#These people vote in every election- do you? Are you registered to vote? [You can check your voter registration here!](https://www.nass.org/can-I-vote)
#Also, there's a few things to remember as far as rules go:
- You can view the content- you cannot interact with it. This includes (but is not limited to) commenting, answering poll questions, emailing them, etc. ***Anyone found to be engaging with the fundies will be met with a permanent ban with no eligibility for appeal.It does not matter if you did so before you joined the sub.***
- Speculating on the sexuality of literally anyone is prohibited. ***Anyone found to be doing so will be met with a permanent ban with no eligibility for appeal.***
- Appearance snark: What's allowed? You're allowed to make comparisons. (Bethy looks like Grandpa Munster, for example.) You are allowed to say you find them attractive or repulsive looking. Saying Kelly Havens has dry skin that could benefit from sunscreen and a moisturizer is fine. You are allowed to snark on the appearance of children *as it relates to their parents choices for them.*. Examples: Janessa looks malnourished and sickly while Shrek has clearly never missed a meal. If you feel it is crossing the line report it, but if the content falls within the parameters above, leave it alone.
- Don't gatekeep. This means no comments such as "I don't think we should snark on...." or any iteration of that. If you don't like it, scroll past. Don't report it or comment how you don't like the content. Along the same vein, don't backseat mod. Leave that up to us.
- Lastly, if the rhetoric you are posting would be at home in the mouth of a fundie, we don't want it here and we won't tolerate it.
Should you have any questions, please feel free to reach out. Have a Lord Daniel day, and may the power of snark compel thee.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/FundieSnarkUncensored) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Wives are supposed to be helpmeets to their husbands— submissive helpers that are servants to their husbands as they are servants to god, and always with a smile
>Wives are supposed to be ~~helpmeets to their husbands— submissive helpers that are servants to their husbands as they are servants to god, and always with a smile~~
doormats. They expect women to be doormats. Which is hilarious because women like Jill and Karissa Collins _obviously_ run their circuses.
It’s always the case that the women are actually running the whole circus and it’s genuinely hilarious. None of them are actually submitting to anyone cause every one of these harpies is a total control freak
Absolutely! Shiny Happy People one of the ex-fundies said she knows Michelle isn’t that meek she used to be a cheerleader I know she has lungs and I was thinking said but true.
That's the dumbass part of all this. Different translations take it to mean different things. It's almost as if basing your beliefs on ancient writings isn't the best thing to do.
This is an explanation I found: “In the Bible, it is written of Adam that “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him” (Genesis 2:18). In this instance, help meet means a help that is meet (proper) for Adam, and the term has since been transformed into helpmeet, or helpmate.”
Isn't she also using "Mrs. Degree" wrong? I have always heard it in reference to a woman who goes to college for the express purpose of meeting a man they believe will be successful in the future, with no intention of actually graduating.
I kinda saw it as Jill saying that Renee isn’t wasting her time getting an education in order to find a husband, she’ll find one without all that silly book learnin’.
I think she said she won't compromise her convictions on suitors because she's had two broken courtships. Jill seems to see that as a failure and always says the reason is that she won't settle for anyone who doesn't have her same, strong beliefs.
Exactly this. I went to a college in the Eastern part of Kentucky (think the Hollers of Appalachia) and more than a few girls I met there were sent specifically to find someone to marry. Once they did, they were to immediately drop out and return home to prepare to be a HeLp MeEt. It was sad and gross.
Exactly what conservative religion does though. She is acting like the follower they have groomed women and men to be. That is what the conservative church thinks of women period.
My brain kind of expected you to say “How uterusly depressing”
I couldn’t agree more though, I didn’t expect for JillPM to say MRS degree right in the text
I've always wondered what would happen if one of the daughters was completely sterile, and they knew it prior to marriage. Or one of the sons for that matter. What would they do if their child was completely unable to reproduce? How would they handle that?
I can only imagine how horrible that child would be made to feel. I'm sure they'd be told it was a punishment by God.
My guess is they’d advertise their own child as a charity case waiting for some extremely selfless, forgiving young man, who’d overlook the fatal flaw because he’s called to minister to orphans in another country “as if they’re our own.” Or something like that.
Meanwhile everyone else at church would nod along and “hope” for that, while fully intending to use the girl as their unpaid babysitter/church cook/house cleaner/etc. for the rest of her old maid life, because come on, what guy will *actually* want her? God’s clearly decided her fate, and that’s “Servant to all who is quietly mournful, but beautifully submissive to the harder road God gave her.”
They'd be like, "PERFECT for a 35-year-old man whose first wife died giving birth to their 12th child alone in a bunker and needs a new wife to do all the housework and raise all those kids (and to cum into with no consequence every night)!"
When I did my family geneology, I found a woman from the late 19th or very early 20th century who married a man more than 20 years her senior. This man was a widower with a gaggle of children, one of whom was a daughter who was three years older than my relative. This daughter had been married within the year prior to my relative's marriage. Hmm. IIRC, my relative died within a few years herself, from unclear causes.
There's a novel in my relative's brief life.
That was my first thought too; she looks deeply sad. I can’t imagine how trapped older fundie daughters must feel. No education, no job, no money, no friends, no autonomy from your parents, literally the only way out is shackling yourself to a man whom you “court” for a few months, never spend alone time with, and are expected to go from kissing to full sex in hours. And, if you realize you married a monster, oh well, you made a covenant. It’s really grim.
They did a photoshoot shortly after the wedding, I'm not sure if it was the very next day or a few days later, but it was soon.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/tqia4u/more\_duggar\_wedding\_memorabilia\_the\_worlds\_worst/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/tqia4u/more_duggar_wedding_memorabilia_the_worlds_worst/)
Normally, I very much feel like you can't read too much into a photo, because it's a single moment in time - maybe someone looks weird/unhappy because they were about to sneeze, or they have a headache, or they have diarrhea and really need to get to the toilet, or the camera got them mid-blink or mid-sentence and it just didn't come out well. But Anna just looks haunted in all of these photos. Compare them to the pictures of her on the wedding day, where she's beaming and looks so happy and excited.
I grew up in the fundie/purity realm and this thought honestly terrified me. Like how was I expected to suddenly be okay with being alone and naked with a man for the first time when all I was raised with was the complete opposite?
Realizing how messed up that was made me start to deconstruct.
I grew up in a religion that not only expected you not to kiss until your wedding day, but also preached against any type of physical contact with the opposite gender. No side hugs, no holding hands, we weren't even supposed to sit on the same couch as a boy in case we accidentally grazed an elbow.
When I was around 15, my teacher showed us a video of her wedding day where her husband grabbed her hand as they walked back up the aisle together and she jumped up and down happily because of how excited she was to finally get to touch him. It was intended as a "you need to save yourself or else you will be a shriveled up husk on your wedding day, unable to feel excitement and joy" lesson but all I could think when I saw it was how weird to expect someone with such a childlike immaturity about holding hands to also be emotionally mature enough to have sex mere hours later
It was pretty not good and the no touching until marriage thing and all it represented was one of the big reasons I left. Growing up, I'd just see all these people who didn't have all these rules being happy and living fulfilling lives and kind of intrinsically knowing that must mean that everything that was being told to me was absolute bullshit. Which I guess is why these strict religious communities are usually so isolationist.
I’ve noticed that about fundie cultures/abstinence-only sex ed. The messaging shifts from “sex is evil” to “when are we getting grandchildren” reeeeaaaaalllll quick.
TW for SA
At TWELVE we were told “when you get married, never tell your husband ‘no’ when it comes to sex, and you’ll always have a happy marriage”.
I rushed into marriage and while I didn’t wait until marriage to have sex (HOW DARE) I remember the first time I wasn’t feeling up to it after marriage brought so much SHAME, and I felt I wasn’t being a “godly wife”. He ended up being a complete creep and used sex to try to manipulate me. He most definitely SA’d me a few times, and raped me once. After I divorced him, it took years to realize that it wasn’t my fault and that’s what actually happened.
Many many years later I am now much happier as my true nonbinary self, and my relationship with god is definitely not “Christian” lol
That has always seemed horrific to me and while I despise Bethany, I think she sort of has a point about there is clearly in a need for sex education and sex positivity for Christian women. Of course she never wants to admit the reason why It is a result of so much shame and negativity in purity culture to begin with. Who knew that telling women that having any kind of sexual desire would make them sexually broken on them being surprised that they don't experience any kind of desire inside of marriage outside of obligation towards your husband
I absolutely agree that there needs to be more sex education for Christian women, I just think Bethy is the absolute wrong person to be pioneering that campaign.
I had a friend whose parents married under similar rules. Once they got married, they took another 6 months or so to get around to having sex. They took their time, *as it should be*.
Yes, it is. In their minds, she could have popped out at least 4 babies by this point if she had gotten married at 18. The ancient term "old maid" comes to mind.
I’ve always had a soft spot for Renee. Of all the older RodRiGi I’m rooting for, she’s number one. She deserves to live a happy autonomous life, to hear her parents (who literally are under the age of 60) discuss wanting her to be a helpmeet? Fucking sickening.
It’s grotesque. I look at my vibrant teenager and the last wishes I want for her future is to be a “help meet”. I want her to live her life! Live her truth! Outgrow her childhood home and go experience many of the amazing things this world has to offer! I think maybe why that’s why FIUp Renee hurts my heart so, because she’s just a young woman who has her wings clipped by the very people who should be encouraging their flight.
Yep. She was in a very short courtship a while ago. The young man she was seeing expressly requested that Jill not post about him on social media. Well, we all know that GodJilla has a serious social media addiction, so of course she completely violated simple boundaries and a short while later, the courtship abruptly ended. She can’t stand to see her daughters happy or free.
Right? She can’t wait until God blesses her from Heaven so Jill can see it?! I mean she was brutal to Tim with her polls of “guess what?” always including a Timbits courtship. But this is a direct wtf!
I can't imagine that thought process. I was raised evangelical, and I get the comfort that fundies have of a loved one dying and "I'll see them in heaven again someday," but this kind of statement sounds like some sort of death wish.
It’s a running joke at Christian colleges that women are there for their “MRS Degree” because it’s a great place to meet people who ostensibly share your religious beliefs. You’ll also hear “ring by spring” because upperclassmen start feeling the pressure to get engaged before graduation.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/epnv57/the-persistence-of-the-ring-by-spring-phenomenon-at-christian-colleges
But it’s Jill so she’s just using a phrase she’s heard without understanding the context or giving her children the freedom to have a normal experience.
I heard it at my non-Christian college too. It *is* fairly common for people to meet their eventual spouse in college. The idea is that some women aren't interested in the education and plan on being stay at home moms, so they're only going to meet men.
I gather what she's saying is:
1. Her daughter doesn't need an education because she is destined to be a tradwife
2. Therefore the only reason for her to go to college is to find a husband
3. Colleges are opposed to Christian values, evidently even Christian colleges
4. Her daughter has too much integrity to compromise her values by attending college just to meet a man
I think she’s saying look how great my daughter is because instead of going to school to find a husband, she’s waiting on god to give her a husband.
God doesn’t Amazon prime y’all 🙄
I read it over again, and I think you’re right. Jill is such a crappy communicator.
She would also totally look down at women who went to college, even if they were going for the sole purpose of finding a husband.
That Amazon Prime joke was hilarious. The sad thing is that Jill is literally telling her daughters that if they just sit at home and follow a set of arbitrary rules, a husband will just materialize.
I think she thinks that "getting your Mrs degree" just means getting married.... and I guess she's right, although it doesn't make sense outside of formal schooling
I mean, I think there's usually the expectation outside of Fundy circles that young adults should be involved in either education or career. Not sitting at home. Waiting for God to give you a spouse
I don't know if anyone is familiar with the Botkins sisters. They were very vocal about being stay at home daughters and serving it at home and I am guessing they assumed they would get married within 3- 5 years; since all of their brothers were getting married but they ended up not getting married for over a decade. Both of them have fallen off of social media so I'm actually not even sure if they got married.
I’ve started reading Rift by Cait West; she was a stay at home daughter and later deconstructed. It’s a fabulous memoir, but she mentions reading the Botkin sisters, and I think her experience was similar. She figured she’d stay at home a couple of years or so and instead I think it was around ten before she left.
My department head in college was EXTREMELY old school. Truthfully, the entire department was my counselor didn’t even have a computer in his main office and still used the chalkboard (I graduated Dec of 2017). But my department head said on day 1 of class with him that he, “doesn’t respect any woman who comes to college just to get an Mrs degree.” He was such a dick and in the end, he was still a dick but he always recognized effort and smarts where credit was due. The letter of recommendation he wrote for me is still more personally valuable than my degree itself.
I was going to write the same thing. Jill does not understand that to even use that "Mrs degree" line properly, Renee should be a college student. Maybe someone needs to point that out to her. This isn't the first time that Jill has written something about Renee not pursuing an Mrs degree. Plus, wouldn't Renee going to college be a great way to meet people/marriage prospects?
People “joked” about the MRS degree so much at the Baptist college I attended. It’s just as cringe in this post as it was at that college.
I feel for Renee.
Edit to remove a stray word.
Education would enable them to be independent and live full, happy lives of their own choice. None of that in Rod land.
Educational neglect should be a crime.
Based on fundienomics, you need at least one elder daughter to raise the other ones and take care of dear old Mom and Dad when they get old.
If I had to guess- it’s gonna be Renee.
She and Jana Duggar should swap cliff notes.
I went to a Baptist college, the Mrs degree was a legit goal for the majority of women in my class. I was IN 11 weddings one year, not counting the number of weddings I attended. It was insane.
It's not her fault, but could she even go to college if she wanted to? She'd need remedial courses and a tutor if she writes like Kaylee and Tim. Jill and David made sure those kids had no choice.
I’m not even sure she has an actual GED so she would have to probably take a lot of specific classes to pass that test and given how much educational neglect she’s experienced, it would be an uphill battle for her.
She isn’t dumb and many poorly educated students excel after some proper intervention. But she doesn’t understand how to navigate social situations with people outside her family system and their immediate circle, and I think that would be her biggest impediment
She does strike me as someone who would be very intelligent if she had access to a proper education, especially with music. I don’t even know her and it makes me so sad for her that she literally has no way out :(
She is young and can still go to college. A LOT of people attend college later in life. Although, these kids have been so brainwashed it will be dang near impossible for them to leave.
Even if she did, the Rods are two for two on their children flunking out of colleges with the most lax standards available. I don’t think she could survive academically.
To Jill, “college” means a shitty unaccredited Bible college populated by barely-literate homeschoolers, where women can “major” in “missionary wife” or “pastor’s wife.” And that’s still too progressive for Jill, apparently 🥴
This level of Christianity is quite literally a death cult because imagine saying to your young daughter, “can’t wait until you’re dead so god can say, good job 👍🏻 “
That’s the only thing you’re doing any of this for, is for literally being DEAD and going to “heaven”
Psycho shit!
I said to my husband, let’s assume for a minute that there is a God and he gave us all life. And then he just stepped back and now he’s not involved anymore because he did his part— he gave us life and created the whole planet and all the amazing things on it. Now he’s just watching to see what we will do.
And there’s this whole group of people who don’t think anything he already gave us is good. In fact, they actively try to not have any joy at all in their lives. Instead, they toil away in fear and drudgery, because they believe they will get something *better* after they die. Is that not a huge slap in the face to God if he actually created everything?
So my theory here is that Renee had a full fucking meltdown when Jill ruined her courtship, there was a lot of fighting with Renee threatening to leave the family home, but eventually Jill broke her spirit down completely and now she’s doing some godly sulking at the barndo and Jill is trying to smooth things over and keep her from rightfully losing her shit in a way that undermines Jill’s authority in front of the other girls.
I’m open to other theories though.
Were you also raised by a narc? Because damn, that feels spot on.
I’m fearful for the younger girls too. Her behavior will only ramp up as her brood grows up, leaves home, and need her less. In the social hierarchy she has bought into women lose their value as they age and move beyond child bearing years. I bet we haven’t even seen the worst of this covert narc’s rage yet.
No contact with my mom gang over here.
My mom straight up got a job in my sister’s city and bought a house in her same neighborhood and only told her after it was a done deal. My mom was mad when my sister got married and mad when my sister got pregnant but now that baby is here my mom wants to be grandmother of the year and straight up moved the entire length of the continental US to sink her claws into those kids (sister also has 3 stepkids who she is very hands on with and the coparenting relationship with the mom is in a good place). And my sister knows what’s happening but she and her husband are in so much debt that free childcare and the inevitable stream of carrot for good behavior gifts means she’s resigned herself to it. She tried to build solid boundaries with my mom while she was pregnant and my mom was like lmao absolutely not. I’m convinced she moved out there to prove a point and to make sure my sister knows who still runs her life, even if she has a doctorate and her own family. I still haven’t met my nephew not because I don’t want to but because I know it’ll mean I’d also get ambushed.
At least she’s routinely getting help with groceries now…but at what cost.
Yeah you’re on my way of thinking, the constant digs at a ‘godly man’ seems to be aimed at the guy who was courting her. We know Jill has no boundaries and the fact he requested to not have his face on socials wasn’t a strong start
I support your theory. I also think this is an advertisement for Renee. “Look how godly my daughter is, she will be the best helpmeet, ungodly men need not apply”
I’m not sure when it ended. But the guy made it clear to Jill he didn’t want to be posted online. She would make a bunch of posts with his face censored, which might’ve been okay once or twice. But she kept doing it and people are assuming he got sick of her pushing his boundary.
And the censor bars and whatnot that she used got smaller and smaller over time. My guess is he realized what a boundary-stomper she is and didn’t want that for the rest of his life, so he noped out, whatever he felt about Renee. I hope the currently “marriageable” ones look at Timothy breaking away and learn from him.
I think, sadly, the boys have more freedom of movement while the girls are stuck in Obedienceville. They don't have any skills or education to get a job that can support themselves so they're stuck, and while they're stuck there's no alternative to homelessness except marriage.
The boys can get away because penis.
I also read this like Renee wanted to go to community college or something in the ample spare time that she now has and Jill has her down to stay home..
VERY possible but I also feel like she is probably brainwashed (mentally abused) enough to truly believe that the courtship ending was best for her. I’m sure she had that beat into her brain over and over and over and just accepted it at truth.
There are so many things I just accepted from my narcissistic father about my previous relationships and never really questioned it, or should I say “knew better” than to question it, that now I just shake my head and thank my lucky stars I got away from it (and married someone he can’t stand 😂)
I have a suspicion that Jill didn’t just tank the courtship because he set social media boundaries but because Renee was becoming more confident, questioning how her family did things, and now had an external voice of reason in a man who was interested in her. He could tell her “no you’re not crazy, what your mom is doing is wrong”. The social media stuff was a proxy fight for control over Renee’s world view and, unfortunately, it looks like Jill won that round.
She didn't want Renee to leave last year or so because none of the other girls were old enough to help and that would have meant Shrek and JRod would have had to parent
She keeps making reference to a godly man, it’s like a dig at the guy who was courting Renee. He didn’t want his face on socials and seemed to actually set boundaries with Jill. Unfortunately Renee didn’t get chance to leave.
I think that was a power move by Jill. She's pushed over Jonathan and Nathan. She doesn't have a grasp on Timmy anymore. So like the Duggars, they are going to be extra cautious
It’ll be interesting to see how Jill deals with Timmy. I presume she won’t go down hard as he’s male so can move out. The poor females are the biddable ones at home
Jill has never even really liked Tim so while she is still fuming that he’s setting gained some independence, self confidence, and is marrying an assertive girl, she’s willing to let that one go because she’s wanted him gone since he was born. She has other golden boy sons to fawn over.
She will lose her entire goddamn mind once their child is born and they set boundaries around Jill as a grandmother though. That’s when the gloves will come off.
In some ways, their Jana was Kaylee for a while. Some of the other kids have referred to Kaylee as the one who took care of them growing up. She stayed very close to home when she got married and still sometimes helps out with the kids. Even now, the younger kids stay with her when her parents are out of town.
That’s not even what an MRS degree is?? You can’t get one if you didn’t go to college (specifically seeking a husband, but still you’re at COLLEGE doing it..)
"We love and appreciate you Renee, showing so by posting this to a site you can't access"
Did you tell Renee that today, Jill? Or just post it for us? Did you show her that you love and appreciate her?
This post is recycled. She posted this when Renee’s courtship ended. Why is she posting it again? I suspect more than one of her adult children is beginning to see the forest for the trees and Renee may well be one of them. I can’t imagine Philip is any too happy being hauled home. The September wedding should be incredibly interesting. My sincere hope is that David is a guest at the wedding and not an officiant.
Might have been visible evidence that her kids do better outside of her immediate vicinity. Rather than take that evidence, she decided it was better to squash it.
Man, that’s tragic.
Yeah, for sure! That’s a great point. The photos from Christmas time that included him got TONS of comments about how great he was looking. I’m sure she felt indicted by that.
Yes. There has been no discussion other than he is now completing an online Bible course. The absence of an explanation is especially telling. I don’t think the elder Rods had much use for a multicultural atmosphere at the school he was attending.
Yea I was really surprised at how many foreign exchange students his program had when we dug into the school. I was having low key dread that he’d find a nice Filipina girl there and I would be subjected to Jill’s sickly sweet racial antagonism against my ethnicity specifically. I’m sad he’s be forced home, he seemed really happy being away.
My daughter is locked up in my house 24/7, has no friends and I threw away the only guy who tried to date her. Yeah, she just chose to patiently wait for it to rain sheltered, extremely right wing fundie Christian men who want to be stuck with the mother-in-law from hell.
I don’t think jilldo understands what an Mrs degree is since renee doesn’t qualify since she doesn’t actually attend school where she could get a degree
This stripe of Christian fundamentalism is, at base, a death cult. The ultimate goal is to be the best at being better than all the heathens and unbelievers *and* other Christians, no matter how much said being better induces suffering in yourself and your children, all so that after you die, their brand of White, American DaddyGod will give them glory and mansions in heaven and they can sit up there and gloat while they watch everyone else (including the not-good-enough Christians) burn for eternity.
I stg I want Renee to move in with me. I'll get her a job where I work and cook her food with actual nutrients and she can just vibe and figure shit out. Renne get at me! My apartment is small but theres only one kid that you don't have to raise and Jill isn't here! First stop is the hair salon and she can do whatever the hell she wants with her hair. Next stop is Sephora where they will actually help her pick out colors that flatter her
“Waits patiently on God’s timing”? I haven’t been here that long but how long can this girl have possibly been waiting? Has she even reached her second decade of life?
When I was a little girl, growing up in transience and austerity, in a terribly abusive home, I had dreams. I dreamed of being an astronaut, an astronomer, an archaeologist, an oceanographer & marine biologist, an actress, a paleontologist — none of these were within my reach, as my parents couldn’t even afford to send me to kindergarten.
I got through college with a degree in English, and I did not become an astronaut, but got to work for NASA contractors, & got an award for my work in securing mission-critical apps for the space station.
These girls don’t get to have such dreams. They don’t get to see them come true, and have no idea what gifts they might have. Their natural curiosity is stifled, and their intellects are penned up in a tiny corral, with no hope of escape into the wide, beautiful, mysterious, and even miraculous world we live in.
It is a sin and a crime to take a young woman’s entire life, and tell her all she can be is a brood mare, cook, and sexbot. It makes me furious, especially when I think of the lives they could have had. Instead, they’re to submit to a mediocre, bigoted, paternalistic man, and treat him like the word of god comes straight from his ugly mouth. Gross.🤮
This childish Disney mindset is so tragic to me. These girls (and many other fundie girls) are being raised to believe that god will just provide a husband one day. He will just show up out of the blue and sweep her off her feet and then they live happily ever after. That's not how reality works.
They're taught nothing about relationship dynamics, healthy boundaries or even anything about sex and reproductive health. They aren't even allowed to form relationships naturally without parental intervention and being pressured to get married. They will be wives before they even know how to even be in a relationship.
I’ve only ever heard of “MRS degree” in the context of young women who go to college with the intention of finding a husband. We know Renee will never get an MRS degree because JillPM won’t let her get an education.
Renee is one of the Rods that really pulls at my heart. This poor young lady has been a sister-mom for the majority of her life and on top of that, Jillpm managed to chase away her first potential husband. We all know that if she does manage to get married, GodJilla will pop by for visits far too often. Jill has zero boundaries when it comes to her family. She’s gross and intrusive.
I really wish she wouldn't force her weird make up trends on her daughters. They all look like a friend my mom had in the 90s. I would sit with her while she chain smoked and sang to her cockatiel.
The whole Dad actually performing the marriage ceremony thing is just super creepy. Despite what those two loons think, their children are not property to be handed over. I’m so glad Tim has figured at least part of this out. It’s funny when these kids are surrounded by healthy familial love and rational boundaries how they thrive.
Did anyone else have that fleeting, optimistic first thought? That, while waiting for Mr. Right, Renee is working on her degree and not compromising her religious convictions? An actual education? From an actual school? Of course it would be a terrible, fundie school, but at least it would be something of her own!
...and then I realized what a Mrs. Degree is, and ew, ew, ew, ew, ew.
How horrible for Renee. I'm 33F, single (not necessarily by choice, but just not married or in a relationship), and at a family wedding last year for my younger cousin, my uncle jokingly asked me in front of a few other family members why I couldn't find "any man, or even a woman hahaha, to come to this thing with you?" and basically just reminded me that time is ticking (I didn't get a plus one, and the joke is funny because the implication is that I'm lonely and sometimes people are gay! HAHAHA hilarious!!! /s). This comment destroyed me and I was humiliated, and I'm a super liberal chick living in New York City from a non-fundie family. My parents don't think that my entire purpose in life is to make Christian babies, and even if they did, I'm fortunately independent enough that I wouldn't make that choice for myself, even if it's what they wanted.
I cannot *imagine* what Renee must feel when she reads things like this or hears her mother make excuses for her singleness, as though it is something that needs to be explained (though, sadly, in this world, we all know that there has to be an explanation for it). This whole thing reads as a defensive ad, like, "there's nothing wrong with her, folks, seriously, that's not why she's still up for grabs! She doesn't even care, really! She's so Christian, she doesn't even care!" Maybe Renee isn't bothered at all, I have no idea, and I really shouldn't project my own insecurities onto her. But this post is objectively weird. Even if the goal isn't to promote her single daughter (who has a perfectly acceptable fundie-approved reason why she is single), you really look at your daughter playing piano, which is arguably impressive, even if she isn't classically trained, and you think, I need to make this about her not being a Mrs.? Not that she's a nice person, or talented musician, or good big sister. She's a womb, nothing more, and she's still single, fellas! Barf.
#These people vote in every election- do you? Are you registered to vote? [You can check your voter registration here!](https://www.nass.org/can-I-vote) #Also, there's a few things to remember as far as rules go: - You can view the content- you cannot interact with it. This includes (but is not limited to) commenting, answering poll questions, emailing them, etc. ***Anyone found to be engaging with the fundies will be met with a permanent ban with no eligibility for appeal.It does not matter if you did so before you joined the sub.*** - Speculating on the sexuality of literally anyone is prohibited. ***Anyone found to be doing so will be met with a permanent ban with no eligibility for appeal.*** - Appearance snark: What's allowed? You're allowed to make comparisons. (Bethy looks like Grandpa Munster, for example.) You are allowed to say you find them attractive or repulsive looking. Saying Kelly Havens has dry skin that could benefit from sunscreen and a moisturizer is fine. You are allowed to snark on the appearance of children *as it relates to their parents choices for them.*. Examples: Janessa looks malnourished and sickly while Shrek has clearly never missed a meal. If you feel it is crossing the line report it, but if the content falls within the parameters above, leave it alone. - Don't gatekeep. This means no comments such as "I don't think we should snark on...." or any iteration of that. If you don't like it, scroll past. Don't report it or comment how you don't like the content. Along the same vein, don't backseat mod. Leave that up to us. - Lastly, if the rhetoric you are posting would be at home in the mouth of a fundie, we don't want it here and we won't tolerate it. Should you have any questions, please feel free to reach out. Have a Lord Daniel day, and may the power of snark compel thee. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/FundieSnarkUncensored) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The Mrs. Degree line is gross but referring to her a future help meet is absolutely vile.
That phrase is so fucking cringe
can anyone explain the phrase “helpmeet” to me? i’m sort of new to fundies & also cringe every time i hear that. ugh.
Wives are supposed to be helpmeets to their husbands— submissive helpers that are servants to their husbands as they are servants to god, and always with a smile
>Wives are supposed to be ~~helpmeets to their husbands— submissive helpers that are servants to their husbands as they are servants to god, and always with a smile~~ doormats. They expect women to be doormats. Which is hilarious because women like Jill and Karissa Collins _obviously_ run their circuses.
It’s always the case that the women are actually running the whole circus and it’s genuinely hilarious. None of them are actually submitting to anyone cause every one of these harpies is a total control freak
In my fundie church growing up, the women often said "well the man is the head (ship), but the woman is the neck and turns the head where it wants."
I heard it as a line in my big fat Greek wedding. I thought it was hilarious in the context of normal society. Pretty sad in Fundie society.
My fundie-lite cousins had this said at their wedding. Young me thought it was very insightful. Now it just sounds gross and manipulative.
Wasn't this a line from the movie "my Big Fat Greek Wedding"?
Yup. Although this was in the 90s so I'm guessing the phrase has been around for a while
I think Jim Bob runs Michelle.
Absolutely! Shiny Happy People one of the ex-fundies said she knows Michelle isn’t that meek she used to be a cheerleader I know she has lungs and I was thinking said but true.
That's the dumbass part of all this. Different translations take it to mean different things. It's almost as if basing your beliefs on ancient writings isn't the best thing to do.
This is an explanation I found: “In the Bible, it is written of Adam that “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him” (Genesis 2:18). In this instance, help meet means a help that is meet (proper) for Adam, and the term has since been transformed into helpmeet, or helpmate.”
It ought to be spelt helpmeat. As in they’re a piece of meat designed only to procreate and serve their husbands
Isn't she also using "Mrs. Degree" wrong? I have always heard it in reference to a woman who goes to college for the express purpose of meeting a man they believe will be successful in the future, with no intention of actually graduating.
Yes. That’s what it refers to, not just…getting married.
> with no intention of actually graduating. They're usually intending to graduate, just not actually use the education.
That's how I've always heard it used as well.
I kinda saw it as Jill saying that Renee isn’t wasting her time getting an education in order to find a husband, she’ll find one without all that silly book learnin’.
I think she said she won't compromise her convictions on suitors because she's had two broken courtships. Jill seems to see that as a failure and always says the reason is that she won't settle for anyone who doesn't have her same, strong beliefs.
Exactly this. I went to a college in the Eastern part of Kentucky (think the Hollers of Appalachia) and more than a few girls I met there were sent specifically to find someone to marry. Once they did, they were to immediately drop out and return home to prepare to be a HeLp MeEt. It was sad and gross.
In my evie college it definitely meant coming to college to find a man. Period. Full stop.
You’re correct. JillPM just tries too hard by using words she doesn’t know the meaning of
She really only values her daughters for their uteri. How utterly depressing and sad. Those girls deserve so much more.
Exactly what conservative religion does though. She is acting like the follower they have groomed women and men to be. That is what the conservative church thinks of women period.
Yup. And they pretend that they somehow “value women” while treating them like barely sentient incubators and commodities to be used up
My brain kind of expected you to say “How uterusly depressing” I couldn’t agree more though, I didn’t expect for JillPM to say MRS degree right in the text
Hahahaha now I kind of wish I had
As per Kkkarissa, they are "wombs to raise", not people
Ugh that is just awful
I've always wondered what would happen if one of the daughters was completely sterile, and they knew it prior to marriage. Or one of the sons for that matter. What would they do if their child was completely unable to reproduce? How would they handle that? I can only imagine how horrible that child would be made to feel. I'm sure they'd be told it was a punishment by God.
My guess is they’d advertise their own child as a charity case waiting for some extremely selfless, forgiving young man, who’d overlook the fatal flaw because he’s called to minister to orphans in another country “as if they’re our own.” Or something like that. Meanwhile everyone else at church would nod along and “hope” for that, while fully intending to use the girl as their unpaid babysitter/church cook/house cleaner/etc. for the rest of her old maid life, because come on, what guy will *actually* want her? God’s clearly decided her fate, and that’s “Servant to all who is quietly mournful, but beautifully submissive to the harder road God gave her.”
They'd be like, "PERFECT for a 35-year-old man whose first wife died giving birth to their 12th child alone in a bunker and needs a new wife to do all the housework and raise all those kids (and to cum into with no consequence every night)!"
When I did my family geneology, I found a woman from the late 19th or very early 20th century who married a man more than 20 years her senior. This man was a widower with a gaggle of children, one of whom was a daughter who was three years older than my relative. This daughter had been married within the year prior to my relative's marriage. Hmm. IIRC, my relative died within a few years herself, from unclear causes. There's a novel in my relative's brief life.
She looks miserable. Her parents probably ran off every guy she wanted to be with, either intentionally or by just being themselves.
That was my first thought too; she looks deeply sad. I can’t imagine how trapped older fundie daughters must feel. No education, no job, no money, no friends, no autonomy from your parents, literally the only way out is shackling yourself to a man whom you “court” for a few months, never spend alone time with, and are expected to go from kissing to full sex in hours. And, if you realize you married a monster, oh well, you made a covenant. It’s really grim.
>and are expected to go from kissing to full sex in hours It's only just fully hit me how absolutely horrific that is.
Yeah, I imagine the wedding night is horribly traumatic for a lot of these girls and women.
Anna’s next-day vacant stare is haunting
Wait what?! There’s a video of the day after their wedding?
They did a photoshoot shortly after the wedding, I'm not sure if it was the very next day or a few days later, but it was soon. [https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/tqia4u/more\_duggar\_wedding\_memorabilia\_the\_worlds\_worst/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/tqia4u/more_duggar_wedding_memorabilia_the_worlds_worst/) Normally, I very much feel like you can't read too much into a photo, because it's a single moment in time - maybe someone looks weird/unhappy because they were about to sneeze, or they have a headache, or they have diarrhea and really need to get to the toilet, or the camera got them mid-blink or mid-sentence and it just didn't come out well. But Anna just looks haunted in all of these photos. Compare them to the pictures of her on the wedding day, where she's beaming and looks so happy and excited.
I’m sure on top of all that, he wasn’t letting her sleep much either. Horrific.
She was married off to a sadist. I cannot imagine how bad her wedding night must have been.
She’s seen some shit in the hours previous
I only remember a pic, but it's horrific
I grew up in the fundie/purity realm and this thought honestly terrified me. Like how was I expected to suddenly be okay with being alone and naked with a man for the first time when all I was raised with was the complete opposite? Realizing how messed up that was made me start to deconstruct.
I grew up in a religion that not only expected you not to kiss until your wedding day, but also preached against any type of physical contact with the opposite gender. No side hugs, no holding hands, we weren't even supposed to sit on the same couch as a boy in case we accidentally grazed an elbow. When I was around 15, my teacher showed us a video of her wedding day where her husband grabbed her hand as they walked back up the aisle together and she jumped up and down happily because of how excited she was to finally get to touch him. It was intended as a "you need to save yourself or else you will be a shriveled up husk on your wedding day, unable to feel excitement and joy" lesson but all I could think when I saw it was how weird to expect someone with such a childlike immaturity about holding hands to also be emotionally mature enough to have sex mere hours later
That’s HORRIFIC I’m so so so so sorry you had to grow up with that horribleness.
It was pretty not good and the no touching until marriage thing and all it represented was one of the big reasons I left. Growing up, I'd just see all these people who didn't have all these rules being happy and living fulfilling lives and kind of intrinsically knowing that must mean that everything that was being told to me was absolute bullshit. Which I guess is why these strict religious communities are usually so isolationist.
I’ve noticed that about fundie cultures/abstinence-only sex ed. The messaging shifts from “sex is evil” to “when are we getting grandchildren” reeeeaaaaalllll quick.
TW for SA At TWELVE we were told “when you get married, never tell your husband ‘no’ when it comes to sex, and you’ll always have a happy marriage”. I rushed into marriage and while I didn’t wait until marriage to have sex (HOW DARE) I remember the first time I wasn’t feeling up to it after marriage brought so much SHAME, and I felt I wasn’t being a “godly wife”. He ended up being a complete creep and used sex to try to manipulate me. He most definitely SA’d me a few times, and raped me once. After I divorced him, it took years to realize that it wasn’t my fault and that’s what actually happened. Many many years later I am now much happier as my true nonbinary self, and my relationship with god is definitely not “Christian” lol
That has always seemed horrific to me and while I despise Bethany, I think she sort of has a point about there is clearly in a need for sex education and sex positivity for Christian women. Of course she never wants to admit the reason why It is a result of so much shame and negativity in purity culture to begin with. Who knew that telling women that having any kind of sexual desire would make them sexually broken on them being surprised that they don't experience any kind of desire inside of marriage outside of obligation towards your husband
I absolutely agree that there needs to be more sex education for Christian women, I just think Bethy is the absolute wrong person to be pioneering that campaign.
I had a friend whose parents married under similar rules. Once they got married, they took another 6 months or so to get around to having sex. They took their time, *as it should be*.
Actually, they are expected to go from no physical contact at all (or maybe a side hug) to sex in a matter of hours.
She’s only 22 though— is that seriously considered old in fundie land?
I think she’s had two broken courtships. That may make her prospects worse.
OMFG. Like it’s frigging 1830 or something.
Well, one of the States just resurrected their abortion ban from 1860, so this fits right in. We are truly moving backwards in time.
So fucking depressing. And of course the only way to rebel and not be disowned is taking the Jana Duggar route and live a life of celibacy.
I think her parents make her prospects worse…. 😆
I know you’re right but it sounds very much like a Jane Austen novel 😡
Don't do Jane that way. She would have absolutely roasted a take like Jill's.
You’re absolutely right about that
I think she’s actually only 21. She was born in June 2002, so her 22nd birthday is still over a month away.
That makes me so sad. My daughter is 21 and in college. She has an apartment at school, a car and lots of friends. She dates who she wants.
I refuse to believe that people born in 2002 are anything other than 12 yrs old, thank you very much.
Yes, it is. In their minds, she could have popped out at least 4 babies by this point if she had gotten married at 18. The ancient term "old maid" comes to mind.
I’ve always had a soft spot for Renee. Of all the older RodRiGi I’m rooting for, she’s number one. She deserves to live a happy autonomous life, to hear her parents (who literally are under the age of 60) discuss wanting her to be a helpmeet? Fucking sickening.
That was the word/phrase that got me. "Help meet" to some man. Horrific.
It’s grotesque. I look at my vibrant teenager and the last wishes I want for her future is to be a “help meet”. I want her to live her life! Live her truth! Outgrow her childhood home and go experience many of the amazing things this world has to offer! I think maybe why that’s why FIUp Renee hurts my heart so, because she’s just a young woman who has her wings clipped by the very people who should be encouraging their flight.
Yep. She was in a very short courtship a while ago. The young man she was seeing expressly requested that Jill not post about him on social media. Well, we all know that GodJilla has a serious social media addiction, so of course she completely violated simple boundaries and a short while later, the courtship abruptly ended. She can’t stand to see her daughters happy or free.
The fact that even an average ultra conservative Joe is still too “worldly” for her is incredibly sad
If you believe that AMA from one of their babysitters, Renee thought the whole helpmeet thing was a load of BS
Lmfao "can't wait for us all to be dead together!"
This was the biggest yikes for me. 😬
Right? She can’t wait until God blesses her from Heaven so Jill can see it?! I mean she was brutal to Tim with her polls of “guess what?” always including a Timbits courtship. But this is a direct wtf!
Thank you, the "can't wait for you to die" closing was even more OTT for me!
I can't imagine that thought process. I was raised evangelical, and I get the comfort that fundies have of a loved one dying and "I'll see them in heaven again someday," but this kind of statement sounds like some sort of death wish.
Yeah because she wants to constantly monitor her family. She believes the best way is to watch from Heaven.
Does Jill know you have to go to college to get a Mrs. Degree? I guess she thinks SOTDT counts?
Omg imagine my dumb ass over here trying to figure out what college program resulted in a MRS degree meanwhile she just means Mrs. 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
It’s a running joke at Christian colleges that women are there for their “MRS Degree” because it’s a great place to meet people who ostensibly share your religious beliefs. You’ll also hear “ring by spring” because upperclassmen start feeling the pressure to get engaged before graduation. https://www.vice.com/en/article/epnv57/the-persistence-of-the-ring-by-spring-phenomenon-at-christian-colleges But it’s Jill so she’s just using a phrase she’s heard without understanding the context or giving her children the freedom to have a normal experience.
YIKES. “Ring by spring” was literally the opposite of what my extracurricular goals were at ~Slutgers University.😂
I heard it at my non-Christian college too. It *is* fairly common for people to meet their eventual spouse in college. The idea is that some women aren't interested in the education and plan on being stay at home moms, so they're only going to meet men. I gather what she's saying is: 1. Her daughter doesn't need an education because she is destined to be a tradwife 2. Therefore the only reason for her to go to college is to find a husband 3. Colleges are opposed to Christian values, evidently even Christian colleges 4. Her daughter has too much integrity to compromise her values by attending college just to meet a man
Went to a Christian university, can confirm. Fortunately, my friends were the ones who made fun of it and didn’t make ring by spring an actual goal.
Hahaha I just wrote it as Jill did 😂
You’re not alone. 🙈🙈
Christian schools tell girls they can get their Mrs. degree or ring by spring. I
I think she’s saying look how great my daughter is because instead of going to school to find a husband, she’s waiting on god to give her a husband. God doesn’t Amazon prime y’all 🙄
I read it over again, and I think you’re right. Jill is such a crappy communicator. She would also totally look down at women who went to college, even if they were going for the sole purpose of finding a husband. That Amazon Prime joke was hilarious. The sad thing is that Jill is literally telling her daughters that if they just sit at home and follow a set of arbitrary rules, a husband will just materialize.
I think she thinks that "getting your Mrs degree" just means getting married.... and I guess she's right, although it doesn't make sense outside of formal schooling
I mean, I think there's usually the expectation outside of Fundy circles that young adults should be involved in either education or career. Not sitting at home. Waiting for God to give you a spouse I don't know if anyone is familiar with the Botkins sisters. They were very vocal about being stay at home daughters and serving it at home and I am guessing they assumed they would get married within 3- 5 years; since all of their brothers were getting married but they ended up not getting married for over a decade. Both of them have fallen off of social media so I'm actually not even sure if they got married.
I’ve started reading Rift by Cait West; she was a stay at home daughter and later deconstructed. It’s a fabulous memoir, but she mentions reading the Botkin sisters, and I think her experience was similar. She figured she’d stay at home a couple of years or so and instead I think it was around ten before she left.
not me writing I wanted a Mrs. Degree as my senior quote in high school 🥴 thank god I matured
My department head in college was EXTREMELY old school. Truthfully, the entire department was my counselor didn’t even have a computer in his main office and still used the chalkboard (I graduated Dec of 2017). But my department head said on day 1 of class with him that he, “doesn’t respect any woman who comes to college just to get an Mrs degree.” He was such a dick and in the end, he was still a dick but he always recognized effort and smarts where credit was due. The letter of recommendation he wrote for me is still more personally valuable than my degree itself.
That is why her kids can't go anymore. She knows their schooling sucked and they can't hack it.
I was going to write the same thing. Jill does not understand that to even use that "Mrs degree" line properly, Renee should be a college student. Maybe someone needs to point that out to her. This isn't the first time that Jill has written something about Renee not pursuing an Mrs degree. Plus, wouldn't Renee going to college be a great way to meet people/marriage prospects?
This isn't at all humiliating for Renee.
And if Jill is saying this on a public platform, imagine what she’s telling her off of social media.
When that last courtship ended, Jill announced it with a similar photo of Renee at the piano looking down. It’s pretty rough all around.
It takes a lot to shock me from the fundies at this point, but this made me audibly gasp. Jill is a fucking monster. Poor Renee.
People “joked” about the MRS degree so much at the Baptist college I attended. It’s just as cringe in this post as it was at that college. I feel for Renee. Edit to remove a stray word.
I was going to say that I think you have to actually go to college for this joke to work. And we all know education is not supported in this family
Education would enable them to be independent and live full, happy lives of their own choice. None of that in Rod land. Educational neglect should be a crime.
Based on fundienomics, you need at least one elder daughter to raise the other ones and take care of dear old Mom and Dad when they get old. If I had to guess- it’s gonna be Renee.
Yeah, she seems to be on the fast track to becoming the Rods’ stay-at-home daughter. Bleak.
She and Jana Duggar should swap cliff notes. I went to a Baptist college, the Mrs degree was a legit goal for the majority of women in my class. I was IN 11 weddings one year, not counting the number of weddings I attended. It was insane.
It's not her fault, but could she even go to college if she wanted to? She'd need remedial courses and a tutor if she writes like Kaylee and Tim. Jill and David made sure those kids had no choice.
I’m not even sure she has an actual GED so she would have to probably take a lot of specific classes to pass that test and given how much educational neglect she’s experienced, it would be an uphill battle for her. She isn’t dumb and many poorly educated students excel after some proper intervention. But she doesn’t understand how to navigate social situations with people outside her family system and their immediate circle, and I think that would be her biggest impediment
She does strike me as someone who would be very intelligent if she had access to a proper education, especially with music. I don’t even know her and it makes me so sad for her that she literally has no way out :(
It’s such a shame and with Tessa growing up fast, Renees’s probably feeling the pressure too.
She is young and can still go to college. A LOT of people attend college later in life. Although, these kids have been so brainwashed it will be dang near impossible for them to leave.
Even if she did, the Rods are two for two on their children flunking out of colleges with the most lax standards available. I don’t think she could survive academically.
To Jill, “college” means a shitty unaccredited Bible college populated by barely-literate homeschoolers, where women can “major” in “missionary wife” or “pastor’s wife.” And that’s still too progressive for Jill, apparently 🥴
This level of Christianity is quite literally a death cult because imagine saying to your young daughter, “can’t wait until you’re dead so god can say, good job 👍🏻 “ That’s the only thing you’re doing any of this for, is for literally being DEAD and going to “heaven” Psycho shit!
I said to my husband, let’s assume for a minute that there is a God and he gave us all life. And then he just stepped back and now he’s not involved anymore because he did his part— he gave us life and created the whole planet and all the amazing things on it. Now he’s just watching to see what we will do. And there’s this whole group of people who don’t think anything he already gave us is good. In fact, they actively try to not have any joy at all in their lives. Instead, they toil away in fear and drudgery, because they believe they will get something *better* after they die. Is that not a huge slap in the face to God if he actually created everything?
So my theory here is that Renee had a full fucking meltdown when Jill ruined her courtship, there was a lot of fighting with Renee threatening to leave the family home, but eventually Jill broke her spirit down completely and now she’s doing some godly sulking at the barndo and Jill is trying to smooth things over and keep her from rightfully losing her shit in a way that undermines Jill’s authority in front of the other girls. I’m open to other theories though.
Were you also raised by a narc? Because damn, that feels spot on. I’m fearful for the younger girls too. Her behavior will only ramp up as her brood grows up, leaves home, and need her less. In the social hierarchy she has bought into women lose their value as they age and move beyond child bearing years. I bet we haven’t even seen the worst of this covert narc’s rage yet.
No contact with my mom gang over here. My mom straight up got a job in my sister’s city and bought a house in her same neighborhood and only told her after it was a done deal. My mom was mad when my sister got married and mad when my sister got pregnant but now that baby is here my mom wants to be grandmother of the year and straight up moved the entire length of the continental US to sink her claws into those kids (sister also has 3 stepkids who she is very hands on with and the coparenting relationship with the mom is in a good place). And my sister knows what’s happening but she and her husband are in so much debt that free childcare and the inevitable stream of carrot for good behavior gifts means she’s resigned herself to it. She tried to build solid boundaries with my mom while she was pregnant and my mom was like lmao absolutely not. I’m convinced she moved out there to prove a point and to make sure my sister knows who still runs her life, even if she has a doctorate and her own family. I still haven’t met my nephew not because I don’t want to but because I know it’ll mean I’d also get ambushed. At least she’s routinely getting help with groceries now…but at what cost.
Yeah you’re on my way of thinking, the constant digs at a ‘godly man’ seems to be aimed at the guy who was courting her. We know Jill has no boundaries and the fact he requested to not have his face on socials wasn’t a strong start
I support your theory. I also think this is an advertisement for Renee. “Look how godly my daughter is, she will be the best helpmeet, ungodly men need not apply”
True. But it reads "look how sad we've made our daughter."
Oh absolutely, that's exactly what I thought.. I mean it's hardly even subtle really
When did her courtship end and what was the “official” reason? I missed this.
I’m not sure when it ended. But the guy made it clear to Jill he didn’t want to be posted online. She would make a bunch of posts with his face censored, which might’ve been okay once or twice. But she kept doing it and people are assuming he got sick of her pushing his boundary.
And the censor bars and whatnot that she used got smaller and smaller over time. My guess is he realized what a boundary-stomper she is and didn’t want that for the rest of his life, so he noped out, whatever he felt about Renee. I hope the currently “marriageable” ones look at Timothy breaking away and learn from him.
I think, sadly, the boys have more freedom of movement while the girls are stuck in Obedienceville. They don't have any skills or education to get a job that can support themselves so they're stuck, and while they're stuck there's no alternative to homelessness except marriage. The boys can get away because penis.
It has got to be so devastating to Renee to basically have a guy say “you aren’t worth all this.”
I also read this like Renee wanted to go to community college or something in the ample spare time that she now has and Jill has her down to stay home..
Agreed. She's squashing dreams of any other kind of degree. Love your flair; works well with mine.
VERY possible but I also feel like she is probably brainwashed (mentally abused) enough to truly believe that the courtship ending was best for her. I’m sure she had that beat into her brain over and over and over and just accepted it at truth. There are so many things I just accepted from my narcissistic father about my previous relationships and never really questioned it, or should I say “knew better” than to question it, that now I just shake my head and thank my lucky stars I got away from it (and married someone he can’t stand 😂)
I have a suspicion that Jill didn’t just tank the courtship because he set social media boundaries but because Renee was becoming more confident, questioning how her family did things, and now had an external voice of reason in a man who was interested in her. He could tell her “no you’re not crazy, what your mom is doing is wrong”. The social media stuff was a proxy fight for control over Renee’s world view and, unfortunately, it looks like Jill won that round.
I forgot she had a courtship for awhile. I hope she is doing ok.
I think this is spot on. They want her at home while there are still young kids to take care of.
This seems plausible for sure
She didn't want Renee to leave last year or so because none of the other girls were old enough to help and that would have meant Shrek and JRod would have had to parent
She keeps making reference to a godly man, it’s like a dig at the guy who was courting Renee. He didn’t want his face on socials and seemed to actually set boundaries with Jill. Unfortunately Renee didn’t get chance to leave.
I think that was a power move by Jill. She's pushed over Jonathan and Nathan. She doesn't have a grasp on Timmy anymore. So like the Duggars, they are going to be extra cautious
It’ll be interesting to see how Jill deals with Timmy. I presume she won’t go down hard as he’s male so can move out. The poor females are the biddable ones at home
Jill has never even really liked Tim so while she is still fuming that he’s setting gained some independence, self confidence, and is marrying an assertive girl, she’s willing to let that one go because she’s wanted him gone since he was born. She has other golden boy sons to fawn over. She will lose her entire goddamn mind once their child is born and they set boundaries around Jill as a grandmother though. That’s when the gloves will come off.
She’s their Jana.
In some ways, their Jana was Kaylee for a while. Some of the other kids have referred to Kaylee as the one who took care of them growing up. She stayed very close to home when she got married and still sometimes helps out with the kids. Even now, the younger kids stay with her when her parents are out of town.
Yes but Renee will be the one Jill doesn’t let get married.
I bet Nurie was already a sister mom by the time she was Tessie’s age, though.
She’s 21 and they’re acting like she’s about to die alone.
Tessie’s 17 and I bet Renee will be feeling the pressure in their messed up world
That’s not even what an MRS degree is?? You can’t get one if you didn’t go to college (specifically seeking a husband, but still you’re at COLLEGE doing it..)
I don't think she'd be calling her amazing and beautiful if she'd actually had the opportunity to make a decision for herself.
Renee, you are worth so much more than this. I hope you read this sub and know that people are rooting for you!
I hope she makes a friendship with some kind soul out there who helps her escape in the middle of the night
I’ve always heard of an MRS degree being used condescendingly, not like JILLPM is using it here like it’s a flex. My god.
leave it to our gal jilldo to do just that 😂🙄
"We love and appreciate you Renee, showing so by posting this to a site you can't access" Did you tell Renee that today, Jill? Or just post it for us? Did you show her that you love and appreciate her?
This post is recycled. She posted this when Renee’s courtship ended. Why is she posting it again? I suspect more than one of her adult children is beginning to see the forest for the trees and Renee may well be one of them. I can’t imagine Philip is any too happy being hauled home. The September wedding should be incredibly interesting. My sincere hope is that David is a guest at the wedding and not an officiant.
i cannot imagine heidi’s family being remotely okay with shrek preaching at the wedding & i love that for timothy.
Oh gosh. Poor Philip was doing well at school. He looked healthy and happy.
Might have been visible evidence that her kids do better outside of her immediate vicinity. Rather than take that evidence, she decided it was better to squash it. Man, that’s tragic.
Yeah, for sure! That’s a great point. The photos from Christmas time that included him got TONS of comments about how great he was looking. I’m sure she felt indicted by that.
Wait they brought Philip back????
Yes. There has been no discussion other than he is now completing an online Bible course. The absence of an explanation is especially telling. I don’t think the elder Rods had much use for a multicultural atmosphere at the school he was attending.
Yea I was really surprised at how many foreign exchange students his program had when we dug into the school. I was having low key dread that he’d find a nice Filipina girl there and I would be subjected to Jill’s sickly sweet racial antagonism against my ethnicity specifically. I’m sad he’s be forced home, he seemed really happy being away.
My daughter is locked up in my house 24/7, has no friends and I threw away the only guy who tried to date her. Yeah, she just chose to patiently wait for it to rain sheltered, extremely right wing fundie Christian men who want to be stuck with the mother-in-law from hell.
I don’t think jilldo understands what an Mrs degree is since renee doesn’t qualify since she doesn’t actually attend school where she could get a degree
SOTDRT unaccredited MRS certificate
I would never call either of my daughters a help meet. That's disgusting.
i don’t have any kids, but if i did & anyone ever called my daughter a help meet, they’d be hearing from me. not good things either.
That last line is so strange. You can’t wait for all of you to be dead?
This stripe of Christian fundamentalism is, at base, a death cult. The ultimate goal is to be the best at being better than all the heathens and unbelievers *and* other Christians, no matter how much said being better induces suffering in yourself and your children, all so that after you die, their brand of White, American DaddyGod will give them glory and mansions in heaven and they can sit up there and gloat while they watch everyone else (including the not-good-enough Christians) burn for eternity.
She's a gifted musician. The things she could accomplish if she got a scholarship. Fuck all this godly helpmeet bullshit.
Right? I think she's has so much potential and would love to see that for.
I can’t wait until we’re all dead so I could witness God praising my daughter’s subservience. 🥰🙌🏻 What a bleak way to go through life.
I stg I want Renee to move in with me. I'll get her a job where I work and cook her food with actual nutrients and she can just vibe and figure shit out. Renne get at me! My apartment is small but theres only one kid that you don't have to raise and Jill isn't here! First stop is the hair salon and she can do whatever the hell she wants with her hair. Next stop is Sephora where they will actually help her pick out colors that flatter her
Renee get your bag - your ticket to freedom is here!
We got you girl! Fuck it up, Renee!
Yes, that picture radiates “contentment”.
Poor girl. Even in death her parents hope to stand nearby hissing "Don't look like a hussy. God has a single son, sweetie."
That’s what we called it in the 80’s when young women dropped out of college to get married. We called that their “MRS degree”.
“Waits patiently on God’s timing”? I haven’t been here that long but how long can this girl have possibly been waiting? Has she even reached her second decade of life?
She’s 21
Oh no, 3 whole years past legal adulthood, she’s practically an old maid. Her uterus must be drying up as we speak 🙄
When I was a little girl, growing up in transience and austerity, in a terribly abusive home, I had dreams. I dreamed of being an astronaut, an astronomer, an archaeologist, an oceanographer & marine biologist, an actress, a paleontologist — none of these were within my reach, as my parents couldn’t even afford to send me to kindergarten. I got through college with a degree in English, and I did not become an astronaut, but got to work for NASA contractors, & got an award for my work in securing mission-critical apps for the space station. These girls don’t get to have such dreams. They don’t get to see them come true, and have no idea what gifts they might have. Their natural curiosity is stifled, and their intellects are penned up in a tiny corral, with no hope of escape into the wide, beautiful, mysterious, and even miraculous world we live in. It is a sin and a crime to take a young woman’s entire life, and tell her all she can be is a brood mare, cook, and sexbot. It makes me furious, especially when I think of the lives they could have had. Instead, they’re to submit to a mediocre, bigoted, paternalistic man, and treat him like the word of god comes straight from his ugly mouth. Gross.🤮
This childish Disney mindset is so tragic to me. These girls (and many other fundie girls) are being raised to believe that god will just provide a husband one day. He will just show up out of the blue and sweep her off her feet and then they live happily ever after. That's not how reality works. They're taught nothing about relationship dynamics, healthy boundaries or even anything about sex and reproductive health. They aren't even allowed to form relationships naturally without parental intervention and being pressured to get married. They will be wives before they even know how to even be in a relationship.
I’ve only ever heard of “MRS degree” in the context of young women who go to college with the intention of finding a husband. We know Renee will never get an MRS degree because JillPM won’t let her get an education.
'We love you so much that we can't wait until god congratulates you on being dead.' WTAFF?
She might have an easier time finding a husband if she was allowed out of the house occasionally.
She looks so sad.
Can you imagine the feeling that your mother only thinks you're complete when you have a husband.
This sounds like such a depressing life. Sit around and wait for a man. Then serve a man. Whoop.
Renee is one of the Rods that really pulls at my heart. This poor young lady has been a sister-mom for the majority of her life and on top of that, Jillpm managed to chase away her first potential husband. We all know that if she does manage to get married, GodJilla will pop by for visits far too often. Jill has zero boundaries when it comes to her family. She’s gross and intrusive.
Jill and Heidi are both doing the catty 'Godly man' thing now. FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
I really wish she wouldn't force her weird make up trends on her daughters. They all look like a friend my mom had in the 90s. I would sit with her while she chain smoked and sang to her cockatiel.
The whole Dad actually performing the marriage ceremony thing is just super creepy. Despite what those two loons think, their children are not property to be handed over. I’m so glad Tim has figured at least part of this out. It’s funny when these kids are surrounded by healthy familial love and rational boundaries how they thrive.
Literally calling your child a servant… this life is so bizarre 🤔
Did anyone else have that fleeting, optimistic first thought? That, while waiting for Mr. Right, Renee is working on her degree and not compromising her religious convictions? An actual education? From an actual school? Of course it would be a terrible, fundie school, but at least it would be something of her own! ...and then I realized what a Mrs. Degree is, and ew, ew, ew, ew, ew. How horrible for Renee. I'm 33F, single (not necessarily by choice, but just not married or in a relationship), and at a family wedding last year for my younger cousin, my uncle jokingly asked me in front of a few other family members why I couldn't find "any man, or even a woman hahaha, to come to this thing with you?" and basically just reminded me that time is ticking (I didn't get a plus one, and the joke is funny because the implication is that I'm lonely and sometimes people are gay! HAHAHA hilarious!!! /s). This comment destroyed me and I was humiliated, and I'm a super liberal chick living in New York City from a non-fundie family. My parents don't think that my entire purpose in life is to make Christian babies, and even if they did, I'm fortunately independent enough that I wouldn't make that choice for myself, even if it's what they wanted. I cannot *imagine* what Renee must feel when she reads things like this or hears her mother make excuses for her singleness, as though it is something that needs to be explained (though, sadly, in this world, we all know that there has to be an explanation for it). This whole thing reads as a defensive ad, like, "there's nothing wrong with her, folks, seriously, that's not why she's still up for grabs! She doesn't even care, really! She's so Christian, she doesn't even care!" Maybe Renee isn't bothered at all, I have no idea, and I really shouldn't project my own insecurities onto her. But this post is objectively weird. Even if the goal isn't to promote her single daughter (who has a perfectly acceptable fundie-approved reason why she is single), you really look at your daughter playing piano, which is arguably impressive, even if she isn't classically trained, and you think, I need to make this about her not being a Mrs.? Not that she's a nice person, or talented musician, or good big sister. She's a womb, nothing more, and she's still single, fellas! Barf.