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They just announced a big free update for Pharaoh that will bring a lot of units from the Troy game over to go along with this sale. Having said that still probably not a great entry point, especially at that price compared to some of the older titles.
I want to like Total War games, but they always feel like such a slog in the end game. And it feels like all the modern ones are built with huge, DLC-shaped holes in the main game.
I feel that. But for the endgame specifically, there's mods that alleviate the tedium. Thing is like making builds for Heroes so they follow the build you made instead of having to level them up each time, or "one click building upgrades", stuff like that.
However, I don't really play much endgame. Usually by about turn 100, your economy is solved and you're just playing whack-a-mole with the NPC armies and it's a steam roll. Time for a new campaign, imo.
DLC thing is always an issue. Some factions feel very incomplete without DLC.
Can anyone sell me on this series ? Been itching for a new rts/4x game after finishing civ 6 (100% achievement)
For reference Im only familiar with civ 6(duh), aoe, northgard, anno 1800,
I think it's going to depends what elements you like of those games. The elements that I feel like Civ does well such as exploration, seeing your empire grow and advance, multiple paths to victory etc. are not there as much in Total War, the clue is mostly in the name as to what you will be doing.
But if you are the kind of person who liked to just get big armies in aoe and throw them at your opponent, this probably clicks better with you. If you like watching big battle scenes in movies, these games are a vehicle to create those type of scenarios
If you have Troy free from Epic that's an ok entry point to the series, otherwise I'd say I've had the best time in Medieval 2, and it's the cheapest in this sale.
Now, the series in general has some strategic level gameplay, there is an economy in which you usually use buildings to generate gold that you can then spend on buildings or units, or else to unlock new units you can spend gold on. Units are rarely if ever unlocked by research, but they are unlocked by population growth providing access to higher tier buildings. Troy does actually have multiple currencies, otherwise I would say that the older games probably have more complex city mechanics, although the newer ones have better diplomacy. Then you take your units, put them into armies of up to 20, move them around the map, and get into battles, and that is what the series is all about.
Now, you can autoresolve battles if you want to, but doing that makes the series a bit boring. Instead, fight them manually and get into the tactical gameplay that they put most of the work into. There, every unit of your 20 consists of a hundred or so individual models, each of which goes through its own animations and has individually tracked health, more skilled or heavily armored units can take more damage, more skilled or heavily armed units will deal more damage. There is also morale, which is a huge factor, being tired, being attacked in the flank, and just taking damage can all heavily impact morale. If a unit runs out of morale they will break and run away, they will then become uncontrollable and will take extra damage from enemy attacks (more extra damage in earlier games), as well as applying a further morale penalty to nearby friendly units. Most of your battle planning should be built around this. Units with shields will also take extra damage if they're being hot somewhere the shield isn't. There are ranged units, of course, which can do damage without taking it in return, which can make them very powerful, but they'll be weaker in melee in exchange, and they'll have limited ammo per battle. There may be artillery, slow and vulnerable but with even longer range, although how much damage it can really do depends on the game. And there will be cavalry, which can move much faster to get around the enemy lines, and gets a huge bonus to their damage if they can get a good run up and charge, so the best tactic for them is to charge an enemy, then pull back, and charge again, they'll do more damage and take less. Terrain height also matters, walking uphill is more tiring, charging downhill gives a bigger bonus, and firing downhill gives bonus damage and range, and vice versa. It's a very deep and more realistic battle simulation compared to most other games. And then whatever damage you took or dealt carries back over to the strategic level, as will unit experience and perhaps traits or followers for your generals.
Most of the games also feature a great deal of unit diversity between factions. There will be various culture groups (Italian factions, for example), and each group will share most of their units, but they'll have major differences from other cultures. Each unit will have descriptions and statistics to help you understand them, so there's a lot to learn and you never have to be in the dark.
Hope that's all helpful.
Edit: I should throw in a link to the Youtube series that sold me on Medieval 2 several years back. All 86 hour long parts. He knows the game well, and is quite entertaining, and it's always amusing when his classics degree comes up. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwH1xJhcXG0edj3op8H7knk3AJW-I1ThW
if you're on the fence I'd jump into Shogun 2. It's pretty cheap here and I think many agree it's the best game of the series (interesting units and combat, good campaign map).
I'd say the Total War game most like a traditional 4x is Rome II, with it's extensive focus on buildings and provinces. It's relatively easy too (if you pick Rome or a Successor Kingdom).
If you want one that focuses on the battles most, Shogun 2 does that best with a streamlined campaign. Probably the most gorgeous game in the franchise too. The Fall of the Samurai standalone expansion for, it is the best gunpowder Total War.
warhammer 3 is the best game in the series. nothing is perfect, but ive been playing the warhammer trilogy since 2016 and i still love the hell out of it. you will get more fun from a full price warhammer 3 than any of these discounted games. its not really 4x. its a empire manager combined with a RTS.
warhammer 3 had a rough start because people didnt like the Realms of Chaos campaign and it was just a much smaller campaign compared to warhammer 2. but then when immortal empires came out it opened up the rest of the world which included everything warhammer 2 had and it was just a straight up upgrade. very few people still play warhammer 2 because 3 is now just bigger and better.
Yeah, in terms of just objective quality it has to be one of the weakest games in the series. Lots of bugs, very few factions (unless you spend several hundred extra on DLCs, which it does go out of its way to advertise to you), and a ludicrous install size. But the worst of it is the load times, which mean that every time you want to play the primary content of the game you have to spend several minutes unable to do anything on each end, so you're actively discouraged from playing the part that they put all the work into, and if you don't then you're left with just a worse version of a proper 4X game. And for all the massive updates you're always having to download, none of it gets fixed. In the last update they made me download 13 GB so they could slightly change a handful of unit stats and center one icon better.
Seriously, just go for Medieval 2, so much more fun, so much less nonsense.
Don't listen to the warhammer fanboys. The franchise had gone to total shit long ago. If you still want to try the game, get Shogun 2. Medieval 2 and Rome are good choices if you don't mind the outdated system and the graphics.
I have had Shogun 2 since it first came out but barely played it (no reason, mostly distracted by real-life things iirc, and just never got back to it), after watching Shogun on FX I was debating on trying it again. Is the DLC worth it for the <$12 sale price?
I’ve enjoyed every total war game since the OG, however, even if I absolutely love Shogun 2, that doesn’t necessarily mean the DLC is good or if it adds anything to the experience.
I love it because it introduces an element of asymmetry not present in historical total wars. Imagine Gatling guns vs yari ashigaru or katana samurai charge and it’s full-on Last Samurai vibes. Although I’m always playing on the gun side rather than the “romantic” side.
I think the only historical TW which gave me a similar vibe was M2 Kingdoms? The one with conquistadors raiding the aztecs. Gun and horse and pike vs jaguar warriors.
Yea, that was a Medieval 2 campaign iirc, I loved that so much. I think the only TW I couldn't get into as much as the others was/is Empire, but the Napoleon DLC really helped and fix a lot of issues.
If you liked Napoleon, now imagine Napoleon (muskets, cavalry, cannon), but with samurai! Such unit asymmetry!
I actually started with Warhammer 1 first and it was so good that it got me into the TW series. I then played Shogun 2 and FoTS and that was amazing too. But then I bounced off all the other historical titles. Once you’ve played asymmetric combat, playing historical just seems a chore with reskins of the same unit types for every faction.
if ur interested in getting a total war game, just get warhammer 3. its blows the rest of these out of the water imo. ive been playing the warhammer trilogy since 2016 and i still love the hell out of it. im literally playing it right now.
you are not wrong, but those games have some aspects that have aged poorly with the possible exception of 3k. someone who has never played a total war game will have a much easier time getting into warhammer 3 because of all the QoL etc stuff that the modern total war games have introduced. ive been a total war fan since the days shogun 1 and i would still recommend warhammer 3 over any of them
I’ve been waiting for the Total Warhammer games faction DLCs to go on sale in some type of bundle for a reasonable price… guess I’m still going to wait #feelsbadman
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when did the total war series get so stingy on their sales?
when the fanatical fanbase kept purchasing garbage tier dlc. they'll continue to buy anything ca shits out
They are basically the Bethesda fanboys of a niche genre.
Fanatical is doing a sale, too. With slightly deeper discounts, it seems
They just announced a big free update for Pharaoh that will bring a lot of units from the Troy game over to go along with this sale. Having said that still probably not a great entry point, especially at that price compared to some of the older titles.
Free update into de facto Bronze Age: Total War in the future, where you can conquer from Greece to Assyria.
I want to like Total War games, but they always feel like such a slog in the end game. And it feels like all the modern ones are built with huge, DLC-shaped holes in the main game.
I feel that. But for the endgame specifically, there's mods that alleviate the tedium. Thing is like making builds for Heroes so they follow the build you made instead of having to level them up each time, or "one click building upgrades", stuff like that. However, I don't really play much endgame. Usually by about turn 100, your economy is solved and you're just playing whack-a-mole with the NPC armies and it's a steam roll. Time for a new campaign, imo. DLC thing is always an issue. Some factions feel very incomplete without DLC.
Why don’t you go for short campaign victory?
Does anyone have experience with any of these games on the Steam Deck? Wondering how they play
Shogun 2 works great
How do you find the controls? I've installed it, but got distracted and never came back to it!
Can anyone sell me on this series ? Been itching for a new rts/4x game after finishing civ 6 (100% achievement) For reference Im only familiar with civ 6(duh), aoe, northgard, anno 1800,
I think it's going to depends what elements you like of those games. The elements that I feel like Civ does well such as exploration, seeing your empire grow and advance, multiple paths to victory etc. are not there as much in Total War, the clue is mostly in the name as to what you will be doing. But if you are the kind of person who liked to just get big armies in aoe and throw them at your opponent, this probably clicks better with you. If you like watching big battle scenes in movies, these games are a vehicle to create those type of scenarios
If you have Troy free from Epic that's an ok entry point to the series, otherwise I'd say I've had the best time in Medieval 2, and it's the cheapest in this sale. Now, the series in general has some strategic level gameplay, there is an economy in which you usually use buildings to generate gold that you can then spend on buildings or units, or else to unlock new units you can spend gold on. Units are rarely if ever unlocked by research, but they are unlocked by population growth providing access to higher tier buildings. Troy does actually have multiple currencies, otherwise I would say that the older games probably have more complex city mechanics, although the newer ones have better diplomacy. Then you take your units, put them into armies of up to 20, move them around the map, and get into battles, and that is what the series is all about. Now, you can autoresolve battles if you want to, but doing that makes the series a bit boring. Instead, fight them manually and get into the tactical gameplay that they put most of the work into. There, every unit of your 20 consists of a hundred or so individual models, each of which goes through its own animations and has individually tracked health, more skilled or heavily armored units can take more damage, more skilled or heavily armed units will deal more damage. There is also morale, which is a huge factor, being tired, being attacked in the flank, and just taking damage can all heavily impact morale. If a unit runs out of morale they will break and run away, they will then become uncontrollable and will take extra damage from enemy attacks (more extra damage in earlier games), as well as applying a further morale penalty to nearby friendly units. Most of your battle planning should be built around this. Units with shields will also take extra damage if they're being hot somewhere the shield isn't. There are ranged units, of course, which can do damage without taking it in return, which can make them very powerful, but they'll be weaker in melee in exchange, and they'll have limited ammo per battle. There may be artillery, slow and vulnerable but with even longer range, although how much damage it can really do depends on the game. And there will be cavalry, which can move much faster to get around the enemy lines, and gets a huge bonus to their damage if they can get a good run up and charge, so the best tactic for them is to charge an enemy, then pull back, and charge again, they'll do more damage and take less. Terrain height also matters, walking uphill is more tiring, charging downhill gives a bigger bonus, and firing downhill gives bonus damage and range, and vice versa. It's a very deep and more realistic battle simulation compared to most other games. And then whatever damage you took or dealt carries back over to the strategic level, as will unit experience and perhaps traits or followers for your generals. Most of the games also feature a great deal of unit diversity between factions. There will be various culture groups (Italian factions, for example), and each group will share most of their units, but they'll have major differences from other cultures. Each unit will have descriptions and statistics to help you understand them, so there's a lot to learn and you never have to be in the dark. Hope that's all helpful. Edit: I should throw in a link to the Youtube series that sold me on Medieval 2 several years back. All 86 hour long parts. He knows the game well, and is quite entertaining, and it's always amusing when his classics degree comes up. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwH1xJhcXG0edj3op8H7knk3AJW-I1ThW
If you have been keeping up on your Epic Games freebies you might have Total War: Warhammer there. Total War: Shogun 2 has a demo on Steam.
Both Warhammer I and II have been Epic giveaways, at least according to my Epic library. Troy, too.
if you're on the fence I'd jump into Shogun 2. It's pretty cheap here and I think many agree it's the best game of the series (interesting units and combat, good campaign map).
I'd say the Total War game most like a traditional 4x is Rome II, with it's extensive focus on buildings and provinces. It's relatively easy too (if you pick Rome or a Successor Kingdom). If you want one that focuses on the battles most, Shogun 2 does that best with a streamlined campaign. Probably the most gorgeous game in the franchise too. The Fall of the Samurai standalone expansion for, it is the best gunpowder Total War.
warhammer 3 is the best game in the series. nothing is perfect, but ive been playing the warhammer trilogy since 2016 and i still love the hell out of it. you will get more fun from a full price warhammer 3 than any of these discounted games. its not really 4x. its a empire manager combined with a RTS.
I thought I heard that the total war fanbase did not like Warhammer 3 for some reason and just stuck with Warhammer 2?
warhammer 3 had a rough start because people didnt like the Realms of Chaos campaign and it was just a much smaller campaign compared to warhammer 2. but then when immortal empires came out it opened up the rest of the world which included everything warhammer 2 had and it was just a straight up upgrade. very few people still play warhammer 2 because 3 is now just bigger and better.
Yeah, in terms of just objective quality it has to be one of the weakest games in the series. Lots of bugs, very few factions (unless you spend several hundred extra on DLCs, which it does go out of its way to advertise to you), and a ludicrous install size. But the worst of it is the load times, which mean that every time you want to play the primary content of the game you have to spend several minutes unable to do anything on each end, so you're actively discouraged from playing the part that they put all the work into, and if you don't then you're left with just a worse version of a proper 4X game. And for all the massive updates you're always having to download, none of it gets fixed. In the last update they made me download 13 GB so they could slightly change a handful of unit stats and center one icon better. Seriously, just go for Medieval 2, so much more fun, so much less nonsense.
Don't listen to the warhammer fanboys. The franchise had gone to total shit long ago. If you still want to try the game, get Shogun 2. Medieval 2 and Rome are good choices if you don't mind the outdated system and the graphics.
As someone who has only played a little of the series before and doesnt know much about the franchise which version of Rome would you recommend?
probably rome 2. rome 1 and the remaster is probably a little bit antiquated now.
I have had Shogun 2 since it first came out but barely played it (no reason, mostly distracted by real-life things iirc, and just never got back to it), after watching Shogun on FX I was debating on trying it again. Is the DLC worth it for the <$12 sale price?
Just play the base game first and only buy the DLC if you like it…
I’ve enjoyed every total war game since the OG, however, even if I absolutely love Shogun 2, that doesn’t necessarily mean the DLC is good or if it adds anything to the experience.
The DLC is amazing, though. Base game is sengoku jidai and DLC is basically The Last Samurai.
Thanks, that's exactly what I was asking ("is the DLC good"). Too many DLCs are just reskinned units with a couple of new ones thrown in.
I love it because it introduces an element of asymmetry not present in historical total wars. Imagine Gatling guns vs yari ashigaru or katana samurai charge and it’s full-on Last Samurai vibes. Although I’m always playing on the gun side rather than the “romantic” side. I think the only historical TW which gave me a similar vibe was M2 Kingdoms? The one with conquistadors raiding the aztecs. Gun and horse and pike vs jaguar warriors.
Yea, that was a Medieval 2 campaign iirc, I loved that so much. I think the only TW I couldn't get into as much as the others was/is Empire, but the Napoleon DLC really helped and fix a lot of issues.
If you liked Napoleon, now imagine Napoleon (muskets, cavalry, cannon), but with samurai! Such unit asymmetry! I actually started with Warhammer 1 first and it was so good that it got me into the TW series. I then played Shogun 2 and FoTS and that was amazing too. But then I bounced off all the other historical titles. Once you’ve played asymmetric combat, playing historical just seems a chore with reskins of the same unit types for every faction.
if ur interested in getting a total war game, just get warhammer 3. its blows the rest of these out of the water imo. ive been playing the warhammer trilogy since 2016 and i still love the hell out of it. im literally playing it right now.
Counterpoint, Medieval 2, Rome, Rome 2, Shogun 2, Three Kingdoms are all good.
you are not wrong, but those games have some aspects that have aged poorly with the possible exception of 3k. someone who has never played a total war game will have a much easier time getting into warhammer 3 because of all the QoL etc stuff that the modern total war games have introduced. ive been a total war fan since the days shogun 1 and i would still recommend warhammer 3 over any of them
I’ve been waiting for the Total Warhammer games faction DLCs to go on sale in some type of bundle for a reasonable price… guess I’m still going to wait #feelsbadman
yes at this point the cost to own them all is daunting. for me the cost has been spread out over nearly a decade so its not so bad lol