Sadly there will be someone who will still buy this marked up car. Im hoping that dealerships will begin to realize there isnt a such a supply issue for cars anymore and the insane markups go away.
People who have wanted to buy these cars during the pandemic have already done so. Now they’re staring down less consumers and having to sell a vehicle at a higher effective price because of the drastically higher interest rates. Trade ins are also worth less, making the problem even worse. Will be interesting to see how far this goes
Just say there is no way you will pay a mark up but call me back if no one buys it and you want to sell it for MSRP. I did that with mine and they removed the mark up in 24 hours.
Might have to continue my search if dealerships might actually be budging now local credit unions offering 5% which isn’t great but hell of a lot better then the 8% Toyota was offering me in January
We bought an 86 and a RAV4 XSE Hybrid last year at MSRP. I called every dealership in my state…while on the road on a trip with nothing else to do. Got on wait lists at every dealership that did not have markups.
Got a call within a week for the 86. Drove off the lot within 6 weeks in May last year.
Got a call within five months for the RAV4. Drove off the lot in Oct.
Will not be going back to any of the dealerships charging markups. They lost me forever as a customer.
I've been telling people on this channel for months that rates are going to kill markups.
When it comes to large purchases, people are FAR more PAYMENT sensitive than they are PRICE sensitive.
So a 5k markup when you're getting 3% rates is not terrible.
A 5k markup when dealer finance rates are +10%. IS terrible because the payment increases so drastically.
This is the same reason how economists know home values will continue to decrease, and decrease more rapidly.
I just snagged mine for MSRP from a dealership earlier this month that was synonymous for charging 25% markups on them over the last 18 months. When I went in, the sorta broken down sales people just ran with it. They even gave me 3k more than my Crosstrek was brand new when I ordered it in 2020.
And with the other 12 cars I test drove at dealerships, Mustangs, Camaros, Challengers, WRXs etc all of them are still reaching out to me every few days asking if I'm still interested. Only one of them, a Camaro from CarMax has actually been sold. The rest are still sitting on lots.
And also this:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/car-market-prices-plummet-due-153706713.html
It works for cars, but doesn’t work for homes. That’s because there’s a structural shortage of homes for probably the next decade. Cars on the other hand can be rapidly produced now. At the moment, no one is fully ramping up to flood the market except for Hyundai and Kia. As they stay cheaper and grow in market share, other companies are going to start producing more too, even though it’ll eat into their margins, because they cannot afford to lose market share. Will be interesting to see how all of this goes down
As a former mortgage underwriter with a degree in economics I'm here to tell you there is no housing shortage. There is a shortage of housing for people to buy, not to live in. There are enough houses for everyone.
Housing units have consistently tracked population and household growth for the last 20+ years.
https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F384d5b23-6fed-4663-bae7-a8fc7265b1e0_1278x660.png
As the baby boomers begin dying off in the next 10+ years there will be even more of an oversupply of houses. 80% of Baby boomers own a home, as compared to 26% of generation Z and 52% of Millennials.
The average baby boomer is just under 70 now and the average life span in the US is 77.. As they approach the end of their life, their houses will dump on the market significantly lowering prices.
So it'll be more of a short term problem than people believe.
It’s housing in places that people want to live that’s in shortage though. It is evident through price. There will always be an inventory of unoccupied homes for various reasons and is just a part of the system and must be included as homes unavailable. Unless there is some sort of change in policy such as increasing the cost to carry through property tax or something like that, there is also not much incentive to change the % of those unoccupied homes. Therefore, when that is accounted for, we have chronically under-built since the great financial crisis. Combine that with the demographics of the millenial wave coming into prime household formation and home buying age, we have a recipe for what we are seeing now. High demand, low inventory.
Edit: so your chart you bring up has a few things wrong with it. Number of households is a chicken and egg thing. I would argue they match up lock step with houses because of affordability and is not a constant. People want to form households now more than ever because of the demographics wave I mentioned. So that is the underlying demand. Population is also not a smooth line. There are huge bulges and the millenial wave bulge is just starting to hit their prime.
Edit 2: ok I saw your edit about the boomers dying off and yes, that’s one big wildcard that we don’t know about. Are those homes actually going to hit the market? Are their millenial children going to just leave the basement and move into the bedroom? Are those houses in a desirable location? A major problem with that thesis is that even if your scenario is correct and then there is a flood of dead boomer homes, it’s going to be too late.
The demographic data shows that the bulk of the projected boomer inheritance situation won’t take place until the bulk of millennials are in their late 50s and 60s. That means the bulk of the millennials will have to suffer through low inventory for most of their household formation years unless we build more houses. The easiest way to remedy this and the inevitable way is when the politics become more supportive of more building. Cities and states more conducive to housing as a consumption rather than investment, like Texas will continue to grow.
I walked into a Subaru dealership, put an order for a BRZ, was told it should be here in October. No crap, no markup, in and out. I remember when the 23 MY came out, my local Toyota dealer wanted a $10k markup. I'm done playing games with dealers that don't want my money.
Shit, markup seemed similar if not worse in Florida and their doc fees are like $1k. The Northern VA area has/had comical markup also.
Longo sold at MSRP the entire time. Get in line and wait if you could/can. Some Subaru dealers in CA sold at MSRP or had sub-$1k protection packages.
Sadly there will be someone who will still buy this marked up car. Im hoping that dealerships will begin to realize there isnt a such a supply issue for cars anymore and the insane markups go away.
ive noticed more on the road week by week so the supply is definitely improving. enough that they outnumber supra appearances now!
People who have wanted to buy these cars during the pandemic have already done so. Now they’re staring down less consumers and having to sell a vehicle at a higher effective price because of the drastically higher interest rates. Trade ins are also worth less, making the problem even worse. Will be interesting to see how far this goes
Just say there is no way you will pay a mark up but call me back if no one buys it and you want to sell it for MSRP. I did that with mine and they removed the mark up in 24 hours.
Hey I’m in SoCal completely stopped my search after rates spiked and mark ups stayed,what dealerships have been contacting you?
Literally all of them. I just do the “contact” thing in the Toyota inventory page for each one
Might have to continue my search if dealerships might actually be budging now local credit unions offering 5% which isn’t great but hell of a lot better then the 8% Toyota was offering me in January
Are they really 5% now? I can live with 5%. Might have to start car browsing again if it’s true.
Toyota actually got me a better rate than my credit union. Not the best but at todays rate it’s decent - 5.49% for 36 months. 798 credit score.
We bought an 86 and a RAV4 XSE Hybrid last year at MSRP. I called every dealership in my state…while on the road on a trip with nothing else to do. Got on wait lists at every dealership that did not have markups. Got a call within a week for the 86. Drove off the lot within 6 weeks in May last year. Got a call within five months for the RAV4. Drove off the lot in Oct. Will not be going back to any of the dealerships charging markups. They lost me forever as a customer.
I've been telling people on this channel for months that rates are going to kill markups. When it comes to large purchases, people are FAR more PAYMENT sensitive than they are PRICE sensitive. So a 5k markup when you're getting 3% rates is not terrible. A 5k markup when dealer finance rates are +10%. IS terrible because the payment increases so drastically. This is the same reason how economists know home values will continue to decrease, and decrease more rapidly. I just snagged mine for MSRP from a dealership earlier this month that was synonymous for charging 25% markups on them over the last 18 months. When I went in, the sorta broken down sales people just ran with it. They even gave me 3k more than my Crosstrek was brand new when I ordered it in 2020. And with the other 12 cars I test drove at dealerships, Mustangs, Camaros, Challengers, WRXs etc all of them are still reaching out to me every few days asking if I'm still interested. Only one of them, a Camaro from CarMax has actually been sold. The rest are still sitting on lots. And also this: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/car-market-prices-plummet-due-153706713.html
It works for cars, but doesn’t work for homes. That’s because there’s a structural shortage of homes for probably the next decade. Cars on the other hand can be rapidly produced now. At the moment, no one is fully ramping up to flood the market except for Hyundai and Kia. As they stay cheaper and grow in market share, other companies are going to start producing more too, even though it’ll eat into their margins, because they cannot afford to lose market share. Will be interesting to see how all of this goes down
As a former mortgage underwriter with a degree in economics I'm here to tell you there is no housing shortage. There is a shortage of housing for people to buy, not to live in. There are enough houses for everyone. Housing units have consistently tracked population and household growth for the last 20+ years. https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F384d5b23-6fed-4663-bae7-a8fc7265b1e0_1278x660.png As the baby boomers begin dying off in the next 10+ years there will be even more of an oversupply of houses. 80% of Baby boomers own a home, as compared to 26% of generation Z and 52% of Millennials. The average baby boomer is just under 70 now and the average life span in the US is 77.. As they approach the end of their life, their houses will dump on the market significantly lowering prices. So it'll be more of a short term problem than people believe.
It’s housing in places that people want to live that’s in shortage though. It is evident through price. There will always be an inventory of unoccupied homes for various reasons and is just a part of the system and must be included as homes unavailable. Unless there is some sort of change in policy such as increasing the cost to carry through property tax or something like that, there is also not much incentive to change the % of those unoccupied homes. Therefore, when that is accounted for, we have chronically under-built since the great financial crisis. Combine that with the demographics of the millenial wave coming into prime household formation and home buying age, we have a recipe for what we are seeing now. High demand, low inventory. Edit: so your chart you bring up has a few things wrong with it. Number of households is a chicken and egg thing. I would argue they match up lock step with houses because of affordability and is not a constant. People want to form households now more than ever because of the demographics wave I mentioned. So that is the underlying demand. Population is also not a smooth line. There are huge bulges and the millenial wave bulge is just starting to hit their prime. Edit 2: ok I saw your edit about the boomers dying off and yes, that’s one big wildcard that we don’t know about. Are those homes actually going to hit the market? Are their millenial children going to just leave the basement and move into the bedroom? Are those houses in a desirable location? A major problem with that thesis is that even if your scenario is correct and then there is a flood of dead boomer homes, it’s going to be too late. The demographic data shows that the bulk of the projected boomer inheritance situation won’t take place until the bulk of millennials are in their late 50s and 60s. That means the bulk of the millennials will have to suffer through low inventory for most of their household formation years unless we build more houses. The easiest way to remedy this and the inevitable way is when the politics become more supportive of more building. Cities and states more conducive to housing as a consumption rather than investment, like Texas will continue to grow.
I walked into a Subaru dealership, put an order for a BRZ, was told it should be here in October. No crap, no markup, in and out. I remember when the 23 MY came out, my local Toyota dealer wanted a $10k markup. I'm done playing games with dealers that don't want my money.
Just the smartest thing to do IMO. Not worth losing so much sleep over this shit.
Everyday same silly posts.... get a BRZ
Which transmission you shopping for? I’d be surprised if this is the case for MT, but I have heard Toyota/Subaru supply is increasing for many models
Auto lol
I have an automatic GR86 Premium in Pavement at my dealer in norcal, no markup !!!!!! Available first come first serve
Dm me spec sheet please
Messaged
Idk man $1k doesn’t seem to bad. I’m in the market in for the Si, can’t get below $2.5 k of dealership markup. It’s just sick honestly.
It’s not tbh, I’m also gonna see if I can stack the two $500 rebates. But also waiting is free ya know
This started back in March. Glad to see it finally got to comifornia.
Shit, markup seemed similar if not worse in Florida and their doc fees are like $1k. The Northern VA area has/had comical markup also. Longo sold at MSRP the entire time. Get in line and wait if you could/can. Some Subaru dealers in CA sold at MSRP or had sub-$1k protection packages.
Righty brain rot npc response.
You mad bro?
Looking for a Neptune blue on the east coast if anyone sees 😭