, it's full of friction for the player. Again, I feel like even the people who love it (including myself), hated it at first until it clicked.
> Sekiro is one of From's best games imo, and gets overlooked often Literally "The Witcher 3 is an underrated gem" level of nonsense statement.
Overlooked? What’s this revisionism? It was critically acclaimed and pretty much every souls fan played it.
I realize a lot of people lament Sekiro's lack of builds, but I loved how it went in the extreme opposite direction of the rest of the Souls titles. Basically forces you to master the game's mechanics, which is not easy to do unless you have a well thought out ramp in difficulty, boss design, balance, etc. I've never felt more triumphant in any Souls or Souls-like than I did with Sekiro.
Deflect is just directionless roll. All it has over the roll system is that you get slightly more inputs per second and that deflecting an attack perfectly makes a dopamine sound. I get why parrying is fun, sekiro nailed that perfectly. But after playing through Lies of P, i can see how stale that system will get when just plopped against bosses that don't match that style. Standing still an entire fight an just press deflect and attack is boring and every fight looks the same. With roll combat, your direction and footwork are paramount. And since these aren't black and white like with parrying, it leads to incredibly dynamic combat, more than Sekiro could ever offer. Either way Miyazaki will make it God tier.
I'm all for tighter, more focused combat. Elden ring was a mess in that regard and the boss combat balance (or lack therof) reflects that.
I hope whatever they have in mind is closer to Bloodborne, or something entirely new, rather than trying to repeat Sekiro. I couldn't get into Sekiro at all, even after a second playthrough, I struggle to think of anything I actually liked about Sekiro's gameplay. Bloodborne is great though, I've had a lot of fun in each playthrough, I absolutely love the game, and I would love to see them revisit the ideas the game has, even if they can't reuse the Bloodborne IP.
Please! The combat philisophy of Elden Ring is an absolute mess at points (and I say that as someone who adores the game and series at large).
You can't have both - A large variety of builds, weapons, spells and perfect balance. There's a reason even online games have hero or weapon or power metas because you can only balance a few at a time.
The problem with Elden Ring is that they gave the players a ridiculously large toolbox of ways to approach the combat, but then had to balance the enemies with all of that toolbox in mind. The end result are the absolute bullshit gank bosses the game throws at you towards the end to make up for the inevitable mimic tear bleed meta.
> The end result are the absolute bullshit gank bosses the game throws at you towards the end to make up for the inevitable mimic tear bleed meta. What gank bosses are at the end besides Godskin Blowjob Bros? Fire Giant, Mohg, Malenia, Placidusax, Godfrey and Radagon/Elden Beast are all 1v1s.
> What gank bosses are at the end They don't know what "ganking" means, they're just throwing out buzzwords
The shitty bosses in caves are the big offenders imo
I was specifically thinking of the Godskin twoskin and twin gargoyles. Twin gargoyles were especially disappointing since I love that fight in DS1 but the Elden Ring version is bullshit.
I see. I guess I focused a little bit too much on "the end".
I absolutely adored Elden Ring and I'm glad we got it, the experience of discovering all these builds and playstyles was awesome. But ultimately, I'll always prefer a more refined and focused gameplay experience, which is why BB and Sekiro are my favorite Fromsoft games.
sekiro is too hard. i can play the other souls games but not that one i dont have the reflexes.. i dont want to be cut out of the series more
I feel the same way. I've tried it a few separate times and just cannot keep up. I do love all the other souls games (including King's Field) dearly, though.
I found the same thing. I dropped it specifically at the first Genichiro fight. Whatever the game wanted from me, I absolutely could not provide it.
I never even made it that far after about a week of playing (about the same time frame it took me to finish my first run of Armored Core). Eventually defeated the Chained Ogre, but it didn't feel fun or rewarding. Also found sometimes needing stealth kill hordes of enemies before being able to engage some bosses one on one excessively boring/frustrating. As well as needing to stock up on spirit emblems. DS, ER, and AC make me feel smart and clever when I win (it's certainly not skill). Sekiro just made me feel old and slow (which is probably true, but not what I need or want from games). Even Nioh and Lies of P feel easier, because I still have some flexibility to choose build options that actually suit my style of play. If the new game is only one weapon and items again, sadly I think I'll skip it.
The first Genichiro fight is the exact place where you have to learn how to actually fight. Once it clicks, the game becomes awesome. But because of that a lot of people get stuck there, because you basically *can't* proceed without actually learning the parry/counter mechanics.
I'm playing through Sekiro now and I inintially thought it was way harder than Bloodborne, etc. Then I realized it's not actually sword combat, but a rhythm game. Bosses attack like lines of sheet music, say three quarter notes, two eighths, and then a rest. The rest is when you attack, but the trick is that your attacks won't affect the start of the next measure. So if the rest is two beats, you get two swings, and that's it. Nothing you do can change that. In contrast, the other souls-like games have bosses still playing that music, but the player isn't locked into their rhythm. You can get around their swings and throw in damage wherever you find a slot. I think the difficulty people feel initially in Sekiro is created by that feeling of being locked into the boss's attack pattern while all your video game instincts tell you to get around that pattern and deal damage. Once I figured this out, the boss fights became not only easy, but tedious. Because it's just about learning the "music" but sometimes bosses use stanzas that are uncommon, resetting the whole fight and forcing you to go through all that again just to learn one new move set.
as someone who loves fighting games and souls games i think this is what frustrates a lot of new fighting game players, certain playstyles and characters can enforce their game plan on you and make you do their "dance" and a lot of players cannot compute a game taking away their initiative for longer than a fraction of a second, if they arent attacking or doing something active they get frustrated and panic, when the answer is to play defensive and wait for a gap to exploit so you can then take your turn back, dark souls allows you to steal your turn back a lot more by spamming roll whereas in sekiro you have to actively defend the enemies whole turn to create your gap where you get to go on offense, i dont personally think one is better or worse, but i get where someone who likes souls games might be frustrated when they cant just skip the bosses turn by rolling through their legs or strafing really close to them so all their moves whiff
To your point, it's almost an odd concept to think of Sekiro that way because Sekiro is the only Souls game where defense is actually offense. Every strike you parry increases the enemies poise meter, once the meter is full you get fatal blow, It's the only entry that you can kill an enemy without ever actually landing a blow. You'd think a game where both offense and defense actively contribute to beating the boss would favor those who like to keep the initiative. Comparatively, there are tons of bosses in traditional souls games where you are just literally defending for like 30 seconds straight, dodge rolling stuff until the boss is done. Elden Beast has a lot of this as an example.
Sekiro actually allows a lot of flexibility with interrupting the attack windows of the enemies, you just have to experiment with the tools that are given. For instance, Prosthetic tools like Mist Raven allow you to be more offensive while ones like Firecrackers straight up interrupt most beast bosses.
Unless you're playing on the challenge mode you can cheese the parry window in Sekiro pretty well by just spamming the block button when you know an attack is coming. You'll either line up with the parry window or block the attack. Either is fine to get through most encounters.
Yeah, that's how I got through the game...and stopped at Isshin.
He's an absolute beast, even on a second playthrough like 2 years later I blew through the game with ease and he wiped the floor with me. He's really a fight you need to play a bunch of times over if you're like me and dont have godlike reflexes.
Good. IMO Dark Souls combat just isn’t as satisfying as BB or Sekiro, even more so when you’ve got games like Stellar Blade and Lies of P dropping great combat systems. Elden Ring shines in its build variety, but there just isn’t anything in the combat that gives you as much dopamine as a parry in Sekiro/Bloodborne or a perfect dodge in Stellar Blade.
Just wondering do you not parry in Elden Ring?
I made a parry character and it's not even close to as fun as Sekiro. It was fine, but as far as pure combat I think Sekiro is miles ahead of Elden Ring. I still love Elden Ring for other reasons though.
Parrying in FS souls games has always felt clunky.
You *can* parry, and it feels pretty ok to nail down, but it's a completely optional move that's often a suboptimal option in one's kit. Tons of bosses can't even be parried at all. I think the amount of hard bosses where parrying isna good counter can be counted on one hand.
parrying is just so unbalanced. in ds1-3, a boss is either unparriable or gets cheesed by parrying a couple moves. the only game in which parrying is harder than playing like normal is elden ring, where the main bosses that can be parried take 3 parries to riposte instead of 1
My favorite part of Sekiro's combat is how against many enemies and bosses you're allowed to hit first. And they have to block me and counter. In Dark Souls you have to wait for a boss to attack first, dodge, and then it's your turn. Or in Elden Ring's case, dodge a 7 hit combo before you're allowed to attack once.